Agenda packet — Monterey City Council, October 15, 2024 (part 2 of 3)

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Title: GMT20230306-213622_Recording - Balthrop Interview Transcript:
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Joe Rose - 0:00:03
Good afternoon. Today is Monday, March 6th, 2023. The time now is 1:36 PM. My name is Joe Rose. I'm an attorney and Special Counsel for the City of Monterey. I'm conducting an investigation at the request of the City of Monterey in reference to complaint received from employees at the Presidio. And in reference to Jared Balthrup, an employee of the City of Monterey, present with me on this ZOOM conference is Mr. Balthrup and his chosen representative, Ryan Herron. Is that correct?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:00:40
Yes, Sir, yes.

Joe Rose - 0:00:41
Okay. And Ryan, you're with LIUNA and Jared, you are a member of the general employees of Monterey Union. And Ryan is your chosen representative. He's here with your at your request and your consent. Is that correct? Okay, very good. And then you know that I'm recording audio and video, and you are of course free to record as well.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:01:05
Thank you.

Joe Rose - 0:01:06
All right. So let me tell you, just as a preliminary matter, you're entitled to representation because the interrogation may result in disciplinary action. I don't know if it will, will or not yet because I have to finish my investigation, then write a report. So part of that means. Are you okay with first names? I am if you are okay, Jared. If at any moment you feel like you would like to take a break and confer with Ryan, there's you can do that as you wish. Just say I'd like to take a moment and and do that. If you need to use the restroom, take a breath of fresh air, get a drink of water, All that is fine. Just let me know. Okay.

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Joe Rose - 0:01:24
I'm not conducting any sort of criminal investigation. There is no lawsuit. This is an administrative investigation only based on a complaint that the city received about you personally. I've already conducted some in interviews and so this is me interviewing you in reference to those allegations. So most important thing I guess I would say is, you know, I'm directing you to be honest and truthful. You don't have a choice but to make a statement because this is.

Joe Rose - 0:01:50
Part of your responsibilities as a city employee. And the most important thing is of course to be truthful and honest with me as we go forward, because I have to make a finding of credibility in my report. And so we don't want to take something that could be small or manageable and then magnify it by any sort of dishonesty or untruthfulness that can make things worse. And that could be an independent grounds for discipline. You understand what I mean by that.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:02:44
I have no reason to why at all.

Joe Rose - 0:02:47
Okay, So why don't we start with your just a summary of your background. I understand you're an electrician with the city of Monterrey.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:02:57
Going on 23 years here, the complaint I've ever had.

Joe Rose - 0:03:04
I'm sorry.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:03:07
About 23 years now and this is the first complaint I've ever had by anybody.

Joe Rose - 0:03:13
Well, good, good. Well, I'm glad that you don't have prior complaints. Have you always worked in this position or where did you ever work for different in a different position for the city?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:03:23
I worked for the Presidio my first thirteen years, and then I worked for Streets Department for five years and then I went back to the Presidium for the rest of the remainder.

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Joe Rose - 0:03:37
Okay. So you work for the Presidio for 13 years, then streets for five years, and then back to this position since then?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:03:44
Yes.

Joe Rose - 0:03:45
Sir, so now 18, That's about another five years ago.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:03:50
Yeah, when I went to streets I went to all voltage high voltage electrician and then they they took cut my pain from me back and cut my job to to my old one. So you are.

Joe Rose - 0:04:07
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Go ahead.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:04:09
I'm sorry. They said they didn't need the position anymore at Streets because they were going to put in LED street lighting so there wouldn't be any maintenance necessary. So they cut my job after five years and cut my pay $1000 a month and put me back to the city of.

Joe Rose - 0:04:25
OK, so you were the kind of electrician in streets that worked on signal lights and power poles rather than building electron electrician?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:04:35
Yeah, one of the streets I set. Street light bulbs, trap signals by the home, high voltage and line work, stuff like that.

Joe Rose - 0:04:44
Got it. Now, the job. Your first thirteen years, you say you worked for the Presidio. Do you mean? I'm sorry?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:04:54
As an electrician, the job I'm doing now for it.

Joe Rose - 0:04:58
Okay. So you were a city employee as an electrician assigned to the Presidio.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:05:04
When I first started in 2000, correct June 12th.

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Joe Rose - 0:05:09
Now that was your date of hire, June 12th, 2000.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:05:14
Correct.

Joe Rose - 0:05:15
Got it, Okay. And then are you, are you a licensed electrician or are you like a journeyman electrician? What's your background for that?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:05:24
I'm a 20 year electrical contractor licensed electrician. I have my own business as well.

Joe Rose - 0:05:34
Okay. Now, before we began, before I turn on the recorder, we talked for about 30 seconds or a minute and I just kind of gave you a preview. And I'll just repeat what I said. We received it. By we, I mean the the city, not me, received a complaint relating to an episode that occurred allegedly. In an in a in a Subway sandwich shop in sometime around December of 2022 at the Presidio. And then there was some other complaints received from security officers that work at the Presidio. So the the main thrust of what I'm going to ask you about is this instance that's alleged to have occurred at the Subway. But I'm also going to ask you about some of these other things too, but as I was, as I was. As I was explaining that to you, you mentioned that you had something important to tell me and I asked you to say that turned on the recorder. So go ahead.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:06:37
I feel that this will be important to you and your investigation. You as well to know that I've been being harassed by a security guard at Presidio. His name is Shay Brown. I filed A harassment charge on him with the government for harassing me. And he was, I believe he was there at the subway incident and after the subway incident he's that's when he started being rude to me every time I went to the guard gate. And so there was three instances where he was rude and abusing his authority and and treating me bad which I reported and he was harassing me. And as of last Thursday he when I drove by him he yelled something at me again. And that's when I said enough's enough and I went and filed a plan on him. So I'm not sure why I mean.

Joe Rose - 0:07:37
That complaint.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:07:38
Is being investigated right now by the Army? Yeah. So there's. And we also have another city employee right now, Steve Lang, that's willing to testify that that guy's been rude, obnoxious AR 149
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and harassing to him as well. And that's that. They have that information. I had a witness with me. When we went through the guard gate, I went through the contractor. His name is Chuck Howard Electric and he was in the pastor seat when the guy came, just verbally abused me and attacked me for no reason. And that's the Jay Brown guy. So I didn't know who did this or what, but I filed that on him because he's been harassing me every time I go to the gate since December. And I think he was there. I can't remember 100% sure, but there's two guards getting sandwiches at Subway. And I remember the instant because the girl was very disrespectful to me at Subway at that time, and they were there peeing for their sandwiches. And I think he was there. So this he might be trying to, you know, he might like that girl or something and she's trying to get me in trouble, but.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:08:23
I've never been disrespectful to to anybody there or any guard at any time, but he has been harassing me and I have a formal complaint with with the army now. I met actually with them today at 12:00 o'clock at 11:00 o'clock with my box. Chris Dwight about it. So I have a witness and I have another city employee that. That guy that same guard that filed this has been harassing him since COVID for two years already he's been harassing him and the head of security guys for the army said that he's very outspoken and outward He he said that already today to me that that guy has a problem with with with the be verbal and loud and abusive so I have another city player that's will unsatisfy on my behalf how that guy treat was.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:09:17
Treating the city employees Steve Lang.

Joe Rose - 0:09:51
Who's the other city employee who was willing to testify on your behalf? Jerod Balthrop - 0:09:56
Steve Lang, he's a senior HVAC technician. He's been here for 22 years and his phone number is 760-2040, he said. I told him that that guy's been harassed to me and I explained to him who it was. He said that guy's harassed to me, too. He says it's COVID. Even harassing him. He only started harassing me since it seems like December on the subway thing. I think he was there or he likes that girl or something. You didn't have an issue before? No, no, he was really nice before then. I'm nice to all the guards. I bring them Donuts sometimes. When I bring Donuts to the shop, I always stop and say you guys won't want on my way again. I don't have problems with any any of them.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:10:17
But I think he's got something going with his girl. He likes her or he's seeing her or something that works there and and he's going to get me back or something because I I just explained to her why I walked in the back subway. It's because I saw a power fluctuation in the lights.

I'm an electrician and it was storming and raining that day, so I thought the power was AR 150
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dropping in and out to the whole building, you know, So they had the back door open, the subway.

Joe Rose - 0:11:10
OK, wait. Back up again. So tell me. So tell me about you. You you were you thought the power was going out. I missed that one part.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:11:17
OK, so I wanted to let you know about what's going on with that guy right now. I do have a harassing thing with him going on right now. Harassment case against that.

Joe Rose - 0:11:27
That's Jay, OK.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:11:32
And you filed that?
Joe Rose - 0:11:33
Harassment complaint in March of 20 this month or did you file it in February? Jerod Balthrop - 0:11:40
I filed it on Thursday because Thursday morning he yelled profanity at me as I was passing.

So that was the 3rd into that.

Joe Rose - 0:11:47
OK, so you filed the harassment complaint on Thursday.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:11:51
Yeah, with with the with his captains. And then they told me at the EOC, the government side that I had to make appointment for Friday at 10 and I went Friday at 10 and filed a formal complaint against them with the government.

Joe Rose - 0:12:08
Thursday at on the 2nd of March.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:12:11
And Friday? Yeah, Thursday and Friday. I told the captains on Thursday and I filed the formal paper with the Army on Friday at 10th.

Joe Rose - 0:12:22
And that was because he yelled at he yelled an expletive at you as you were driving by.

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Jerod Balthrop - 0:12:27
Thursday morning, yeah, that was the 3rd incense incense and that was.

Joe Rose - 0:12:34
Jay Brown.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:12:35
Yeah. He's been harassing me since December every time I go through there.

Joe Rose - 0:12:43
Was this what time of day was it that Jay Brown yelled the expletive at you? Jerod Balthrop - 0:12:47
It was first thing in the morning at 7:35.

Joe Rose - 0:12:51
735.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:12:54
He didn't my ID, the guy in front of him did because they checked two cars at the time. So the guy in front of him checked my ID and I was in my little car. He didn't know. Because it used to me being in my truck, but I was driving and he looked at me and when he recognized it was me, I was driving real slow. And when I got past them, that's when he yelled the profanity at me. I had my window down. I couldn't make it out exactly, but it was something rude.

Joe Rose - 0:13:24
How do you know it was rude or profane if you couldn't hear it? Jerod Balthrop - 0:13:28
Well, it sounded like like, fuck you or I'm going to get you or you guys. Something like that.

But it was kind of, I was like passing him and he was talking from the side, you know, I was going up the hill away from him. He owned something. I don't know, but I can't tell exactly what he owned. But he yelled something at me as I was passing.

Joe Rose - 0:13:53
Did you have your windows rolled up or down when he yelled at it? Jerod Balthrop - 0:13:57
It was down because I had just given the guy the ID, the guy in front of him.

Joe Rose - 0:14:02
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How far away was Jay Brown when he yelled.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:14:06
At you I was going up the hill. I just when he recognized me, he saw my face in the car because he didn't recognize the car. But then he like he recognized me. I saw him and I was passing them slowly going up the hill and I was probably about 10 feet up. And then I heard, I heard, I heard him yelling like when I as I was passing them five feet away, 10 feet, I heard him yell something. There was some profanity, but it was muffled and he wasn't aimed at me so I couldn't quite make it out. But my hearing is not really good. I have a lot of ringing in my ears.

Joe Rose - 0:14:42
So you were driving up the hill as you were passing J. Brown.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:14:47
After he.

Joe Rose - 0:14:49
I'm sorry. Go ahead.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:14:50
I said after he noticed it was me, I was, I was driving up the hill after he noticed it was me and I passed them. That's when he yelled.

Joe Rose - 0:15:01
But you didn't hear what it was. But you think it was either fuck you or I'm going to get you or.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:15:06
Something like that, yeah, it was. It was something like I couldn't quite make it out. Like I said, because I was up to going away from him and his projectory was to the side kind of not at me and my, you know, my right hearing is not the the mess anyway. But he did yell something at me and I know it was that me.

Joe Rose - 0:15:27
And was that on Thursday?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:15:29
Yeah, that was on Thursday. That's why I went to that. I said enough's enough, man. I don't want to do this all time. And then, so that's when I found Plano. He said that was the third time. That was the third time. Yeah, the second time. He almost got physical with me for no reason either. And I had my witness in the car with me.

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Joe Rose - 0:15:50
OK, when did he get physical with you? Almost.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:15:53
He almost did the other security that that was sometime in February.

Joe Rose - 0:16:01
2023 yeah, Okay. And tell me about how did that what happened there? Jerod Balthrop - 0:16:08
I I I pulled up to the city of gardening to get a contractor to come with the job like we do at times have to do that, but I haven't did it in a couple years because I had my knee operation and I came back. I haven't had to do that bring a contractor in a couple years. But the last time that we did bring people in, I was able to pick them up at the Presidio gate and as long as they had a valid driver's license and they were in the car with me, with my deepest car, I could sponsor them and they let them come in with me. That's the way it worked when I when I when I left. But they have a new procedure now that. Even though the contractor has to fill out a big old page report thing on the computer before they let him in. But I didn't know that. So I I have the contractor in the truck with me. We pulled around to come into the base. I rolled my window down and said hey, how you doing? It comes to the one that he else starts yelling at me. I'm tired of you see the employees. I'm tired of you guys always thinking you can get away with anything you want because you know better. And I told him I'm sorry Sir. I don't know.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:16:53
I don't know what you're talking about. He said, you know better. You know, you need to pass for him. You have to fill it out. I said, I said I'm sorry. I don't know that I didn't know that, but I'm more than willing to go do it right now. And and then he was just getting all irate. I said you need to chill here because he was like getting crazy and like, it's a gun, you know? And I and I'm like, you need to chill, you know, chill out here. In a minute here, I didn't know, you know?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:17:23
You knew you were lying. You knew and you know all about the process and this and that.

You're always trying to get away with something. He was yelling at me and I'm like whatever.

And then and then he was you need to chill like that. And I I said, bro, you chill. You're getting crazy here. And then the guy had with me was like, what the heck's going on, you know? And and then I said, I said I'm getting a pass. So I just, I drove around and then.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:17:51
His other guard friend witnessed the whole thing and he came up and he was like, hey calm down telling him and he believed him and let him go on break after that he's like what are AR 154
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you doing telling him? But he went off on us for no reason and that was the 2nd incident and it was it was pretty heated and it was it was like all him coming out at us. I mean I didn't know you know, that needed that or I would have just went and did it then. But anyway, that was the second time. And and I told him that exactly what happened and I had a witness with me and then the first time was I had my headlights on my truck on and I have a lift the truck, right. So they always say turn your headlights off when you're coming to the guard gate. Well, generally that's for like when it's real early in the morning and it's dark.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:18:48
You know, it blinds them. But but this time of year, it's like it was light already. It was daylight already when I was coming up the hill, you know, And my, my truck lights come on automatically. I have to manually turn them off because it's a new truck, you know, I didn't know they're on. Right. So I'm coming up the hill and it's him again. This is the first incident this, this was that this was in December, like.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:19:13
About a week after the subway incident with the girl there. OK And it's the first time I've seen him since that incident. And then then he starts me and so actually comes up and he goes, he said you need to turn off your headlights. And I I said early on and he said, yeah, they're on. He was, I'm tired of you coming up here every time you come up and you find us.

And you got the brightest lights, a mini truck on the studio. You need to turn these off. You come up here.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:19:42
And I was like, hey, I'm sorry. So they come on automatically. I'll make sure they're off and on, you know? And I didn't realize what's going on, but I couldn't tell they were on because it was like, I don't know if they're on. Yeah, because it was like they have a, a photo sensor turns on and off. I have. I just keep an automatic mode, you know? So anyway, that's when I I thought something was weird after that, right Then when he did that. Because before that we didn't have no problems. I didn't have problems in other parts. Wait.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:20:10
You know, hey, how you doing? And then I go through so like my Idi mean there's not much more to do. When you pull up, you show your ID and they can say hi and you go through, you know, there's really no reason to talk to them or be on a business basis with someone.

You're just coming to work, right? You show your ID, you go through. And anyways I thought something was weird and funny at that time and I couldn't remember but.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:20:40
There was two guys that had Subway 2 guards paying for their sandwiches. You were able to leave when the when the incident with the young girl happened. OK, so I think he was one of them. He was there I think because ever since after that he's been, he's been harassing me ever since, right? That makes sense right? Like he likes the girls and I don't know. So AR 155
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anyways.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:21:11
That was the first incident was the headlight thing and he started yelling at me and and treating me like crap for no reason. So those are the three instances since the subway thing and that's why I filed the complaint against him on Thursday. Because he had yelled. He yelled at me on Thursday morning. I'm passing him and he had been harassed to me.

Joe Rose - 0:22:02
When was the when was this issue with the headlights that you didn't realize they were on and it wasn't quite It was.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:22:10
I think that was like end of December. It was probably a couple weeks. I might have been the first first part of January, something like that. I mean it wasn't that for after the the subway thing and I think the subway thing was in December if I remember at some time. But I think he was there. How do?
Joe Rose - 0:22:31
You think the subway thing happened?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:22:34
I think it happened in December sometime. I remember because the girl was my friend and all the girls that work there are my friends. Like literally. I bought that girl sushi lunch four times her and all the other girls that work there. I gave them $20 instant by himself, sushi lunches, Rebecca, the other girl that works there. I gave her 60 bucks for buy herself a birthday present. Her last birthday, she was going on a trip to Mexico. The girl that went out was pregnant. I gave her $100 for a baby to buy her baby a baby present. Why would I be mean? You know what I mean. Why would I be disrespectful to him when I'm so nice to him all the time? And I always tip them good and stuff. You know, I don't understand, but.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:22:59
We had a misunderstanding that subway day. It was storming OK outside. I'm an electrician.

I saw the lights flicker look like inside a subway through the door that was wide open, which was the back door. I was going to subway anyway because another couple city employees were going to go over there for break time and it was all my break time this happened.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:23:27
So when I saw the flickering I said, well I better go in here and see if it, because if it flickers three times, then the cutouts open the high voltage and the building will be dead. They don't have to get a generator, call the army and do a bunch of stuff, you know, so it looks like they flickered. So I wanted to go in there and and monitor and see if they're going to flicker a couple more times and drop out or not so and the door is open already. So, So I parked my AR 156
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vehicle, I walked over into the back, the door was open. I walked in and I started looking at the lights. And then she's finishing up with the two guard guys and she looks over and she goes, hey, you can't go through here. And I said, I said I'm, I'm checking the lights, man. And she says that, well, ISIL said nobody can go through her no more. And I.

Joe Rose - 0:24:47
Said.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:24:48
ISIL. Isil's the head of of She runs the Eight Fees, which is the management, the Army store, the the PX store where the army buys stuff. They don't own the building, The Army owns the building. Okay 8 Fees rents out. They sublease to Subway and all these little places inside Okay. So they rent from ISIL. She's like their landlord, I guess per se. And the army is Isil's landlord. She pays the the army for the whole building. But we working for the army on army property have to maintain that as an Army building. Does that make sense? Because the army owns it, right? Well, I'm not sure if the young girl that worked this subway.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:25:18
Quite understood that what we take care of there at the Army base and what we don't and what we do for them. You see she, she and I and I told her, I said I got to check the lights because of the power and I'm, you know, I explained to her the process. I said that I said, well I sold, I sold. We don't work for ISIL. We work for the army and the army owns this building and the army.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:25:47
Says that we could come and repair things anywhere that needs repairing. When it needs repairing, like we go in anywhere. We go in the girls restrooms and fix their lights, their outlets. We go into the mess halls and fix stuff and we go everywhere in the HVAC rooms and little Mickey closets, You know, there's nowhere that we don't go to fix something in that place. So I was trying to. I was explaining that to her, basically.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:26:15
And she was giving an attitude about it. And she's like, well, I so said, you can't come in here no more, through here no more. And I don't go through there ever. I'm like, why would she say that? You know, that didn't make any sense. I don't go. I was like.

Joe Rose - 0:26:59
Is the girl that you're friends.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:27:01
With Yeah, I thought we were friends. I thought I was friends with all of them that worked there. I mean, we've been going.

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Joe Rose - 0:27:06
There for two years. Her name.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:27:10
Her name's Leslie.

Joe Rose - 0:27:12
So Leslie, who you consider a friend, was copying it with you about? Jerod Balthrop - 0:27:17
Out of the blue because she's saying I walked through there and I didn't even walk through there yet. I just have went in there to check the lights from the back at the back. I said well why do you? I said well first of all why do you leave? Why are you leaving the back door by looking if you don't want anybody to come here? Yeah, that's just making sense, you know what I mean? And it's like, but I came in here to check the lights because I thought I saw flicker. It was it's raining, storming outside. OK, picture that in your mind. It's raining, it's storming, right. So I just went in there to check them with courtesy and see what I needed to prepare for, for the building to if I need to get a generator or not, right? Jerod Balthrop - 0:27:36
So she's caught like an attitude right away. And she says, I still says you can't pee in here, you can't walk through her no more. And I don't normally walk through there ever. And I'm, I think that was the first time I've ever walked through there. You know, maybe some other guys have her, somebody else, but I still doesn't even work at that place. She's in port or she she wouldn't even know. So maybe she got in trouble for somebody she had walked through there or, you know, I don't know, but.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:28:00
Anyway, she like, took it out on me and I was like, I can come in here if I need to and work on anything that is broken and inspect things that I need to. I wasn't even by the food. The food is over where she was. I'm over here where the dishes are. I wasn't even, like near the food at all, not even 15 feet of the food. And I just went in there to check the lights and she says you're not here to check the lights.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:28:29
Like that. And I I said, yeah, I am. I'm checking the lights. So then I tried to explain to her, hey, you know what we do here? We fix lights. We fix power. We we have to go and go in anywhere if the time needs it. You know, we're building in this. The army owns this building.

ISIL doesn't own this building. We we work for the army. So that's why I came in here.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:28:59
And that guy, those guards were standing there and and then they had got their stamps took off after that. So maybe he thought like I was being an asshole to her, but I wasn't. I was just AR 158
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explaining to her the process of building me, this department and our contract with the army, how we maintain the buildings and what we need to do sometimes, that's all. You know, and I honestly considered her a friend. I literally bought her a lunch 3-4 different times. Sushi. There was sushi place that I gave her or each girl there 20 bucks. That it sushi today. Oh really? Thanks. I mean, I tip her. I get a sandwich that's for 5 bucks every day for tip. Just because the soldiers never tip them. They have like a dollar in the doodle jar.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:29:50
Why? Why would I be ruder harassing him to someone that had to do that? I mean, it makes no sense. So I think the guard guy was there, the one, and that's why he was starting to take it out on me the whole time. After that incident, he started harassing me because I think he likes her. That's his girlfriend or I don't know, whatever. So that's, that's, I like to tell you. I mean, that's what happened.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:30:18
I mean, really, I don't know. I mean.

Joe Rose - 0:30:52
OK, so let me ask you, I want to show you the Presidio area on a map. I'm going to share my screen with you if you could help me. Jared, tell me. Can you see the map? Yeah, this map here, Google map.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:31:10
Yeah.

Joe Rose - 0:31:10
OK, so I think this is the Presidio of Monterey. Let's see. I can find it. I just had it. Here we go.

So does this, can you tell this is, is this the Presidio? Jerod Balthrop - 0:31:31
Yeah.

Joe Rose - 0:31:32
OK, which way do we go to? Where's the main gate? This gate with the hill that you described?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:31:39
Private bully? Oh is.

Joe Rose - 0:31:44
So would it be? You see my cursor?
AR 159
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Jerod Balthrop - 0:31:48
Yeah. Go right. Oh, right here. Probably bully. Oh, right here. Bully oh gate. Keep going to the right and right there. Oh, go back, go back right there.

Joe Rose - 0:31:58
OK, this.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:32:00
Is all three times that he asked me were were were there was was there at the bully oh gate that's that's the entrance that they force all of us to go through to come to work.

Joe Rose - 0:32:16
This must not be it, I guess.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:32:19
This it's down more, It's down more from yeah, it's right off the lighthouse.

Joe Rose - 0:32:24
It's right in here.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:32:25
It that's it. That's the guard shack right here. These little shacks is where he was.

Joe Rose - 0:32:30
Okay. So when you come in, tell me what your process is, Jared, when you come to work and check in on the on the Presidio.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:32:38
Every day everybody has to do the same thing and come up private bully. Oh, right here. And then the the guards are at these little shacks right in the middle of the street and there's two guards and they checked two cars at a time.

Joe Rose - 0:32:51
Right here.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:32:52
Yeah, and that's where he was all three times and he were asked me.

Joe Rose - 0:32:56
And this is a hill.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:32:57
AR 160
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Yeah, coming up the hill, and that's why I was saying coming.

Joe Rose - 0:33:00
From Lighthouse.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:33:02
Yeah, which I always coming off the lighthouse and right when I was passing his little shack going up the hill, that's when he yelled at me. But he was aiming like to the side kind of to end down. I was going up the hill and I had already passed them, so that's why I really understand exactly what it said, but it sounded like something, you know? Joe Rose - 0:33:25
Was February 2023 the first time, I'm sorry, in December or January, December of 22 or January of 23, was that the first time you had been asked about? Your headlights on your truck in December of 22 or January of 23 that you had not previously ever been asked about your headlights being turned off on the truck.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:33:59
By.

Joe Rose - 0:33:59
The guards.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:34:01
No.

Joe Rose - 0:34:03
No.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:34:05
No.

Joe Rose - 0:34:06
Okay. So the first time you ever heard any guard asked you to please turn off your headlights on your lifted truck when approaching the guard gate was in December of 22 or February of 23, when it was already light daylight as you were arriving.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:34:23
That time. But there was another time. They had asked you to turn the lights off. That's what I'm asking you.

Joe Rose - 0:34:29
AR 161
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That's what I'm asking you. It was a long.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:34:31
Time ago, and it wasn't by him.

Joe Rose - 0:34:33
Okay when prior occasion.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:34:36
It was like it was like it had been like 6 and seven months to four or five months and it was another guy but it again that's when I was I was if they were coming on automatically and and that's when I started turning them off and I had forgotten because it turned daylight.

You know when it was dark. I remembered after the guy mentioned it to me was hey can you turn off your lights for us as you come the kind of bright you have no problem. So every time I'd come in the morning, I'd turn them off after that, but I can see him go off because it was dark, you know, I had forgot when the second time when he yelled, he yelled at me.

And it wasn't him anyway, that that it was another guy that had told me, but that's why I forgot, because it was daylight already for like a month.

Joe Rose - 0:35:28
5-6 or seven months before December of 22 or January of 23. So we're talking around, could have been April, May or June.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:35:39
Yeah, it was dark early. It was dark early. It was like the beginning of winter. It just started, so probably four months ago, five months.

Joe Rose - 0:35:49
Oh, 5-6 or seven months ago from now or from when you were asked in December? Jerod Balthrop - 0:35:55
Or January. I think from now when I first started when winter first started and it was dark early.

Joe Rose - 0:36:04
Was that like November, October, November?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:36:08
Yeah, it was like October or September, end of September, something like that. But it wasn't this guard. It was another guy. He asked me politely and I told him, hey, I'm sorry. Come on, I get it, you know, my truck's lifted up. I'll make sure they're off from now on. So I have to every single morning I would have to physically turn the auto off on my lights, which I was AR 162
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doing, but it turned daylight, right? And it was daylight. So that one instance when he he started screaming at me here in February, it had already been daylight for like an hour, you know, So I don't know why the the lights are blind and if it started daylight, right. So that's when they just started attacking me, yelling at me. What's? Joe Rose - 0:36:53
Your What's your normal start time, Jared, when you get to work? Jerod Balthrop - 0:36:58
At 7:30 AM.

Joe Rose - 0:37:01
And do you normally take a one hour lunch, half hour lunch or something else? Jerod Balthrop - 0:37:06
1/2 hour lunch.

Joe Rose - 0:37:09
And do you then what time is quitting time like 3330, something like? Jerod Balthrop - 0:37:14
Four o'clock 4.

Joe Rose - 0:37:15
O'clock, yeah.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:37:17
7:30 to 4:00.

Joe Rose - 0:37:19
Do you have to check out on your way out or only on your way in? Jerod Balthrop - 0:37:23
Only on your way in, like checking.

Joe Rose - 0:37:26
And what is the expectation, as you understand it, for checking in and out at the guard shack? What do you have to supply, if anything, to the guards when you go in? Jerod Balthrop - 0:37:35
Just here for us, we have a contractor demons card that puts us in their biometric system and all they do is scan it. That's all. I mean, we shouldn't even have to talk to them. All we AR 163
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we have to do is show them the card. And they scan it and we go through.

Joe Rose - 0:37:53
And what did you call it? A contractor what?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:37:56
It's called the DD Bids card, a contractor card.

Joe Rose - 0:38:01
I apologize guys. The audio I'm getting a little bit of like an echo, it's not your fault, but because of that some of. Yeah, OK, so it's called a contractor, D Vibs is that we sent.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:38:13
D bid, D bids.

Joe Rose - 0:38:16
D.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:38:16
Bids. Yeah, D bids.

Joe Rose - 0:38:19
OK. And is there some QR code or bar code or something on there that's scannable? Jerod Balthrop - 0:38:24
It has both, yeah. So did you show on the? They scan it and if it pulls up and everything's OK, they can go ahead. But that's all the interaction you're supposed to have with them.

Joe Rose - 0:38:36
OK, so they so the the usual process when you arrive as you pull out your D bids card, they scan it and then that.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:38:46
The window, I keep it right. I put it out the window for him so it's ready that it's going to be.

Yes, Sir. Go ahead.

Joe Rose - 0:38:52
OK. And is there a picture on that card too?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:38:56
Yes, there is.

AR 164
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Joe Rose - 0:38:57
OK, so they can compare your face to the picture on the card.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:39:00
And when they your picture comes up on their screen, the scanner, your picture comes out to make sure it's you.

Joe Rose - 0:39:08
I see. OK, now you mentioned too that. What? Is there ever been an instance where you come to the guard shack and you don't have your D bids card and you've asked to get through anyway?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:39:22
No, never. They won't let you through.

Joe Rose - 0:39:27
They won't let you through without it.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:39:30
No, that's some made-up stuff now sounds like.

Joe Rose - 0:39:40
Just cause I'm asking questions, don't, don't, don't take that to mean anything. I'm just trying to understand the process. So OK, so then and then on that one instance you mentioned which was the 2nd instance you believe was sometimes in February of 23, you pulled up the Presidio guard gate to get a contractor and so you there, you were there with someone else.

You said there was a new procedure.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:40:12
Let's.

Joe Rose - 0:40:13
Talk about, let's talk about that. So the first question I have is prior to prior to the February of 23, prior to the new procedure. So now I'm talking about the old procedure, whatever that was. Could you bring someone on to the Presidio, you yourself as it with a D bids card? Jerod Balthrop - 0:40:34
As long as I had my D bids card and I was in the city vehicle. I was a sponsor and authorized to reach someone inside my vehicle with me if they had a current driver's license and they would scan their driver's license and look at it and make sure the picture was them and they say okay, go ahead and they had to stay with me. I'm responsible for them the whole time and I'm responsible to take them out of the base that that was a procedure for like 6 years.

AR 165
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And then I went out on my knee and then I came back. And I haven't had to have a bring a contractor in in like 2 years. And then that's when he started yelling at me, telling me, you know, the procedure and no human shit and all this and he started going off on me. I'm tired of the city employees thinking you give away whatever you want and all this crazy shit.

Joe Rose - 0:41:29
Okay. So prior to the event in February of 23. You were out with a knee injury and you had not brought a contractor in using that process for about two years, that I hear that correctly.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:41:42
2 1/2 years.

Joe Rose - 0:41:44
2 1/2 years.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:41:45
OK, the old process that I was familiar with was not the current standard procedure, but I didn't know that and that's so I wouldn't have, you know, I wouldn't have tried to do without getting him in the past and. It's not like it's a big deal. All I did was make a left turn to the guard gate and go get him the pass. It took 5 minutes. So I mean the guy was like getting crazy, yelling at me and like getting all irate and stuff.

Joe Rose - 0:42:19
OK, so did you do? Are you familiar with the term AIE card? AIE No. Don't know what an AIE card is. Are you familiar with the car? Okay. So when was your knee? When were you out with your knee injury or surgery, whatever it was?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:42:40
Shoot, let me think on that one. I want to say in 20 and and a little partial of 21. I came back in 21.

Joe Rose - 0:42:55
So you were out all of 2020 and part of 2021?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:42:59
Yeah. I think it came back like the middle of 2021 or something like.

Joe Rose - 0:43:06
That.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:43:07
Yeah, I had to have, and this is tear on both sides of the knee. I had to have surgery.

AR 166
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Joe Rose - 0:43:14
You remember when approximately in 2020, you went out.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:43:21
I think it was February, February 26th, I want to say. 99.

Joe Rose - 0:43:34
Oh, OK, so you were out for a long time, 99 and all the way through, and then you came back. You were gone for like, what, almost 2 1/2 years? Jerod Balthrop - 0:43:41
No, I was gone for a year and a half.

Joe Rose - 0:43:44
Oh, OK. February of nine and if you were mid 2021 that would be like? Jerod Balthrop - 0:43:51
That came back to mid 21, so a year and a half back from that was probably. Would that be a couple months in the 9920 Twenty? Yeah.

Joe Rose - 0:44:02
I think you mean 2019.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:44:06
Yeah, I'm sorry, 2019.

Joe Rose - 0:44:10
February of 2019, end of 2019, ten months, then 2020 is 12 months. That's 22 months. And then middle of 21 would be another six months. That's 28 months.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:44:23
Yeah. No, that was too long, so. I want to say.

Joe Rose - 0:44:27
February of 9/20/19. Here's a way of thinking about it to refresh your memory. COVID hit in February, March of 2020. Were you out before COVID or after? Jerod Balthrop - 0:44:40
I was out before COVID a few months beforehand, yeah.

Joe Rose - 0:44:43
AR 167
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OK, so it could have been late 20-19 maybe?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:44:46
Yeah. Actually, yeah, I could. I've had two different surveys. I think the first one was February.

Joe Rose - 0:44:52
OK.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:44:52
Second one, I think it was late. Because I had been out already for like I think three or four months when COVID hit already.

Joe Rose - 0:45:03
Okay. All right. So you were out during that period of time and you suspect or you don't or do you know for sure that there was a change in the procedure and you weren't aware of? Jerod Balthrop - 0:45:15
It I found out there was after he yelled at me and told me the fire and said that I was just trying to get away with stuff and I know better. And then I'm a liar. Or all this and that.

When I went into the office, then I found out there's a new.

Joe Rose - 0:45:31
Procedure. What office did you go to to find that out? Your office at this department of it's.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:45:37
Right across from that guard gate, it's a big guard house, a building.

Joe Rose - 0:45:43
I saw that on the map, Okay, you go in there and that's what do you do there you go, talk to somebody.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:45:47
About to fill out the computer form with all the person's information and then the.

Joe Rose - 0:45:53
Person you're bringing in.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:45:54
Yes, yes, that's what changed. I didn't know that you.

Joe Rose - 0:45:58
AR 168
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Did not know that. OK, so you did. And in this case, when he got aggressive with you, you brought your person into that bigger guard shack and filled out the paperwork.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:46:11
Yes. And then the other guard relieved him because he was getting too crazy and he told me to take a break and when we came back to get in the Presidio, that guy was with. And went and sat down somewhere and went to shack in the break room or something. The other guard was trying to calm him down because he was going crazy on us for no, no reason.

Joe Rose - 0:46:33
Now was the other guard that tried to calm him down one of the guards that was at the subway.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:46:39
You know what? I'm not sure. I don't think so, but I'm not sure. I wasn't really even hardly paying attention to the guard guys because she was talking to me and I was. Explaining to her but you know, like I said maybe he likes her he he, you know thought because I I.

Joe Rose - 0:47:00
I am totally familiar with your hypothesis that this is motivated by his desire for romantic interest in in Leslie. I got that part. So when you when you went back to the guard gate in February of 2023. After having completed the paperwork, did you do, did you have any other interactions with any of the guards, or did the person who was with you have any interactions with the guards at that point? Did you go back to that guard gate, the little one? Jerod Balthrop - 0:47:35
Yeah, you have to to get on.

Joe Rose - 0:47:38
Were there any interactions? Anything happened? What you do? Did, did you show them the work or?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:47:43
I showed them the card and. And and and Chuck had a pass. We both showed him and he said have a good day. That was it was this.

Joe Rose - 0:47:55
Jay Brown Or was this the other guard?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:47:57
The other guard, the other guard, he took Jay Brown off there after he went crazy on us. He made him go take a break, Calm down.

AR 169
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Joe Rose - 0:48:08
Jay Brown, present when you came back.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:48:12
He was gone from there.

Joe Rose - 0:48:15
OK. And did anybody. So just coincidentally, the instance you're describing is one of the instances that has been complained about.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:48:25
And so one of the harassment that he's done to me, I don't know that that's been a complaint about I wasn't.

Joe Rose - 0:48:32
No, I'm telling you, that's one of the complaints I that the city received.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:48:36
The.

Joe Rose - 0:48:37
Incident. It's on the morning of February 7th, 2023 I Sergeant Julius J. Brown. I presume that's who you're referring to.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:48:45
Yep, Jay Brown was on.

Joe Rose - 0:48:47
Post at Bolio ACP with Lieutenant Hughes. Do you know if Hughes was the other guy? Jerod Balthrop - 0:48:53
I'm assuming it was. I don't know, Lieutenant Hughes, but.

Joe Rose - 0:49:00
When we were approached by Jared Baldrop, Mr. Baldrop was trying to escort a contractor without following proper procedures in accordance with his credential privileges. Mr.

Baldrop possesses an A i.e. card. A i.e. cards do not possess trusted traveler privileges. DPW employees have been notified of this multiple times and have followed except Mr. Ballthrup.

When I told Mr. Ballthrup that he knew what he needed to do, he attempted to sway Lieutenant Hughes and myself into just letting him through. Any truth to that? AR 170
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Jerod Balthrop - 0:49:35
Balls absolutely lie. He came up screaming at me to the window. I didn't even give it to say a word to him. Came up screaming at me. I didn't even talk to him.

Joe Rose - 0:49:47
All right, he writes. I refused Mr. Baldrum's request, to which he continued his attempts to access the base.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:49:54
That's a lie. I was. I was telling him to calm down. I thought he was a put gun on me. I didn't do it. But no, I'm saying I didn't know if he was or not exactly that. I rate to me for no reason.

Joe Rose - 0:50:12
Who was the name?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:50:14
Who and what was the?
Joe Rose - 0:50:15
Name of the contractor you were with.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:50:17
Chuck Howard, Howard Electric and Nope. Did I try to not follow procedure that is an absolute lie. I told him no problem, I didn't know and then I would immediately go and get it.

And that's exactly what we did. You can ask the contractor. I did not pay for our electric group. I didn't say any of that. That's all I.

Joe Rose - 0:50:40
All right. And how do I get a hold of Chuck? What's the best? Jerod Balthrop - 0:50:43
Way 831-241-2019.

Joe Rose - 0:50:49
01/9.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:50:51
Yeah, that's the cell number, Howard Electric. When I pulled up and rolled the window down, literally I was rolling down and I said, hey, how's it going? You start screaming at me.

I'm tired of you steady employees. I think you didn't get away with with anything. And then you know better and I said, you know you need to pass for him. I said I didn't know, bro. And last time I brought a contractor and I can bring him in. You're a liar and said you know AR 171
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better. And I said, I said take it easy. I said chill. And then he said that you, you chill like that.

And I go, bro, chill, I'll go get one, no problem. And then I said I made a left. I went over the card check.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:51:07
And and that's when the other guard went over to him was talked to him and he was like, hey, take it easy bro. And and then he like, he made him take a break or something. And then I, I went with the contract. We went inside and we did the paper. 5 minutes later we're out and I brought him right in. It's not a big deal. I mean, I don't know. I'm there 8 hours anyway. I mean, it doesn't matter to me if I'm going to fill out paperwork. I mean, I just, he was going crazy though literally like scared me like.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:51:34
You know, he was like, he was like ready to fight me and I didn't understand why over the past. I mean, he would arrested me, Sir. If I would have tried to access the base without the proper step, I would have been arrested. That's what they do. Okay. So at no point did I try to go in there without the proper paperwork because I know I would be arrested. I've seen people arrested for that.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:52:04
I know that already. There's no way that that happened. That's a total lie.

Joe Rose - 0:52:37
Can.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:52:38
Wait lie.

Joe Rose - 0:52:40
He writes Lieutenant Hughes then directed him and the contractor to the visitor center to properly be vetted, fill out a POM Form 7, get a background check and receive an access pass that he's direct you to the contract and the contractor Chuck to the visitor center.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:52:57
He did after, after, after he was like. Going and met. I can talk to him and then the guy says just go get a pass, okay, no problem.

Joe Rose - 0:53:07
All right, so and then it says in his complaint or incident report, Mr. Balter returned to the gate showing the contractors pass, but refused to show the bar code on his A i.e. So I could and then is that not true?
AR 172
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Jerod Balthrop - 0:53:27
That's not true. He wouldn't have let me through if I had shown the bar code. That's what they can, and.

Joe Rose - 0:53:33
He says says a moment after he decided to show his bar code, I scanned it and allowed him through the contract, him and the contractor access.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:53:42
So there.

Joe Rose - 0:53:44
He was not there.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:53:45
When we came back to the guard gate, he was not there at all. It was the cubes. It was the other guy was there. That relieved him, told him go take a chill fill. He wasn't even there. He went off on me. The other guy relieved him, told him to go take a break and after we were done and the other guy with Jane Brown wasn't even there when when the other guy let us through and I I showed it, he scanned my card and he looked at the pass as you go ahead.

Joe Rose - 0:54:17
Let me You're going to Let me read some more to you, Jared. You're going to want to hear this in jail, right?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:54:21
Okay.

Joe Rose - 0:54:22
I just want to give give you an opportunity to respond to it. Jared Balthrup has had similar previous incidents, it says, regarding attempting to escort contractors on without proper vetting a few times previous.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:54:36
Really, I've never brought a contract from since it came back.

Joe Rose - 0:54:40
You have not, since you've been back from your knee that.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:54:44
Was the first one and then like 2 1/2 years.

AR 173
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Joe Rose - 0:54:48
Okay. That's why I'm trying to That's why I'm giving you the chance to, you know, know what's what people are saying and give you a chance to respond. Guards. Guards having to ask him multiple times to dim his ultra bright LED lights at O 600 AM on approach at Bolio gate to which he ignores and continues to blind our officers at the access control point. No.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:55:15
How do you do that daylight?
Joe Rose - 0:55:17
Since.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:55:17
Daylight. I want to, but I think he said at 6:00 AM. But you you I don't come over at 6:00 AM.

Second 30. Yeah, it's always been 7:30. I never go out at six.

Joe Rose - 0:55:29
So you're arriving time for work is 730.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:55:31
Every day for the last 20-3 years.

Joe Rose - 0:55:35
Super early or you get there a little bit before 7:30.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:55:39
No, and I don't work weekends and I'm not on call. I don't. I I don't. I I sent 3:00 to 4:00, so that's a straight up lie because I don't work at six.

Joe Rose - 0:55:51
OK.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:55:52
That's full of shit. He's just trying to get me in trouble for no reason for his girlfriend.

Joe Rose - 0:55:59
OK, he's also been known to approach the A/C P blasting his music, which is very unprofessional. Any have you ever had any complaints about meat loud music? Jerod Balthrop - 0:56:12
Not one and blasted that loud. It's a Chevy. My headlights aren't even super bright LED's that he says. It's it's a stock GMC truck. I didn't change the headlights out in it. They're just AR 174
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headlights lifted. I didn't try to even the Amazon so good, but you know.

Joe Rose - 0:56:36
Then it says Balthra. Purposely, Mr. Balthra purposely ignores any form of rules and regulation that was set in place by the Garrison Commander to ensure the safety and security of the Presidio. He also presents the utmost disregard for courtesy and professionalism from what I've witnessed. Respectfully, Sergeant Julius J. Brown, Presidio of Monterey Guard Force dated February 14th, 2023, so.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:57:05
He probably did this after that incident to try to cover up his tracks from what he did to us in case I filed a complaint on him or something.

Joe Rose - 0:57:16
Because he alleges this happened on February 7th and he sent this on February 14th.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:57:22
Well, it didn't happen February 7th. It was in February. But he was attacking me. This is all bullshit, what he's saying right here. I don't even want to work at 6:00 in the morning. He's lying. You said you.

Joe Rose - 0:57:39
Were right.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:57:41
You said he's saying there's multiple complaints that have been made, and I heard Jared mentioned earlier that he's worked here 23 years and you've never had any.

Joe Rose - 0:57:51
When did you first start having trouble with Julius Brown? Jerod Balthrop - 0:57:55
After the subway girl.

Joe Rose - 0:57:58
After the subway when you.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:57:59
See me talking there and explaining to her.

Joe Rose - 0:58:01
Julius Brown there at the Subway.

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Jerod Balthrop - 0:58:04
I think he was, I'm pretty sure because there was that day, that girl or whatever I was explaining to her, I was there, checking the lights. I was there. This is what I do. We have access to the whole Army building. The army owns it. And when we need to go into somewhere to fix something, we have asked it and I was explaining that to her. Well, maybe he didn't like that.

Joe Rose - 0:58:31
All right. Well, let me ask you some questions about that. You know, let me ask you so because there's overlap, you know, in what you're telling me and what they're telling me, right? There's some, some of the stuff you're saying. At the same time, while you're denying some of the allegations, there's like overlap, so exam. You know, there was discussion about the headlights or whatever, you know, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, but let's look at that way. So let's go back to them, to the map here and show me if you would, please, just so I can get a sense of this where the subway is on the on the Presidio campus.

Jerod Balthrop - 0:59:12
It's at Building 660. Over here, the exchange Army, Air Force exchange services towards the top, towards right there. Yep, that's where it is.

Joe Rose - 0:59:25
OK, so it's over here. Is it in this building?
Jerod Balthrop - 0:59:29
Yes, it's right there where those little yellow things are.

Joe Rose - 0:59:32
Oh, I see. Subway sandwiches. Is it right on the corner? Jerod Balthrop - 0:59:36
And the back door is right there where the yellow thing is. That's why I saw the lights through. It was wide open all.

Joe Rose - 0:59:43
Right. Let's talk about that, so. Where is the back door? Jerod Balthrop - 0:59:47
Right there where the yellow thing is.

Joe Rose - 0:59:50
Where the yellow. What this thing? Oh, I think I'll. I have an. I'm having an audio issue. Jared.

AR 176
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There's a microphone issue. Possibly it's not you standing up or for some reason there's a microphone problem. Can you hear me? OKOK, so. You're coming in and out. I don't know why I may have to do a phone call with you, but if you smack it around a little bit, Ryan, can you hit it or something any better? Let's see. I mean, you hear me, okay, but let me. Hang on. I can't hear you, buddy. Hold on one second.

Joe Rose - 1:00:45
I don't know if we disconnect and reconnect, if that will make a difference. Or maybe I can call e-mail you the Zoom link. Yeah, I can do that. The other option is we could you could call me if there's a phone on. I don't know if that's a conference line if you can dial out, but.

Joe Rose - 1:01:20
You want to try that? Let's try that. I'll give you my cell number. It's 80557008. Actually, Wait, let me give you a different number. Let me give you a different number. Let's do 805- 491-1270.

Joe Rose - 1:01:51
805-491-1270. 805911270.

Jerod Balthrop - 1:03:39
Call from Brian to accept press 1. Just press 1. This call is now being.

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Insights:

Brands - 15.6%
Geopolitical - 4.7%
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Keywords - 23.4%
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Locations - 1.6%
Money - 4.7%
Ordinals - 4.7%
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People - 22.7%
Quantities - 3.1%
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Times - 18.0%
AR 182
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Speak
10 Dundas Street Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2G9 www.speakai.co +1 (226) 777-9535 [email protected]
Title: 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview Transcript:
18 min read (3474 Words)
0 - 00:00:00
This call is now being
1 - 00:00:01
recorded.
2 - 00:00:03
Ok, I can hear.
1 - 00:00:05
Can
2 - 00:00:05
you guys hear me?
1 - 00:00:07
Yeah. All
2 - 00:00:09
right. I'm recording
0 - 00:00:10
on the Zoom. I'm
2 - 00:00:11
recording the phone call.
1 - 00:00:14
We got it all
AR 183
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2 - 00:00:14
covered here. Ok. So
1 - 00:00:17
show me
2 - 00:00:17
Jared, where is the back door of the subway in relation to where my 1 - 00:00:23
cursor is?
2 - 00:00:24
Tell me which way to go.
0 - 00:00:26
You're not
2 - 00:00:26
sharing the
1 - 00:00:27
screen. We can't see it. Oh, gosh,
2 - 00:00:29
I'm sorry,
1 - 00:00:33
how about now? Uh, it's, uh, it's right there. It says subway shop 0 - 00:00:40
with the opening, the back
1 - 00:00:41
door is right there. It's right over here.
2 - 00:00:45
Is that
1 - 00:00:45
right here? Yeah.

AR 184
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0 - 00:00:47
And
2 - 00:00:47
that's why I was in
1 - 00:00:48
my truck driving. I thought,
2 - 00:00:51
hold
1 - 00:00:51
on. Let's
2 - 00:00:52
just let me make sure I'm
1 - 00:00:53
clear on where everything
2 - 00:00:54
is. So
1 - 00:00:55
that
2 - 00:00:55
this wall is where the, the
1 - 00:00:57
back door is.
0 - 00:00:59
No, this one over
1 - 00:01:02
here,
0 - 00:01:03
this white car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right there
2 - 00:01:05
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right there. Yeah. And
0 - 00:01:07
it was
2 - 00:01:08
wide
0 - 00:01:08
open
1 - 00:01:08
the back door.
2 - 00:01:09
So
1 - 00:01:10
where
2 - 00:01:10
do you normally
1 - 00:01:11
go in? Do you
2 - 00:01:12
go in on the
0 - 00:01:12
other side of the building
1 - 00:01:13
or what you
2 - 00:01:14
go, you go
0 - 00:01:15
in right here where the is and you walk in the middle and you walk 2 - 00:01:19
over
AR 186
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1 - 00:01:19
to it,
2 - 00:01:20
but I was
0 - 00:01:20
driving in here and it
2 - 00:01:22
was raining and
0 - 00:01:23
then I saw, I
2 - 00:01:23
saw the lights flickering through the door. That's why I parked right here 0 - 00:01:27
and I went in there
2 - 00:01:28
to check
1 - 00:01:28
them.
2 - 00:01:29
Where did
1 - 00:01:29
you park?
2 - 00:01:31
Park right
0 - 00:01:31
here in the front, in the front
2 - 00:01:33
parking?
AR 187
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0 - 00:01:34
And then I walked into the, into
2 - 00:01:35
the door to check. Yeah, right there.
1 - 00:01:38
Uh, ok.
2 - 00:01:39
And so you
1 - 00:01:40
were headed over there for lunch,
2 - 00:01:42
uh, for a
0 - 00:01:43
great time, but I saw, I was getting ready to park and I 2 - 00:01:46
saw the light flicker
0 - 00:01:47
look like. So that's why I went in to check real quick right here where 2 - 00:01:50
the door, the door
0 - 00:01:51
is open. I fall through it.
2 - 00:01:53
All right, let's
1 - 00:01:53
go. Your
2 - 00:01:55
motivation
1 - 00:01:56
AR 188
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in going over there was
2 - 00:01:57
to get food.
0 - 00:01:59
I was going over to get food. Yeah. Um, we meet there sometimes and have a snack, but I was, I was
1 - 00:02:05
pulling in. That's
0 - 00:02:06
when I, I looked over, I was looking the doors open and it looked like the lights are flickering.

So I pulled over real quick and that's why I went in there. 2 - 00:02:15
Got it. Ok. So you got, you
1 - 00:02:17
went over there, you're gonna
2 - 00:02:18
get some food.
1 - 00:02:19
You
2 - 00:02:19
see the door wide open, you look inside, you see the lights flicker, it's storming out. 1 - 00:02:25
You decide you're gonna the back door
2 - 00:02:28
to look
1 - 00:02:28
at the lights
0 - 00:02:29
to check it out. See if the power is gonna drop out the door or AR 189
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1 - 00:02:32
not. I got it.
0 - 00:02:34
And she yells at
1 - 00:02:35
me.
2 - 00:02:36
Now, when you say yell to
1 - 00:02:37
you, do you mean
2 - 00:02:38
literally? She yelled at you?
1 - 00:02:41
She
2 - 00:02:41
said, hey,
0 - 00:02:42
you're not supposed to be coming through
2 - 00:02:43
here
0 - 00:02:43
said you guys can't come
1 - 00:02:45
through here no more. And
0 - 00:02:46
like that. And I said,
1 - 00:02:48
I
0 - 00:02:48
AR 190
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said, I don't come through here and is not my boss. And we work for the army. Army owns this building. We're building, I'm here to check the light. 1 - 00:02:59
No,
0 - 00:03:00
you're not. She said, and I said, yeah, I am. Um I got a, she was like, no, you just wanted to walk through here. I said, no, I didn't, I can't check light. And that's when the two guards are standing there. And I explained to her, I, I, the army owns the building. We maintain the support of the army is, is your landlord, but we work for the army. 1 - 00:03:28
We
0 - 00:03:29
maintain the buildings. We need access to anywhere in the building 1 - 00:03:32
for
0 - 00:03:33
emergencies and repairs. And uh and then the other guys got their stances and the left the right then was
1 - 00:03:44
there any
0 - 00:03:44
discussion
2 - 00:03:45
between you and any of the guards?
0 - 00:03:48
Yeah, one
1 - 00:03:51
card. They
2 - 00:03:51
didn't say anything to you.

AR 191
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0 - 00:03:53
No, 11 word.
2 - 00:03:55
Did you mention Isil's name?
0 - 00:03:59
I did, I told her, uh I told uh, not my boss because she mentioned it to me. She said, I still says she doesn't want you guys walk through here anymore. Well, I don't walk through there. I mean, normally
1 - 00:04:11
anyway, I mean,
0 - 00:04:13
and I said, well, I told my boss
1 - 00:04:15
and
0 - 00:04:16
we work for the army so, you know, I'm checking the lights and the building for the army. 1 - 00:04:23
Did you
2 - 00:04:24
say anything else about
1 - 00:04:25
isil? No,
2 - 00:04:28
you're 100% sure of
1 - 00:04:29
that. Do
2 - 00:04:32
you know? I,
0 - 00:04:33
yeah, I do.

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1 - 00:04:35
Do
2 - 00:04:35
you have a, any
1 - 00:04:36
sort of,
2 - 00:04:37
uh, have you had any adverse interactions with I or anything is there? 0 - 00:04:43
I've had over the years, many times that she's tried to lie and get us to come and fix things that belong to her to fix and say they belong to the army when they did it. Um, it seems that she is responsible to repair
2 - 00:05:02
or
0 - 00:05:03
it's like a remodel. If somebody's gonna move in there, she tries to get us to come and do the work first instead of trying to go the proper way, which is her pay for it because she's gonna receive the rent from it. So, have
2 - 00:05:19
you, have you had conflict with isil
1 - 00:05:22
you
2 - 00:05:22
yourself?
0 - 00:05:24
I don't have uh conflict with her at all. Um, but I have, uh dealt with her on, like I said, the last probably 10 occasions she called me out to job trying to get me to do work for free that she should be paying that for
1 - 00:05:41
when that
AR 193
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0 - 00:05:42
happened.
2 - 00:05:42
Have you guys had any conflict or have
1 - 00:05:44
you,
2 - 00:05:45
how have you, how
1 - 00:05:46
have you with her. I would
0 - 00:05:48
tell her you need to put a 42 83 format to the
1 - 00:05:52
army
0 - 00:05:53
requesting this work to get done. It's new
1 - 00:05:55
work. I
0 - 00:05:56
cannot, I cannot do it without army
1 - 00:05:58
approval
0 - 00:05:59
and then she'll know. OK? And then uh she won't do it because she knows the army won't pay for it.
1 - 00:06:07
Drop
2 - 00:06:08
42 83. Is that like a
AR 194
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1 - 00:06:09
work
2 - 00:06:10
order form or something?
0 - 00:06:11
It's a, that's the one for new work that they have to request. So she has to request from the army to have the work done. And once they figure
1 - 00:06:20
out
0 - 00:06:21
that it's for her, they'll deny it. So she doesn't do it. 1 - 00:06:25
She's,
0 - 00:06:26
she's very stinky. Yeah.
2 - 00:06:29
All right.
1 - 00:06:29
Do you have a low
2 - 00:06:30
opinion of isil?
0 - 00:06:33
I have a low opinion of anybody that, that
1 - 00:06:35
cheats and
0 - 00:06:36
still to try to fly.
1 - 00:06:38
Not anybody I'm
AR 195
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2 - 00:06:39
asking specifically about.
1 - 00:06:41
Do you have a
2 - 00:06:41
low opinion
1 - 00:06:42
of her?
0 - 00:06:43
She's not my favorite person but she's not my worst enemy. 1 - 00:06:47
I mean,
0 - 00:06:48
I, I, you know,
1 - 00:06:50
I
0 - 00:06:50
don't, I, like I said, I
1 - 00:06:51
mean,
0 - 00:06:52
I don't think super highly ever because of her dishonesty. Um, but, uh, other 1 - 00:06:58
than that I
0 - 00:06:59
don't
1 - 00:06:59
have no, no
0 - 00:07:00
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reason to not like her. 20 I've done work that's justified before. 2 - 00:07:08
Ok. So Leslie, I spoke with
1 - 00:07:11
her. Can
2 - 00:07:12
you think of any reason why Leslie
1 - 00:07:14
would
2 - 00:07:14
lie or exaggerate or embellish about what happened on that day when you came 0 - 00:07:20
in that
1 - 00:07:20
day.
0 - 00:07:21
Well, honestly, like I said, I
1 - 00:07:23
don't know
0 - 00:07:23
if we, if that guy is her boyfriend or not and maybe he put her up to it. Um, I'm not sure. Uh, I don't
1 - 00:07:30
know
0 - 00:07:30
why they would, she would even be saying any kind of thing. I mean, we were like, you know, I thought we were friends and stuff but I, you know, all I did was like, tip her heavenly.

You'd be nice to her all the time.
1 - 00:07:44
And
AR 197
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0 - 00:07:45
the other girls too, Rebecca, did you talk to Rebecca and the other girls that work here and ask him about me if I'm
1 - 00:07:50
rude
0 - 00:07:51
or, you know, they'll, they'll tell you that I'm the nicest guy that comes in there. So I don't understand why she would be saying this stuff and let that guard put her up to it. 2 - 00:08:03
That's your thinking. Is that possibly the guard
1 - 00:08:06
grew up to it?
2 - 00:08:08
Ok.
0 - 00:08:08
Thank you.
2 - 00:08:09
Well,
1 - 00:08:09
here's what
2 - 00:08:10
she said. It's a really, a lot of overlap,
1 - 00:08:13
a lot of
2 - 00:08:14
overlap about the conversation. But,
0 - 00:08:17
but
2 - 00:08:17
AR 198
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there's some missing pieces that she said that, um,
1 - 00:08:23
that you
2 - 00:08:23
told
1 - 00:08:24
her
2 - 00:08:26
that you, she said that she was in there. It was a slow day because, 0 - 00:08:30
um,
1 - 00:08:33
she
2 - 00:08:33
said it was, uh,
1 - 00:08:35
when
2 - 00:08:35
the military
1 - 00:08:36
and the workers
2 - 00:08:37
are off during the holidays and that there was only Leslie at the restaurant and, um, she mopped the floor and that, because she mopped the floor, she left the door open, uh, near 1 - 00:08:52
the
2 - 00:08:52
trashes.
1 - 00:08:54
AR 199
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 203, Packet Page 448 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
And
2 - 00:08:54
because she was trying to allow the fresh air from
0 - 00:08:57
outside, the floors weren't mocked, they weren't
1 - 00:09:01
shiny,
0 - 00:09:02
they were not wet from mopping. There was no mock outside or be careful walk through here that, that there was, she did not just mock. She had that door open all day. I drove by later that day, it was wide
1 - 00:09:13
open
0 - 00:09:14
in the afternoon. She's lying
2 - 00:09:17
about mop, having mop the
1 - 00:09:19
floors, you
0 - 00:09:20
see it, I can tell
2 - 00:09:24
to lie about something like that
0 - 00:09:26
again. All this motivation to lie. The only thing I could 1 - 00:09:30
think of is for him.
2 - 00:09:31
Would she
AR 200
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 204, Packet Page 449 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:09:32
be in trouble for having that door open to her boss? Won't, doesn't want her, she will be in trouble for it actually.
1 - 00:09:43
Right. Get in
0 - 00:09:44
trouble. We're leaving that door open by her boss. I know her boss 1 - 00:09:49
very
0 - 00:09:49
well. He's a good friend of mine. Hey, he knows that I took the light 1 - 00:09:53
from there.
0 - 00:09:53
He knows that I need access from there. Well,
1 - 00:09:58
here's what?
2 - 00:10:01
Yeah, I mean,
1 - 00:10:02
I don't know. It
2 - 00:10:02
doesn't. She said she mopped the
1 - 00:10:04
floor
2 - 00:10:04
and left the door open. You came in through the back door, 0 - 00:10:08
you,
AR 201
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 205, Packet Page 450 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
2 - 00:10:10
which you confirmed you did.
1 - 00:10:12
You said that
2 - 00:10:13
she was surprised that you had come in through the back door. She 1 - 00:10:16
stopped you.
2 - 00:10:19
I'm sorry
0 - 00:10:21
because I never did.
1 - 00:10:22
She
0 - 00:10:23
was right. That's
1 - 00:10:24
true. She
2 - 00:10:26
said, um, she is starting to get in trouble for leaving the door open and so please don't come in through the back
1 - 00:10:34
door and your
2 - 00:10:36
response to her was, and it's similar to what you said, not exact instead of saying ok, because you admit you did not say ok,
1 - 00:10:45
you
2 - 00:10:45
said you explained to her
AR 202
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 206, Packet Page 451 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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1 - 00:10:47
why
2 - 00:10:47
what she was asking you, you would not comply with, correct. 0 - 00:10:52
I was explaining to
1 - 00:10:53
her
0 - 00:10:53
why we need to get in the places sometimes.
1 - 00:10:57
Yeah, she said that
2 - 00:10:59
you didn't say, OK, you said you were explaining
1 - 00:11:02
to her why
2 - 00:11:02
that was not gonna happen, right?
1 - 00:11:06
Because
0 - 00:11:06
sometimes I have to go in an emergency situation. And
2 - 00:11:10
she
1 - 00:11:10
said, and
2 - 00:11:11
she said, I already, you said I already came in through the back AR 203
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 207, Packet Page 452 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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1 - 00:11:17
door
2 - 00:11:18
and she said, you can't come in through the back door unless you have a work order. 1 - 00:11:23
Yeah, there's
0 - 00:11:24
something
1 - 00:11:25
there and you, I
2 - 00:11:27
do have a work order. I'm
1 - 00:11:29
here to
2 - 00:11:29
check your
1 - 00:11:30
lights and then you started looking
2 - 00:11:33
around at the lights and she thought that this was a fabrication that you had created. That in truth, you were there to get a sandwich. But that once she confronted you about coming in the back door and asked you not to and you resisted that you 1 - 00:11:47
have in
2 - 00:11:47
her mind. I I realize you disagree
1 - 00:11:50
with this
2 - 00:11:51
in her
AR 204
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 208, Packet Page 453 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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1 - 00:11:51
mind.
2 - 00:11:51
You had fabricated the light
1 - 00:11:53
overhead lights
2 - 00:11:54
as a pretext to explain why.
1 - 00:11:57
And then you
2 - 00:11:58
mentioned um she mentioned to you, oh, you
1 - 00:12:01
ordered
2 - 00:12:03
you ordered a sandwich and, and she explained to you that the 1 - 00:12:08
building
2 - 00:12:09
owner or that the person responsible,
1 - 00:12:12
she
2 - 00:12:12
didn't
1 - 00:12:12
know her name.
0 - 00:12:14
She
AR 205
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 209, Packet Page 454 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
1 - 00:12:15
said that she was
0 - 00:12:16
getting
2 - 00:12:16
upset about people coming in through the back door and that you responded and said tell is she can suck it. And then you referenced your penis area and your 1 - 00:12:26
genitals
2 - 00:12:27
and you made a v shape like this. Tell is
1 - 00:12:29
she can suck
0 - 00:12:29
it. Really? Oh
1 - 00:12:33
So
2 - 00:12:33
are you,
1 - 00:12:34
are you denying
0 - 00:12:35
that that happened? Yeah, I and all that she's making that step. But she told 1 - 00:12:42
me
0 - 00:12:42
that I
1 - 00:12:44
told
AR 206
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 210, Packet Page 455 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:12:44
that she doesn't want
1 - 00:12:46
you
0 - 00:12:46
to come through the back door anymore. And I
2 - 00:12:49
had only
0 - 00:12:50
one came in there once
2 - 00:12:51
before
1 - 00:12:51
like
0 - 00:12:52
three
2 - 00:12:53
years
0 - 00:12:53
ago and it was check
1 - 00:12:55
and
0 - 00:12:55
it was open
1 - 00:12:56
again
0 - 00:12:57
and she didn't say one word to me. Then not
1 - 00:13:00
AR 207
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 211, Packet Page 456 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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one
2 - 00:13:00
word about
1 - 00:13:01
it.
0 - 00:13:02
Nobody ever told you, nobody told me about her boss. The owner of Subway is in there. I can walk to the back door
1 - 00:13:08
any time
0 - 00:13:09
with
1 - 00:13:09
the same word
0 - 00:13:11
because
2 - 00:13:12
we're, we, we're in there
0 - 00:13:13
sometimes during the
1 - 00:13:14
day.
0 - 00:13:15
So the
1 - 00:13:15
issue
2 - 00:13:16
is really the
1 - 00:13:17
AR 208
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 212, Packet Page 457 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
gesturing to
2 - 00:13:18
your penis and telling
1 - 00:13:20
her that
2 - 00:13:21
I can suck it.
0 - 00:13:24
And I did
1 - 00:13:25
that
0 - 00:13:25
and that, that this
1 - 00:13:27
is
0 - 00:13:29
there
2 - 00:13:29
were two witnesses present, not Brown Leslie and another guy that Sanchez, 1 - 00:13:35
he's
2 - 00:13:36
a security officer. And they both
1 - 00:13:38
say
2 - 00:13:38
independently
0 - 00:13:39
that you did
AR 209
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 213, Packet Page 458 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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1 - 00:13:40
this.
0 - 00:13:41
The, the the security guy left
1 - 00:13:44
they got
0 - 00:13:45
there, they were paying for the sandwich, right? When she started to face 1 - 00:13:48
up to me, the
2 - 00:13:49
security
1 - 00:13:49
guy
2 - 00:13:50
who I spoke to said he was there when you did it
1 - 00:13:53
and that he
2 - 00:13:54
told you, hey, man, she asked you nicely or not to come through the back 1 - 00:14:00
door. His
2 - 00:14:04
here's what he wrote. He said I want to address an issue that happened at Subway with one of the
1 - 00:14:09
city
2 - 00:14:10
Monterey employees,
AR 210
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 214, Packet Page 459 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
1 - 00:14:11
Jared, I went
2 - 00:14:13
up to Subway for lunch and as I was conversing with the cashier, Leslie Jared 1 - 00:14:17
came in using the
2 - 00:14:18
back door to subway. She greeted
1 - 00:14:20
him and
2 - 00:14:20
asked
1 - 00:14:20
if he could start going
2 - 00:14:21
around instead of cutting through the restaurant or kitchen. She mentioned she got talked to by the A FAA F E S manager about it. So now she
1 - 00:14:32
needs to
2 - 00:14:32
secure the door.
1 - 00:14:33
Jared
2 - 00:14:34
mentioned he has
1 - 00:14:35
keys
2 - 00:14:36
regardless.

AR 211
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 215, Packet Page 460 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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1 - 00:14:37
Jared
2 - 00:14:37
then said he's checking the lights and looked up and pretended to look at the lights and proceeded to walk to the front
1 - 00:14:43
of the restaurant.
2 - 00:14:44
Leslie said she appreciated it without a work order providing 1 - 00:14:47
he needs
2 - 00:14:48
to be back there. She can get in trouble and she wouldn't want is gone. A A F E s manager to get
1 - 00:14:54
her
2 - 00:14:54
in trouble.
1 - 00:14:55
Jared
2 - 00:14:56
then said in a stern voice, quote, tell she can suck it close 1 - 00:15:01
quote while
2 - 00:15:01
slapping both arms towards his groin. Groin
0 - 00:15:06
said,
2 - 00:15:07
AR 212
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 216, Packet Page 461 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
quote, look, man, she's asking you nicely. She doesn't wanna get in trouble. Close quote, Jared ignored
1 - 00:15:12
me and continued to talk to Leslie saying
2 - 00:15:14
he had keys. So it wouldn't matter if she locked the door, he has keys 1 - 00:15:17
to the
2 - 00:15:18
installation.
0 - 00:15:19
I don't have keys to that door.
2 - 00:15:22
I
0 - 00:15:23
said, I never said that. And then the other thing is the guards left. They weren't even 1 - 00:15:28
around,
0 - 00:15:30
they were paying for a sandwich. When I first walked through, they weren't there and he didn't tell
1 - 00:15:35
me,
0 - 00:15:36
hey, Jerry, man, you do. This is, that's all fabricated shit. All this stuff is fabricated. 1 - 00:15:43
He,
2 - 00:15:43
I'm telling
AR 213
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 217, Packet Page 462 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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1 - 00:15:44
a dude
0 - 00:15:44
who was there and he likes her and they made this shit up because he's scared. But I was gonna go complain about it the second time with the contractor and then I, 2 - 00:15:52
I
0 - 00:15:53
wouldn't file the complaint without even
1 - 00:15:54
knowing
0 - 00:15:55
that any of this was going on.
1 - 00:15:57
So
2 - 00:15:57
this, uh this
0 - 00:15:58
complaint came
2 - 00:15:59
in in January before you had the con issue with the contractor. 1 - 00:16:05
Well, I, I
0 - 00:16:05
don't
1 - 00:16:06
know, I,
0 - 00:16:08
I
AR 214
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 218, Packet Page 463 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
2 - 00:16:09
wanna give you the benefit of the doubt but I gotta, I mean, I'm just being honest with you.

Help me understand
0 - 00:16:15
the guy. They
2 - 00:16:17
gotta, you, you gotta let me finish.
1 - 00:16:19
You gotta let me
0 - 00:16:19
finish.
1 - 00:16:20
Help
2 - 00:16:20
me understand how if one of those security officers has 1 - 00:16:26
a
2 - 00:16:26
romantic interest in Leslie, help connect the dots for me. How then 1 - 00:16:33
does
2 - 00:16:34
Leslie? Why does she lie and say one that she was
1 - 00:16:38
mopping
2 - 00:16:39
the floor and two more importantly
1 - 00:16:42
that
AR 215
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 219, Packet Page 464 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
2 - 00:16:42
you said I can suck it and gesture to your penis. How does 1 - 00:16:47
that connect
0 - 00:16:48
it
2 - 00:16:48
to this romantic theory of, of the
1 - 00:16:51
case? I don't
0 - 00:16:54
know, I was just saying those guys weren't there just like him saying he was 2 - 00:17:00
at the guard
0 - 00:17:00
gate when I went back through and I
1 - 00:17:02
refused
0 - 00:17:02
to show him the
2 - 00:17:03
thing. He wasn't
0 - 00:17:03
even
1 - 00:17:03
there. Well, I'm
2 - 00:17:05
just trying to figure out focusing exclusively on the allegation because that's really the most serious
AR 216
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 220, Packet Page 465 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
1 - 00:17:11
of the allegations is that you
2 - 00:17:13
said people can suck it and
1 - 00:17:15
rub motion
2 - 00:17:16
to your penis. That's
1 - 00:17:19
allegations.
2 - 00:17:20
You're denying that I hear
1 - 00:17:21
your denial.
2 - 00:17:22
I've got
1 - 00:17:23
to figure
0 - 00:17:23
out either
2 - 00:17:24
you denying
1 - 00:17:25
it. Two
2 - 00:17:25
people are saying it
1 - 00:17:26
happened.
0 - 00:17:27
AR 217
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 221, Packet Page 466 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
She was the
1 - 00:17:28
only one
0 - 00:17:29
there, the other guy
2 - 00:17:30
had left.
1 - 00:17:32
She's,
2 - 00:17:32
she's
0 - 00:17:33
the
2 - 00:17:33
only one there not consistent with the other statements, but assuming she's the only 1 - 00:17:39
one there.
2 - 00:17:39
Why is she, why is she making this up because she can get in trouble for having 0 - 00:17:45
that back door open and her boss would fire
2 - 00:17:47
her for
0 - 00:17:48
it and she didn't the floor as she think she did. She throw up that you went by 1 - 00:17:52
later in the
0 - 00:17:53
day and it was, yeah, it was still
AR 218
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 222, Packet Page 467 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
2 - 00:17:54
open
0 - 00:17:55
wide,
2 - 00:17:55
open the door.
1 - 00:17:56
She was
0 - 00:17:57
leaving
1 - 00:17:57
the door for a long time,
0 - 00:17:58
but she got in
2 - 00:17:59
trouble
0 - 00:18:00
for that day and she didn't want me to sit down on
1 - 00:18:03
her
0 - 00:18:03
properly, you know.
1 - 00:18:07
Uh, well, I I I
0 - 00:18:08
don't know why they would make up shit. I mean, like I said, all I did was, like, buy her lunch and give her a good kit. Probably the only one
1 - 00:18:16
that ever
AR 219
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 223, Packet Page 468 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
0 - 00:18:16
did Rebecca and the other girl that worked there was disrespectful to them. Or if I gave them money for their kids and for their birthday for, for their baby, why would they do that? If I was a
2 - 00:18:31
disrespectful
0 - 00:18:32
person makes no sense. Well,
1 - 00:18:38
it,
0 - 00:18:39
it
2 - 00:18:39
is what one theory would be and I'm trying to find out what the facts are. 1 - 00:18:44
Ok?
2 - 00:18:44
You're telling me this didn't happen. Leslie told me it did happen. Sanchez told me it did happen. So the question
0 - 00:18:50
was there,
2 - 00:18:52
I'm sorry, wasn't there, there was,
1 - 00:18:56
wasn't
2 - 00:18:56
there? Sanchez says he was there. So I've got a figure
1 - 00:19:01
who tell me,
AR 220
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 224, Packet Page 469 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
2 - 00:19:03
I'm sorry, maybe
0 - 00:19:07
I don't know. Well, who knows
1 - 00:19:08
about
0 - 00:19:08
that?
2 - 00:19:09
I
0 - 00:19:09
saw the and
1 - 00:19:11
literally the,
2 - 00:19:14
the main thing
1 - 00:19:15
is,
2 - 00:19:16
you know, one possible explanation is that, you know,
1 - 00:19:22
you
2 - 00:19:23
reacted in a momentary lapse of judgment
1 - 00:19:27
and then it, you know, you
2 - 00:19:30
made a mistake because you've had prior instances with, 1 - 00:19:35
AR 221
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 225, Packet Page 470 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
you
2 - 00:19:35
know,
1 - 00:19:36
I
0 - 00:19:36
mean, you know, but I didn't
1 - 00:19:38
touch
0 - 00:19:38
my drone like that, you know, I mean,
1 - 00:19:43
you know,
0 - 00:19:43
it was, it got a little heated, I'm gonna say, and it's been four or five months to go, you know, I might have, I might have told her something like that like, you know, whatever, but I, I ain't gonna be touching my groin and stuff like that. I'm not perfect. 2 - 00:19:58
She didn't say you touch
1 - 00:19:59
your groin
2 - 00:20:00
so much. And she said you kind of motion to your thighs like suck it, 1 - 00:20:05
you know, like this, OK?
0 - 00:20:09
And
1 - 00:20:11
I,
AR 222
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 226, Packet Page 471 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
0 - 00:20:12
I was gonna say,
2 - 00:20:13
and, and she,
0 - 00:20:14
and
2 - 00:20:14
she said she was offended by it and it
1 - 00:20:16
ended up being,
0 - 00:20:17
she's offended by it girl with a tattoo all over
1 - 00:20:20
her neck
0 - 00:20:21
and it looks like someone that came out of prison. She's offended 1 - 00:20:24
by it.
0 - 00:20:26
I think this, this is the fabric life.
1 - 00:20:30
She right here. I didn't, she didn't say
0 - 00:20:33
you got a work
1 - 00:20:34
order. She
0 - 00:20:35
didn't say none of that stuff. I
2 - 00:20:37
AR 223
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 227, Packet Page 472 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
told her I
1 - 00:20:38
need to
0 - 00:20:39
check
1 - 00:20:39
real quick
2 - 00:20:40
and you know, oh said
1 - 00:20:42
you
0 - 00:20:42
can't come in here anymore. I said I don't usually ever come in 1 - 00:20:45
here.
2 - 00:20:45
OK? I don't, she said you're
1 - 00:20:48
lying
0 - 00:20:50
and I said, no, I'm not, I'm here to take
2 - 00:20:52
the light because
0 - 00:20:53
it's
1 - 00:20:53
raining.
2 - 00:20:55
So, so
AR 224
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 228, Packet Page 473 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Created With By Speak
0 - 00:20:57
when I write
2 - 00:20:57
my report, when I, what should I say in my report that you deny saying I can suck it 1 - 00:21:04
and
2 - 00:21:04
you deny motioning
1 - 00:21:05
to your
2 - 00:21:06
growing. Is that an accurate way of characterizing your statement 1 - 00:21:10
or, or
2 - 00:21:11
not? Or do you wanna take a break and talk to Ryan about 1 - 00:21:13
it?
0 - 00:21:14
Let me take a break on that. Talk to.
2 - 00:21:17
All right, I why don't you guys? Do you mind? Just leave? We'll leave the Zoom on, leave the phone open. Do you need your cell phone, Ryan? Do you wanna hang up and 0 - 00:21:25
call back? I'll hang up and call back.
2 - 00:21:27
Ok. Sounds good. No.

AR 225
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 229, Packet Page 474 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 1 - Balthrop Interview

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Insights:

Brands - 8.5%
Keywords - 59.6%
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Ordinals - 4.3%
People - 19.1%
AR 227
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 231, Packet Page 476 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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Speak
10 Dundas Street Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2G9 www.speakai.co +1 (226) 777-9535 [email protected]
Title: 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview Transcript:
17 min read (3306 Words)
0 - 00:00:00
This call is now being recorded.
1 - 00:00:02
OK, guys, we're back on the time now is three oh four PM. It's still March 6th and after a brief break. So the question
2 - 00:00:10
pending
1 - 00:00:11
was how do I describe your response to the allegation that you said I can suck it in motion to your upper thigh, groin or genital frontal genital
2 - 00:00:23
area. That's a good
0 - 00:00:24
question. I thought about this and 100%. She's lying about the report that 2 - 00:00:32
she's
0 - 00:00:33
lying about the guards
2 - 00:00:34
being there
AR 228
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 232, Packet Page 477 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:00:35
because they had taken off. I know they left, but I do remember heatedly and I was not happy because the way she was
2 - 00:00:44
treating
0 - 00:00:45
me and talking to
2 - 00:00:46
me
0 - 00:00:47
disrespectfully, uh I did tell her
2 - 00:00:50
second
0 - 00:00:51
and I went like this to
2 - 00:00:53
my, my knees and then
0 - 00:00:55
I walked
2 - 00:00:55
away
0 - 00:00:56
because is a dirty person that sits on it
2 - 00:01:02
and
0 - 00:01:02
she's
1 - 00:01:02
always
AR 229
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 233, Packet Page 478 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:01:02
trying to get our guys in
1 - 00:01:03
trouble
0 - 00:01:04
by trying to make them do stuff that they're not supposed 2 - 00:01:06
to do and they
0 - 00:01:07
don't know better
2 - 00:01:09
because
0 - 00:01:09
she knows better. So I don't, I don't have a lot of respect for her in the first place for the last 10 years. Yeah. I, I, I believe
2 - 00:01:17
in the
0 - 00:01:17
heat of the thing. I
1 - 00:01:18
did
2 - 00:01:19
say that
1 - 00:01:20
to her,
0 - 00:01:20
but those guys weren't there and, and she didn't tell me you need a work order and she didn't mop the floor.
2 - 00:01:27
She's
AR 230
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 234, Packet Page 479 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:01:27
lying. The floor is not
2 - 00:01:29
mocked. She
1 - 00:01:30
had the door
0 - 00:01:30
wide open. She had it open all day long that day
2 - 00:01:34
and
0 - 00:01:35
that she didn't ask me for
2 - 00:01:36
a quarter.
0 - 00:01:36
She called me a liar when I told her
2 - 00:01:38
came in to look
0 - 00:01:39
at the light, which I did do so.
2 - 00:01:42
She
0 - 00:01:42
just texted me and I was hurt because I thought she was my friend. I had been tipping her for the last, uh, three years every single day, $5 every time I go ahead. Give her because I felt bad for her
2 - 00:01:56
and
0 - 00:01:56
AR 231
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 235, Packet Page 480 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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I felt bad for the other girls that worked there because the, the give them nothing and I thought she was my friend. Yeah, I was mad at
2 - 00:02:04
me
0 - 00:02:04
and her, by the way, she talked to
2 - 00:02:06
me
0 - 00:02:07
and those guys had already long left.
2 - 00:02:09
They
0 - 00:02:10
didn't see me do anything. That's a lie. They weren't there so, you know. Ok, I was upset. I was upset. I'm sorry.
2 - 00:02:21
All right. Well, I'm glad
1 - 00:02:23
you met. I'm
0 - 00:02:24
glad
1 - 00:02:24
we got that cleared up. That's good. It's always better 2 - 00:02:27
to,
1 - 00:02:29
if you make a mistake to own up to it and not to be compounding it by, you know, not being truthful. I
2 - 00:02:37
think
AR 232
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 236, Packet Page 481 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:02:37
about it. I was pretty at that
2 - 00:02:39
moment. That
0 - 00:02:39
was her and I did feel really hurt because I thought she was my 2 - 00:02:43
friend
0 - 00:02:44
and she treated me very
2 - 00:02:45
badly. She
0 - 00:02:46
treated me disrespectfully in front of that guy when she was talking 2 - 00:02:50
to me
0 - 00:02:51
and I was just trying to do my job. And she, she basically told me no, you're not doing your job. You're just coming to walk through here to get damaged. You know, when, when really, I was trying to do my job and I felt that she disrespected me. Uh I 2 - 00:03:06
told her
0 - 00:03:07
because I thought she was my friend along with the other girls that worked there. I've known them for 34 years, $5 every single day, her
2 - 00:03:16
and
0 - 00:03:16
her friend that worked there and, and I, I thought they were my good friends and for her to talk to me that way and tell me I not there doing my job. It hurt my feelings and I was angry.

AR 233
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 237, Packet Page 482 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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So, yeah. Yeah, I think I did probably do that. I mean, I'm sorry, whatever they wanna do. 1 - 00:03:36
All right.
2 - 00:03:37
So let me
1 - 00:03:39
go ahead.
0 - 00:03:40
That guy harassing
2 - 00:03:41
me
0 - 00:03:41
is a real shit and that's all
2 - 00:03:43
true.
0 - 00:03:44
And I went and filled that stuff out before any of this. I even knew about this with him. He's been harassing me and he's been harassing other city boy 2 - 00:03:54
for,
0 - 00:03:54
since COVID
2 - 00:03:55
and
0 - 00:03:56
you can call and ask them, they'll tell you independent from me. He's an asshole that guy, total
1 - 00:04:01
asshole jerk brown.

AR 234
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 238, Packet Page 483 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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2 - 00:04:05
Ok.
1 - 00:04:07
Alright so now let me show you another
2 - 00:04:09
thing
1 - 00:04:09
that I asked when I got this assignment I asked to see your training 2 - 00:04:13
records
1 - 00:04:15
or at least uh and they didn't give me the whole record but they gave me this um this Excel that has your employee is that your
2 - 00:04:25
employee number?
0 - 00:04:27
Yeah
2 - 00:04:28
and
1 - 00:04:28
then can you see this on the screen? It shows the sexual harassment, anti harassment training you've had and the type through vector solutions and so forth on these 2 - 00:04:38
dates. Do you
1 - 00:04:38
see that?
0 - 00:04:40
Yeah.
1 - 00:04:41
So it looks like according to this table, you had sexual harassment awareness training, AR 235
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 239, Packet Page 484 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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November 20 oh nine,
2 - 00:04:49
you had sexual harassment
1 - 00:04:51
A B 18 25 training in December 2011, January 20
2 - 00:04:56
14,
1 - 00:04:57
January 2016. You had a respectful workplace training E O C in February 2019 2 - 00:05:06
and
1 - 00:05:07
anti harassment training again in April 2022. According to 2 - 00:05:11
this record,
1 - 00:05:12
does that
2 - 00:05:13
match
1 - 00:05:13
roughly? I realize you can't possibly remember each and every specific day or instance. But does that match roughly with your recollection of when and how many times you've taken harassment training, sexual harassment training? But at the 2 - 00:05:26
site,
0 - 00:05:27
yeah, there could have been a few more times before 2009 actually, but that's ok. 2 - 00:05:33
That's
AR 236
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 240, Packet Page 485 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:05:33
the
1 - 00:05:35
all right.
2 - 00:05:36
Do you, do
1 - 00:05:37
you agree or disagree with the idea
2 - 00:05:40
that
1 - 00:05:40
saying Isil can suck it and making that motion could
2 - 00:05:44
be perceived
1 - 00:05:46
as a violation of the city's policy against sexual
2 - 00:05:48
harassment.
0 - 00:05:50
I, I, I wasn't sexually
2 - 00:05:53
harassing. I mean, anybody.
1 - 00:05:56
So,
2 - 00:05:56
no, you don't think
1 - 00:05:57
that would be a violation of the policy.
0 - 00:06:01
AR 237
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 241, Packet Page 486 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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Well, it's just like saying she kiss my ass. No. You
2 - 00:06:05
know, because I, you
0 - 00:06:08
know, I mean, well, yeah, I guess you could construe
2 - 00:06:11
her
0 - 00:06:12
interpretation. Right. Yeah. I mean,
2 - 00:06:14
she's
0 - 00:06:14
not, I'm
2 - 00:06:15
married and
0 - 00:06:16
she's known me for years and I, I don't hit on
2 - 00:06:19
her
0 - 00:06:19
and I mean, that's, I'm not, I wasn't there harassing her like sex who come over here, you know, it was more out of anger and, and, and anger
2 - 00:06:30
for
0 - 00:06:30
her treating me the way she did and I thought she was my friend and 2 - 00:06:36
I
0 - 00:06:36
AR 238
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 242, Packet Page 487 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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still being in the dishonest nasty person that she is. Does that make sense? 1 - 00:06:44
It does not make sense to me
2 - 00:06:46
to be
1 - 00:06:46
honest with
2 - 00:06:46
you, the
1 - 00:06:47
reason being is because as a city employee, you're supposed to act professionally even when others don't. And to me, I
0 - 00:06:54
think a
1 - 00:06:55
reasonable person would take that to mean you're saying that I still can, you know, suck your penis to another female who
2 - 00:07:03
works but
1 - 00:07:07
to
0 - 00:07:07
interpretation. Right.
1 - 00:07:13
Well, what was your
2 - 00:07:16
statement
1 - 00:07:16
in that gesture
AR 239
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 243, Packet Page 488 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:07:19
that
1 - 00:07:20
you're, you're, you're
2 - 00:07:21
under,
1 - 00:07:22
I'll tell you what, uh she said, Leslie said, I said, what do you think he was referring 2 - 00:07:27
to?
1 - 00:07:28
And she
0 - 00:07:29
said
1 - 00:07:30
we were definitely re referring to genitals. That's what 2 - 00:07:34
her, her
1 - 00:07:36
the way she took it was you were referring to your
2 - 00:07:39
genitals? No. So, no,
0 - 00:07:45
like
2 - 00:07:45
kiss my ass.
0 - 00:07:47
That
2 - 00:07:49
AR 240
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 244, Packet Page 489 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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proverbial. Yeah.
0 - 00:07:50
It wasn't like
2 - 00:07:51
10 years ago. It seems
0 - 00:07:52
like
2 - 00:07:53
it could have been,
1 - 00:07:54
it could have meant suck anything. Not necessarily your, your, 2 - 00:07:58
your,
0 - 00:08:00
exactly.
1 - 00:08:01
OK.
2 - 00:08:02
And the,
0 - 00:08:04
the, the,
2 - 00:08:06
the
1 - 00:08:06
motion into your legs. Did that have any
0 - 00:08:09
significance? Um, not really.
2 - 00:08:14
OK.

AR 241
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 245, Packet Page 490 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:08:15
Basically that,
2 - 00:08:17
and I just
0 - 00:08:17
don't like that. Walk away.
1 - 00:08:20
Ok. All right. I, um, I think that's really all I have. Um, do you have any, you mean, you know, this is, you now, you know, I've given
2 - 00:08:30
you, you, you've
1 - 00:08:31
seen all my cards. So, you know what, what I, for,
0 - 00:08:37
for whatever it's worth. But, uh, uh, reference is from 2 - 00:08:41
like a 19
0 - 00:08:42
nineties, uh, W W E wrestling thing. Right. Yeah,
2 - 00:08:47
that, yeah,
0 - 00:08:48
exactly.
2 - 00:08:49
It's,
0 - 00:08:51
uh, the W W nine. Yeah, it wasn't even, I wasn't even like 1 - 00:08:58
looking
AR 242
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 246, Packet Page 491 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:08:59
at, it's
2 - 00:09:01
not,
0 - 00:09:02
she's my friend. You didn't,
2 - 00:09:04
you didn't make that up, right.
0 - 00:09:05
That's, uh, no, that's,
2 - 00:09:12
but not
0 - 00:09:12
there. I would like to
2 - 00:09:13
my,
0 - 00:09:14
I went like that on my knees.
2 - 00:09:17
So
1 - 00:09:17
this is suck at triple H by, by w, is this what you're referring 2 - 00:09:22
to Brian? Something
0 - 00:09:25
like that? But I didn't
2 - 00:09:26
do
AR 243
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 247, Packet Page 492 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:09:26
that.
2 - 00:09:27
No, it's
0 - 00:09:29
a gesture of like, you know, whatever I'm done. I'm out of 2 - 00:09:32
here.
1 - 00:09:34
What does this even mean? Is this?
0 - 00:09:36
I don't even
1 - 00:09:36
know who this guy
2 - 00:09:37
is if
0 - 00:09:40
he's a professional wrestler. All
1 - 00:09:44
right.
2 - 00:09:45
So that, is that
1 - 00:09:48
something
2 - 00:09:49
you have
1 - 00:09:51
this guy?
2 - 00:09:52
AR 244
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 248, Packet Page 493 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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This
0 - 00:09:52
guy, it means I kiss my ass basically.
1 - 00:09:56
I thought
0 - 00:09:57
they kiss my ass. That's what I was going for. But I, I, I, I miss it and I did it in a 2 - 00:10:02
different way, but that's what I
0 - 00:10:03
meant because
1 - 00:10:07
that was not like the one
2 - 00:10:09
that,
1 - 00:10:09
that's not how you did
2 - 00:10:10
it.
0 - 00:10:11
No, no,
2 - 00:10:12
no, not
0 - 00:10:12
even close like that.
2 - 00:10:14
No, I
0 - 00:10:15
went like this to my
AR 245
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 249, Packet Page 494 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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2 - 00:10:16
knee
0 - 00:10:17
like that and I walked away and I wasn't like,
2 - 00:10:21
oh fuck it
0 - 00:10:23
like
2 - 00:10:23
that, you know,
0 - 00:10:24
trying to like go at her. I'm
2 - 00:10:25
crazy.
0 - 00:10:26
I just like, and,
2 - 00:10:29
and walk away like, all
1 - 00:10:31
right,
2 - 00:10:32
I'm done.
0 - 00:10:33
Basically, I'm done. I'm
2 - 00:10:34
out of here
0 - 00:10:36
but
AR 246
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 250, Packet Page 495 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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2 - 00:10:39
your
1 - 00:10:39
sandwich and stuff, right? And you guys
0 - 00:10:41
still have.
2 - 00:10:43
Yeah. And I was
0 - 00:10:44
hurt the whole
2 - 00:10:45
time that she treated
0 - 00:10:46
me that way. I thought she was
2 - 00:10:47
my friend.
0 - 00:10:49
Evidently it's clear she's not shall make
2 - 00:10:52
up now,
0 - 00:10:54
you know, whatever. Like I said, she must be seeing one of those 2 - 00:10:58
guys.
0 - 00:10:59
The
2 - 00:10:59
only thing I could think
0 - 00:11:00
AR 247
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 251, Packet Page 496 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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of
2 - 00:11:01
I was, I was
0 - 00:11:04
and, and,
1 - 00:11:05
and
2 - 00:11:06
I
1 - 00:11:06
mean, you keep saying
2 - 00:11:07
that but how,
1 - 00:11:07
what, how does I'm not, I'm not picking that up. How does her seeing one of the security officers?
2 - 00:11:13
What would motivate her to lie about you?
1 - 00:11:15
How does that connect?
0 - 00:11:16
I'm not talking about her to lie about me. I'm talking about the guy. See, her. She's making up all this other
2 - 00:11:22
bullshit.
0 - 00:11:24
You understand?
1 - 00:11:25
I don't
AR 248
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 252, Packet Page 497 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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2 - 00:11:28
me
0 - 00:11:29
for the last three months now. He's trying to say
2 - 00:11:32
with,
0 - 00:11:33
with that statement piggyback on that or whatever. Say that 2 - 00:11:35
I'm,
0 - 00:11:36
I'm uh being respectful. I'm doing this when I come through. That's all 2 - 00:11:40
bullshit.
0 - 00:11:41
What he's saying. He's been asking me for the last three 2 - 00:11:44
months
0 - 00:11:45
since the subway
2 - 00:11:46
incident. See what I'm
0 - 00:11:49
saying?
2 - 00:11:50
That makes sense. I, I heard
0 - 00:11:52
that but yeah, I couldn't
2 - 00:11:53
AR 249
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 253, Packet Page 498 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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wonder
0 - 00:11:53
why he was being the way he was
2 - 00:11:55
to me but it all, it
0 - 00:11:56
click.
2 - 00:11:57
It's
0 - 00:11:57
like, oh he was one of
2 - 00:11:58
the guys
0 - 00:11:59
over
2 - 00:11:59
there.
0 - 00:11:59
He must like that
2 - 00:12:01
now
0 - 00:12:02
it makes sense, right? He would say all these things that are true about coming 2 - 00:12:06
in there multiple,
0 - 00:12:07
you know, how many times people come through their headlights on 2 - 00:12:10
at a guard gate
AR 250
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 254, Packet Page 499 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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0 - 00:12:12
and forget
2 - 00:12:17
just,
1 - 00:12:17
just so we're clear that's not high on my priority
2 - 00:12:20
list.
0 - 00:12:21
I mean,
2 - 00:12:21
I got,
1 - 00:12:22
but
2 - 00:12:23
the
1 - 00:12:23
main, the main thrust of the investigation
2 - 00:12:25
is this episode in the
1 - 00:12:27
subway, you know,
0 - 00:12:29
but I wasn't even like I wasn't
2 - 00:12:32
even
0 - 00:12:32
speaking like towards her or about
AR 251
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 255, Packet Page 500 Speak Transcript & Insights - 2023_0306 Audio Recording 2 - Balthrop Interview

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2 - 00:12:35
her.
0 - 00:12:37
So I wasn't like her asking her. I wasn't even talking about 2 - 00:12:40
her.
0 - 00:12:41
I was talking about because she's nasty. She lies and she's 2 - 00:12:47
Jared though. Listen,
1 - 00:12:48
do you understand? I mean, in hindsight, would you do that again? 0 - 00:12:52
No, I wouldn't do that
2 - 00:12:54
again. And why, why not?
0 - 00:12:58
Because I don't wanna get in
2 - 00:12:58
trouble and I'm gonna retire soon. Hopefully in five years. 1 - 00:13:02
Ok. But also because you wanna
2 - 00:13:05
present a
1 - 00:13:05
professional,
2 - 00:13:06
I present
0 - 00:13:07
AR 252
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Created With By Speak
myself in a, in a professional
2 - 00:13:09
manner.
0 - 00:13:10
I just lost my temper because I thought she was my friend and she talked to me like a piece of crap and said I was a liar and this and that I was upset. Yes. Whatever you wanna send me pay off, is it just courteous
2 - 00:13:28
treatment?
0 - 00:13:29
Is it certainly is a sexual harassment? That, that's,
2 - 00:13:32
that, that was,
0 - 00:13:34
yeah, that was,
2 - 00:13:35
that
0 - 00:13:35
depends on, of course, the policy
2 - 00:13:37
and the way
0 - 00:13:37
that it was
2 - 00:13:40
not my
0 - 00:13:41
intention to section
2 - 00:13:43
anyway, I'm
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0 - 00:13:44
married. I got a little baby girl
2 - 00:13:46
of three. I
0 - 00:13:47
don't have no, I don't
2 - 00:13:48
want
0 - 00:13:48
no,
2 - 00:13:49
no.
1 - 00:13:49
All right. Well, just
0 - 00:13:52
do
1 - 00:13:52
yourself a favor and don't get,
2 - 00:13:54
don't get into any,
1 - 00:13:56
you know, new trouble while this is pending, you know,
2 - 00:14:00
just
0 - 00:14:01
lay, keep a low profile,
1 - 00:14:03
stay under the radar. Let me finish the investigation and definitely don't, you know, 2 - 00:14:09
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bring
1 - 00:14:10
attention to yourself. Are, are you back at the presidio? 0 - 00:14:13
I've been
2 - 00:14:14
there.
0 - 00:14:15
I've never left.
1 - 00:14:17
You never left. Ok. All
2 - 00:14:18
right. And you, have you had any
1 - 00:14:20
interactions with Leslie or with Sanchez
2 - 00:14:23
or Brown
0 - 00:14:24
or any of
1 - 00:14:24
those folks since
2 - 00:14:25
these
1 - 00:14:26
episodes, other
2 - 00:14:27
than
0 - 00:14:29
the last interaction was on Thursday, that's when the
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2 - 00:14:32
met me. What about the, the young
1 - 00:14:35
woman
0 - 00:14:36
that you, um, we, I was upset with her the way she talked 2 - 00:14:41
to me
0 - 00:14:42
and I didn't wanna go back there for a
2 - 00:14:44
while because I,
0 - 00:14:46
I just, I, I, I felt like, you know what I would do all this stuff for her. I gave 2 - 00:14:50
her
0 - 00:14:51
all the time. I give, uh, tips all the time. I give her, 2 - 00:14:57
you
0 - 00:14:57
know, always nice to these girls that work here because they work hard and then for her to treat me like that.
2 - 00:15:03

I, I, I
0 - 00:15:03
don't I was hurt so I said I'm not gonna go back there
2 - 00:15:07
for
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0 - 00:15:07
a
2 - 00:15:07
while
0 - 00:15:08
and I I waited I didn't go
2 - 00:15:10
back there
1 - 00:15:11
for your own benefit. Don't go address Leslie about these things because it's just gonna come right back as a boomerang. You realize that right? 0 - 00:15:20
Yeah, I won't even go over there,
2 - 00:15:22
sir.
0 - 00:15:23
Alright. That's fine. I mean
1 - 00:15:26
yeah, so
2 - 00:15:29
and
1 - 00:15:29
even if you if you think it's a good idea, it's not gonna be a 2 - 00:15:33
good
1 - 00:15:33
idea, you know.
2 - 00:15:34
And so I I
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1 - 00:15:36
I'm not saying you can't go to subway and get a sandwich. I just would not address Leslie on this
2 - 00:15:41
topic.
0 - 00:15:42
No, but I think she talked to two guys
2 - 00:15:45
that one
0 - 00:15:46
got her boyfriend over there and he talked buddy and the because there's a couple I don't 2 - 00:15:50
like that for some
0 - 00:15:51
reason but they weren't there.
2 - 00:15:54
I assure
0 - 00:15:55
you they had walked off
2 - 00:15:56
like as soon
0 - 00:15:57
as they she was accepting their money and they're paying for their sandwich, right? As that came in and they said they got their money as we were talking and they left. He said they don't like us because he said, like
2 - 00:16:08
you
0 - 00:16:09
city and they have, they
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2 - 00:16:11
have issues
0 - 00:16:12
with city employees
2 - 00:16:13
in general.
0 - 00:16:13
They do.
2 - 00:16:14
And that's why I gave you Steve number.
0 - 00:16:17
He said that same guy has been harassing since COVID over two years that brown them every
2 - 00:16:23
time it comes through the
0 - 00:16:25
G and that's why I filed the action on
2 - 00:16:28
him
0 - 00:16:29
without even knowing any of this was
2 - 00:16:32
gonna
0 - 00:16:33
take place.
1 - 00:16:35
All right, let me make sure
0 - 00:16:36
I
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1 - 00:16:36
have that information. So we got Chuck Howard and Howard Electric. He'll be able to tell me about the interactions on that
2 - 00:16:46
one day
1 - 00:16:47
relating to him coming in.
2 - 00:16:49
Yeah. And then
1 - 00:16:52
you also gave me the name and phone number four. Let me find it. 0 - 00:17:05
Steve
1 - 00:17:06
Lang senior
2 - 00:17:06
HVAC technician. Yeah. What is he
1 - 00:17:10
gonna be able to tell me if I, if
2 - 00:17:12
I, he
0 - 00:17:14
works the same hours and he's been there
2 - 00:17:16
20 0 - 00:17:16
two years, just like me. I've been here 20
2 - 00:17:18
three
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0 - 00:17:19
and
2 - 00:17:20
he,
0 - 00:17:20
I, I was telling him
2 - 00:17:21
about this
0 - 00:17:21
guy asking that one guard and he was, I know that guy who, that's the guy that's been me for the last two
2 - 00:17:27
years.
0 - 00:17:29
He,
2 - 00:17:29
he said,
0 - 00:17:29
he said to give you guys his memory. He tell you on several occasions he was a total. 1 - 00:17:36
Ok. All right.
2 - 00:17:38
And
1 - 00:17:38
then what area code
2 - 00:17:39
is? Steve's, you
1 - 00:17:40
gave me 76 oh two oh four. Oh, what area
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0 - 00:17:43
code? 883
2 - 00:17:44
one
1 - 00:17:45
831. Ok. All right. Um, either one of you guys, either you Jared have any additional info you wanna share with me pertinent to this investigation or Ryan. Do you have any questions, comments or concerns you wanna address or, or raise?
0 - 00:18:02
Yeah, I have a couple questions just to clarify.
2 - 00:18:05
Um, have, have
0 - 00:18:06
you ever had
2 - 00:18:07
any other issues
0 - 00:18:09
with any
2 - 00:18:09
of the guards besides? And
0 - 00:18:11
the entire time work there?
2 - 00:18:13
No,
0 - 00:18:14
I have not. And I, I, I used to bring up donuts in the morning 2 - 00:18:19
when I
0 - 00:18:19
bring in the work. I always stop by and have
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2 - 00:18:21
them
0 - 00:18:22
grab a couple of the guys with the, or with army personnel in general. No, nobody in the army
2 - 00:18:28
ever.
0 - 00:18:29
No problem. Did you ever have any other issue with
2 - 00:18:33
any
0 - 00:18:34
subway employees?
2 - 00:18:35
No,
0 - 00:18:36
never
2 - 00:18:37
worked
0 - 00:18:37
with her besides that one. I haven't had any incident with anybody anywhere 2 - 00:18:43
and
0 - 00:18:43
I think you covered this, but with regard to going through the back door, no one ever told you to go
2 - 00:18:49
not to go through
0 - 00:18:50
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there and it was why there was never any discussion about, hey, 2 - 00:18:54
you know, you guys should
0 - 00:18:55
make sure you the fact that her, if her boss
2 - 00:18:58
knows
0 - 00:18:58
about this, he, he would tell her that it's
2 - 00:19:01
ok for me to go through there any time if you,
0 - 00:19:04
who told you that
2 - 00:19:06
her
0 - 00:19:06
boss, if her boss knew the
1 - 00:19:10
person below.
0 - 00:19:13
Yeah, he's the owner of Subway, you
2 - 00:19:15
say
1 - 00:19:16
or something. What was the name of the person?
0 - 00:19:18
The owner, his name is David. I think uh, he's the owner of Subway and she works for him.

And uh I still is their landlord, his landlord. But David would tell her that I can go through there any
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2 - 00:19:31
time I want
0 - 00:19:32
if he knew because,
1 - 00:19:34
you
0 - 00:19:35
know, tell
2 - 00:19:35
her meaning
0 - 00:19:37
you're at, would
1 - 00:19:39
it say in the future
0 - 00:19:40
or what
2 - 00:19:40
he
1 - 00:19:41
has said to you in the
2 - 00:19:42
past?
0 - 00:19:43
Oh, no. He, he's never had a problem with this
2 - 00:19:45
coming through any door
0 - 00:19:46
there, David. And he would tell her if he knew this was going on, he would tell her that the, that the building maintenance group can come through any time they AR 265
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2 - 00:19:55
want.
1 - 00:19:56
Ok. Go ahead.
0 - 00:19:59
You still working on something. And I just have one final question. I think you covered this, but I wanna clarify it
2 - 00:20:05
regarding
0 - 00:20:06
the protocol. You mentioned changing of the protocol of how you bring contractors onto the base. Did anyone tell you that the protocol
2 - 00:20:15
has been changed
0 - 00:20:16
because you didn't find, did you
2 - 00:20:17
find out about
0 - 00:20:18
it? I found
2 - 00:20:18
out when he was screaming
0 - 00:20:19
at me?
2 - 00:20:20
Yeah,
0 - 00:20:21
that's when I found out the protocol
2 - 00:20:22
changed. Ok.

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0 - 00:20:24
And so we went and followed the new
2 - 00:20:25
protocol and then
0 - 00:20:27
he was not even though he told him he was when we came back and he said it was repeated.
2 - 00:20:35
We, we
0 - 00:20:35
never tried to go through their approval
2 - 00:20:39
of a and
0 - 00:20:40
he wasn't there when
2 - 00:20:41
we went, when we went and went through
0 - 00:20:43
the other guy
2 - 00:20:44
was, and
0 - 00:20:44
you said you worked there for 23 years and you never had any complaints. Like, do you have any disciplinary actions about them? No, not ever. First time for 2 - 00:20:56
anything,
0 - 00:21:02
right? That, that's all I have.
1 - 00:21:05
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All right guys, I appreciate you. Thank you very much, Jared. It was nice meeting you. I apologize. It was under these uh circumstances
0 - 00:21:13
but
1 - 00:21:13
um, we'll, you'll get through this. No
0 - 00:21:15
problem. All I would
1 - 00:21:16
expect. And Brian, it was
2 - 00:21:18
good seeing you
1 - 00:21:18
again.
0 - 00:21:19
Thank you as
1 - 00:21:19
always for your professionalism, I'm gonna turn
2 - 00:21:24
off
0 - 00:21:24
the quarter
2 - 00:21:25
now at
1 - 00:21:25
3 26 PM.

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Insights:

Brands - 8.0%
Keywords - 48.0%
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Ordinals - 6.0%
People - 22.0%
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Products - 4.0%
Times - 8.0%
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Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 276, Packet Page 521 1 IN THE MATTER OF ARBITRATION BETWEEN
2 3
4 LIUNA LOCAL 792, )
)
5 Union, )
)
6 and )
)
7 CITY OF MONTEREY, )
)
8 Employer. )
)
9 Re: Termination of Jerod )
Balthrop )
10 )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
11 12
13 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
14 April 24, 2024
15 16
17 18
19 20
21 22
23 24 Margaret M. Bourgeois, CSR No. 11569
1130202
25 AR 273
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 277, Packet Page 522

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 IN THE MATTER OF ARBITRATION BETWEEN
2 3
4 LIUNA LOCAL 792, )
)
5 Union, )
)
6 and )
)
7 CITY OF MONTEREY, )
)
8 Employer. )
)
9 Re: Termination of Jerod )
Balthrop )
10 )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
11 12
13 14 VIDEOCONFERENCE
15 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
16 17 April 24, 2024
18 9:12 a.m.
19 20
21 22
23 Margaret M. Bourgeois, CSR No. 11569
24 Magna Legal Services
(866) 624-6221
25 www.MagnaLS.com
1 AR 274
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
(All parties appeared via videoconference.)
2 3 The Arbitrator:
4 Andrea Dooley, ESQ.
[email protected]
5 6 For City of Monterey:
7 Sloan Sakai
Arcelia Hurtado, ESQ.
8 2200 Powell Street, Suite 450
Emeryville, California 94608
9 (415) 640-3735
[email protected]
10 11 For Union:
12 Mastagni Holstedt, APC
Garrett Porter, ESQ.
13 1912 I Street
Sacramento, California 95811
14 (916) 446-4692
[email protected]
15 16 Also present:
17 Jerod Balthrop
Allyson Hauck
18 19
20 21
22 23
24 25
2 AR 275
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 I N D E X
2 3 OPENING STATEMENTS PAGE
4 By Ms. Hurtado 13
5 By Mr. Porter 18
6 7 WITNESS PAGE
8 CALLED BY CITY
9 JOE ROSE
10 DIRECT (BY MS. HURTADO) 28
11 CROSS (BY MR. PORTER) 62
12 REDIRECT (BY MS. HURTADO) 74
13 RECROSS (BY MR. PORTER) 76
14 15 JESUS SANCHEZ
16 DIRECT (BY MS. HURTADO) 79
17 CROSS (BY MR. PORTER) 93
18 REDIRECT (BY MS. HURTADO) 96
19 20 ANDREA RENNY
21 DIRECT (BY MS. HURTADO) 98
22 CROSS (BY MR. PORTER) 118
23 REDIRECT (BY MS. HURTADO) 127
24 EXAMINATION (BY THE ARBITRATOR) 128
25 CONTINUED REDIRECT (BY MS. HURTADO) 129
3 AR 276
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 INDEX (Continued...)
2 3 WITNESS PAGE
4 CALLED BY UNION
5 JEROD BALTHROP
6 DIRECT (BY MR. PORTER) 134
7 CONTINUED DIRECT (BY MR. PORTER) 160
8 CROSS (BY MS. HURTADO) 162
9 REDIRECT (BY MR. PORTER) 191
10 11 ***
12 13
14 15
16 17
18 19
20 21
22 23
24 25
4 AR 277
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Balthrop/City of Monterey
2 Wednesday, April 24, 2024
3 4 INDEX TO EXHIBITS
5 JOINT DESCRIPTION RECV'D
6 JX 1 Electrician Job Description 9
7 JX 2 MOU-GEM 9
8 JX 3 Notice of Administrative Leave 9
with Pay and Proposed Discipline -
9 Termination
10 JX 4 Notice of Proposed Termination - 9
10-13-23
11 JX 5 MCC 25-14.02 9
12 JX 6 MCC 25-14.06 9
13 JX 7 MCC 25-3.03 9
14 JX 8 City of Monterey Standard Operating 9
15 Procedures
16 JX 9 Notice of Investigation and Request 9
to Schedule Admin Interview 2-21-23
17 JX 10 Factual Stipulations 9
18 19
20 ***
21 22
23 24
25 5
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Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 282, Packet Page 527

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 INDEX TO EXHIBITS (Cont...)
2 3 UNION DESCRIPTION RECV'D
4 UX A October 25, 2023 Note from 145
Dr. William Khieu
5 UX B City of Monterey Public Works - 133
6 Belt Buckle Awards 2005 and Photo
of Award (Balthrop)
7 UX C Defense Language Institute Foreign 133
8 Language Center - Certificate of
Appreciation
9 UX D U.S. Army Garrison Presidio of 133
10 Monterey - Commendation
11 UX E Lone Star Electric - Donnie Vickers 157
letter re: Entry
12 UX F Evaluation 2013 157
13 14 CITY DESCRIPTION RECV'D
15 CX 1 Rose Investigative Report 22
16 CX 2 Balthrop Harassment Training Record 23
17 CX 3 E-mail from Sanchez to Dwight 23
18 CX 4 Final Notice of Termination 24
19 CX 5 Skelly Hearing Transcript; 10-27-23 27
20 CX 6 Jerod Balthrop Audio Interview and 27
Transcript
21 CX 7 Leslie Fraide Audio Interview and 27
22 Transcript
23 CX 8 Incident Report by Julius Brown, 24
2-7-23
24 25 ***
6 AR 279
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 283, Packet Page 528

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 REMOTE TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
2 WEDNESDAY, APRIL 24, 2024; 9:12 A.M.
3 4 THE ARBITRATOR: Good morning, everyone. My
5 name is Andrea Dooley; I'm the arbitrator and
6 factfinder in this case. This is the appeal of the
7 discharge of -- please correct me if I'm wrong. Is it 8 Jerod or Jerod?
9 MR. BALTHROP: It's Jerod, ma'am.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Jerod Balthrop.
11 MR. BALTHROP: Yes, ma'am.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: From his employment with the
13 City of Monterey.
14 MR. BALTHROP: Correct.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: Would the City of Monterey
16 make their appearances and introduce who's with you, 17 please.
18 MS. HURTADO: Yes. Good morning. Arcelia
19 Hurtado. A-r-c-e-l-i-a, last name, H-u-r-t-a-d-o, for 20 the City of Monterey. And I'm here with my colleague 21 Allyson Hauck.
22 THE ARBITRATOR: Great. Thank you.
23 And for the Union?
24 MR. PORTER: For the Union, my name is
25 Garrett Porter, G-a-r-r-e-t-t, P-o-r-t-e-r, and I'm
7 AR 280
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 here with my client Jerod Balthrop.
2 THE ARBITRATOR: Great. Thank you both.
3 In off-the-record discussions, the parties
4 have stipulated that I am the -- as the factfinder, I 5 have the authority to issue a non-binding fact finder's 6 report and recommendations to the City of Monterey. Do 7 you both agree with that?
8 MS. HURTADO: Yes.
9 MR. PORTER: Yes.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: And the parties stipulate
11 that the issue before me is is there just cause for the 12 discipline imposed on Mr. Balthrop. Is that correct? 13 MS. HURTADO: Yes.
14 MR. PORTER: Yes.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: And the question of remedy
16 is reserved to the City of Monterey city manager. And 17 if on appeal, the city council pursuant to the
18 agreement and the City ordinances. Is that correct?
19 MS. HURTADO: Yes, that's correct.
20 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm trying to decide whether
21 we want to submit these factual -- if you want me to 22 read these factual stipulations or if I should just
23 E-mail them to Margaret or will we make this an
24 exhibit. Do you have a preference?
25 MS. HURTADO: Yes, I think it should be an
8 AR 281
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 exhibit. A joint exhibit. I just neglected to send it 2 with the first batch and I apologize.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: No problem. What is the
4 number next for Joint exhibits?
5 MS. HURTADO: It would be JX 10.
6 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Have we sent exhibits
7 to Margaret yet?
8 MS. HURTADO: No, but I will do that during a
9 break.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: So the parties have
11 stipulated, as indicated, to 10 Joint exhibits and
12 those are received.
13 (Joint Exhibits 1-10 received into evidence)
14 THE ARBITRATOR: Quickly, Joint Exhibit 1 is
15 the electrician job description.
16 Joint Exhibit 2 is the Memorandum of
17 Understanding between the City of Monterey and the
18 General Employees of Monterey. They're affiliated with 19 Laborers International Union of North America, United 20 Public Employees of California, Local 792 AFL-CIO.
21 Joint Exhibit 3 is the Notice of
22 Administrative Leave With Pay dated October 13th, 2023. 23 Joint Exhibit 4 is the Notice of Proposed
24 Discipline Termination dated October 13th, 2023.
25 Joint Exhibit 5 is the Monterey City Code
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1 Section 25-14.02, Reasons For Discipline.
2 Joint Exhibit 6 is Monterey City code Section
3 25-14.06, Notice of Proposed Disciplinary Action.
4 Joint Exhibit 7 is Monterey City Code Section
5 25-3.03, Harassment/discrimination/retaliation/abusive 6 conduct/bullying policy.
7 Joint Exhibit 8 is the City of Monterey
8 Standard Operating Procedures dated August of 2016.
9 Joint Exhibit 9 is the Notice of
10 Investigation and Request to Schedule Investigative
11 interview dated February 21, 2023.
12 And then Joint Exhibit 10 is the stipulation
13 of the parties regarding record on appeal.
14 I hope I properly stated all that. Is that
15 correct?
16 MS. HURTADO: Yes.
17 MR. PORTER: Yes.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: We have a couple of other
19 stipulations of fact that shorten things up. I'm just 20 going to read them into the record.
21 Stipulation of Fact Number 1. Mr. Balthrop's
22 date of hire is June 2000.
23 Number 2, position/title/duties are
24 electrician performing maintenance services for the
25 United States Army located at the Presidio -- that's a 10 AR 283
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1 capital P -- of Monterey.
2 Stipulation of Fact Number 3. Date of
3 termination is November 8th, 2023.
4 And Stipulation of Fact Number 4. Supervisor
5 at the time of the termination was Christopher Dwight, 6 D-w-i-g-h-t.
7 Is that correct? Stipulated.
8 MS. HURTADO: So stipulated.
9 MR. PORTER: Yes.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Great. And then the final
11 other stipulation is that the parties intend to do oral 12 opening arguments and closing via post-hearing brief. 13 And I think we're at that stage. We're here for the
14 opening arguments, unless I missed anything. Does
15 anyone have any other procedural matters before we get 16 started?
17 MS. HURTADO: No. Other than I do need the
18 court reporter's E-mail address so I can forward the 19 exhibits.
20 MR. PORTER: Yes. And one more thing I would
21 say is earlier this morning, just probably a half hour 22 ago, I sent an E-mail to City counsel and to yourself, 23 Arbitrator Dooley, of a few Union exhibits. And I will 24 also send those to the court reporter.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: Margaret, do you want to put
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1 your E-mail in the chat? I did receive those.
2 Ms. Hurtado, did you receive those as well?
3 MS. HURTADO: I did receive them and we will
4 have some objections when the time comes.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: That's fine. One thing --
6 just what I will add is I do like to take breaks
7 mid-morning for the court reporter's comfort. If you
8 need additional breaks, please let me know.
9 If you need a breakout room open so you can
10 caucus with your party representative, that's fine as 11 well. Happy to do that. I am hoping to go and do a
12 late lunch; maybe starting at 1:00 or 1:15, unless
13 we're completed by then. In which case, I will take
14 two breaks if needed, just for everyone's comfort and 15 to get a snack. I just have a call I need to make
16 around 1:30, so I just want to make time for that.
17 (Interruption in the proceedings)
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Off the record.
19 (Discussion off the record)
20 THE ARBITRATOR: If there's nothing further,
21 then I would invite the Employer to make your opening 22 statement.
23 MS. HURTADO: Thank you very much.
24 //
25 //
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1 OPENING STATEMENT
2 MS. HURTADO: So good morning again. The
3 evidence will show that the City of Monterey had just 4 cause to terminate Mr. Balthrop from his position as an 5 electrician at the Monterey Presidio, which is an
6 active Army installation, because in December of 2022 7 he entered the Subway sandwich restaurant, which is
8 located on the Presidio. He entered that restaurant
9 via the back door.
10 Ms. Leslie Fraide, who is the restaurant
11 manager was working alone at the time. She had just
12 mopped the floor, and she left the back door open and 13 the front door open so that the crossbreeze would help 14 the floor dry faster. And also present in the
15 restaurant was Jesus Sanchez, Lieutenant Sanchez, who's 16 a security guard employed by the Department of Defense 17 who worked at the Presidio and who was there getting a 18 sandwich on his lunch break. His partner was next door 19 at the Domino's restaurant.
20 Ms. Fraide and Mr. Sanchez told the
21 investigator in this case, Joe Rose, that when
22 Ms. Fraide saw Mr. Balthrop enter through the back
23 door, she politely told him to use the front door next 24 time because she had been reprimanded by a person named 25 Aysel Gan, for leaving the back door open.
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1 Now, Ms. Gan is the AAFES manager at the
2 Presidio. And what that stands for, it's an acronym
3 for Army and Air Force Exchange Services which
4 coordinates basically the provision of food and
5 merchandise to military personnel and others on U.S.
6 Department of Defense installations.
7 So Mr. Balthrop responded that he had already
8 come in through the back door. He didn't say okay. He 9 said I already came in. According to Lieutenant
10 Sanchez, Mr. Balthrop also said that he had keys and he 11 could get in anyway, regardless of whether the back
12 door was open or not.
13 Mr. Balthrop was in uniform. He was working
14 at the time. And so Ms. Fraide said that if he did not 15 have a work order, he should use the front door, per 16 Ms. Gan's orders. Mr. Balthrop sarcastically replied 17 that he did not -- that he did have a work order and 18 was there checking the lights. He then looked up at
19 the ceiling and said something to the effect that the 20 lights were fine and he continued walking through.
21 Ms. Fraide knew he did not have a work order
22 and felt that he was just walking through the back door 23 because it was convenient and to get a sandwich because 24 he didn't want to go through the front door. She again 25 asked that next time he go through the front door
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1 because Ms. Gan did not want people entering through
2 the back door.
3 At that point, Mr. Balthrop responded, "Tell
4 Aysel she can suck it," while slapping his arms down in 5 a V shape towards his groin. Ms. Fraide described that 6 Mr. Balthrop threw his arms up followed by his body,
7 and once his arms swung down, his body swung up. His
8 lower body swung up. She explained that his arms
9 definitely swung towards his genitals and lower hip
10 area as he lifted up his lower body area as he said, 11 quote, tell Aysel she can suck it, end quote.
12 Ms. Fraide said she was embarrassed. She's a
13 younger woman -- I believe she's 19 years old -- and 14 that she knew right away that it was a dirty comment. 15 Mr. Sanchez -- Lieutenant Sanchez then stepped in. He 16 witnessed all of this. He stepped in and he said,
17 look, man. She's asking you nicely. She doesn't want 18 to get in trouble.
19 Ms. Fraide also confirms that Lieutenant
20 Sanchez said something to that effect. But
21 Mr. Balthrop ignored them both and proceeded to order 22 his sandwich as if nothing happened.
23 Lieutenant Sanchez, who was present and
24 observed everything, made a complaint to Mr. Balthrop's 25 supervisor, Mr. Christopher Dwight via E-mail in
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1 January of 2023. The City of Monterey assigned outside 2 investigator Joe Rose, an attorney, to investigate this 3 complaint.
4 Investigator Rose will tell you that he found
5 the complaint at the Subway restaurant was
6 substantiated. He found by a preponderance of the
7 evidence that Mr. Balthrop's conduct at the Subway
8 restaurant violated multiple City of Monterey personnel 9 codes, as well as standard operating procedures for the 10 public works department, including discourteous
11 treatment of the public under Monterey City Code
12 Chapter 25, Article 14, Section 25-14.02, Subdivision 13 O, and the standard operating procedures for the Public 14 Works Department at Pages 5 through 6.
15 He also found that he failed to perform work
16 in a satisfactory manner under Subdivision D of that 17 same code section, and inefficiency or inexcusable
18 neglect of duty under Subdivision E of that same code 19 section.
20 His conduct at the Subway restaurant also
21 violated the City's harassment, discrimination,
22 retaliation, abusive conduct and bullying policy, which 23 is Chapter 25, Article 3, Section 25-3.03.
24 Finally, Investigator Rose also found that
25 Mr. Balthrop was untruthful during his two-hour
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1 investigative interview on March 6th, 2023. He found
2 that Mr. Balthrop at first adamantly denied that the
3 incident happened. He denied that the security guard, 4 Lieutenant Sanchez, was even present during the
5 interaction with Ms. Fraide. And then he finally
6 admitted after taking a break to confer with his union 7 rep, that he did say the words, quote, tell Aysel she 8 can suck it, end quote, but claimed that he only
9 motioned towards his knee, not towards his genitals.
10 And that's -- being untruthful is also a violation of 11 Monterey City Code Chapter 25, Article 14, Section
12 25-14.02, Subdivision H.
13 You will finally also hear from Andrea Renny,
14 who's a public works director and Skelly officer, that 15 at the Skelly hearing, Mr. Balthrop did not deny that 16 he said the words, "Tell Aysel she can suck it," but 17 again denied that he gestured towards his genitals. He 18 presented a doctor's note claiming that due to his body 19 build -- basically short arms and larger midsection -- 20 that he was unable to touch his genitals in the way the 21 two witnesses described.
22 He apologized for his conduct, but the City
23 found that his apology was too little and too late in 24 light of his continued efforts to minimize what was
25 very egregious and offensive conduct, as described by 17 AR 290
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1 two witnesses.
2 Accordingly, Ms. Renny upheld his termination
3 and we are requesting that you make the factual
4 determinations necessary to uphold it as well.
5 Thank you.
6 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you.
7 Mr. Porter.
8 MR. PORTER: Yes. Thank you.
9 10 OPENING STATEMENT
11 MR. PORTER: Good morning. Mr. Balthrop has
12 worked for the City of Monterey as an electrician for 13 well over 20 years without any other discipline, other 14 than the matter before you today. No discipline
15 indicates that there is not some sort of pattern of the 16 admitted behavior or any indication that Mr. Balthrop 17 is incapable of adjusting his behavior or even, given 18 an opportunity, to adjust his behavior.
19 This matter being heard today is about, as
20 City counsel said, an interaction Mr. Balthrop had with 21 Ms. Fraide in a Subway restaurant located at the
22 Presidio in Monterey in December of 2022 and whether 23 Mr. Balthrop took accountability for his actions.
24 The City will present evidence, as you heard,
25 and argue that Mr. Balthrop -- or rather argue as to 18 AR 291
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1 what Mr. Balthrop has already admitted at both the
2 fact-finding interview and at the Skelly hearing. That 3 he violated the City's anti-harassment policy.
4 The City will also argue that the
5 egregiousness of Mr. Balthrop telling the Subway
6 manager, Ms. Fraide, that "Aysel Gan can suck it"
7 negates the decades of good work and positive
8 interactions Mr. Balthrop has had as a City employee
9 and excuses the City from justifying why progressive
10 discipline is not being utilized here.
11 While the Union will present evidence that
12 Mr. Balthrop was not intending to offend Ms. Fraide and 13 meant "suck it" to equate to Ms. Gan being bossy or a 14 busybody or that she can take a hike, kick rocks, or 15 something to that effect. Mr. Balthrop has
16 acknowledged and now fully understands that his
17 intention does not negate the fact that Ms. Fraide was 18 offended by the comment and it was inappropriate.
19 Further, the City will present evidence of
20 routine anti-harassment training which Mr. Balthrop had 21 apparently completed over the years with the City. The 22 Union's position is that routine training does not
23 excuse an employer's obligation to utilize progressive 24 discipline over a single comment made during
25 Mr. Balthrop's interactions with Ms. Fraide.
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1 Additionally, Ms. Fraide and Mr. Balthrop
2 have been interacting for well over two years and have 3 had numerous positive and appropriate interactions over 4 the numerous times Mr. Balthrop had gone into the
5 Subway restaurant and ordered a sandwich.
6 Lastly, the City will present evidence and
7 argue that Mr. Balthrop was dishonest or failed to take 8 accountability for his actions throughout this
9 disciplinary process. However, the evidence will show 10 that as soon as Mr. Balthrop was able to recall the
11 specifics of his interactions with Ms. Fraide during 12 the middle of his fact-finding interview, he has
13 continuously taken accountability for the actions that 14 he can recall.
15 While there may be differences in details
16 that Mr. Balthrop recalls and the other witnesses
17 recall as to whether or not he just touched his hips or 18 made some kind of specific gesture in some specific
19 way, those differences don't surmount to some kind of 20 dishonesty or some kind of failing to take
21 accountability.
22 Looking at Mr. Balthrop's work over the
23 decades and having no blemishes, him being given
24 various awards and positive evaluations according to 25 his service and interactions with the public, the City 20 AR 293
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1 has no fair reason to doubt Mr. Balthrop's commitment 2 to maintain professionalism and adherence to the
3 policies.
4 For these reasons, we ask that you find that
5 the City did not have just cause for termination.
6 Thank you.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you.
8 Okay. Ms. Hurtado, it looks like eight
9 Employer exhibits. Is that correct? Or is there
10 additional?
11 MS. HURTADO: Yes. That is correct.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Mr. Porter, I don't
13 know if you've had an opportunity to look at them,
14 but -- we will get started with the witnesses. But if 15 you don't object to the receipt of a particular
16 exhibit, you can let us know so that Ms. Hurtado
17 doesn't have to lay a lot of foundation.
18 As I said, I'm inclined to admit documents
19 that are not -- that are sort of self-identifying,
20 particularly, which are not objected to. So that she 21 doesn't have to do a lot of the table-setting, so to 22 speak.
23 MR. PORTER: Okay.
24 THE ARBITRATOR: Ms. Hurtado, do you want to
25 call your first witness?
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1 MS. HURTADO: Yes. Thank you. The City of
2 Monterey will call Joe Rose.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Rose, could you turn on
4 your video, please.
5 THE WITNESS: Yes, I will do that. I'm
6 having difficulty --
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Off the record while you do
8 that.
9 (Discussion off the record)
10 THE ARBITRATOR: In off-the-record
11 discussions, Mr. Porter has indicated that the Union 12 doesn't have an objection -- at least to the
13 admissibility, I presume, of the -- of City 1, which is 14 the Rose investigative report, and I'm going to admit 15 that.
16 (City Exhibit 1 received into evidence)
17 MS. HURTADO: That's including the
18 attachments? The exhibits?
19 THE ARBITRATOR: Yes. If they were part of
20 the report, incorporated by reference, then they're
21 admitted.
22 MS. HURTADO: Thank you.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Are those reflected in the
24 other exhibits or are they different documents?
25 MS. HURTADO: Some of them are. So City 2 is
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1 one of the attachments, which is the Balthrop
2 harassment training record.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay.
4 MS. HURTADO: And City 3 is the E-mail
5 complaint from Lieutenant Sanchez to Christopher Dwight 6 is also an attachment.
7 I think those are the only ones.
8 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay.
9 MS. HURTADO: And some codes, but those we
10 submitted jointly.
11 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. So because those are
12 exhibits that are also attached to C1, I'm going to
13 admit City's 2 and 3.
14 (City Exhibits 2 and 3 received into
15 evidence)
16 THE ARBITRATOR: And, Mr. Porter, this goes
17 for both of you. The admission of documents does not 18 strip you of your right to argue about their relevance, 19 probative value, hearsay and so forth.
20 C4 is the Final Notice of Termination.
21 Which, are there any objections to the receipt of the 22 Final Notice of Termination?
23 MR. PORTER: No. Not at this time.
24 MS. HURTADO: Okay. And then that refers two
25 attachments, so I'm going to admit 4. That includes
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1 attachments.
2 (City Exhibit 4 received into evidence)
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Does that reflect any other
4 exhibits that have not already been admitted?
5 MS. HURTADO: Yes. One moment. It does
6 refer to other exhibits, but they've already been
7 jointly agreed upon.
8 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay.
9 MS. HURTADO: Or admitted, at this point.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Now, Mr. Porter has
11 raised objections to other documents which may be
12 reflective of -- looks like there's audio interviews of 13 Mr. Balthrop. Ms. Fraide. There's a Skelly hearing
14 transcript. I don't know what the incident report is, 15 but those are --
16 MS. HURTADO: I should say -- I'm sorry. Go
17 ahead.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: No, you go ahead and tell me
19 what you want to do with these.
20 MS. HURTADO: Sure. The incident report by
21 Julius Brown dated 2-7-23 is City's 8. This is also
22 attached to the investigative report.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. So that's admitted.
24 (City Exhibit 8 received into evidence)
25 MS. HURTADO: Okay. Thank you. And the
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1 Skelly hearing transcript. Andrea Renny, who is the
2 Skelly hearing officer, will be one of our witnesses
3 today. So I can lay foundation with her.
4 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay.
5 MS. HURTADO: The audio interviews, I -- go
6 ahead. Were you going to say something?
7 THE ARBITRATOR: No. Go ahead.
8 MS. HURTADO: The audio interviews of
9 Mr. Balthrop and Ms. Fraide, I can lay the foundation 10 with Mr. Rose. And I intend to play portions of those 11 for you this morning. Obviously they're prior recorded 12 statements and I think they would be admissible.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Well, they're admissible for
14 the purpose of supporting the conclusion or -- yes.
15 Supporting the conclusion that Mr. Rose did a thorough 16 investigation.
17 The audio itself is hearsay, though. Were
18 the -- were the witnesses subject to cross in the
19 investigative process or at the Skelly hearing?
20 MS. HURTADO: No.
21 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. So I'll admit them,
22 but they're hearsay.
23 MS. HURTADO: Well, and my understanding is
24 Mr. Balthrop is going to testify as well.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: In that case, you know,
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1 anything is usable for impeachment purposes. I'm not
2 depriving you of your right to use them. I'm just
3 noting that they're hearsay.
4 MS. HURTADO: Yes. I understand.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay.
6 MS. HURTADO: And Ms. Fraide may be able to
7 join us this afternoon as well. She is working today. 8 So that is one of the difficulties in bringing her in 9 in person. But if we can take her out of order. I
10 don't want to delay the proceedings, but if we can take 11 her out of order, she may be available after -- in the 12 afternoon. After she gets off work.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. So I'm going to
14 reserve on 5, 6 and 7 at this time. Unless Mr. Porter 15 wants to just, you know, doesn't have any objections to 16 their receipt.
17 MR. PORTER: No. My objections are the same
18 as your concerns, Arbitrator. That these would be
19 hearsay. Even Mr. Balthrop's prior statement is also 20 still hearsay. But, again, they can be used for
21 impeachment purposes or inasmuch as administrative
22 hearsay is admissible.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Then I'm going to change my
24 ruling. I'll admit, 5, 6 and 7 and subject to argument 25 and however we end up finding them used in the
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1 proceeding. So the City's exhibits are admitted.
2 (Exhibits 5, 6 and 7 received into evidence)
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Porter, you've done
4 yours. So Mr. Rose is back.
5 THE WITNESS: I moved to my laptop.
6 THE ARBITRATOR: Great. Good morning. I'm
7 Andrea Dooley, if you weren't here earlier when I
8 introduced myself earlier. I'm the factfinder in this 9 matter.
10 Can you raise your right hand.
11 (Whereupon Joe Rose was sworn in by the
12 Arbitrator)
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you. You can put your
14 hand down. You may have testified before like this.
15 I'll just remind you that with a court reporter, I need 16 you to speak loudly and clearly and slowly. And I need 17 you to give only verbal answers because she can only 18 take down words.
19 Please wait for the attorneys to finish their
20 questions before you answer, and they will show you the 21 same courtesy, as she can only take down one person at 22 a time.
23 Please only refer to documents that are --
24 you're referred to by one of the attorneys so that none 25 of your personal records, calendars, notes become
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1 exhibits. I don't think I have any other admonition.
2 I would just say one more thing. Margaret
3 and I have worked together before so she knows I'm fine 4 with her interrupting to slow people down, ask them not 5 to interrupt and so forth. So she continues to have
6 that sort of secondary authority to make sure that we 7 have a clear record.
8 Okay. Whenever you're ready, go ahead.
9 MS. HURTADO: Thank you.
10 11 DIRECT EXAMINATION
12 BY MS. HURTADO:
13 Q. Good morning, Mr. Rose.
14 A. Good morning.
15 Q. Thank you for being here. Before we get to
16 the facts of the case, I'd like to get a little bit
17 into your background. Is that okay?
18 A. Of course.
19 Q. Who is your employer?
20 A. I'm self-employed. I have a law practice.
21 Rose Law, a professional corporation.
22 Q. And how long have you been so employed?
23 A. Since November 2004.
24 Q. Is it part of your job to conduct
25 investigations for employers?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And did you conduct any investigations for
3 the City of Monterey in 2023?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Did you conduct an investigation beginning in
6 February of 2023 for the City of Monterey Public Works 7 Department?
8 A. I did.
9 Q. Okay. And who first contacted you about that
10 investigation?
11 A. I was contacted first on January 31, 2023 by
12 Brette Neal, the director of human resources.
13 Q. And when did you begin investigating the
14 complaint?
15 A. The following day. I opened the
16 investigation, and then I conducted interviews in
17 February and March. Reviewed documents and then
18 finalized my report in September of that same year.
19 Q. And is the -- is this the matter that we're
20 discussing today, the Jerod Balthrop matter?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Okay. Thank you. So I'm going to show you a
23 document. Bear with me for a second as I pull it up. 24 I'm going to share my screen.
25 MS. HURTADO: Do I have the ability to do
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1 that, Arbitrator?
2 THE ARBITRATOR: You should be able to now.
3 I apologize. Go ahead.
4 MS. HURTADO: I do not. Oh, here it is.
5 Okay. Got it.
6 BY MS. HURTADO:
7 Q. All right. So let me pull up a document that
8 we have premarked City's Exhibit Number 1. Do you see 9 that?
10 A. I do. I'm seeing the cover page to my
11 investigative report in the 2023 investigation of
12 Mr. Balthrop.
13 Q. Okay. And did you prepare that report around
14 September 13th of 2023? I believe that's the date on 15 there.
16 A. I did. I prepared it in the time intervening
17 between the investigative interviews and the time that 18 the report was finalized in September.
19 Q. Okay. And your report is -- let's see.
20 About 90 pages including exhibits. Is that correct?
21 A. That sounds about right. I thought it was
22 about 80 pages, but I won't quibble with you.
23 Q. It just says 90 down here at the bottom, as
24 you can see.
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. I'm going to stop sharing for a second now.
2 Let me see. There we go. All right. So what was the
3 purpose of the report?
4 A. The purpose of the report was to chronicle my
5 factual findings for the City of Monterey pursuant to 6 the City code, in particular the section of the Code
7 that you referenced earlier, basically the sexual
8 harassment prevention, discrimination, retaliation,
9 bullying and abusive conduct prevention policy.
10 Q. Okay. On Pages 5 to 6 of your report, you
11 list the people that you interviewed. Is that the list 12 of all of the people that you interviewed for the
13 report?
14 A. Yes. I don't have the report on the screen,
15 but I recall I listed all of the people I interviewed. 16 And I didn't list -- I did not interview anyone who was 17 not listed.
18 Q. Okay. So according to your report, you
19 interviewed Lieutenant Sanchez. Jesus Sanchez?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And Leslie Fraide?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Mr. Balthrop?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And a person named Charles "Chuck" Howard.
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1 Correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. Okay. Now, do you remember your interview
4 with Ms. Fraide?
5 A. I do.
6 Q. Okay. Do you remember when you interviewed
7 her?
8 A. I believe it was mid-February 2023. I
9 interviewed her by phone. It took about 30 minutes.
10 Q. Okay. Did you record that interview?
11 A. I did.
12 Q. Okay. Did Ms. Fraide tell you about an
13 incident that happened at the Subway restaurant in
14 December of 2022?
15 A. She did.
16 Q. What did she tell you?
17 A. She said she was working in her usual post at
18 the Subway in the Presidio. The Presidio of Monterey, 19 which is a military installation. She was there
20 working. Also present was Jesus Sanchez, a security
21 officer with the Presidio and she was speaking with
22 him. Had the front door open and the back door open. 23 She was mopping the floors and Mr. Balthrop entered the 24 building through the back door.
25 Q. Okay.
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1 A. Do you want me to continue?
2 Q. Yes, please.
3 MR. PORTER: Real quick. I would like to
4 place an objection that this is hearsay. And I want it 5 noted that these comments would be only used for
6 administrative hearsay.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: I mean, this is hearsay, and
8 I'm not sure what you mean by administrative hearsay. 9 Is it admissible --
10 MR. PORTER: I'll just make a hearsay
11 objection, then, regarding Mr. Rose's comments about 12 what Ms. Fraide told him.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Yeah. I guess, Ms. Hurtado,
14 I'm curious why -- I mean, is there some basis upon
15 which I can rely on these statements for the truth of 16 them? I mean, sometimes that's included in an
17 agreement or included in the city code or something. 18 I mean, I'm obviously not bound by the rules
19 of evidence, but in terms of fact-finding, I typically 20 don't rely on hearsay for the truth of the underlying 21 assertion.
22 MS. HURTADO: Yes, I understand that. And as
23 I said, we intend to bring in Ms. Fraide to testify. 24 At this point, I'm just trying to lay some foundation 25 if I can.
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1 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. So I'm going to admit
2 this for the purpose of this is what he learned and put 3 into his report. But ultimately what this gets us to
4 is that the City had a report -- investigative report 5 that was the basis for the notice of discipline.
6 MS. HURTADO: Yes. Thank you.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Go ahead.
8 BY MS. HURTADO:
9 Q. And so what did she tell you after
10 Mr. Balthrop entered the Subway restaurant through the 11 rear door? What did she tell you after that?
12 A. Ms. Fraide told me that Mr. Balthrop entered.
13 That she had asked Mr. Balthrop not to enter through 14 the rear door because she had been instructed by a
15 woman by the name of Aysel Gan, who was the AAFES
16 manager or coordinator or somebody in authority, who 17 said that animals or people could come through the back 18 door, so she didn't want that happening. And so that 19 was the request Ms. Fraide made of Mr. Balthrop.
20 Mr. Balthrop responded by saying -- oh. Then
21 she also told him, she said that you don't come through 22 the back door, please, unless you have a work order. 23 Mr. Balthrop responded -- do you want me to continue? 24 Q. Yes, please.
25 A. Okay. Mr. Balthrop responded that he did
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1 have a work order. That he was there to check the
2 lights. And then when he heard that Aysel Gan was the 3 source of the request not to enter the back door,
4 Mr. Balthrop told Ms. Fraide that "Tell Aysel she can 5 suck it." And then he motioned, put his arms up and
6 then lowered them towards his lower body, while raising 7 his lower body, putting his hands in the direction of 8 his groin and lower pelvic area. And she regarded that 9 as a dirty comment, she said.
10 Q. And did -- did she tell you how she felt
11 about -- after Mr. Balthrop did that and said that?
12 A. Yes. She told me that she was embarrassed
13 and offended and she didn't know how to respond to the 14 conduct which -- or that remark and that gesturing
15 because she regarded it as embarrassing and offensive. 16 That's what I recall her saying about that.
17 Q. Did she tell you whether anyone else was
18 there and witnessed the interaction?
19 A. She did. She told me that Jesus Sanchez, the
20 security officer I mentioned earlier, was present and 21 observed Mr. Balthrop do those things.
22 Q. Okay. What happened after the gesture and
23 the comment that Mr. Balthrop made?
24 A. According to Ms. Fraide, Mr. Balthrop got on
25 his phone and ordered a sandwich and it was like it
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1 never happened. Which she also found puzzling. So
2 then he was there to order food.
3 Q. Okay. Did she tell you whether Mr. Sanchez
4 intervened in any way? Lieutenant Sanchez, I should
5 say.
6 A. She did. She said Mr. Sanchez intervened by
7 asking Mr. Balthrop to essentially abide or honor the 8 request not to come through the back door, and
9 basically said something to the effect of, you know,
10 she's trying not to get in trouble. Come on, man.
11 Something like that. I don't have an exact quote
12 without referencing my report, but it was something to 13 the effect of come on, man. Can't you just do what
14 she's asking you to do. She doesn't want to get in
15 trouble.
16 Q. Did Mr. Balthrop respond at all to
17 Mr. Sanchez after he said that?
18 A. My recollection of Ms. Fraide's statement was
19 that there was no further, you know, discussion
20 about -- in response to that. I think it was -- the
21 sequence was the coming in the back door. Please don't 22 come in the back door; tell Aysel she can suck it, and 23 then the intervention by Mr. Sanchez. Then that's -- I 24 don't recall any further interactions of consequence 25 after that.
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1 Q. Okay. Did she report this to anyone?
2 MR. PORTER: Objection. Leading.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled. Go ahead.
4 THE WITNESS: Not initially. She actually
5 didn't report it to anyone initially. That was in
6 December of '22, according to her statement. And
7 actually in January, on January 19th, Mr. Sanchez sent 8 an E-mail to the City. It was only after Mr. Sanchez's 9 E-mail that Ms. Fraide contacted her supervisor to
10 notify her supervisor of this event, which would have 11 been in --
12 BY MS. HURTADO:
13 Q. I'm sorry?
14 A. Which would have been in January 2023.
15 Q. Okay. Did you find Ms. Fraide to be credible
16 in her recounting of this interaction?
17 A. I did.
18 Q. And why is that?
19 A. I just apply the Evidence Code Section 780,
20 factors to credibility. So, you know, the manner of
21 her description of the events. Her ability to
22 perceive. Her recollection of the events. Proximity
23 in time. Corroboration of the facts that she states
24 against the statements of others. If there's
25 hesitation in the voice and so on.
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1 This was by phone, so I could not observe her
2 body language or facial expressions. But otherwise,
3 she was credible, based on all those factors set forth 4 in 780 of the Evidence Code, which is referenced in my 5 report.
6 Q. Thank you. I'm going to, at this point, play
7 a portion of your recorded interview with Ms. Fraide. 8 MS. HURTADO: Arbitrator, I do not think I
9 need it transcribed, if that's all right.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Yeah. That's fine.
11 MS. HURTADO: Thank you.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: This will just be a
13 placeholder, Margaret, that the audio was played.
14 MS. HURTADO: Thank you. And I will indicate
15 at what minute I'm starting, which is -- can you hear 16 that?
17 THE ARBITRATOR: Yes.
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 MS. HURTADO: I'm starting, for the record,
20 at the beginning of the recorded interview. And I'm
21 going to play about 30 seconds and then ask you a
22 question. Here we go.
23 (Audio played)
24 MS. HURTADO: Okay. I'm stopping, for the
25 record, at 31 seconds into that interview.
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1 BY MS. HURTADO:
2 Q. Mr. Rose, do you recognize the voices on that
3 recording?
4 A. Yes. The voices are myself and Ms. Fraide.
5 Q. Thank you. And this is, for the record,
6 Exhibit C7. City 7, which is the recording and
7 transcript of the Leslie Fraide interview. Do you
8 recall recording this -- this interview with her on
9 February -- I believe it was February 15th of 2023?
10 A. I do.
11 Q. I'm going to play another portion of it which
12 is a little bit longer. It's about 12 minutes. I'm
13 going to start at minute three with three seconds, and 14 I'm going to ask you to listen to it.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: Will we listen to all 12
16 minutes?
17 MS. HURTADO: If we can. I would like to.
18 It's the gist of her -- of her statement.
19 THE ARBITRATOR: Isn't there a transcript
20 that's already been prepared?
21 MS. HURTADO: There is, but I would like for
22 you to listen to the recording because of the -- her 23 demeanor, her tone, et cetera, to help make credibility 24 determinations.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: I can't make a credibility
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1 determination because this is hearsay.
2 MS. HURTADO: Okay.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: I can't rely on this as a
4 fact. I can only make a credibility determination if
5 she's a witness. Mr. Rose has made a credibility
6 determination and he has then informed his
7 investigative report, which he then provided to the
8 City, which caused them to take action. I understand
9 that.
10 But I can't rely on it for the truth of the
11 testimony she provides -- provided to Mr. Rose. So I 12 don't really need to hear it.
13 MS. HURTADO: Okay. I won't play it, then.
14 I will rely on the transcript then, of three minutes -- 15 the transcript beginning at minute three, three
16 seconds, to minute 15, 10 seconds is the gist of her 17 statement, if that's helpful to you.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: You can ask Mr. Rose what
19 impact it had on his determination, but I don't need it 20 played for that purpose. Go ahead.
21 MS. HURTADO: Thank you.
22 BY MS. HURTADO:
23 Q. Mr. Rose, what effect did it have on you to
24 listen to Ms. Fraide's account of what happened in
25 terms of her credibility and your findings in the
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1 report?
2 A. Well, at the time that she made the
3 statement, it sounded credible. She was the first
4 witness I interviewed, as I recall, possibly -- I'm not 5 sure if it was Mr. Sanchez or her, but those were the 6 first two witnesses I interviewed. So it sounds on its 7 face to be a credible complaint and had sufficient
8 detail. And I didn't ever discern a motivation for her 9 to lie, embellish or exaggerate. So I knew I had to do 10 further investigation into her complaint, but on its 11 face, it sounded like a credible complaint.
12 Q. Did your assessment of her credibility
13 influence your investigative findings that you
14 submitted to the City in your report?
15 A. Yes. Ultimately -- I substantiated her
16 complaint, ultimately, and I found her to be credible 17 and truthful.
18 Q. Did you find that there were key elements of
19 her testimony that you -- that were corroborated?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And what were those?
22 A. Well, the main complaint was this gesturing
23 to the groin or lower pelvic area or the genitals,
24 depending on who's describing what happened, and the 25 telling Aysel she can suck it. That sequence of
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1 events. That was corroborated by Mr. Sanchez and
2 Mr. Balthrop, to some extent. Although Mr. Balthrop,
3 of course, denied -- he said he was -- excuse me --
4 gesturing to his knee.
5 The fact that Mr. Balthrop was present. The
6 fact that Mr. Sanchez was present. The fact that
7 the -- Mr. Balthrop entered through the front door -- 8 excuse me -- the back door. The fact that Mr. Balthrop 9 was asked not to enter through the front (sic) door.
10 The fact that Ms. Gan was discussed in the context of 11 that request.
12 And those -- on -- those were the -- kind of
13 the major pieces of the puzzle that were corroborated. 14 Q. Thank you. Okay. I will move on, then, from
15 Ms. Fraide on to the next witness that you interviewed, 16 which was Lieutenant Jesus Sanchez. Did you interview 17 him via phone as well?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And was that around -- that was on February
20 10th, 2023?
21 A. That sounds correct. He was the first
22 witness I interviewed.
23 Q. Can you tell us who he is?
24 A. Mr. Sanchez is the lieutenant -- he's a
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1 for the United States Department of Defense.
2 Mr. Sanchez, at the time of my interview with him,
3 supervised all of the security officers on that
4 facility. And Mr. Sanchez was one of the security
5 officers -- or the security officer physically present 6 in December '22 during the episode at Subway involving 7 Ms. Fraide and Mr. Balthrop.
8 Q. And what did he tell you about this incident
9 at the Subway in December of 2022?
10 A. Mr. Sanchez largely corroborated, for the
11 most part, everything that Ms. Fraide said. He said
12 that Mr. Balthrop entered through the back door. That 13 Ms. Fraide asked him not to enter from the back door 14 because of a request by Aysel Gan. That Mr. Balthrop 15 told her that he was there on official business from 16 the City to check the lights and was looking upwards at 17 the lights.
18 Mr. Sanchez, his opinion of that act by
19 Mr. Balthrop was not -- that Mr. Balthrop was creating 20 a pretext for -- you know, after the fact, that was
21 what he believed. And that Mr. Balthrop made a gesture 22 with his hands much -- very much similar, nearly
23 identical to the way that Ms. Fraide described it,
24 gesturing to his genitals and while saying "Tell Aysel 25 she can suck it." And he regarded that as sexual
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1 harassment and he regarded that as Mr. Balthrop
2 basically telling Ms. Fraide -- or Ms. Gan, depending 3 on how you view it, to fuck off and that the remark was 4 sexual in nature.
5 And that he was offended and he regarded it
6 as unprofessional. He was exasperated by the fact that 7 Mr. Balthrop then got on his phone to look at whatever 8 he was looking at and ordered food and expected
9 Ms. Fraide to make his sandwich after disrespecting her 10 so severely, in his view.
11 Q. Did he tell you that -- if he intervened in
12 any way in this interaction?
13 A. Yeah. He told me that he intervened and
14 asked Mr. Balthrop not to -- you know, not to behave in 15 that way and that was not an appropriate response. And 16 he told me that -- there was one discrepancy. Mr. -- 17 Mr. Sanchez said that Mr. Balthrop referenced having 18 keys to all places on the Presidio as a matter of his 19 responsibilities, and Ms. Fraide did not recall that 20 aspect of Mr. Balthrop's statement. That was one
21 discrepancy I noticed between Mr. Sanchez's statement 22 and Fraide's statement.
23 But when Balthrop testified, there was
24 statements made by Balthrop about that subject matter 25 that seemed to track. So I didn't think that that
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1 discrepancy -- it didn't cause me to question
2 Mr. Sanchez's or Ms. Fraide's credibility. I thought
3 it was just a minor difference in perception of events. 4 Q. Was it your impression that Mr. Sanchez --
5 Lieutenant Sanchez had any bias or motive to lie?
6 A. No. No bias or motive to lie. My view of it
7 was Mr. Sanchez was attempting to provide accurate and 8 truthful information. I will say Mr. Sanchez seemed
9 exasperated by Mr. Balthrop in a broader sense because 10 of other events unrelated to the episode at Subway.
11 Such as things relating to his lights on his pickup
12 truck, playing music and security issues at the gate. 13 Mostly, I guess, surrounding that episode.
14 So he did have, I think, a low opinion of
15 Mr. Balthrop, but I don't think he had a motive or bias 16 to lie. He impressed me as a person who has a strong 17 sense of duty to his job, including honesty.
18 Q. Okay. So what is your opinion of his
19 credibility as it relates to your investigation and
20 your recommendations to the City?
21 A. I found him to be credible and truthful and I
22 credited his statements as accurate.
23 Q. Okay. Thank you. Now I'm going to show you,
24 if I may, Joint Exhibit Number 9. Let me share screen 25 here. Do you see that?
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1 A. I do.
2 Q. Do you know what this document is?
3 A. This appears to be a notice of my
4 administrative investigation from Brette Neal to Jerod 5 Balthrop inviting him to attend the Zoom meeting that 6 he ultimately attended.
7 Q. And you can see the date on there?
8 A. I see February 21, 2023.
9 Q. Okay. And that letter is addressed to
10 Mr. Balthrop. Correct?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Okay. Can you please read the paragraph
13 where he's directed to meet with you. If you can see 14 that?
15 A. Beginning with "You are scheduled"?
16 Q. Yes, please.
17 A. "You are scheduled to be interviewed by
18 Attorney Joe Rose, special counsel for the City of
19 Monterey on Thursday, March 2, 2023 at 10:00 a.m. via 20 videoconference through Zoom." Parenthesis, "Meeting 21 link and passcode below," closed parenthesis. "It is 22 anticipated this interview will last no more than two 23 hours. Please report to the human resources department 24 at 9:45 a.m. on Thursday, March 2nd, 2023 for this
25 interview. Mr. Rose will be present at your interview 46 AR 319
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1 and in charge of this investigation. The interview
2 will be audio and visually recorded." Then it provides 3 the Zoom link and information.
4 Q. Thank you. And is it your understanding that
5 he was also instructed to be honest with you during
6 that interview?
7 A. Yes, he was instructed to be honest during
8 that interview.
9 Q. Can you please read that paragraph where it
10 says "You are directed."
11 A. Bottom of Page 1. "You are directed to
12 cooperate fully with the investigator and answer all 13 questions candidly, truthfully and honestly. Refusal 14 to answer questions relating to the performance of your 15 official duties or untruthfulness in your answers or 16 statements during this investigation would violate City 17 of Monterey rules and regulations, would be
18 insubordination, and may subject you to disciplinary 19 charges which could cause adverse employment action." 20 Q. Okay. Thank you. And I'll stop sharing now.
21 Did you also admonish him before you started your
22 interview to answer your questions truthfully?
23 A. I did admonish him at the outset of the
24 interview, yes.
25 Q. Okay. That's reflected in your report.
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1 Correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And also in the recording of your -- of your
4 interview with him?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. When you interviewed Mr. Balthrop, was he
7 accompanied by anyone?
8 A. He was. He was accompanied by Ryan, R-y-a-n,
9 Heron, H-e-r-o-n, who is a union representative with
10 United Public Employees, I believe. Or the Monterey -- 11 General Employees of Monterey. And they're affiliated, 12 I think, with Laborers Union Local 792, I think.
13 Q. Did you make a record of your interview with
14 him?
15 A. I did. I audio-recorded it and -- yeah. I
16 audio-recorded the interview.
17 Q. And it's -- is it divided into three parts?
18 A. Yeah. I think we had a technical issue with
19 Zoom. At one point we had to move to the phone -- or 20 with the audio or something like that, and then there 21 was a break. I think we had three different segments 22 of audio on that interview. The interview lasted about 23 an hour and 50 minutes in total.
24 Q. And that is exhibit -- City's 6 contains all
25 three parts. So I was going to play some parts for
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1 you, but for the sake of expediency, I think I will
2 just ask you some questions about your interview.
3 So what did Mr. Balthrop tell you about the
4 December 2022 incident at Subway?
5 A. In summary, Mr. Balthrop told me that he was
6 planning to and did go to the Subway restaurant in
7 Building 660 on the Presidio of Monterey premises and 8 he was meeting other employees for lunch around the
9 lunch hour. That it was stormy and rainy, I believe,
10 and that as he approached that building, he observed 11 the building lights inside Subway to be flickering. So 12 he parked his vehicle, got out and entered through the 13 back door where he encountered Ms. Fraide.
14 Do you want me to continue?
15 Q. Yes, please.
16 A. Okay. So he encountered Ms. Fraide. And
17 Ms. Fraide, in his view, kind of rudely instructed him 18 or asked him not to come through the back door. And
19 his response was, you know, we have access to the
20 entire facility. You know, we work for the Department 21 of Defense. You know, you're a contractor with AAFES 22 who, in turn, contracts with the Department of Defense. 23 So we have rights to basically access, you know, any 24 location on the facility we need to access for the
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1 job for the City of Monterey.
2 And that he was already through the back
3 door, so the point was moot, you know, in terms of the 4 request. And Ms. Fraide elaborated. Explained that
5 Aysel Gan had instructed her not to have the door open 6 and not to let people come through the back door, and 7 that was the reason for the request.
8 And he said he was polite and courteous and
9 that that was the end of it. That was his initial
10 statement. And so then -- do you want me to continue 11 or do you want to ask more questions?
12 Q. Yes. I can ask you a question.
13 A. Okay.
14 Q. What was Ms. Fraide's response after he said
15 I already -- I'm already walking through?
16 A. Well, she meant, you know, perspectively.
17 Meaning in the future, you know, please don't enter the 18 back door. But according to Mr. Balthrop, I think
19 his -- I don't recall what he said she said after she 20 made that request. I think that -- my recollection is 21 simply that there was -- it was basically a polite
22 conversation. She seemed mad. He was professional.
23 And I confronted him with -- you know, at
24 some point because he had denied the primary allegation 25 about the "tell Aysel she can suck it" and the
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1 gesturing to the pelvis. At some point in the
2 interview I basically told him what the complaint was 3 from Leslie Fraide in particular and from Mr. Sanchez 4 and gave him an opportunity to respond to those
5 allegations.
6 Q. And what was his response when you told him
7 that Ms. Fraide accused him of making that comment and 8 making that gesture?
9 A. He denied it. He said it never happened and
10 that was an absolute falsehood and that was a lie and 11 that Ms. Fraide was not being truthful and Mr. Sanchez 12 was not being truthful. Mr. Balthrop, I recall, said 13 he wasn't 100 percent sure, but he believed two
14 security officers were present when he arrived.
15 After I confronted him with the complaint
16 made by Leslie Fraide and Mr. Sanchez, he then said
17 Mr. Sanchez wasn't even there. I think he thought the 18 person present was a different security officer by the 19 name of Brown, is what he reported to me. But, you
20 know, he was persistent in the fact that this was
21 untrue and these were contrived allegations and he
22 explained his theory of why Mr. -- Ms. Fraide was
23 motivated to lie about this allegation.
24 Q. What was his theory for Ms. Fraide and
25 Mr. Sanchez to have lied about this?
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1 A. Well, he had a few working theories. One was
2 that Ms. Fraide knew she was not supposed to have the 3 door open. And he knew that she knew that because he
4 has a friend by the name of David who works at the
5 Presidio, and he learned from David that that door's
6 not supposed to be opened.
7 And so his belief was that Ms. Fraide was --
8 had complained about him preemptively to try to deflect 9 attention from the fact that she had the door open,
10 which would have gotten her in trouble. That was one 11 theory.
12 The other theory was that Ms. Fraide and the
13 security officers were romantically interested in one 14 another in some way, and that because Mr. Balthrop had 15 had some terse or problematic interactions with the
16 security officers about other matters around that same 17 time relating to the lights in his truck and playing of 18 music or other things, security access and so forth, 19 that they had essentially conspired with Ms. Fraide and 20 she went along with it to basically frame him up for a 21 false allegation. Those were the two major theories, I 22 think, he floated.
23 Q. Did you find either of these theories to be
24 compelling?
25 A. I found them to be nonsensical, in my
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1 estimation, based on, you know, for a variety of
2 reasons. I don't know if you want to know them.
3 Q. Yes. Can we take the first series of
4 theories about -- let's take the romantic
5 involvement -- alleged romantic involvement between
6 Ms. Fraide and the security guards. Why was that
7 nonsensical to you?
8 A. Well, you know, one of the reasonings -- one
9 reason was the timeline didn't make sense. There was
10 an episode, you know, that Mr. Balthrop related about 11 trouble that he had getting Mr. Howard -- the other
12 witness that I interviewed at Mr. Balthrop's request -- 13 trouble getting Mr. Howard through the security gate 14 without proper procedure, and that that resulted in a 15 explosive interaction, according to Mr. Balthrop, with 16 a security officer by the name of Brown. And that was 17 perhaps a motivating reason for this. But that didn't 18 happen until after the Subway incident, so it couldn't 19 have been.
20 Then the other problem with it was the -- he
21 suspected the complaining security officer was Brown. 22 And it wasn't Brown; it was Sanchez. And furthermore, 23 with respect to the other theory -- I don't know if you 24 want me to go there?
25 A. Yes, please.
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1 Q. With respect to the other theory about
2 Ms. Fraide preemptively complaining about Balthrop
3 coming into the back door as a means to prevent her
4 from getting in trouble from having the back door open, 5 that didn't make any logical sense because two things. 6 She wasn't the one that complained. Sanchez was. She
7 only alerted her supervisor after Balthrop -- after
8 Sanchez complained to the City.
9 And two, Fraide complaining to the City about
10 Balthrop coming through an open back door would only 11 serve to highlight and bring attention to her leaving 12 the back door open.
13 Q. Did Mr. Balthrop at some point admit saying
14 the words "Tell Aysel she can suck it"?
15 A. Yes. Ultimately, he did admit that. About
16 an hour and 20 minutes, maybe, into the interview. You 17 know, I was thinking we were wrapping things up and I 18 revisited his denial and offered some alternative
19 possibilities, you know. Because at the outset, I had 20 told him, you know, make sure you don't complicate this 21 further or compound the problem by being untruthful
22 during the interview.
23 So I said are you sure about, you know, this
24 denial, and I gave him a hypothetical. I said, you
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1 and that happens. But if so, it would be beneficial
2 for you to be truthful about it and not be dishonest
3 about it.
4 At one point, he changed from the original
5 adamant denial and accusing Ms. Fraide of being a liar 6 and Mr. Sanchez of being a liar, and he left open the 7 possibility he might have said something along those
8 lines.
9 To put a fine point on it, I said I have to
10 make a credibility finding. I have to write in my
11 report what your position is and what your statement is 12 with respect to whether you said this and did this or 13 not. So what am I writing in my report essentially?
14 Am I writing in my report that you denied this occurred 15 or am I writing that you don't recall or that you did 16 do it? Or do you want to take a break and confer with 17 your union representative, is what I said. Then he
18 said he wanted to take a break, so they did.
19 And then the break -- after the break, he
20 came back and then he admitted that he had said it. He 21 admitted he had gestured, but he said he gestured to 22 his knee, not his groin.
23 Q. At any time before he took that break, did he
24 ever admit that he said those words to Ms. Fraide?
25 A. Admit, no. Shortly before the break, he said
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1 he left -- you know, it's possible I could have said
2 that. He left open the possibility that it might have 3 been said, but it wasn't until after the break that he 4 then admitted it.
5 Q. But he never admitted that he made a gesture
6 towards his groin. Correct?
7 A. No. I mean, my understanding of
8 Mr. Balthrop's position, at least the last time I
9 touched this file, was that he had never, you know,
10 motioned to his groin.
11 Q. Okay. Did he tell you about his relationship
12 with Ms. Gan?
13 A. Yes. And I did remember one additional fact
14 that he told me about the motioning to the groin, but I 15 can give you that information at some point. As far as 16 his relationship with Ms. Gan, he said they had a
17 favorable relationship. That he considered her a
18 friend. That he would frequently go into the
19 restaurant --
20 Q. I'm sorry to interrupt you. I'm talking
21 about Aysel Gan.
22 A. Oh. Aysel. Yeah, I'm speaking of
23 Ms. Fraide. Ms. Gan, he did not have a good
24 relationship. He said that -- initially, he said that 25 she's not my worst enemy, but she's not my friend. And 56 AR 329
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1 he kind of struck an ambivalent tone or a neutral tone 2 with Aysel in the beginning.
3 Ultimately later -- especially after he
4 admitted that he had said that "tell Aysel she can suck 5 it" as an explanation for his frustration with Aysel, 6 he explained she had been duplicitous and deceptive and 7 dishonest with her dealings at the Department of Public 8 Works at the City of Monterey. That she was frequently 9 attempting on multiple occasions to get the City
10 electricians to perform work that was beyond the scope 11 of their responsibility, which I understood to mean
12 that was work that would have been the responsibility 13 of the private contractor on the facility rather than 14 the Department of Defense. And that he basically felt 15 that she was sneaky.
16 Q. Thank you. And you said you were going to
17 tell us another fact about his motioning to the groin 18 area. What was that?
19 A. Right. After the break, after he said that,
20 yes, this happened, except the part about the groin
21 motioning. It was really Ryan Heron, his union rep
22 that said, you know, there was this World Wrestling
23 Federation, like, WWF wrestler signature taunt that was 24 used back in the 1990s by a group of WWF wrestlers
25 called the crotch chop. Where they would either motion 57 AR 330
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1 to their groin or motion to their -- either in a V or 2 in an X and say, you know, "suck it." And so this
3 was -- it was very popular in the 1990s, apparently,
4 and was kind of a -- caught on, if you will. Went
5 viral, I guess you could say in modern parlance. And
6 that that was the kind of gesture that Mr. Balthrop had 7 made.
8 Mr. Balthrop enthusiastically endorsed
9 Mr. Heron's suggestion and said, "Exactly. That's what 10 I'm trying to explain was that type of motion."
11 Q. Did you research this claim about the WWF?
12 A. I did. I looked on Wikipedia and, you know,
13 looked at some sources online and there was a
14 description of it and pictures and videos and so forth 15 that described this crotch chop.
16 Q. Okay. All right. So did you talk to
17 Mr. Balthrop about sexual harassment training that he 18 had received while employed by the City of Monterey? 19 A. I did. I did.
20 Q. I'm going to show you City's Exhibit Number
21 2, which is the Balthrop harassment record. And I'm
22 going to ask you if you recognize that. Do you see
23 that?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Okay. Let me make it a little bit bigger for
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1 those of us that are challenged. Okay. Where did you
2 receive this document from? By the way, this is
3 attached to your report. Is that correct?
4 A. Correct. That is a document I received as an
5 Excel document from -- I asked the City to provide me 6 with Mr. Balthrop's relevant training records, and I
7 got that from the -- I believe I got it from Brette
8 Neal, the director of human resources or her office.
9 Q. You see the date here? The run date?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. What is that?
12 A. That is the date, I believe, that the report
13 was run.
14 Q. Okay. February 15th, 2023. Correct?
15 A. Right. Oh. You're asking what the date was.
16 February 15, 2023. That's my understanding of when
17 they pulled that data from the database.
18 Q. It has Mr. Balthrop's name?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And apparently it must be his employee number
21 and then a list of trainings here. Do you see those? 22 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, it looks like?
23 A. I do.
24 Q. Okay. And then on the next page, it has the
25 dates that he completed those. Correct?
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1 A. Correct.
2 Q. And they begin in 2009 and they end in 2022.
3 Correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. So is it your understanding that these are
6 the trainings that he completed regarding sexual
7 harassment beginning in 2009 -- at least as of 2023,
8 February 15th?
9 A. Yes. And I formed that understanding in two
10 ways. One, because I received the business records of 11 the City in reference to those trainings and, two,
12 because I asked Mr. Balthrop about that. I showed him, 13 as I recall, those and he subscribed -- I don't believe 14 he said I remember exactly each and every training that 15 I took, but that that looks consistent of his memory of 16 the recurrent training he's participated in on those 17 subjects.
18 Q. Did he also tell you he had training prior to
19 2009?
20 A. I don't recall.
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. He did tell me he's been with the City for 23
23 years and they regularly train on this subject.
24 Q. Okay. Did you find Mr. Balthrop's responses
25 about the incident at Subway to be truthful?
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1 A. Not entirely.
2 Q. Can you explain that.
3 A. Well, initially he was totally untruthful
4 about the statement "Tell Aysel she can suck it." And 5 in denying that -- and he was totally untruthful about 6 the reference to his -- you know, his gesturing to his 7 pelvic or genital area.
8 Ultimately, he admitted -- made a partial
9 admission to the words but not the entire action. So
10 kind of -- is subscribing to, I guess, maybe 80 percent 11 of the alleged conduct.
12 Q. And between all of the interviews that you
13 conducted for this investigation, did you make a
14 determination as to Mr. Balthrop's credibility in
15 comparison to the other witnesses that you interviewed? 16 A. Yes, I did. And overall, I found
17 Mr. Balthrop's testimony to be not credible.
18 MS. HURTADO: Thank you. I don't have any
19 other questions.
20 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you. Why don't we
21 take a 15-minute break and then resume with
22 cross-examination.
23 MR. PORTER: Okay.
24 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Until 10:45.
25 (Recess)
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1 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Porter, do you have
2 cross-examination?
3 MR. PORTER: Yes, I do.
4 THE ARBITRATOR: Go ahead.
5 6 CROSS-EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. PORTER:
8 Q. Good morning, Mr. Rose.
9 A. Good morning, Mr. Porter.
10 Q. So I'm going to go back and ask you a few
11 questions. Trying to go in the same topical order that 12 Ms. Hurtado asked you questions. So first I'm going to 13 ask you about your interview with Ms. Fraide, which I 14 think you said was the first interview you did in this 15 investigation?
16 A. I think, actually, she was second. Can I
17 refer to my report and give you an accurate answer?
18 Q. It's irrelevant for my questions.
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. I don't think it matters that much.
21 A. I think I may have interviewed Sanchez first
22 in February and then Fraide second.
23 Q. So you mentioned some in the direct
24 examination, but did Ms. Fraide recall or discuss prior 25 interactions she had with Mr. Balthrop prior to this 62 AR 335
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1 December 2022 interaction?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. In summary, what was Ms. Fraide's
4 recollection of these interactions?
5 A. Her recollection was that Mr. Balthrop had
6 frequented the restaurant to buy lunch and that
7 occasionally she observed him looking at herself and
8 other female employees in the Subway workplace in a
9 manner that was -- she described it as looking at us
10 that way.
11 Q. Okay. Did she affirmatively say that she has
12 heard or not heard offensive comments from Mr. Balthrop 13 before?
14 A. She said that this was the first time she's
15 heard anything offensive by Mr. Balthrop.
16 Q. Okay. Also, you articulated during the
17 direct examination that there were some differences
18 between Ms. Fraide's testimony and Mr. Sanchez's
19 testimony. Is that correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And one of those differences was that
22 Mr. Sanchez articulated that Jerod spoke about keys or 23 having keys to the building?
24 A. Correct. And Ms. Fraide did not recall any
25 discussion of keys.
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1 Q. Okay. Did this distinguish -- or this
2 difference between their testimonies, did it have any 3 impact on Ms. Fraide's credibility?
4 A. No, not as to the primary question about
5 whether she -- whether Mr. Balthrop said those words or 6 engaged in those actions.
7 Q. Did it have any impact, according to your
8 understanding and your purposes, on Mr. Sanchez's
9 credibility?
10 A. No, I regarded it as ultimately
11 Mr. Balthrop -- I don't know if you want a one-word
12 answer or explanation, but I would say no.
13 Q. Okay. Well, I'll ask you, I guess, then.
14 Why did it not have an impact on the credibility?
15 A. Well, in my 20 years of experience as an
16 employment attorney and investigator, I have found that 17 even when truthful people observe the same events at 18 the same time, that human perception is not perfect. 19 And, therefore, you can have people that are
20 truth-tellers who perceive events slightly differently, 21 or they're not in a position to hear some, you know, 22 episode or vignette or segment of a conversation.
23 Then on top of that, Mr. Balthrop had
24 mentioned that he explained to Ms. Fraide the process, 25 which would be his ability to access any facility, any 64 AR 337
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1 building, any location on the Presidio. And I felt
2 like that was -- that topic was close enough in
3 relationship to the idea of keys, meaning access, that 4 that detail didn't bother me in terms of the trust of 5 the complaint and its veracity.
6 Q. Is it possible that Ms. Fraide simply forgot
7 about the comment about the keys?
8 A. I think that is possible, yes.
9 Q. Okay. Is it common or frequent that a
10 witness or a subject would forget a detail or a comment 11 during a witness interview?
12 A. People forget things.
13 Q. I'm also going to ask about some other
14 difference that you highlighted between Ms. Fraide,
15 Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Balthrop's testimonies that you
16 took regarding the gesture that Mr. Balthrop apparently 17 made. Were there differences between what Ms. Fraide 18 and what Mr. Sanchez recollected regarding the gesture 19 that Mr. Balthrop made?
20 A. Minor differences, yes.
21 Q. Some of those differences would be that
22 Mr. Sanchez specifically said there was a V-shaped
23 motion touching or around Mr. Balthrop's groin, but
24 Ms. Fraide said that it was just towards his lower
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1 that correct?
2 MS. HURTADO: Well, I'm going to object.
3 This is vague. I don't know what the question is.
4 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm going to overrule it.
5 But if Mr. Rose doesn't understand, it turns out I'll 6 be wrong. Try and answer. Go ahead.
7 THE WITNESS: I understand the question.
8 There was a slight difference between the two
9 statements. I think you mostly captured it,
10 Mr. Porter. The only thing I would add is Ms. Fraide, 11 I believe, also mentioned lower pelvis or lower hip
12 area. It wasn't just lower body. But yes, there were 13 minor differences in the words used to describe those 14 gestures.
15 BY MR. PORTER:
16 Q. And also to rearticulate, you stated
17 Mr. Balthrop said he made a gesture towards his knee or 18 towards his leg?
19 A. Knee. I don't know about leg, yes. He did
20 say that. He maintained that through the end of the
21 interview.
22 Q. In your opinion, would you say that the leg
23 could constitute or could be described as being part of 24 the lower body?
25 A. Generally, yes, but not in this context. I
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1 don't think Ms. Fraide or Mr. Sanchez were describing a 2 leg or a knee.
3 Q. I'm also going to ask you a few questions
4 about Mr. Balthrop's specific testimony as well. Well, 5 before that, sorry. I'm going to ask you a couple more 6 questions about Mr. Sanchez's interview, so we can go 7 in order here. You stated that Mr. Sanchez
8 communicated that he was exasperated by Mr. Balthrop
9 and had a low opinion of him?
10 A. Those are my paraphrasing words describing my
11 impression of his view of Mr. Balthrop. But, yes,
12 that's what I testified to.
13 Q. Did this understanding or perception you have
14 impact Mr. Sanchez's credibility regarding these
15 recounting of Mr. Balthrop's actions?
16 A. Well, it impacted it insofar as I seriously
17 considered whether there were exaggerations,
18 embellishments or outright lies directed at
19 Mr. Balthrop for some motive other than delivering true 20 information.
21 Ultimately, I concluded that Mr. Sanchez was
22 credible, notwithstanding that -- that my view of his 23 impression of Mr. Balthrop.
24 Q. And, Mr. Rose, you don't think it's possible
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1 perception of Mr. Balthrop's gesture towards his groin 2 versus just his lower body?
3 MS. HURTADO: Calls for speculation.
4 THE ARBITRATOR: Yes. Sustained.
5 BY MR. PORTER:
6 Q. I'll move on and kind of ask another
7 question. Mr. Rose, so I'm going to ask you a few more 8 questions about Mr. Balthrop's interview. So just
9 generally regarding any interview, how many statements 10 did Mr. -- well, how many statements did Mr. Balthrop 11 provide to you?
12 MS. HURTADO: Vague.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
14 THE WITNESS: He gave me one. I'm not sure I
15 entirely understand what your meaning is. But I will 16 answer it based on my understanding and you can
17 redirect me if I'm not getting the point.
18 He gave me one statement over a period of one
19 hour and 50 minutes, approximately, by Zoom in the
20 presence of his union rep that was interrupted by, I 21 think, two intervals. One being a break with his union 22 break and one due to technical issues, I think.
23 BY MR. PORTER:
24 Q. I see. I'm clarifying because during direct
25 examination you stated that there was a difference
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1 between Mr. Balthrop's initial statement and then some 2 other later statement. I'm clarifying. Did you take
3 multiple statements from Mr. Balthrop in that capacity? 4 Or what you meant by "initial statement."
5 A. What I meant by initial statement was the
6 beginning, middle and end of the interview. So the
7 initial portion of the interview, when I testified
8 earlier about his initial statement, I was meaning to 9 communicate his first response or his first -- for the 10 first hour and 24 minutes, Mr. Balthrop maintained
11 that -- during that interview, he maintained that those 12 allegations were a lie and that Ms. Fraide was a liar, 13 and that she couldn't have been offended by that
14 because she had tattoos and she looked like she was in 15 jail.
16 So he very strongly deflected and blamed
17 Ms. Fraide and Mr. Sanchez. Or not Mr. Sanchez in
18 particular, but the security officer he believed was 19 present, if at all, who was Brown. That was what I
20 mean by initial statement. The first, I would say,
21 hour and 20 minutes of the interview.
22 Q. Okay. So to clarify, according to your
23 report and investigation, did Mr. Balthrop admit that 24 he said, referring to Aysel Gan, that "she can suck it" 25 or did he not admit to it?
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1 A. He ultimately admitted that he said those
2 words on that day at Subway in the presence of
3 Ms. Fraide.
4 Q. All right. So according to your
5 investigation record in considering his entire
6 statement that he provided, was he honest about
7 admitting to saying Aysel Gan can suck it?
8 A. Well, not entirely because he spent a long
9 time denying that and blaming the others. I wouldn't
10 characterize him as honest, but I would say he
11 ultimately admitted what he said. And I remarked in my 12 report that that was a mitigating factor, in my view. 13 Q. I'm clarifying because you said that there's
14 only one statement that is ultimately provided and -- 15 it was a fact-finding, fact-taking interview.
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Was -- and just to clarify your previous
18 answer. The fact of this statement is that
19 Mr. Balthrop admitted to that conduct. Making that
20 comment. Correct?
21 A. Ultimately, at the end of the interview he
22 admitted to saying those words in the presence of
23 Ms. Fraide at the Subway in December of 2022.
24 Q. All right. Also prior, on cross-examination,
25 you stated that witnesses, or people, forget sometimes, 70 AR 343
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1 and this becomes apparent during the course of an
2 interview. Is that correct?
3 A. I did say that.
4 Q. Okay. Is it possible that Mr. Balthrop had
5 forgotten that he made the statement regarding Aysel
6 Gan, that she can suck it?
7 MS. HURTADO: Calls for speculation.
8 THE ARBITRATOR: Sustained.
9 BY MR. PORTER:
10 Q. Mr. Rose, in your work as an investigator, do
11 you give witnesses or subjects the opportunity to
12 follow up with you and provide additional
13 clarifications or responses to your questions?
14 A. Sometimes. Depends on the specific context
15 and the nature of the investigation.
16 Q. Okay. Kind of going along that same line,
17 you allow witnesses to take breaks during the course of 18 an interview. Is that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. Is one of the purposes of a break so
21 that the witness can recollect their thoughts or better 22 recall something?
23 A. No.
24 Q. So, in your opinion, the purpose of a break
25 would not be to recollect someone's thoughts or to
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1 refresh one's memory or recount something better?
2 A. My purpose in giving a break is simply for
3 comfort, and in the case of an accused person or a
4 represented person, to allow them to consult with their 5 representative.
6 Q. Okay. Well, then, I will ask you this, then.
7 If a subject or their advocate requests a break, is
8 that an indication of dishonesty?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. In my view, no. I mean, it depends on the
12 context. I mean, some people would say, you know,
13 there's a critical question pending and you want to go 14 speak with your representative. But my view of it is 15 you have a right to representation, and so I do not
16 factor in someone's decision to ask for a break to
17 consult with a representative as a negative factor, per 18 se, in a credibility determination.
19 Q. Okay. And are the things a subject or a
20 witness says right before or right after a break any 21 less credible, generally?
22 A. I can't generalize like that. The statements
23 are credible or not credible are probably not based in 24 relation to whether they are about to or just recently 25 requested a break.
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1 Q. Okay. Now, specifically during the course of
2 Mr. Balthrop's interview, were you the one that
3 initially suggested or prompted that perhaps they
4 should take a break?
5 A. I did.
6 Q. Okay. And sorry. One moment.
7 Going back, I guess, to Lieutenant Sanchez's
8 interview versus Ms. Fraide's interview. Would you say 9 that Mr. Sanchez's recollection or recounting of
10 Mr. Balthrop's interactions with Ms. Fraide at the
11 Subway December 2022 were more or less harsh or
12 critical than Ms. Fraide's?
13 A. I would not characterize it that way, no.
14 You're asking me if it was more or less or the same? 15 Q. Yes.
16 A. Okay. I don't really understand what you
17 mean by the word "harsh," so I'd have to say I don't 18 understand the question. I'm sorry, Mr. Porter.
19 Q. Okay. Well, I'm just clarifying that
20 Lieutenant Sanchez specifically mentions the word
21 "groin" in recounting Mr. Balthrop's gesture, whereas 22 Ms. Fraide refers to the lower body. Is that accurate? 23 A. Yes. Somewhat. But, you know, I wanted to
24 dispel any ambiguity about what Ms. Fraide was telling 25 me, so I asked her to be specific about it. And I
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1 believe she confirmed unhesitatingly that he was
2 referencing or motioning to his genital area and that 3 she knew it was a dirty comment and that it was in
4 reference to sex. I didn't really have any serious
5 doubt about -- in my estimation based on my
6 fact-finding that Mr. Balthrop had indeed motioned to 7 his genital area. And then coupled with "I'm not going 8 to answer that." I won't say that because it's not
9 responsive to your question.
10 MR. PORTER: Okay. I don't have any further
11 questions at this time.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: Any redirect?
13 MS. HURTADO: Just quickly.
14 15 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
16 BY MS. HURTADO:
17 Q. Regarding the prior interactions between
18 Ms. Fraide and Mr. Balthrop. Did she agree with you
19 that he would come into the Subway restaurant and leer 20 at the women working there?
21 A. She did. She used "look at us that way."
22 She was searching for words. And so in fairness, I was 23 the one that suggested the word leer and she agreed
24 with that. Ultimately, I didn't find make any finding 25 regarding that. I didn't think that statement was
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1 sufficiently descriptive or concrete to substantiate a 2 finding on it. It was too subjective. She did indeed
3 say that's what she felt like.
4 Q. Mr. Porter asked you about the possibility of
5 Mr. Balthrop forgetting that he said these words or
6 made this gesture. Is there a difference in your mind 7 between forgetting something and lying about something? 8 A. Yes.
9 Q. What was your impression of Mr. Balthrop's
10 version of what happened?
11 A. Based on my experience, my impression was
12 Mr. Balthrop was intentionally concealing information 13 to try to manage the impression of his behavior. And 14 then ultimately, because I feel like, you know, I used 15 an investigative technique to make the issue concrete, 16 which was that, you know, I have to write a report that 17 makes a credibility finding and includes your
18 admission, denial or otherwise.
19 Once it became concrete, my view of it was
20 that he decided after that break that he was going to 21 make that admission. But I did not ask Mr. Balthrop
22 why he previously told me a wildly different version of 23 events and he did not offer one.
24 Q. In terms of your credibility assessment of
25 him, Mr. Balthrop, did you take into account at all
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1 that he took a break to speak with his union rep in
2 making that credibility determination?
3 A. I did not. Breaks -- people take breaks.
4 He's got a rep. He's entitled to -- due process
5 requires that he be entitled to effective
6 representation from his union as a public employee.
7 Absolutely not. There's no demerit for taking a break. 8 It's just context and timing.
9 MS. HURTADO: Thank you. Nothing further.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Anything further,
11 Mr. Porter?
12 MR. PORTER: Just briefly.
13 14 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
15 BY MR. PORTER:
16 Q. On redirect, she just -- Ms. Hurtado just
17 asked you some questions about assessing credibility or 18 how you kind of knew -- or assessed honesty versus
19 forgetting something. Do you know that it -- do you
20 know if Mr. Balthrop, up until the point when you took 21 a break, if he definitely remembered and recalled the 22 entire incident?
23 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Calls for
24 speculation.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
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1 THE WITNESS: I would have to answer this as
2 follows: Mr. Balthrop told me he wasn't 100 percent
3 sure, but he thought there were two security guards
4 present. Then he provided me with a very descriptive
5 detailed account of what happened.
6 And I had no impression from him at the
7 outset of the interview that he had any faulty memory, 8 other than he couldn't 100 percent remember if there
9 were two security guards present or not. So is it
10 possible that Mr. Balthrop forgot? I didn't formulate 11 that impression. I don't believe that to be the case. 12 But, you know, I can't answer that question.
13 MS. HURTADO: I will move to strike it, then,
14 as speculation.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: There's no jury so I don't
16 need to strike it, but yeah.
17 MR. PORTER: I'm not asking him --
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Follow-up question?
19 MR. PORTER: I'm not asking Mr. Rose to
20 speculate. I'm asking if he affirmatively knew that
21 Mr. Balthrop had a clear recollection of saying "Aysel 22 Gan can suck it" at the start of the interview and up 23 until the break was taken. And I believe his response 24 was he can't know that for sure.
25 MS. HURTADO: That's speculation.
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1 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm going to overrule that.
2 Okay. Do you have any more questions, Ms. Hurtado?
3 MS. HURTADO: I do not. Thank you.
4 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Rose, thank you for your
5 time this morning. I appreciate it. Obviously, don't
6 discuss your testimony in case you're recalled, but I 7 appreciate it and you're free to go right now.
8 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you very much.
9 Take care.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Is the City ready to call
11 their next witness?
12 MS. HURTADO: Yes. If I can have two
13 minutes. I just have to text him. He's on standby.
14 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Let's go off the
15 record for a second.
16 (Recess)
17 THE ARBITRATOR: Back on the record.
18 Good morning, Mr. Sanchez. My name is Andrea
19 Dooley. I'm the factfinder in this matter. Thank you 20 for joining us today.
21 THE WITNESS: Good morning. Hopefully you
22 can hear me.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Loud and clear. First thing
24 I'll have you do is please raise your right hand.
25 (Whereupon Jesus Sanchez was sworn in by the
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1 Arbitrator)
2 THE ARBITRATOR: We have a court reporter.
3 She's taking down everything we all say. So I'll just 4 ask you to speak slowly, loudly, clearly and answer in 5 words because she can't take down sounds.
6 THE WITNESS: Okay.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Wait for the attorneys to
8 finish their questions before you answer, and they'll 9 show you the same courtesy because the court reporter 10 can only take one person at a time. And only refer to 11 documents that are shared with you by one of the
12 attorneys. Don't refer to any personal notes or your 13 phone or your calendar, because then this could become 14 evidence. Okay?
15 THE WITNESS: Sure.
16 THE ARBITRATOR: Go ahead. Whenever you're
17 ready.
18 MS. HURTADO: Thank you.
19 20 DIRECT EXAMINATION
21 BY MS. HURTADO:
22 Q. Good morning, Lieutenant Sanchez.
23 A. Good morning.
24 Q. Thank you for being here. We appreciate your
25 time.
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1 A. No problem.
2 Q. Who are you employed by?
3 A. I'm employed by the Department of Defense. I
4 work under physical security.
5 Q. And do you have a rank or a title?
6 A. I do. It's lieutenant. I'm a supervisor.
7 Q. Okay. So your job duties are to supervise
8 other security guards at the Presidio?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You are stationed -- can you tell us where.
11 A. I'm stationed at Presidio of Monterey.
12 Q. How long have you worked for the Department
13 of Defense?
14 A. Nine years.
15 Q. Have you been a supervising security officer
16 the whole time?
17 A. Probably about the last -- going on three
18 years.
19 Q. Okay. What other positions did you hold
20 before that?
21 A. Before that, I had the sergeant position,
22 which was a lead, and regular officer position before 23 that.
24 Q. Okay. What are your duties as a supervising
25 security officer?
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1 A. I run backgrounds and check IDs. Make sure
2 everybody has the proper credentials.
3 Q. Do you know Jerod Balthrop?
4 A. I don't know him personally. I know who he
5 is and what he did for the City.
6 Q. How do you know him? What kind of
7 interactions have you had?
8 A. They've been professional when he has to do
9 work orders. I know he was an electrician, so he
10 would, you know, fix anything that has to do with that 11 matter.
12 Q. Okay. And how long have you interacted with
13 him in that capacity?
14 A. Probably the whole time I was here. Maybe --
15 I really can't say the longevity of time, but
16 whenever -- I see him every morning when he comes to 17 work three days a week when I work. Say good morning 18 to him.
19 Q. Where do you see him when you see him coming
20 to work?
21 A. I see him at the main gate, which is -- and
22 he comes and greets -- give his ID. Check him. Say
23 good morning.
24 Q. Would you say you know him well or not well?
25 How would you characterize --
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1 A. I know he's a -- he's not a bad guy, from my
2 understanding. He's never done anything to me
3 personally that I think -- that will reflect any
4 personal interaction.
5 Q. Do you recall an incident at Subway in 2022
6 that involved Mr. Balthrop?
7 A. I do.
8 Q. Can you tell us what you saw that day.
9 A. Sure. So I was taking one of my subordinates
10 for lunch. We were going together. And he was craving 11 either Subway or Domino's, which is right next to each 12 other in the food court. We went up there. I took him 13 up there. I went to go grab myself a drink.
14 I came back and we were interacting with a
15 young lady named Leslie. That's where I'll start off 16 from there.
17 Q. Okay. Was this at the Subway located at the
18 Presidio?
19 A. It's in the Presidio, yes, ma'am. Food
20 court.
21 Q. Do you know Leslie's last name?
22 A. I do not.
23 Q. Does she work at the Subway?
24 A. She still does, yes.
25 Q. Do you know what her position is there?
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1 A. I think she's either a lead or a manager.
2 Q. You said you were there to buy yourself lunch
3 that day?
4 A. Yeah. I was -- well, not -- yeah. We were
5 pretty much on our lunch break. And like I said, me
6 and my subordinate went up there to grab lunch. And
7 there is also like a little warmer, if you will, on the 8 side of that, and grab drinks if we need to or chips or 9 something.
10 Q. When you were inside the Subway, was your
11 subordinate with you?
12 A. He was in the area at the time. I don't
13 remember if he was either ordering a sandwich from
14 her -- Leslie's coworker or ordering a pizza. I
15 honestly don't know. I don't remember what I ate
16 yesterday. I don't remember what he ate.
17 Q. Who was that person that was with you that
18 day?
19 A. That was Brown, Damiel. His last name is
20 Brown. His first name is Damiel, with an M.
21 Q. Okay. So when you entered the Subway to get
22 your sandwich, what happened then?
23 A. We were interacting. Having a peaceful
24 conversation.
25 Q. When you say "we," who do you mean?
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1 A. Myself and Leslie, just having a
2 conversation. And Mr. Balthrop entered from the back
3 of the store or kitchen area, and that's when Leslie
4 just acknowledged him and advised him it's no longer
5 okay to come through the back.
6 Q. When you say she advised him it was no longer
7 okay to come through the back, what kind of tone of
8 voice did she use when she said that?
9 A. She was very polite. Very professional. I
10 think she knew exactly the words to use. As in "I
11 don't have a work order for you to be back here," which 12 is what generally anybody needs to be in a general area 13 when they're working.
14 Q. Did she explain to him why he couldn't come
15 in through the back door?
16 A. Yeah. She started mentioning that Ms. Aysel
17 Gan was a -- the manager for AEFES; the store that runs 18 all the shops there -- was already kind of putting her 19 under the radar because it wasn't a professional manner 20 when someone that doesn't work there and handles food 21 is back there. So they kind of already had a thing to 22 stay away from that trouble.
23 Q. Was it your understanding that Ms. Fraide was
24 getting in trouble with Ms. Gan for leaving the back 25 door open?
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1 A. Ms. who? I'm sorry.
2 Q. Ms. Fraide. Leslie. Leslie was getting in
3 trouble with Ms. Gan for leaving the back door open?
4 A. Yes. From my understanding, just from the
5 conversation, it sounded like she was already getting 6 in trouble.
7 Q. Okay. So what was Mr. Balthrop's response
8 when Leslie told him not to come in through the back
9 door?
10 A. He kind of did like a -- looked up to the
11 ceiling, and he goes -- kind of like if he's checking 12 the lights kind of thing, and then continued to proceed 13 from the back of the kitchen to the front the store. 14 Q. Did it seem to you he was, in fact, checking
15 the lights?
16 A. No, ma'am. It was just a quick pass by just
17 to check the box, if you will.
18 Q. What do you mean by that, "check the box"?
19 A. Pretty much, like, just to say that he
20 checked the lights. Not necessarily with the work
21 order, just to kind of, I don't know, make it easier on 22 her to not feel as pressured.
23 Q. Okay. Did you see that there was anything
24 wrong with the lights? Were they flickering or
25 anything like that?
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1 A. No, ma'am. The lights were good to go.
2 Q. What happened after he did that?
3 A. Once he came to the front, he started
4 mentioning about regardless of anything, I have keys so 5 I can come in if I want to. She mentioned she had to
6 close the door. That's when he mentioned he had keys. 7 And then she just said, I know. I understand, but it's 8 just I don't have a work order for you and I don't want 9 to get in trouble. Yeah. That's when it kind of
10 proceeded.
11 Q. What was his reaction after she asked him
12 again not to walk through the back door because she
13 would get in trouble?
14 A. He mentioned that Aysel Gan can suck it, and
15 he did some actions that determined that term as well. 16 Q. Do you mind showing us exactly what you saw?
17 A. Sure.
18 Q. Is that all right?
19 A. Sure. From a standing position --
20 Q. You can stand if you like.
21 A. Sure. So standing, crossed his arms and kind
22 of hip thrust.
23 Q. While he said the words?
24 A. Yeah.
25 Q. What were the words that he used? Do you
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1 remember?
2 A. Yeah. He said, "You can tell Aysel Gan that
3 she can suck it."
4 Q. What was Leslie's reaction to that?
5 A. It was more like a jaw drop. Not necessarily
6 like -- she just said, look, I'm trying to not get in 7 trouble. That's when I kind of stepped in at that
8 point. And I just said, hey, sounds like she knows
9 what she's talking about. Do her the common courtesy, 10 if you will. And I was completely ignored by
11 Mr. Balthrop.
12 Q. Did he say anything to you in response?
13 A. No. No. He just kind of looked my way and
14 kind of kept his attention on her.
15 Q. What happened after that?
16 A. After that, he proceeded to order a sandwich.
17 And then I kind of gave her a faraway look as I was
18 backing backwards and said don't worry. I'll take care 19 of it. I was going to see if I can report him to his 20 supervisor.
21 Q. Going back. Before we get back to your
22 report to the supervisor. What made you step into the 23 situation?
24 A. I don't think that's right. I think it's a
25 form of sexual harassment. It's something that a
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1 workplace shouldn't be experiencing, no matter where
2 you work or a difference in job. It's not very
3 professional in my eyes.
4 Q. Did Ms. Fraide ask you to intervene in any
5 way?
6 A. It was one of those things where I didn't
7 feel I had to because of the uniform I'm wearing. Two, 8 it's something I don't think anybody -- well, I think I 9 mentioned prior I have a daughter, so I wouldn't want 10 my daughter to kind of see that, especially at work. 11 Q. You said you felt offended by it. Why is
12 that?
13 A. I felt offended because it's super
14 unprofessional. 100 percent unprofessional. And just 15 because it's actions that shouldn't be taken by someone 16 in a uniform. You're representing a lot of individuals 17 when you wear anything that flashes. Whether it's a
18 Subway shirt or City of Monterey shirt or the uniform 19 I'm wearing today.
20 Q. Was Mr. Balthrop wearing his uniform that
21 day?
22 A. Yes, ma'am.
23 Q. Can you describe that.
24 A. Blue pants. Cargos, if I remember right. I
25 don't remember what his undershirt was, but he was
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1 wearing the City of Monterey jacket. Like a
2 Carhartt-looking one. Not so many pockets, but a heavy 3 jacket with the zipper in the middle. If I do remember 4 right, he was wearing the City of Monterey blue shirt 5 on the bottom. Again, that's two years ago.
6 Q. Do you remember about what time of day this
7 was?
8 A. I want to say anywhere between lunchtime, so
9 11:00 to 1:00ish.
10 Q. Okay. Do you recall if anything else was
11 said after he ordered his sandwich?
12 A. From him, no. From Leslie, nothing either.
13 It's just me and my subordinate. We walked up and he 14 straight-up said, did he really just do that? And I
15 was like, yeah. I hope the cameras didn't catch it.
16 At the time we didn't have cameras inside the Presidio 17 for military base reasons.
18 Q. In his Skelly hearing, Mr. Balthrop claimed
19 that you weren't even at the Subway. He made these
20 comments and gestured towards Leslie. Is that true?
21 A. That's not true.
22 Q. He also indicated that you're biased towards
23 him because you have a romantic interest in Leslie. Is 24 that true?
25 A. No, ma'am.
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1 Q. I'm going to show you a document. Give me a
2 moment while I pull it up.
3 A. Sure.
4 Q. This is -- well, can you tell us what this
5 document is.
6 A. It looks like the E-mail I sent
7 Mr. Christopher Dwight.
8 Q. Who is Mr. Christopher Dwight?
9 A. Mr. Dwight is a supervisor. Manager, I
10 guess. At the time, from my understanding, he was new. 11 He's a manager, supervisor of the city employees here 12 on the Presidio.
13 Q. Is it your understanding he was
14 Mr. Balthrop's supervisor?
15 A. I had to question a couple of the City
16 employees, just to see who the new supervisor was.
17 Because like I said, my understanding, they were
18 getting a new one and I wasn't sure who it was yet.
19 Q. After you did all of that, it's your
20 understanding that Mr. Dwight was Mr. Balthrop's
21 supervisor at that time?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. This is City's Exhibit Number 3. C3. So
24 what -- when did you send this?
25 A. Sometime in January. The E-mail says January
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1 19th. Little bit after the incident.
2 Q. That's 2023?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Can you please read your E-mail to
5 Mr. Dwight.
6 A. Sure. I wanted to address an issue that
7 happened at Subway with one of the City of Monterey
8 employees, Jerod. I went up to the Subway for lunch,
9 and I was conversating with the cashier, Leslie. Jerod 10 came in using the back door to Subway. She greeted
11 him, then asked if he could start -- start going around 12 instead of cutting through the restaurant/kitchen -- 13 THE REPORTER: Wait. Wait. Slow down just a
14 little bit when you're reading.
15 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
16 She mentioned she got talked to by the AAFES
17 manager about it, so now she needs to secure the door. 18 Jerod mentioned he has keys regardless. Jerod then
19 said he's checking the lights and looks up, pretending 20 to look at the lights and proceeded to walk to the
21 front of the restaurant. Leslie said she appreciated 22 it, but without a work order providing (sic) he needs 23 to be back there, she can get in trouble. And she
24 would not want Aysel Gan, the AAFES manager, to get her 25 in trouble.
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1 Jerod then in a stern voice says, Tell Aysel
2 she can suck it, while slapping both arms towards his 3 groin. I stepped in and said look, man. She's asking
4 you nicely. She doesn't want to get in trouble. Jerod 5 ignored me and continued talking to Leslie.
6 Jerod stated he has keys, so it doesn't
7 matter if she locked the door. He has keys to the
8 installation, he spoke. Then he proceeded to order a
9 sandwich. If you have any questions, feel free to
10 reach out to me. Then my signature.
11 Q. Thank you. Is this the E-mail that you wrote
12 to Mr. Dwight in January of 2023?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Okay. And the incident happened in December
15 of 2022, you said. Correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Why did you wait until mid-January to file
18 the complaint?
19 A. Like I said, I was trying to figure out who
20 the new supervisor was. I was asking around at first 21 and obviously -- not obviously. I only work three days 22 a week. If it happens on a Friday -- well, three days 23 one week, four the next. If it happens on my Friday, I 24 have to wait until I come back four days later, and
25 trying try to figure out some more questions from
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1 there.
2 So time went on. Excuse me. Time went on
3 and eventually I found out who the supervisor was. And 4 when I finally got to meet him, it was one of those
5 things where, hey, can I send you an E-mail? Sure.
6 Here's my E-mail. I got sidetracked again and then I
7 eventually sent the E-mail.
8 Q. Did you discuss the complaint you were about
9 to send via E-mail with Leslie before filing it?
10 A. No.
11 MS. HURTADO: Okay. I don't have any further
12 questions. Thank you.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you.
14 Do you want -- Mr. Porter, do you want this
15 E-mail on the screen while you question Mr. Sanchez or 16 should we take it down?
17 MR. PORTER: We can take it down. Thank you.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Go ahead.
19 20 CROSS-EXAMINATION
21 BY MR. PORTER:
22 Q. Good morning, Lieutenant Sanchez. Thanks for
23 being here.
24 A. No problem.
25 Q. I'm going to ask you just a few questions
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1 about what Ms. Hurtado just asked you. So you
2 mentioned during the incident at the Subway at the
3 Presidio, you and a coworker of yours arrived and you 4 said that Leslie was working with another Subway worker 5 or --
6 A. I honestly cannot remember. Cannot recall
7 how many people were working there. I just remember
8 Leslie being involved. I don't remember if my coworker 9 went to get Subway or went to get Domino's. The
10 restaurants are literally right next to each other. I 11 know he was in the general area. I was not paying
12 attention to what he was ordering. I was just worrying 13 about what was going on.
14 Q. How often do you go, about, to this Subway
15 restaurant?
16 A. Not that often. I tend to meal prep more
17 often then usual. Again, I went over to drop off my
18 coworker and get a drink at the AAFES stores.
19 Q. I see. The time when you went to the Subway
20 restaurant, this particular restaurant, did you get
21 your food -- or do you generally get your food to go 22 whenever you get it or do you eat at the restaurant? 23 A. No. We generally have to get our food to go.
24 We can't be there longer than we should. Maybe 30
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1 We have a working lunch.
2 Q. Okay. Now, I also wanted to kind of focus on
3 specifically during your testimony, you mentioned that 4 Mr. Balthrop said that he had the keys to the building. 5 Is that correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Do you know if Mr. Balthrop has the keys to
8 this building?
9 A. I have no idea. But him mentioning that kind
10 of raises the red flag.
11 Q. You mentioned on direct examination that you
12 interact -- or had previously interacted with
13 Mr. Balthrop at the gate to the facility about three 14 times a week. Is that correct?
15 A. Give or take, yes.
16 Q. Okay. During your interactions with
17 Mr. Balthrop over your guys' careers, have you heard 18 Mr. Balthrop use offensive language before?
19 A. Not to me. Not that I know of.
20 Q. Okay.
21 MR. PORTER: I think those are actually all
22 the questions I have for now.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Ms. Hurtado, do you
24 have any more questions for Lieutenant Sanchez?
25 MS. HURTADO: Just one.
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1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MS. HURTADO:
3 Q. Did you -- you said that it rose a red flag
4 for you that he said he had keys to the Subway. Why
5 was that?
6 A. Not Subway's particularly. It's mainly --
7 obviously, our job is security. So when someone says
8 they have keys to the installation, that makes me think 9 do you have keys to open and close the gates to the
10 installation and stuff like that? And doors and --
11 other doors other than Subway, you know.
12 Q. And was that a security concern for you?
13 A. Yes and no. Just because, again, City
14 employees do have to get in and out of places, like, 15 for example, Subway. So I was just hoping that there's 16 someway, somehow a track record of where these keys are 17 going.
18 MS. HURTADO: Okay. Thanks. No further
19 questions.
20 THE ARBITRATOR: Anything further,
21 Mr. Porter?
22 MR. PORTER: No. Nothing further.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Lieutenant Sanchez,
24 thank you for your time today. You're free to go.
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1 you get recalled. But otherwise, have a great day.
2 THE WITNESS: Thank you. You as well.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you.
4 Ms. Hurtado, do you have another witness?
5 MS. HURTADO: I do. I just texted her to
6 join. She's Andrea Renny, public works director.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Renny, is that R-e-n-n-e?
8 MS. HURTADO: R-e-n-n-y.
9 THE ARBITRATOR: Y. Thank you.
10 MS. HURTADO: She will be our last witness.
11 Let me call her and make sure she got my text.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: No problem.
13 MS. HURTADO: She has to reboot her computer,
14 so she will be on as soon as possible.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: No problem. That's how it
16 goes with these hearings.
17 (Discussion off the record)
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Good morning, Ms. Renny.
19 Can you hear us okay?
20 THE WITNESS: I can hear you. Can you hear
21 me okay?
22 THE ARBITRATOR: Yes, we can.
23 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
24 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm Andrea Dooley. I'm the
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1 right hand.
2 (Whereupon Andrea Renny was sworn in by the
3 Arbitrator)
4 THE ARBITRATOR: Great. Thank you. You can
5 put your hand down.
6 We do have a court reporter. So I would just
7 remind you to speak loudly and clearly and slowly and 8 answer only in words, not sounds or nods of the head. 9 Wait for the attorneys to finish their questions before 10 you answer and they will show you the same courtesy. 11 And only refer to documents provided to you
12 by one of the attorneys. Don't refer to any of your
13 personal notes or calendar or phone so we don't make 14 that into evidence. Okay?
15 THE WITNESS: Okay.
16 THE ARBITRATOR: Go ahead when you're ready.
17 MS. HURTADO: Thank you.
18 19 DIRECT EXAMINATION
20 BY MS. HURTADO:
21 Q. Good morning, Ms. Renny.
22 A. Good morning.
23 Q. Before we get into the substance of your
24 testimony, I just want to talk a little bit about your 25 background. Can you tell us how long you've been
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1 employed with the City of Monterey?
2 A. I've been an employee of the City of Monterey
3 since October 2000.
4 Q. And what is your current position?
5 A. My current position is public works director.
6 Q. Can you tell us about your education.
7 A. Yes. I have a bachelor's degree in civil
8 engineering and a professional registration as a civil 9 engineer in California.
10 Q. Have you been the public works director for
11 the entire time that you've worked for the City of
12 Monterey?
13 A. No, I started in 2000 as an assistant
14 engineer. Promoted to associate engineer in 2003.
15 Early 2017 to senior engineer, and then late 2017, city 16 traffic engineer. And public works director in
17 September of 2022.
18 Q. Where did you work before you worked with the
19 City of Monterey?
20 A. For the San Diego Transit Metropolitan
21 Development Board.
22 Q. What are your current duties generally as
23 public works director?
24 A. So I oversee seven divisions, including
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1 and utilities, engineering, harbor marina, parking and 2 general services, which we also call building
3 maintenance.
4 Q. And is building maintenance the division
5 where Mr. Balthrop works?
6 A. Yes, that's correct.
7 Q. Now, turning to the reason that we're here
8 today. Do you know Jerod Balthrop?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did you know who he was prior to this
11 investigation?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. How did you know him?
14 A. Through work in the City of Monterey working
15 for a different divisions at the time.
16 Q. Okay. When were you first notified about the
17 complaint about -- against Mr. Balthrop?
18 A. I was notified in early January 2023 when the
19 general services superintendent, Chris Dwight, notified 20 me that he had a conversation with Lieutenant Sanchez. 21 Q. What did Mr. Dwight tell you about that
22 conversation?
23 A. He said there was an incident at Subway and
24 that he was going to look into it, and that Lieutenant 25 Sanchez was going to follow up with an E-mail.
100
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1 Q. Okay. Did you have any role in -- well, let
2 me back up.
3 Did you at some point become aware of an
4 investigation into that complaint against Mr. Balthrop? 5 A. Yes. After we received the E-mail from
6 Lieutenant Sanchez, that's when we -- I was told that 7 we were going to do an investigation. The City was
8 going to conduct an investigation into the incident.
9 Q. Did you have any role in selecting the
10 investigator in this investigation?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Who selected the investigator?
13 A. I believe it was our HR department.
14 Q. When did you become aware of the
15 investigative report findings?
16 A. In August 8, 2023 is when I received the
17 report.
18 Q. And did you have any initial thoughts or
19 reactions when you read the investigative report?
20 A. Yes. I thought their conduct towards
21 Ms. Fraide was egregious when he said "Aysel can suck 22 it" and motioned to his groin. I think there was a
23 failure to take responsibility for his actions
24 initially. Even though he did admit to saying Aysel
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1 the groin. He was directed to be forthcoming and
2 truthful. There's some discrepancies in the interviews 3 of Lieutenant Sanchez and Ms. Fraide.
4 Q. Okay. And what kind of discipline did
5 Mr. Balthrop receive at the end of the disciplinary
6 process?
7 A. Termination.
8 Q. And why did he receive termination instead of
9 suspension or some lesser form of discipline?
10 A. It was due to the egregiousness of the
11 conduct and dishonesty during the investigation
12 process.
13 Q. Okay. So I'm going to go into more detail
14 about your process and your findings, but I'm going to 15 show you an exhibit that's been labeled Joint Exhibit 16 4. I'll pull it up on my screen so you can see it. Do 17 you know what this document is?
18 A. It's a Notice of Proposed Discipline.
19 Q. Did you write this document?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. I'm going to scroll to the bottom, hopefully
22 without making everybody ill here. Did you sign this 23 document?
24 A. Yes, I did, on October 13, 2023.
25 Q. Did you personally deliver this document to
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1 Mr. Balthrop?
2 A. I did. Myself and Tom Lewandowski, who is
3 the deputy public works director for administration.
4 Q. Do you know whose signature this is at the
5 bottom?
6 A. That is Mr. Balthrop's signature.
7 Q. So he acknowledged that he received it on
8 that same date. Correct?
9 A. He did, yes.
10 Q. When he was delivered this notice, was he
11 also placed on paid administrative of leave?
12 A. Yes. He received a letter from the city
13 manager placing him on administrative leave with pay. 14 Q. That was on the same date?
15 A. That's correct. On the same date.
16 Q. You list some attachments here. Can you
17 explain what they were.
18 A. Yes. That was the investigative report
19 created by Mr. Rose, together with the HR printout of 20 the training events Mr. Balthrop attended. The general 21 services division. There's a document that is the
22 standard operating procedures for general services,
23 which we also refer to as building maintenance. Also, 24 the reasons for the discipline and all of the sections 25 of the Code where the disciplinary actions are
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1 codified.
2 Q. I'm going to go through these with you. Let
3 me show you another exhibit that's been labeled Joint 4 Exhibit 5. Monterey City Code Section 25-14.02. Do
5 you see that?
6 A. I do.
7 Q. Is that the policy that you referred to in
8 your Notice of Proposed Termination?
9 A. Yes, it is.
10 Q. So can you tell us how Mr. Balthrop's actions
11 violated this policy?
12 A. Yes. So the information's also contained in
13 the Notice of Proposed Discipline. So for D, which is 14 failure to perform work in a satisfactory manner, it 15 was the unprofessional interaction was
16 counterproductive and unsatisfactory to his work as an 17 electrician at the Presidio of Monterey working for the 18 City wearing a uniform.
19 E was inefficiency or inexcusable neglect of
20 duty, which was failure to perform duties required by 21 the employee's position. And the reason why is the
22 unsatisfactory work performance caused by his conduct. 23 His verbal and physical conduct was inefficient and
24 inexcusable neglect of duty. His actions did harm his 25 reputation as well as the City's representation, and it 104
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1 does hinder our service at the Presidio.
2 Q. Thank you. And I would just ask you to just
3 be mindful of the court reporter who can only --
4 A. I'm sorry.
5 Q. -- yes. Just --
6 A. I'll speak slower.
7 Q. Yes. No problem.
8 A. Thank you.
9 Q. And so you spoke about Sections D and E. And
10 can you also tell us what other sections of this code 11 he violated with his conduct?
12 A. Yes. So there's O, which is discourteous
13 treatment of the public or other employees within the 14 scope of employment. So when Mr. Balthrop made an
15 obscene gesture and comment, it was discourteous
16 towards Ms. Fraide, Lieutenant Sanchez. And that was 17 not -- that was in violation -- I'm sorry. I'm trying 18 to read it. I have it on my screen too.
19 So the comment and the verbal -- the comment
20 "Aysel can suck it" and the physical gesture were
21 discourteous.
22 Q. Okay. Was there any other code section that
23 he violated in this section?
24 A. Yes. There's W, which is willful violation
25 of the provisions of the ordinances, resolutions and 105
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1 rules or policies. So we mentioned the general
2 services division standard operating procedures which 3 are for building maintenance. And that does state that 4 you're expected to maintain courteous and respectful
5 behavior at all times.
6 Q. Let me just scroll over to that exhibit which
7 I believe is Exhibit -- Joint Exhibit 8. Let me just
8 bring that up very quickly. Is that the operating
9 procedures you just referenced?
10 A. Yes, it is.
11 Q. I believe it's on Pages 5 through 6. I'm
12 going to show you the section that I believe you just 13 referenced. Okay. Do you see that "Expectations On
14 Courtesy" at the bottom of Page 5?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 Q. And is this the section that you believe he
17 violated --
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. -- by his conduct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Thank you. Going back to -- I'm sorry.
22 Joint Exhibit Number 5. So you were saying that he
23 violated -- let me make this a little bigger. That he 24 violated Section W with his conduct. Correct?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. Okay. Any other sections that you believe he
2 violated?
3 A. Yes. B and H.
4 Q. Let's talk about B and H. How did he violate
5 Section B?
6 A. He was directed to be truthful in his
7 interview with Mr. Rose, and he had discrepancies in
8 his investigation report.
9 Q. In your view, that's willful disobedience
10 under Subsection B?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Any other sections under this -- you said H,
13 I believe?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Can you explain how he violated Section H.
16 A. Yes. He was dishonest and insubordinate
17 during the investigative review. Interview. I'm
18 sorry.
19 Q. All right. I think I'm done with this
20 document.
21 Let me scroll over to Joint Exhibit 7, which
22 is another Monterey code section that outlines the
23 City's harassment/discrimination/retaliation/abuse of 24 conduct and bullying policies, which is Section
25 25-3.03. Do you recognize this document?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Is this a policy that you referred to in your
3 Notice of Proposed Termination that he violated?
4 A. Yes, it is.
5 Q. How? Can you tell us how his actions
6 violated this policy?
7 A. Yes. So if you -- you can scroll down a
8 little bit more. So his conduct when he was at the
9 Subway shop violated this policy because his verbal and 10 physical actions were insulting, derogatory and
11 humiliating to Ms. Fraide, as she indicated in her
12 interview with Mr. Rose.
13 Q. Were they also offensive to Lieutenant
14 Sanchez?
15 A. Yes. They were offensive to him and that he
16 found it necessary to bring it forward to our general 17 services superintendent Chris Dwight.
18 Q. Is it true that the City has a zero tolerance
19 policy in regard to this type of behavior?
20 A. I believe so, yes.
21 Q. It's actually laid out here in your policy.
22 Correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. Now, in terms of physical conduct and visual
25 conduct, can you explain how even though it's only one 108
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1 instance of this conduct, why does that violate the
2 policy?
3 A. It was egregious enough and serious because
4 he is representing the City at a military installation 5 where conduct is -- you have to conduct yourself
6 professionally.
7 Q. In your mind, this was serious enough,
8 egregious enough that it justified a finding of a
9 violation of the policy?
10 A. Yes. And Mr. Balthrop did attend various
11 classes on the subject.
12 Q. Let me get to that, then. I'm going to show
13 you City Exhibit Number 2. That's not it. Sorry. One 14 moment. I wrote down the wrong number.
15 City Exhibit 2. I'm going make this bigger
16 so you can see it. Do you know what this document is? 17 A. That's a printout of the -- the training that
18 Mr. Balthrop attended.
19 Q. What type of trainings are we talking about?
20 A. Sexual harassment. Including sexual
21 harassment for supervisors, which is a longer training 22 than for non-supervisors. Respectful workplace as well 23 and anti-harassment.
24 Q. Did you compile this list of trainings that
25 Mr. Balthrop attended?
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1 A. I did not.
2 Q. Do you know who did?
3 A. Our human resources department.
4 Q. As far as you know, is this a true and
5 accurate record of all of the sexual harassment
6 trainings that Mr. Balthrop attended from -- it looks 7 like 2009 to February 15th, 2023, which is when this
8 report was run?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. I'm going to show you a different document
11 which is Joint Exhibit 9. Can you see that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Do you know what this document is?
14 A. Yes. It's a notice of investigation.
15 Q. What role did this document play in your
16 determination that Mr. Balthrop should be terminated? 17 A. If you scroll down, he was advised to
18 cooperate fully and answer all the questions truthfully 19 during the investigation with Mr. Rose. And if he was 20 not, that could be separate grounds for adverse action 21 against him.
22 Q. You're referring to this paragraph that
23 starts at the bottom of Page 1 and goes into the top of 24 Page 2?
25 A. Yes. That's correct.
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1 Q. Okay. So now that we have gone through all
2 of these policies that you've listed in your Notice of 3 Proposed Termination, can you please tell us why you
4 determined that termination was the only appropriate
5 discipline for these policy violations?
6 A. Yes. It was the seriousness of the
7 misconduct, both verbal and physical, and the failure 8 to take responsibility. I did not think it could be
9 corrected through additional training since he already 10 took multiple sexual harassment courses, and his
11 position at the Presidio requires mutual respect,
12 integrity and credibility. And I would also feel the 13 same way if it was a member of the public that was not 14 in the installation.
15 Q. When you delivered the Notice of Proposed
16 Termination, did you verbally inform -- or did you
17 inform Mr. Balthrop of his Skelly rights at that time? 18 A. I did. I let him know that he had the right
19 to request a Skelly conference.
20 Q. Did he or someone on his behalf request a
21 Skelly hearing?
22 A. Yes. His union representative, Mr. Heron,
23 E-mailed our HR director requesting a Skelly
24 conference.
25 Q. Were you the Skelly officer at that
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1 conference?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. When did that take place?
4 A. Sorry. I just need to look.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: What are you referring to?
6 THE WITNESS: The date.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Don't look at any documents
8 other than what's been shown. If you don't remember,
9 say you don't remember.
10 THE WITNESS: I don't remember the date. I'm
11 sorry.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: Just don't want your
13 personal documents to become part of the record.
14 THE WITNESS: I appreciate it. Sorry. I
15 don't remember the date off the top of my head.
16 BY MS. HURTADO:
17 Q. It was after your Notice of Proposed
18 Termination?
19 A. Yes. It was either late October or early
20 November.
21 Q. Do you remember who was present at that
22 hearing?
23 A. Yes. Our human resource director, Brette
24 Neal. Our deputy public works director of
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1 and Mr. Heron.
2 Q. Did you have the hearing recorded?
3 A. I did. Yes, we did.
4 Q. Audio or video or both?
5 A. Only audio.
6 Q. Did you -- let me start again. Did you have
7 that hearing transcribed?
8 A. Yes, I did.
9 Q. I'm going to show you a document -- I'm
10 sorry. I have a very small screen and I have to share. 11 All right.
12 Do you recognize this document? Let me make
13 it a little bigger. Do you recognize that?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. This is City Exhibit 5. What is it?
16 A. It is the Skelly hearing transcribed.
17 Q. Do you remember how long the hearing took?
18 A. It was scheduled for an hour. I want to say
19 it was 45 minutes to an hour. I don't recall.
20 Q. This was in person?
21 A. This was in person, yes. At our HR
22 conference room.
23 Q. Did you transcribe the hearing audio or did
24 someone else do that?
25 A. My executive assistant did that.
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1 Q. Did you review it for accuracy?
2 A. I did.
3 Q. So is this, as far as you know, a true and
4 accurate transcript of the recording of the Skelly
5 hearing?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did Mr. Balthrop present any evidence at the
8 hearing to dispute the allegations against him?
9 A. He did. He presented a doctor's note that
10 said that he was not physically capable of making a V 11 with his hands pointing towards his groin.
12 Q. Did you take that evidence into consideration
13 at the Skelly hearing and in your final determination 14 to terminate him?
15 A. I did take it into consideration. I did not
16 think it was relevant because there are ways to point 17 towards your genital area without actually touching. 18 And during the investigation, in the investigative
19 report it is mentioned that he swung his arms down
20 while he lifted his body up. So I did not find that
21 this was relevant.
22 Q. What other evidence did he present to dispute
23 the allegations?
24 A. He said Lieutenant Sanchez was not there to
25 witness him saying that Ms. Aysel can suck it and
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1 making the physical motion. He said that he did not
2 gesture to his groin at all when he said Aysel can suck 3 it. He tried to minimize his actions. He said that he 4 only slapped his knee five minutes later when he was
5 exiting the shop, which is contrary to what the
6 investigation report says that Lieutenant Sanchez and 7 Ms. Fraide said.
8 Q. Did he make any admissions during the Skelly
9 hearing?
10 A. Yes. He did admit that he said "Aysel can
11 suck it," but that he said he slapped his knee five
12 minutes later when he was exiting the shop.
13 Q. Did you feel that he was credible during the
14 Skelly hearing?
15 A. There are a lot of inconsistencies with the
16 investigation report, and I did not feel like he was 17 truthful in that he did not make a gesture at the same 18 time that he said those words.
19 Q. At the end of the hearing, did you make any
20 determination regarding whether to uphold his
21 termination?
22 A. Yes. I decided to uphold the termination.
23 Q. I'm going to show you City's Exhibit 4, now,
24 which is a document -- can you see it?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. Can you tell us what that is.
2 A. That is the Final Notice of Discipline.
3 Q. And termination?
4 A. Termination. Sorry. Yes.
5 Q. And you -- it looks like you authored that
6 document as well?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And let me just scroll to the bottom. Is
9 that your signature at the bottom?
10 A. That's my electronic signature, yes.
11 Q. Again, Mr. Balthrop signed that as well
12 acknowledging that he received it on November 7th,
13 2023?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. What was your final determination, Ms. Renny?
16 A. Termination.
17 Q. Did you consider at all reducing his
18 discipline?
19 A. No, because the conduct was serious and
20 egregious.
21 Q. Are your findings in this Final Notice of
22 Termination essentially the same as in the Notice of 23 Proposed Discipline that we previously discussed?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. The investigation report that Mr. Rose
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1 prepared, did you rely on that as well in making your 2 decision to terminate Mr. Balthrop?
3 A. I relied on the investigation and also I
4 listened to -- to the audio files.
5 Q. Of the interviews Mr. Rose conducted with the
6 witnesses?
7 A. Yes. With Mr. Balthrop, Ms. Fraide, Chuck
8 Howard and Lieutenant Sanchez.
9 Q. Anything else you relied on to make your
10 determination?
11 A. I did look at his personnel file and I did
12 see that he did not have any other documented
13 incidents. But, again, this was egregious and serious. 14 Q. Now, the investigation report discusses some
15 other allegations that Mr. Balthrop was discourteous to 16 the Presidio guards, but that did not appear to be the 17 basis for your determination. Is that accurate?
18 A. That is accurate.
19 Q. Does this Final Notice of Termination
20 accurately reflect the determination you made after
21 that Skelly hearing?
22 A. It does.
23 MS. HURTADO: Thank you. I don't have any
24 other questions. I'll stop sharing.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Porter, do you have any
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1 cross?
2 MR. PORTER: Yes.
3 4 CROSS-EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. PORTER:
6 Q. Hello. Good afternoon, Ms. Renny. Thank you
7 for being here.
8 A. Thank you.
9 Q. How often did you interact with Mr. Balthrop
10 while he was employed with the City?
11 A. Not very often. I know we have worked in
12 different divisions for most of the time, so it was in 13 passing.
14 Q. During any of those interactions, did you
15 ever hear Mr. Balthrop use any professional or
16 offensive language?
17 A. I did not interact with him enough. It was
18 just usually in passing. So no, I did not.
19 Q. Also, I'm going to reference the doctor's
20 note, and I think that will be brought up perhaps later 21 on. But in the Skelly decision, so the Final Notice of 22 Discipline, which I think was reviewed -- it's
23 articulated by you that the doctor's note contradicts 24 the witness testimony. Is that correct?
25 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Vague.
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1 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled. If she can
2 answer it. If she can answer it, she can tell us.
3 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the question,
4 please.
5 BY MR. PORTER:
6 Q. Yeah. As the Skelly hearing officer and
7 according to what you submitted in the Final Notice of 8 Discipline, I believe it's articulated in there that
9 the doctor's note that Mr. Balthrop provided regarding 10 his body and his limitations contradicted the witness's 11 testimony. Is that correct? Regarding the gesture he 12 made?
13 A. So in the investigative report it said that
14 he swung his arms down and lifted his body up. So I
15 did not see an indication from the doctor's note that 16 he wouldn't have been able to do that.
17 Q. Okay. I'm going to -- actually -- and I
18 don't know if I have the ability to share screen, but I 19 want to specifically bring up the Final Notice of
20 Termination, which I think is the City's Exhibit 4, I 21 believe. Well, maybe I'll just present you with the
22 Final Notice of Termination a little bit later on.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Are you having a difficult
24 time sharing?
25 MR. PORTER: Let me see here. My computer is
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1 disagreeing with me a little bit. I'll do that part a 2 little bit later.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: I can assist, if you need
4 that. Go ahead.
5 MR. PORTER: I'll ask a few other questions
6 before I get specifically to that.
7 BY MR. PORTER:
8 Q. Going back specifically -- or I guess more
9 generally looking at discipline as a whole and its
10 purpose. Would you agree that discipline is supposed 11 to be corrective and not punitive?
12 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Vague.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
14 THE WITNESS: Discipline is meant to be
15 corrective when something is not egregious or serious 16 enough. And there, again, Mr. Balthrop had a lot of
17 training. I don't believe that additional training
18 would have prevented another incident. This was
19 serious enough.
20 BY MR. PORTER:
21 Q. Is your testimony today that if the
22 misconduct is egregious enough, discipline need not be 23 corrective?
24 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Misstates her
25 testimony.
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1 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
2 THE WITNESS: Is that a question? Can you
3 rephrase?
4 BY MR. PORTER:
5 Q. Yes. I'm asking you to kind of reaffirm what
6 you just stated. So is there any situation when
7 discipline need not be corrective?
8 MS. HURTADO: Vague. Objection. Vague.
9 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
10 THE WITNESS: So you're asking if there is a
11 time when discipline should not be corrective? I'm
12 trying to understand your question better so I can give 13 you a good answer.
14 BY MR. PORTER:
15 Q. Yeah. So my question before, which you
16 answered -- but maybe getting a firmer answer on that 17 would be better.
18 So my question initially was would you agree
19 that discipline's supposed to be corrective and not
20 punitive, and I want to make sure I understand your
21 response. And your response to that question, which I 22 understand and we can look back at the record, was that 23 if the misconduct was egregious enough, pursuing a
24 corrective response may not be appropriate.
25 A. Well, if it's serious and egregious, we do
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1 have a zero tolerance policy.
2 Q. What does that mean to you as far as whether
3 or not your -- the City's response should be corrective 4 or not corrective?
5 A. I think the City had the appropriate
6 response, which was termination.
7 Q. Okay. Do you think that was the corrective
8 response? Or do you think it served some other purpose 9 for the City, is what I'm asking.
10 MS. HURTADO: I'm going to object again.
11 It's compound and it's vague.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: Yeah. I'm going to agree
13 there. I'm going to sustain that objection. It's a
14 little vague.
15 MR. PORTER: Okay. I'll kind of reask it
16 this way.
17 BY MR. PORTER:
18 Q. Was the termination of Mr. Balthrop a
19 corrective action by the City?
20 MS. HURTADO: Again, objection. It's vague
21 as to what corrective -- what he means by "corrective." 22 THE ARBITRATOR: I mean, I'm going to -- I'm
23 going to overrule that objection, but I think this
24 is -- I think this is, I guess, maybe argumentative. I 25 mean, I think she testified about what she considered 122
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1 corrective to be and why she didn't employ it. So I
2 think she already testified. It's not -- I don't think 3 it's intended to be corrective.
4 MR. PORTER: I see.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: If that's not clear,
6 obviously you can ask follow-up questions, but go
7 ahead.
8 MR. PORTER: All right.
9 BY MR. PORTER:
10 Q. So I'll ask you this question, Ms. Renny.
11 Have you been the Skelly hearing officer before for
12 other matters other than this?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Have you been involved with the disciplinary
15 process for other investigations regarding harassment? 16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Okay. Is termination always the appropriate
18 level of discipline regarding misconduct involving
19 harassment?
20 MS. HURTADO: Well, that calls for
21 speculation.
22 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
23 THE WITNESS: So in looking at our policies
24 in our City code, Chapter 25, there are reasons for
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1 can correct behavior as long as the behavior is not
2 serious and egregious.
3 BY MR. PORTER:
4 Q. Okay. So my question was is termination
5 always the level of discipline which the City utilizes 6 in response to harassment?
7 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Argumentative.
8 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
9 THE WITNESS: It is not always termination,
10 no.
11 BY MR. PORTER:
12 Q. Okay. Does anything in Mr. Balthrop's
13 employment history prior to this incident with the City 14 indicate that he is incapable of correcting the issue? 15 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Vague.
16 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
17 THE WITNESS: I did not see any documented
18 incidents in his record.
19 BY MR. PORTER:
20 Q. I'm going to ask you a few questions about
21 the anti-harassment classes that Mr. Balthrop took
22 which Ms. Hurtado asked you about. Were these
23 anti-harassment classes that Mr. Balthrop participated 24 in with the City specifically to address or correct any 25 behavior that he was exhibiting?
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1 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Lacks foundation.
2 Calls for speculation.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
4 THE WITNESS: I believe those were assigned
5 classes, but I don't know for sure.
6 BY MR. PORTER:
7 Q. Is it your understanding that these classes
8 were assigned to groups of employees or multiple
9 employees or were they specifically assigned to
10 Mr. Balthrop?
11 A. I don't know. There are classes that are
12 assigned to a group of employees, and sometimes the
13 same classes are assigned to employees who need a
14 refresher. In this case, I don't know.
15 Q. Okay. So you stated on direct examination
16 that these prior trainings were -- and the fact that he 17 took part of these prior trainings were part of your 18 consideration in evaluating the level of discipline. 19 Is that correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. You also stated that the prior trainings
22 didn't seem to be effective. Is that correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And you also just stated on cross-examination
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1 specifically address or correct any behavior that you 2 knew of. Is that correct?
3 MS. HURTADO: I'm going to object. That
4 misstates her testimony.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
6 THE WITNESS: I said I did not know if they
7 were assigned to him as part of another -- of a
8 previous incident.
9 BY MR. PORTER:
10 Q. So you didn't know if they were involved or
11 in reference to some prior incident. So I'll just end 12 with this question, Ms. Renny. Did Mr. Balthrop
13 receive any corrective actions from the City regarding 14 harassment other than termination?
15 A. So you're asking -- can you repeat the
16 question. So you're asking about this incident in
17 specific?
18 Q. No. So I'm asking about the entirety of
19 Mr. Balthrop's career. According to your understanding 20 and -- yeah, according to your understanding. Did
21 Mr. Balthrop receive any corrective actions from the 22 City regarding harassment? And that includes this
23 situation or any prior situation. Did he receive any 24 corrective actions from the City other than
25 termination?
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1 A. Not that I know of.
2 MR. PORTER: No further questions.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Do you have any questions,
4 Ms. Hurtado?
5 MS. HURTADO: Yes. Just briefly.
6 7 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
8 BY MS. HURTADO:
9 Q. Counsel asked you about whether you had ever
10 witnessed Mr. Balthrop engage in unprofessional or
11 offensive language. Would you have the opportunity to 12 observe that?
13 A. Probably not. It was -- every time I've seen
14 Mr. Balthrop was generally in City functions and there 15 were multiple people there.
16 Q. Would you say you saw him often or not often?
17 A. Not often, no.
18 Q. Okay. I was curious. Let me show you back
19 to the policy. The abusive conduct/harassment,
20 et cetera, policy. We were talking about a single act 21 being sufficient to justify the termination. Do you
22 see under Number 4, abusive conduct/bullying, the last 23 two sentences. "A single act shall not constitute
24 abusive conduct, unless especially severe and
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1 terminating Mr. Balthrop?
2 A. I did. The gesture and comment was
3 humiliating and it was severe and egregious.
4 MS. HURTADO: Thank you. No other questions.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: I have two questions,
6 Ms. Renny.
7 8 EXAMINATION BY THE ARBITRATOR
9 BY THE ARBITRATOR:
10 Q. Are there other corrective measures besides
11 training available when considering allegations of this 12 nature?
13 A. Usually I work with our human resources
14 department on any training or corrective training.
15 But, again, I just want to say that this one was
16 especially severe.
17 Q. I know that. I'm asking as a matter of
18 practice, besides training, does the City impose other 19 corrective measures in circumstances like this? Not
20 even like this. Under this policy?
21 A. Under this policy, yes. We have progressive
22 discipline. We have performance improvement programs. 23 We have other types of corrective tools that we can
24 use.
25 Q. Thank you. And then was Mr. Balthrop working
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1 during the pendency of the investigation? He wasn't -- 2 the complaint was made in January and he was discharged 3 in October. Was he working up until his paid
4 administrative leave?
5 THE WITNESS: Yes, he was.
6 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. I don't have any
7 further questions, but did that initiate any thoughts 8 for you, Ms. Hurtado?
9 MS. HURTADO: Yes. Thank you.
10 11 CONTINUED REDIRECT EXAMINATION
12 BY MS. HURTADO:
13 Q. When you talked about all the other
14 corrective measures that are available for violating 15 this harassment policy, you talked about progress -- 16 yeah, progressive discipline, performance improvement. 17 Can you think of other instances where that was
18 appropriate? Can you give us an example of where that 19 was appropriate?
20 A. Prior with another employee or?
21 Q. Yes. Without telling us the employee name,
22 obviously.
23 A. Yes. There have been incidents of
24 discourteous treatment where we have used counseling 25 with the employee and had the employee take additional 129
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1 classes on harassment --
2 Q. And what kind of -- I'm sorry to interrupt
3 you. Go ahead.
4 A. No. I'm sorry. And we counseled the
5 employee.
6 Q. And what kind of discourteous treatment was
7 that?
8 A. It was calling people names and belittling
9 people.
10 Q. In your mind, is that type of discourteous
11 treatment different than Mr. Balthrop's conduct at the 12 Subway restaurant?
13 A. Yes. It's different because there were two
14 people there and he was in a City uniform representing 15 the City. And he made a gesture and the words "she can 16 suck it." And I think to a reasonable person that
17 would be the mention of fellatio, and that's just
18 inappropriate behavior for the workplace, and
19 especially when you're representing the City.
20 Q. Does the location of the workplace, did that
21 also factor into your consideration?
22 A. Well, that would be serious within the City.
23 We do rely on a partnership with the Army where
24 trustworthiness and professional behavior is very
25 important. We have an agreement and a contract with
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1 the Army. So this type of behavior is just really not 2 appropriate for a military installation where we are a 3 contractor.
4 MS. HURTADO: Thank you, Ms. Renny. I don't
5 have any other questions.
6 THE ARBITRATOR: Anything further,
7 Mr. Porter?
8 MR. PORTER: No.
9 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Renny.
10 Appreciate your time today. You're free to go.
11 Obviously don't discuss your testimony in case you're 12 recalled.
13 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
14 THE ARBITRATOR: Let's go off the record for
15 a quick second.
16 (Recess)
17 THE ARBITRATOR: Back on the record.
18 Before you call your witness, I want to look
19 quickly at this. These are the Union's exhibits. It
20 appears that Exhibits B, C and D are commendations.
21 Are these from Mr. Balthrop's personnel file?
22 MR. PORTER: Yes. That's my understanding.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Do you have any objection to
24 the receipt of these commendations as a part of his
25 personnel file?
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1 MS. HURTADO: No. Not if they're part of his
2 personnel file.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. If you find out
4 otherwise, let us know.
5 MS. HURTADO: I will check, just because I
6 don't know that for a fact. Although I take that
7 representation as true, but I will check.
8 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. This is the doctor's
9 notice provided during the Skelly. Is that correct?
10 MR. PORTER: Yes.
11 MS. HURTADO: Yes. And that we would object
12 to.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: On what basis?
14 MS. HURTADO: Lacks foundation and hearsay.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: Well, okay.
16 MS. HURTADO: He could have brought in the
17 doctor.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: I mean, okay. I'll let him
19 testify about what it is and so forth.
20 And then E. What's the relevance of this?
21 MR. PORTER: One second.
22 MR. BALTHROP: That was in regards to the
23 other section when the guard was complaining that I
24 wasn't following --
25 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Balthrop, hang on. Hang
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1 on.
2 MR. BALTHROP: Okay.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm going to let Mr. Porter
4 decide whether he's going to move that or not.
5 MR. BALTHROP: Sorry.
6 THE ARBITRATOR: You don't have to decide
7 now, Mr. Porter. This appears to be a September 2013
8 performance evaluation?
9 MR. PORTER: That's correct.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: This is from Mr. Balthrop's
11 possession, not from the -- not disclosed by the
12 Employer in the process of this investigation. Is that 13 correct?
14 MR. PORTER: That's correct.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm going to withhold ruling
16 on the other documents and just admit B, C and D, and 17 in the course of the testimony will determine whether 18 we take a look.
19 (Union Exhibits B, C and D received into
20 evidence)
21 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Let's go. You can go
22 ahead and call your witness.
23 Mr. Balthrop, if you would turn your video
24 back on.
25 MR. BALTHROP: Okay. I'm sorry.
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1 THE ARBITRATOR: That's okay. Raise your
2 right hand, please.
3 (Whereupon Jerod Balthrop was sworn in by the
4 Arbitrator)
5 THE ARBITRATOR: You've heard all the things
6 I said to the other witnesses, so I won't repeat them. 7 But I would just remind you to wait for the questions 8 to finish and so forth.
9 Go ahead, Mr. Porter.
10 MR. PORTER: Thank you, Arbitrator Dooley.
11 12 DIRECT EXAMINATION
13 BY MR. PORTER:
14 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Balthrop. Thank you for
15 being here. So first, I'm going to ask you some
16 questions about your background and your experience as 17 an electrician with the City. Now, I know a number of 18 facts have been stipulated to, so I'm going to do my 19 best to avoid going over things we don't need to go
20 over. Tell me about your -- how you got your skills or 21 what you do for a living.
22 A. Yeah. I'm an electrician. I was an
23 electrician before I started with the City of Monterey. 24 I was hired in 2000 for an assistant position and I
25 quickly rose to electrician about a year later.
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1 And I was in charge of the whole Presidio for
2 numerous years from 2003 until 2009. And basically in 3 charge of all the electrical work. The power coming
4 in. The high voltage.
5 Then I went to the street department for
6 another raise in pay and a promotion to all-voltage
7 electrician for five more years. And I did all the
8 street lighting for the city, underground locating,
9 pole lighting, pole replacement, crane operating,
10 things of that nature.
11 Then they cut the position due to installing
12 LED lighting throughout the city, which I was in charge 13 of that project as well. And the tunnel lighting
14 replacement, I was in charge of that as well. So they 15 cut my position and they cut my pay, and they put me 16 back at the Presidio. In charge of the Presidio. So
17 it was a thousand dollars a month pay cut five years 18 later. Really just because they said they didn't need 19 the position anymore.
20 So I went back to the Presidio. Back to my
21 old duties. So I mainly dealt with generation. Power 22 generation for the buildings. High voltage coming in. 23 Day-to-day maintenance of electrical stuff and
24 overseeing other guys that were working on electrical 25 subs.
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1 So I pretty much worked on everything there.
2 Anywhere. Everywhere.
3 Q. All right. I'm going to ask you some more
4 specifics, I guess, or kind of ask you to describe that 5 a little more in detail. First of all, do you rely
6 on -- how do you get your assignments or your duties
7 for each day or for the different projects you work on? 8 A. Well, we have a work order box typically in
9 the morning that we check to see if anything came in. 10 We get phone calls all day long for emergencies or
11 somebody called in something that could be dangerous or 12 hazardous and we respond quickly.
13 Most of the time I never even have a work
14 order in my hand when I show up to a job. Because I'm 15 usually getting called for the hard things, you know. 16 Working on generators or, you know, I'm called in to 17 see what's going on. What's wrong. They rely on me
18 right away to look at that and give them the report. 19 Because the Army, they want to know right away. So -- 20 Q. Okay. So you mentioned you don't always have
21 a work order in hand. Do you have any responsibilities 22 as a City electrician, just when you're around city
23 premises, is there any duties or responsibilities or 24 anything like that that you -- that you perform?
25 A. Well, I mean, if there's a problem that I
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1 see, I write it up, call it in, and we get to it when 2 we can. If it's an emergency thing and we need to take 3 care of it right away, we take care of it right away at 4 the city and the Army.
5 At this specific time and nature, we were
6 short two electricians for two years. Since I left,
7 they hired three more electricians, so there's four
8 now. So we were overwhelmed with work for about two
9 years straight, where -- me and the other electrician. 10 I'm the only licensed certified one there. I have my 11 contractor's license. But I've had that for 20 years. 12 But we were overwhelmed, I guess you would
13 say. Stressed out. We kept asking for help. Asking
14 for help. And they kept telling us that there's
15 people we're going to hire and they're coming. They're 16 coming. For about two years, we were doing two guys' 17 worth of work every day.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Balthrop --
19 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
20 THE ARBITRATOR: It's okay. I just want to
21 be aware. If you can stick to the -- I appreciate that 22 you're --
23 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
24 THE ARBITRATOR: -- the long time you're
25 there means you have a lot of knowledge and history
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1 about the work. If you would just limit your answers
2 to the questions --
3 THE WITNESS: Okay.
4 THE ARBITRATOR: -- that Mr. Porter is
5 asking.
6 THE WITNESS: Okay.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Go ahead, Mr. Porter.
8 BY MR. PORTER:
9 Q. I'm going to go ahead and move on
10 specifically to the -- well, I guess before I get to 11 the December 2022 incident, can you just generally tell 12 me about your relationship -- or your professional
13 relationship or interactions with Leslie Fraide and who 14 that is.
15 A. Sure. Yeah. I was -- I went to -- the day
16 she started working there. Her first day. There was
17 other ladies that worked there. We're all friends.
18 We'd see each other on a daily basis and we'd get a
19 sandwich. Say hi. You know, she was always nice. I
20 never had any problems with Leslie or the other girls. 21 Q. Okay.
22 A. They're really nice.
23 Q. During --
24 A. Go ahead. Sorry.
25 Q. During any of these interactions, can you
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1 recall or do you know if there was any offensive
2 exchanges? Or were you ever told that what you were
3 saying was rude? I just want to know about the nature 4 of these conversations.
5 A. Oh, no. We laughed and joked. Every time we
6 said hi and thank you and everything was always
7 positive. I've never said anything negative to anybody 8 that worked there.
9 Q. So I'm going to move on to specifically the
10 incident at question, which is December 2022 at the
11 Subway at the Presidio involving your interaction with 12 Ms. Fraide. Can you provide a summary or your
13 perspective on what happened that day.
14 A. Yeah. Well, basically, it was stormy.
15 Raining. Kind of windy. And we lose power a lot up
16 there when that happens. So I know that because I've 17 been there so long and I've been in so many situations 18 where we lose power in the buildings.
19 So I was actually on my break. It was
20 10 o'clock. So I was going to go get a sandwich and
21 walk around like we normally do every day for the last 22 20 years.
23 When I pulled up, I could see the door open
24 to Subway and I saw two lights. And it looked like
25 they had flickered. Like went off and on real quick. 139
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1 Q. When you say the door opened, which door are
2 you referring to?
3 A. The back door to Subway was wide open.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. So I was able to see the lights from outside
6 when I pulled up in my truck. And that's the only
7 reason I went that way is because I thought I saw them 8 flicker.
9 Well, recently, they had put in $200,000 of
10 electric work to that facility to accommodate a backup 11 generator. It's a commissary and they have a quarter 12 million dollars of refrigerated goods that are there, 13 and those could go bad if the building goes out of
14 power for too long. It's kind of a high priority level 15 building for us maintenancewise. So that's why I got a 16 little worried when I saw the flicker. Because if the 17 power flickers three times, the reclosure stays open 18 and you lose power completely until they clear the
19 fault. That could be hours or days.
20 My concern was if they do lose the power,
21 then I'm going to have to have a generator brought over 22 or rent one, hook it all up and get the building back 23 on power.
24 So I immediately focused on my job and I
25 didn't care about getting a sandwich at that point.
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1 Because I thought I was going to be in for a hard day. 2 That's when I walked towards the door and I was looking 3 at the lights to see if they're going to flicker two
4 more times.
5 That's when I walked through the back door,
6 when I was looking up at the lights, and that's when
7 Ms. Leslie said, hey, what are you doing? You can't
8 walk through the back door. Aysel said you guys can't 9 go through there anymore. And I said I haven't been
10 through this door in 20 years, but I'm checking out the 11 lights because I thought I saw them flicker.
12 Then she turned around and said, no, you're
13 not. You're lying. You're not here to look at the
14 lights. You just didn't want to walk around. And I
15 said no, Ms. Leslie. I'm seriously -- I'm looking at 16 the lights. And she said you're not looking at the
17 lights. You don't even have a work order in your hand. 18 I said, well, Ms. Leslie, we don't always carry work 19 orders with us because of the rain. They're paper.
20 They'll get all messed up. I said, you know, I'm
21 checking to see if I might have to bring a generator 22 here. She said no, you're lying. She said you just
23 didn't want to walk around. Like that.
24 I looked around and she was the only one
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1 any mopping going on.
2 Anyway, I started walking in and she said
3 Aysel said you can't come through the back door no
4 more. I briefly laughed and I go -- I didn't say "tell 5 Aysel she can suck it," I said "Aysel can suck it."
6 Like that. Joking around like that. She can kiss my
7 butt. It wasn't nothing sexual towards her at all. It 8 wasn't even directed at her.
9 So that's when I walked in. And then I --
10 right when I was coming in, I saw Mr. Sanchez and
11 Brown. His best friend that works with him every day. 12 They were at the register. They had just ordered a
13 sandwich. Mr. Brown did. And she handed him the
14 sandwich and his change. And they were both leaving
15 and walking away when I was walking in.
16 So I don't know if they stopped somewhere in
17 the middle of the PX area and were listening or what. 18 I don't know that because I couldn't see them. But
19 that's when I started talking with her. And that's -- 20 I didn't -- I thought they had left. They probably
21 did. I don't know for sure if they left or not. But I 22 saw them turn the corner, like they were walking back 23 to leave in their vehicles.
24 So that's when I got a sandwich. I asked her
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1 for it. As I was walking away, I went with my hand, I 2 gestured to the outside of my leg and said I'm out.
3 Like that. I did no gesture to my groin at all.
4 Q. Let met just ask to kind of clarify. Do you
5 remember making a gesture at all when you said she can 6 suck it? Referring to Aysel Gan.
7 A. No. Absolutely not. And I didn't say to
8 tell her she can suck it. I said "Aysel can suck it"
9 and I walked through. I didn't do any kind of gesture 10 to my groin at all. That's when I felt I had to talk 11 to the doctor and said they're not believing me. I
12 can't do it if I wanted to do it. I'm 349 pounds and 13 five foot nine. So there's no way possible I could do 14 it anyway if I any wanted to. But they still didn't
15 believe me.
16 Q. So while we're mentioning it, we can bring up
17 Exhibit A. Our Union's Exhibit A. Let me see if I can 18 share screen real quick and get this up.
19 MS. HURTADO: I would object to this exhibit
20 at this time.
21 THE ARBITRATOR: What basis?
22 MS. HURTADO: Lacks foundation and it's
23 hearsay.
24 THE ARBITRATOR: Well, I'm going to allow him
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1 ruling on the objections. Go ahead.
2 BY MR. PORTER:
3 Q. Mr. Balthrop, are you able to see it?
4 A. Yeah, I can see it. I can barely read it. I
5 have to blow it up.
6 Q. So I've scrolled down to -- this is Union
7 Exhibit A. Are you able to see what this is?
8 A. Yes. It's a letter from my doctor that I
9 have seen for the last four years that gives me
10 physicals every year.
11 Q. What does this note explain or how do you
12 know that's what this is?
13 A. Because I told him what I was being accused
14 of and I told him I can't even do it. And he checked 15 me and I couldn't do it. Physically, it's impossible 16 for me to do it. I didn't know of any other way to
17 show the City and them that I'm being honest but to
18 bring a letter from the doctor that checked me.
19 Q. Okay. And when did you receive this letter?
20 A. I think it was after the first -- when they
21 said I was terminated. And then it was before the
22 Skelly hearing. Three to four weeks.
23 MR. PORTER: Okay. At this point in time,
24 I'd like to have Union's Exhibit A moved into evidence. 25 MS. HURTADO: Same objections.
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1 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. I'm going to admit it
2 but it's obviously subject to argument about its
3 relevance and materiality in this matter.
4 MR. PORTER: Okay.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: That is Exhibit A. Correct?
6 MR. PORTER: Yes. Exhibit A.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Admitted.
8 (Union Exhibit A received into evidence)
9 MR. PORTER: While I'm sharing my screen and
10 have it going, I'm going to show Mr. Balthrop a few of 11 the other exhibits just for expediency sake. And we
12 can try to lay the foundation for these various other 13 documents.
14 BY MR. PORTER:
15 Q. Mr. Balthrop, I've scrolled down to what is
16 marked as Union's Exhibit B. And do you see this
17 document in front of you?
18 A. Yes, I do.
19 Q. I'll scroll down a bit more. What is this
20 document?
21 A. That was an employee of the year award I got
22 in 2005.
23 Q. Okay. Can you describe -- and just for my
24 own clarification, I'll scroll down a bit further. And 25 this is a picture. Is this a picture of you receiving 145
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1 that award or is this a different award?
2 A. No, that's a different award. That was an
3 award for work excellence for the military base. We
4 had some power problems and we got the base back
5 online. I have seven of those awards from seven
6 different colonels.
7 Q. I see. And I realize --
8 MS. HURTADO: I'm going to object. That's
9 hearsay. Move to strike that.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
11 MR. PORTER: And I realize -- I apologize,
12 Arbitrator Dooley. I think you already said that
13 Exhibits B, C and D inasmuch as they're involved and 14 included in Mr. Balthrop's personnel file are already 15 admitted?
16 THE ARBITRATOR: That's correct.
17 MR. PORTER: Okay.
18 THE WITNESS: There's -- one of the pictures
19 was for pulling a 70-year-old lady out of a burning car 20 on the Presidio during duty and the colonel came and 21 gave me and another guy an award. I pulled her out and 22 he put the fire out, which saved a lot of damage.
23 MS. HURTADO: Again, move to strike.
24 Hearsay.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
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1 BY MR. PORTER:
2 Q. Well, what I'm going to do is I want to go
3 back to your -- apologize here. Stop sharing.
4 Mr. Balthrop, I'll ask you some questions
5 about some of those awards and some other things in a 6 little bit. I want to continue on with the line of
7 questioning I was asking you about regarding the
8 December 2022 incident. So I wanted to get your
9 response. How did you feel during the incident and
10 immediately after the incident?
11 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Vague and
12 overbroad.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled. To the extent
14 you recall.
15 THE WITNESS: Well, I can tell you the truth.
16 My feelings are a little hurt when she was accusing me 17 of lying. Because I thought she was -- I considered
18 her a friend. But immediately after I said that and I 19 sat down, I started thinking about it and I really
20 started to think I shouldn't have done that.
21 And I have had some medical issues here the
22 last year and a half with sleep apnea and stress that 23 probably didn't help me make that right decision on
24 that date. But, you know, if I could go back, I would 25 never do that again, I can tell you that much.
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1 BY MR. PORTER:
2 Q. Okay. I'm going to move on and ask you a few
3 questions about the fact-finding interview you had with 4 Mr. Rose. So do you recall having that interview with 5 Mr. Rose and Mr. Heron was present?
6 A. I do. I do. One thing he didn't mention was
7 I recalled him thanking me and Ryan for being honest
8 during the interview.
9 Q. Okay. Was that at the end of the interview?
10 A. That was -- yeah. Yeah, it was. He said I
11 want to thank you for being honest and, you know,
12 giving the truth. I said yeah, I told you everything 13 that I know of to be true.
14 Q. Okay.
15 A. Then they -- I don't know.
16 Q. All right. So, Mr. Balthrop, I'm going to
17 ask you some questions specifically about what you were 18 telling Mr. Rose during especially the first section of 19 the interview. Were you withholding information from 20 Mr. Rose during the course of that interview?
21 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Overbroad.
22 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled. Go ahead.
23 THE WITNESS: No. Not at all. The fact was
24 I just -- at that time I just couldn't remember because 25 it was quite a bit later from the incident. And to be 148
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1 honest with you, I wasn't trying to remember the
2 incident. I didn't think it was that big of a deal. I 3 wasn't focusing it like a sexual harassment towards her 4 or anything like that. Or bullying. I wasn't trying
5 to be mean to her. I was basically saying Aysel can
6 kiss my butt.
7 I'm really sorry she took it that way and,
8 you know. So I was trying to remember exactly what
9 took place. And then Mr. Rose, he asked if we would
10 like to take a break, and me and Ryan said yeah. And 11 then we took the break and we were talking. And then 12 it came into my mind the whole image exactly what
13 happened. I was like oh, man. Okay. I did say that.
14 I remember -- I remembered completely. And Ryan
15 agreed. He said tell the truth. It's the best.
16 I went in and said Mr. Rose -- right away --
17 I said I recalled what happened. I did say that to
18 her, but I did not do the V thing to my crotch. So
19 that was immediately when we came back from break.
20 He didn't ask me if I said that to her until
21 like 55 minutes into the interview. I wasn't lying to 22 him. He was just asking me random questions. Like do 23 you work for the City of Monterey? Yeah. Are you an
24 electrician? Yeah. He was asking all those questions 25 that took up, like, 45 minutes before he even asked me. 149
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1 So I wasn't being dishonest for an hour and
2 20 minutes. He didn't ask me until, like, 45 minutes
3 into it. And then I couldn't really remember until we 4 took the break and it came to me. And I was like, oh, 5 man. I need to tell him the truth. That's when I did. 6 And then they said I was dishonest.
7 BY MR. PORTER:
8 Q. Mr. Balthrop, prior to this, have you been
9 involved with any other fact-finding interviews before? 10 A. Just one. I was questioned about a
11 supervisor, Dan Lim, who had some things that he was 12 doing which he ended up getting terminated for --
13 Q. You don't need to go into details about the
14 nature of it. I just wanted to know --
15 A. It wasn't about me, though.
16 Q. During this fact-finding interview, were you
17 nervous?
18 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Leading.
19 THE WITNESS: I wasn't nervous. I just
20 couldn't remember exactly --
21 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Balthrop, hold on a
22 second.
23 THE WITNESS: Okay.
24 THE ARBITRATOR: When Ms. Hurtado makes an
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1 fault. Give me a moment to rule on her objection and
2 then I'll let you know whether you should go ahead and 3 answer.
4 THE WITNESS: Okay. Sorry.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm going to overrule that
6 objection and let you continue. But this is an unusual 7 process and it can be a little bit nerve-racking. So
8 please do listen to the question and only answer the
9 question that's posed. Okay?
10 THE WITNESS: Okay.
11 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Porter, would you
12 restate your question, please.
13 MR. PORTER: Yeah. I'll restate it and maybe
14 rephrase it a little better.
15 BY MR. PORTER:
16 Q. Mr. Balthrop, can you describe if there was
17 anything going on either in your personal life or
18 around your feelings regarding this matter during your 19 interview with Mr. Rose that could have impacted your 20 recollection or ability to articulate your thoughts? 21 MS. HURTADO: Again, leading.
22 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled. Go ahead.
23 THE WITNESS: Like I said, I've been
24 struggling with sleep apnea for a year. They just
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1 I've been having trouble sleeping. Waking up five, six 2 times a night for the last year. So -- so it's caused 3 me that my thinking is not as clear sometimes during
4 the day as it should be if I was rested.
5 But I honestly couldn't remember when he
6 asked me at the time, so then they came to me after the 7 break so I told them the truth.
8 BY MR. PORTER:
9 Q. I'm going to move on a bit to the Skelly
10 hearing you had with Ms. Renny sometime later after
11 that. Can you describe that Skelly hearing and your
12 perspective on that.
13 A. It was basically like the first one. I just
14 was able to provide the letter from the doctor showing 15 that I physically couldn't do the gesture that they
16 were accusing me of. And I tried to tell them that I 17 couldn't do that. And they basically didn't offer any 18 other solution. Any kind of, you know, classes or
19 anything to help me. And they basically just went with 20 the original findings, which was to terminate me. So 21 other than that --
22 Q. Mr. Balthrop, did you request any lesser
23 level of disciplines or any other corrective
24 disciplines?
25 A. Yes, I did. I apologize for what I did. I
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1 know it was wrong. I shouldn't have done it. I'd
2 never do it again. I told them that. And I told them
3 that I would be willing to do anything that they wanted 4 me to do to keep my job. Classes. Time off without
5 pay. You know, anything, basically, other than
6 termination. And basically they said no.
7 Q. Kind of in conclusion and the last little
8 topics of questions I'll be asking you. Can you
9 describe how this process, specifically this
10 disciplinary process for this disciplinary issue has 11 impacted your life?
12 A. Yeah. I haven't -- been barely paying my
13 bills for the last six --
14 MS. HURTADO: I'm sorry. I'm going to object
15 as to relevance and move to strike.
16 THE ARBITRATOR: What is the relevance of
17 this line of questioning?
18 MR. PORTER: So I'm specifically asking -- or
19 I was hoping to ask about Mr. Balthrop's understanding 20 of the harassment policy and whether or not this
21 disciplinary process, in kind of reflecting back on his 22 interactions -- or his interaction with Ms. Fraide has 23 shaped his opinion or understanding of these policies 24 moving forward.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: Well, I'm going to sustain
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1 the objection because it seems like it was more asking 2 about the remedy component that isn't before me at this 3 time. So, you know, the fact that he has formed a
4 different opinion about the policy after being
5 discharged, I'm not sure that that's going to be
6 elicited -- if it's relevant, it's not going to be
7 elicited by the question you asked. Go ahead and ask
8 another question.
9 MR. PORTER: I'll ask a new question kind of
10 this way.
11 BY MR. PORTER:
12 Q. Mr. Balthrop, what is your current
13 understanding of the City's anti-harassment policy?
14 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Relevance.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
16 THE WITNESS: I know there's policies in
17 place to, you know, stop people from doing things like 18 this. And there are consequences. I understand. But
19 I -- since I've been at the City, I've witnessed many 20 people do far worse things and they're still working 21 there. And I feel like I wasn't given an opportunity 22 or at least one chance to apologize to her or to
23 correct my actions at all.
24 And I feel like they didn't listen to
25 anything I had to say, you know, even though I'm
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1 telling the truth. They just wanted to fire me, it
2 seemed like. But I am willing to change. I'm willing
3 to take classes or do whatever.
4 MR. PORTER: Okay. All right. I have no
5 other questions at this time. Mr. Balthrop, can you
6 hear me okay? Are you still there?
7 THE WITNESS: Sorry. You blacked out there.
8 Yeah, I'm here.
9 MR. PORTER: I was just saying I don't have
10 any other questions at this time.
11 THE WITNESS: Okay. Free for me to --
12 THE ARBITRATOR: Hang on, Mr. Balthrop.
13 Ms. Hurtado, do you want to take a break and
14 do cross after lunch?
15 MS. HURTADO: Yes, please. For the sake of
16 everyone.
17 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. We're going to take a
18 lunch break. About an hour, give or take. We can try 19 and come back early.
20 And at that point, Mr. Balthrop,
21 Ms. Hurtado's going ask you some questions. I would
22 just ask that you not discuss any of your testimony
23 with anyone until she's had an opportunity to ask you 24 some questions about your answers to Mr. Porter. Okay? 25 THE WITNESS: Sure.
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1 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. We're on recess until
2 about 2:15.
3 ***
4 (LUNCHEON RECESS)
5 ***
6 THE ARBITRATOR: Back on the record.
7 Why don't you restate that objection,
8 Ms. Hurtado.
9 MS. HURTADO: The City of Monterey is going
10 to object to the Union's Exhibits B, C and D. They are 11 not in Mr. Balthrop's personnel file. And we do not
12 have an objection to Exhibit F, as in Frank, because 13 that is in his personnel file.
14 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. I am still going
15 to -- I'm going to admit them for a couple reasons.
16 One, it appears that the first one is a website
17 maintained by the City of Monterey. That it may not be 18 in your -- you know, it's 2005 so it may not be
19 published any longer. It's also 2005, so it may have 20 pretty distant relevance or none at all to the matter 21 before us.
22 And the additional two were generated from a
23 third party. I don't think that Mr. Balthrop
24 fabricated those. I'm also -- I mean, I think that
25 they're real. He received them for his work and so
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1 forth. They relate to his work performance and
2 relationship with the military base that he's
3 occasionally performed work on. This isn't a complaint 4 about his work performance. And this is, you know, of 5 a piece of what you said, which is that there is work 6 performed on a military base and that that is a part of 7 the general concern that the City has about whether the 8 military will continue to trust the services.
9 So I'm going to admit them. I'm not sure to
10 the degree that they have any relevance in this matter. 11 But for the purpose of allowing Mr. Balthrop to make a 12 complete record, I'm going to permit them to be a part 13 of the record for consideration by the City counsel, if 14 necessary.
15 (Union Exhibits E and F received into
16 evidence)
17 MS. HURTADO: And the only other thing I
18 would state is that, for instance, Exhibit F is a 2013 19 evaluation, which is now 11 years old, so it would be 20 somewhat remote and irrelevant. And I would join in
21 that assessment that most of these documents are old 22 and irrelevant to the proceedings here.
23 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Balthrop, I'll let
24 Mr. Porter ask you any follow-up questions. I will
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1 since your stipulation will not allow additional
2 evidence and this is something that Mr. Balthrop and
3 the Union have identified as something that they would 4 like to be in the record, I'm going to permit that
5 record to exist. Whether it's ultimately a part of the 6 final determination remains to be seen.
7 MR. BALTHROP: Can I say one thing on that?
8 THE ARBITRATOR: Hold on a second.
9 Mr. Porter, do you want to add anything or
10 caucus with Mr. Balthrop to figure out if there's
11 any -- Mr. Balthrop, I am taking the documents. So I 12 don't want --
13 THE WITNESS: No, I --
14 THE ARBITRATOR: I don't want you to add
15 anything. I want to let Mr. Porter speak. And then we 16 can follow up with you as a witness.
17 Go ahead.
18 MR. PORTER: Yeah. I was going to ask
19 Mr. Balthrop a few follow-up questions as to his entire 20 history of evaluations and what they have indicated. 21 Even the more recent evaluations. Of course, the
22 weight, you know, that you and counsel want to put on 23 those testimonies is fine.
24 But maybe I can take a brief caucus with
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1 his mind or if he has any additional concerns or ideas, 2 just because I want to make sure that he has an
3 opportunity to articulate anything like that.
4 THE ARBITRATOR: Yeah. And I just -- I just
5 want to remind the parties that I understand that this 6 is not a matter about Mr. Balthrop's capacity as an
7 electrician or his work performance. We're focused
8 solely on this individual event and not more broadly
9 what his job performance was. So I don't want to spend 10 a lot of time other than to ensure that the record is 11 just clear and clean, so to speak. Okay?
12 MR. PORTER: Right.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: So I'm going to open up two
14 breakout rooms. And, Ms. Hurtado, you may not need it, 15 in which case you don't have to use it. But I'll open 16 one.
17 And Mr. Balthrop and Mr. Porter, you can go
18 into the Union breakout room. And Mr. Balthrop, let me 19 know if you need assistance because I can put you in 20 the room.
21 MR. BALTHROP: Okay. Let me see. Okay.
22 THE ARBITRATOR: Off the record.
23 (Recess)
24 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Porter, before we go to
25 cross-examination, do you have a few follow-up
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1 questions for Mr. Balthrop?
2 MR. PORTER: Yes, I do.
3 4 CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. PORTER:
6 Q. Mr. Balthrop, I'm going to ask you a few
7 questions regarding the work evaluations you've
8 received from the City as a city electrician. What is 9 the last performance evaluation you received from the 10 City?
11 MS. HURTADO: For the record, I'm going to
12 object as to relevance.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Overruled. Go ahead.
14 THE WITNESS: I have not received an
15 evaluation since 2017. We were supposed to get them
16 every year but they just fly by it.
17 BY MR. PORTER:
18 Q. Okay. What were the remarks from the City or
19 from your supervisor who was evaluating you? What was 20 that evaluation, according to your understanding?
21 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Hearsay. Lack of
22 foundation. And there's no exhibit that I've been
23 provided.
24 THE ARBITRATOR: It is hearsay. I'm going to
25 allow you to answer, but just --
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1 THE WITNESS: I have copies of all the
2 evaluations up until the last one I got. I just have
3 to dig them out in storage. That one you have is
4 identical to every one I've gotten. Straight As. I've 5 never had a bad evaluation.
6 BY MR. PORTER:
7 Q. When you say the one we have, is that the one
8 that has been admitted as Union Exhibit F, which is the 9 2013 performance evaluation?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Perhaps I'll share screen for a bit just so
12 we can reference the exact document that we're talking 13 about.
14 THE ARBITRATOR: It's admitted.
15 MR. PORTER: Okay.
16 THE ARBITRATOR: I don't need you to read
17 from it.
18 MR. PORTER: I'm not going read from the
19 contents, but I think this could be helpful as to show 20 the relevance of these performance evaluations.
21 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay.
22 MR. PORTER: This will be really brief.
23 BY MR. PORTER:
24 Q. Mr. Balthrop, this has already been admitted
25 as Union Exhibit F. I want to just go down
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1 specifically to point Number 6 here.
2 A. Okay.
3 Q. What is this topic of Number 6? What is this
4 specifically evaluating?
5 A. Ability to work with others.
6 Q. Okay. And can you describe what this
7 evaluation specifically remarks -- or what -- what the 8 evaluation was regarding your ability to work with
9 others in this specific example?
10 A. With other employees in my department, other
11 departments and our customers. The Army and the
12 public. Overall evaluation of that.
13 MR. PORTER: Okay. I'll stop sharing now.
14 So according to your -- well, I'll just leave
15 it at that. I think that speaks for itself. I don't
16 have any other questions at this time on direct
17 examination.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you. Ms. Hurtado, are
19 you ready to go?
20 MS. HURTADO: Yes. Thank you.
21 THE ARBITRATOR: Go ahead.
22 23 CROSS-EXAMINATION
24 BY MS. HURTADO:
25 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Balthrop.
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1 A. Hello.
2 Q. You said that after the incident at the
3 Subway, your feelings were hurt?
4 A. At the time, more or less, they were hurt
5 because she was saying that I was lying when I was
6 telling her I was trying to do my job. Because I
7 consider her as a good friend, and it kind of hurt my 8 feelings that she was talking to me in that manner.
9 Calling me a liar. Saying that I didn't have a work
10 order. I'm lying and making it seem that I was lazy
11 and I didn't want to walk around like I had been doing 12 for the last 20 years. When I was really there trying 13 to do my job. Trying to prevent a power outage or, you 14 know, the food from spoiling to the facility. So that 15 kind of hurt my feelings, yes. A little bit.
16 Q. In your mind, is it acceptable to talk to
17 your friends that way?
18 A. No. No. And I didn't -- I wasn't directing
19 that at her at all. That's where everything kind of
20 got worked around. I was mainly directing it, like, to 21 Aysel. We have had problems in the past where she's
22 gotten our employees in trouble and -- for doing things 23 they weren't supposed to do. And she knew they weren't 24 supposed to do it and she asked them to do it anyway. 25 And the Army got mad at her, as well as our employees. 163
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1 Other instances also with her interaction
2 with the people that she rents to. Which, like, at the 3 video game store, I witnessed her pull out seven
4 sections of video games and move them and set them on 5 the floor. And then she was trying to show me
6 something. An electrical outlet that she had removed. 7 And then I said, well, this is done by your contractor, 8 we're not responsible for this. And then she goes, oh, 9 okay.
10 She started walking out and the guy that
11 works there said, ma'am, are you going put those back? 12 And she looked at him and laughed at him and said no, 13 you are and just walked out. Which -- and he was,
14 like, that's so rude. And I was, like, wow. I've seen 15 her be rude to other people as well and other things 16 too. I don't have a super high regard for her as far 17 as that goes.
18 Q. Thank you for that explanation. Let's go to
19 December 2022. You were on duty, you said, about to go 20 on a break?
21 A. Yeah. 10 o'clock. Our break time.
22 Q. And you were dressed in your City of Monterey
23 uniform?
24 A. Yes, ma'am.
25 Q. Can you describe what your uniform looks
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1 like.
2 A. It is blue -- navy blue in color, blue pants,
3 lighter blue shirt and navy blue jacket with a City of 4 Monterey emblem and my name.
5 Q. That's what you were wearing that day?
6 A. Yes. Correct.
7 Q. And you were going to the Subway to get a
8 sandwich?
9 A. Originally, when I was -- when I first pulled
10 up, that was my intent was to do what I normally did. 11 Walk around, go get a sandwich, say hi to everybody and 12 go back to work. That was the intent. But it was
13 storming and raining and real windy. And that's --
14 when I pulled up to park, I saw the lights flickered 15 through the door. I could see two lights through the 16 door open.
17 Then I said I had to investigate because of
18 the amount of money in refrigerated goods at the PX. I 19 thought I was going to have to bring the generator
20 over.
21 Q. You said that's the reason you entered
22 through the back because you saw the lights flicker? 23 A. I thought they flickered once. So I was
24 walking in, looking to see if they do it two more
25 times. Because then they lose the whole building if
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1 they do it two more times.
2 Q. You could also have entered through the front
3 door to check the lights. Isn't that true?
4 A. I could have, but that would take a while to
5 get there and I wouldn't have seen the consecutiveness. 6 It has to happen within a 20-second period. It's a
7 timed mechanism in the high-voltage lines. So I only
8 have 20 seconds between the flickers to see if it's
9 going to go out or not. That's why I walked through
10 there.
11 Q. Ms. Fraide told you not to come in through
12 the back door --
13 A. As soon as I walked in, uh-huh.
14 Q. Just let me finish my question. Okay?
15 A. Okay.
16 Q. I'll try not to talk over you, and hopefully
17 you can do the same for me.
18 A. Yes, ma'am.
19 Q. You told her you were checking the lights and
20 she said you were lying. So that upset you?
21 A. A little bit, yeah. Because I have
22 integrity.
23 Q. And so you're upset. Then she told you you
24 need a work order to come in through the back. Isn't 25 it true you told her you had a work order?
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1 A. No. She said -- she didn't say that either.
2 She said, well, you don't even have a work order in
3 your hand. And I said, Leslie, we don't always have
4 work orders on us because they'll get messed up. Get
5 wet. And then -- we usually keep them in our truck or 6 at the office when we're out physically working so they 7 don't get damaged. Then when we're done working, we go 8 and fill them out. That's the normal procedure.
9 Q. Okay. So you're saying today that you never
10 told her you had a work order that day?
11 A. No. I didn't have a work order. It was an
12 emergency response to me at that time with the storm 13 going on, I can make my own work orders. I'm a
14 senior-level person there. So when I seen something
15 like that getting ready to happen, I already knew that 16 I might have to go into an emergency response to that 17 building. That's why I was looking into it.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. Even though it was break time, I was trying
20 to do my job.
21 Q. Okay. And so you also said she was not
22 mopping the floor and it was not wet when you walked 23 it?
24 A. No, ma'am. Not at all. She was the only one
25 there. And the floor was not wet and she was not
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1 mopping and the door was wide open.
2 Q. If she said that she was mopping and the
3 floor was wet, you're saying she's lying?
4 A. I don't know, ma'am. But I'm just saying
5 that that wasn't the case when I walked in there. And 6 she could be lying to cover up her getting in trouble 7 again. Because I'm aware that she's been written up
8 several times for keeping the door open. Because she
9 says it's too hot in there with the ovens, and it -- it 10 lets flies into the meat and stuff.
11 So I know her boss, which is David, and I've
12 seen him scolding her for that before when we were
13 there eating. So I know, you know, she's probably just 14 trying to cover it up so she doesn't get in trouble, 15 which I understand, I guess. I don't know.
16 Q. Okay. So your reasoning for why she would
17 lie about what you did and you said that day is because 18 she didn't --
19 A. I--
20 Q. Excuse me. Let me just finish the question.
21 I haven't finished my question.
22 A. I know, but you're --
23 Q. Let me finish the question. That's how it
24 works. Okay?
25 A. Sure. You got it.
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1 Q. So when you're saying -- what you're saying
2 is that she's lying because she didn't want to get in 3 trouble for leaving the door open, and that's why she's 4 lying about what you said and you did?
5 MR. PORTER: Objection. Misstates testimony.
6 THE WITNESS: I didn't say that, number
7 one --
8 MR. PORTER: Jerod, hold on. I made an
9 objection.
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to
11 sustain the objection. Can you reask the question.
12 MS. HURTADO: Yes.
13 BY MS. HURTADO:
14 Q. So you're saying that Ms. Fraide lied about
15 mopping the floor and that the floor was wet. And
16 you're saying she's lying because she didn't want to 17 get in trouble for leaving the back door open. Is that 18 what you're saying?
19 A. Again, yes. Probably. That's my
20 guesstimation, yes.
21 Q. And you also say that she's lying about the
22 motion that you made towards your groin. Correct?
23 THE WITNESS: She didn't --
24 MR. PORTER: Objection. Hold on, Jerod.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: What's the objection?
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1 MR. PORTER: It also misstates his prior
2 testimony.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Well, I'm going -- he can
4 say that if it's -- go ahead. Overruled. Go ahead.
5 THE WITNESS: Her testimony didn't say that I
6 did that.
7 BY MS. HURTADO:
8 Q. I'm asking if you're saying she's lying about
9 the motion that you made towards your groin when you
10 said Aysel can suck it -- "tell Aysel she can suck it"? 11 A. Number one, she didn't say that I did that.
12 She said I hit my leg or something. Number two, I'm
13 saying I didn't do the motion. I don't recall doing
14 anything in that manner. And I didn't do anything -- 15 after I said Aysel could suck it, I walked over and I 16 ordered a sandwich.
17 Q. Okay. So today you're saying that you said
18 "Aysel can suck it"?
19 A. I did say that, yes. And -- I'm sorry.
20 Q. And you're denying that you said "Tell Aysel
21 she can suck it"?
22 A. Yes. I didn't say "Tell Aysel she can suck
23 it." I just said "Aysel can suck it."
24 Q. Didn't you tell Mr. Rose towards the end of
25 your interview that you did say "Tell Aysel she can
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1 suck it"?
2 A. Nope. I told my -- I said "Aysel can suck
3 it." That's what I said.
4 Q. Okay.
5 A. Somebody put "tell Aysel." It wasn't me.
6 Q. Okay. I haven't asked you a question. Hold
7 on one second. Okay? I have to ask you a question and 8 then you answer that. That's how it goes.
9 So I just want to clarify what you're saying
10 today. So you said today that as you were leaving the 11 Subway after the incident where you made the comment 12 about Aysel, you said "I'm out" and you gestured
13 towards your leg. Is that what I heard you say today? 14 A. I said after I ordered my sandwich, which
15 took her about four minutes to make and nobody else was 16 there, I paid for the sandwich, politely told her thank 17 you. And then I walked away, turned, and I went with 18 my hand and my sandwich in my pocket, and I said "I'm 19 out" and I rubbed my leg on the side. That's what I
20 recall I did. If they turned that into some kind of
21 sexual gesture, I don't know why they would do that but 22 that's what happened. To my recollection.
23 Q. But you never told Mr. Rose that version, did
24 you?
25 A. That's what I told Mr. Rose in the first --
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1 the first meeting with him. I told him what I said,
2 what I did, and I told him I made reference to my leg, 3 I believe, and that's what I told him.
4 Q. Well, actually what you told him at the
5 beginning of your interview for the first hour and a
6 half is that you denied the entire thing. You said it 7 never happened. She's lying --
8 A. I --
9 Q. Isn't that -- wait. Let me finish.
10 A. Okay.
11 Q. Isn't that what you told him during the first
12 hour and 20 minutes of your interview?
13 A. No, I never told him that I didn't do
14 anything. What I told him is I don't remember saying 15 that to her. I don't remember exactly what happened
16 that day because it was like six or seven months later. 17 Then he started -- for the first 50 minutes, he asked 18 me where I worked. What was my position. He didn't
19 even ask me that question until we were like 55 minutes 20 into the interview. And then out of the blue, he goes 21 did you walk into Subway and tell her "Aysel can suck 22 it"? And I was, like, oh, man. I don't remember. I
23 don't remember saying that. And then I honestly didn't 24 remember at the time.
25 Then Mr. Rose said, would you guys like to
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1 take a break and we said, yeah. And then we took a
2 break. And while we were discussing things, it came
3 into my mind exactly me and her discussion. And I told 4 Ryan, I said you know what, I did say that to her. I
5 remember now I told her that. But I did not do the
6 other thing they're saying. He said you need to let
7 Mr. Rose know and tell him the truth, and that's what I 8 did.
9 Q. Okay. Actually, what your recorded statement
10 shows at minute 11:20 of Part 2 is that the security 11 guards were not there and that Leslie is lying about 12 the whole thing.
13 A. The security guards were there at the
14 beginning when I first walked through the door. She
15 was handing them their change and a sandwich, and they 16 were walking away as I walked in. It was Mr. Sanchez 17 and the other guy, Mr. Brown. They were walking around 18 the corner. I didn't see them anymore. They could not 19 see me.
20 So if they stopped in the middle of the
21 breezeway -- in the middle of the area and they were 22 listening, they could have. I don't know. I couldn't 23 see them. Because once you turn the corner after you 24 get your sandwich, you're basically going down a long 25 hallway. It's open with stores. It's like a mall.
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1 You can't see anything once you turn the corner.
2 Q. You heard Lieutenant Sanchez testify today
3 that he was there and he saw the whole thing --
4 A. I knew --
5 Q. Hold on. I haven't asked a question. Are
6 you saying he's lying about being there and witnessing 7 the entire incident between you and Ms. Fraide?
8 A. I'm not saying anybody is a liar. I'm just
9 telling the truth of what happened that I recall.
10 Q. You recall he was not there?
11 A. I recall he was there when I first walked in
12 the door. And they got their change and sandwich right 13 when I walked in. She was handing it to them and then 14 they left, where I couldn't see them anymore.
15 Q. So you're saying he was not present to
16 witness this incident between you and Ms. Fraide?
17 A. No. I didn't -- I didn't see him there.
18 Like I said, unless he was standing around the corner 19 listening. He couldn't see us from -- I couldn't see 20 him. Typically when they go get food over there, they 21 leave right away because they only get, like, 30
22 minutes to eat. I've never seen a guard sit there and 23 eat after they order. Ever in my whole time. I have
24 23 years of being there. They only get a small amount 25 of time.
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1 Q. If Lieutenant Sanchez testified today under
2 oath that he did see this interaction, you're saying
3 he's lying, then?
4 A. I'm saying he's giving you his recollection
5 and I'm giving you mine.
6 Q. Okay. So why would he lie about something
7 like that under oath?
8 MR. PORTER: Objection --
9 MS. HURTADO: According to you.
10 MR. PORTER: Objection. Asking for
11 speculation.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: I'm sustaining that
13 objection. He didn't say lied. He said he's recalling 14 what he recalled and Mr. Balthrop's recalling what he 15 recalls.
16 BY MS. HURTADO:
17 Q. Okay. So you're saying your recollection is
18 different from two other witnesses. Is that what
19 you're saying?
20 A. No. It's not. I did say "Aysel can suck
21 it." That's true. The other two people were not
22 saying the same thing either. So I don't know what
23 you're talking about as far as that goes. There's only 24 one thing that I did say, and I did say it and I admit 25 it and both of the people said I said that. That, I
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1 will admit to.
2 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Balthrop, there's no
3 question pending.
4 THE WITNESS: Okay.
5 THE ARBITRATOR: Go ahead, Ms. Hurtado.
6 BY MS. HURTADO:
7 Q. At the end of your interview -- so after you
8 took a break, at the end of your interview with
9 Mr. Rose after you took a break, you did admit that you 10 told Ms. Fraide, "Tell Aysel she can suck it" and you 11 motioned towards your knee. Isn't that true?
12 A. No, I didn't say tell Aysel. I said "Aysel
13 can suck it" nonchalantly. Not towards her. I didn't 14 want her to go run and tell her. I just said "Aysel
15 can suck it" because she's just a pain in the butt and 16 she lies. I didn't care much for her. That's why I
17 said that. I wasn't meaning it towards Leslie at all. 18 At all --
19 Q. I'm not trying to cut you off but do I need
20 you to listen to my question and answer that. Okay?
21 A. I answered it already --
22 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Balthrop, stop. Stop.
23 There's not a question right now.
24 THE WITNESS: Okay.
25 THE ARBITRATOR: Go ahead, Ms. Hurtado. Ask
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1 a question.
2 BY MS. HURTADO:
3 Q. At your Skelly hearing, you never said that
4 your -- that you motioned to your leg and said "I'm
5 out" as you were leaving. You never said that at your 6 Skelly. Isn't that true?
7 A. I may have said that. I think -- I remember
8 motioning to my knee four minutes later after I said
9 that. I did not do any gesture right after I said that 10 to her. I told them that in the hearing as well. I'm 11 telling you the same thing. It was four minutes later 12 and I had -- I said "I'm out." I have a sandwich in my 13 hand and I went like that, down on my leg and I left. 14 She was behind the counter. She couldn't even see me 15 anyway.
16 It's a made-up -- they're making this in
17 something that didn't even happen like that. It wasn't 18 sexual. I wasn't doing anything towards her in that
19 manner.
20 Q. Okay. Well, let's talk about the doctor's
21 note that you had your doctor prepare. You presented 22 that for the first time at your Skelly hearing. Isn't 23 that true?
24 A. Yes. Because they wouldn't believe me when I
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1 to give me a physical to show that I can't do it. And 2 he physically tested me and said, yeah, you're right. 3 You can't do it, so I'll write you a letter.
4 Q. You told him you needed this note so that you
5 could defend yourself at your Skelly hearing?
6 A. I asked him to give me a physical to see if
7 that was even possible. Nobody was listening to me
8 when I told them I couldn't do that.
9 Q. You knew you needed to justify your actions
10 at the Skelly hearing, so you presented this note to 11 show that you couldn't reach your groin area. Is that 12 what you're saying?
13 A. Well, I thought that if I showed them proof
14 that I can't physically do it, then maybe they would 15 listen and believe me. My own company I worked for for 16 23 years. They didn't believe anything I said.
17 Basically said oh, you're a pervert, is what you guys 18 are saying and fired me. I'm not like that. I didn't 19 do that.
20 I wanted to show something on my behalf to
21 show that I'm not lying. And that was, you know, one 22 way I thought if the doctor tests me and he gives me 23 the physical and says, yeah, Jerod can't physically do 24 it, which I can't, I thought maybe you guys would
25 believe me.
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1 Q. So you told him you needed a note to show
2 that you couldn't reach your groin area with your
3 hands. Is that what you told him?
4 A. I didn't tell him anything. I asked him for
5 his professional opinion on the matter and he wrote
6 that letter.
7 Q. Okay. And -- but despite that note that says
8 that you cannot make the shape of a V with your hands 9 in front of your groin area, you're still able to
10 perform your job duties. Right?
11 A. I am.
12 Q. Okay. So it's never been an issue for you?
13 A. No.
14 Q. The note says that you're not physically able
15 to put your hands together in the shape of a V over
16 your groin area. But didn't you admit to Mr. Rose
17 after your union rep --
18 A. 348 pounds. I'm five-foot-nine. My arms are
19 only so long. It's math. You can't do it standing up. 20 It's impossible for me to do that gesture.
21 Q. Okay. I was in the middle of a question.
22 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Balthrop --
23 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
24 THE ARBITRATOR: -- please let Ms. Hurtado
25 finish her question and listen to it and answer it.
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1 THE WITNESS: Okay.
2 BY MS. HURTADO:
3 Q. So your note says -- your doctor's note says
4 you're not physically able to put your hands together 5 in the shape of a V over your groin area. Didn't you
6 admit to Mr. Rose, after your union rep suggested it, 7 that you did do that in the same way that the wrestlers 8 on WWE do?
9 A. No. That's not what I told Mr. Rose.
10 Q. Okay. All right. So let's talk about the
11 security guards. Let me make sure I understand what
12 you're saying about the security guards. Are you
13 saying that Mr. -- Lieutenant Sanchez was or was not 14 present when you made that comment about Aysel to
15 Ms. Fraide?
16 MR. PORTER: Objection. Asked and answered.
17 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled. Go ahead.
18 BY MS. HURTADO:
19 Q. Can you answer the question, or do you need
20 me to repeat it?
21 A. I told you for the third time, when I walked
22 through the door, Mr. Sanchez and Mr. Brown were
23 standing at the register with Leslie and she was
24 handing them their change and their sandwich. They
25 took that from her.
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1 As I was walking through the door, she turned
2 around. They were walking away and they turned around 3 the corner to leave. I didn't see them anymore. Then
4 Leslie told me, hey, you can't walk through there.
5 That's what happened. So I don't know if they stopped 6 around the corner and were listening or if they left. 7 I just couldn't see them anymore.
8 Q. And what would be his motivation for lying
9 about being present when you did these gestures and you 10 made that comment?
11 MR. PORTER: Objection. Speculation. Asks
12 for speculation.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Sustained.
14 BY MS. HURTADO:
15 Q. Well, you had a theory, didn't you, when you
16 spoke to Mr. Rose about why Lieutenant Sanchez would 17 lie. What was your theory, do you remember?
18 A. Honestly, I didn't know. I couldn't base
19 Sanchez and Brown. But Mr. Brown, he had been kind of 20 rude to us for the last year and to a couple other guys 21 at my work for a couple years.
22 Q. Mr. Brown was not present at the Subway that
23 day. Isn't that right?
24 A. Yeah, he was. It was Mr. Sanchez and
25 Mr. Brown. They were there. He said that to you.
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1 They were there --
2 Q. I'm asking you if Mr. Brown was present when
3 you made this gesture and this comment to Ms. Fraide. 4 A. They were leaving right when I walked through
5 the door. So they could have stopped and they could
6 have been listening. I couldn't see them, is what I'm 7 telling you. I don't know if they were there or not.
8 They weren't in my sight. They weren't in the sight of 9 anyone. Me or her.
10 I was talking to her. I was at the back door
11 when I walked in. That's when we started
12 communicating, me and her. I'm not sure if they went 13 around the corner and stood there or left to go get in 14 their vehicle like everyone usually does.
15 Q. You were about to explain what would be their
16 motive for lying about -- or Lieutenant Sanchez's
17 motive for lying about what he saw.
18 MR. PORTER: Objection. This also asks for
19 speculation.
20 THE ARBITRATOR: Yeah. I'm going to sustain
21 that now. Don't need to answer, Mr. Balthrop.
22 BY MS. HURTADO:
23 Q. Didn't you tell Mr. Rose that you thought
24 that they had -- that Lieutenant Sanchez had some kind 25 of bias against you?
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1 A. Must be. I mean, why else would you make up
2 stories or whatever? I don't know. Maybe jealous.
3 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Balthrop --
4 Mr. Balthrop, we don't want you to speculate.
5 THE WITNESS: Well, that's --
6 THE ARBITRATOR: Then say I don't know. You
7 do not need to speculate. Only answer with facts from 8 your own personal knowledge. Do not speculate. Guess. 9 Anything like that.
10 THE WITNESS: Okay.
11 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay?
12 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
13 THE ARBITRATOR: Go ahead.
14 BY MS. HURTADO:
15 Q. Do you remember telling Mr. Rose that you
16 felt that Lieutenant Sanchez might be romantically
17 involved with Ms. Fraide and that's why he would lie 18 about what he saw?
19 A. Could be. I don't know. It's speculation.
20 I don't know why.
21 Q. I'm asking --
22 A. I don't know if they're seeing each other.
23 They go over there every day. We all do. It's the
24 only place to eat. The guards go there every day, just 25 like we do. All of our workers go there. No other
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1 place to eat on the base.
2 Q. When you told Mr. Rose that's why he would be
3 lying, you were speculating?
4 A. I told him I was speculating when I told him
5 that. I don't know. Maybe he seen her. I don't know.
6 Q. And the other reason you said Lieutenant
7 Sanchez might be lying is because you said he had some 8 kind of bias against you. Do you remember telling him 9 that?
10 A. He may. It seems like he does. Why else
11 would he say these things? I don't know. This is all 12 speculation that you're coming at me. Honestly, I
13 don't know the motive or the reason. I would tell you. 14 Maybe they're jealous of me because I got a new truck 15 and I make three times the amount of money that they 16 do. Maybe they're jealous. I don't know, ma'am. I
17 really don't know.
18 Q. I want to talk about some things you said
19 about you were forgetful when you spoke to Mr. Rose
20 because you had sleep apnea and stress issues. Do you 21 remember talking about that with Mr. Porter?
22 A. Yes, I do. Yes, I do.
23 Q. You said you forgot certain things when you
24 were being interviewed by Mr. Rose because you were
25 sleep-deprived and stressed. Is that right?
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1 A. I'm sure that could have had something to do
2 with speculationwise. I recently have been diagnosed
3 two months ago with sleep apnea. And at the time I
4 wasn't getting good sleep and rest. But I honestly
5 could not remember exactly what happened when he asked 6 me out of the blue. And that's why I had to think
7 about it and it took a little while to remember. I was 8 being honest. I would have answered him if I
9 remembered right away, but I didn't. And when I
10 remembered, I told him the truth. And that's all I can 11 tell you. I don't know what else I can tell you.
12 Q. Before you started your interview with
13 Mr. Rose, you never told him that you had any kind of 14 memory or other limitations that day. Correct?
15 A. I don't know if they were limitations.
16 Didn't have anything to do with it, really. I'm not a 17 doctor so it's speculation again.
18 Q. I'm asking whether you --
19 A. I don't know.
20 Q. Strike that.
21 A. I'm not a doctor.
22 Q. Somehow your forgetfulness during that
23 interview with Mr. Rose changed after you took a break 24 and spoke to your union representative. Is that right? 25 A. It was Mr. Rose's idea to take the break.
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1 Q. I'm asking whether you suddenly --
2 A. It did.
3 Q. Hold on. I'm not done.
4 A. Okay.
5 Q. I'm not done with my question.
6 Somehow your forgetfulness changed after you
7 took that break and you remembered some things all of a 8 sudden. Isn't that right?
9 A. I don't think that that's accurate. I did
10 remember during the break. I had the image of talking 11 to her and thinking about it clearly and sitting down 12 for five minutes without being bombarded with the 100 13 questions before that. I had a few seconds to clearly 14 think about it and I remember doing it. And I came
15 completely forth with the truth as soon as we went
16 back. I told Mr. Rose. And he said thank you for
17 being honest. I don't know what else to tell you.
18 Q. During the break, you said to yourself you
19 have to tell the truth and you came back and told the 20 truth after the break?
21 A. No. That's not what I said. I didn't
22 remember until we took the break, when I had a couple 23 minutes to clearly think about it. It came to me and I 24 recalled exactly our discussion at that time. Then
25 when we went back from the break, I told Mr. Rose
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1 immediately that I remember now and this is what
2 happened. Because that's what happened. I finally
3 remembered.
4 I don't know what else to say. I didn't
5 remember. It was seven -- six months later out of the 6 blue. Then he asked me like 50 other questions before 7 this one. And I was sleep-deprived, probably. I don't 8 know. There's factors. I'm not a doctor. I told
9 the --
10 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Balthrop, there's no
11 question pending.
12 THE WITNESS: Sorry, ma'am.
13 BY MS. HURTADO:
14 Q. Okay. I just have a few more questions, so
15 let's try to get through this. Okay? You said you
16 should not have said "Aysel can suck it" and you think 17 it was not a big deal. Is that what you said?
18 A. I should not have said that. You're right.
19 100 percent. It was totally uncalled for.
20 Unprofessional. And looking back, I wish I wouldn't
21 have said it. If I can apologize to Leslie, I would. 22 Even Aysel, I would, you know.
23 But -- what was the other part of the
24 question? I'm sorry. You gave me two parts.
25 Q. You said you didn't think it was a big deal.
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1 A. Well, I wasn't addressing it towards Leslie
2 when I said it. I was like, "Aysel can suck it." I
3 was walking by. The dirty things she's done, I don't
4 have a lot of respect for the way she operates. I
5 wasn't, like, trying to put this towards Leslie in any 6 way. It wasn't sexual towards her. It wasn't bullying 7 her. I still like her. She's a nice person. It
8 wasn't that. It got made into that. Everybody made it 9 into that, that I was bullying her and I was harassing 10 her when I wasn't even talking about her. I wasn't
11 even addressing it at her at all.
12 Q. Okay. Let me ask you a question, then. When
13 Mr. Rose told you that Ms. Fraide was offended by your 14 behavior, isn't it true that you laughed and you said 15 you didn't believe she could be offended because she 16 looked like she had just come out of prison with her 17 neck tattoos? Isn't that what you told Mr. Rose?
18 A. No. I don't recall saying that exactly that
19 way. I think what I told him was I find it hard for
20 her to be offended. I mean, hearing something like
21 that when I wasn't talking to her. I was talking about 22 Aysel. You know, and the demeanor she has on her
23 tattoos and stuff all over her neck and things like
24 that. I found it kind of hard to believe. In
25 actuality, she wasn't even mad about it, really.
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1 The guy filed a complaint, the guard, and he
2 wasn't even there. She wouldn't even have filed a
3 complaint because I wasn't meaning it towards her in
4 any way.
5 Q. So you're saying that you wish you hadn't
6 said it --
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. -- that you didn't think it was appropriate,
9 but also you're saying she wasn't offended and you
10 didn't think it was a big deal. So which is it?
11 A. No, I didn't think that she would be so
12 offended by me saying that about Aysel. In no way did 13 I direct it at her meaningfully. I was not trying to 14 harass her in any way or belittle her. And yes, I
15 should not have said it. It wasn't professional. It
16 wouldn't happen again. If I had an opportunity, you
17 know, to make it right, I would. I would apologize to 18 them. I would go to classes. I would take leave
19 without pay.
20 I just think that from being an employee at
21 the City for this long, I've seen people do way worse. 22 And they do it two, three, four different times and
23 different things, and they're still there. They never 24 get rid of anybody.
25 Q. Mr. Balthrop --
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1 A. One mistake and you want to fire me?
2 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Balthrop.
3 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
4 BY MS. HURTADO:
5 Q. I'm almost done here. Let me ask you a
6 couple more questions. Okay? You said you understand
7 that there are policies in place to stop people from
8 doing things like the things that you did. And so are 9 you admitting today that you violated City of Monterey 10 policies?
11 A. I'm admitting that I probably violated one or
12 so with the interaction with the person and saying an 13 inappropriate thing. Yes, I would agree with that. I 14 don't agree with all the other stuff that you put.
15 Like not doing my job correctly, being dishonest when I 16 was honest the whole time. Just, you know, a lot of
17 different things like that.
18 I'm not saying that what I did was right.
19 And I know it was wrong and it does deserve some
20 punishment. I agree with that. I did deserve some
21 punishment. I think that being terminated after being 22 such a good employee for so long without even one
23 chance is too much. That's all.
24 MS. HURTADO: Thank you. I don't have any
25 other questions.
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1 THE ARBITRATOR: Mr. Porter, do you have any
2 redirect?
3 MR. PORTER: Yes. Just briefly.
4 5 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. PORTER:
7 Q. Mr. Balthrop, I'm going to ask you a couple
8 questions about what Ms. Hurtado had just asked you.
9 And one of the things was -- you were asked a few
10 questions about whether or not the comment you made to 11 Ms. Fraide about Ms. Gan was a big deal or not. Can
12 you -- in light of that, can you explain what your
13 emotional response or understanding of the situation, 14 knowing that Ms. Fraide was offended by that comment? 15 MS. HURTADO: Objection. Vague. Overbroad.
16 THE ARBITRATOR: Overruled.
17 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure I can.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Vague. Go ahead.
19 BY MR. PORTER:
20 Q. I'll ask it more specifically. Do you
21 believe Ms. Fraide was offended by your comment saying 22 "Aysel can suck it"?
23 A. To tell you the truth, I don't know. She
24 didn't seem like she was at the time. But, you know, I 25 don't know how she was feeling inside.
191
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 Q. Okay. So knowing what you know today and
2 understanding the policy, do you think, regardless of 3 how Ms. Fraide felt, that it was a violation of City
4 policy to say that comment to Ms. Fraide?
5 A. Yes, I do. 100 percent. I was 100 percent
6 wrong.
7 MR. PORTER: I have no other questions at
8 this time.
9 THE ARBITRATOR: Ms. Hurtado, anything
10 further?
11 MS. HURTADO: No. Thank you.
12 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you, Mr. Balthrop.
13 You are not the witness anymore.
14 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
15 THE ARBITRATOR: Does the Union have any
16 other witnesses?
17 MR. PORTER: No. No other witnesses.
18 THE ARBITRATOR: Does the City have any
19 rebuttal witnesses?
20 MS. HURTADO: No.
21 THE ARBITRATOR: Okay. Since the parties had
22 already agreed beforehand to submit closing written
23 briefs, it seems like the evidentiary portion of this 24 hearing is complete and the receipt of briefs is all 25 that's necessary.
192
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Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 469, Packet Page 714

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 Is 30 days from receipt of transcript ample
2 time to submit closing arguments or do you need
3 additional time?
4 MS. HURTADO: That's fine with me.
5 MR. PORTER: That's fine with me. 30 days is
6 fine.
7 THE ARBITRATOR: Obviously, if any emergency
8 arises or any difficulty arises, I expect you can
9 communicate with one another and agree to a different 10 deadline. Otherwise, I'll look for it 30 days from
11 receipt of transcript.
12 MS. HURTADO: Any idea when we will receive
13 the transcript, Madam Reporter? I don't mean to put
14 you on the spot.
15 THE REPORTER: No, I was just going to ask
16 you as well. Generally, it's two weeks from today.
17 Are both sides ordering a copy?
18 MS. HURTADO: Yes.
19 MR. PORTER: Yes.
20 THE REPORTER: And with your agreements, do
21 you split the bill equally or how does it work? Does 22 one side pay? I think everything is different.
23 MS. HURTADO: I think per the MOU, the cost
24 is borne by the Union.
25 MR. PORTER: I'll double-check. Whatever the
193
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 MOU says is obviously what we have agreed to. I'll
2 have to double-check regarding what the specifics of
3 that is.
4 THE ARBITRATOR: Thank you both for your
5 professionalism and efficiency in working together to 6 put together a record. I really appreciate it. It's
7 very -- it's nice when parties can work together to put 8 together a record that's -- even in difficult
9 circumstances. Sets it up for a clear and concise
10 decision process.
11 Nice meeting you all.
12 MS. HURTADO: Appreciate your time. Thank
13 you.
14 THE ARBITRATOR: My pleasure.
15 MR. PORTER: Thank you all.
16 (The proceedings adjourned at 3:12 p.m.)
17 ***
18 19
20 21
22 23
24 25
194
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION
2 3 I, Margaret M. Bourgeois, Certified Shorthand
4 Reporter, in and for the State of California, do hereby 5 certify:
6 7 That the foregoing proceedings were reported by me
8 stenographically and later transcribed into typewriting 9 under my direction; that the foregoing is a true record 10 of the proceedings taken at that time.
11 12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have subscribed my name this 13 7th day of May, 2024.
14 15
16 17
18 ________________________________________
19 Margaret M. Bourgeois, CSR No. 11569
20 21
22 23
24 25
195
AR 468
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 472, Packet Page 717 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
$
$200,000 (1)
140:9
*
*** (3)
156:3,5;194:17
/
// (2)
12:24,25
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14:1;34:15;49:21;
91:16,24;94:18
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36:7
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29:25;37:21;
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20:10;26:6;30:2;
119:16;140:5;144:3,
7;152:14;179:9,14;
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51:10
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76:7;143:7
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16:22;31:9;
127:19,22,24
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163:16
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49:19,23,24;
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140:10
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48:7,8
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18:2
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18:23;20:8,13,21
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114:1
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117:20
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55:5;147:16;
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14 additional (11)
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11:18;91:6;
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99:25;103:3;
112:25
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9:22;26:21;33:6,8;
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22:13
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25:12,13;26:22;
33:9
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23:17;61:9;75:18,
21 admissions (1)
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156:15;157:9;
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17:6;18:16;19:1;
22:21;24:4,9,23;
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5;57:4;61:8;70:1,11,
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161:8,14,24
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70:7;190:9,11
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47:21,23
admonition (1)
28:1
adverse (2)
47:19;110:20
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84:4,6;110:17
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72:7
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84:17
affiliated (2)
9:18;48:11
affirmatively (2)
63:11;77:20
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9:20
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26:7,12;118:6;
134:14;162:25
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13:2;14:24;17:17;
26:20;86:12;89:5;
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117:13;120:16;
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146:23;147:25;
151:21;153:2;168:7;
169:19;185:17;
189:16
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37:24;100:17;
101:4;110:21;114:8;
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11:22;89:5;185:3
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8:7;74:18;120:10;
121:18;122:12;
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24:7;74:23;
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194:1
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8:18;33:17;130:25
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193:20
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24:17,18;25:6,7;
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14:3
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54:7
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50:24;51:23;52:21
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114:8,23;117:15;
128:11
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53:5;61:11
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71:17;72:4;
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160:25
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157:11
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135:6
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7:21
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190:5
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13:11
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52:20;55:7;71:16
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54:18
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42:2;132:6
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123:17;124:5,9;
136:20;138:19;
139:6;141:18;167:3
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73:24
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165:18;174:24;
184:15
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193:1
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7:5;17:13;25:1;
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98:2
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34:17
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121:16;176:21;
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46:22
anti-harassment (6)
19:3,20;109:23;
124:21,23;154:13
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135:19;141:9;
173:18;174:14;
181:3,7;192:13
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147:22;151:24;
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147:3;152:25;
154:22;187:21;
189:17
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17:22
apology (1)
17:23
apparent (1)
71:1
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19:21;58:3;59:20;
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Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (1) $200,000 - appear AR 469
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 473, Packet Page 718 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
117:16
appearances (1)
7:16
appears (4)
46:3;131:20;
133:7;156:16
apply (1)
37:19
appreciate (8)
78:5,7;79:24;
112:14;131:10;
137:21;194:6,12
appreciated (1)
91:21
approached (1)
49:10
appropriate (10)
20:3;44:15;111:4;
121:24;122:5;
123:17;129:18,19;
131:2;189:8
approximately (1)
68:19
APRIL (1)
7:2
ARBITRATOR (223)
7:4,5,10,12,15,22;
8:2,10,15,20;9:3,6,
10,14;10:18;11:10,
23,25;12:5,18,20;
18:6;21:7,12,24;
22:3,7,10,19,23;
23:3,8,11,16;24:3,8,
10,18,23;25:4,7,13,
21,25;26:5,13,18,23;
27:3,6,12,13;30:1,2;
33:7,13;34:1,7;37:3;
38:8,10,12,17;39:15,
19,25;40:3,18;61:20,
24;62:1,4;66:4;68:4,
13;71:8;74:12;
76:10,25;77:15,18;
78:1,4,10,14,17,23;
79:1,2,7,16;93:13,
18;95:23;96:20,23;
97:3,7,9,12,15,18,22,
24;98:3,4,16;112:5,
7,12;117:25;119:1,
23;120:3,13;121:1,9;
122:12,22;123:5,22;
124:8,16;125:3;
126:5;127:3;128:5,8,
9;129:6;131:6,9,14,
17,23;132:3,8,13,15,
18,25;133:3,6,10,15,
21;134:1,4,5,10;
137:18,20,24;138:4,
7;143:21,24;145:1,5,
7;146:10,12,16,25;
147:13;148:22;
150:21,24;151:5,11,
22;153:16,25;
154:15;155:12,17;
156:1,6,14;157:23;
158:8,14;159:4,13,
22,24;160:13,24;
161:14,16,21;
162:18,21;169:10,
25;170:3;175:12;
176:2,5,22,25;
179:22,24;180:17;
181:13;182:20;
183:3,6,11,13;
187:10;190:2;191:1,
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18,21;193:7;194:4,
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7:18
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7:19
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15:10,10;35:8;
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179:2,9,16;180:5
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18:25,25;19:4;
20:7;23:18
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26:24;145:2
argumentative (2)
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arguments (3)
11:12,14;193:2
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arms (11)
15:4,6,7,8;17:19;
35:5;86:21;92:2;
114:19;119:14;
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10:25;13:6;14:3;
130:23;131:1;
136:19;137:4;
162:11;163:25
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12:16;30:13;
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65:23;91:11;92:20;
136:22;139:21;
141:12,14,23,24;
142:6;151:18;
163:11,20;165:11;
173:17;174:18;
181:2,2,6;182:13
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51:14;94:3
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16:12,23;17:11
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articulated (4)
63:16,22;118:23;
119:8
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44:20
assertion (1)
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assessed (1)
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assessing (1)
76:17
assessment (3)
41:12;75:24;
157:21
assigned (7)
16:1;125:4,8,9,12,
13;126:7
assignments (1)
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assistance (1)
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assistant (3)
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134:24
associate (1)
99:14
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83:15,16
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23:12;24:22;59:3
attachment (1)
23:6
attachments (5)
22:18;23:1,25;
24:1;103:16
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45:7;57:9
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46:5;109:10
attended (5)
46:6;103:20;
109:18,25;110:6
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52:9;54:11;87:14;
94:12
attorney (3)
16:2;46:18;64:16
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27:19,24;79:7,12;
98:9,12
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24:12;25:5,8,17;
38:13,23;47:2;48:20,
22;113:4,5,23;117:4
audio-recorded (2)
48:15,16
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10:8;101:16
authored (1)
116:5
authority (3)
8:5;28:6;34:16
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26:11;128:11;
129:14
avoid (1)
134:19
award (6)
145:21;146:1,1,2,
3,21
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20:24;146:5;147:5
aware (4)
101:3,14;137:21;
168:7
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15:14;84:22;
136:18,19;137:3,3;
142:15;143:1;
149:16;171:17;
173:16;174:21;
181:2;185:9
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13:25;15:4,11;
17:7,16;19:6;34:15;
35:2,4;36:22;41:25;
43:14,24;50:5,25;
54:14;56:21,22;57:2,
4,5;61:4;69:24;70:7;
71:5;77:21;84:16;
86:14;87:2;91:24;
92:1;101:21,24;
105:20;114:25;
115:2,10;141:8;
142:3,5,5;143:6,8;
149:5;163:21;
170:10,10,15,18,20,
22,23,25;171:2,5,12;
172:21;175:20;
176:10,12,12,14;
180:14;187:16,22;
188:2,22;189:12;
191:22
B
bachelor's (1)
99:7
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13:9,12,22,25;
14:8,11,22;15:2;
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22;35:3;36:8,21,22;
42:8;43:12,13;49:13,
18;50:2,6,18;54:3,4,
10,12;55:20;57:24;
62:10;73:7;78:17;
82:14;84:2,5,7,11,
15,21,24;85:3,8,13;
86:12;87:21,21;
91:10,23;92:24;
94:25;101:2;106:21;
120:8;121:22;
127:18;131:17;
133:24;135:16,20,
20;140:3,22;141:5,8;
142:3,22;146:4;
147:3,24;149:19;
153:21;155:19;
156:6;164:11;
165:12,22;166:12,
24;169:17;182:10;
186:16,19,25;187:20
background (3)
28:17;98:25;
134:16
backgrounds (1)
81:1
backing (1)
87:18
backup (1)
140:10
backwards (1)
87:18
bad (3)
82:1;140:13;161:5
BALTHROP (218)
7:9,10,11,14;8:1,
12;13:4,22;14:7,10,
13,16;15:3,6,21;
16:25;17:2,15;18:11,
16,20,23,25;19:1,5,8,
12,15,20;20:1,4,7,10,
16;23:1;24:13;25:9,
24;29:20;30:12;
31:23;32:23;34:10,
12,13,19,20,23,25;
35:4,11,21,23,24;
36:7,16;42:2,2,5,7,8;
43:7,12,14,19,19,21;
44:1,7,14,17,23,24;
45:9,15;46:5,10;
48:6;49:3,5;50:18;
51:12;52:14;53:10,
15;54:2,7,10,13;
58:6,8,17,21;60:12;
62:25;63:5,12,15;
64:5,11,23;65:16,19;
66:17;67:8,11,19,23;
68:10;69:3,10,23;
70:19;71:4;74:6,18;
75:5,12,21,25;76:20;
77:2,10,21;81:3;
82:6;84:2;87:11;
88:20;89:18;95:4,7,
13,17,18;100:5,8,17;
101:4;102:5;103:1,
20;105:14;109:10,
18,25;110:6,16;
111:17;112:25;
114:7;116:11;117:2,
7,15;118:9,15;119:9;
120:16;122:18;
124:21,23;125:10;
126:12,21;127:10,
14;128:1,25;132:22,
25;133:2,5,23,25;
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (2) appearances - BALTHROP AR 470
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 474, Packet Page 719 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
134:3,14;137:18;
144:3;145:10,15;
147:4;148:16;150:8,
21;151:16;152:22;
154:12;155:5,12,20;
156:23;157:11,23;
158:2,7,10,11,19,25;
159:17,18,21;160:1,
6;161:24;162:25;
176:2,22;179:22;
182:21;183:3,4;
187:10;189:25;
190:2;191:7;192:12
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10:21;15:24;16:7;
19:25;20:22;21:1;
26:19;44:20;53:12;
56:8;59:6,18;60:24;
61:14,17;65:15,23;
67:4,15;68:1,8;69:1;
73:2,10,21;75:9;
85:7;90:14,20;
103:6;104:10;
124:12;126:19;
130:11;131:21;
133:10;146:14;
153:19;156:11;
159:6;175:14
barely (2)
144:4;153:12
base (7)
89:17;146:3,4;
157:2,6;181:18;
184:1
based (6)
38:3;53:1;68:16;
72:23;74:5;75:11
basically (20)
14:4;17:19;31:7;
36:9;44:2;49:23;
50:21;51:2;52:20;
57:14;135:2;139:14;
149:5;152:13,17,19;
153:5,6;173:24;
178:17
basis (6)
33:14;34:5;
117:17;132:13;
138:18;143:21
batch (1)
9:2
Bear (1)
29:23
became (1)
75:19
become (5)
27:25;79:13;
101:3,14;112:13
becomes (1)
71:1
beforehand (1)
192:22
begin (2)
29:13;60:2
beginning (9)
29:5;38:20;40:15;
46:15;57:2;60:7;
69:6;172:5;173:14
behalf (2)
111:20;178:20
behave (1)
44:14
behavior (14)
18:16,17,18;
75:13;106:5;108:19;
124:1,1,25;126:1;
130:18,24;131:1;
188:14
behind (1)
177:14
belief (1)
52:7
believing (1)
143:11
belittle (1)
189:14
belittling (1)
130:8
below (1)
46:21
beneficial (1)
55:1
besides (2)
128:10,18
best (3)
134:19;142:11;
149:15
better (5)
71:21;72:1;
121:12,17;151:14
beyond (1)
57:10
bias (5)
45:5,6,15;182:25;
184:8
biased (1)
89:22
big (5)
149:2;187:17,25;
189:10;191:11
bigger (4)
58:25;106:23;
109:15;113:13
bill (1)
193:21
bills (1)
153:13
bit (19)
28:16;39:12;
58:25;91:1,14;
98:24;108:8;119:22;
120:1,2;145:19,24;
147:6;148:25;151:7;
152:9;161:11;
163:15;166:21
blacked (1)
155:7
blamed (1)
69:16
blaming (1)
70:9
blemishes (1)
20:23
blow (1)
144:5
Blue (10)
88:24;89:4;165:2,
2,2,3,3;172:20;
185:6;187:6
Board (1)
99:21
body (17)
15:6,7,8,10;17:18;
35:6,7;38:2;65:25,
25;66:12,24;68:2;
73:22;114:20;
119:10,14
bombarded (1)
186:12
borne (1)
193:24
boss (1)
168:11
bossy (1)
19:13
both (12)
8:2,7;15:21;19:1;
23:17;92:2;111:7;
113:4;142:14;
175:25;193:17;
194:4
bother (1)
65:4
bottom (9)
30:23;47:11;89:5;
102:21;103:5;
106:14;110:23;
116:8,9
bound (1)
33:18
box (3)
85:17,18;136:8
break (52)
9:9;13:18;17:6;
48:21;55:16,18,19,
19,23,25;56:3;57:19;
61:21;68:21,22;
71:20,24;72:2,7,16,
20,25;73:4;75:20;
76:1,7,21;77:23;
83:5;139:19;149:10,
11,19;150:4;152:7;
155:13,18;164:20,
21;167:19;173:1,2;
176:8,9;185:23,25;
186:7,10,18,20,22,25
breakout (3)
12:9;159:14,18
breaks (6)
12:6,8,14;71:17;
76:3,3
breezeway (1)
173:21
Brette (4)
29:12;46:4;59:7;
112:23
brief (3)
11:12;158:24;
161:22
briefly (4)
76:12;127:5;
142:4;191:3
briefs (2)
192:23,24
bring (9)
33:23;54:11;
106:8;108:16;
119:19;141:21;
143:16;144:18;
165:19
bringing (1)
26:8
broader (1)
45:9
broadly (1)
159:8
brought (3)
118:20;132:16;
140:21
Brown (17)
24:21;51:19;
53:16,21,22;69:19;
83:19,20;142:11,13;
173:17;180:22;
181:19,19,22,25;
182:2
build (1)
17:19
building (17)
32:24;49:7,10,11;
63:23;65:1;95:4,8;
100:2,4;103:23;
106:3;140:13,15,22;
165:25;167:17
buildings (2)
135:22;139:18
bullying (6)
16:22;31:9;
107:24;149:4;188:6,
9 burning (1)
146:19
business (2)
43:15;60:10
busybody (1)
19:14
butt (3)
142:7;149:6;
176:15
buy (2)
63:6;83:2
C
C1 (1)
23:12
C3 (1)
90:23
C4 (1)
23:20
C7 (1)
39:6
calendar (2)
79:13;98:13
calendars (1)
27:25
California (2)
9:20;99:9
call (9)
12:15;21:25;22:2;
78:10;97:11;100:2;
131:18;133:22;
137:1
called (4)
57:25;136:11,15,
16 calling (2)
130:8;163:9
Calls (6)
68:3;71:7;76:23;
123:20;125:2;
136:10
came (15)
14:9;55:20;82:14;
86:3;91:10;136:9;
146:20;149:12,19;
150:4;152:6;173:2;
186:14,19,23
cameras (2)
89:15,16
can (178)
11:18;12:9;15:4,
11;17:8,16;19:6,14;
20:14;21:16;25:3,9;
26:9,10,20;27:10,13,
17,21;30:24;33:15,
25;35:4;36:22;
38:15;39:17;40:4,
18;41:25;42:23;
43:25;46:7,12,13;
47:9;50:12,25;53:3;
54:14;56:15;57:4;
61:2,4;62:16;64:19;
67:6;68:16;69:24;
70:7;71:6,21;77:22;
78:12,22;79:10;
80:10;82:8;86:5,14,
20;87:2,3,19;88:23;
90:4;91:4,23;92:2;
93:5,17;97:19,20,20,
22,25;98:4,25;99:6;
101:21,25;102:16;
103:16;104:10;
105:3,10,20;107:15;
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (3) Balthrop's - can AR 471
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 475, Packet Page 720 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
108:5,7,25;109:16;
110:11;111:3;
114:25;115:2,10,24;
116:1;119:1,2,2,3;
120:3;121:2,12,22;
123:6;124:1;126:15;
128:23;129:17,18;
130:15;133:21;
137:2,21;138:11,25;
139:12;142:5,5,6;
143:5,8,8,16,17;
144:4,4;145:12,23;
147:15,25;149:5;
151:7,16;152:11;
153:8;155:5,18;
158:7,16,24,25;
159:17,19;161:12;
162:6;164:25;
166:17;167:13;
169:11;170:3,10,10,
18,21,22,23,25;
171:2;172:21;
175:20;176:10,13,
15;180:19;185:10,
11;187:16,21;188:2;
191:11,12,17,22;
193:8;194:7
candidly (1)
47:13
capable (1)
114:10
capacity (3)
69:3;81:13;159:6
capital (1)
11:1
captured (1)
66:9
car (1)
146:19
care (6)
78:9;87:18;137:3,
3;140:25;176:16
career (1)
126:19
careers (1)
95:17
Cargos (1)
88:24
Carhartt-looking (1)
89:2
carry (1)
141:18
case (13)
7:6;12:13;13:21;
25:25;28:16;72:3;
77:11;78:6;96:25;
125:14;131:11;
159:15;168:5
cashier (1)
91:9
catch (1)
89:15
caucus (3)
12:10;158:10,24
caught (1)
58:4
cause (5)
8:11;13:4;21:5;
45:1;47:19
caused (3)
40:8;104:22;152:2
ceiling (2)
14:19;85:11
certain (1)
184:23
certified (1)
137:10
cetera (2)
39:23;127:20
challenged (1)
59:1
chance (2)
154:22;190:23
change (6)
26:23;142:14;
155:2;173:15;
174:12;180:24
changed (3)
55:4;185:23;186:6
Chapter (4)
16:12,23;17:11;
123:24
characterize (3)
70:10;73:13;81:25
charge (6)
47:1;135:1,3,12,
14,16
charges (1)
47:19
Charles (1)
31:25
chat (1)
12:1
check (10)
35:1;43:16;81:1,
22;85:17,18;132:5,7;
136:9;166:3
checked (3)
85:20;144:14,18
checking (7)
14:18;85:11,14;
91:19;141:10,21;
166:19
chips (1)
83:8
chop (2)
57:25;58:15
Chris (2)
100:19;108:17
Christopher (5)
11:5;15:25;23:5;
90:7,8
chronicle (1)
31:4
Chuck (2)
31:25;117:7
circumstances (2)
128:19;194:9
City (127)
7:13,15,20;8:6,16,
16,17,18;9:17,25;
10:2,4,7;11:22;13:3;
16:1,8,11;17:11,22;
18:12,20,24;19:4,8,
9,19,21;20:6,25;
21:5;22:1,13,16,25;
23:4,14;24:2,24;
29:3,6;31:5,6;33:17;
34:4;37:8;39:6;40:8;
41:14;43:16;45:20;
46:18;47:16;50:1;
54:8,9;57:8,9;58:18;
59:5;60:11,22;
78:10;81:5;88:18;
89:1,4;90:11,15;
91:7;96:13;99:1,2,
11,15,19;100:14;
101:7;103:12;104:4,
18;108:18;109:4,13,
15;113:15;118:10;
122:5,9,19;123:24;
124:5,13,24;126:13,
22,24;127:14;
128:18;130:14,15,
19,22;134:17,23;
135:8,12;136:22,22;
137:4;144:17;
149:23;154:19;
156:9,17;157:7,13;
160:8,8,10,18;
164:22;165:3;
189:21;190:9;192:3,
18 City's (15)
16:21;19:3;23:13;
24:21;27:1;30:8;
48:24;58:20;90:23;
104:25;107:23;
115:23;119:20;
122:3;154:13
civil (2)
99:7,8
claim (1)
58:11
claimed (2)
17:8;89:18
claiming (1)
17:18
clarification (1)
145:24
clarifications (1)
71:13
clarify (4)
69:22;70:17;
143:4;171:9
clarifying (4)
68:24;69:2;70:13;
73:19
classes (12)
109:11;124:21,23;
125:5,7,11,13;130:1;
152:18;153:4;155:3;
189:18
clean (1)
159:11
clear (8)
28:7;77:21;78:23;
123:5;140:18;152:3;
159:11;194:9
clearly (6)
27:16;79:4;98:7;
186:11,13,23
client (1)
8:1
close (3)
65:2;86:6;96:9
closed (1)
46:21
closing (3)
11:12;192:22;
193:2
Code (18)
9:25;10:2,4;16:11,
17,18;17:11;31:6,6;
33:17;37:19;38:4;
103:25;104:4;
105:10,22;107:22;
123:24
codes (2)
16:9;23:9
codified (1)
104:1
colleague (1)
7:20
colonel (1)
146:20
colonels (1)
146:6
color (1)
165:2
comfort (3)
12:7,14;72:3
coming (10)
36:21;54:3,10;
81:19;135:3,22;
137:15,16;142:10;
184:12
commendations (2)
131:20,24
comment (22)
15:14;19:18,24;
35:9,23;51:7;65:7,
10;70:20;74:3;
105:15,19,19;128:2;
171:11;180:14;
181:10;182:3;
191:10,14,21;192:4
comments (4)
33:5,11;63:12;
89:20
commissary (1)
140:11
commitment (1)
21:1
common (2)
65:9;87:9
communicate (2)
69:9;193:9
communicated (1)
67:8
communicating (1)
182:12
company (1)
178:15
comparison (1)
61:15
compelling (1)
52:24
compile (1)
109:24
complained (3)
52:8;54:6,8
complaining (4)
53:21;54:2,9;
132:23
complaint (21)
15:24;16:3,5;23:5;
29:14;41:7,10,11,16,
22;51:2,15;65:5;
92:18;93:8;100:17;
101:4;129:2;157:3;
189:1,3
complete (3)
157:12,25;192:24
completed (4)
12:13;19:21;
59:25;60:6
completely (4)
87:10;140:18;
149:14;186:15
complicate (1)
54:20
component (1)
154:2
compound (2)
54:21;122:11
computer (2)
97:13;119:25
concealing (1)
75:12
concern (3)
96:12;140:20;
157:7
concerns (2)
26:18;159:1
concise (1)
194:9
concluded (1)
67:21
conclusion (3)
25:14,15;153:7
concrete (3)
75:1,15,19
conduct (30)
16:7,20,22;17:22,
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (4) candidly - conduct AR 472
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 476, Packet Page 721 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
25;28:24;29:2,5;
31:9;35:14;61:11;
70:19;101:8,20;
102:11;104:22,23;
105:11;106:19,24;
107:24;108:8,24,25;
109:1,5,5;116:19;
127:24;130:11
conduct/bullying (2)
10:6;127:22
conduct/harassment (1)
127:19
conducted (3)
29:16;61:13;117:5
confer (2)
17:6;55:16
conference (4)
111:19,24;112:1;
113:22
confirmed (1)
74:1
confirms (1)
15:19
confronted (2)
50:23;51:15
consecutiveness (1)
166:5
consequence (1)
36:24
consequences (1)
154:18
consider (2)
116:17;163:7
consideration (6)
114:12,15;125:18;
127:25;130:21;
157:13
considered (4)
56:17;67:17;
122:25;147:17
considering (2)
70:5;128:11
consistent (1)
60:15
conspired (1)
52:19
constitute (2)
66:23;127:23
consult (2)
72:4,17
contacted (3)
29:9,11;37:9
contained (1)
104:12
contains (1)
48:24
contents (1)
161:19
context (5)
42:10;66:25;
71:14;72:12;76:8
continue (7)
33:1;34:23;49:14;
50:10;147:6;151:6;
157:8
continued (6)
14:20;17:24;
85:12;92:5;129:11;
160:4
continues (1)
28:5
continuously (1)
20:13
contract (1)
130:25
contractor (4)
49:21;57:13;
131:3;164:7
contractor's (1)
137:11
contracts (1)
49:22
contradicted (1)
119:10
contradicts (1)
118:23
contrary (1)
115:5
contrived (1)
51:21
convenient (1)
14:23
conversating (1)
91:9
conversation (7)
50:22;64:22;
83:24;84:2;85:5;
100:20,22
conversations (1)
139:4
cooperate (2)
47:12;110:18
coordinates (1)
14:4
coordinator (1)
34:16
copies (1)
161:1
copy (1)
193:17
corner (8)
142:22;173:18,23;
174:1,18;181:3,6;
182:13
corporation (1)
28:21
corrected (1)
111:9
correcting (1)
124:14
corrective (24)
120:11,15,23;
121:7,11,19,24;
122:3,4,7,19,21,21;
123:1,3;126:13,21,
24;128:10,14,19,23;
129:14;152:23
correctly (1)
190:15
corroborated (4)
41:19;42:1,13;
43:10
Corroboration (1)
37:23
cost (1)
193:23
council (1)
8:17
counsel (6)
11:22;18:20;
46:18;127:9;157:13;
158:22
counseled (1)
130:4
counseling (1)
129:24
counter (1)
177:14
counterproductive (1)
104:16
couple (9)
10:18;67:5;90:15;
156:15;181:20,21;
186:22;190:6;191:7
coupled (1)
74:7
course (8)
28:18;42:3;71:1,
17;73:1;133:17;
148:20;158:21
courses (1)
111:10
court (10)
11:18,24;12:7;
27:15;79:2,9;82:12,
20;98:6;105:3
courteous (2)
50:8;106:4
courtesy (5)
27:21;79:9;87:9;
98:10;106:14
cover (3)
30:10;168:6,14
coworker (4)
83:14;94:3,8,18
crane (1)
135:9
craving (1)
82:10
created (1)
103:19
creating (1)
43:19
credentials (1)
81:2
credibility (21)
37:20;39:23,25;
40:4,5,25;41:12;
45:2,19;55:10;
61:14;64:3,9,14;
67:14;72:18;75:17,
24;76:2,17;111:12
credible (13)
37:15;38:3;41:3,7,
11,16;45:21;61:17;
67:22;72:21,23,23;
115:13
credited (1)
45:22
critical (2)
72:13;73:12
cross (3)
25:18;118:1;
155:14
crossbreeze (1)
13:13
crossed (1)
86:21
cross-examination (9)
61:22;62:2,6;
70:24;93:20;118:4;
125:24;159:25;
162:23
crotch (3)
57:25;58:15;
149:18
curious (2)
33:14;127:18
current (4)
99:4,5,22;154:12
customers (1)
162:11
cut (5)
135:11,15,15,17;
176:19
cutting (1)
91:12
D
daily (1)
138:18
damage (1)
146:22
damaged (1)
167:7
Damiel (2)
83:19,20
Dan (1)
150:11
dangerous (1)
136:11
data (1)
59:17
database (1)
59:17
date (15)
10:22;11:2;30:14;
46:7;59:9,9,12,15;
103:8,14,15;112:6,
10,15;147:24
dated (5)
9:22,24;10:8,11;
24:21
dates (1)
59:25
daughter (2)
88:9,10
David (3)
52:4,5;168:11
day (26)
29:15;70:2;82:8;
83:3,18;88:21;89:6;
97:1;136:7,10;
137:17;138:15,16;
139:13,21;141:1;
142:11;152:4;165:5;
167:10;168:17;
172:16;181:23;
183:23,24;185:14
days (8)
81:17;92:21,22,
24;140:19;193:1,5,
10 Day-to-day (1)
135:23
deadline (1)
193:10
deal (5)
149:2;187:17,25;
189:10;191:11
dealings (1)
57:7
dealt (1)
135:21
decades (2)
19:7;20:23
December (15)
13:6;18:22;32:14;
37:6;43:6,9;49:4;
63:1;70:23;73:11;
92:14;138:11;
139:10;147:8;
164:19
deceptive (1)
57:6
decide (3)
8:20;133:4,6
decided (2)
75:20;115:22
decision (5)
72:16;117:2;
118:21;147:23;
194:10
defend (1)
178:5
Defense (8)
13:16;14:6;43:1;
49:21,22;57:14;80:3,
13 definitely (2)
15:9;76:21
deflect (1)
52:8
deflected (1)
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (5) conduct/bullying - deflected AR 473
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 477, Packet Page 722 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
69:16
degree (2)
99:7;157:10
delay (1)
26:10
deliver (1)
102:25
delivered (2)
103:10;111:15
delivering (1)
67:19
demeanor (2)
39:23;188:22
demerit (1)
76:7
denial (4)
54:18,24;55:5;
75:18
denied (8)
17:2,3,17;42:3;
50:24;51:9;55:14;
172:6
deny (1)
17:15
denying (3)
61:5;70:9;170:20
Department (18)
13:16;14:6;16:10,
14;29:7;43:1;46:23;
49:20,22;57:7,14;
80:3,12;101:13;
110:3;128:14;135:5;
162:10
departments (1)
162:11
depending (2)
41:24;44:2
Depends (2)
71:14;72:11
depriving (1)
26:2
deputy (2)
103:3;112:24
derogatory (1)
108:10
describe (10)
66:13;88:23;
136:4;143:25;
145:23;151:16;
152:11;153:9;162:6;
164:25
described (7)
15:5;17:21,25;
43:23;58:15;63:9;
66:23
describing (3)
41:24;67:1,10
description (3)
9:15;37:21;58:14
descriptive (2)
75:1;77:4
deserve (2)
190:19,20
despite (1)
179:7
detail (5)
41:8;65:4,10;
102:13;136:5
detailed (1)
77:5
details (2)
20:15;150:13
determination (15)
40:1,4,6,19;61:14;
72:18;76:2;110:16;
114:13;115:20;
116:15;117:10,17,
20;158:6
determinations (2)
18:4;39:24
determine (1)
133:17
determined (2)
86:15;111:4
Development (1)
99:21
diagnosed (2)
151:25;185:2
Diego (1)
99:20
difference (7)
45:3;64:2;65:14;
66:8;68:25;75:6;
88:2
differences (8)
20:15,19;63:17,
21;65:17,20,21;
66:13
different (20)
22:24;48:21;
51:18;75:22;100:15;
110:10;118:12;
130:11,13;136:7;
146:1,2,6;154:4;
175:18;189:22,23;
190:17;193:9,22
differently (1)
64:20
difficult (2)
119:23;194:8
difficulties (1)
26:8
difficulty (2)
22:6;193:8
dig (1)
161:3
DIRECT (12)
28:11;62:23;
63:17;68:24;79:20;
95:11;98:19;125:15;
134:12;160:4;
162:16;189:13
directed (7)
46:13;47:10,11;
67:18;102:1;107:6;
142:8
directing (2)
163:18,20
direction (1)
35:7
director (12)
17:14;29:12;59:8;
97:6;99:5,10,16,23;
103:3;111:23;
112:23,24
dirty (4)
15:14;35:9;74:3;
188:3
disagreeing (1)
120:1
discern (1)
41:8
discharge (1)
7:7
discharged (2)
129:2;154:5
Disciplinary (9)
10:3;20:9;47:18;
102:5;103:25;
123:14;153:10,10,21
discipline (31)
8:12;9:24;10:1;
18:13,14;19:10,24;
34:5;102:4,9,18;
103:24;104:13;
111:5;116:2,18,23;
118:22;119:8;120:9,
10,14,22;121:7,11;
123:18,25;124:5;
125:18;128:22;
129:16
disciplines (2)
152:23,24
discipline's (1)
121:19
disclosed (1)
133:11
discourteous (8)
16:10;105:12,15,
21;117:15;129:24;
130:6,10
discrepancies (2)
102:2;107:7
discrepancy (3)
44:16,21;45:1
discrimination (2)
16:21;31:8
discuss (6)
62:24;78:6;93:8;
96:25;131:11;
155:22
discussed (2)
42:10;116:23
discusses (1)
117:14
discussing (2)
29:20;173:2
Discussion (7)
12:19;22:9;36:19;
63:25;97:17;173:3;
186:24
discussions (2)
8:3;22:11
dishonest (7)
20:7;55:2;57:7;
107:16;150:1,6;
190:15
dishonesty (3)
20:20;72:8;102:11
disobedience (1)
107:9
dispel (1)
73:24
dispute (2)
114:8,22
disrespecting (1)
44:9
distant (1)
156:20
distinguish (1)
64:1
divided (1)
48:17
division (3)
100:4;103:21;
106:2
divisions (3)
99:24;100:15;
118:12
doctor (10)
132:17;143:11;
144:8,18;152:14;
177:21;178:22;
185:17,21;187:8
doctor's (9)
17:18;114:9;
118:19,23;119:9,15;
132:8;177:20;180:3
document (26)
29:23;30:7;46:2;
59:2,4,5;90:1,5;
102:17,19,23,25;
103:21;107:20,25;
109:16;110:10,13,
15;113:9,12;115:24;
116:6;145:17,20;
161:12
documented (2)
117:12;124:17
documents (14)
21:18;22:24;
23:17;24:11;27:23;
29:17;79:11;98:11;
112:7,13;133:16;
145:13;157:21;
158:11
dollars (2)
135:17;140:12
Domino's (3)
13:19;82:11;94:9
done (11)
27:3;82:2;107:19;
147:20;153:1;164:7;
167:7;186:3,5;
188:3;190:5
Dooley (7)
7:5;11:23;27:7;
78:19;97:24;134:10;
146:12
door (74)
13:9,12,13,18,23,
23,25;14:8,12,15,22,
24,25;15:2;32:22,22,
24;34:11,14,18,22;
35:3;36:8,21,22;
42:7,8,9;43:12,13;
49:13,18;50:3,5,6,
18;52:3,9;54:3,4,10,
12;84:15,25;85:3,9;
86:6,12;91:10,17;
92:7;139:23;140:1,1,
3;141:2,5,8,10;
142:3;165:15,16;
166:3,12;168:1,8;
169:3,17;173:14;
174:12;180:22;
181:1;182:5,10
doors (2)
96:10,11
door's (1)
52:5
double-check (2)
193:25;194:2
doubt (2)
21:1;74:5
down (27)
15:4,7;27:14,18,
21;28:4;30:23;79:3,
5;91:13;93:16,17;
98:5;108:7;109:14;
110:17;114:19;
119:14;144:6;
145:15,19,24;
147:19;161:25;
173:24;177:13;
186:11
dressed (1)
164:22
drink (2)
82:13;94:18
drinks (1)
83:8
drop (2)
87:5;94:17
dry (1)
13:14
due (5)
17:18;68:22;76:4;
102:10;135:11
duplicitous (1)
57:6
during (43)
9:8;16:25;17:4;
19:24;20:11;43:6;
47:5,7,16;54:22;
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (6) degree - during AR 474
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 478, Packet Page 723 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
63:16;65:11;68:24;
69:11;71:1,17;73:1;
94:2;95:3,16;
102:11;107:17;
110:19;114:18;
115:8,13;118:14;
129:1;132:9;138:23,
25;146:20;147:9;
148:8,18,20;150:16;
151:18;152:3;
172:11;185:22;
186:10,18
duties (9)
47:15;80:7,24;
99:22;104:20;
135:21;136:6,23;
179:10
duty (6)
16:18;45:17;
104:20,24;146:20;
164:19
Dwight (12)
11:5;15:25;23:5;
90:7,8,9,20;91:5;
92:12;100:19,21;
108:17
D-w-i-g-h-t (1)
11:6
E
earlier (7)
11:21;27:7,8;31:7;
35:20;69:8;150:25
Early (4)
99:15;100:18;
112:19;155:19
easier (1)
85:21
eat (5)
94:22;174:22,23;
183:24;184:1
eating (1)
168:13
education (1)
99:6
effect (6)
14:19;15:20;
19:15;36:9,13;40:23
effective (2)
76:5;125:22
efficiency (1)
194:5
efforts (1)
17:24
egregious (13)
17:25;101:21;
109:3,8;116:20;
117:13;120:15,22;
121:23,25;124:2;
127:25;128:3
egregiousness (2)
19:5;102:10
eight (1)
21:8
either (11)
52:23;57:25;58:1;
82:11;83:1,13;
89:12;112:19;
151:17;167:1;
175:22
elaborated (1)
50:4
electric (1)
140:10
electrical (4)
135:3,23,24;164:6
electrician (17)
9:15;10:24;13:5;
18:12;49:25;81:9;
104:17;134:17,22,
23,25;135:7;136:22;
137:9;149:24;159:7;
160:8
electricians (3)
57:10;137:6,7
electronic (1)
116:10
elements (1)
41:18
elicited (2)
154:6,7
else (10)
35:17;89:10;
113:24;117:9;
171:15;183:1;
184:10;185:11;
186:17;187:4
E-mail (19)
8:23;11:18,22;
12:1;15:25;23:4;
37:8,9;90:6,25;91:4;
92:11;93:5,6,7,9,15;
100:25;101:5
E-mailed (1)
111:23
embarrassed (2)
15:12;35:12
embarrassing (1)
35:15
embellish (1)
41:9
embellished (1)
67:25
embellishments (1)
67:18
emblem (1)
165:4
emergencies (1)
136:10
emergency (4)
137:2;167:12,16;
193:7
emotional (1)
191:13
employ (1)
123:1
employed (7)
13:16;28:22;
58:18;80:2,3;99:1;
118:10
employee (12)
19:8;59:20;76:6;
99:2;129:20,21,25,
25;130:5;145:21;
189:20;190:22
Employees (18)
9:18,20;48:10,11;
49:8;63:8;90:11,16;
91:8;96:14;105:13;
125:8,9,12,13;
162:10;163:22,25
employee's (1)
104:21
Employer (4)
12:21;21:9;28:19;
133:12
employers (1)
28:25
employer's (1)
19:23
employment (5)
7:12;47:19;64:16;
105:14;124:13
encountered (2)
49:13,16
end (15)
15:11;17:8;26:25;
50:9;60:2;66:20;
69:6;70:21;102:5;
115:19;126:11;
148:9;170:24;176:7,
8 ended (1)
150:12
endorsed (1)
58:8
enemy (1)
56:25
engage (1)
127:10
engaged (1)
64:6
engineer (5)
99:9,14,14,15,16
engineering (2)
99:8;100:1
enough (9)
65:2;109:3,7,8;
118:17;120:16,19,
22;121:23
ensure (1)
159:10
enter (6)
13:22;34:13;35:3;
42:9;43:13;50:17
entered (12)
13:7,8;32:23;
34:10,12;42:7;
43:12;49:12;83:21;
84:2;165:21;166:2
entering (1)
15:1
enthusiastically (1)
58:8
entire (8)
49:20;61:9;70:5;
76:22;99:11;158:19;
172:6;174:7
entirely (3)
61:1;68:15;70:8
entirety (1)
126:18
entitled (2)
76:4,5
episode (5)
43:6;45:10,13;
53:10;64:22
equally (1)
193:21
equate (1)
19:13
especially (6)
57:3;88:10;
127:24;128:16;
130:19;148:18
essentially (4)
36:7;52:19;55:13;
116:22
estimation (2)
53:1;74:5
et (2)
39:23;127:20
evaluating (3)
125:18;160:19;
162:4
evaluation (10)
133:8;157:19;
160:9,15,20;161:5,9;
162:7,8,12
evaluations (6)
20:24;158:20,21;
160:7;161:2,20
even (30)
17:4;18:17;26:19;
51:17;64:17;89:19;
101:24;108:25;
128:20;136:13;
141:17;142:8;
144:14;149:25;
154:25;158:21;
167:2,19;172:19;
177:14,17;178:7;
187:22;188:10,11,
25;189:2,2;190:22;
194:8
event (2)
37:10;159:8
events (9)
37:21,22;42:1;
45:3,10;64:17,20;
75:23;103:20
eventually (2)
93:3,7
everybody (4)
81:2;102:22;
165:11;188:8
everyone (3)
7:4;155:16;182:14
everyone's (1)
12:14
Everywhere (1)
136:2
evidence (26)
9:13;13:3;16:7;
18:24;19:11,19;20:6,
9;22:16;23:15;24:2,
24;27:2;33:19;
37:19;38:4;79:14;
98:14;114:7,12,22;
133:20;144:24;
145:8;157:16;158:2
evidentiary (1)
192:23
exact (2)
36:11;161:12
Exactly (12)
58:9;60:14;84:10;
86:16;149:8,12;
150:20;172:15;
173:3;185:5;186:24;
188:18
exaggerate (1)
41:9
exaggerations (1)
67:17
EXAMINATION (17)
28:11;62:24;
63:17;68:25;74:15;
79:20;95:11;96:1;
98:19;125:15;127:7;
128:8;129:11;
134:12;160:4;
162:17;191:5
example (3)
96:15;129:18;
162:9
exasperated (3)
44:6;45:9;67:8
Excel (1)
59:5
excellence (1)
146:3
except (1)
57:20
Exchange (1)
14:3
exchanges (1)
139:2
excuse (5)
19:23;42:3,8;93:2;
168:20
excuses (1)
19:9
executive (1)
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (7) duties - executive AR 475
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 479, Packet Page 724 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
113:25
exhibit (52)
8:24;9:1,1,14,16,
21,23,25;10:2,4,7,9,
12;21:16;22:16;
24:2,24;30:8;39:6;
45:24;48:24;58:20;
90:23;102:15,15;
104:3,4;106:6,7,7,
22;107:21;109:13,
15;110:11;113:15;
115:23;119:20;
143:17,17,19;144:7,
24;145:5,6,8,16;
156:12;157:18;
160:22;161:8,25
exhibiting (1)
124:25
exhibits (24)
9:4,6,11,13;11:19,
23;21:9;22:18,24;
23:12,14;24:4,6;
27:1,2;28:1;30:20;
131:19,20;133:19;
145:11;146:13;
156:10;157:15
exist (1)
158:5
exiting (2)
115:5,12
expect (1)
193:8
Expectations (1)
106:13
expected (2)
44:8;106:4
expediency (2)
49:1;145:11
experience (3)
64:15;75:11;
134:16
experiencing (1)
88:1
explain (9)
58:10;61:2;84:14;
103:17;107:15;
108:25;144:11;
182:15;191:12
explained (5)
15:8;50:4;51:22;
57:6;64:24
explanation (3)
57:5;64:12;164:18
explosive (1)
53:15
expressions (1)
38:2
extent (2)
42:2;147:13
eyes (1)
88:3
F
fabricated (1)
156:24
face (2)
41:7,11
facial (1)
38:2
facility (8)
43:4;49:20,24;
57:13;64:25;95:13;
140:10;163:14
fact (24)
8:5;10:19,21;11:2,
4;19:17;40:4;42:5,6,
6,8,10;43:20;44:6;
51:20;52:9;56:13;
57:17;70:18;85:14;
125:16;132:6;
148:23;154:3
factfinder (5)
7:6;8:4;27:8;
78:19;97:25
fact-finding (8)
19:2;20:12;33:19;
70:15;74:6;148:3;
150:9,16
factor (4)
70:12;72:16,17;
130:21
factors (3)
37:20;38:3;187:8
facts (4)
28:16;37:23;
134:18;183:7
fact-taking (1)
70:15
factual (4)
8:21,22;18:3;31:5
failed (2)
16:15;20:7
failing (1)
20:20
failure (4)
101:23;104:14,20;
111:7
fair (1)
21:1
fairness (1)
74:22
false (1)
52:21
falsehood (1)
51:10
far (7)
56:15;110:4;
114:3;122:2;154:20;
164:16;175:23
faraway (1)
87:17
faster (1)
13:14
fault (2)
140:19;151:1
faulty (1)
77:7
favorable (1)
56:17
February (12)
10:11;29:6,17;
39:9,9;42:19;46:8;
59:14,16;60:8;
62:22;110:7
Federation (1)
57:23
feel (10)
75:14;85:22;88:7;
92:9;111:12;115:13,
16;147:9;154:21,24
feeling (1)
191:25
feelings (5)
147:16;151:18;
163:3,8,15
fellatio (1)
130:17
felt (10)
14:22;35:10;
57:14;65:1;75:3;
88:11,13;143:10;
183:16;192:3
female (1)
63:8
few (16)
11:23;52:1;62:10;
67:3;68:7;93:25;
120:5;124:20;
145:10;148:2;
158:19;159:25;
160:6;186:13;
187:14;191:9
figure (3)
92:19,25;158:10
file (9)
56:9;92:17;
117:11;131:21,25;
132:2;146:14;
156:11,13
filed (2)
189:1,2
files (1)
117:4
filing (1)
93:9
fill (1)
167:8
final (13)
11:10;23:20,22;
114:13;116:2,15,21;
117:19;118:21;
119:7,19,22;158:6
finalized (2)
29:18;30:18
Finally (5)
16:24;17:5,13;
93:4;187:2
find (9)
21:4;37:15;41:18;
52:23;60:24;74:24;
114:20;132:3;
188:19
finder's (1)
8:5
finding (6)
26:25;55:10;
74:24;75:2,17;109:8
findings (7)
31:5;40:25;41:13;
101:15;102:14;
116:21;152:20
fine (10)
12:5,10;14:20;
28:3;38:10;55:9;
158:23;193:4,5,6
finish (9)
27:19;79:8;98:9;
134:8;166:14;
168:20,23;172:9;
179:25
finished (1)
168:21
fire (3)
146:22;155:1;
190:1
fired (1)
178:18
firmer (1)
121:16
first (37)
9:2;17:2;21:25;
29:9,11;41:3,6;
42:21;53:3;62:12,14,
21;63:14;69:9,9,10,
20;78:23;83:20;
92:20;100:16;
134:15;136:5;
138:16;144:20;
148:18;152:13;
156:16;165:9;
171:25;172:1,5,11,
17;173:14;174:11;
177:22
five (7)
115:4,11;135:7,
17;143:13;152:1;
186:12
five-foot-nine (1)
179:18
fix (1)
81:10
flag (2)
95:10;96:3
flashes (1)
88:17
fleet (1)
99:25
flicker (5)
140:8,16;141:3,
11;165:22
flickered (3)
139:25;165:14,23
flickering (2)
49:11;85:24
flickers (2)
140:17;166:8
flies (1)
168:10
floated (1)
52:22
floor (9)
13:12,14;141:25;
164:5;167:22,25;
168:3;169:15,15
floors (1)
32:23
fly (1)
160:16
focus (1)
95:2
focused (2)
140:24;159:7
focusing (1)
149:3
follow (3)
71:12;100:25;
158:16
followed (1)
15:6
following (2)
29:15;132:24
follows (1)
77:2
Follow-up (5)
77:18;123:6;
157:24;158:19;
159:25
food (11)
14:4;36:2;44:8;
82:12,19;84:20;
94:21,21,23;163:14;
174:20
foot (1)
143:13
Force (1)
14:3
forget (3)
65:10,12;70:25
forgetful (1)
184:19
forgetfulness (2)
185:22;186:6
forgetting (3)
75:5,7;76:19
forgot (3)
65:6;77:10;184:23
forgotten (1)
71:5
form (2)
87:25;102:9
formed (2)
60:9;154:3
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (8) exhibit - formed AR 476
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 480, Packet Page 725 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
formulate (1)
77:10
forth (10)
23:19;28:5;38:3;
52:18;58:14;132:19;
134:8;143:25;157:1;
186:15
forthcoming (2)
101:25;102:1
forward (3)
11:18;108:16;
153:24
found (15)
16:4,6,15,24;17:1,
23;36:1;41:16;
45:21;52:25;61:16;
64:16;93:3;108:16;
188:24
foundation (9)
21:17;25:3,9;
33:24;125:1;132:14;
143:22;145:12;
160:22
four (9)
92:23,24;137:7;
144:9,22;171:15;
177:8,11;189:22
Fraide (106)
13:10,20,22;14:14,
21;15:5,12,19;17:5;
18:21;19:6,12,17,25;
20:1,11;24:13;25:9;
26:6;31:21;32:4,12;
33:12,23;34:12,19;
35:4,24;37:9,15;
38:7;39:4,7;42:15;
43:7,11,13,23;44:2,
9,19;49:13,16,17;
50:4;51:3,7,11,16,
22,24;52:2,7,12,19;
53:6;54:2,9;55:5,24;
56:23;62:13,22,24;
63:24;64:24;65:6,14,
17,24;66:10;67:1;
69:12,17;70:3,23;
73:10,22,24;74:18;
84:23;85:2;88:4;
101:21;102:3;
105:16;108:11;
115:7;117:7;138:13;
139:12;153:22;
166:11;169:14;
174:7,16;176:10;
180:15;182:3;
183:17;188:13;
191:11,14,21;192:3,
4 Fraide's (10)
36:18;40:24;
44:22;45:2;50:14;
63:3,18;64:3;73:8,12
frame (1)
52:20
Frank (1)
156:12
free (5)
78:7;92:9;96:24;
131:10;155:11
frequent (1)
65:9
frequented (1)
63:6
frequently (2)
56:18;57:8
Friday (2)
92:22,23
friend (6)
52:4;56:18,25;
142:11;147:18;
163:7
friends (2)
138:17;163:17
front (14)
13:13,23;14:15,24,
25;32:22;42:7,9;
85:13;86:3;91:21;
145:17;166:2;179:9
frustration (1)
57:5
fuck (1)
44:3
fully (3)
19:16;47:12;
110:18
functions (1)
127:14
further (18)
12:20;19:19;
36:19,24;41:10;
54:21;74:10;76:9,
10;93:11;96:18,20,
22;127:2;129:7;
131:6;145:24;
192:10
furthermore (1)
53:22
future (1)
50:17
G
game (1)
164:3
games (1)
164:4
Gan (27)
13:25;14:1;15:1;
19:6,13;34:15;35:2;
42:10;43:14;44:2;
50:5;56:12,16,21,23;
69:24;70:7;71:6;
77:22;84:17,24;
85:3;86:14;87:2;
91:24;143:6;191:11
Gan's (1)
14:16
Garrett (1)
7:25
G-a-r-r-e-t-t (1)
7:25
gate (4)
45:12;53:13;
81:21;95:13
gates (1)
96:9
gave (7)
51:4;54:24;68:14,
18;87:17;146:21;
187:24
General (11)
9:18;48:11;84:12;
94:11;100:2,19;
103:20,22;106:1;
108:16;157:7
generalize (1)
72:22
Generally (11)
66:25;68:9;72:21;
84:12;94:21,23;
99:22;120:9;127:14;
138:11;193:16
generated (1)
156:22
generation (2)
135:21,22
generator (4)
140:11,21;141:21;
165:19
generators (1)
136:16
genital (4)
61:7;74:2,7;
114:17
genitals (6)
15:9;17:9,17,20;
41:23;43:24
gesture (28)
20:18;35:22;
43:21;51:8;56:5;
58:6;65:16,18,25;
66:17;68:1;73:21;
75:6;105:15,20;
115:2,17;119:11;
128:2;130:15;143:3,
5,9;152:15;171:21;
177:9;179:20;182:3
gestured (6)
17:17;55:21,21;
89:20;143:2;171:12
gestures (2)
66:14;181:9
gesturing (6)
35:14;41:22;42:4;
43:24;51:1;61:6
gets (2)
26:12;34:3
girls (1)
138:20
gist (2)
39:18;40:16
given (3)
18:17;20:23;
154:21
gives (2)
144:9;178:22
giving (4)
72:2;148:12;
175:4,5
goes (10)
23:16;85:11;
97:16;110:23;
140:13;164:8,17;
171:8;172:20;
175:23
Good (29)
7:4,18;13:2;18:11;
19:7;27:6;28:13,14;
56:23;62:8,9;78:18,
21;79:22,23;81:17,
23;86:1;93:22;
97:18;98:21,22;
118:6;121:13;
134:14;162:25;
163:7;185:4;190:22
goods (2)
140:12;165:18
grab (3)
82:13;83:6,8
Great (6)
7:22;8:2;11:10;
27:6;97:1;98:4
greeted (1)
91:10
greets (1)
81:22
groin (27)
15:5;35:8;41:23;
55:22;56:6,10,14;
57:17,20;58:1;
65:23;68:1;73:21;
92:3;101:22;102:1;
114:11;115:2;143:3,
10;169:22;170:9;
178:11;179:2,9,16;
180:5
grounds (1)
110:20
group (2)
57:24;125:12
groups (1)
125:8
guard (5)
13:16;17:3;
132:23;174:22;
189:1
guards (10)
53:6;77:3,9;80:8;
117:16;173:11,13;
180:11,12;183:24
guess (14)
33:13;45:13;58:5;
61:10;64:13;73:7;
90:10;120:8;122:24;
136:4;137:12;
138:10;168:15;
183:8
guesstimation (1)
169:20
guy (5)
82:1;146:21;
164:10;173:17;
189:1
guys (6)
135:24;141:8;
172:25;178:17,24;
181:20
guys' (2)
95:17;137:16
H
half (3)
11:21;147:22;
172:6
hallway (1)
173:25
hand (13)
27:10,14;78:24;
98:1,5;134:2;136:14,
21;141:17;143:1;
167:3;171:18;
177:13
handed (1)
142:13
handing (3)
173:15;174:13;
180:24
handles (1)
84:20
hands (7)
35:7;43:22;
114:11;179:3,8,15;
180:4
Hang (3)
132:25,25;155:12
happen (5)
53:18;166:6;
167:15;177:17;
189:16
happened (27)
15:22;17:3;32:13;
35:22;36:1;40:24;
41:24;51:9;57:20;
75:10;77:5;83:22;
86:2;87:15;91:7;
92:14;139:13;
149:13,17;171:22;
172:7,15;174:9;
181:5;185:5;187:2,2
happening (1)
34:18
happens (4)
55:1;92:22,23;
139:16
Happy (1)
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (9) formulate - Happy AR 477
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 481, Packet Page 726 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
12:11
harass (1)
189:14
harassing (1)
188:9
harassment (21)
16:21;23:2;31:8;
44:1;58:17,21;60:7;
87:25;109:20,21;
110:5;111:10;
123:15,19;124:6;
126:14,22;129:15;
130:1;149:3;153:20
harassment/discrimination/retaliation/abuse (1) 107:23
Harassment/discrimination/retaliation/abusive (1) 10:5
harbor (1)
100:1
hard (4)
136:15;141:1;
188:19,24
harm (1)
104:24
harsh (2)
73:11,17
Hauck (1)
7:21
hazardous (1)
136:12
head (2)
98:8;112:15
hear (10)
17:13;38:15;
40:12;64:21;78:22;
97:19,20,20;118:15;
155:6
heard (10)
18:19,24;35:2;
63:12,12,15;95:17;
134:5;171:13;174:2
hearing (33)
17:15;19:2;24:13;
25:1,2,19;89:18;
111:21;112:22;
113:2,7,16,17,23;
114:5,8,13;115:9,14,
19;117:21;119:6;
123:11;144:22;
152:10,11;177:3,10,
22;178:5,10;188:20;
192:24
hearings (1)
97:16
hearsay (20)
23:19;25:17,22;
26:3,19,20,22;33:4,
6,7,8,10,20;40:1;
132:14;143:23;
146:9,24;160:21,24
heavy (1)
89:2
Hello (2)
118:6;163:1
help (6)
13:13;39:23;
137:13,14;147:23;
152:19
helpful (2)
40:17;161:19
Here's (1)
93:6
Heron (5)
48:9;57:21;
111:22;113:1;148:5
H-e-r-o-n (1)
48:9
Heron's (1)
58:9
herself (1)
63:7
hesitation (1)
37:25
hey (4)
87:8;93:5;141:7;
181:4
hi (3)
138:19;139:6;
165:11
high (4)
135:4,22;140:14;
164:16
highlight (1)
54:11
highlighted (1)
65:14
high-voltage (1)
166:7
hike (1)
19:14
hinder (1)
105:1
hip (3)
15:9;66:11;86:22
hips (1)
20:17
hire (2)
10:22;137:15
hired (2)
134:24;137:7
history (3)
124:13;137:25;
158:20
hit (1)
170:12
hold (8)
80:19;150:21;
158:8;169:8,24;
171:6;174:5;186:3
honest (11)
47:5,7;70:6,10;
144:17;148:7,11;
149:1;185:8;186:17;
190:16
honestly (8)
47:13;83:15;94:6;
152:5;172:23;
181:18;184:12;
185:4
honesty (2)
45:17;76:18
honor (1)
36:7
hook (1)
140:22
hope (2)
10:14;89:15
Hopefully (3)
78:21;102:21;
166:16
hoping (3)
12:11;96:15;
153:19
hot (1)
168:9
hour (13)
11:21;48:23;49:9;
54:16;68:19;69:10,
21;113:18,19;150:1;
155:18;172:5,12
hours (2)
46:23;140:19
Howard (4)
31:25;53:11,13;
117:8
HR (4)
101:13;103:19;
111:23;113:21
human (7)
29:12;46:23;59:8;
64:18;110:3;112:23;
128:13
humiliating (2)
108:11;128:3
hurt (5)
147:16;163:3,4,7,
15 HURTADO (168)
7:18,19;8:8,13,19,
25;9:5,8;10:16;11:8,
17;12:2,3,23;13:2;
21:8,11,16,24;22:1,
17,22,25;23:4,9,24;
24:5,9,16,20,25;
25:5,8,20,23;26:4,6;
28:9,12;29:25;30:4,
6;33:13,22;34:6,8;
37:12;38:8,11,14,19,
24;39:1,17,21;40:2,
13,21,22;61:18;
62:12;66:2;68:3,12;
71:7;74:13,16;76:9,
16,23;77:13,25;78:2,
3,12;79:18,21;93:11;
94:1;95:23,25;96:2,
18;97:4,5,8,10,13;
98:17,20;112:16;
117:23;118:25;
120:12,24;121:8;
122:10,20;123:20;
124:7,15,22;125:1;
126:3;127:4,5,8;
128:4;129:8,9,12;
131:4;132:1,5,11,14,
16;143:19,22;
144:25;146:8,23;
147:11;148:21;
150:18,24;151:21;
153:14;154:14;
155:13,15;156:8,9;
157:17;159:14;
160:11,21;162:18,
20,24;169:12,13;
170:7;175:9,16;
176:5,6,25;177:2;
179:24;180:2,18;
181:14;182:22;
183:14;187:13;
190:4,24;191:8,15;
192:9,11,20;193:4,
12,18,23;194:12
H-u-r-t-a-d-o (1)
7:19
Hurtado's (1)
155:21
hypothetical (1)
54:24
I
I- (1)
168:19
ID (1)
81:22
idea (4)
65:3;95:9;185:25;
193:12
ideas (1)
159:1
identical (2)
43:23;161:4
identified (1)
158:3
IDs (1)
81:1
ignored (3)
15:21;87:10;92:5
ill (1)
102:22
image (2)
149:12;186:10
immediately (5)
140:24;147:10,18;
149:19;187:1
impact (5)
40:19;64:3,7,14;
67:14
impacted (3)
67:16;151:19;
153:11
impeachment (2)
26:1,21
important (1)
130:25
impose (1)
128:18
imposed (1)
8:12
impossible (2)
144:15;179:20
impressed (1)
45:16
impression (8)
45:4;67:11,23;
75:9,11,13;77:6,11
improvement (2)
128:22;129:16
inappropriate (3)
19:18;130:18;
190:13
inasmuch (2)
26:21;146:13
incapable (2)
18:17;124:14
incident (31)
17:3;24:14,20;
32:13;43:8;49:4;
53:18;60:25;76:22;
82:5;91:1;92:14;
94:2;100:23;101:8;
120:18;124:13;
126:8,11,16;138:11;
139:10;147:8,9,10;
148:25;149:2;163:2;
171:11;174:7,16
incidents (3)
117:13;124:18;
129:23
inclined (1)
21:18
included (3)
33:16,17;146:14
includes (3)
23:25;75:17;
126:22
including (6)
16:10;22:17;
30:20;45:17;99:24;
109:20
inconsistencies (1)
115:15
incorporated (1)
22:20
indeed (2)
74:6;75:2
indicate (2)
38:14;124:14
indicated (5)
9:11;22:11;89:22;
108:11;158:20
indicates (1)
18:15
indication (3)
18:16;72:8;119:15
individual (1)
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (10) harass - individual AR 478
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 482, Packet Page 727 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
159:8
individuals (1)
88:16
inefficiency (2)
16:17;104:19
inefficient (1)
104:23
inexcusable (3)
16:17;104:19,24
influence (1)
41:13
inform (2)
111:16,17
information (6)
45:8;47:3;56:15;
67:20;75:12;148:19
information's (1)
104:12
informed (1)
40:6
initial (8)
50:9;69:1,4,5,7,8,
20;101:18
initially (7)
37:4,5;56:24;61:3;
73:3;101:24;121:18
initiate (1)
129:7
inside (4)
49:11;83:10;
89:16;191:25
insofar (1)
67:16
installation (8)
13:6;32:19;92:8;
96:8,10;109:4;
111:14;131:2
installations (1)
14:6
installing (1)
135:11
instance (2)
109:1;157:18
instances (2)
129:17;164:1
instead (2)
91:12;102:8
instructed (5)
34:14;47:5,7;
49:17;50:5
insubordinate (1)
107:16
insubordination (1)
47:18
insulting (1)
108:10
integrity (2)
111:12;166:22
intend (3)
11:11;25:10;33:23
intended (1)
123:3
intending (1)
19:12
intent (2)
165:10,12
intention (1)
19:17
intentionally (1)
75:12
interact (3)
95:12;118:9,17
interacted (2)
81:12;95:12
interacting (3)
20:2;82:14;83:23
interaction (14)
17:5;18:20;35:18;
37:16;44:12;53:15;
63:1;82:4;104:15;
139:11;153:22;
164:1;175:2;190:12
interactions (17)
19:8,25;20:3,11,
25;36:24;52:15;
62:25;63:4;73:10;
74:17;81:7;95:16;
118:14;138:13,25;
153:22
interest (1)
89:23
interested (1)
52:13
International (1)
9:19
interrupt (3)
28:5;56:20;130:2
interrupted (1)
68:20
interrupting (1)
28:4
Interruption (1)
12:17
intervals (1)
68:21
intervene (1)
88:4
intervened (4)
36:4,6;44:11,13
intervening (1)
30:16
intervention (1)
36:23
interview (71)
10:11;17:1;19:2;
20:12;31:16;32:3,
10;38:7,20,25;39:7,
8;42:16;43:2;46:22,
25,25;47:1,6,8,22,
24;48:4,13,16,22,22;
49:2;51:2;54:16,22;
62:13,14;65:11;
66:21;67:6;68:8,9;
69:6,7,11,21;70:15,
21;71:2,18;73:2,8,8;
77:7,22;107:7,17;
108:12;148:3,4,8,9,
19,20;149:21;
150:16;151:19;
170:25;172:5,12,20;
176:7,8;185:12,23
interviewed (16)
31:11,12,15,19;
32:6,9;41:4,6;42:15,
22;46:17;48:6;
53:12;61:15;62:21;
184:24
interviews (9)
24:12;25:5,8;
29:16;30:17;61:12;
102:2;117:5;150:9
into (48)
9:13;10:20;20:4;
22:16;23:14;24:2,
24;27:2;28:17;34:3;
38:25;41:10;48:17;
54:3,16;56:18;
74:19;75:25;87:22;
98:14,23;100:24;
101:4,8;102:13;
110:23;114:12,15;
127:25;130:21;
133:19;144:24;
145:8;149:12,21;
150:3,13;157:15;
159:18;167:16,17;
168:10;171:20;
172:20,21;173:3;
188:8,9
introduce (1)
7:16
introduced (1)
27:8
investigate (2)
16:2;165:17
investigating (1)
29:13
Investigation (33)
10:10;25:16;29:5,
10,16;30:11;41:10;
45:19;46:4;47:1,16;
61:13;62:15;69:23;
70:5;71:15;100:11;
101:4,7,8,10;102:11;
107:8;110:14,19;
114:18;115:6,16;
116:25;117:3,14;
129:1;133:12
investigations (3)
28:25;29:2;123:15
Investigative (17)
10:10;17:1;22:14;
24:22;25:19;30:11,
17;34:4;40:7;41:13;
75:15;101:15,19;
103:18;107:17;
114:18;119:13
investigator (9)
13:21;16:2,4,24;
47:12;64:16;71:10;
101:10,12
invite (1)
12:21
inviting (1)
46:5
involved (7)
82:6;94:8;123:14;
126:10;146:13;
150:9;183:17
involvement (2)
53:5,5
involving (3)
43:6;123:18;
139:11
irrelevant (3)
62:18;157:20,22
issue (8)
8:5,11;48:18;
75:15;91:6;124:14;
153:10;179:12
issued (1)
125:25
issues (4)
45:12;68:22;
147:21;184:20
J
jacket (3)
89:1,3;165:3
jail (1)
69:15
January (10)
16:1;29:11;37:7,7,
14;90:25,25;92:12;
100:18;129:2
jaw (1)
87:5
jealous (3)
183:2;184:14,16
Jerod (21)
7:8,8,9,10;8:1;
29:20;46:4;63:22;
81:3;91:8,9,18,18;
92:1,4,6;100:8;
134:3;169:8,24;
178:23
Jesus (6)
13:15;31:19;
32:20;35:19;42:16;
78:25
job (18)
9:15;28:24;45:17;
49:25,25;50:1;80:7;
88:2;96:7;136:14;
140:24;153:4;159:9;
163:6,13;167:20;
179:10;190:15
Joe (5)
13:21;16:2;22:2;
27:11;46:18
join (3)
26:7;97:6;157:20
joining (1)
78:20
joint (21)
9:1,4,11,13,14,16,
21,23,25;10:2,4,7,9,
12;45:24;102:15;
104:3;106:7,22;
107:21;110:11
jointly (2)
23:10;24:7
joked (1)
139:5
Joking (1)
142:6
judgment (1)
54:25
Julius (1)
24:21
June (1)
10:22
jury (1)
77:15
justified (1)
109:8
justify (2)
127:21;178:9
justifying (1)
19:9
JX (1)
9:5
K
keep (2)
153:4;167:5
keeping (1)
168:8
kept (3)
87:14;137:13,14
key (1)
41:18
keys (18)
14:10;44:18;
63:22,23,25;65:3,7;
86:4,6;91:18;92:6,7;
95:4,7;96:4,8,9,16
kick (1)
19:14
kind (52)
20:18,19,20;
42:12;49:17;57:1;
58:4,6;61:10;68:6;
71:16;76:18;81:6;
84:7,18,21;85:10,11,
12,21;86:9,21;87:7,
13,14,17;88:10;95:2,
9;102:4;121:5;
122:15;130:2,6;
136:4;139:15;
140:14;143:4,9;
152:18;153:7,21;
154:9;163:7,15,19;
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (11) individuals - kind AR 479
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 483, Packet Page 728 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
171:20;181:19;
182:24;184:8;
185:13;188:24
kiss (2)
142:6;149:6
kitchen (2)
84:3;85:13
knee (10)
17:9;42:4;55:22;
66:17,19;67:2;115:4,
11;176:11;177:8
knew (15)
14:21;15:14;41:9;
52:2,3,3;74:3;76:18;
77:20;84:10;126:2;
163:23;167:15;
174:4;178:9
knowing (2)
191:14;192:1
knowledge (2)
137:25;183:8
knows (2)
28:3;87:8
L
labeled (2)
102:15;104:3
Laborers (2)
9:19;48:12
Lack (1)
160:21
Lacks (3)
125:1;132:14;
143:22
ladies (1)
138:17
lady (2)
82:15;146:19
laid (1)
108:21
language (4)
38:2;95:18;
118:16;127:11
lapse (1)
54:25
laptop (1)
27:5
largely (1)
43:10
larger (1)
17:19
last (18)
7:19;46:22;56:8;
80:17;82:21;83:19;
97:10;127:22;
139:21;144:9;
147:22;152:2;153:7,
13;160:9;161:2;
163:12;181:20
lasted (1)
48:22
Lastly (1)
20:6
late (4)
12:12;17:23;
99:15;112:19
later (16)
57:3;69:2;92:24;
115:4,12;118:20;
119:22;120:2;
134:25;135:18;
148:25;152:10;
172:16;177:8,11;
187:5
laughed (4)
139:5;142:4;
164:12;188:14
law (2)
28:20,21
lay (5)
21:17;25:3,9;
33:24;145:12
lazy (1)
163:10
lead (2)
80:22;83:1
Leading (3)
37:2;150:18;
151:21
learned (2)
34:2;52:5
least (4)
22:12;56:8;60:7;
154:22
Leave (9)
9:22;103:11,13;
129:4;142:23;
162:14;174:21;
181:3;189:18
leaving (10)
13:25;54:11;
84:24;85:3;142:14;
169:3,17;171:10;
177:5;182:4
LED (1)
135:12
leer (2)
74:19,23
left (11)
13:12;55:6;56:1,2;
137:6;142:20,21;
174:14;177:13;
181:6;182:13
leg (11)
66:18,19,22;67:2;
143:2;170:12;
171:13,19;172:2;
177:4,13
Leslie (33)
13:10;31:21;39:7;
51:3,16;82:15;84:1,
3;85:2,2,8;89:12,20,
23;91:9,21;92:5;
93:9;94:4,8;138:13,
20;141:7,15,18;
167:3;173:11;
176:17;180:23;
181:4;187:21;188:1,
5 Leslie's (3)
82:21;83:14;87:4
less (4)
72:21;73:11,14;
163:4
lesser (2)
102:9;152:22
lets (1)
168:10
letter (8)
46:9;103:12;
144:8,18,19;152:14;
178:3;179:6
level (5)
123:18;124:5;
125:18;140:14;
152:23
Lewandowski (2)
103:2;112:25
liar (5)
55:5,6;69:12;
163:9;174:8
license (1)
137:11
licensed (1)
137:10
lie (11)
41:9;45:5,6,16;
51:10,23;69:12;
168:17;175:6;
181:17;183:17
lied (3)
51:25;169:14;
175:13
lies (2)
67:18;176:16
Lieutenant (37)
13:15;14:9;15:15,
19,23;17:4;23:5;
31:19;36:4;42:16,24,
25;45:5;73:7,20;
79:22;80:6;93:22;
95:24;96:23;100:20,
24;101:6;102:3;
105:16;108:13;
114:24;115:6;117:8;
174:2;175:1;180:13;
181:16;182:16,24;
183:16;184:6
life (2)
151:17;153:11
lifted (3)
15:10;114:20;
119:14
light (2)
17:24;191:12
lighter (1)
165:3
lighting (4)
135:8,9,12,13
lights (28)
14:18,20;35:2;
43:16,17;45:11;
49:11;52:17;85:12,
15,20,24;86:1;91:19,
20;139:24;140:5;
141:3,6,11,14,16,17;
165:14,15,22;166:3,
19 Lim (1)
150:11
limit (1)
138:1
limitations (3)
119:10;185:14,15
line (3)
71:16;147:6;
153:17
lines (2)
55:8;166:7
link (2)
46:21;47:3
list (6)
31:11,11,16;
59:21;103:16;
109:24
listed (3)
31:15,17;111:2
listen (9)
39:14,15,22;
40:24;151:8;154:24;
176:20;178:15;
179:25
listened (1)
117:4
listening (6)
142:17;173:22;
174:19;178:7;181:6;
182:6
literally (1)
94:10
little (25)
17:23;28:16;
39:12;58:25;83:7;
91:1,14;98:24;
106:23;108:8;
113:13;119:22;
120:1,2;122:14;
136:5;140:16;147:6,
16;151:7,14;153:7;
163:15;166:21;
185:7
living (1)
134:21
Local (2)
9:20;48:12
located (4)
10:25;13:8;18:21;
82:17
locating (1)
135:8
location (3)
49:24;65:1;130:20
locked (1)
92:7
logical (1)
54:5
long (15)
28:22;70:8;80:12;
81:12;98:25;113:17;
124:1;136:10;
137:24;139:17;
140:14;173:24;
179:19;189:21;
190:22
longer (6)
39:12;84:4,6;
94:24;109:21;
156:19
longevity (1)
81:15
look (19)
15:17;21:13;44:7;
74:21;87:6,17;
91:20;92:3;100:24;
112:4,7;117:11;
121:22;131:18;
133:18;136:18;
141:13;143:25;
193:10
looked (10)
14:18;58:12,13;
69:14;85:10;87:13;
139:24;141:24;
164:12;188:16
Looking (14)
20:22;43:16;44:8;
63:7,9;120:9;
123:23;141:2,6,15,
16;165:24;167:17;
187:20
looks (9)
21:8;24:12;59:22;
60:15;90:6;91:19;
110:6;116:5;164:25
lose (5)
139:15,18;140:18,
20;165:25
lot (11)
21:17,21;88:16;
115:15;120:16;
137:25;139:15;
146:22;159:10;
188:4;190:16
Loud (1)
78:23
loudly (3)
27:16;79:4;98:7
low (2)
45:14;67:9
lower (15)
15:8,9,10;35:6,7,8;
41:23;65:24,25;
66:11,11,12,24;68:2;
73:22
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (12) kiss - lower AR 480
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 484, Packet Page 729 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
lowered (1)
35:6
lunch (13)
12:12;13:18;49:8,
9;63:6;82:10;83:2,5,
6;91:8;95:1;155:14,
18 LUNCHEON (1)
156:4
lunchtime (1)
89:8
lying (25)
75:7;141:13,22;
147:17;149:21;
163:5,10;166:20;
168:3,6;169:2,4,16,
21;170:8;172:7;
173:11;174:6;175:3;
178:21;181:8;
182:16,17;184:3,7
M
ma'am (14)
7:9,11;82:19;
85:16;86:1;88:22;
89:25;164:11,24;
166:18;167:24;
168:4;184:16;
187:12
mad (3)
50:22;163:25;
188:25
Madam (1)
193:13
made-up (1)
177:16
main (2)
41:22;81:21
mainly (3)
96:6;135:21;
163:20
maintain (2)
21:2;106:4
maintained (4)
66:20;69:10,11;
156:17
maintenance (6)
10:24;100:3,4;
103:23;106:3;
135:23
maintenancewise (1)
140:15
major (2)
42:13;52:21
makes (3)
75:17;96:8;150:24
making (11)
51:7,8;70:19;76:2;
102:22;114:10;
115:1;117:1;143:5;
163:10;177:16
mall (1)
173:25
man (7)
15:17;36:10,13;
92:3;149:13;150:5;
172:22
manage (1)
75:13
manager (12)
8:16;13:11;14:1;
19:6;34:16;83:1;
84:17;90:9,11;91:17,
24;103:13
manner (8)
16:16;37:20;63:9;
84:19;104:14;163:8;
170:14;177:19
many (6)
68:9,10;89:2;94:7;
139:17;154:19
March (4)
17:1;29:17;46:19,
24 Margaret (5)
8:23;9:7;11:25;
28:2;38:13
marina (1)
100:1
marked (1)
145:16
materiality (1)
145:3
math (1)
179:19
matter (19)
18:14,19;27:9;
29:19,20;44:18,24;
78:19;81:11;88:1;
92:7;97:25;128:17;
145:3;151:18;
156:20;157:10;
159:6;179:5
matters (4)
11:15;52:16;
62:20;123:12
may (15)
20:15;24:11;26:6,
11;27:14;45:24;
47:18;62:21;121:24;
156:17,18,19;
159:14;177:7;
184:10
maybe (16)
12:12;54:16;
61:10;81:14;94:24;
119:21;121:16;
122:24;151:13;
158:24;178:14,24;
183:2;184:5,14,16
meal (1)
94:16
mean (23)
33:7,8,14,16,18;
56:7;57:11;69:20;
72:11,12;73:17;
83:25;85:18;122:2,
22,25;132:18;
136:25;149:5;
156:24;183:1;
188:20;193:13
meaning (7)
49:25;50:17;65:3;
68:15;69:8;176:17;
189:3
meaningfully (1)
189:13
means (3)
54:3;122:21;
137:25
meant (5)
19:13;50:16;69:4,
5;120:14
measures (3)
128:10,19;129:14
meat (1)
168:10
mechanism (1)
166:7
medical (1)
147:21
meet (2)
46:13;93:4
meeting (5)
46:5,20;49:8;
172:1;194:11
member (1)
111:13
Memorandum (1)
9:16
memory (4)
60:15;72:1;77:7;
185:14
mention (2)
130:17;148:6
mentioned (16)
35:20;62:23;
64:24;66:11;86:5,6,
14;88:9;91:16,18;
94:2;95:3,11;106:1;
114:19;136:20
mentioning (4)
84:16;86:4;95:9;
143:16
mentions (1)
73:20
merchandise (1)
14:5
messed (2)
141:20;167:4
met (1)
143:4
Metropolitan (1)
99:20
middle (7)
20:12;69:6;89:3;
142:17;173:20,21;
179:21
mid-February (1)
32:8
mid-January (1)
92:17
mid-morning (1)
12:7
midsection (1)
17:19
might (7)
54:25;55:7;56:2;
141:21;167:16;
183:16;184:7
military (9)
14:5;32:19;89:17;
109:4;131:2;146:3;
157:2,6,8
million (1)
140:12
mind (8)
75:6;86:16;109:7;
130:10;149:12;
159:1;163:16;173:3
mindful (1)
105:3
mine (1)
175:5
minimize (2)
17:24;115:3
minor (3)
45:3;65:20;66:13
minute (5)
38:15;39:13;
40:15,16;173:10
minutes (27)
32:9;39:12,16;
40:14;48:23;54:16;
68:19;69:10,21;
78:13;94:25;113:19;
115:4,12;149:21,25;
150:2,2;171:15;
172:12,17,19;
174:22;177:8,11;
186:12,23
misconduct (4)
111:7;120:22;
121:23;123:18
missed (1)
11:14
Misstates (4)
120:24;126:4;
169:5;170:1
mistake (1)
190:1
mitigating (1)
70:12
modern (1)
58:5
moment (5)
24:5;73:6;90:2;
109:14;151:1
momentary (1)
54:25
money (2)
165:18;184:15
Monterey (54)
7:13,15,20;8:6,16;
9:17,18,25;10:2,4,7;
11:1;13:3,5;16:1,8,
11;17:11;18:12,22;
22:2;29:3,6;31:5;
32:18;42:25;46:19;
47:17;48:10,11;
49:7;50:1;57:8;
58:18;80:11;88:18;
89:1,4;91:7;99:1,2,
12,19;100:14;104:4,
17;107:22;134:23;
149:23;156:9,17;
164:22;165:4;190:9
month (1)
135:17
months (3)
172:16;185:3;
187:5
moot (1)
50:3
mopped (1)
13:12
mopping (6)
32:23;142:1;
167:22;168:1,2;
169:15
more (33)
11:20;28:2;46:22;
50:11;67:5;68:7;
73:11,14;78:2;87:5;
92:25;94:16;95:24;
102:13;108:8;120:8;
123:25;135:7;136:3,
5;137:7;141:4;
142:4;145:19;154:1;
158:21;159:8;163:4;
165:24;166:1;
187:14;190:6;
191:20
morning (24)
7:4,18;11:21;13:2;
18:11;25:11;27:6;
28:13,14;62:8,9;
78:5,18,21;79:22,23;
81:16,17,23;93:22;
97:18;98:21,22;
136:9
most (4)
43:11;118:12;
136:13;157:21
Mostly (2)
45:13;66:9
motion (8)
57:25;58:1,10;
65:23;115:1;169:22;
170:9,13
motioned (7)
17:9;35:5;56:10;
74:6;101:22;176:11;
177:4
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (13) lowered - motioned AR 481
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 485, Packet Page 730 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
motioning (6)
56:14;57:17,21;
74:2;101:25;177:8
motivated (1)
51:23
motivating (1)
53:17
motivation (2)
41:8;181:8
motive (7)
45:5,6,15;67:19;
182:16,17;184:13
MOU (2)
193:23;194:1
move (13)
42:14;48:19;68:6;
77:13;133:4;138:9;
139:9;146:9,23;
148:2;152:9;153:15;
164:4
moved (2)
27:5;144:24
moving (1)
153:24
much (11)
12:23;43:22,22;
62:20;78:8;83:5;
85:19;136:1;147:25;
176:16;190:23
multiple (6)
16:8;57:9;69:3;
111:10;125:8;
127:15
music (2)
45:12;52:18
must (2)
59:20;183:1
mutual (1)
111:11
myself (6)
27:8;39:4;82:13;
84:1;103:2;112:25
N
name (14)
7:5,19,24;34:15;
51:19;52:4;53:16;
59:18;78:18;82:21;
83:19,20;129:21;
165:4
named (3)
13:24;31:25;82:15
names (1)
130:8
nature (7)
44:4;71:15;
128:12;135:10;
137:5;139:3;150:14
navy (2)
165:2,3
Neal (4)
29:12;46:4;59:8;
112:24
nearly (1)
43:22
necessarily (2)
85:20;87:5
necessary (4)
18:4;108:16;
157:14;192:25
neck (2)
188:17,23
need (32)
11:17;12:8,9,15;
27:15,16;38:9;40:12,
19;49:24;77:16;
83:8;112:4;120:3,
22;121:7;125:13;
134:19;135:18;
137:2;150:5,13;
159:14,19;161:16;
166:24;173:6;
176:19;180:19;
182:21;183:7;193:2
needed (4)
12:14;178:4,9;
179:1
needs (3)
84:12;91:17,22
negate (1)
19:17
negates (1)
19:7
negative (2)
72:17;139:7
neglect (3)
16:18;104:19,24
neglected (1)
9:1
nerve-racking (1)
151:7
nervous (2)
150:17,19
neutral (1)
57:1
new (6)
90:10,16,18;
92:20;154:9;184:14
next (10)
9:4;13:18,23;
14:25;42:15;59:24;
78:11;82:11;92:23;
94:10
nice (5)
138:19,22;188:7;
194:7,11
nicely (2)
15:17;92:4
night (1)
152:2
Nine (2)
80:14;143:13
nobody (2)
171:15;178:7
nods (1)
98:8
non-binding (1)
8:5
nonchalantly (1)
176:13
none (2)
27:24;156:20
nonsensical (2)
52:25;53:7
non-supervisors (1)
109:22
Nope (1)
171:2
normal (1)
167:8
normally (2)
139:21;165:10
North (1)
9:19
note (15)
17:18;114:9;
118:20,23;119:9,15;
144:11;177:21;
178:4,10;179:1,7,14;
180:3,3
noted (1)
33:5
notes (3)
27:25;79:12;98:13
Notice (26)
9:21,23;10:3,9;
23:20,22;34:5;46:3;
102:18;103:10;
104:8,13;108:3;
110:14;111:2,15;
112:17;116:2,21,22;
117:19;118:21;
119:7,19,22;132:9
noticed (1)
44:21
notified (3)
100:16,18,19
notify (1)
37:10
noting (1)
26:3
notwithstanding (1)
67:22
November (4)
11:3;28:23;
112:20;116:12
number (20)
9:4;10:21,23;11:2,
4;30:8;45:24;58:20;
59:20;90:23;106:22;
109:13,14;127:22;
134:17;162:1,3;
169:6;170:11,12
numerous (3)
20:3,4;135:2
O
oath (2)
175:2,7
object (10)
21:15;66:2;
122:10;126:3;
132:11;143:19;
146:8;153:14;
156:10;160:12
objected (1)
21:20
objection (39)
22:12;33:4,11;
37:2;76:23;118:25;
120:12,24;121:8;
122:13,20,23;124:7,
15;125:1;131:23;
147:11;148:21;
150:18,25;151:1,6;
154:1,14;156:7,12;
160:21;169:5,9,11,
24,25;175:8,10,13;
180:16;181:11;
182:18;191:15
objections (7)
12:4;23:21;24:11;
26:15,17;144:1,25
obligation (1)
19:23
obscene (1)
105:15
observe (3)
38:1;64:17;127:12
observed (4)
15:24;35:21;
49:10;63:7
Obviously (12)
25:11;33:18;78:5;
92:21,21;96:7;
123:6;129:22;
131:11;145:2;193:7;
194:1
occasionally (2)
63:7;157:3
occasions (1)
57:9
occurred (1)
55:14
o'clock (2)
139:20;164:21
October (6)
9:22,24;99:3;
102:24;112:19;
129:3
Off (16)
12:18,19;22:7,9;
26:12;44:3;78:14;
82:15;94:17;97:17;
112:15;131:14;
139:25;153:4;
159:22;176:19
offend (1)
19:12
offended (13)
19:18;35:13;44:5;
69:13;88:11,13;
188:13,15,20;189:9,
12;191:14,21
offensive (10)
17:25;35:15;
63:12,15;95:18;
108:13,15;118:16;
127:11;139:1
offer (2)
75:23;152:17
offered (1)
54:18
office (2)
59:8;167:6
officer (15)
17:14;25:2;32:21;
35:20;43:5;51:18;
53:16,21;69:18;
80:15,22,25;111:25;
119:6;123:11
officers (5)
43:3,5;51:14;
52:13,16
official (2)
43:15;47:15
off-the-record (2)
8:3;22:10
often (8)
94:14,16,17;118:9,
11;127:16,16,17
old (4)
15:13;135:21;
157:19,21
once (6)
15:7;75:19;86:3;
165:23;173:23;
174:1
one (79)
11:20;12:5;23:1;
24:5;25:2;26:8;
27:21,24;28:2;43:4;
44:16,20;48:19;52:1,
10,13;53:8,8;54:6;
55:4;56:13;60:10;
63:21;68:14,18,18,
21,22;70:14;71:20;
73:2,6;74:23;75:23;
79:10,11;82:9;88:6;
89:2;90:18;91:7;
92:23;93:4;95:25;
98:12;108:25;
109:13;128:15;
132:21;137:10;
140:22;141:24;
146:18;148:6;
150:10;152:13;
154:22;156:16,16;
158:7;159:16;161:2,
3,4,7,7;167:24;
169:7;170:11;171:7;
175:24;178:21;
187:7;190:1,11,22;
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (14) motioning - one AR 482
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 486, Packet Page 731 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
191:9;193:9,22
ones (1)
23:7
one's (1)
72:1
one-word (1)
64:11
online (2)
58:13;146:5
only (36)
17:8;23:7;27:17,
17,21,23;33:5;37:8;
40:4;54:7,10;66:10;
70:14;79:10,10;
92:21;98:8,11;
105:3;108:25;111:4;
113:5;115:4;137:10;
140:6;141:24;151:8;
157:17;166:7;
167:24;174:21,24;
175:23;179:19;
183:7,24
open (29)
12:9;13:12,13,25;
14:12;32:22,22;
50:5;52:3,9;54:4,10,
12;55:6;56:2;84:25;
85:3;96:9;139:23;
140:3,17;159:13,15;
165:16;168:1,8;
169:3,17;173:25
opened (3)
29:15;52:6;140:1
opening (5)
11:12,14;12:21;
13:1;18:10
operates (1)
188:4
Operating (7)
10:8;16:9,13;
103:22;106:2,8;
135:9
opinion (9)
43:18;45:14,18;
66:22;67:9;71:24;
153:23;154:4;179:5
opportunity (9)
18:18;21:13;51:4;
71:11;127:11;
154:21;155:23;
159:3;189:16
oral (1)
11:11
order (28)
14:15,17,21;
15:21;26:9,11;
34:22;35:1;36:2;
62:11;67:7;84:11;
85:21;86:8;87:16;
91:22;92:8;136:8,14,
21;141:17;163:10;
166:24,25;167:2,10,
11;174:23
ordered (7)
20:5;35:25;44:8;
89:11;142:12;
170:16;171:14
ordering (4)
83:13,14;94:12;
193:17
orders (5)
14:16;81:9;
141:19;167:4,13
ordinances (2)
8:18;105:25
original (2)
55:4;152:20
Originally (1)
165:9
others (5)
14:5;37:24;70:9;
162:5,9
otherwise (5)
38:2;75:18;97:1;
132:4;193:10
out (35)
26:9,11;49:12;
66:5;92:10,19,25;
93:3;96:14;108:21;
132:3;137:13;
140:13;141:10;
143:2;146:19,21,22;
155:7;158:10;161:3;
164:3,10,13;166:9;
167:6,8;171:12,19;
172:20;177:5,12;
185:6;187:5;188:16
outage (1)
163:13
outlet (1)
164:6
outlines (1)
107:22
outright (1)
67:18
outset (3)
47:23;54:19;77:7
outside (3)
16:1;140:5;143:2
ovens (1)
168:9
over (22)
18:13;19:21,24;
20:2,3,22;68:18;
94:17;95:17;106:6;
107:21;134:19,20;
140:21;165:20;
166:16;170:15;
174:20;179:15;
180:5;183:23;
188:23
overall (2)
61:16;162:12
overbroad (3)
147:12;148:21;
191:15
overrule (4)
66:4;78:1;122:23;
151:5
Overruled (22)
37:3;68:13;76:25;
119:1;120:13;121:1,
9;123:22;124:8,16;
125:3;126:5;146:10,
25;147:13;148:22;
151:22;154:15;
160:13;170:4;
180:17;191:16
oversee (1)
99:24
overseeing (1)
135:24
overwhelmed (2)
137:8,12
own (4)
145:24;167:13;
178:15;183:8
P
page (6)
30:10;47:11;
59:24;106:14;
110:23,24
Pages (5)
16:14;30:20,22;
31:10;106:11
paid (4)
103:11;129:3;
142:25;171:16
pain (1)
176:15
pants (2)
88:24;165:2
paper (1)
141:19
paragraph (3)
46:12;47:9;110:22
paraphrasing (1)
67:10
Parenthesis (2)
46:20,21
park (1)
165:14
parked (1)
49:12
parking (1)
100:1
parlance (1)
58:5
part (17)
22:19;28:24;
43:11;57:20;66:23;
112:13;120:1;
125:17,17;126:7;
131:24;132:1;157:6,
12;158:5;173:10;
187:23
partial (1)
61:8
participated (2)
60:16;124:23
particular (5)
21:15;31:6;51:3;
69:18;94:20
particularly (2)
21:20;96:6
parties (8)
8:3,10;9:10;10:13;
11:11;159:5;192:21;
194:7
partner (1)
13:18
partnership (1)
130:23
parts (4)
48:17,25,25;
187:24
party (2)
12:10;156:23
pass (1)
85:16
passcode (1)
46:21
passing (2)
118:13,18
past (1)
163:21
pattern (1)
18:15
Pay (8)
9:22;103:13;
135:6,15,17;153:5;
189:19;193:22
paying (2)
94:11;153:12
peaceful (1)
83:23
pelvic (3)
35:8;41:23;61:7
pelvis (2)
51:1;66:11
pendency (1)
129:1
pending (3)
72:13;176:3;
187:11
people (27)
15:1;28:4;31:11,
12,15;34:17;50:6;
64:17,19;65:12;
70:25;72:12;76:3;
94:7;127:15;130:8,9,
14;137:15;154:17,
20;164:2,15;175:21,
25;189:21;190:7
per (3)
14:15;72:17;
193:23
perceive (2)
37:22;64:20
percent (8)
51:13;61:10;77:2,
8;88:14;187:19;
192:5,5
perception (4)
45:3;64:18;67:13;
68:1
perfect (1)
64:18
perform (6)
16:15;57:10;
104:14,20;136:24;
179:10
performance (12)
47:14;104:22;
128:22;129:16;
133:8;157:1,4;159:7,
9;160:9;161:9,20
performed (2)
157:3,6
performing (1)
10:24
perhaps (4)
53:17;73:3;
118:20;161:11
period (2)
68:18;166:6
permit (2)
157:12;158:4
persistent (1)
51:20
person (16)
13:24;26:9;27:21;
31:25;45:16;51:18;
72:3,4;79:10;83:17;
113:20,21;130:16;
167:14;188:7;
190:12
personal (7)
27:25;79:12;82:4;
98:13;112:13;
151:17;183:8
personally (3)
81:4;82:3;102:25
personnel (9)
14:5;16:8;117:11;
131:21,25;132:2;
146:14;156:11,13
perspective (2)
139:13;152:12
perspectively (1)
50:16
pervert (1)
178:17
phone (9)
32:9;35:25;38:1;
42:17;44:7;48:19;
79:13;98:13;136:10
physical (10)
80:4;104:23;
105:20;108:10,24;
111:7;115:1;178:1,6,
23 physically (11)
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (15) ones - physically AR 483
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 487, Packet Page 732 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
43:5;114:10;
144:15;152:15;
167:6;177:25;178:2,
14,23;179:14;180:4
physicals (1)
144:10
pickup (1)
45:11
picture (2)
145:25,25
pictures (2)
58:14;146:18
piece (1)
157:5
pieces (1)
42:13
pizza (1)
83:14
place (7)
33:4;112:3;149:9;
154:17;183:24;
184:1;190:7
placed (1)
103:11
placeholder (1)
38:13
places (2)
44:18;96:14
placing (1)
103:13
planning (1)
49:6
play (7)
25:10;38:6,21;
39:11;40:13;48:25;
110:15
played (3)
38:13,23;40:20
playing (2)
45:12;52:17
please (27)
7:7,17;12:8;22:4;
27:19,23;33:2;34:22,
24;36:21;46:12,16,
23;47:9;49:15;
50:17;53:25;78:24;
91:4;96:25;111:3;
119:4;134:2;151:8,
12;155:15;179:24
pleasure (1)
194:14
pm (1)
194:16
pocket (1)
171:18
pockets (1)
89:2
point (21)
15:3;24:9;33:24;
38:6;48:19;50:3,24;
51:1;54:13;55:4,9;
56:15;68:17;76:20;
87:8;101:3;114:16;
140:25;144:23;
155:20;162:1
pointing (1)
114:11
pole (2)
135:9,9
policies (9)
21:3;106:1;
107:24;111:2;
123:23;153:23;
154:16;190:7,10
policy (25)
10:6;16:22;19:3;
31:9;104:7,11;108:2,
6,9,19,21;109:2,9;
111:5;122:1;127:19,
20;128:20,21;
129:15;153:20;
154:4,13;192:2,4
polite (3)
50:8,21;84:9
politely (2)
13:23;171:16
popular (1)
58:3
PORTER (139)
7:24,25;8:9,14;
10:17;11:9,20;18:7,
8,11;21:12,23;22:11;
23:16,23;24:10;
26:14,17;27:3;33:3,
10;37:2;61:23;62:1,
3,7,9;66:10,15;68:5,
23;71:9;73:18;
74:10;75:4;76:11,12,
15;77:17,19;93:14,
17,21;95:21;96:21,
22;117:25;118:2,5;
119:5,25;120:5,7,20;
121:4,14;122:15,17;
123:4,8,9;124:3,11,
19;125:6;126:9;
127:2;131:7,8,22;
132:10,21;133:3,7,9,
14;134:9,10,13;
138:4,7,8;144:2,23;
145:4,6,9,14;146:11,
17;147:1;148:1;
150:7;151:11,13,15;
152:8;153:18;154:9,
11;155:4,9,24;
157:24;158:9,15,18;
159:12,17,24;160:2,
5,17;161:6,15,18,22,
23;162:13;169:5,8,
24;170:1;175:8,10;
180:16;181:11;
182:18;184:21;
191:1,3,6,19;192:7,
17;193:5,19,25;
194:15
P-o-r-t-e-r (1)
7:25
portion (4)
38:7;39:11;69:7;
192:23
portions (1)
25:10
posed (1)
151:9
position (18)
13:4;19:22;55:11;
56:8;64:21;80:21,
22;82:25;86:19;
99:4,5;104:21;
111:11;134:24;
135:11,15,19;172:18
position/title/duties (1)
10:23
positions (1)
80:19
positive (4)
19:7;20:3,24;
139:7
possession (1)
133:11
possibilities (1)
54:19
possibility (3)
55:7;56:2;75:4
possible (9)
56:1;65:6,8;67:24;
71:4;77:10;97:14;
143:13;178:7
possibly (1)
41:4
post (1)
32:17
post-hearing (1)
11:12
pounds (2)
143:12;179:18
power (11)
135:3,21;139:15,
18;140:14,17,18,20,
23;146:4;163:13
practice (2)
28:20;128:18
preemptively (2)
52:8;54:2
preference (1)
8:24
premarked (1)
30:8
premises (2)
49:7;136:23
prep (1)
94:16
prepare (2)
30:13;177:21
prepared (3)
30:16;39:20;117:1
preponderance (1)
16:6
presence (3)
68:20;70:2,22
present (28)
13:14;15:23;17:4;
18:24;19:11,19;
20:6;32:20;35:20;
42:5,6;43:5;46:25;
51:14,18;69:19;77:4,
9;112:21;114:7,22;
119:21;148:5;
174:15;180:14;
181:9,22;182:2
presented (4)
17:18;114:9;
177:21;178:10
Presidio (31)
10:25;13:5,8,17;
14:2;18:22;32:18,18,
21;42:25;44:18;
49:7;52:5;65:1;80:8,
11;82:18,19;89:16;
90:12;94:3;104:17;
105:1;111:11;
117:16;135:1,16,16,
20;139:11;146:20
pressured (1)
85:22
presume (1)
22:13
pretending (1)
91:19
pretext (1)
43:20
pretty (4)
83:5;85:19;136:1;
156:20
prevent (2)
54:3;163:13
prevented (1)
120:18
prevention (2)
31:8,9
previous (2)
70:17;126:8
previously (3)
75:22;95:12;
116:23
primary (2)
50:24;64:4
printout (2)
103:19;109:17
prior (19)
25:11;26:19;
60:18;62:24,25;
70:24;74:17;88:9;
100:10;124:13;
125:16,17,21,25;
126:11,23;129:20;
150:8;170:1
priority (1)
140:14
prison (1)
188:16
private (1)
57:13
probably (11)
11:21;72:23;
80:17;81:14;127:13;
142:20;147:23;
168:13;169:19;
187:7;190:11
probative (1)
23:19
problem (9)
9:3;53:20;54:21;
80:1;93:24;97:12,
15;105:7;136:25
problematic (1)
52:15
problems (3)
138:20;146:4;
163:21
procedural (1)
11:15
procedure (2)
53:14;167:8
Procedures (6)
10:8;16:9,13;
103:22;106:2,9
proceed (1)
85:12
proceeded (5)
15:21;86:10;
87:16;91:20;92:8
proceeding (1)
27:1
PROCEEDINGS (5)
7:1;12:17;26:10;
157:22;194:16
process (14)
20:9;25:19;64:24;
76:4;102:6,12,14;
123:15;133:12;
151:7;153:9,10,21;
194:10
professional (12)
28:21;50:22;81:8;
84:9,19;88:3;99:8;
118:15;130:24;
138:12;179:5;
189:15
professionalism (2)
21:2;194:5
professionally (1)
109:6
programs (1)
128:22
progress (1)
129:15
progressive (4)
19:9,23;128:21;
129:16
project (1)
135:13
projects (1)
136:7
Promoted (1)
99:14
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (16) physicals - Promoted AR 484
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 488, Packet Page 733 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
promotion (1)
135:6
prompted (1)
73:3
proof (1)
178:13
proper (2)
53:14;81:2
properly (1)
10:14
Proposed (10)
9:23;10:3;102:18;
104:8,13;108:3;
111:3,15;112:17;
116:23
provide (6)
45:7;59:5;68:11;
71:12;139:12;
152:14
provided (9)
40:7,11;70:6,14;
77:4;98:11;119:9;
132:9;160:23
provides (2)
40:11;47:2
providing (1)
91:22
provision (1)
14:4
provisions (1)
105:25
Proximity (1)
37:22
Public (21)
9:20;16:10,11,13;
17:14;20:25;29:6;
48:10;57:7;76:6;
97:6;99:5,10,16,23,
25;103:3;105:13;
111:13;112:24;
162:12
published (1)
156:19
pull (5)
29:23;30:7;90:2;
102:16;164:3
pulled (6)
59:17;139:23;
140:6;146:21;165:9,
14 pulling (1)
146:19
punishment (2)
190:20,21
punitive (2)
120:11;121:20
purpose (12)
25:14;31:3,4;34:2;
40:20;49:25;71:24;
72:2;120:10;122:8;
157:11,25
purposes (4)
26:1,21;64:8;
71:20
pursuant (2)
8:17;31:5
pursuing (1)
121:23
put (20)
11:25;27:13;34:2;
35:5;55:9;98:5;
135:15;140:9;
146:22;158:22;
159:19;164:11;
171:5;179:15;180:4;
188:5;190:14;
193:13;194:6,7
putting (2)
35:7;84:18
puzzle (1)
42:13
puzzling (1)
36:1
PX (2)
142:17;165:18
Q
quarter (1)
140:11
quibble (1)
30:22
quick (5)
33:3;85:16;
131:15;139:25;
143:18
Quickly (6)
9:14;74:13;106:8;
131:19;134:25;
136:12
quite (1)
148:25
quote (5)
15:11,11;17:7,8;
36:11
R
radar (1)
84:19
rain (1)
141:19
Raining (2)
139:15;165:13
rainy (1)
49:9
raise (5)
27:10;78:24;
97:25;134:1;135:6
raised (1)
24:11
raises (1)
95:10
raising (1)
35:6
random (1)
149:22
rang (1)
142:25
rank (1)
80:5
rather (2)
18:25;57:13
reach (3)
92:10;178:11;
179:2
reaction (2)
86:11;87:4
reactions (1)
101:19
read (10)
8:22;10:20;46:12;
47:9;91:4;101:19;
105:18;144:4;
161:16,18
reading (1)
91:14
ready (6)
28:8;78:10;79:17;
98:16;162:19;
167:15
reaffirm (1)
121:5
Real (5)
33:3;139:25;
143:18;156:25;
165:13
realize (2)
146:7,11
really (18)
40:12;57:21;
73:16;74:4;81:15;
89:14;131:1;135:18;
138:22;147:19;
149:7;150:3;161:22;
163:12;184:17;
185:16;188:25;
194:6
rear (2)
34:11,14
rearticulate (1)
66:16
reask (2)
122:15;169:11
reason (10)
21:1;50:7;53:9,17;
100:7;104:21;140:7;
165:21;184:6,13
reasonable (1)
130:16
reasoning (1)
168:16
reasonings (1)
53:8
Reasons (7)
10:1;21:4;53:2;
89:17;103:24;
123:24;156:15
reboot (1)
97:13
rebuttal (1)
192:19
recall (30)
20:10,14,17;
31:15;35:16;36:24;
39:8;41:4;44:19;
50:19;51:12;55:15;
60:13,20;62:24;
63:24;71:22;82:5;
89:10;94:6;113:19;
139:1;147:14;148:4;
170:13;171:20;
174:9,10,11;188:18
recalled (8)
76:21;78:6;97:1;
131:12;148:7;
149:17;175:14;
186:24
recalling (2)
175:13,14
recalls (2)
20:16;175:15
receipt (7)
21:15;23:21;
26:16;131:24;
192:24;193:1,11
receive (11)
12:1,2,3;59:2;
102:5,8;126:13,21,
23;144:19;193:12
received (22)
9:12,13;22:16;
23:14;24:2,24;27:2;
58:18;59:4;60:10;
101:5,16;103:7,12;
116:12;133:19;
145:8;156:25;
157:15;160:8,9,14
receiving (1)
145:25
recent (1)
158:21
recently (3)
72:24;140:9;185:2
Recess (6)
61:25;78:16;
131:16;156:1,4;
159:23
reclosure (1)
140:17
recognize (5)
39:2;58:22;
107:25;113:12,13
recollect (2)
71:21,25
recollected (1)
65:18
recollection (12)
36:18;37:22;
50:20;63:4,5;67:25;
73:9;77:21;151:20;
171:22;175:4,17
recommendations (2)
8:6;45:20
record (36)
10:13,20;12:18,
19;22:7,9;23:2;28:7;
32:10;38:19,25;
39:5;48:13;58:21;
70:5;78:15,17;
96:16;97:17;110:5;
112:13;121:22;
124:18;131:14,17;
156:6;157:12,13,25;
158:4,5;159:10,22;
160:11;194:6,8
recorded (6)
25:11;38:7,20;
47:2;113:2;173:9
recording (6)
39:3,6,8,22;48:3;
114:4
records (3)
27:25;59:6;60:10
recount (1)
72:1
recounting (4)
37:16;67:15;73:9,
21 RECROSS-EXAMINATION (1)
76:14
recurrent (1)
60:16
red (2)
95:10;96:3
redirect (9)
68:17;74:12,15;
76:16;96:1;127:7;
129:11;191:2,5
reducing (1)
116:17
refer (8)
24:6;27:23;62:17;
79:10,12;98:11,12;
103:23
reference (8)
22:20;60:11;61:6;
74:4;118:19;126:11;
161:12;172:2
referenced (5)
31:7;38:4;44:17;
106:9,13
referencing (2)
36:12;74:2
referred (3)
27:24;104:7;108:2
referring (5)
69:24;110:22;
112:5;140:2;143:6
refers (2)
23:24;73:22
reflect (3)
24:3;82:3;117:20
reflected (2)
22:23;47:25
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (17) promotion - reflected AR 485
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 489, Packet Page 734 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
reflecting (1)
153:21
reflective (1)
24:12
refresh (1)
72:1
refresher (1)
125:14
refrigerated (2)
140:12;165:18
Refusal (1)
47:13
regard (2)
108:19;164:16
regarded (6)
35:8,15;43:25;
44:1,5;64:10
regarding (22)
10:13;33:11;60:6;
65:16,18;67:14;
68:9;71:5;74:17,25;
115:20;119:9,11;
123:15,18;126:13,
22;147:7;151:18;
160:7;162:8;194:2
regardless (4)
14:11;86:4;91:18;
192:2
regards (1)
132:22
register (2)
142:12;180:23
registration (1)
99:8
regular (1)
80:22
regularly (1)
60:23
regulations (1)
47:17
relate (1)
157:1
related (1)
53:10
relates (1)
45:19
relating (3)
45:11;47:14;52:17
relation (1)
72:24
relationship (8)
56:11,16,17,24;
65:3;138:12,13;
157:2
relevance (10)
23:18;132:20;
145:3;153:15,16;
154:14;156:20;
157:10;160:12;
161:20
relevant (4)
59:6;114:16,21;
154:6
relied (2)
117:3,9
rely (9)
33:15,20;40:3,10,
14;117:1;130:23;
136:5,17
remains (1)
158:6
remark (2)
35:14;44:3
remarked (1)
70:11
remarks (2)
160:18;162:7
remedy (2)
8:15;154:2
remember (48)
32:3,6;56:13;
60:14;77:8;83:13,15,
16;87:1;88:24,25;
89:3,6;94:6,7,8;
112:8,9,10,15,21;
113:17;143:5;
148:24;149:1,8,14;
150:3,20;152:5;
172:14,15,22,23,24;
173:5;177:7;181:17;
183:15;184:8,21;
185:5,7;186:10,14,
22;187:1,5
remembered (6)
76:21;149:14;
185:9,10;186:7;
187:3
remind (4)
27:15;98:7;134:7;
159:5
REMOTE (2)
7:1;157:20
removed (1)
164:6
R-e-n-n-e (1)
97:7
Renny (16)
17:13;18:2;25:1;
97:6,7,18;98:2,21;
116:15;118:6;
123:10;126:12;
128:6;131:4,9;
152:10
R-e-n-n-y (1)
97:8
rent (1)
140:22
rents (1)
164:2
rep (7)
17:7;57:21;68:20;
76:1,4;179:17;180:6
repeat (4)
119:3;126:15;
134:6;180:20
rephrase (2)
121:3;151:14
replacement (2)
135:9,14
replied (1)
14:16
report (53)
8:6;22:14,20;
24:14,20,22;29:18;
30:11,13,18,19;31:3,
4,10,13,14,18;34:3,4,
4;36:12;37:1,5;38:5;
40:7;41:1,14;46:23;
47:25;55:11,13,14;
59:3,12;62:17;
69:23;70:12;75:16;
87:19,22;101:15,17,
19;103:18;107:8;
110:8;114:19;115:6,
16;116:25;117:14;
119:13;136:18
reported (1)
51:19
reporter (10)
11:24;27:15;79:2,
9;91:13;98:6;105:3;
193:13,15,20
reporter's (2)
11:18;12:7
representation (4)
72:15;76:6;
104:25;132:7
representative (8)
12:10;48:9;55:17;
72:5,14,17;111:22;
185:24
represented (1)
72:4
representing (4)
88:16;109:4;
130:14,19
reprimanded (1)
13:24
reputation (1)
104:25
Request (13)
10:10;34:19;35:3;
36:8;42:11;43:14;
50:4,7,20;53:12;
111:19,20;152:22
requested (1)
72:25
requesting (2)
18:3;111:23
requests (1)
72:7
required (1)
104:20
requires (2)
76:5;111:11
research (1)
58:11
reserve (2)
26:14;143:25
reserved (1)
8:16
resolutions (1)
105:25
resource (1)
112:23
resources (5)
29:12;46:23;59:8;
110:3;128:13
respect (5)
53:23;54:1;55:12;
111:11;188:4
respectful (2)
106:4;109:22
respond (4)
35:13;36:16;51:4;
136:12
responded (5)
14:7;15:3;34:20,
23,25
response (20)
36:20;44:15;
49:19;50:14;51:6;
69:9;77:23;85:7;
87:12;121:21,21,24;
122:3,6,8;124:6;
147:9;167:12,16;
191:13
responses (2)
60:24;71:13
responsibilities (3)
44:19;136:21,23
responsibility (4)
57:11,12;101:23;
111:8
responsible (1)
164:8
responsive (1)
74:9
rest (1)
185:4
restate (3)
151:12,13;156:7
restaurant (22)
13:7,8,10,15,19;
16:5,8,20;18:21;
20:5;32:13;34:10;
49:6;56:19;63:6;
74:19;91:21;94:15,
20,20,22;130:12
restaurant/kitchen (1)
91:12
restaurants (1)
94:10
rested (1)
152:4
resulted (1)
53:14
resume (1)
61:21
retaliation (2)
16:22;31:8
review (2)
107:17;114:1
Reviewed (2)
29:17;118:22
revisited (1)
54:18
rid (1)
189:24
right (57)
15:14;23:18;26:2;
27:10;30:7,21;31:2;
38:9;57:19;58:16;
59:15;70:4,24;72:15,
20,20;78:7,24;82:11;
86:18;87:24;88:24;
89:4;94:10;98:1;
107:19;111:18;
113:11;123:8;134:2;
136:3,18,19;137:3,3;
142:10;147:23;
148:16;149:16;
155:4;159:12;
174:12,21;176:23;
177:9;178:2;179:10;
180:10;181:23;
182:4;184:25;185:9,
24;186:8;187:18;
189:17;190:18
rights (2)
49:23;111:17
rocks (1)
19:14
role (3)
101:1,9;110:15
romantic (3)
53:4,5;89:23
romantically (2)
52:13;183:16
room (4)
12:9;113:22;
159:18,20
rooms (1)
159:14
Rose (63)
13:21;16:2,4,24;
22:2,3,14;25:10,15;
27:4,11;28:13,21;
39:2;40:5,11,18,23;
46:18,25;62:8;66:5;
67:24;68:7;71:10;
77:19;78:4;96:3;
103:19;107:7;
108:12;110:19;
116:25;117:5;
134:25;148:4,5,18,
20;149:9,16;151:19;
170:24;171:23,25;
172:25;173:7;176:9;
179:16;180:6,9;
181:16;182:23;
183:15;184:2,19,24;
185:13,23;186:16,
25;188:13,17
Rose's (2)
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (18) reflecting - Rose's AR 486
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 490, Packet Page 735 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
33:11;185:25
routine (2)
19:20,22
rubbed (1)
171:19
rude (4)
139:3;164:14,15;
181:20
rudely (1)
49:17
rule (1)
151:1
rules (3)
33:18;47:17;106:1
ruling (3)
26:24;133:15;
144:1
run (5)
59:9,13;81:1;
110:8;176:14
runs (1)
84:17
Ryan (6)
48:8;57:21;148:7;
149:10,14;173:4
R-y-a-n (1)
48:8
S
sake (3)
49:1;145:11;
155:15
same (25)
16:17,18;26:17;
27:21;29:18;52:16;
62:11;64:17,18;
71:16;73:14;79:9;
98:10;103:8,14,15;
111:13;115:17;
116:22;125:13;
144:25;166:17;
175:22;177:11;
180:7
San (1)
99:20
Sanchez (83)
13:15,15,20;
14:10;15:15,15,20,
23;17:4;23:5;31:19,
19;32:20;35:19;
36:3,4,6,17,23;37:7;
41:5;42:1,6,16,24;
43:2,4,10,18;44:17;
45:4,5,7,8;51:3,11,
16,17,25;53:22;54:6,
8;55:6;62:21;63:22;
65:15,18,22;67:1,7,
21,25;69:17,17;
73:20;78:18,25;
79:22;93:15,22;
95:24;96:23;100:20,
25;101:6;102:3;
105:16;108:14;
114:24;115:6;117:8;
142:10;173:16;
174:2;175:1;180:13,
22;181:16,19,24;
182:24;183:16;
184:7
Sanchez's (10)
37:8;44:21;45:2;
63:18;64:8;67:6,14;
73:7,9;182:16
sandwich (30)
13:7,18;14:23;
15:22;20:5;35:25;
44:9;83:13,22;
87:16;89:11;92:9;
138:19;139:20;
140:25;142:13,14,
24,25;165:8,11;
170:16;171:14,16,
18;173:15,24;
174:12;177:12;
180:24
sarcastically (1)
14:16
sat (1)
147:19
satisfactory (2)
16:16;104:14
saved (1)
146:22
saw (15)
13:22;82:8;86:16;
127:16;139:24;
140:7,16;141:11;
142:10,22;165:14,
22;174:3;182:17;
183:18
saying (49)
34:20;35:16;
43:24;54:13;70:7,
22;77:21;101:24;
106:22;114:25;
139:3;149:5;155:9;
163:5,9;167:9;168:3,
4;169:1,1,14,16,18;
170:8,13,17;171:9;
172:14,23;173:6;
174:6,8,15;175:2,4,
17,19,22;178:12,18;
180:12,13;188:18;
189:5,9,12;190:12,
18;191:21
Schedule (1)
10:10
scheduled (3)
46:15,17;113:18
scolding (1)
168:12
scope (2)
57:10;105:14
screen (11)
29:24;31:14;
45:24;93:15;102:16;
105:18;113:10;
119:18;143:18;
145:9;161:11
scroll (8)
102:21;106:6;
107:21;108:7;
110:17;116:8;
145:19,24
scrolled (2)
144:6;145:15
se (1)
72:18
searching (1)
74:22
second (10)
29:23;31:1;62:16,
22;78:15;131:15;
132:21;150:22;
158:8;171:7
secondary (1)
28:6
seconds (7)
38:21,25;39:13;
40:16,16;166:8;
186:13
Section (22)
10:1,2,4;16:12,17,
19,23;17:11;31:6;
37:19;104:4;105:22,
23;106:12,16,24;
107:5,15,22,24;
132:23;148:18
sections (6)
103:24;105:9,10;
107:1,12;164:4
secure (1)
91:17
security (30)
13:16;17:3;32:20;
35:20;43:3,4,5;
45:12;51:14,18;
52:13,16,18;53:6,13,
16,21;69:18;77:3,9;
80:4,8,15,25;96:7,
12;173:10,13;
180:11,12
seeing (2)
30:10;183:22
seem (4)
85:14;125:22;
163:10;191:24
seemed (4)
44:25;45:8;50:22;
155:2
seems (3)
154:1;184:10;
192:23
segment (1)
64:22
segments (1)
48:21
selected (1)
101:12
selecting (1)
101:9
self-employed (1)
28:20
self-identifying (1)
21:19
send (5)
9:1;11:24;90:24;
93:5,9
senior (1)
99:15
senior-level (1)
167:14
sense (4)
45:9,17;53:9;54:5
sent (5)
9:6;11:22;37:7;
90:6;93:7
sentences (1)
127:23
separate (1)
110:20
September (5)
29:18;30:14,18;
99:17;133:7
sequence (2)
36:21;41:25
sergeant (1)
80:21
series (1)
53:3
serious (10)
74:4;109:3,7;
116:19;117:13;
120:15,19;121:25;
124:2;130:22
seriously (2)
67:16;141:15
seriousness (1)
111:6
serve (1)
54:11
served (1)
122:8
service (2)
20:25;105:1
services (10)
10:24;14:3;99:25;
100:2,19;103:21,22;
106:2;108:17;157:8
set (2)
38:3;164:4
Sets (1)
194:9
seven (6)
99:24;146:5,5;
164:3;172:16;187:5
several (1)
168:8
severe (3)
127:24;128:3,16
severely (1)
44:10
sex (1)
74:4
sexual (15)
31:7;43:25;44:4;
58:17;60:6;87:25;
109:20,20;110:5;
111:10;142:7;149:3;
171:21;177:18;
188:6
shall (1)
127:23
shape (4)
15:5;179:8,15;
180:5
shaped (1)
153:23
share (6)
29:24;45:24;
113:10;119:18;
143:18;161:11
shared (1)
79:11
sharing (7)
31:1;47:20;
117:24;119:24;
145:9;147:3;162:13
shirt (4)
88:18,18;89:4;
165:3
shop (3)
108:9;115:5,12
shops (1)
84:18
short (2)
17:19;137:6
shorten (1)
10:19
Shortly (1)
55:25
show (27)
13:3;20:9;27:20;
29:22;45:23;58:20;
79:9;90:1;98:10;
102:15;104:3;
106:12;109:12;
110:10;113:9;
115:23;127:18;
136:14;144:17;
145:10;161:19;
164:5;178:1,11,20,
21;179:1
showed (2)
60:12;178:13
showing (2)
86:16;152:14
shown (1)
112:8
shows (1)
173:10
sic (2)
42:9;91:22
side (3)
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (19) routine - side AR 487
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 491, Packet Page 736 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
83:8;171:19;
193:22
sides (1)
193:17
sidetracked (1)
93:6
sight (2)
182:8,8
sign (1)
102:22
signature (6)
57:23;92:10;
103:4,6;116:9,10
signed (1)
116:11
similar (1)
43:22
simply (3)
50:21;65:6;72:2
single (3)
19:24;127:20,23
sit (1)
174:22
sitting (1)
186:11
situation (5)
87:23;121:6;
126:23,23;191:13
situations (1)
139:17
six (4)
152:1;153:13;
172:16;187:5
Skelly (31)
17:14,15;19:2;
24:13;25:1,2,19;
89:18;111:17,19,21,
23,25;113:16;114:4,
13;115:8,14;117:21;
118:21;119:6;
123:11;132:9;
144:22;152:9,11;
177:3,6,22;178:5,10
skills (1)
134:20
slapped (2)
115:4,11
slapping (2)
15:4;92:2
sleep (6)
147:22;151:24,25;
184:20;185:3,4
sleep-deprived (2)
184:25;187:7
sleeping (1)
152:1
slight (1)
66:8
slightly (1)
64:20
slow (2)
28:4;91:13
slower (1)
105:6
slowly (3)
27:16;79:4;98:7
small (2)
113:10;174:24
snack (1)
12:15
sneaky (1)
57:15
solely (1)
159:8
solution (1)
152:18
somebody (3)
34:16;136:11;
171:5
somehow (3)
96:16;185:22;
186:6
someone (5)
84:20;88:15;96:7;
111:20;113:24
someone's (2)
71:25;72:16
Sometime (2)
90:25;152:10
sometimes (5)
33:16;70:25;
71:14;125:12;152:3
someway (1)
96:16
Somewhat (2)
73:23;157:20
somewhere (1)
142:16
soon (4)
20:10;97:14;
166:13;186:15
sorry (35)
24:16;37:13;
56:20;67:5;73:6,18;
85:1;91:15;105:4,
17;106:21;107:18;
109:13;112:4,11,14;
113:10;116:4;130:2,
4;133:5,25;137:19,
23;138:24;149:7;
151:4;153:14;155:7;
170:19;179:23;
183:12;187:12,24;
190:3
sort (3)
18:15;21:19;28:6
sounded (3)
41:3,11;85:5
sounds (6)
30:21;41:6;42:21;
79:5;87:8;98:8
source (1)
35:3
sources (1)
58:13
speak (9)
21:22;27:16;
72:14;76:1;79:4;
98:7;105:6;158:15;
159:11
speaking (2)
32:21;56:22
speaks (1)
162:15
special (1)
46:18
specific (8)
20:18,18;67:4;
71:14;73:25;126:17;
137:5;162:9
specifically (20)
65:22;73:1,20;
95:3;119:19;120:6,
8;124:24;125:9;
126:1;138:10;139:9;
148:17;153:9,18;
158:25;162:1,4,7;
191:20
specifics (3)
20:11;136:4;194:2
speculate (4)
77:20;183:4,7,8
speculating (2)
184:3,4
speculation (14)
68:3;71:7;76:24;
77:14,25;123:21;
125:2;175:11;
181:11,12;182:19;
183:19;184:12;
185:17
speculationwise (1)
185:2
spend (1)
159:9
spent (1)
70:8
split (1)
193:21
spoiling (1)
163:14
spoke (6)
63:22;92:8;105:9;
181:16;184:19;
185:24
spot (1)
193:14
stage (1)
11:13
stand (1)
86:20
Standard (5)
10:8;16:9,13;
103:22;106:2
standby (1)
78:13
standing (5)
86:19,21;174:18;
179:19;180:23
stands (1)
14:2
start (6)
39:13;77:22;
82:15;91:11,11;
113:6
started (16)
11:16;21:14;
47:21;84:16;86:3;
99:13;134:23;
138:16;142:2,19;
147:19,20;164:10;
172:17;182:11;
185:12
starting (3)
12:12;38:15,19
starts (1)
110:23
state (2)
106:3;157:18
stated (10)
10:14;66:16;67:7;
68:25;70:25;92:6;
121:6;125:15,21,24
statement (28)
12:22;13:1;18:10;
26:19;36:18;37:6;
39:18;40:17;41:3;
44:20,21,22;50:10;
55:11;61:4;68:18;
69:1,2,4,5,8,20;70:6,
14,18;71:5;74:25;
173:9
statements (11)
25:12;33:15;
37:24;44:24;45:22;
47:16;66:9;68:9,10;
69:3;72:22
States (3)
10:25;37:23;43:1
stationed (2)
80:10,11
stay (1)
84:22
stays (1)
140:17
step (1)
87:22
stepped (4)
15:15,16;87:7;
92:3
stern (1)
92:1
stick (1)
137:21
still (9)
26:20;82:24;
143:14;154:20;
155:6;156:14;179:9;
188:7;189:23
stipulate (1)
8:10
stipulated (5)
8:4;9:11;11:7,8;
134:18
stipulation (6)
10:12,21;11:2,4,
11;158:1
stipulations (2)
8:22;10:19
stood (1)
182:13
stop (9)
31:1;47:20;
117:24;147:3;
154:17;162:13;
176:22,22;190:7
stopped (4)
142:16;173:20;
181:5;182:5
stopping (1)
38:24
storage (1)
161:3
store (4)
84:3,17;85:13;
164:3
stores (2)
94:18;173:25
stories (1)
183:2
storm (1)
167:12
storming (1)
165:13
stormy (2)
49:9;139:14
straight (2)
137:9;161:4
straight-up (1)
89:14
street (2)
135:5,8
streets (1)
99:25
stress (2)
147:22;184:20
Stressed (2)
137:13;184:25
strike (6)
77:13,16;146:9,
23;153:15;185:20
strip (1)
23:18
strong (1)
45:16
strongly (1)
69:16
struck (1)
57:1
struggling (1)
151:24
study (1)
151:25
stuff (5)
96:10;135:23;
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (20) sides - stuff AR 488
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 492, Packet Page 737 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
168:10;188:23;
190:14
Subdivision (4)
16:12,16,18;17:12
subject (10)
25:18;26:24;
44:24;47:18;60:23;
65:10;72:7,19;
109:11;145:2
subjective (1)
75:2
subjects (2)
60:17;71:11
submit (3)
8:21;192:22;193:2
submitted (3)
23:10;41:14;119:7
subordinate (3)
83:6,11;89:13
subordinates (1)
82:9
subs (1)
135:25
subscribed (1)
60:13
subscribing (1)
61:10
Subsection (1)
107:10
substance (1)
98:23
substantiate (1)
75:1
substantiated (2)
16:6;41:15
Subway (53)
13:7;16:5,7,20;
18:21;19:5;20:5;
32:13,18;34:10;43:6,
9;45:10;49:4,6,11;
53:18;60:25;63:8;
70:2,23;73:11;
74:19;82:5,11,17,23;
83:10,21;88:18;
89:19;91:7,8,10;
94:2,4,9,14,19;96:4,
11,15;100:23;108:9;
130:12;139:11,24;
140:3;163:3;165:7;
171:11;172:21;
181:22
Subway's (1)
96:6
suck (51)
15:4,11;17:8,16;
19:6,13;35:5;36:22;
41:25;43:25;50:25;
54:14;57:4;58:2;
61:4;69:24;70:7;
71:6;77:22;86:14;
87:3;92:2;101:21,
25;105:20;114:25;
115:2,11;130:16;
142:5,5;143:6,8,8;
170:10,10,15,18,21,
22,23;171:1,2;
172:21;175:20;
176:10,13,15;
187:16;188:2;
191:22
sudden (1)
186:8
suddenly (1)
186:1
sufficient (2)
41:7;127:21
sufficiently (1)
75:1
suggested (3)
73:3;74:23;180:6
suggestion (1)
58:9
summary (3)
49:5;63:3;139:12
super (2)
88:13;164:16
superintendent (2)
100:19;108:17
supervise (1)
80:7
supervised (1)
43:3
supervising (2)
80:15,24
Supervisor (17)
11:4;15:25;37:9,
10;54:7;80:6;87:20,
22;90:9,11,14,16,21;
92:20;93:3;150:11;
160:19
supervisors (1)
109:21
supporting (2)
25:14,15
supposed (7)
52:2,6;120:10;
121:19;160:15;
163:23,24
Sure (34)
24:20;28:6;33:8;
41:5;51:13;54:20,
23;68:14;77:3,24;
79:15;81:1;82:9;
86:17,19,21;90:3,18;
91:6;93:5;97:11;
121:20;125:5;
138:15;142:21;
154:5;155:25;157:9;
159:2;168:25;
180:11;182:12;
185:1;191:17
surmount (1)
20:19
surrounding (1)
45:13
suspected (1)
53:21
suspension (1)
102:9
sustain (4)
122:13;153:25;
169:11;182:20
Sustained (3)
68:4;71:8;181:13
sustaining (1)
175:12
sworn (4)
27:11;78:25;98:2;
134:3
swung (6)
15:7,7,8,9;114:19;
119:14
T
table-setting (1)
21:21
talk (9)
58:16;98:24;
107:4;143:10;
163:16;166:16;
177:20;180:10;
184:18
talked (3)
91:16;129:13,15
talking (16)
56:20;87:9;92:5;
109:19;127:20;
142:19;149:11;
161:12;163:8;
175:23;182:10;
184:21;186:10;
188:10,21,21
tattoos (3)
69:14;188:17,23
taunt (1)
57:23
technical (2)
48:18;68:22
technique (1)
75:15
telling (14)
19:5;41:25;44:2;
73:24;129:21;
137:14;148:18;
155:1;163:6;174:9;
177:11;182:7;
183:15;184:8
tend (1)
94:16
term (1)
86:15
terminate (4)
13:4;114:14;
117:2;152:20
terminated (4)
110:16;144:21;
150:12;190:21
terminating (1)
128:1
Termination (33)
9:24;11:3,5;18:2;
21:5;23:20,22;102:7,
8;104:8;108:3;
111:3,4,16;112:18;
115:21,22;116:3,4,
16,22;117:19;
119:20,22;122:6,18;
123:17;124:4,9;
126:14,25;127:21;
153:6
terms (6)
33:19;40:25;50:3;
65:4;75:24;108:24
terse (1)
52:15
tested (1)
178:2
testified (7)
27:14;44:23;
67:12;69:7;122:25;
123:2;175:1
testify (4)
25:24;33:23;
132:19;174:2
testimonies (3)
64:2;65:15;158:23
testimony (21)
40:11;41:19;
61:17;63:18,19;
67:4;78:6;95:3;
96:25;98:24;118:24;
119:11;120:21,25;
126:4;131:11;
133:17;155:22;
169:5;170:2,5
tests (1)
178:22
texted (1)
97:5
thanking (1)
148:7
Thanks (2)
93:22;96:18
theories (4)
52:1,21,23;53:4
theory (8)
51:22,24;52:11,
12;53:23;54:1;
181:15,17
therefore (1)
64:19
thinking (4)
54:17;147:19;
152:3;186:11
third (2)
156:23;180:21
thorough (1)
25:15
though (6)
25:17;101:24;
108:25;150:15;
154:25;167:19
thought (16)
30:21;45:2;51:17;
77:3;101:20;140:7;
141:1,11;142:20;
147:17;165:19,23;
178:13,22,24;182:23
thoughts (5)
71:21,25;101:18;
129:7;151:20
thousand (1)
135:17
three (18)
39:13,13;40:14,15,
15;48:17,21,25;
80:17;81:17;92:21,
22;95:13;137:7;
140:17;144:22;
184:15;189:22
threw (1)
15:6
throughout (2)
20:8;135:12
thrust (1)
86:22
Thursday (2)
46:19,24
timed (1)
166:7
timeline (1)
53:9
times (12)
20:4;95:14;106:5;
123:25;140:17;
141:4;152:2;165:25;
166:1;168:8;184:15;
189:22
timing (1)
76:8
title (1)
80:5
today (21)
18:14,19;25:3;
26:7;29:20;78:20;
88:19;96:24;100:8;
120:21;131:10;
167:9;170:17;
171:10,10,13;174:2;
175:1;190:9;192:1;
193:16
together (9)
28:3;82:10;
103:19;179:15;
180:4;194:5,6,7,8
told (68)
13:20,23;33:12;
34:12,21;35:4,12,19;
43:15;44:13,16;
49:5;51:2,6;54:20;
56:14;75:22;77:2;
85:8;101:6;139:2;
144:13,14;148:12;
150:25;152:7;153:2,
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (21) Subdivision - told AR 489
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 493, Packet Page 738 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
2;166:11,19,23,25;
167:10;171:2,16,23,
25;172:1,2,3,4,11,13,
14;173:3,5;176:10;
177:10,25;178:4,8;
179:1,3;180:9,21;
181:4;184:2,4,4;
185:10,13;186:16,
19,25;187:8;188:13,
17,19
tolerance (2)
108:18;122:1
Tom (2)
103:2;112:25
tone (4)
39:23;57:1,1;84:7
took (26)
18:23;32:9;55:23;
60:15;65:16;76:1,
20;82:12;111:10;
113:17;124:21;
125:17;149:7,9,11,
25;150:4;171:15;
173:1;176:8,9;
180:25;185:7,23;
186:7,22
tools (1)
128:23
top (3)
64:23;110:23;
112:15
topic (2)
65:2;162:3
topical (1)
62:11
topics (1)
153:8
tops (1)
94:25
total (1)
48:23
totally (3)
61:3,5;187:19
touch (1)
17:20
touched (2)
20:17;56:9
touching (2)
65:23;114:17
towards (34)
15:5,9;17:9,9,17;
35:6;56:6;65:24,25;
66:17,18;68:1;89:20,
22;92:2;101:20;
105:16;114:11,17;
141:2;142:7;149:3;
169:22;170:9,24;
171:13;176:11,13,
17;177:18;188:1,5,6;
189:3
track (2)
44:25;96:16
traffic (1)
99:16
train (1)
60:23
training (19)
19:20,22;23:2;
58:17;59:6;60:14,16,
18;103:20;109:17,
21;111:9;120:17,17;
123:25;128:11,14,
14,18
trainings (10)
59:21;60:6,11;
109:19,24;110:6;
125:16,17,21,25
transcribe (1)
113:23
transcribed (3)
38:9;113:7,16
TRANSCRIPT (11)
7:1;24:14;25:1;
39:7,19;40:14,15;
114:4;193:1,11,13
Transit (1)
99:20
treatment (5)
16:11;105:13;
129:24;130:6,11
tried (2)
115:3;152:16
trouble (23)
15:18;36:10,15;
52:10;53:11,13;
54:4;84:22,24;85:3,
6;86:9,13;87:7;
91:23,25;92:4;
152:1;163:22;168:6,
14;169:3,17
truck (5)
45:12;52:17;
140:6;167:5;184:14
true (16)
67:19;89:20,21,
24;108:18;110:4;
114:3;132:7;148:13;
166:3,25;175:21;
176:11;177:6,23;
188:14
trust (2)
65:4;157:8
trustworthiness (1)
130:24
truth (16)
33:15,20;40:10;
147:15;148:12;
149:15;150:5;152:7;
155:1;173:7;174:9;
185:10;186:15,19,
20;191:23
truthful (11)
41:17;45:8,21;
51:11,12;55:2;
60:25;64:17;102:2;
107:6;115:17
truthfully (3)
47:13,22;110:18
truth-tellers (1)
64:20
try (8)
52:8;66:6;75:13;
92:25;145:12;
155:18;166:16;
187:15
trying (22)
8:20;33:24;36:10;
58:10;62:11;87:6;
92:19,25;105:17;
121:12;149:1,4,8;
163:6,12,13;164:5;
167:19;168:14;
176:19;188:5;
189:13
tunnel (1)
135:13
turn (6)
22:3;49:22;
133:23;142:22;
173:23;174:1
turned (5)
141:12;171:17,20;
181:1,2
turning (1)
100:7
turns (1)
66:5
two (42)
12:14;17:21;18:1;
20:2;23:24;41:6;
46:22;51:13;52:21;
54:5,9;60:9,11;66:8;
68:21;77:3,9;78:12;
88:7;89:5;127:23;
128:5;130:13;137:6,
6,8,16,16;139:24;
141:3;156:22;
159:13;165:15,24;
166:1;170:12;
175:18,21;185:3;
187:24;189:22;
193:16
two-hour (1)
16:25
type (5)
58:10;108:19;
109:19;130:10;
131:1
types (1)
128:23
typically (3)
33:19;136:8;
174:20
U
ultimately (16)
34:3;41:15,16;
46:6;54:15;57:3;
61:8;64:10;67:21;
70:1,11,14,21;74:24;
75:14;158:5
unable (1)
17:20
uncalled (1)
187:19
under (12)
16:11,16,18;80:4;
84:19;107:10,12;
127:22;128:20,21;
175:1,7
underground (1)
135:8
underlying (1)
33:20
undershirt (1)
88:25
understands (1)
19:16
understood (1)
57:11
unhesitatingly (1)
74:1
uniform (9)
14:13;88:7,16,18,
20;104:18;130:14;
164:23,25
Union (29)
7:23,24;9:19;
11:23;17:6;19:11;
22:11;48:9,12;
55:17;57:21;68:20,
21;76:1,6;111:22;
133:19;144:6;145:8;
157:15;158:3;
159:18;161:8,25;
179:17;180:6;
185:24;192:15;
193:24
Union's (6)
19:22;131:19;
143:17;144:24;
145:16;156:10
United (4)
9:19;10:25;43:1;
48:10
unless (6)
11:14;12:12;
26:14;34:22;127:24;
174:18
unprofessional (6)
44:6;88:14,14;
104:15;127:10;
187:20
unrelated (1)
45:10
unsatisfactory (2)
104:16,22
untrue (1)
51:21
untruthful (5)
16:25;17:10;
54:21;61:3,5
untruthfulness (1)
47:15
unusual (1)
151:6
up (59)
10:19;14:18;15:6,
7,8,10;26:25;29:23;
30:7;35:5;52:20;
54:17;71:12;76:20;
77:22;82:12,13;
83:6;85:10;89:13;
90:2;91:8,19;
100:25;101:2;
102:16;106:8;
114:20;118:20;
119:14,19;129:3;
136:14;137:1;
139:15,23;140:6,22;
141:6,20;142:25;
143:16,18;144:5;
149:25;150:12;
152:1;158:16;
159:13;161:2;
165:10,14;167:4;
168:6,7,14;179:19;
183:1;194:9
upheld (1)
18:2
uphold (3)
18:4;115:20,22
upon (2)
24:7;33:14
upset (2)
166:20,23
upwards (1)
43:16
usable (1)
26:1
use (9)
13:23;14:15;26:2;
84:8,10;95:18;
118:15;128:24;
159:15
used (9)
26:20,25;33:5;
57:24;66:13;74:21;
75:14;86:25;129:24
using (1)
91:10
usual (2)
32:17;94:17
usually (5)
118:18;128:13;
136:15;167:5;
182:14
utilities (1)
100:1
utilize (1)
19:23
utilized (1)
19:10
utilizes (1)
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (22) tolerance - utilizes AR 490
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 494, Packet Page 739 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
124:5
V
vague (13)
66:3;68:12;
118:25;120:12;
121:8,8;122:11,14,
20;124:15;147:11;
191:15,18
value (1)
23:19
variety (1)
53:1
various (3)
20:24;109:10;
145:12
vehicle (2)
49:12;182:14
vehicles (1)
142:23
veracity (1)
65:5
verbal (5)
27:17;104:23;
105:19;108:9;111:7
verbally (1)
111:16
version (3)
75:10,22;171:23
versus (3)
68:2;73:8;76:18
via (6)
11:12;13:9;15:25;
42:17;46:19;93:9
video (5)
22:4;113:4;
133:23;164:3,4
videoconference (1)
46:20
videos (1)
58:14
view (11)
44:3,10;45:6;
49:17;67:11,22;
70:12;72:11,14;
75:19;107:9
vignette (1)
64:22
violate (3)
47:16;107:4;109:1
violated (16)
16:8,21;19:3;
104:11;105:11,23;
106:17,23,24;107:2,
15;108:3,6,9;190:9,
11 violating (1)
129:14
violation (5)
17:10;105:17,24;
109:9;192:3
violations (1)
111:5
viral (1)
58:5
visual (1)
108:24
visually (1)
47:2
voice (3)
37:25;84:8;92:1
voices (2)
39:2,4
voltage (2)
135:4,22
V-shaped (1)
65:22
W
wait (9)
27:19;79:7;91:13,
13;92:17,24;98:9;
134:7;172:9
Waking (1)
152:1
walk (10)
86:12;91:20;
139:21;141:8,14,23;
163:11;165:11;
172:21;181:4
walked (19)
89:13;141:2,5;
142:9;143:9;164:13;
166:9,13;167:22;
168:5;170:15;
171:17;173:14,16;
174:11,13;180:21;
182:4,11
walking (15)
14:20,22;50:15;
142:2,15,15,22;
143:1;164:10;
165:24;173:16,17;
181:1,2;188:3
wants (1)
26:15
warmer (1)
83:7
way (30)
17:20;20:19;36:4;
43:23;44:12,15;
52:14;59:2;63:10;
73:13;74:21;87:13;
88:5;111:13;122:16;
140:7;143:13;
144:16;149:7;
154:10;163:17;
178:22;180:7;188:4,
6,19;189:4,12,14,21
ways (2)
60:10;114:16
wear (1)
88:17
wearing (7)
88:7,19,20;89:1,4;
104:18;165:5
website (1)
156:16
WEDNESDAY (1)
7:2
week (4)
81:17;92:22,23;
95:14
weeks (2)
144:22;193:16
weight (1)
158:22
weren't (6)
27:7;89:19;
163:23,23;182:8,8
wet (6)
141:25;167:5,22,
25;168:3;169:15
what's (5)
112:8;132:20;
136:17,17;169:25
Whenever (4)
28:8;79:16;81:16;
94:22
whereas (1)
73:21
Whereupon (4)
27:11;78:25;98:2;
134:3
whole (10)
80:16;81:14;
120:9;135:1;149:12;
165:25;173:12;
174:3,23;190:16
who's (4)
7:16;13:15;17:14;
41:24
whose (1)
103:4
wide (2)
140:3;168:1
Wikipedia (1)
58:12
wildly (1)
75:22
willful (2)
105:24;107:9
willing (3)
153:3;155:2,2
windy (2)
139:15;165:13
wish (2)
187:20;189:5
withhold (1)
133:15
withholding (1)
148:19
within (3)
105:13;130:22;
166:6
without (11)
18:13;36:12;
53:14;91:22;102:22;
114:17;129:21;
153:4;186:12;
189:19;190:22
witness (83)
21:25;22:5;27:5;
37:4;38:18;40:5;
41:4;42:15,22;
53:12;65:10,11;
66:7;68:14;71:21;
72:20;77:1;78:8,11,
21;79:6,15;91:15;
97:2,4,10,20,23;
98:15;112:6,10,14;
114:25;118:24;
119:3;120:14;121:2,
10;123:23;124:9,17;
125:4;126:6;129:5;
131:13,18;133:22;
137:19,23;138:3,6;
146:18;147:15;
148:23;150:19,23;
151:4,10,23;154:16;
155:7,11,25;158:13,
16;160:14;161:1;
169:6,23;170:5;
174:16;176:4,24;
179:23;180:1;183:5,
10,12;187:12;190:3;
191:17;192:13,14
witnessed (5)
15:16;35:18;
127:10;154:19;
164:3
witnesses (17)
17:21;18:1;20:16;
21:14;25:2,18;41:6;
61:15;70:25;71:11,
17;117:6;134:6;
175:18;192:16,17,19
witnessing (1)
174:6
witness's (1)
119:10
woman (2)
15:13;34:15
women (1)
74:20
word (3)
73:17,20;74:23
words (20)
17:7,16;27:18;
54:14;55:24;61:9;
64:5;66:13;67:10;
70:2,22;74:22;75:5;
79:5;84:10;86:23,
25;98:8;115:18;
130:15
work (68)
14:15,17,21;
16:15;19:7;20:22;
26:12;34:22;35:1;
49:20;57:10,12;
71:10;80:4;81:9,17,
17,20;82:23;84:11,
20;85:20;86:8;88:2,
10;91:22;92:21;
94:25;99:18;100:14;
104:14,16,22;
128:13;135:3;136:7,
8,13,21;137:8,17;
138:1;140:10;
141:17,18;146:3;
149:23;156:25;
157:1,3,4,5;159:7;
160:7;162:5,8;
163:9;165:12;
166:24,25;167:2,4,
10,11,13;181:21;
193:21;194:7
worked (13)
13:17;18:12;28:3;
80:12;99:11,18;
118:11;136:1;
138:17;139:8;
163:20;172:18;
178:15
worker (1)
94:4
workers (1)
183:25
working (23)
13:11;14:13;26:7;
32:17,20;52:1;
74:20;84:13;94:4,7;
95:1;100:14;104:17;
128:25;129:3;
135:24;136:16;
138:16;141:25;
154:20;167:6,7;
194:5
workplace (5)
63:8;88:1;109:22;
130:18,20
works (19)
16:10,14;17:14;
29:6;42:25;52:4;
57:8;97:6;99:5,10,
16,23,25;100:5;
103:3;112:24;
142:11;164:11;
168:24
World (1)
57:22
worried (1)
140:16
worry (1)
87:18
worrying (1)
94:12
worse (2)
154:20;189:21
worst (1)
56:25
worth (1)
137:17
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (23) vague - worth AR 491
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 495, Packet Page 740 LIUNA LOCAL 792 and

CITY OF MONTEREY

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
April 24, 2024
wow (1)
164:14
wrapping (1)
54:17
wrestler (1)
57:23
wrestlers (2)
57:24;180:7
Wrestling (1)
57:22
write (5)
55:10;75:16;
102:19;137:1;178:3
writing (3)
55:13,14,15
written (2)
168:7;192:22
wrong (8)
7:7;66:6;85:24;
109:14;136:17;
153:1;190:19;192:6
wrote (3)
92:11;109:14;
179:5
WWE (1)
180:8
WWF (3)
57:23,24;58:11
Y
year (9)
29:18;134:25;
144:10;145:21;
147:22;151:24;
152:2;160:16;
181:20
years (24)
15:13;18:13;
19:21;20:2;60:23;
64:15;80:14,18;
89:5;135:2,7,17;
137:6,9,11,16;
139:22;141:10;
144:9;157:19;
163:12;174:24;
178:16;181:21
yesterday (1)
83:16
young (1)
82:15
younger (1)
15:13
Z
zero (2)
108:18;122:1
zipper (1)
89:3
Zoom (5)
46:5,20;47:3;
48:19;68:19
1 1 (8)
9:14;10:21;22:13,
16;30:8;47:11;
59:22;110:23
1:00 (1)
12:12
1:00ish (1)
89:9
1:15 (1)
12:12
1:30 (1)
12:16
10 (6)
9:5,11;10:12;
40:16;139:20;
164:21
10:00 (1)
46:19
10:45 (1)
61:24
100 (8)
51:13;77:2,8;
88:14;186:12;
187:19;192:5,5
10th (1)
42:20
11 (1)
157:19
11:00 (1)
89:9
11:20 (1)
173:10
1-10 (1)
9:13
12 (2)
39:12,15
13 (1)
102:24
13th (3)
9:22,24;30:14
14 (2)
16:12;17:11
15 (2)
40:16;59:16
15-minute (1)
61:21
15th (4)
39:9;59:14;60:8;
110:7
19 (1)
15:13
1990s (2)
57:24;58:3
19th (2)
37:7;91:1
2 2 (12)
9:16;10:23;22:25;
23:13,14;46:19;
58:21;59:22;109:13,
15;110:24;173:10
2:15 (1)
156:2
20 (11)
18:13;54:16;
64:15;69:21;137:11;
139:22;141:10;
150:2;163:12;166:8;
172:12
2000 (4)
10:22;99:3,13;
134:24
2003 (2)
99:14;135:2
2004 (1)
28:23
2005 (3)
145:22;156:18,19
2009 (5)
60:2,7,19;110:7;
135:2
2013 (3)
133:7;157:18;
161:9
2016 (1)
10:8
2017 (3)
99:15,15;160:15
2022 (16)
13:6;18:22;32:14;
43:9;49:4;60:2;63:1;
70:23;73:11;82:5;
92:15;99:17;138:11;
139:10;147:8;
164:19
2023 (28)
9:22,24;10:11;
11:3;16:1;17:1;29:3,
6,11;30:11,14;32:8;
37:14;39:9;42:20;
46:8,19,24;59:14,16;
60:7;91:2;92:12;
100:18;101:16;
102:24;110:7;
116:13
2024 (1)
7:2
20-second (1)
166:6
21 (2)
10:11;46:8
22 (2)
37:6;43:6
23 (3)
60:22;174:24;
178:16
24 (2)
7:2;69:10
25 (4)
16:12,23;17:11;
123:24
25-14.02 (4)
10:1;16:12;17:12;
104:4
25-14.06 (1)
10:3
25-3.03 (3)
10:5;16:23;107:25
2-7-23 (1)
24:21
2nd (1)
46:24
3 3 (8)
9:21;11:2;16:23;
23:4,13,14;59:22;
90:23
3:12 (1)
194:16
30 (7)
32:9;38:21;94:24;
174:21;193:1,5,10
31 (2)
29:11;38:25
348 (1)
179:18
349 (1)
143:12
4 4 (9)
9:23;11:4;23:25;
24:2;59:22;102:16;
115:23;119:20;
127:22
45 (3)
113:19;149:25;
150:2
5 5 (12)
9:25;16:14;26:14,
24;27:2;31:10;
59:22;104:4;106:11,
14,22;113:15
50 (4)
48:23;68:19;
172:17;187:6
55 (2)
149:21;172:19
6 6 (11)
10:2;16:14;26:14,
24;27:2;31:10;
48:24;59:22;106:11;
162:1,3
660 (1)
49:7
6th (1)
17:1
7 7 (7)
10:4;26:14,24;
27:2;39:6;59:22;
107:21
70-year-old (1)
146:19
780 (2)
37:19;38:4
792 (2)
9:20;48:12
7th (1)
116:12
8 8 (5)
10:7;24:21,24;
101:16;106:7
80 (2)
30:22;61:10
8th (1)
11:3
9 9 (3)
10:9;45:24;110:11
9:12 (1)
7:2
9:45 (1)
46:24
90 (2)
30:20,23
Min-U-Script® Barkley Court Reporters (24) wow - 90
AR 492
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 496, Packet Page 741

IN THE PROCEEDINGS BEFORE

ANDREA DOOLEY, ARBITRATOR
LIUNA LOCAL 792,
Union,
and

CITY OF MONTEREY
Employer,
(Termination of Jerod Balthrop)
Before Arbitrator Andrea Dooley
Hearing Date: April 24, 2024

POST-HEARING BRIEF OF CITY OF MONTEREY

ARCELIA HURTADO
[email protected]

SLOAN SAKAI YEUNG & WONG LLP
2200 Powell Street, Suite 450
Emeryville, California 94608
Telephone: (510) 995-5800
Facsimile: (415) 678-3838
Attorneys for Employer

CITY OF MONTEREY
AR 493
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 497, Packet Page 742 Page(s)
I. INTRODUCTION ...............................................................................................................1 II. STATEMENT OF THE ISSUES.........................................................................................2 III. RELEVANT PROVISIONS OF THE MEMORANDUM OF
UNDERSTANDING ...........................................................................................................2 IV. RELEVANT PROVISIONS OF THE MONTEREY CITY CODE AND
POLICIES ............................................................................................................................2 V. RELEVANT PROVISIONS OF THE CITY OF MONTEREY GENERAL
SERVICES DIVISION: STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES .............................5 VI. STATEMENT OF FACTS ..................................................................................................5 A. The Public Works Department and Balthrop’s Employment History .....................5 B. The City’s Investigation of a Complaint Against Mr. Balthrop ..............................6

1. Lieutenant Jesus Sanchez Provided A Credible, Unbiased, and Corroborated Account of the Subway Incident ...........................................7

2. Balthrop’s Repeated Lies and False Denials During his Investigation Interview ................................................................................8 C. Discipline and Skelly Hearing ...............................................................................12 D. Balthrop’s Continued Dishonesty During the Arbitration Hearing .......................14 VII. ARGUMENT .....................................................................................................................16 A. The Burden of Proof is Preponderance of the Evidence ........................................16 B. The City has Proven by More Than a Preponderance of the Evidence That Balthrop’s Termination was Supported by Just Cause ..........................................18

1. The City Has Presented Substantial Evidence that Balthrop Made a Lewd Comment and Gesture in the Workplace and Lied About it to the Investigator ......................................................................................19

2. The City’s Determination that Termination was Appropriate was Reasonably Related to the Seriousness of Balthrop’s Misconduct and Should Not Be Disturbed ....................................................................21 C. Balthrop Has Not Shown Any Grounds for Overturning His Termination ...........24

1. It Does Not Matter Whether the Lewd Comment and Gesture Occurred During a Work Break .................................................................24

2. The Conduct Was Egregious .....................................................................24 AR 494
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 498, Packet Page 743

3. Balthrop Lied to the Investigator ...............................................................24

4. Termination Was Justified .........................................................................25 VIII. CONCLUSION ..................................................................................................................25 AR 495
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 499, Packet Page 744 Page(s)
California Cases
Cotran v. Rollins Hudig Hallt Int.
(1998) 17 Cal.4th 93 ......................................................................................................... 18, 19 King v. United Parcel Service, Inc.
(2007) 152 Cal.App.4th 426 ................................................................................................... 18 Silva v. Lucky Stores, Inc.
(1998) 65 Cal.App.4th 256 ..................................................................................................... 18 Skelly v. State Personnel Board
(1975) 15 Cal.3d 194 .............................................................................................................. 17 Arbitration Decisions
Bemis Co.,
127 LA 499 (Ross, 2010) ........................................................................................................ 17 BHP Petroleum/Gasco, Inc.,
102 BNA LA 321, 326-327 (Najita, 1994) ............................................................................. 20 Chemical Solvents, Inc.,
129 BNA LA 888, 894-895 (Ruben, 2011) ............................................................................ 20 Cincinnati State Technical & Community College,
122 LA 1473, 1475 (Murphy, 2006) ....................................................................................... 17 City of Oakland,
128 LA 231 (Landau, 2010).................................................................................................... 17 Gold Kist, Inc.,
62 BNA LA 139, 145 (Rutherford, 1974)............................................................................... 21 Rittman Nursing & Rehab. Ctr.,
113 LA 284 (Kelman, 1999) ................................................................................................... 17 Stockham Pipe Fitting Company,
1 LA 160, 162 (McCoy, 1945)................................................................................................ 21 Thatcher & Sons, Inc.,
76 BNA LA 1278, 1280 (Nutt, 1981) ..................................................................................... 20 Wholesale Produce Supply Co.,
101 LA 1101 (Bognanno, 1993) ............................................................................................. 17 AR 496
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 500, Packet Page 745 Other Authorities
Brand & Biren, DISCIPLINE & DISCHARGE IN ARBITRATION
(3rd ed. 2015) ....................................................................................................... 18, 19, 20, 22 Elkouri & Elkouri, HOW ARBITRATION WORKS,
(Bloomberg BNA, 7th Edition 2012)................................................................................ 16, 17 AR 497
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 501, Packet Page 746 I. INTRODUCTION
Jerod Balthrop was terminated because he made a lewd comment and gesture to two members of the public and proceeded to lie about doing so through an investigation, a Skelly hearing, and an arbitration hearing. He even went so far as to proffer fabricated excuses such as a grand conspiracy against him by people who do not know him, and medical maladies that should excuse his behavior during these proceedings. Balthrop’s conduct throughout these proceedings warrant upholding the termination. Balthrop, a former employee with the City of Monterey (the “City”) Public Works Department, was found by an independent attorney investigator, Joe Rose from Rose Law APC, to have made a sexually explicit comment and lewd gesture to a member of the public while on work time in the presence of one other member of the public. During the investigation, Balthrop initially denied the entire incident. Rose confronted Balthrop with the statements of the two unbiased percipient witnesses who were present during this incident. Despite this evidence, Balthrop continued to deny it. The City issued its discipline after finding the two percipient witnesses more credible than Balthrop’s denials. Balthrop received a Notice of Termination because he was dishonest and due to the egregiousness of his conduct. At the Skelly hearing, Balthrop expressed remorse, but still failed to actually admit to any wrongdoing. The Skelly Officer determined that the City could not continue to employ someone who demonstrated dishonesty, particularly when that employee is stationed at a secure military facility, the Presidio of Monterey, and must, therefore, be trustworthy. Accordingly, the Skelly Officer upheld Balthrop’s termination.

Balthrop appealed and requested an advisory fact-finding hearing pursuant to the General Employees of Monterey (“GEM”) Memorandum of Understanding (“MOU”), Section 49, which was eventually held before Arbitrator Dooley on April 24, 2024. (JX 2, p. 30; JX 10.) At this hearing, Balthrop denied, deflected, and refused to accept responsibility or be accountable for his actions. Despite being questioned under oath, he perpetuated his lies, and invented a number of new lies to justify his conduct. Accordingly, it is clear that the City issued the appropriate discipline as Balthrop cannot be trusted, therefore his termination was more than warranted.

AR 498
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 502, Packet Page 747 II. STATEMENT OF THE ISSUES
The parties stipulated to a Statement of the Issues as follows:

1. Is there just cause for the discipline imposed on Mr. Balthrop? III. RELEVANT PROVISIONS OF THE MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING The City of Monterey and GEM were parties to an MOU that was in effect at all relevant times up to and through Balthrop’s misconduct and subsequent termination. (Joint Exhibit (“JX”) 2). Relevant sections of the MOU include the following:

SECTION 49 ALTERNATE DISPUTE RESOLUTION PROCEDURE
The City and GEM agree to an alternate dispute resolution procedure (grievance and discipline appeals) where GEM may opt for non-binding advisory fact-finding at the appeal step between Department Head and City Manager. The cost of the fact-finder to be paid by GEM. The City Manager will have discretion to implement any or no part of the fact-finder’s recommendation.
(JX 2, p. 30.)
IV. RELEVANT PROVISIONS OF THE MONTEREY CITY CODE AND POLICIES In addition to the terms contained in the MOU, City employees are also subject to personnel policies and provisions contained in the Monterey City Code, Chapter 25 – Personnel/Human Resources. Relevant sections from that Chapter include the following:

ARTICLE 3 – POLICIES GOVERNING EMPLOYMENT AND

WORKING CONDITIONS
SECTION 25 – 3.03 HARASSMENT / DISCRIMINATION /

RETALIATION / ABUSIVE CONDUCT / BULLYING
POLICY
a. Policy. The City of Monterey is committed to providing a work environment that is free of discrimination, harassment, abusive conduct/bullying, and retaliation and will take all reasonable steps to prevent discrimination, harassment, abusive conduct/bullying and retaliation from occurring. This rule describes the City regulations designed to achieve this goal.

The City will not tolerate or condone discrimination, harassment, bullying/abusive conduct or retaliation prohibited by law, or as defined by this policy, of employees, applicants, unpaid interns, and volunteers, by any persons, including supervisors, coworkers, and third parties. This policy prohibits retaliation against individuals who report a violation of this policy or who assist in the City’s investigation of a complaint made under this policy.

AR 499
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 503, Packet Page 748 The City will take disciplinary action, up to and including termination, against an employee who violates this policy.
…
c. Prohibited Conduct
…

4. Abusive Conduct/Bullying. In addition to prohibited harassment and discrimination based on protected class status, the City is committed to protecting its employees from abusive conduct/bullying. Abusive conduct/bullying means, as defined in Government Code Section 12950.1, as may be amended from time to time “…conduct of an employer or employee in the workplace, with malice, that a reasonable person would find hostile, offensive, and unrelated to an employer’s legitimate business interests. Abusive conduct may include repeated infliction of verbal abuse, such as the use of derogatory remarks, insults, and epithets, verbal or physical conduct that a reasonable person would find threatening, intimidating, or humiliating, or the gratuitous sabotage or undermining of a person’s work performance. A single act shall not constitute abusive conduct, unless especially severe and egregious.” Abusive conduct/bullying may occur in, but is not limited to, the following forms:
a. Verbal behavior, which may include written or email communications, ridiculing or maligning a person or his/her family; persistent name calling which is hurtful, insulting, or humiliating; using a person as the target of jokes; abusive and offensive remarks;
b. Physical behavior, such as pushing, shoving, kicking, poking, tripping, assaulting, or threatening physical assault; or damaging a person’s work area or property;
c. Gestures, such as nonverbal, threatening or insulting movements or excessive staring; and
d. Exclusion, such as socially or physically excluding or isolating a person from work-related activities. [Emphasis added.]
(JX 7, pp. 1, 3.)
ARTICLE 14 – DISCIPLINARY PROCEDURE SECTION 25-14.02

REASONS FOR DISCIPLINE
Disciplinary action may be taken against an employee for misconduct, including but not limited to:
a. Willful disobedience and insubordination, a willful failure to submit to duly appointed and acting supervisions or to conform to duly established orders or directions of persons in a supervisory position;
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d. Failure to perform work in a satisfactory manner;
e. Inefficiency or inexcusable neglect of duty, i.e., failure to perform duties required by the employee’s position;
…
h. Dishonesty, involving employment;
…
o. Discourteous treatment of the public or other employees within the scope of employment;
…
w. Willful violation of any of the provisions of the ordinances, resolutions or any rules, regulations or policies which may be prescribed by the department or City [including violation of the MCC 25-3.03 and General Services Division Standard Operating Procedures].
(JX 5.)
SECTION 25-14.06 NOTICE OF PROPOSED DISCIPLINARY ACTION a. Except for reprimands, written notice of proposed disciplinary action shall be served on the employee personally or by certified mail to the last known address, and a copy of the notice shall be submitted to the Human Resources Director (Ord 3385; 02/07) for inclusion in the employee’s personnel file.

Failure to receive mailed notice shall not be grounds for reversal or delay of the proposed discipline.
b. At a minimum, the written notice shall contain the following information:

1. The disciplinary action proposed;

2. The effective date of the action;

3. The reason or cause for the action;

4. A statement that the employee may inspect copies of all materials upon which the action is based;

5. A statement that the employee has the right to representation and to respond, either orally or in writing, to the authority initially imposing the discipline. c. Except in instances where disciplinary action must be taken immediately, the notice shall be provided the [sic] employee at least five (5) working days before the disciplinary action is to be effective. Where immediate disciplinary action AR 501
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d. Any employee may be immediately suspended with or without pay by a department head pending proposed discipline in any situation where the employee is accused of misconduct which constitutes job related moral turpitude, or where the employee’s presence at the workplace could result in a disruption or interruption. The determination of whether the suspension will be without pay shall be made by the City Manager and shall be based on the severity of the misconduct alleged, the conclusiveness of the evidence of misconduct, and the nature of discipline proposed by the department head. e. Should the employee fail to respond to the notice of proposed disciplinary action as outlined in Section 14.06.b.5 and 14.06.c., such action shall constitute a waiver of all rights to appeal under these rules. (Ord. 3273, 2000) (JX 6.)
V. RELEVANT PROVISIONS OF THE CITY OF MONTEREY GENERAL
SERVICES DIVISION: STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES
Expectations on Courtesy
• Employees of the City of Monterey are expected to maintain courteous and respectful behavior at all times towards Building Maintenance Workers, Craftsworkers, Seniors, the General Services Superintendent, other coworkers, fellow employees, citizens, military personnel, tourists and the public in general (Personnel Rules and Regulations 15.14.02).
(JX 8, pp. 5-6.)
VI. STATEMENT OF FACTS
A. The Public Works Department and Balthrop’s Employment History Jerod Balthrop began working for the City in June of 2000 as an electrician. (Stipulation of Fact #1.) His direct supervisor at the time of his termination was Christopher Dwight. (Stipulation of Fact #4.) Balthrop’s duties at the time of his termination on November 8, 2023, were as an electrician performing maintenance services for the United States Army located at the Monterey Presidio. (Stipulations of Fact #2 and #3.) Balthrop worked for the general services/building maintenance division of the City of Monterey Public Works Department. (Tr.

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The Public Works Department is overseen by Andrea Renny, Public Works Director. (98:21-99:5). Renny oversees seven divisions, including public works administration, fleet services, streets and utilities, engineering, harbor marina, parking, and general services/building maintenance. (99:22-100:3.)
B. The City’s Investigation of a Complaint Against Mr. Balthrop On January 19, 2023, the City received a complaint from Lieutenant Jesus Sanchez—a security guard supervisor at the Presidio who works for the Department of Defense—describing an incident that he witnessed at the Subway restaurant located at the Monterey Presidio. Lieutenant Sanchez stated that Balthrop walked in through the back door and Leslie Fraide, a manager of Subway, asked him not to use the back door unless he was there for a work order. Balthrop jokingly claimed he was there to check the lights to justify his entrance through the back, but Fraide said she did not want to get in trouble with Aysl Gan, AAFES2 manager and the manager of the Army
building where Subway is located, for letting him use the back door. (C-6, Part 1 at p. 12.) Balthrop then said “tell Aysl she can suck it,” while slapping both arms towards his groin. (Ibid.) Lieutenant Sanchez said to Balthrop, “Look man, she’s asking you nicely, she doesn’t want to get in trouble,” which Balthrop ignored. Balthrop then proceeded to order his sandwich. (Ibid.) On January 31, 2023, the City retained outside investigator Joe Rose, a licensed attorney, to investigate the complaint. (29:5-12.)3 Rose conducted an investigation into the Subway incident, 1 Unless otherwise specified, all page-line citations are to the transcript of the Arbitration Hearing on April 24, 2024.
2 AAFES is an acronym for Army and Air Force Exchange Service. AAFES coordinates provision of food and merchandise to military personnel and others on U.S. Department of Defense installations. (C-1 at p. 11, fn. 2.)
3 During his investigation, Mr. Rose received an additional complaint dated February 7, 2023, from Presidio security guard Julius J. Brown. (C-8.) Rose did not investigate it because Brown’s various complaints that Balthrop did not follow security procedures when escorting a contractor onto the Presidio, that he refused to present his identification for scanning, that he refused to dim his truck headlights when approaching the guard station, and that he blared loud music from his truck involved matters peripheral to the main focus of the investigation—the incident at Subway.

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Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 507, Packet Page 752 which included interviews with Lieutenant Jesus Sanchez, Fraide, and Balthrop.4

1. Lieutenant Jesus Sanchez Provided A Credible, Unbiased, and Corroborated Account of the Subway Incident
Rose interviewed Lieutenant Sanchez on February 10, 2023. (C-1 at pp. 5, 11-14.) Lieutenant Sanchez told Rose what he personally witnessed at the Subway restaurant in December of 2022. (Ibid.) At the hearing, Lieutenant Sanchez testified consistently with his email complaint to Balthrop’s supervisor, as well as with the account he gave Rose. Lieutenant Sanchez recalled that in December of 2022, he went with a subordinate named Damiel Brown5 to the Subway restaurant located at the Presidio and was talking with Leslie Fraide, who is a manager at the Subway. (82:5-83:20.) Lieutenant Sanchez did not know Leslie’s last name. (82:21-22.) Balthrop entered through the back door and Leslie told him not to enter through the back door without a work order. (84:1-13.) She said this in a polite and professional tone of voice. (84:9.) Fraide told Balthrop that the reason for her request was that she was getting in trouble with Gan for leaving the back door open. (84:14-85:6.) Balthrop then looked up at the lights and pretended to check them. (85:7-17.) Lieutenant Sanchez did not observe any flickering or other problem with the lights. (85:23-86:1.) Balthrop then said he had keys and he could come in if he wanted. (86:2-5.) Fraide repeated that he needed to have a work order to be in the area near the back door. (86:5-

10.) Balthrop then said “you can tell Aysl she can suck it,” and made a gesture towards his groin that Lieutenant Sanchez demonstrated during the hearing. (86:11-87:3.) Lieutenant Sanchez said that Fraide’s reaction was like a “jaw drop.” (87:4-5.) Lieutenant Sanchez then decided to say something to Balthrop because he felt what he did was a form of sexual harassment, not very professional, and not something anyone should experience in their workplace. (87:22-88:3.) Lieutenant Sanchez mentioned that he had a daughter and that he would not want her to see anything like that in the workplace. (88:4-10.) Lieutenant Sanchez felt offended by Balthrop’s 4 Charles “Chuck” Howard was also interviewed at Mr. Balthrop’s suggestion regarding the February 7, 2023 complaint from Julius J. Brown. (C-8.)
5 Damiel Brown should not be confused with Julius Brown, the security guard who made the February 7, 2023 complaint against Balthrop. (C-8.)
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Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 508, Packet Page 753 comment and behavior because he felt that it was 100 percent unprofessional and constituted actions that should not be taken by anyone wearing a uniform, whether you are representing Subway or the City of Monterey. (88:13-19.) Lieutenant Sanchez confirmed that Balthrop was wearing his City of Monterey uniform that day—blue pants, jacket, shirt. (88:20-89:5.) Lieutenant Sanchez denied that he had any romantic interest in Leslie. (89:22-25.) He also confirmed that Balthrop’s statement that Lieutenant Sanchez was not in the Subway that day was not true. (89:18-

21.) Lieutenant Sanchez also confirmed that he sent an email complaint to Balthrop’s supervisor about this incident on January 19, 2023. (C-3; 90:1-92:13.) He never discussed this email complaint with Fraide before sending it. (93:8-10.)

2. Balthrop’s Repeated Lies and False Denials During his Investigation Interview
Rose interviewed Balthrop on March 6, 2023. (C-6.) Prior to the interview, Balthrop received a written Notice of Investigation and Request to Schedule Administrative Interview dated February 21, 2023. The written notice specifically advised Balthrop as follows:

You are directed to cooperate fully with the investigator and answer all questions candidly, truthfully and honestly. Refusal to answer questions relating to the performance of your official duties or untruthfulness in your answers or statements during this investigation would violate City of Monterey rules and regulations, would be insubordination, and may subject you to disciplinary charges which could cause adverse employment action. (JX 9.)
Rose also admonished Balthrop at the beginning of his interview that he should be “honest and truthful” when answering his questions:

Rose: And the most important thing is of course to be truthful and honest with me as we go forward, because I have to make a finding of credibility in my report. And so, we don’t want to take something that could be small or manageable and then magnify it by any sort of dishonesty or untruthfulness that can make things worse. And that would be an independent ground for discipline. Do you understand what I mean by that?
Balthrop: I have no reason to lie at all.
(C-1, pp. 14-15; C-6, Part 1 at pp. 1-2.)
Balthrop was accompanied by his union representative Ryan Herron. (C-6, Part 1, at p. 1.) AR 505
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 509, Packet Page 754 Balthrop began the interview on the offensive, alleging that he was a victim of harassment and retaliation from a Presidio security guard he knew as “Brown,” beginning after the incident at Subway. (C-6, pp. 4-5, 7.) Balthrop apparently believed that “Brown” was the security guard present during the incident at Subway and filed the complaint against Balthrop. (C-6, Part 1 at pp. 5, 10-11.) In an effort to impeach the security guard’s account of the Subway incident, again assuming it was “Brown,” Balthrop alleged that he was a victim of harassment and retaliation from “Brown” following the Subway incident forcing him to make a complaint about “Brown” to the U.S. Army in March 2023. (C-6, at p. 6.)6
Balthrop went so far as to speculate that Fraide and the security guard’s motive to lie about what Balthrop did and said was because they were romantically involved and that “Brown” did not want Fraide to get in trouble for leaving the back door open.

Balthrop asserted in this interview that they both made up lies about him to “get me back.” (C-6, Part 1, pp. 5-6, 14.)
Initially, Balthrop told Rose that he never made the comment or gesture about Aysl Gan.

He said that it was a rainy and stormy day when he entered the Subway restaurant around lunch time through the rear door because he saw the lights flickering and went in to check them. (C-6, Part 1 at pp. 5-6, 11-12, Part 2 at pp. 6-7.) He noticed two Presidio security guards, one of whom he thought might have been named “Brown,” were in the restaurant buying sandwiches from Fraide. (C-6, Part 1, p.4.) He stated that Fraide “copped an attitude” and “yelled” at him in the presence of the two security guards and told him that “you can’t come in through here.” (C-6, Part 2, at pp. 8-9.) Balthrop told Rose that he said to Fraide that he was there to check the lights, but she did not believe him. Fraide said that Gan said that no one can enter through the back door anymore. (C-6, Part 1 at pp. 13-14.) Balthrop admitted that he did not think “super highly” of Gan, stating, “She’s not my favorite person, but she’s not my worse [sic] enemy.” (C-6, Part 2, pp. 11- 6 Balthrop’s allegations of harassment and retaliation from security guard Brown are the same as the subject of Brown’s February 7th complaint against Balthrop—that Balthrop did not follow security procedures when escorting a contractor onto the Presidio, that he refused to present his identification for scanning, that he refused to dim his headlight when approaching the guard station, and that he blared loud music from his truck. (C-8.)
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14.) He also admitted that he was “pretty heated,” “hurt,” “angry,” and “upset” about Fraide asking him not to use the back door based on Gan’s instructions. (C-6, Part 3 at p. 6.) Balthrop categorically denied saying “tell Aysl she can suck it,” and making any motion or gesture towards his groin area. Rose then confronted Balthrop with Lieutenant Sanchez’s and Fraide’s similar statements about what happened at the Subway in December of 2022. Balthrop continued to refuse to admit to his conduct. He outright lied to the investigator numerous times, including the following denials:

Rose: Did you say anything else about Aysl?
Balthrop: No.

Rose: You’re 100% sure of that?
Balthrop: Yep.
(C-6, Part 2, p. 10.)
Rose: She [Leslie] said that she [Aysl Gan] was getting upset about people coming in through the back door and that you responded and said “tell Aysl she can suck it. And then you referenced your penis area and your genitals and you made a V shape like this. “Tell Aysl she can suck it.”
Balthrop: Really?
Rose: Are you denying that that happened?
Balthrop: Yes, I’m denying all that. She’s making that stuff up. (C-6, Part 2, at pp. 23-24.)
Rose: So the issue is really gesturing to your penis and telling her that Aysl can suck it. There were two witnesses present, not Brown, Leslie and another guy Sanchez, he’s a security officer. And they both say independently that you did this.

Balthrop: the security guy left, they got there, there were paying for the sandwich, right?……I never said that. The guards left…they weren’t there…that’s all fabricated shit, all this stuff is fabricated.. they made this shit up…
(C-6, Part 2, pp. 27-31.)
When told that Fraide was offended by his lewd comment and gesture, rather than apologize or admit to his conduct, Balthrop laughed and said, “She’s offended by it, girl with a AR 507
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 511, Packet Page 756 tattoo all over her neck and it looks like someone that came out of prison. She’s offended by it?” (C-6, Part 2 at p. 41.)
After approximately 1 hour and 20 minutes into the interview, Rose asked Balthrop:

Rose: So when I write my report…what should I say in my report that you deny saying Aysl can suck it and you deny motioning to your groin. Is that an accurate way of characterizing your statement, or do you want to take a break and talk to Ryan about it?
Balthrop: Let me take a break on that. Talk to Ryan.
(C-6, Part 2 at pp. 42-43.)7
After the break, Balthrop continued to insist that Fraide was lying about asking him for a work order, mopping the floor, and about the guards being there. But he did “remember” that he told Fraide that Aysl can suck it and motioned towards his “knee.” (C-6, Part 3, at pp. 1-3; 54:13- 55:22.) He insisted that he meant “kiss my ass” and that the motion towards his legs had no significance. (C-6, Part 3, at pp. 13-14.) When Balthrop’s union representative suggested it was a WWE move, Balthrop enthusiastically endorsed that idea. (C-6, Part 3, at p. 15; C-1 at p. 21; 57:16-58:15.)
Balthrop admitted to Rose that he did take the sexual harassment trainings as indicated in his training records in 2009, 2011, 2014, 2016, 2019 and 2022. (C-2; C-6, Part 3 at p. 9; 58:16- 60:17.) He also admitted that he may have done some additional trainings prior to 2009. (C-6, Part 3 at p. 9.)
As a result of Balthrop’s clear refusal to admit to his conduct in the face of testimony from two unbiased witnesses, and repeatedly accusing them of lying, Rose considered him to be “evasive and not credible” (C-1, p.14; 61:12-17), and therefore gave his denials little weight. Rose considered Balthrop’s hypothetical theories for Fraide’s and Lieutenant Sanchez’s motivations to fabricate this claim to be nonsensical. (C-1 at p. 40; 51:24-54:12.) Balthrop’s belated and partial 7 In making his credibility assessment of Balthrop, Rose did not take into account the fact that he took a break to speak to his union representative because he understood that Balthrop had a due process right to effective representation from his union. The fact that he took a break went only towards the context and timing of his partial admission after the break. (75:24-76:8.) AR 508
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 512, Packet Page 757 admission—after a 1 hour and 20 minute interview and a break to talk to his union representative that he admitted to saying “Aysl can suck it” while motioning to his knee rather than his groin— was not believable. (C-1 at p. 39; 60:24-61:11.) Rose found it more believable that Balthrop was angry and upset when Fraide told him not to enter through the back door based on Gan’s instructions, and that his subsequent lewd comment and gesture were consistent with Balthrop’s low opinion of Gan. (Ibid.) Rose also found Fraide to be a more credible witness than Balthrop, with key pieces of her version of the incident corroborated by Lieutenant Sanchez and to a certain extent Balthrop. She had no discernable motive to lie. (37:15-38:5; 40:23-42:13.) Rose also found that Lieutenant Sanchez corroborated Fraide’s account of the incident (43:8-44:4), and that he also had no discernable motive to lie. (45:4-6.)
After the investigative interview, Balthrop made no subsequent attempt to contact Rose to correct his testimony, despite clearly knowing how to do so.

Rose concluded that Balthrop did in fact make a lewd comment and gesture at work in the presence of two members of the public—Lieutenant Sanchez and Fraide. Rose also found that Balthrop’s denials and efforts to deflect attention from his conduct were evasive and untruthful.

He also found Fraide and Lieutenant Sanchez to be credible witnesses who had no discernable motive to lie.

C. Discipline and Skelly Hearing
Once the investigation was completed, Rose forwarded his report to Renny, Public Works Director. (101:14-17.) Renny issued Balthrop a Notice of Proposed Disciplinary Action— Termination (“Notice”). The Notice described the basis for the proposed discipline— termination—was dishonesty and making a lewd comment and gesture to a member of the public.

It also contained findings that his conduct violated the City’s personnel rules and regulations.

Renny prepared and signed this Notice on October 13, 2023 (JX 4; 102:13-24), and personally delivered it to Balthrop on the same day. (102:25-103:9.) Balthrop was then placed on paid administrative leave. (103:10-15.) Renny also advised him that if he wanted to appeal the proposed termination, he could request a Skelly hearing.

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Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 513, Packet Page 758 Renny determined that Balthrop’s actions, as outlined in the investigative report, were egregious and that he was dishonest during the investigation. This was in violation of multiple City of Monterey policies, including Monterey City Code section 25-14.02(b) willful disobedience and insubordination, (d) failure to perform work in a satisfactory manner, (e) inefficiency or inexcusable neglect of duty and failure to perform duties required by the employee’s position, (h) dishonesty, involving employment, (o) discourteous treatment of the public or other employees within the scope of employment, and (w) willful violation of rules, regulations or policies which may be prescribed by the department or City, including violation of the MCC 25-3.03; General Services Division Standard Operating Procedures (Expectations on Courtesy) (JX 5; JX 8); and the City of Monterey’s Harassment/Discrimination/Retaliation/Abusive Conduct/Bullying Policy (Abusive Conduct/Bullying) (JX 7).

Renny determined termination, rather than some lesser form of discipline, was necessary for Balthrop because, in addition to his lewd comment and gesture, Balthrop repeatedly lied to the investigator and never admitted to or accepted responsibility for his conduct. Accordingly, that added element of dishonesty throughout the investigation required termination. Furthermore, though Renny considered lesser discipline than termination, she determined that Balthrop’s role as a maintenance worker/electrician on a secure military facility was also significant. The City is responsible for its employees when they are on the secure military facility. The City needs to be able to trust its employees. Balthrop demonstrated during his interview that he simply could not be trusted. Accordingly, no lesser discipline was possible once that trust was broken.

The Skelly hearing was held on October 27, 2023, with Renny serving as the Skelly officer. (C-5; 111:25-112:20.) Balthrop’s hearing lasted approximately 45 to 60 minutes, during which time Balthrop continued to minimize his conduct and was less than forthcoming. (C-5 at pp. 1-2.) He admitted that he said “Aysl can suck it,” but continued to deny making an obscene gesture towards his groin area at the same time that he said those words. (C-5 at p. 2; 115:1-7.) Instead, he claimed that he slapped his knee five minutes after he said “Aysl can suck it,” again contradicting both Fraide’s and Lieutenant Sanchez’s statements. (Ibid.) AR 510
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 514, Packet Page 759 At the Skelly hearing, Balthrop presented a doctor’s note which stated that he could not physically touch his groin with his arms. (C-5 at p. 2; 114:7-21.) He also continued to deny that Lieutenant Sanchez was present at the Subway when the incident occurred. (C-5 at p. 4; 114:24-

25.) He merely expressed remorse for saying “tell Aysl she can suck it,” but not for the obscene gesture that accompanied that comment. (C-5 at p. 2.) And he only expressed remorse because he wanted to reduce his termination to a lesser form of discipline. (C-5 at p. 1.) Renny considered all of the above, including Balthrop’s personnel records with no documented discipline, and his long list of sexual harassment trainings completed to date (C-2), along with his continued dishonesty and partial apologies, but ultimately determined that it was “too little, too late,” and that the termination was still the only appropriate discipline due to his continued dishonesty and the egregiousness of his conduct. Renny then issued Balthrop the Final Notice of Disciplinary Action—Termination on November 7, 2023. (C-4.) D. Balthrop’s Continued Dishonesty During the Arbitration Hearing Despite Balthrop’s apparent though partial contrition during his Skelly hearing, during his testimony at the arbitration he resumed lying about all of his misconduct. First, he lied about not making a gesture towards his groin area while he said “tell Aysl she can suck it.” (149:17-18; 170:12-16.) Then, he lied about Lieutenant Sanchez not being present and witnessing the incident. (142:9-15; 173:13-174:20.) He further lied about making a gesture to touch his leg 5 minutes after he said “Aysl can suck it,” as he was leaving with his sandwich. (142:24-143:3.) Balthrop even made-up new lies, claiming for the first time that his memory was impaired at the time of his interview with Rose due to sleep apnea and stress, thereby impacting his ability to remember what he said to Fraide. (151:16-152:7.) And, inexplicably, his memory got better despite these alleged “impairments” after the break in the interview he had with his union representative. Notably, the first time Balthrop ever made those claims about impaired memory was at the arbitration hearing itself. He never told Rose, prior to his interview, that there was any reason that he could not remember things during his interview. He never responded with “I don’t remember” or “I don’t recall.” The reason why he never said any of those things is because these excuses were fabricated.

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Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 515, Packet Page 760 Balthrop also continued to deny that he was dishonest during his interview with Rose. He claimed that he did not lie to Rose for the first hour and 20 minutes of the interview because Rose did not ask him about the incident during that time. However, Rose told Balthrop about the complaint against him and that it involved the incident at Subway in December of 2022 at minute 5:34 of the interview. (C-6, Part 1 at p. 4.) At the beginning of the interview with Rose, Balthrop immediately launched into how he was being harassed by a security guard whom he only knew as “Brown” and how he filed a complaint against that person for harassment. (C-6, Part 1 at pp. 4-5.) He also talked at length about his theory that a romantic relationship is the reason that security guard “Brown,” whom he assumed was the percipient witness present at the Subway restaurant, would lie about what he saw. (C-6, Part 1 at p. 5.) This attempt to fabricate bias towards him from security guard “Brown” is unavailing, however, because Lieutenant Sanchez is the security guard that witnessed the incident, and not Brown. Although there was a security guard named Damiel Brown with Lieutenant Sanchez the day of the incident, he did not witness Balthrop’s conduct and he is a different person than Julius Brown who filed a complaint against Balthrop (C-8) and whom Balthrop alleges harassed him. In any event, any incidents Balthrop alleged involving harassment by Julius Brown happened after the December 2022 Subway incident, so 1) they did not involve Lieutenant Sanchez; 2) Lieutenant Sanchez had no motive to lie; and 3) none of it was retaliatory as alleged by Balthrop.

Additionally, Balthrop’s recorded statement clearly shows that Rose asked him whether he said “tell Aysl she can suck it,” while motioning towards his groin approximately 1 hour and 12 minutes into the interview. (C-6, Part 2 at p. 24.) Balthrop then proceeded to deny both making the comment and the gesture. It was not until after he took a break that he then returned and only partially admitted to his conduct that he did say “Aysl can suck it.” (C-6, Part 2 at pp. 42-43; Part 3 at pp. 1-2.) For Balthrop to say that Rose lied about him being dishonest because Rose never asked him about the Subway incident during the first hour and 20 minutes of the interview is clearly contradicted by his recorded statement making Balthrop’s allegations completely baseless and dishonest.

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Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 516, Packet Page 761 In order for Balthrop’s testimony at the hearing, and his dubious excuses, to be true, it would also require finding that Lieutenant Sanchez, Fraide and Rose lied. The much more simple explanation—and the one that is true—is that the two unbiased percipient witnesses told the truth, and that the one witness (Balthrop), whom a previous independent investigator found to be the least credible of all the witnesses he interviewed, simply continued to lie under oath.

VII. ARGUMENT
The issue for this advisory fact-finding is whether the City of Monterey has just cause to terminate Balthrop. Through the following discussion, the City will amply demonstrate that it has more than met its burden of proof and that the misconduct committed by Balthrop provides a substantial and sufficient basis to support its decision to terminate.

It is anticipated that Balthrop will argue that despite the overwhelming evidence supporting his termination, it should nevertheless be overturned on the following grounds: (1) Balthrop was on a work break when the incident at Subway occurred; (2) Balthrop’s conduct was not egregious; (3) Balthrop never lied to the investigator during his interview; and (4) the City’s decision to terminate him was excessive. As the City will show below, all of these arguments are significantly flawed and without merit.

The City therefore respectfully requests that the Arbitrator uphold Balthrop’s termination.

A. The Burden of Proof is Preponderance of the Evidence In cases involving employee discipline, the City bears the burden of proof. “Arbitrators have consistently ruled that the burden of proof in [discharge or discipline cases] rests with the employer and that the arbitrator may determine the weight and relevance of evidence to decide the controversy.” (Elkouri & Elkouri, HOW ARBITRATION WORKS, (Bloomberg BNA, 7th Edition 2012) at 8-13.) As to the quantum of proof, because arbitration is a civil, not a criminal, matter, involving a basic inquiry by an arbitrator into whether an employer had “cause” to discipline an employee, the applicable standard is “preponderance of the evidence.” (See Wholesale Produce Supply Co., 101 LA 1101 (Bognanno, 1993) [company need only prove by a preponderance of the evidence that it properly discharged employee for dishonesty because even though allegations of AR 513
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 517, Packet Page 762 dishonesty are serious, labor arbitration is not a criminal court of law].) Accordingly, the quantum of proof required by most arbitrators in ordinary discipline cases is proof by a preponderance of the evidence. (Elkouri & Elkouri, HOW ARBITRATION WORKS, supra, at 15-25; Rittman Nursing & Rehab. Ctr., 113 LA 284 (Kelman, 1999); see also Skelly v. State Personnel Board (1975) 15 Cal.3d 194, 204 [the “appointing power has the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that the act or omissions of the employee upon which the charges are based and of establishing that these acts constitute cause for discipline….”]; Bemis Co., 127 LA 499 (Ross, 2010) [insubordination need be proved only by preponderance of the evidence].) In contrast, “[t]he ‘clear and convincing evidence’ standard is applied by many arbitrators in cases where the offense of which the employee is accused is seriously criminal, especially opprobrious, or shameful so as to stigmatize the employee and likely to prevent the employee from obtaining other employment.” (Elkouri & Elkouri, HOW ARBITRATION WORKS (BNA Books, 6th Edition, 2010) Supp, p. 348; see e.g., City of Oakland, 128 LA 231 (Landau, 2010).) Here, the City has not alleged that Balthrop engaged in “criminal, especially opprobrious, or shameful” misconduct. Accordingly, the preponderance of the evidence standard is appropriate.

Even assuming, arguendo, that a higher burden of proof applied, e.g., “clear and convincing evidence,” the City has met that burden. Indeed, in whichever manner it may be described, the proper standard in all discipline cases is that the “arbitrator must be convinced in his or her mind that the misconduct occurred.” (Cincinnati State Technical & Community College, 122 LA 1473, 1475 (Murphy, 2006).) Thus, the Arbitrator should not resolve doubts in favor of the grievant but instead should examine the entire record to determine whether the grievant committed the charged misconduct. Applying this standard, the record in this case clearly shows that Balthrop committed the misconduct of which he is accused, i.e., making a lewd comment and gesture in the presence of two members of the public and then repeatedly lying about it.

AR 514
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 518, Packet Page 763 B. The City has Proven by More Than a Preponderance of the Evidence That Balthrop’s Termination was Supported by Just Cause
The term “just cause” or, synonymously, “good cause” has been widely used in employment disputes and has been generally construed by courts as “fair and honest reasons, regulated by good faith on the part of the employer, that are not trivial, arbitrary or capricious, unrelated to business needs or goals, or pretextual. A reasoned conclusion, in short, supported by substantial evidence gathered through an adequate investigation that includes notice of the claimed misconduct and a chance for the employee to respond.” (Cotran v. Rollins Hudig Hallt Int. (1998) 17 Cal.4th 93, 108.) Employers are not required to prove that the misconduct took place, but only that the employer reasonably believed it took place and otherwise acted fairly. (Id. at 107; King v.

United Parcel Service, Inc. (2007) 152 Cal.App.4th 426, 438.) If the employer makes such a showing, courts typically defer to the employer’s good faith exercise of its managerial discretion, as the decider of fact “should not be thrust into a managerial role.” (Cotran, supra, at 101.) Under the Cotran standard, three factual determinations are relevant to the question of just cause: (1) whether the employer acted in good faith in deciding to terminate the employee; (2) whether the decision followed an adequate investigation; and (3) whether the employer had reasonable grounds for believing the charges against the employee were true. (Silva v. Lucky Stores, Inc. (1998) 65 Cal.App.4th 256, 264.) An adequate investigation has further been described as calling for listening to both sides and giving the employee a fair opportunity to present his or her position and correct or contradict relevant statements or information. (Ibid.) This common law standard developed by courts has historically been applied by arbitrators as well, though often with more particularity. Arbitrator Carroll Daugherty published a seven-test method for determining just cause in 1964 as an attempt to crystalize the existing common law definition. (Brand & Biren, DISCIPLINE & DISCHARGE IN ARBITRATION (3rd ed. 2015) Just Cause, § 2, p. 5-6.) Under Daugherty’s test, just cause does not exist if the answer to any of the following questions is “no”:
(1) Notice: Did the employer give the employee forewarning or foreknowledge of the possible or probable disciplinary consequences of the employee’s AR 515
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 519, Packet Page 764 conduct?
(2) Reasonable relation to operations: Was the employer’s rule or managerial order reasonably related to the orderly, efficient, and safe operation of the company’s business?
(3) Investigation: Did the employer, before administering discipline to an employee, make an effort to discover whether the employee violated or disobeyed a rule or order of management?
(4) Fairness of investigation: Was the employer’s investigation conducted fairly and objectively?
(5) Sufficiency of proof: At the investigation, did the “judge” obtain substantial evidence or proof that the employee was guilty as charged? (6) Non-discrimination: Has the employer applied its rules, orders, and penalties evenhandedly and without discrimination to all employees? (7) Appropriateness of penalty: Was the degree of discipline by the employer reasonably related to the seriousness of the employee’s proven offense and the record of the employee’s service? (Ibid.)
This seven-test method closely tracks the requirements of proof at common law.8 Using Arbitrator Daugherty’s seven-part test, Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 are not reasonably disputable, nor has Balthrop presented any argument or evidence through the investigation, his Skelly hearing, or the arbitration to contest them. However, the City does expect that Balthrop will contest Nos. 5 and 7, and will therefore show below that it has clearly met those elements as well.

1. The City Has Presented Substantial Evidence that Balthrop Made a Lewd Comment and Gesture in the Workplace and Lied About it to the Investigator
Both courts and arbitrators require that the employer have sufficient or substantial evidence of the employee’s alleged misconduct in order to find just cause for terminating the employee. In making this determination of proof, an employer is not required to take the employee’s statements as unquestionable truth. Rather, and quite the opposite, the employer must make credibility 8 The first Cotran determination, the employer’s good faith, encompasses the 1st, 2nd, 6th, and 7th tests; the second Cotran determination, adequate investigation, encompasses the 3rd and 4th tests; and the third Cotran determination, reasonable grounds for belied, encompasses the 5th test.

AR 516
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 520, Packet Page 765 determinations. In fact, arbitrators generally find aggravated grounds for discharge where the employee is either dishonest, not forthcoming, or unrepentant regarding his or her misconduct. (See, e.g., Thatcher & Sons, Inc., 76 BNA LA 1278, 1280 (Nutt, 1981).) As stated in the Discipline & Discharge treatise:

When assessing whether discipline is excessive, arbitrators often consider the attitude of the employee. An admission of wrongdoing, an expression of remorse, or an offer of apology may lead to a finding that leniency was appropriate. By contrast, when an employee avoids responsibility for his actions, the arbitrator may be less inclined to overturn a serious penalty. In BHP Petroleum, for example, the arbitrator upheld a discharge, citing, among other factors, the employee’s tendency to blame others for his shortcomings. (Brand & Biren, Discipline & Discharge in Arbitration (3rd ed. 2015) Just Cause, § 2, p. 85-86 [referencing BHP Petroleum/Gasco, Inc., 102 BNA LA 321, 326-327 (Najita, 1994)]; see also Chemical Solvents, Inc., 129 BNA LA 888, 894-895 (Ruben, 2011) [quoting above passage].)
In this case, two credible, unbiased, and independent witnesses, Lieutenant Sanchez and Fraide, described Balthrop’s conduct in detail. Balthrop himself admits that he made the comment “Aysl can suck it.” He even, belatedly, reluctantly and partially admitted he had one hand below the belt near in time to when he made the comment. Rose, an experienced attorney investigator who was engaged to conduct a neutral and impartial investigation, determined that both Fraide and Lieutenant Sanchez were credible and that Balthrop was evasive and not credible. The doctor’s note indicating Balthrop could not touch his groin is irrelevant—and was produced in response to the discipline—because Balthrop is certainly able to gesture towards his groin area while tilting his hips upwards, as described by the witnesses and as demonstrated by Lieutenant Sanchez at the hearing, even if he cannot touch his groin area. There is also no evidence to support Balthrop’s claims that he could not remember what happened at Subway during the Rose investigative interview due to sleep apnea and stress. He never indicated to Rose that he was not capable of answering the questions and never said he could not remember, which is demonstrated by the transcript of the interview. Throughout his interview, Balthrop lied and denied his conduct and fabricated an outlandish story about a security guard and his supposed relationship with Fraide and their feeble attempts to frame him for no reason. This is contrasted with Lieutenant Sanchez, an AR 517
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 521, Packet Page 766 officer in the U.S. Army who happened to be at Subway that day getting lunch and had little to no contact with Balthrop prior to this incident, and Fraide, who was simply trying to do her job. These individuals, as found by Rose, were credible, had no motive to fabricate their accounts and each one corroborated the other even though they were separately interviewed.

The City has presented more than enough evidence to find by any standard of proof that Balthrop did make a lewd remark and gesture in the workplace in the presence of Lieutenant Sanchez and Fraide, and that he lied about doing so repeatedly to the investigator, and again while under oath during the arbitration.

2. The City’s Determination that Termination was Appropriate was Reasonably Related to the Seriousness of Balthrop’s Misconduct and Should Not Be Disturbed
Where the employer has proven that the employee engaged in serious misconduct, arbitrators will typically refrain from overturning management’s discretion as to the proper penalty, under the following rationale:

Where an employee has violated a rule or engaged in conduct meriting disciplinary action it is primarily the function of management to decide upon the proper penalty.

If management acts in good faith upon a fair investigation and fixes a penalty not inconsistent with that imposed in other like cases, an arbitrator should not disturb it. The mere fact that management has imposed a somewhat different penalty or a somewhat more severe penalty than the arbitrator would have, if he had had the decision to make originally, is not justification for changing it. The minds of equally reasonable men differ. A consideration which would weigh heavily with one man will seem of less importance to another. A circumstance which highly aggravates an offense in one man’s eyes may be only slight aggravation to another. If an arbitrator could substitute his judgement and discretion for the judgment and discretion honestly exercised by management, then the functions of management would have been abdicated, and unions would take every case to arbitration. The result would be as intolerable to employees as to management. The only circumstances under which a penalty imposed by management can be rightfully set aside by an arbitrator are those where discrimination, unfairness, or capricious and arbitrary action are proved-in other words, where there has been abuse of discretion. (Gold Kist, Inc., 62 BNA LA 139, 145 (Rutherford, 1974) [quoting Arbitrator Whitley P. McCoy’s opinion in Stockham Pipe Fitting Company, 1 LA 160, 162 (McCoy, 1945)].) “Thus, the penalty imposed by the employer should not be overturned unless it can be shown that management has AR 518
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 522, Packet Page 767 abused its discretion.” (Ibid.) In this case, Balthrop engaged in two forms of serious misconduct:
he made a lewd comment and gesture in the presence of two members of the public; and he lied to the investigator when questioned about it numerous times despite being directed to tell the truth. (Brand & Biren, DISCIPLINE & DISCHARGE IN ARBITRATION (3rd ed. 2015) Dishonesty and Disloyalty, § 7-1, p. 7-2 [“Among the most serious forms of employee misconduct are acts of dishonesty”].)
Balthrop’s lewd comment and gesture violated multiple employee rules and regulations, including Monterey City Code section 25-3.03, which is the City’s Harassment / Discrimination / Retaliation /Abusive Conduct / Bullying Policy. Pursuant to that policy, subsection (c)(4) states:

Abusive Conduct/Bullying. In addition to prohibited harassment and discrimination based on protected class status, the City is committed to protecting its employees from abusive conduct/bullying. Abusive conduct/bullying means, as defined in Government Code Section 12950.1, as may be amended from time to time “…conduct of an employer or employee in the workplace, with malice, that a reasonable person would find hostile, offensive, and unrelated to an employer’s legitimate business interests. Abusive conduct may include repeated infliction of verbal abuse, such as the use of derogatory remarks, insults, and epithets, verbal or physical conduct that a reasonable person would find threatening, intimidating, or humiliating, or the gratuitous sabotage or undermining of a person’s work performance. A single act shall not constitute abusive conduct, unless especially severe and egregious.” Abusive conduct/bullying may occur in, but is not limited to, the following forms:
a. Verbal behavior, which may include written or email communications, ridiculing or maligning a person or his/her family; persistent name calling which is hurtful, insulting, or humiliating; using a person as the target of jokes; abusive and offensive remarks;
b. Physical behavior, such as pushing, shoving, kicking, poking, tripping, assaulting, or threatening physical assault; or damaging a person’s work area or property;
c. Gestures, such as nonverbal, threatening or insulting movements or excessive staring; and
d. Exclusion, such as socially or physically excluding or isolating a person from work-related activities. [Emphasis added.]
(JX 7, pp. 1, 3.)
The City continues to firmly believe that a high level of discipline is necessary and warranted in the face of the offensive conduct and calloused disregard for the public’s perception AR 519
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 523, Packet Page 768 of it as offensive.

Balthrop’s lewd comment and gesture also violated Monterey City Code, Article 14.02(o) discourteous treatment of the public or other employees within the scope of employment, and City of Monterey General Services Division: Standard Operating Procedures regarding Courtesy. (JX 5; JX 8.) His failure to follow Standard Operating Procedures regarding courtesy also violated Monterey City Code section 14.02(w) willful violation of any of the provisions of the ordinances, resolutions or any rules, regulations or policies which may be prescribed by the department or City. (JX 5.)
When Balthrop chose to make the lewd comment and gesture about Gan, he also violated Monterey City Code sections 14.02(d) failure to perform work in a satisfactory manner and (e) inefficiency or inexcusable neglect of duty, i.e., failure to perform duties required by the employee’s position because he did not use the proper chain of command to report any frustration he may have had with Gan, which is what a professional and courteous City worker would have done. (JX 5.)
Balthrop, however, is guilty of far more than only making a lewd comment and gesture in the workplace. Balthrop never fully admitted to his misconduct or took full responsibility for it.

Instead, he lied during an interview in which he was directed to be truthful, even after being confronted with the testimony of two separate witnesses who stated that he did engage in the conduct that he was denying. Nor did he make any subsequent attempt to try to correct his falsehoods after the interview ended. At the arbitration hearing, he continued to lie. Even now, after the arbitration hearing, he still has never taken responsibility for his actions. This is a violation of Monterey City Code section 14.02(h) dishonesty, involving employment. (JX 5.) Clearly, the City was justified in its determination that, based on Balthrop’s dishonesty during the interview, he was no longer able to be trusted.

It is imperative for the City to have a high degree of trust in Public Works Department employees who have access to a highly secure military facility. The City relies on all of its employees, especially those who have access to a military facility, to be courteous and professional AR 520
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 524, Packet Page 769 when they are in uniform representing the City to maintain the reputation of City employees and, in this case, so that the City’s contract with the facility is not jeopardized. The City simply cannot have a person like Balthrop in that position if it cannot trust him, and Balthrop has now proven that he cannot be trusted. (130:10-131:3.) The City had no choice but to terminate Balthrop’s employment. The City asks that the Arbitrator respect its managerial decision in this regard, and not recommend overturning this discipline.

C. Balthrop Has Not Shown Any Grounds for Overturning His Termination

1. It Does Not Matter Whether the Lewd Comment and Gesture Occurred During a Work Break
Balthrop may argue that he was on a work break when he arrived at the Subway restaurant that day in December of 2022. Whether or not he was on a break is irrelevant because he was at his workplace, the Presidio of Monterey, in the presence of members of the public and representing the City in his City uniform. Regardless of whether he was on a break or not, his conduct was unprofessional, discourteous, and egregious. Any argument he may make about being on a break is undermined by his own testimony that he went into the Subway restaurant to check on flickering lights and was therefore working and not on a break.

2. The Conduct Was Egregious
Balthrop may argue that he only said “Aysl can suck it” and that he did not make any obscene gesture when he said those words. His efforts to minimize his conduct are unavailing because two independent and unbiased witnesses described his actual behavior more credibly.

Balthrop’s actual conduct was egregious and offensive to a reasonable person and both Lieutenant Sanchez and Fraide were in fact offended by it. It is made even more egregious that his lewd comment and gesture was directed at a member of the public. Lieutenant Sanchez testified that he would not have wanted his own daughter to have to witness something so unprofessional and humiliating in the workplace or in public.

3. Balthrop Lied to the Investigator
Balthrop will also argue that he did not lie to the investigator during his investigative AR 521
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 525, Packet Page 770 interview but rather that he just failed to remember the incident due to stress and sleep apnea. This justification is suspect because it was only mentioned by Balthrop for the first time during the arbitration hearing. It is also suspect because he provided no proof of it at the hearing. Given that his doctor provided him with a note indicating that he could not touch his genitals, it begs the question why he could not have gotten a doctor’s note to document these new (but clearly fabricated) maladies. In any event, Balthrop continued to lie after the investigative interview at his Skelly hearing and at the arbitration hearing when he denied that he said “tell Aysl she can suck it” and he made a V motion with his arms towards his genitals and tilted his hips upwards.

4. Termination Was Justified
Finally, Balthrop will argue that his termination was not justified because a lesser form of discipline should have been imposed, short of termination, and in light of his record of no discipline over the course of 23 years of employment, his commendations and his positive review in 2013.

However, his commendations and his positive review from 11 years ago are not relevant, as this arbitrator noted during the hearing, to his conduct at issue here. (156:9-158:6.) The real issue is his conduct in December of 2022. Public Works Director Renny determined that this single act was egregious and severe enough to justify his termination, in light of his dishonesty and failure to take responsibility, his efforts to continually minimize his conduct, his utter failure to acknowledge how Lieutenant Sanchez and Fraide were offended by it, and the fact that he had taken numerous sexual harassment courses in the past, but these still did not have any impact on his behavior. The City was justified in terminating him for all of these reasons.

VIII. CONCLUSION
For the reasons discussed herein, Balthrop’s termination should be upheld. Balthrop has engaged in significant and repeated misconduct, including both making a lewd comment and gesture in the presence of two members of the public in the workplace, lying repeatedly about doing so, and has utterly failed to take any responsibility for his actions or even admit to them despite irrefutable proof. The City simply cannot have such a dishonest employee continue to work for it, especially in a position where trust is of the utmost importance. Accordingly, Balthrop’s AR 522
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 526, Packet Page 771 termination is more than justified – it is necessary.

Dated: June 6, 2024 SLOAN SAKAI YEUNG & WONG LLP
By:

ARCELIA HURTADO
Attorneys for Employer

CITY OF MONTEREY
AR 523
Council Regular Meeting, 10/15/2024, Item No. 9., Item Page 527, Packet Page 772

PROOF OF SERVICE
I, the undersigned, am a resident of the State of California, over the age of eighteen years, and not a party to the within action. My residence or business address is 2200 Powell Street, Suite 450, Emeryville, California 94608.

On the date below, I served POST-HEARING BRIEF OF CITY OF MONTEREY by electronic mail to the address listed below.

Andrea Dooley
[email protected]
This Brief is being served with the understanding that Arbitrator Andrea Dooley will serve the document by electronic mail to opposing counsel to the address listed below.

Garrett Porter
Mastagni Holstedt, A.P.C.
1912 I Street
Sacramento, CA 95811
[email protected]
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct.

Monterey City CouncilOctober 15, 2024

Monterey City Council
October 15, 2024