1 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
M EMQRAN DLJ M City of Poway
ADDITIONAL MATERIALS
(Agenda Related Writings/Documents provided to City Council or Staff after distribution of the Agenda Packet for the January 18, 2022 Council Meeting) DATE:
TO:
FROM:
CONTACT:
SUBJECT:
January 18, 2022
Honorable Mayor and Members of the City Council
Carrie Gallagher, City Clerk ~
(858) 668-4535 or [email protected]
Item 13 - A Resolution Approving an All-Way Stop Control at the Intersection of Martincoit Road and Stone Canyon Road
Attached please find correspondence received after the agenda posting deadline.
Reviewed/Approved By:
Wendy Kaserman
Assistant City Manager
Reviewed By:
Alan Fenstermacher
City Attorney
2 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
ADDITIONAL MATERIALS
From:
To:
Cc:
Subject:
Date:
Attachments:
Gary Holden
~
Carrie Gallagher
All Way Stop -Martincoit and Stone Canyon
Saturday, January 15, 2022 11:36:37 AM
All way stop rebuttal.pdf
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EXTERNAL EMAIL
Please find the attached document for the Jan 18, 2022 City Council Meeting.
If you have any questions, comments or concerns please let me know at your convenience.
Regards,
Gary Holden
3 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
January 15, 2022
Poway City Clerk
Carrie Gallagher
Poway, CA
Dear Ms. Gallagher
The memo is in response to Item #13 on the City Council meeting January 18, 2022 in reference to the All Way Stop at Martincoit and Stone Canyon.
Please have this read, in its entirety, into the record during the meeting. The content should be brief enough to stay within the 2 minute comment limit.
These comments are in opposition to the proposed All Way Stop. In summary, this is a solution in search of a problem. As stated in the TSC report there have been no safety incidents at the intersection and the survey was conducted on the basis of a petition from 14 property owners living in close vicinity of the intersection. The TSC recommendation is based on "May Conditions" from MUTCD. This does not take into account the additional inconvenience for the vehicles traveling through the intersection.
In an email exchange with the TSC, it was confirmed that no alternate methods were considered other than the All Way Stop.
"Staff received a request for a stop sign along with a petition of surrounding property owners, so that is what was analyzed."
Given the light justification for two additional stop signs and no apparent attempt to look into alternative solutions, as stated above; This is a solution looking for a problem.
There are viable non-stopping alternatives available if needed. The MUTCD manual contains signage such as:
CROSS TRAFFIC
DOES NOT STOP
W4-4P
oncoming traffic.
That can be placed on the east side on Martincoit facing the 4 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
W7•U
And, With
the
appropriate
Speed
Plaque
W13-1
P
on
the
southbound
entry
into
the
intersection.
These signs
would
seem
to
be
reasonable
alternatives
to
stopping
on
average
an
additional
2,200
vehicles
per
day
or
approximately
800,000
stops
annually.
A
considerable
inconvenience
to
all
who
travel
the
corner
for
no
documented
additional
safety.
Personally,
I've
lived
on
Highlands
Terrace
for
24 years
and
have
been
through
the
intersection
roughly
17,000
times.
I've
never
had
a
single
incident
where
I
felt
unsafe
for
myself
or
anyone
else.
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
propose
these
alternatives
with
the
possibility
that
the
TSC
will
consider
these
and
other non-stop
alternatives.
Regards, Gary
Holden
13720
HIGHLANDS
TERRACE
POWAY,
CA
619-954
-7936
5 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
From:
To:
Date:
Gayle Fetsch
Qtv....Qer:ls
Tuesday, January 18, 2022 7:50: 18 AM
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EXTERNAL EMAIL
I'm writing to express my belief that a stop sign at Martincoit/Stone Canyon is long overdue as it is a very dangerous blind intersection.
Thank you.
Gayle Fetsch
14321 Twisted Branch Road, Poway, CA 92064
6 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
From:
To:
Date:
Gayle Fetsch
Qty_Qerls
Tuesday, January 18, 2022 7:50:18 AM
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EXTERNAL EMAIL
I'm writing to express my belief that a stop sign at Martincoit/Stone Canyon is long overdue as it is a very dangerous blind intersection.
Thank you.
Gayle Fetsch
14321 Twisted Branch Road, Poway, CA 92064
7 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
From: To: Subject: Date: FYI
Melody
Rocco
.Qty_Qm FW:
All
-Way
Stop
Control
at
Martincoit
Road
and
Stone
Canyon
Road
Tuesday,
January
18,
2022
1:05:38
PM
From:
m.kelsey@cox
.net
<[email protected]>
Sent:
Tuesday,
January
18,
2022
12 :59
PM
To:
Melody
Rocco
<MRocco@poway
.org>
Subject:
All-Way
Stop
Control
at
Martincoit
Road
and
Stone
Canyon
Road
EXTERNAL
EMA
IL
Melody
Rocco,
PE,
CFM
City
Engineer
Development
Services
Department
858-668-4653 Dear
Ms.
Rocco,
Per
your
email
dated
January
14,
2022,
I am
writing
you
to
voice
my
support
for
the
All-Way
Stop
Control
at
Martincoit
Road
and
Stone
Canyon
Road
. 1100%
agree
with
the
recommendation
going
before
the
City
Council
at
tonight's
meeting
to
make
that
intersection
an
All-Way
Stop.
I live
just
up
the
street
from
that
intersection
on
Martincoit
Road
and
have
been
there
since
2005.
I
pass
that
intersection
several
times
a day.
It
does
not
matter
which
direction
you
are
travelling
on
Martincoit
Road
or
approaching
the
intersection
from
Stone
Canyon
Road,
that
intersection
is
extremely
dangerous
in
its
current
state
.
I attended
the
City
Council
meeting
several
years
ago
when
the
subject
was
last
studied
and
voted
upon
under
the
previous
Mayor
and
a different
City
Council.
The
"No"
vote
at
the
time
was
driven
by
politics
and
not
common
sense
or
traffic
safety
or
traffic
science
. The
alternative
adopted
to
install
a
sign
and
a
blinking
light
on
Martincoit
Road
was
a
ridiculous
alternative.
As
I recall
at
that
meeting,
the
current
Mayor
who
was
a City
Councilman
at
the
time
said
something
to
the
effect
that
he
hoped
the
alternative
adopted
fixed
the
problem
and
the
City
did
not
need
to
spend
money
to
address
the
issue
in
the
future.
Well,
here
we
are
several
years
later
discussing
the
same
issue
because
the
last
decision
was
a
poor
one.
It's
time
the
current
City
Council
fix
this
safety
problem
once
and
for
all
and
adopt
the
science-based
recommendation
to
make
that
intersection
safer
with
an
All-Way
Stop.
Thank
you
very
much
for
allowing
me
to
provide
you
and
the
City
Council
my
input
on
this
matter.
Sincerely, Mike
Kelsey
M
.Ke
lse
y@Co
x.Net
8 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
From:
To:
Subject:
Date:
Melody Rocco
Q1y__Qerk
FW: All-Way Stop Control at Martincoit Road and Stone Canyon Road Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2: 18:53 PM
From: ALICIA FLOHS <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 2:18 PM
To: Melody Rocco <[email protected]>
Subject: All-Way Stop Control at Martincoit Road and Stone Canyon Road I You don't often get email from aflohs@cox net. Learn why this is important
EXTERNAL EMAIL
Melody Rocco, PE, CFM
City Engineer
Development Services Department
858-668-4653
Dear Ms. Rocco,
Per your email dated January 14, 2022, I am writing you to voice my support for the All-Way Stop Control at Martincoit Road and Stone Canyon Road. I agree with the recommendation going before the City Council at tonight's meeting, 1/18/2022, to make that intersection an All Way Stop.
I have lived at 16232 Martincoit Road for 20+ years and I pass that intersection several times a day. It is extremely dangerous in its current state, especially when the speed limit was moved from 25 mph to 35 mph in a residential area. It does not matter which direction you are traveling on Martincoit Road or approaching the intersection from Stone Canyon Road as cars are moving too quickly up and down both roads. In addition, the vote to proceed with "The Farm" on Espola will only lead to more traffic and a more dangerous scenario with this intersection.
I attended the City Council meeting several years ago when the subject was last studied and voted upon under the previous Mayor and a different City Council. There was a "No" vote to put the all-way stop at that time. The alternative adopted to install a sign and a blinking light on Martincoit Road which did little to deter or impede the danger of the traffic on the road. It's time the current City Council fix this safety problem once and for all and make that intersection safer with an All-Way Stop.
Thank you very much for allowing me to provide you and the City Council my input on this matter.
9 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
Sincerely,
Alicia Flohs
[email protected]
10 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
From:
To:
Subject:
Date:
[email protected]
John Muma
Proposed Stop Sign at Martincoit and Stone Canyon
Saturday, January 15, 2022 9:55:58 AM
I You don't often get email from [email protected]. Learn why this is important
EXTERNAL EMAIL
John,
I am the treasurer, webmaster and email contact person for Green Valley Highlands (HOA), Poway, a homeowner (volunteer board) run organization, within your district.
bttps://greenvalleyhigblandshoa.com/wp-contentluploads/2019/08/lot map.pdf
I recently sent out an email PSA to our 100+ homeowners about the proposed stop sign. I also went to the traffic safety committee meeting last October, as an observer only. I am fairly new to Poway (moved here in 2014) and I had heard about the push for stop sign in the same location circa 2013, and the protest against it at the city council meeting. Dave Grosch used to joke about that meeting; "81 people showed up to comment on a proposed stop sign, then at a meeting later in the year, only five people showed up to comment on a $5 million dollar city budget spending plan".
I thought you might be interested in the feedback I observed at the October meeting {if you weren't there) and the feedback I received from the PSA message I sent out this week:
At the October traffic safety meeting four of our GVHA homeowners commented against the proposed stop sign plan. Several more homeowners of Green Valley, Stone Canyon, and Valle Verde petitioned for and commented they want the stop signs. I think that number of homeowners was about seven, some went off on tangents about widening Martincoit, leveling out the Martincoit/Stone Canyon intersection, adding crosswalks, which was beyond the scope of that traffic safety committee meeting.
Of our GVHA homeowners that commented back to me after the recent PSA message; three are for the stop sign, three are neutral, three are against it. One person asked if this related to the anticipated traffic increase from The Farm development. I am neutral on it, feeling that this is a bit beyond the purview of our HOA, being well outside of it.
I just wanted to pass these stats on to you.
11 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
(I'll
forward
you
the
PSA
sent
to
GVHA
homeowners.)
One
of
our
board
members,
Ted
Reynolds,
ask
me
to
me
to
send
out
the
PSA,
as
he
has
social
connections
with
Barry
Leonard,
and
Ted
and
Barry
agreed
that
the
stop
sign
is
a
bad
idea.
Barry
told
me
he
had
not
heard
of
any
proposed
stop
sign,
Ted
was
the
first
to
make
him
aware
of
it.
Ironically,
his
district
homeowners
had
petitioned
for
it
several
months
earlier,
and
triggered
the
traffic
study
and
report.
Regards, Don
Laverty
13254
Arroya
Vista
Rd.
310 386
4363
greenvalleyhighlandshoa.com
12 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
From: To: Subject: Date:
Bob
Shutte
r
Q1y__Qerk Stop
signs
proposed
at
Martincoit
and
Stone
Canyon
in
Green
Valley
Sunday,
January
16,
2022
5:52:43
PM
I
You
don't
often
get
email
from
mikkbob@sbcglobal
.net.
Le
arn
why
this
is important
EXTERNA
L EMA
IL
I am
writing
to
voice
my
opposition
to
the
installation
of
stop
signs
at
the
intersection
of
Martincoit
and
Stone
Canyon.
This
was
tried
a few
years
back,
and
the
city
counsel
voted
it
down,
for
good
reason
. The
traffic
study
done
at
the
time
demonstrated
that
the
installation
of
stop
signs
was
not
justified,
and
I highly
doubt
if
traffic
has
changed
much
since
.
The
main
issue
I see
is
drivers speeding
down
the
hill
around
the
curve
above
the
intersection.
There
are
the
same
drivers
that
blow
through
the
stop
sign
at
the
intersection
of
Martincoit
and
Rostrada.
What
makes
you
believe
they
will
obey
signs
at
Stone
Canyon?
There
may
be
better
solutions
then
making
everyone
stop
when
it
is
over-all
unnecessary
. Speed
bumps/pedestals
along
with
signage
on
the
approach
coming
down
the
hill
should
be
considered
before
disrupting
traffic
flow
resulting
from
the
installation
of
stop
signs
that
are
surely
to
be
ignored
by
many.
I see
a greater
potential
danger
when
people
turning
left from
Stone
Canyon
on
to
Martincoit
believe
they
are
safe
to
go,
just
because
they
think
speeders
coming
down
the
hill
are
going
to
stop
at
a sign
.
Sincerely, Bob
Shutter,
Green
Valley,
Poway
13 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
From:
To:
Subject:
Date:
JJm Vanderveen
lli..Qerk
Stop,sign at Martincoit and stone canyon
Tuesday, January 18, 2022 1:08:54 PM
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EXTERNAL EMAIL
This sima very dangerous intersection and it needs a stop sign. I fear that a fast moving vehicle may T-bone me every time I turn from Stone Canyon to go north down the Martincoit hill.
Thanks.
Tim Vanderveen
8584371772
Sent from my iPhone
14 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
From:
To:
Subject:
Date:
Judith LaBarbera
Qt¥...Qerk
Traffic Control: stop sign at Stone Canyon and Martincoit Monday, January 17, 2022 7:28: 12 PM
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EXTERNAL EMAIL
I support the installation of a 3-way stop at this intersection.
Judith LaBarbera
12834 Indian Trail Rd Poway
APN 275-352-04
Property owner
Sent from my iPhone
15 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
From: To: Subject: Date:
Jess
ica
Studarus
lli..Qer!s Yes
to
a
stop
sign
at
Martincoit
and
Stone
Canyon
Sunday,
January
16,
2022
3:46:10
PM
I
You
don't often
get
email
from
[email protected].
Lea
rn
why
this
is
important
eXT
ERNA
I::,
II
1 Hello
,
We
own
a home
3 houses
from
the
dangerous
intersection
in
question
. We
expect
the
City
Council
to
make
practical
adjustments
to
the
road
to
maintain
a pro-pedestrian
community
and
family-
safe
roads.
Our
community
is
changing,
traffic
has
increased
, and
a safety
intervention
at
the
intersection
of
Martincoit
and
Stone
Canyon
is
overdue.
To
access
the
walking
and
horse
trails
in
our
neighborhood
, I have
to
cross
this
intersection
(where
I have
nearly
been
hit
as
a
pedestrian
multiple
times)
. I also
have
to
brave
the
speeding
downhill
traffic
on
Martincoit.
I am
for
whatever
traffic
calming
, traffic
slowing,
pro
pedestrian
interventions
we
can
implement:
-create
right
angles
for
the
turns
to
make
clearer
stops
and
to
slow
traffic
-create
a pedestrian
berth
and
a crosswalk
.
-create
a walking
berth
on
Martincoit
, narrowing
the
road
and
slowing
traffic
-yes,
create
a 3
way
stop.
Thank
you,
Jessica
Studarus
16 of 16
January 18, 2022, Item #13
January 10, 2022
Dear City Clerk, City of Poway,
RECEIVED
JAN I 8 2022
CITY OF POWAY
CITY CLERK'S OFFICE
I am writing in regards to the proposed project of the All-Way Stop Control at the Intersection of Martincoit Road and Stone Canyon Road in Poway, CA. Many households in the Green Valley Highlands Estates and the Green Valley Highlands are opposed to this project. There is a reason why it wasn't put in when the roads were originally built and why it wasn't approved at the last attempt. It is already a good working intersection. The records show clocked car speeds within the accepted range at that intersection and only 1 accident in the long history of the intersection. This should not denote a need for additional stop signs. If you place a stop sign for Martincoit going north at that intersection, it wil.1 definitely create accidents. It will create rear ending accidents since that is a curvy corner just south of the intersection. If you have several· cars stopped at that intersection going north it will be too short of a notice for someone to' stop in the appropriate time. This could result in rear ending which could potentially push cars down the gully into the home located on that corner since there are no guard rails. You could be creating more of a problem with this project.
Maybe more information should be shared with Painted Rock School parents to please drive slower in the neighborhood when driving children to and from school. That is where the majority of the traffic comes from.
Thank you for your time.
A concerned neighbor