Public Safety Committee - Cancelled
March 12, 2024

Pages 1 - 44 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA Before The Honorable William H. Orrick, Judge DELPHINE ALLEN, et al., ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) VS. ) NO. C 00-04599 WHO ) CITY OF OAKLAND, et al., ) ) Defendants. ) ) San Francisco, California Tuesday, January 23, 2024 TRANSCRIPT OF VIDEOCONFERENCE PROCEEDINGS APPEARANCES: (via videoconference) For Plaintiffs: LAW OFFICES OF JOHN L. BURRIS 7677 Oakport Street - Suite 1120 Oakland, California 94612 BY: JOHN L. BURRIS, ATTORNEY AT LAW LAW OFFICES OF JAMES B. CHANIN 3050 Shattuck Avenue Berkeley, California 94705 BY: JAMES B. CHANIN, ATTORNEY AT LAW For Defendants: OFFICE OF OAKLAND CITY ATTORNEY BARBARA J. PARKER One Frank Ogawa Plaza - Sixth Floor Oakland, California 94612 BY: BRIGID S. MARTIN, ATTORNEY AT LAW (APPEARANCES CONTINUED ON THE FOLLOWING PAGE) REPORTED BY: Marla F. Knox, CSR No. 14421, RPR, CRR, RMR United States District Court - Official Reporter 2APPEARANCES: (continued via videoconference) For Intervenor: RAINS LUCIA & WILKINSON 2300 Contra Costa Boulevard - Suite 230 Pleasant Hill, California 94523 BY: ROCKNE A. LUCIA, JR., ATTORNEY AT LAW Also Present: Acting Chief Darren Allison Deputy Chief Clifford Wong Captain Anthony Tedesco Marsha Carpenter Peterson, OPC Chair Mayor Sheng Thao City Administration Jestin Johnson 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425 3Tuesday - January 23, 2024 3:31 p.m. P R O C E E D I N G S ---000--- THE CLERK: We will get started in case number00-4599, Allen, et al. versus City of Oakland, et al.Counsel, if you would please state your appearance for therecord.MR. BURRIS: Yeah, John Burris for the Plaintiffs.MS. MARTIN: Good afternoon, Your Honor, Brigid Martinfor the City of Oakland. I have here with me today Mayor ShengThao; City Attorney Barbara Parker; City Administrator, JestinJohnson; Chief of Police, Darren Allison and members of theexecutive team at OPD; Inspector General, Michelle Phillips andPolice Commission Chair Marsha Peterson.THE COURT: Excellent. Good afternoon.MR. LUCIA: Good afternoon, Your Honor, Rockne Luciafor Intervenor OPOA.THE COURT: Great. Good afternoon to everybody. Iassume Mr. Chanin will be fighting his way through Zoom andgetting -- joining us in a moment.Let me start today first by acknowledging the death ofOfficer Tuan Le, who was killed in the line of duty, protectingand serving the public.In my view being a public servant is the highest callingfor any human being and being a police officer is the most 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
4difficult of those calling.Police work provides the scaffold for the rule of lawwithout which our republic can't function. So the loss ofOfficer Le is a blow to all of us.Before getting into the work that remains, I want to startby recognizing the progress that OPD has made.The case management statement this time didn't highlightthe substantial decrease in stops over the last several years,but it did point out critically that the rate of Blacksdetained in stops has fallen dramatically. The CMC statement didn't discuss the impact of vision orthe risk management meetings that occurred not only citywidebut area-wide, which are critical to constitutional policing.It did note that the policies that were recommended by theClarence Dyer report have been published and that the Monitorhas found OPD in compliance with task 5 at the moment.OPD is also in compliance with task 2 although there issome question whether it is going to be able to stay there.And I look forward to asking about that in a moment.I am concerned about task 45. The City argues that itshould have been found in compliance because it's promulgatedappropriate policies and issued a searing report identifyingreal issues regarding disparate treatment of Black officers andofficers of color generally in disciplinary proceedings.And I congratulate the City for doing that because it 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
5shows an ability to examine internal processes and exposeproblems that it found. That's really important.But to be in compliance with task 45 means fixing theproblem. That's what is required. And I see this issue ascompletely intertwined with the Clarence Dyer report, withtask 5, and with the underlying racial issues that got --resulted in the NSA in the first place.I'm also concerned with how long it's taking to select anew chief of police.I think Chief Allison has done an excellent job, and Ithank him for his leadership over the last year and a half; butI would like to ensure that the new chief -- whoever he or sheis -- is committed to constitutional policing.I agree completely with the Police Commission statement onthe importance of civilian oversight, and I look forward to theday that this Court and this monitorship comes to an end.That's going to require excellence in the candidates recruitedfor the chief's job and a commitment to everybody -- fromeverybody to constitutional policing.So, I have a few questions and then I'm going to be happyto hear targeted comments from the lawyers and from Mayor Thao.I will say now the next CMC is going to be on June 4th of2024. I know that the City had been hoping for an earlierdate, but I want to see what happens regarding tasks 2, 5and 45. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
6And prior to that CMC, I want the parties -- I also hopemaybe the chief will be -- the new chief will have beenselected by that time.I want to see the parties in advance of that meet anddiscuss whether it's appropriate to end the monitorship at thattime, to change its form or to retain the status -- maintainthe status quo.And in advance of that, I would like the City to updatethe stop data -- historic stop data as well as other meaningfulmetrics that show how the OPD has embraced the spirit as wellas the letter of the NSA.So -- so that's my -- those are my preliminaries. Let meadd -- so I'm going to start by asking a few questions, as Ihave before. And is Captain Tedesco -- he is present. Can youturn on your camera, Captain Tedesco?CAPTAIN TEDESCO: Indeed.THE COURT: Good afternoon.CAPTAIN TEDESCO: Good afternoon, Your Honor.THE COURT: So, the last review of task 2 puts youright on the cusp and -- of compliance, and I have raised withyour predecessors how important I think it is that -- thatthese investigations are timely and that falling below85 percent really does a disservice to everybody who isinvolved.So I'm interested in how you are holding your employees, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
7your supervisees, investigators accountable for meeting thedeadlines and whether any changes are going to be necessary toremain in compliance.CAPTAIN TEDESCO: Thank you, Your Honor. A couple ofpoints on that, if you will bear with me, I think the -- myassignment in June, I have been learning quickly on the job.I'm very process oriented from my previous assignments.And I immediately took the opportunity to learn and assesseverything that we were doing in order to look foropportunities for improvement.One of the things I want to say right away is that thedepartment for Q3 maintained its 85 percent compliance despitethe cyber attack, which provided us with very significantchallenges that were seen a little bit in quarter 2, more so inQ3 and moved forward into Q4 as well.I'm not expecting to see those same challenges moving intothe first quarter of this year as well as I think we haveresolved them all.So looking at resiliency through that, I don't know thatwe imagined a cyber attack, the design of the 85 percentstandard, but we were still able to maintain it despite thatsignificant challenge.But with that, there was opportunities for buildingresiliency within a number of our systems so such a thingcouldn't happen to us again, and that went forward in storing 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
8our data in a number of different sources of third-partyevidence.com in order to make sure that if something happenedagain, we would have multiple backups so we wouldn't lose datain the same fashion again.And also, it gave us opportunity then to look at ourintake process, our assignment to investigations process, ourdivision level process for inefficiencies because really we cando the investigations and I believe that we can commit toquality investigations but the 180-day timeline really meansthat we need every available moment in order to get them doneproperly.And so we looked very hard at a number of our processes,and one of the major things that we have undertaken since Ihave transferred over is the switch away from paper processesto all digital processes.And what that's done is it's allowed us to save weeks onthe front end of most investigation in accumulating all of theevidentiary material and distributing it to the investigatorthat needs that material and then being able to easily sharethrough that the process with review without having totransport physical files from place to place.So we are saving a lot of time there, and we expect thatto continue on forward; and it's been already a bit of a gamechanger for us in terms of our timeline pieces of it.Really I'm hoping with that -- because I agree with the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
9report, there is definitely a nexus between task 2 andtask 5 -- that the additional time saved with us going forwardwill give us opportunity to continue with qualityinvestigations and make sure that we are getting that right;that we are getting to the truth of the matter in each of theseinvestigations.THE COURT: That's great. That's very encouraging andI'm delighted that you have taken the bull by the horns. So Iwill look forward to continued compliance then going down theroad. Thank you very much again.And so, Deputy Chief Wong.(Pause in proceedings.) DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: Good afternoon, Your Honor.THE COURT: Good afternoon. How are you?DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: Very well, sir.THE COURT: Good. So you sit in a pivotal place forachieving the ends of the NSA and I am interested in -- firstof all, I assume that you were going to tell me that the riskmanagement meetings continue apace throughout the district andthroughout the area commands; is that true?DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: Yes, Your Honor. The riskmanagement meetings still continue at the area levels as wellas at the department level, and we still have them separated byfield operations and investigative sections and traffic so asto not make the meetings so long, but we have thorough coverage 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
10for them.THE COURT: So could you give me a specific example ortwo of how the information that you have learned through therisk management meetings has actually modified officerbehavior?DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: That's a very wide range of topicsthat are covered at risk management meetings.THE COURT: And I could've given you a heads-up onthat, but I didn't. I'm interested in what you can provide forme.DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: Okay. Well, starting fromsomething as simple as, let's say, training. Vehiclecollisions, we noticed that those were going up a while back,and they were low speed collisions and we simply referred thatover to the training section; and they were able to adjust thetraining regimen.And normally, they would be involved in a lot ofhigh-speed pursuit driving, but we realize that's not where theaccidents were occurring. They were occurring when theofficers were trying to get gas or just turning short corners. So they changed the training to adjust to that small --the small or slow speed maneuvers. So that's a broaderexample.A more narrow example would be they had an officer thatwas -- their attendance records weren't quite normal. You 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
11would notice they were calling in sick or having a lot ofissues. And then when they looked at that individual officer,put them on supervisory monitoring as a result of the riskmanagement meeting, and that monitor later discovered that theofficer was having personal issues in her life; and they wereable to correct that via a non-punitive method. And that all stemmed from data that just came up on aslide at a risk management meeting.THE COURT: So that's -- that is excellent. Can youassure me that when I am no longer asking you questions onZoom, that risk management meetings are now fully embracedwithin the department and that -- that this is somethingthat's -- that will survive long after people have forgottenwhat the NSA is?DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: Well, first of all, it isdocumented policy in our one, so the whole risk managementmeeting process is in policy and required.Second, it is part of the way we do business now. It isin our processes. It is in the way that -- that's how we speakto, I guess, our subordinate levels of supervision to determinewhat's going on in their areas, what's going on in their units. These risk management meetings are a way of taking theinformation based on individual level or on squad levels oreven department levels and drilling up and down.And then we have -- we have gotten used to basically 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
12talking about issues in these meetings because this is theperfect format to cover several layers of supervision as wellas a wide range of topics, and we have gotten to the pointwhere we started adjusting the topics that we talk about.If we realize, you know, these collisions are no longer anissue, we kind of take that off and put it on the back burner. If we realize that stops are becoming an issue, thatbecomes the bigger topic and we spend more time on those. Andit is just engrained in the way we do things now.THE COURT: I'm delighted to hear that. I reallyexpect that that will continue. I went -- as you know, I wentto a couple of the earlier risk management meetings. And tohave this now engrained throughout the department is -- is atremendous step forward. So, thank you for that.DEPUTY CHIEF WONG: You are welcome.THE COURT: Chief Allison, let me ask you a question.It's good to see you.CHIEF ALLISON: Good to see you too, Your Honor.THE COURT: So I'm interested in sort of a similarquestion that I asked of Chief Deputy Wong. How are youensuring -- going to ensure that when you are no longer sittingin that seat and the -- and I'm no longer sitting in this seatthat the -- the progress that OPD has made over time and willmake over the next few months to get into full compliance isgoing to be permanent? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
13CHIEF ALLISON: Thank you for that question, YourHonor. And I also want to take an opportunity just to begin tothank you for the recognition of Officer Le and the tragedythat was faced a few weeks ago. I do appreciate that, and thatmeans a lot to the organization and to the family.To the question at hand, you know, having the opportunityto have been with this thing now for almost -- well, over 29years -- I have seen this department change, grow, become selfreflective over time; and I have seen it exponentially becomemore self reflective in adjustments in the last several months,several years of my career.And I think, you know, fundamentally when it comes down tosustainability and organizational culture, it is creating avalue system that is not only linked to the community butlinked to the noble cause and the honorable position of apolice officer to engage in public service that we get at thevery beginning of our careers.And I truly believe that that value system exists. It'schecked on and reinforced by oversight bodies throughout theCity to -- including our government, City government or Cityleadership, our commissions, our standards in OIG.And I think that value system has been infused andengrained in our policies and our hiring practices and ourtraining and development and our job in this organization is todevelop not only a leadership cadre at the top but a leadership 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
14cadre throughout the entire organization to reinforce -- tohave a succession plan, a sustainability plan in that area.And so I think we have developed the practices and theinfrastructure that we didn't have, you know, 29, 30 years agoin the organization to act as a fundamental foundationalprinciple to uphold those values. Our policies, as was discussed a little bit about some ofthe outcomes of our risk management meetings, policies that wesaw grow out of that were handcuffing policies or searchpolicies, things that are integral in how we treat the public.Those have been infused and grounded in those principles.So that along with training and accountability. Andaccountability comes in many different forms. It is not justdiscipline, but it could be mentorship, development, training,retraining but also rewarding and recognizing those principlesthat we find important to succeed as an organization, thosefundamental, foundational principles along with our valuesystem in how we hire and how we promote has been infused inthe organization.And, you know, obviously as individuals come in to thechair to the role of chief and leaders come and go, there'salways a concern that somebody could come in and modify thosepolicies or move the ship a different direction, so to speak.And I think that the City has done well in creatingexternal oversight to be able to regulate that and bring us 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
15back to the North Star, so to speak, when -- if we were todrift down our course.We have our Inspector General's Office that's separatedfrom the police department that engages in audits and reviews.They have certainly shown the ability to do some recent auditsand reviews.We have our independent complaint investigative body withthe CPRA that can do independent and separate internal affairscomplaints. And, of course, any policies that are fundamental to howwe engage with the community and ensure public trust havePolice Commission engagement and oversight. That can't just bearbitrarily changed into a different direction.So I think we have created that value system, thepolicies, the structures and the protocols to reinforce thatvalue system, and what I would consider a safety net if someonewere to come in and up root those fundamental practices to getus back to center.THE COURT: Okay. That's a good answer and I am -- Iappreciate your efforts and particularly over the last year anda half -- this has not been an easy time -- and I very muchappreciate the work that you have done.CHIEF ALLISON: Thank you, Your Honor.THE COURT: Thank you. All right. Well, let's go tolawyers, Mr. Chanin and Mr. Burris. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
16Mr. Chanin, why don't we start with you.MR. CHANIN: Thank you, Your Honor. And I'm sorry. Idon't know what happened when I couldn't sign in. I was thereat 3:15 but I'm sorry.THE COURT: This is what happens on Zoom. There'salways somebody -- very rarely it's me but I have grown not toget mad at anybody else who doesn't show up. So, please goahead.MR. CHANIN: I was there, though. All right. I would like to join Chief Allison in thankingthe Court in postponing the case management conference becauseof the tragic death of Oakland Police Officer Tuan Le.I appreciate you giving the OPD time to grieve and arrestsuspects in that senseless act. I'm very sorry for his lossand everyone who feels pain because of his loss.The disparities noted in OPD's own report attached asExhibit 1 to our joint CMC statement are not acceptable.In my view the disparities listed on the charts on page 7and 8 of the Plaintiff's statement warrant further Courtoversight.What the OPD is doing to its own officers recalls thereason why John and I filed the Riders case originally. And the fact that one officer did a significant portion ofthe disparate treatment and it was -- recalls the unrecognizeddisparate treatment over many years done by Officer Valerga 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
17when while on duty he was allowed to molest at least 100 Asianwomen before he was arrested and pled guilty to some of hismany crimes. OPD never punished Valerga's supervisor becausethey could not identify who supervised him.Now, almost 20 years later no one will tell us who, ifanyone, supervised the officer who did many of these FTARCissues.He blatantly discriminated against African-Americanofficers over and over again, yet he was un -- not caught byOPD for too long.As I have said many times before that the person whoshould have been disciplined is not just the subject officerwho did the wrongdoing, it should be his supervisor or hersupervisor -- in this case him, I believe. Only then willthere be real accountability at the OPD.Despite all of this, the fact that this behavior wasdisclosed by an Oakland police officer in a detailed reportshows how far the OPD has come since negotiated settlementagreement was made an order of the Court by Judge TheltonHenderson.And it is true that OPD has promulgated a number ofpolicies to remedy the situation. The extension you have justgranted will allow the Monitor and the Plaintiffs' attorneystime to see if these FTRAC reforms work or if we have the sameproblem with disparate treatment when we come back in June. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
18And that's going to be a big issue for me, speaking only formyself. The disparities in FTARC speak only not to -- speak notonly to task 45. If investigations result in disparities,task 5 is still a concern because you cannot have a disciplinesystem that is unfair for any reason most of all given thedisparities that led to this case if it is racially disparate.Far worse than the task 5 explanation that the City givesis its position that it has achieved substantial compliancewith task 45.First, the City admitted that the OPD's own report pointedout the problem with FTARC. As I said previously, this is oneof the many reasons why I am willing to consider having the NSAend this year because it shows that the Department has finallyachieved the capacity to discover its own shortcomings.However laudable this is, the report shows that there isstill work to be done. I cannot support an exit from the NSAjust because the OPD has discovered the problem.We need to see that the problem has been solved with thesame ingenuity and hard work that went into writing Exhibit 1.Thank you, Your Honor.THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Mr. Burris, do youhave anything to add?MR. BURRIS: Some, Your Honor, not much. First off, glad to be back with everyone. You know, I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
19want to just say that I have continued to take cases outside ofOakland if anyone might know -- it's not surprising -- but whatI have noted is that many of the conduct -- much of the conductthat we have addressed in Oakland really is still occurring inother places, and I am seeing racial profiling cases -- peoplebeing stopped -- even today -- just unnecessary reasons, tintedwindows, racial profilings, people's cars being searched,chasings that we have had a lot of work on, which I think thatwe have done a really good job in controlling chasings wherepeople don't get shot or killed at the end.So I'm very, very pleased about a lot of the work that hastaken place. I also feel that the work that needs to be donehas to be done, and I liken it I think to completing the job tohaving a hole in a leaky ship. If you have it, you haven't completed the job. You stillhave the problem with the ship sinking at some later point.And to me the issue that's most concerning -- and we allhave our own particular -- the racial profiling issues thatexisted in task 34 and the racial issues that existed intask 45 still are issues, for sustainability purposes, must bedealt with before we move on.And certainly there has been much progress on task 34. Wehave not tested in a while. I hope that there will be sometesting. But that is a test, an area for sustainability purposes, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
20as we move onto the next generation of lawyers and nextgeneration of people -- including my kids and all thegrandkids -- that this issue of task 34 will not be an issue.But I am concerned that we could regress in this area.And, of course, we have always had this concern about policeofficers within the Department although one might not thinkthat that was the big issue with me but it is in terms ofracial discrimination because I also know this depends upon thefuture employment, opportunities for people within theDepartment.And a racially -- African-American officers who arereceiving racial bias and disparate treatment at early stagesin their careers, we know that's a step behind, a step delay,and the promotional opportunities will be less and it will beless competitive.So it's important to get this right, and I commend effortshave been made to redo the policies; but for whatever reasons,that still has not got to the essence. And it may just behuman error, human judgment. And if that's the case, thenthere has to be checks and balances on that, so that one personcan't control the impact on another person -- other people'scareers for whatever reasons.And whatever the numbers show, they show; that thedisparity exists. So, you know, a lot of the good work hasbeen done. I'm real pleased with the efforts of the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
21Department. There is unfinished business that has to takeplace. And I don't want it to be colored and given any otherkinds of names. The fact is we have to be concerned about thedisparities that exist within the Department, and we have to beconcerned about the disparities that might exist in terms ofhow people are treated on the streets. And, of course, we want to make sure that what takes placein the Department is candidly performed. I think a lot of good efforts is being made, and I'mhopeful that we will get it done. I don't want to leave untilwe know that the issues of disparities have been controlled andthat everybody has a fair opportunity in the Department andthat people on the street are not going to be stopped justbecause of their race.THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Lucia. MR. LUCIA: Good afternoon, Your Honor. I also justwant to acknowledge your comments about Officer Le, and ChiefAllison put it very appropriately. He made the ultimatesacrifice for the citizens of Oakland, and a lot of us feltthis year has been traumatized by the events; but they pushedthrough and they push on. So I want to acknowledge that.I also, as you know, mentioned in our CMC statement thatthere has been a change in leadership at the OPOA. I will tellyou as their counsel for over 25 years, that officer -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
22Sergeant Nguyen, who is the new president, will carry throughas Barry Donelan did, the tradition of being collaborativewithin the Department.I will tell you over the last couple of months, a fewpolicies hit my desk that require meet and confer; and weworked -- we put those on a fast track, and I think we came upwith some solutions that accommodated the City, the unionmembers and I think ultimately (inaudible).So I don't really have anything else to offer, but I dowant to suggest that if between now and June you'd like to meetwith Sergeant Nguyen because he wasn't able to appear today --he is somewhere out there in the ether watching us -- but ifyou would like to meet with him, I think he is available andwould be willing to do that. And if you don't have anything else that you would like toask me, I think I will end it there.THE COURT: Great. Thank you, Mr. Lucia.Ms. Peterson, you are here -- I think a first timecaller -- and I don't know whether you had anything that youwanted to add to the discussion.MS. PETERSON: Well, I'm happy to be here. Thank you,Your Honor. And we too at the Oakland Police Commission mournthe death in the line of duty of Officer Le and had a moment ofsilence and constantly monitoring through Interim Chief Allisonthe health and welfare of the officers in the Oakland Police 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
23Department as a result of that death.With respect to the Oakland Police Commission, I'm happythat we were allowed to submit our addendum to the City'sstatement. I think it speaks for itself.I won't belabor all the points, but I will say thatcivilian oversight is an important progressive step in the Cityof Oakland; and the civilian oversight will enforce the policeaccountability that we are all looking for here and will drivethe cultural changes that we are also looking for. Andeffective civilian oversight, we believe, must be centered,resourced and collaborative. The Oakland Police Commission, Community Police ReviewAgency and the Office of Inspector General are up to the taskof civilian oversight.With respect -- and I assume you want to hear about thepolice chief search -- yes, we are in a second phase now ofthat search. The ad hoc, which I am the chair and our ViceChair Commissioner Ordaz and our Chair Emeritus Regina Jacksonare also on the ad hoc.We meet every Wednesday. We meet with the consultants.We are wanting to expand the announcement of the -- of thechief search to expand it. We have met with several chief --chief -- former chiefs of police and other prominent membersand thought leaders in this space to understand better whatkind of questions we should be asking, what kind of candidate 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
24we are looking for. We certainly want someone progressive andisn't afraid of -- at being brave in this space ofaccountability.We have asked for a rolling list of candidates and accessto their resumes and applications so we can do this process asspeedy as is reasonably possible.The list, as we all know, that we were given when I tookover in October, early November, was not as robust as we allwould have liked; and we chose the three that we thought werebest. And, yes, the list was rejected. And we have developed anew schedule. January 1st through January 31st is the openrecruitment. February 1st through the 29th we will evaluate,meaning we will vet and interview candidates and narrow it downto the minimum of three. Of course, we can send more and wewill send more as we see they are qualified. And the finalnames on our schedule to be given to the Mayor March 1st. Itcould be sooner if we get through the vetting and evaluationprocess quicker.So it is our goal to work collaboratively with the Mayorto choose the next police chief. It is our mandate to do thatas a commission, and we are working diligently towards that.THE COURT: Great. Well, thank you for that reportand how it's going and I -- I can't emphasize enough what youalready know, which is your -- this job just requires -- the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
25City of Oakland deserves the very best, most excellent chiefthat is out there. And so I -- keep working at it.MS. PETERSON: We are.THE COURT: I'm delighted to hear that.MS. PETERSON: I'm born and raised in Oakland. I'mcommitted to doing this work, and I want to see us have thebest chief; and I want to see it done, not through a circularfiring squad of who didn't do or who isn't doing but to workcollaboratively. Thank you.THE COURT: Thank you very much. So, Ms. Martin, Ithink I will come to you next unless -- I will let you and theMayor decide who goes next, but I assume that you wanted to laythe groundwork but --MS. MARTIN: Yes, Your Honor. I'm happy to go next.And I also know that our City Administrator Jestin Johnson isalso with us today. And if Your Honor would like, he would behappy to introduce himself as well at some point. This is hisfirst hearing before Your Honor as the City Administrator.But I will reference first Your Honor's questions abouttask 45. Disparities are unacceptable, full stop. The City isin a hundred percent agreement with everyone on that.Now, there are a few things that I do need to correct.Mr. Chanin referenced one of the investigators beingresponsible for the disparity that we saw with failure toaccept and refer complaints. And that was not accurate. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
26Although there was one investigator who was responsiblefor adding more of those types of allegations toinvestigations, ultimately there was not disparity in thefindings of that officer's investigations. So I just wanted tocorrect that.The Department has made its very best efforts inconjunction with Stanford University with researchers from themonitoring team to try to figure out what was causing thefailure to accept and refer complaints disparity that we sawbecause ultimately the best way to fix the problem is to findwhat's causing it or to find what's likely to be causing it.So the Department spent a lot of time -- well-spent timetrying to get to the bottom of that as best as it could, andthe Department in doing so found a number of what we will callprocess points where it would be more likely that the disparitywas seeping in. Because, as I mentioned, it wasn't the -- the result ofone officer's cases or one investigator's cases, and it wasn'tsomething that had a direct and obvious cause.So we are looking for places where we might see bias creepinto the process and working on changing those and making itless likely that bias will influence the outcomes at thoseprocess points.So the Department changed policy. It has a new complaintpolicy and a new standard for failure to accept or refer 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
27complaints.There has been extensive training both with officers sothey understand what is required of them under that policy andof investigators and supervisors who may determine if there's aviolation of that policy.The point here is to make sure that the Department isconsistently interpreting the rule and applying the misconductrules here.The Department also added requirements for review. If youare going to add an allegation for failure to accept or refer acomplaint unintentional, it now has to be approved by theCapital of Internal Affairs.So there have been a number of things that the Departmenthas done that are targeted -- specifically targeted, not justthrowing things at the wall but targeted at really fixing thisproblem.Now, I'm hopeful that the 2023 discipline outcomes andfindings and misconduct findings, I'm hopeful that that reportwill show that there is no disparity either with failure toaccept or refer complaints or with anything else. Frankly, if there is, we are prepared to address that headon. We have a process in place. We know we can do it, and wehave the partners that we can call on to help us find the causeor the most likely cause if there are disparities.And it's -- it's, I think, reasonable for us to believe 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
28that in the future we may see a disparity again. We are notperfect. Our -- nothing is perfect. And so if we -- we don'texpect necessarily that everything will always move forward andwe will never find a disparity again.I think the central issue here is whether we can addressit, we do address it, and it does get fixed.So, I'm hopeful that our 2023 data report will show nofurther disparities; but at some point, Your Honor, I mean, wecould theoretically continue to see disparities and have toaddress them. And I think maybe once we have shown that we can fix it --and we believe that we have shown that with what we have doneand hopefully in the next few months we will see a report thatshows that there are no further disparities.THE COURT: That's what I would love to see. Thatwould be great.MS. MARTIN: Yeah. And, Your Honor, one other thingthat I wanted to mention is the question that keeps comingback, that we keep coming back to here that doesn't involvetechnical aspects of task compliance but more the big pictureof has the Department's culture changed enough? Has theDepartment transformed enough? Has the Department evolvedenough so that we have confidence that it's evolution willcontinue after the Court oversight ends?And there's no doubt that the Department is transformed 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
29from what it was when the NSA was implemented 20 years ago, butthere still remains a need for further transformation evenafter 20 years. And that's actually not surprising particularly when youthink about policing culture in America. It had nearly 200years to develop.Boston's police department started in 1838; New York'ssomewhere around 1844. And Oakland itself was founded in 1853.So the Department's cultural evolution -- though it'ssteady and already somewhat significant -- will likely continuefor decades to come.Because when we talk about cultural change at OPD, we alsohave to consider the culture of the institution of policing.OPD's culture does not exist in a vacuum. It didn't develop ina vacuum, and its transformation isn't occurring in a vacuum.Its members work very closely with police in neighboringand overlapping jurisdictions at the local, state and federallevels; and they are members of state and national policingorganizations. So the question at this point shouldn't be has theDepartment -- or in June maybe, not at this point -- whetherthe Department has completed its transformation but has itchanged enough; has it hit that critical tipping point where wecan trust that the changes it has made will hold and itsevolution will continue? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
30And I think we know that complete cultural change can't bethe standard because last April when we were here in court,Mr. Burris told us that he had asked the Monitor whether theMonitor had ever seen a department's culture fundamentallychange under oversight. And the Monitor's answer was no.So the question must be: Has the Department's culturechanged enough? Do we have the momentum once we have compliedwith the NSA to continue our cultural evolution absent Courtoversight?And I think that there are three things that I can thinkof here today that demonstrate that we should have confidencein the Department's ability to do that and that we have thatmomentum.Number one is the national conversation about race inpolicing. Communities across the country are expressing astrong desire for their agencies to adopt policies andprocedures that Oakland already has. And as a result, lawenforcement agencies are adapting constitutional policingmodels.This is important because, as I mentioned a moment ago,OPD's culture doesn't exist in a vacuum.Number two, the Department has been afforded what isreally a rigorous and demanding education from the courtmonitors and compliance directors, an education where therehave been no, quote-unquote, easy As. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
31The lessons learned have seeped into this Department'sbones, and that is no more apparent than in the risk managementprocess and meetings that Deputy Chief Wong just talked about afew minutes ago.Number three, the Department has demonstrated and theCity -- the City has demonstrated that it believes so deeply inwhat are essentially 51 promises about policing that the Citymade to this community in the NSA, that it has put mechanismsin place in the City charter to enforce compliance with all NSAtasks and ensure transparency about that enforcement even afterthe settlement terms have been fulfilled as part of this courtproceeding.And these are the reasons that I believe we can beconfident that the Department's evolution will continue whenCourt oversight ends. And the City asks that the Court consider whether it mightbe appropriate to end oversight this summer assuming that weare all in agreement that the Department is in compliance.Thank you.THE COURT: So, thank you, Ms. Martin. And that isthe -- what I'm asking everybody to talk about in advance ofthe June meeting.I will say, the monitorship is not going to continue afterthe City has met the terms of the NSA. The City has not metthe terms of the NSA and that's why we are where we are. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
32There may come a time that everybody says, well, we are --you know, this is going to be a forever project; and it's notnecessary for the Court to stay in on a forever project. Iwill listen to that.There is a race issue that needs to be dealt with, and itis -- it has been a through line and what the Court has beeninterested in from day one. It is the reason why the Court gotin it at day one, and that is the thing that is -- will bedriving the review in June.And, as I think I said earlier, I'm -- nothing would makeme happier than saying goodbye to everybody who is on this callbecause that would mean that the -- that the OPD has achievedand the City has achieved everything that it promised to do.And I -- I don't want to undercut in any way the progressthat has been made. I think there was progress made when JudgeHenderson was sitting in this chair, and I think there has beena lot of progress since. And now, we just have to complete thetask so...MR. BURRIS: Your Honor, may I be heard?THE COURT: Sure. Go ahead.MR. BURRIS: Listening to Brigid's comments -- andalthough I agree that much effort has been done, I have lookedat a lot of departments under the country who have been underconsent decrees and Oakland has probably done better thanmostly all of them in terms of being in compliance with the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
33overall objective.However, I don't agree with the notion that because we arecentered on other departments around us and we can be affectedby some of them, that somehow can have -- that we can lower ourstandards in some ways because we have other departments whoare not doing what we are doing and that we can be affectedthat way.I just don't want that to be the case. I mean, I think wehave to -- we have to have our own high standards here; meetthose standards. And if other departments don't do it, that'son them; but we have to maybe bring them along. Maybe otherlawsuits will be required for that to occur in those areas.But I don't think we should in any way lower our standardsof trying to get to the sustainability that we think isconstitutional policing regardless of what other people aredoing.And I know Brigid is not suggesting that, but I want to bevery clear that I don't think that other departments orwhatever they are doing means anything to us and what it shouldmean to us in terms of what our standards ought to be and whatwe are trying to accomplish here. They are not under theconsent decree or NSA. We are. And so we have an opportunityto set the standards for everyone else, and we are doing thatin many ways. Thank you.THE COURT: So, I agree with you completely. I think 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
34Ms. Martin agrees with you completely, and I didn't hear hersaying anything different.And I do think that Oakland is in a leadership position interms of not only having the policies that are sort of state ofthe art but the substance in any number of ways that is -- thatsort of proves the benefit of the hard work that's been done.Now, we just have to finish that.MR. BURRIS: Stay the course.THE COURT: So, let me -- move onto Mayor Thao. Andsorry that you are sick and please what -- tell me what youwould like to tell me. MAYOR THAO: Absolutely. Good afternoon, Your Honor,and thank you for the flexibility in allowing us to be on Zoom.I definitely don't want to give what I have to everyone.MR. BURRIS: Yeah, it wouldn't help the cause. Thankyou. MAYOR THAO: I double down on exactly what John Burrisjust stated. You know, we need to be the leaders in the nationin regards to constitutional policing, and I truly believethat, you know, even today if we were to look at our force, Iwould argue that we have the best trained officers.Is there more work to be done? Absolutely. And that'swhy we are here today. But -- and then before I say anythingelse, I also want to say thank you, Your Honor, for the momentfor Officer Le. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
35It was a very difficult time for our whole Oakland family.You know, going through that process, it was very hard for mepersonally. You know, it truly is losing a family member, andI want to acknowledge here as well too for OPOA for reallystepping up to host a memorial so that the community can, youknow, really celebrate the life of Officer Le and have a momentas well too. And so thank you to the OPOA for stepping up toorganize that in such a short period of time.In my remarks today, Judge, it's going to be even shorterthan usual because I am having a hard time breathing, to behonest. But, you know, our City Administrator is here. His nameis Jestin Johnson. If you would like to hear from Mr. Johnson,I do believe he is in the container.And as the Court might imagine, this year -- my first yearas being the 51st Mayor of the City of Oakland -- I have beenable to really reflect deeply on what it means for someone tobe a good leader, and I wanted to share some of the insightsthat my experiences as Oakland's mayor have really driven homefor me in this past year.You know, for more than two decades, I truly see that nocity outside of Oakland has invested in to cultivate policythat promote the constitutional policing and accountability.Is it enough? We have much more to grow. And I do alsosee that, you know, no police department out there has cheered 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
36louder for the culture of integrity and transparency. And,again, we will continue to strengthen those, right, andcontinue to do that hard work.And yet despite our written and our spoken commitmentsthat we hear and you hear every quarter or what have you, wehave dealt with some serious setbacks, and we have toacknowledge that over the many years.The details, whether they are different when you hearthem, no matter what, these are serious problems. You know,full stop. They are serious problems. And they usuallyinvolve a failure of some sort of leadership at some level.And the solutions have involved other leaders stepping upto make changes so that we can grow from the mistakes that havebeen -- that have been made.And in any organization a policy is only as good as thepeople uplifting it. And if a leader fails to even recognizethe problem behavior when they see it, the policy work can't bedone; right. It will just be a watered down version for peopleto stand by to make the same mistakes.And if a leader minimizes or hides the behavior to protectthemselves or the people they favor, the policy just can't workeither.And, you know, if an organization's leader don't model thebehavior that they want to see, if they don't really embraceand personify a culture that they want to see, then the rest of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
37the team picks up on that and even the most inspirationalmission statement won't have a real meaning.You know, I think of it as I'm a single mother. I havealways lived by my words and my actions because I know that ourkids -- my kid, my son, my nieces and nephews are alwayswatching, right, and it's just the same thing.When Oaklanders elected me as their mayor, I was honoredand continued to be humbled by the trust they put in me. Ialways will be. I'm thankful for the many leaders in Oakland. You know, in the City of Oakland, we are so activated,whether it be politically or engaging with our neighborsincluding OPD, who actually walked the walk.But I also recognize that I have a uniquely critical roleas Mayor of the City. And in my first six weeks in office Ihad to begin addressing some of those serious incidents andcultural problems. We were all there together, all of us in this room. And Ihad to make some very difficult decisions. As I stand heretoday, I can't say that I modeled that behavior I want to seeat OPD and throughout City Government.We recognized the unacceptable behavior for what it was,and I refused to look the other way even though it was verydifficult, you know, as a person myself.But I refused to down-play it. And when I had to maketough decisions, I did that, you know, without playing 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
38favorites, without playing politics. I did just that. Ididn't want to take any shortcuts. I put Oakland first and itsconstituents first, its residents and businesses first, by whatI knew was right. And I always will to be quite honest.And as much as I wish we could put something in place thatwould just prevent us from ever covering another seriousproblem -- whether it be at OPD or other departments or whathave you -- that's something we can control -- that we cannotcontrol because problems happen, you know.What I can control is how leaders in Oakland respond toproblems. You know, leading is a responsibility -- a highresponsibility. To your point, Judge, you know, I take public service --you know, it is the highest level of calling, I believe, and Itake it very seriously.And so I have hired a wonderful City Administrator,Mr. Jestin Johnson, who has promised me that he will embody thetype of integrity that we want to see at OPD, and I will holdhim to it. Soon we will hire a police chief, and I will hold them tothe same promise. And to that point this is why I think it isso critical that Oakland deserves nothing but the best.We are at a pivotal moment. We do not and I refuse toallow for all the great work that we have done together, youknow, whether because of this process or not -- you know, all 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
39the progress that we have created, I refuse to allow that to goby the wayside. I only want to build upon it to continue to bethe leading city in the whole nation on all these progressiveefforts.And at the end of the day, I believe that's what the NSAis fundamentally about. The NSA is obviously a legal document,but the core of the NSA is a promise. It is a commitment thatthe City of Oakland made to the people of Oakland, present andfuture. It is a promise to change, you know, the DNA of how wepolice in the City of Oakland. You know, to what Mr. Burris spoke about, those are realallegations -- not allegations but we have seen that they havebeen implemented throughout the City. Yes, it is probablyhappening, you know, in other departments too; but what we havetoday is we have leaders of the City of Oakland, so that's whatwe are going to talk about.It is not a guarantee that OPD will ever be problem free,but it is a promise that their leaders will root out problems,deal with them honorably and really put Oakland's interest atthe forefront.No, the public doesn't hear about all the nuances or evenknow the full story behind what decisions are made, but I cantell you that if we can put Oakland's interests at theforefront, its constituency -- whether it be residents,businesses or what have you -- that we can as leaders of the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
40City altogether really hold our Department to the samethreshold.And I have been holding us to that promise, and I willcontinue to hold us to that promise as long as I'm in thisposition. So I just want to say thank you, and I'm happy to answerany questions that you may have.THE COURT: Thank you, Mayor Thao. I appreciate yourcommitment to the NSA, which you have shown, and there's morework to be done. So, thank you.Ms. Davis, could you let Mr. Johnson in? I can take ahint if two people tell me that I ought to put him on thescreen. I would like to just say hello.MR. BURRIS: It is a hint, hint, hint; right?(Pause in proceedings.) MR. LUCIA: Your Honor, may I be heard?THE COURT: Sure, Mr. Lucia. MR. LUCIA: Just a question, while Mr. Johnson isplugging in. You mentioned earlier that you want the partiesto meet before June to discuss the future of the NSA. And literally speaking "parties," we are not a party. Weare the intervenor. So can you provide some clarification toOPOA -- most of the board members are watching -- what role youwant them/us to play in that process going forward.THE COURT: Well, so I think I have said a few times 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
41in these meetings how important I think the members of yourorganization are to make sure that the NSA is embodied in thespirit of OPD.So, I'm going to in June hear from everybody and I wouldlike to know -- it's not going to be a majority rule, but Iwant everybody's perspective on -- on how -- what should happenat this point, whether -- whether the work has been done,whether task 45 is now in a place where it is in compliance andlooks like it would be forever -- not forever but for areasonable period of time.And I recognize so completely that we are not living in aperfect world, and we are all humans and every -- there arealways going to be problems.So that I get. We just have to get over this last --these last hurdles without running into some full-fledged othercrisis the way that we have over the last several years.So there he is. Mr. Johnson, good afternoon.MR. JOHNSON: Good afternoon, Your Honor. Thank youfor the opportunity.THE COURT: Well, you have been identified a couple oftimes. So how are you enjoying your job?MR. JOHNSON: It's been a phenomenal experience. Istarted on June 5th. I relocated -- well, located to the BayArea from the City of Atlanta where I had the pleasure ofserving as the Deputy Chief Operating Officer overseeing a 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
42public safety portfolio which also included the Atlanta PoliceDepartment.So this has certainly been quite an experience. I'veenjoyed every minute of it. I'm a junkie for this publicadministrative work, so it has certainly been a greatexperience thus far and having the pleasure of serving MayorThao and working very closely with Chief Allison.I couldn't agree with you more. Chief Allison has done aphenomenal job from day one. He has certainly set a standardthat we are certainly looking to replicate going forward.So it has been a pleasure supporting him, his leadershipteam. And one of the things that he really put forth the firsttime I met him -- just talking about the work that we are doingwith respect to the NSA -- but he certainly put his money wherehis mouth is. And so I couldn't agree with you more. And the only thing I will just add is I'm absolutelycommitted to supporting this work, specifically supporting theefforts with compliance and constitutional policing.And so our Inspector General, who I have had theopportunity to work with -- and I'm certainly learning quite abit as it relates to her role in all of this as well -- I wantto publicly thank her as well.But you have my word that I will absolutely commit thatthe role I play in this is certainly one that we lead withintegrity and so not just on the police department side but 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
43also the role that the departments that support the OaklandPolice Department, we are leading in that way as well.There are certainly roles for all of us to play withrespect to our public safety agency, the Oakland PoliceDepartment.I want to say thank you for this opportunity. I'm verygrateful to have this moment, but also I certainly look forwardto continuing this discussion in June where I'm hoping for afavorable outcome going forward. Thank you, sir.THE COURT: Well, there are always favorable outcomesno matter what the outcome is. You have got to keep movingforward.And I just -- I want to say one of the things that I havelearned sitting in this chair in the monitorship is thateverybody who is on this screen is integral to the success ofthe NSA; the Mayor, the City Administrator, the Chief, theCommission now, the OPOA, and the leadership within the policedepartment right down the ranks, it just matters.And when one of those people isn't stepping up, the entiresystem has a problem. So I'm delighted that you are -- thatyou are in the role that you are; that you have the commitmentthat you have. And I will look forward to seeing you in June.MR. JOHNSON: Yes, sir, thank you.THE COURT: Okay. Everybody, I will look forward toseeing you in June. If there's something that you think I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425
44should be aware of in the meantime, let me know. And,otherwise, I wish you all well. Thank you.MS. MARTIN: Thank you, Your Honor.MR. BURRIS: Thank you, Your Honor.MR. LUCIA: Thank you, Your Honor.THE CLERK: That concludes our conference. Thank youall.(Proceedings adjourned at 4:37 p.m.) ---oOo--- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the record of proceedings in the above-entitled matter. DATE: February 28, 2024 _________________________________________ Marla F. Knox, CSR No. 14421, RPR, CRR, RMR United States District Court - Official Reporter 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 910111213141516171819202122232425