Pages 1 - 41
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
Before The Honorable William H. Orrick, Judge
DELPHINE ALLEN, et al., )
)
Plaintiffs, )
)
VS. ) NO. C 00-04599 WHO
)
CITY OF OAKLAND, et al., )
)
Defendants. )
_______________________________)
San Francisco, California
Thursday, October 13, 2022
TRANSCRIPT OF REMOTE ZOOM VIDEO CONFERENCE PROCEEDINGS
APPEARANCES VIA ZOOM:
For the Plaintiffs:
THE LAW OFFICES OF JOHN L. BURRIS
Airport Corporate Centre
7677 Oakport Street, Suite 1120
Oakland, California 94621
BY: JOHN L. BURRIS, ATTORNEY AT LAW
LAW OFFICES OF JAMES B. CHANIN
3050 Shattuck Avenue
Berkeley, California 94705
BY: JAMES B. CHANIN, ATTORNEY AT LAW
(APPEARANCES CONTINUED ON FOLLOWING PAGE)
REPORTED REMOTELY BY: Ana Dub, RDR, RMR, CRR, CCRR, CRG, CCG CSR No. 7445, Official U.S. Reporter
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 1 of 41 Attachment A 2APPEARANCES VIA ZOOM: (CONTINUED) For the Defendants: OFFICE OF OAKLAND CITY ATTORNEY One Frank Ogawa Plaza, Sixth Floor Oakland, California 94612 BY: BRIGID S. MARTIN, DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY For the Intervenor: RAINS LUCIA STERN ST. PHALLE & SILVER, PC 2300 Contra Costa Boulevard, Suite 500 Pleasant Hill, California 94523 BY: ROCKNE A. LUCIA, JR., ATTORNEY AT LAW Also Present: Mayor Libby Schaaf Chief LeRonne Armstrong Assistant Chief Darren Allison Deputy Chief Clifford Wong Captain Kevin Kaney 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 2 of 41 3Thursday - October 13, 2022 3:47 p.m. P R O C E E D I N G S ---o0o--- THE CLERK: A reminder to those who don't know already:We do ask that you not stream these proceedings out live ormake any audio or visual recording of the proceedings,including screenshots.And I believe we are set to get underway in CaseNumber 00-4599, Allen, et al. vs. City of Oakland, et al,although I don't see the judge. So let me see what ishappening. I thought I did and then I didn't.(Pause in proceedings.) THE CLERK: All right. We have decided that the easiestway around this is to just have the Court appear in the well atthe microphones. So, right here.THE COURT: This one here?THE CLERK: Yes.THE COURT: All right. Good afternoon, everybody. Canyou hear me?THE CLERK: Let me get this on.There. Okay.THE COURT: All right. We're going to try this again.Can you all hear me?MR. CHANIN: Yes, we can.MS. MARTIN: Yes, Your Honor. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 3 of 41 4THE COURT: All right. So, my apologies to you. Mycriminal calendar ran late, and then we have apparently toomany Zoom cameras on or not working or something. But I amglad to see you all.So during the past several CMCs, I've tried to focus theparties on the issues of particular importance to me in theoversight of the Oakland Police Department.Number one is reducing racial disparities in vehicle,pedestrian, and bicycle stops with continued use ofintelligence-led policing.The second was implementing Vision and its associateddashboards in a technologically straightforward way so that thetools are used effectively in the risk management process.Number three was recruiting officers who reflect thediversity, in terms of gender, race, ethnicity, and other, ofthe City of Oakland.Number four was ensuring that all uses of force andinstances of potential misconduct are accurately reported andrigorously investigated within set timeliness standards.And, fifth, to ensure that disciplinary decisions and thedisciplinary process are fair and equitable.And I just want to start by saying, I'm glad that itappears to me that the Police Department is meeting the firstthree of those goals in a way that seems sustainable.I'm also happy that the Police Department is meeting the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 4 of 41 5timeliness standards for uses of force and instances ofpotential misconduct and that most of the NSA tasks remain incompliance. The body-worn cameras issue seems to have beenresolved with the cameras all being rolled out.And it's worth noting that all of this comes at what Iknow has been a very challenging time for the City of Oakland,given the surge of violence and the attrition in the force.So I just want to start there and then pivot, because thework is not done. I've been informed about the investigationsthat relate to two internal OPD investigations and itsdiscipline process that the Compliance Director Monitor hascalled "deeply troubling."I know that the investigations are ongoing. I'm going towithhold judgment until they're completed. But the informationthat I do know is concerning.I want to underscore for the parties now how importantfull and timely cooperation with the requests of the outsidelaw firm handling the investigations is. I'm very hopeful thatthe investigations will be completed well in advance of ournext CMC, which I'm going to set for January 10th at 2:00 p.m.Actually, we'll make it January 10th at 3:30 p.m. That can'thappen without very timely responses from OPD.I've directed the Compliance Director Monitor to advise meif there's any lack of cooperation by the City orthe Department with these investigations; and if there are any 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 5 of 41 6roadblocks, I'm going to order that the outside law firm beanswerable to the Compliance Director Monitor directly.I also note the debate about whether Task 45 is incompliance. I will note that the Police Department has takenreal steps to analyze the issues. What I'm interested in ishow OPD will address the racial disparities shown in thedisciplinary data, such as black officers being more likely toreceive suspensions and less likely to receive counseling thantheir white counterparts. So I'll look forward to hearing alittle bit more about that.So before I go to the parties, I do have a few questions,as I'm wont to have, and I would like to start with the Chief.Chief, good afternoon.CHIEF ARMSTRONG: Good afternoon, Your Honor.THE COURT: It's good to see you.CHIEF ARMSTRONG: Good to see you, sir.THE COURT: Would you give me your current assessment ofwhere we stand on each of those five goals that I laid out atthe beginning of the CMC, where you're expecting improvementand how sustainable you think the Department's compliance is?CHIEF ARMSTRONG: Well, Your Honor, I'd first like to saythat the work of the Oakland Police Department continues to beongoing, and I am proud that we have really focused our effortson compliance in a way that I haven't seen before. And I saythat because the things that you brought before us in our last 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 6 of 41 7appearance before you, we went back and took very seriously.When it came to the completion of policies, when it came to theissuing of a survey, those things we made a priority and gotdone.I'll say that from our standpoint, I think our use offorce review process has definitely improved. We have puttogether a review panel of commanders that actually dospot-checks and random checks to ensure that we are catchingthings within our use of force investigative review process.One of the things that we've learned, Your Honor, is thatwe have a fairly young command staff. 50 percent of ourcommand staff have been promoted in the last year. But that'srequired Assistant Chief Allison and I to really focus ondeveloping those commanders to better understand the thoroughlevel of review that we expect.So we've had our Training Division begin to providespecific training for review of use of force and IADinvestigations for supervisors and commanders. We've also puttogether an IAD review case group, essentially command staff,that also conducts spot-checks. And so when we talk about our ability to be sustainable,I believe that the processes that we've set in place will helpensure that sustainability continues.I think the effort that we partner with thePolice Commission and their OIG has been helpful as well. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 7 of 41 8She's been involved in conversations with our Bureau of RiskManagement about continuing to perform audits as well.I also think, Your Honor, that the culture ofthe Department is rooted in compliance now. Nearly 70 percentof our officers have been here less than ten years; so all theyknow is compliance with these high standards that we have atthe Oakland Police Department. And I think if you look at the body-worn camera issue,I think it's one in which we have really moved forward on.I think today Assistant Chief Allison will present numbers thatwill issue around 250,000 activations. The Department takes itvery seriously that these cameras are used every time they havean interaction and that they're actually activated on time. Wehave internal processes to better assess whether these thingsare done. And we've held several people accountable when thesecameras haven't been activated. And so I think it's somethingthat we take very seriously.Our Stop Data Program continues to be one of thenationally recognized programs across the country.Our intelligence-led policing is leading to a huge focuson gun violence. We've recovered 27 percent more firearms thanwe recovered at the same time last year. So our focus has beenon those that are engaged in violence, and I believe thatfocused effort will continue. Although we now, you know, have begun to focus more on 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 8 of 41 9traffic safety, it still will be intelligence led, focused onareas, working with our Department of Transportation of givingus specific locations where we call "high-injury networks"where we want to make stops that actually make Oakland safer. So everything that we're doing is intelligence led andfocused. I think our command staff are all prepared tocontinue to maintain this high level of accountability, andit's actually a part of the culture of the Department.I think one of the things that we did that I think willprove helpful in the future, in preparing future leaders inthis department, is that we're putting commanders on ourassessment teams so that they can personally get the experienceof reviewing use of force, IAD complaints, and policydevelopment. So those are key things that we're doing,Your Honor.And then our Vision system is fully implemented. We arefully in use of our Vision system. Our external dashboards areworking. Our internal dashboards are working. We have -- ourITD Unit, the City's ITD Unit, has a staff that is supportingthe Department. That staff is actually able to now maintainthose dashboards for us. Previously, we did have some issueswith ensuring that these dashboards were maintained on anongoing basis. We've now fixed that.The only need that we have now is to secure some technicalassistance from the company on how we allow supervisors and 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 9 of 41 10commanders to be limited to their actual staff that theyreview. So I think it doesn't prevent us from doing any of thework. The systems are working. And I'm confident with the changes that we've made to ourdiscipline process, that we are issuing fair and equitablediscipline. We've anonymized all of our discipline processesas well as our case processes. So essentially, we don't talkabout race or gender in those meetings. Everything'sanonymized. And I think the analysis that, I think, Bridgid Martinwill speak to at some point will speak to the work that we'vedone over the last several months with Dr. Grossman and heranalysis of our data that shows that we haven't seen disparityin our 2020 and 2021 data.Also during the survey, I think one of the interestingthings that we learned is that some people questioned fairness,but we believe that's attributed to the fact that people don'tlike discipline, Your Honor. That's natural. But I think itis about the organization holding people accountable.So one of the things that we did is that we mandated bypolicy that captains meet with every officer or member who'sgiven discipline to ensure that they understand why they weresustained for a complaint and why they received a certain levelof discipline. And so we hope that that makes the process muchmore transparent and people to be much more open to our 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 10 of 41 11discipline process and at least trust the process.And then lastly, Your Honor, I feel good about ourrecruiting efforts. We have been making tremendous successwith the hiring of women. We've had a very diverse class overthe last two classes that we have graduated. They've been someof the most diverse classes that we've seen in years, with bothmulticultural and multiple genders; we have women as well as --a significant number of women, up to about 20 percent, which isgood for us. So we'll continue to focus our efforts. Wejoined the 30 by 30 Initiative, which is the Department'scommitment to hire 30 percent women by the year 2030, and weare continuing to work on that effort of our recruiting ofwomen. So, Your Honor, I feel like we are making a lot ofprogress. I know there's more work to do. I'm also concernedabout the cases that are being reviewed. But as a result ofthat, we've even stricted our processes even more to ensurethat we are doing better internal reviews of IADinvestigations.THE COURT: All right. Well, so that's a very positiveand impressive survey of everything that's going on, Chief.I am glad to hear you say that there is -- institutionalreform requires all of those policies being in place andrigorously followed. It requires the strong leadership ofpeople up and down the chain. And as people leave -- I'm 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 11 of 41 12looking at the Mayor right now. I'm not sure that I'm going tosee her at the next session that we have -- but the commitmentfrom the top to make sure that constitutional policing andtransparency and accountability and integrity, all of thethings that are wrapped up in a positive culture, continue overtime. And that's long after the Court and some of the playerswho are on this screen are gone. That's going to be thechallenge for the Department.So thank you very much for your review.I'm interested in talking to Captain Kaney next, if Icould.CAPTAIN KANEY: Good afternoon, Your Honor.THE COURT: Good afternoon. So, welcome. I'm not surethat we have met before, but I understand that you're now incharge of Internal Affairs.CAPTAIN KANEY: I am.THE COURT: And one of the very positive things that wasreported is, the timeliness in IAD investigations now seemsto -- first of all, you're in compliance, which is great. Howare you going to maintain that?CAPTAIN KANEY: For timeliness, for the Task 2?So right now, we do have some newer sergeants that arecoming through. And so to give them a little more time intheir review process, we have pushed out our 30-day normaltimelines when a case is due to IAD and we pushed it out to 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 12 of 41 1345 days. That gives us a little more of a cushion if a newersergeant is missing something.The other thing about the new sergeants is, next week wehave an IAD training course being put on by Third Degree thatis going to put -- I think we're at 35 supervisors goingthrough this IAD training course, which should help thecompleteness for Task 5, as well as for our timelines, so thatwhen a case comes into our DLI coordinators and it's complete,it makes the process a lot faster and a lot easier and we don'thave to push back for more investigation. And so that is veryhelpful with our newer sergeants and our newer reviewers.But the policies and the practices that we've had thathave been set up for quite a while now seem to have beenworking, and we are continuing to push on with those timelinesand with those, you know, benchmarks for our -- to make surethat our cases are completed within our 180 time frame.THE COURT: And is it your intent that these steps willremain past the sustainability period, that this is going to bean ongoing policy and practice?CAPTAIN KANEY: Yeah, absolutely. I think that it's beenworking. We have been -- with the processes we've been doing,reviewing our -- we do a 180 report every week which tells uswhich cases are getting close to our 180 date, and I reviewthose with the lieutenants of Internal Affairs, and I ask aboutevery case that's within 21 days. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 13 of 41 14And I think that these processes that have been set up andthat have been working so far will continue to work andcontinue to keep us in timeliness for our investigations.THE COURT: Great. Well, thank you. And thank you foryour efforts in this.CAPTAIN KANEY: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Let me go to Deputy Chief Wong.DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: Good afternoon, Your Honor.THE COURT: Afternoon. How are you?DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: Very well, sir. How are you?THE COURT: I'm very well.The stop data story is, obviously, as the Chief wassaying, it's one of the -- it's a crown jewel, if not the crownjewel, of the reforms. And I want to just find out from youhow the Department intends to ensure that the risk managementmeetings, which are critical to the ongoing success in thisarea, are going to continue once oversight is no more fromthe Court and transferred to the Police Commission.DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: Well, aside from the fact that we haveingrained that process into the Department or into ourorganizational culture, it's already in policy. I'm sure youremember DGO R-01, our risk management policy, which containsall the requirements that these meetings be held. In fact, ifa meeting is not held, it has to be approved by the Chief toskip one. So that process is in place. We've been following 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 14 of 41 15it.Our Risk Analysis Unit actually keeps track of thosemeetings. They schedule them. Not only the area meetings, butalso the Department-wide meetings. So they keep track of everysingle one of those. And the Office of Internal Accountabilitywill be the body that keeps an eye on it.Of course, all that lies under BRM. So ultimately, I ormy successor will be accountable to make sure that thatcontinues on as an ongoing process.THE COURT: And how are you monitoring the quality as wellas the quantity of those meetings?DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: The area-wide meetings that only --have the Deputy Chief involved. So if an Area 1 meetingoccurs, obviously, the captain, lieutenants, and the sergeantswill all be there. But the Deputy Chief will oversee it tomake sure that the discussion is substantial and of quality. And when those meetings then roll into the area-widemeeting, it's, once again, reviewed with all the deputy chiefs,including the Chief and the Assistant Chief. So there's --anything that's missed in the lower-level meetings will becovered in the bigger group setting.THE COURT: Okay. So this may be a question that I'mgoing to hear more from -- in fact, I'm confident I will --from Ms. Martin. But with respect to the Department's mostrecent analysis on discipline, I was concerned about black 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 15 of 41 16officers being more likely than their white counterparts to besustained for discovered violations and, also, that they weremore likely to receive suspensions and less likely to receivecounseling than their white counterparts.How do you explain that, those findings, and what plansare there to address them?DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: Referring back to the 2019 DLIfindings that we did some extra work on, we were not able toactually get to the root cause of the issue. You know, as withall social science type of research, you can get a goodindication of what you're looking at, but you can never trulyget to the root cause of it.But what we did identify were some essential areas --potential appears where -- sorry.MR. BURRIS: I'm sorry.THE COURT: I think Mr. Burris was trying to interrupt youin your answer there.(Laughter.) THE COURT: Go ahead.DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: My headphones are a little too loud.So, actually, what we're able to do is determine thatthere were some areas where we can make some improvements, suchas self-identified or internally identified allegations.Right?So we know, like -- for example, profanity; how you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 16 of 41 17determine what's a discovered allegation or just profanity whenyou're, you know, sitting by yourself in a car or if you're infront of a citizen. The way you determine if that's anallegation or not has a little bit of variability in it. Sowe're going to focus in on those and try to get them moreconsistent among our supervisors.The hard part about the study is, we couldn't figure out,of the allegations, if they came from within or if they weremade by citizens outside, because that's not something that wastracked in the older cases. So to remedy that situation, weactually added fields into Vision to track that so, goingforward, we can actually see if the complaint came from withinor externally; we can see if the allegation was one of theoriginal allegations or if it was discovered by aninvestigator.And if we're able to track that data, we can now tell ifthere's any kind of, you know, bias or disparity created fromwithin or by the investigators or by even the, you know, DLIstaff reviewing these cases.So that's how we're going to address the issue goingforward. And we're going to keep an eye on it and study it,because we don't see the numbers right now in 2020, in 2021,but we don't want to see it come back in the future either.THE COURT: All right. Okay. Thank you. I appreciateit. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 17 of 41 18And now Assistant Chief Allison.ASSISTANT CHIEF ALLISON: Good afternoon, Your Honor.THE COURT: Good afternoon. I'm glad I don't have toharass you about the body-worn cameras.Tell me, how are the new cameras functioning? Whatissues, if any, do you have at this point?ASSISTANT CHIEF ALLISON: So, Your Honor, the cameras arefunctioning well. We are a hundred percent rolled out with thebody-worn -- new body-worn cameras through Axon. So everyfield officer has the new cameras in play. They -- there's alot of good feedback on the quality and usability and ease andeven the review process of the cameras in the system itself.One of the challenges we encountered with the cameras iswith some uniform types -- we have a wool uniform as well asour utility uniform, so a little thicker, as well as outercarrier vests that we can wear. And in some cases, the magnetthat holds the camera in place can become dislodged, when itcomes to thicker uniforms. And so we are purchasing new hooks and adhesions to keepthe camera in place. And for those that are experiencingtrouble of holding their camera in place, you know, it gettingdislodged during struggles or whatnot, we have equipment to beable to give to those officers to replace that holder, so tospeak.So from the camera systems, they are working well. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 18 of 41 19They're easier to annotate; so we can find mile markers for useof force investigations or other internal audits or reviews.And, again, the feedback has been positive.THE COURT: Good. And what's the status of revisions tothe body-worn camera policy?ASSISTANT CHIEF ALLISON: Your Honor, we have completedthe ad hoc development process with the ad hocPolice Commission. That will then move into the next phase,which is presentation to the Commission; and then, certainly,if there's any modifications or changes, we can make those. Ifthere are no modifications and it's voted to move forward, thenwe can move to the stakeholder review piece of it.THE COURT: All right. So do you think that'll be done bythe next CMC?ASSISTANT CHIEF ALLISON: I am anticipation --anticipating completion by the next CMC.THE COURT: Great. Great.And then let me ask you. The Compliance Director Monitorhas noted some recent use of force incidents in which hebelieved that a supervisor should have caught violations ofDepartment policy. In three cases, those incidents wereeventually sent over to IAD. Two of the cases have now beencompleted. There have been some sustained findings.What are you doing to ensure that first-line supervisorsand their commanders are more vigilant in their reviews of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 19 of 41 20these cases?ASSISTANT CHIEF ALLISON: Thank you for that, Your Honor.As I've stated before, within our organization, I see thefoundational principles as being policy, training andexperience, and accountability, particularly for oursupervisors.So certainly, we have our policies. One of our morerecent policies when it came to use of force was K3, which waspublished last December and trained and rolled out in January.We also implemented a new Type 32 policy that went into effectfor reporting in division around June.So now that we have a policy foundation, we certainly needto ensure that our staff, particularly our supervisors, arecommanders, are properly trained.We recognized that there were some areas -- new areas ofpolicy requirements when it came to use of force that weoutlined in K3, Use of Force Policy, when it came to languagearound active and assaultive resistance; particularly, also,uses of intermediate use of force specifically around ourtasers, our electronic control weapon equipment. And so we rolled out training in the spring for staffaround the use of tasers. We then rolled out trainingspecifically around assaultive and active resistance, again, tomake sure that it was crystallized on the use of intermediateforce. And then we are in process of rolling out training on 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 20 of 41 21how to be a good reviewer and investigator when it comes to useof force investigations.On top of that, we recognize, with our new supervisors,that they not only needed classroom training, but they neededexperiential training. And as I've reported out before, we dohave our field training process. But what we are seeing is,going to singular supervisors during that process wasn'tgetting a far and wide exposure to that training. And so weare now rotating among supervisors so they have an opportunityto engage in investigations while supervised, to learn a littlebit better. And at the same time, for our commander training, not onlydid they roll out the review training that's in process; we areincorporating them into our inspection teams, which not onlyhelps us look from an auditing perspective, but gets themexposure to what we see as deficient investigations that needimprovement, as well as quality investigations that can besustained through the organization so they could go back totheir divisions, back to their commands and look for thoseareas in real-time chain of reviews.And then certainly, we do have ongoing command-leveltraining through the FBI National Academy, the SeniorManagement Institute for Police Executives, to develop ourcommanders in the future, again, not only to be good leaders,but to be good reviewers, to know the best practices that are 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 21 of 41 22not only in policy, but constitutional practices throughout theorganization.THE COURT: Great. You will not have the backupeventually, and I'm not saying it's going to be immediate, butyou won't have the backup of the Independent Monitoring Team todo this really fundamental and important work. So I'm glad tohear all of those things, and continued focus on it will begreat.Thank you.ASSISTANT CHIEF ALLISON: Thank you, Your Honor.THE COURT: So let me go now to Mr. Chanin and Mr. Burrisfor their comments on where things stand.MR. CHANIN: Thank you, Your Honor.The Monitor has moved Task 5 from "In Compliance" to"Deferred Compliance."We have no real knowledge as to what this case is about,and we feel obligated to protect the due process rights of allinvolved until this matter is resolved.The Monitor has found that the information developed inthe OPD's internal investigation and discipline process is, asyou say, Your Honor, deeply troubling. Accordingly, we alsoare concerned about this matter.The defendants have stated that Task 5 should not havebeen deferred on the basis that these two cases have not beeninvestigated yet; in other words, the Monitor should just 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 22 of 41 23ignore these two cases and we should move on to thesustainability period and perhaps even finish it and dismissthis case with this matter hanging out here -- out there.We choose to wait for these findings to be made and todiscuss them at an appropriate time. We remind theCity of Oakland that we are in the sustainability period, whichis scheduled to end in eight months. We simply must have timeto evaluate this problem and see how it impacts thesustainability period.Accordingly, we must agree with the Monitor's decision todefer Task 5. And as we have stated in our brief, we reservethe right to ask the Court to modify the sustainability periodor, if necessary, to ask that it be revoked, depending on whatthe finding is.Now, moving on to Task 45, OPD believes it is incompliance with that task as well. The Monitor has determinedthat it should be in partial compliance. We agree withthe Monitor's assessment.The OPD has gone into detail on how it can discover andmonitor Task 45 problems on its own. And it is totally truethat they have come a long way on this issue. In fact,I believe if they follow their own recommendations in thereport they just published and set up a plan to implement therecommendations that they have, in fact, recommendedthemselves, that we may be able to attain compliance by the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 23 of 41 24next case management conference.Of course, the Monitoring team and the plaintiffs'attorneys will have to examine this document and approve it, aswill the Court. But the OPD has Dr. Grossman, Dr. Monin, andDr. Eberhardt to assist them. And I think if they use thesepeople, particularly the Stanford team that has specificallyreached out to OPD, they can do a satisfactory report andattain compliance.Some of the problems identified in the OPD Office ofInternal Accountability, Discipline, Equity, and InternalProcedural Justice Report, which had no plan of action orcorrection, include: The report does not deal with their ownfinding that African Americans and Latinos were overcharged.The report admits that black officers are more likely to haveone allegation sustained than any other race. The City hasmade no real response to this, both in its report andsubsequently. The report did not deal with the fact that fiveout of six officers in OPD feel the disciplinary process is notfair and based on more who you know and your rank than anyother ethical standard.Now, the Chief has just said, in effect, that this is sourgrapes; and he may, in fact, be right. But there's no point inmaking this finding if you're not going to do anything about itor say what you think about it. That's not okay, at least inmy opinion. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 24 of 41 25In short, the recent report did identify real problems inthe OPD. But that is not the problem. The problem is thatthere was no action or proposed action on many of the mostimportant issues that were identified.And, Your Honor, in closing, I'd like to say that I wasrecently on a ride-along. I am very impressed with the job,the very difficult job, that the police have, especially inEast Oakland where I was. They performed it with compassionand humanity, and I was impressed. It's certainly a long wayfrom the point they were when I started. And I just want tothrow that in there as a compliment to the Oakland PoliceDepartment.Thank you.THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Chanin.Mr. Burris?MR. BURRIS: Thank you, Your Honor.I only have a couple of points to follow up on, a coupleof issues that I traditionally follow up on. And this goes tothe non-dispatch stops, given that I'm seeing some changes inthe percentages. But two things. I'm noting that the number is fairlyconsistently high for African Americans in terms of the highestnumber of stops, which is troubling inasmuch as the AfricanAmerican population in the city is reducing significantly,almost daily, but the numbers for non-dispatch stops don't seem 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 25 of 41 26to be dropping, seems to me, a proportionate rate. I also seewhere the non-dispatch stops are increasing for the Hispanicpopulation. So I'm wondering if there's any kind of drill-down on thatby the Department and the Risk Management Committee, to see ifyou can attribute any particular events or conduct to anyparticular officer on either one of these, because I do thinkthat, you know, it's troubling to me that the non-dispatchrates for African Americans are still pretty significant. Andthat question is: What kind of stops are those, aside from, Iassume, traffic violations? But that's an area that I have some concern about, eventhough, on balance, we're a long ways from where we were, andI'm really pleased about that. A lot of good work has takenplace, particularly when I've seen drill-down and talking aboutintelligent-led policing. But non-dispatch stops is an important area because that'swhere people are being stopped, and an officer hasarbitrariness or great discretion to make those stops. So I'dlike to see, before we finish, whether or not there's someconsistency in terms of a reduction in the non-dispatch stops.Then, next, if you go to consistency of discipline, Icertainly have been troubled, okay, by the -- and the Court hasmade reference to it earlier, in terms of the abilities anddiscoverabilities -- discovering of new complaints after 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 26 of 41 27starting and the impact that it's had on the African Americansat a different rate than it has on other ethnic groups.That is significant, although I do and have heard whatthe City, the defendants, have said about it. And it may bethat they're at a point where you can only reconcile and narrowit down, in one sense, but not really necessarily find aconsistent path in cause and effect of it. That may be.I have certainly been impressed by the efforts that havebeen made by the committees to try to address itself to this.And it may be, futuristically, that this issue may have beencurtailed and, certainly, the clear direction for the futurehad been set forth. I surely hope so, because I really have astrong belief -- and everyone should recognize that -- thatwhen -- that the punishment, the discipline that one receivesin part of their careers can affect how they progress throughthe Department, and that affects all kind of efforts on theirpart.So for me, it looks like a real effort is being made.We're a long ways from where we started out when this issuefirst came forward three or four years ago. And I think we'reclose, but I hope that by the next hearing, the issues that wewere concerned about in 2019 have been put to bed and thatthose issues will not be forward -- not something that we'llhave to worry about in the future, particularly, as we said,after we're gone. We'd like to know that it's being done now 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 27 of 41 28and corrected and put on the right path. So that's just myfeeling.So otherwise, I think that a lot of progress is beingmade. I'm very happy about some of the programs that havedeveloped. One which caught my attention was themanagement-level liaison committee. It's one of the firstthings we talked about at the very, very beginning. I thinkRocky and people will -- Jim will remember this. And to seethat it's still functioning and the public defenders and theD.A. and the court system are working together, at leastworking together in a sense that they're identifying misconductwhen it occurs, is a very positive statement. And that's the kind of long-term sustainability thatI think we're looking to have here.So, thank you.THE COURT: Great. Thank you, Mr. Burris.And, Deputy Chief Wong, I'll look forward to your responseto Mr. Burris on the non-dispatch stops stats in January. Thatwould be an interesting response.So, Ms. Martin, I don't know how you want to organize thepresentation, whether you want Mayor Schaaf to go or you. Butobviously, one of the issues that I think you're going to beaddressing is the second issue that Mr. Burris raised.MS. MARTIN: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. I think itwould make sense for me to go first while we're discussing the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 28 of 41 29disparity study work and some of the findings so that I canaddress that now, and then go to Mayor Schaaf.THE COURT: Great.MS. MARTIN: So to address Your Honor's questions firstabout the disparity study work, I just think we ought to getclear and be on the same page, starting, that the only placethat we have found statistically significant disparities thusfar, meaningful differences in the data, were in those 2019 DLIinvestigations.And so when Mr. Chanin is also talking about blackofficers being more likely to have more than one sustainedcase, that was in the 2019 DLIs. It's on page 16 of thereport.And the reason that we drilled down on that and foundthese other differences is because we were trying to find outif there were correlating factors that maybe rose to the levelof contributing enough that we could call them causal factors.We couldn't, but these were correlating factors.So we did find things like black officers had more thanone sustained case in the 2019 DLIs. We also correlated thesustained findings in DLIs with discovered violations. So thatwas our most significant finding, is that black officers, inthose 2019 DLIs, they were much more likely to have adiscovered violation added to their initial allegations. Andit's common sense and supported by our follow-up work that, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 29 of 41 30actually, discovered violations are more often sustained. Andthat's because if it's first seen by an investigator, it'slikely that what they're seeing is likely misconduct. So itwould make sense that if you have more discovered violations,you also have more sustained violations there.And this is something that the correlation is what we'regoing to pick up and run with moving forward and looking inplaces where, even if we haven't seen statistically significantdifferences and racial disparities, which we haven't yet, if wedo see that or even if we don't, we will also be looking at thediscovered violations and seeing if there are differencesthere. And so while that might not be creating a disparity,that's an area that we can look to, to see if there's a way toremove some of the discretion.And removing discretion in a lot of these bias studiesthat have been done, finding where discretion is and removingdiscretion, if possible and appropriate, is sometimes the onlyway to really have an effective impact on, particularly,unconscious bias.So that's -- I just wanted to be clear about what we foundin 2019 and what we're not finding necessarily now.And then in light of Your Honor's statements and some ofthe things we've heard from plaintiffs' counsel, I think italso makes sense for me to focus on what we are looking at, nowand going forward, and what the Court and the parties might 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 30 of 41 31expect from the City as we move forward.So I have one specific item that addresses Task 45 thatI think will be topical here, and then another more generalitem.THE COURT: Okay.MS. MARTIN: But first, so, likely the most significantstep that we have moving forward involving Task 45 is going tobe the Department's development of what's now called, in theOffice of Internal Accountability documents, as the "workingmethodology."And that's going to be, as stated in those reports,maneuvered into a more concise, final either flow chart orrecipe-type document so that anyone who wants to do a disparitystudy on OPD's data, including OPD, because the Department isrequired by policy now to be doing this on an ongoing basis,can follow that recipe and do that analysis, not only toidentify if there are statistically significant disparities butaddress those disparities.Now, the Department has discussed the importance of doingthis with both the Monitoring Team and the Stanfordresearchers, and the two use different terms to describe it.Dr. Klofas, on the Monitoring Team, will call it a methodology.Dr. Monin, from Stanford, will refer to it as a playbook. Butin any event, we all agree that this is a significant item thatneeds to be completed moving forward. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 31 of 41 32And at this point, there isn't really a debate thatthe Department has a solid, written, recipe-style methodologythat it now uses to pull reliable data sets and assess the datato identify meaningful or statistically significantdisparities. We have that down to a science. And we're able to get there by working, last year, withthe Stanford team to pull the reliable data sets. That'saround the time that we -- when we tried to replicate the 2019Hillard-Heintze study, we learned that the data was not pulledreliably. So we figured out how to make sure we could alwaysdo that moving forward.And moving forward from that, we need to now add to thatsolid identification methodology a second piece, and that's:What do we do if we see a statistically significant disparity?So we need to join those together.And once we have that, then we will have sort of theworking playbook, working final methodology going forward sothat we can not only identify solidly and with trust whetherthere is a disparity, a meaningful disparity, but then whatsteps are we going to take to address that and eradicate it andimpact it effectively.Another thing just to reference is, when we're talkingabout meaningful differences, I did note that when we talkabout differences in discipline, particularly more blackofficers receiving suspensions, that is something that 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 32 of 41 33the Department has acknowledged and is continuing to look into.But at this point, there hasn't been any findings that that'sstatistically significant, or meaningful differences in thatdata. But we did see it; we do acknowledge it; we've reportedit. We want to be transparent about it. But at this point,those data sets are very small. So it is something that we'rekeeping our eye on moving forward.And it is certainly my sincere hope that once we have thissort of down to a specific science, not only the identificationpiece, but the next steps to address if we do find disparities,that no one will disagree that we're not in substantialcompliance with Task 45.It's also --THE COURT: So let me -- may I stop you there for just asec?MS. MARTIN: Of course, Your Honor.THE COURT: I assume that those looking-forward,going-forward steps that you're describing are ones whichyou're discussing with Dr. Monin or Dr. -- whoever you'rediscussing them with at Stanford, and also Dr. Klofas; thatthose are -- your goal is to have everybody on that same pageas to what needs to happen, what the recipe needs to be, andhow this is going to work on a going-forward basis. Is thatright?MS. MARTIN: Yes, Your Honor. That's exactly what we did 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 33 of 41 34with the identification of disparities back about a year, yearand a half ago, in pulling the data. We worked with Stanfordto get that down cleanly. And so this is the next step. And we're waiting to finish the 2019 DLI investigation,which we have completed that now, in order to figure out whichadditional data we are going to hard code, if any, so that wecould pull that data as well as part of -- so we'd have that aspart of the recipe or protocol, if you will, so we could usethat.Both Dr. Monin and Dr. Klofas have talked about theimportance of having such a sort of recipe going forward andwhat we're going to do to address disparities. That issomething that we'll work on. We have not yet worked on theactual content of that yet.So we've got our working methodology. And then the nextstep is now to work with outside folks to get that down to kindof the same recipe style that we have for identifyingdisparities.THE COURT: Great. Okay. Now, I interrupted you. Whatelse did you have to say?MS. MARTIN: One other thing that I wanted to follow upthat was mentioned today, it's something that Your Honor saidabout the Court ultimately transferring the oversight reins,because it is important to note that when court oversight endsat some point down the line, OPD will not simply be left, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 34 of 41 35you know, on its own to ensure that all of its progress on the51 tasks remain.As a starting point, the Department, as AC Allison talkedabout earlier, does have measures in place to monitor andself-correct on its own, not only to sustain the progress ithas made, but to continue to advance its procedural justicepriorities in the community and inside the Department.The oversight bodies to ensure sustainability andcontinued advancement of constitutional policing principles arewhat the City has enabled over the past several years, andthe City is not going to have to do this alone. We have thePolice Commission, the Commission's independent InspectorGeneral, and the Community Police Review Agency, who all haveexpress authority over areas, including Department policy,auditing NSA tasks, and investigations and discipline.The oversight bodies are in addition to City Council,which includes a Council Public Safety Committee, the Mayor,the City Administrator, and the City Attorney, all whoregularly and closely engage with the Department onaccountability measures.So who watches the watchman or who polices the police,well, in the City of Oakland, the answer to that is at leastthree direct oversight bodies and four additional city offices.And the City is prepared to take the reins on oversight.And as it edges closer to that eventuality, it's important to 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 35 of 41 36acknowledge this is a Department and a City that areextraordinarily different, not only from the Department andthe City at the start of this case in 2000, but eventhe Department and the City of six years ago.THE COURT: All right. Thank you.MS. MARTIN: Thank you, Your Honor.THE COURT: Mayor Schaaf.MAYOR SCHAAF: Thank you, Your Honor.This will be my last time addressing you. So it's been anhonor to be on this journey for our community and for a senseof justice together.I get asked, about a hundred times a day, what am I doingnext, and my answer is I am 1000 percent focused on being theMayor of Oakland to my very last day, which will be January 2ndat 9:59 a.m. And so you have my continued commitment to staylaser focused on this work.I will not stop holding this department accountable notfor compliance. Everybody in this organization knows I bristleat that word because this is about continual improvement. Itis work that will never end, and it is the work that we must becommitted to.And I promise, as well, that when my successor is known,which should be in about four weeks, that I will also work totransition them and to clearly impart to them the importance ofstaying personally and deeply engaged in this work. That is my 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 36 of 41 37commitment to you and to the people of Oakland.I do want to acknowledge our challenges, particularly thehuge increase in homicides and the sense of frustration fromour public that there is a rising lawlessness.But I do want to acknowledge that our problems withattrition, for example, have improved. We are starting to seethat slow down. And our success in recruiting the right kind of newofficers, who have raised their hand for public service for allthe right reasons and are here to be the guardians of ourcommunity, not lawyers, we are very pleased to see the resultsof recruitment and training.I do want to address head-on the two related disciplinarymatters that were raised in the Monitor's recent report. CityAdministrator Reiskin and I are fully versed on the matters.We take them extremely seriously. We took swift action to hireexternal expert investigators as soon as there was any questionabout the sufficiency of OPD's internal investigations. And wewill continue to stay vigilant to instances where the nature ofcertain matters clearly will warrant independent review. Andas always, we look forward to finding the truth in thesematters and addressing any issues that are uncovered, both interms of personal accountability of officers as well asimproving OPD's processes.My departing thoughts for you is just to express my deep, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 37 of 41 38deep gratitude to the Court and, of course, to the plaintiffs'counsel who have been incredible partners in this work. Andbecause of you, our city is safer; it has more dignity; it hasmore justice. So thank you for that.And I also want to say that we are going to continue toembrace -- it's who Oakland is -- the opportunities to make ourpublic safety system stronger and involve communityorganizations, community members, both the formal and informalorganizations and structures that Oakland is so well-known for,who will continue to insist that we reimagine public safety,that we strengthen civilian oversight. And that will, ofcourse, include the continuing and very important and effectiverole of the Office of the Inspector General that is independentand under our Police Commission. I guess I want to just to end with one partingobservation. You've seen in these reports that there is clearevidence of cultural change in the Department. You see it inthe statistics around racial disparities. Not to say that thework is ever done, but we see it. But I want you to know thatI also have felt it.Every new class of police recruits -- and it's actuallycaptured in the documentary The Force. My very first day asthe Mayor of Oakland eight years ago, I walk up and down theline, while they are still in their training, before graduationday, and I asked each one individually: Why have you chosen to 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 38 of 41 39come work for the Oakland Police Department?And I want you to know that the quality and the nature ofthose answers has changed during my time as Mayor. And everygraduation, when I address that class, I ask them to remembertheir "why" and to hold it deeply in their hearts as they dothis incredibly difficult work. I hear those answers so differently now, so many moreofficers who have grown up in Oakland, that want to ensure thattheir communities, that often don't have a voice, have someonethey can trust within government that they feel will be fairand hear their particular concerns. And that is what I'mhearing more and more, and that is what I am feeling.And so, Your Honor, again, I thank you for your incrediblecontribution to Oakland's safety and justice. And I want tojust say it has been a pleasure. It has been hard, but thiswork is the most important work that any leader can do. And I thank you for everything that you have done forOakland.THE COURT: Well, thank you.MAYOR SCHAAF: And, of course, I welcome your questions.THE COURT: Thank you. I don't have any questions foryou.I want to send thanks back to you, particularly in thelast few years, which is not to denigrate anything before, butin the last few years, your personal engagement and commitment 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 39 of 41 40to accountability and integrity as part of this process ofconstitutional policing. It's not that you shouldn't have beendoing that anyway. It is the job of the mayor. The buck doesalways stop with you. But you have been particularly engagedin this process, and the City has been very well-served bythat, as has the OPD. And it is my hope that you will be able to pass thatcommitment along to the next mayor who, if anything, will needto do it more than you have.So I thank you very much for your service, and I lookforward to reading about what you end up doing in life. So,thank you.MAYOR SCHAAF: Thank you, Your Honor.THE COURT: All right. Mr. Lucia.MR. LUCIA: Good afternoon, Your Honor.THE COURT: Good afternoon.MR. LUCIA: I really don't have much to offer in terms ofthe substantive issues that have been discussed; so I'll leaveit at that.THE COURT: Okay. I think that's very wise. It's hardto -- you don't want to step on the last act.So with that, I will tell you that we are going to meetagain on January 10th. We are in the sustainability period,and it is my firm expectation that everyone on this call willkeep their eyes firmly on the prize and make sure that all of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 40 of 41 41 the things that the Chief described earlier maintain theirstate of sustainability and improvement and all of the thingsthat are necessary for OPD.So I will look forward to seeing you on January 10th.Thank you all very much.MS. MARTIN: Thank you very much, Your Honor. ALL: Thank you, Your Honor.THE CLERK: Thank you all.(Proceedings adjourned at 4:54 p.m.) ---o0o--- CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter. DATE: Friday, October 21, 2022 ____________________________________________________ Ana Dub, CSR No. 7445, RDR, RMR, CRR, CCRR, CRG, CCG Official United States Reporter 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
Case 3:00-cv-04599-WHO Document 1548 Filed 10/21/22 Page 41 of 41