Minutes of the Regular Meeting
of the Police Oversight Commission
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September 11 , 2025
TELECONFERENCE INFORMATION:
Pursuant to Government Code Section 54953(b), Commissioner Carlos Perea will participate in the meeting via teleconference from Hotel Villa Florida Puebla( lobby) in Puebla, Mexico, Blvd Atlixcayotl, Acceso a la Zona Angelopolis 1100, 72810 San Andres Cholula, Pue. The Agenda will be posted at the teleconference location and any member of the public wishing to address the legislative body directly may do so at the teleconference location pursuant to Government Code Section 54954. 3.
REGULAR MEETING - 5: 00 P. M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBER
22 Civic Center Plaza Santa Ana, CA 92701
CALL TO ORDER
MINUTES: Chair Carpenter called the meeting to order at 5:03 P.M.
ATTENDANCE Commission Members Evangeline Gawronski
Amalia Mejia
Carlos Perea
Nadin Said
Danny Vega
Vice Chair Gabriel Castillo Laughton
Chair Keith Carpenter
Staff Members
Independent
Oversight Director T. Jack Morse Jr.
Deputy City Manager Sylvia Vazquez
Deputy Chief Roland Andrade
Police Commander Jorge Lopez
Assistant City Attorney Jonathan Martinez
Recording Secretary Abigail Y. Alcala
POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 1 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025
ROLL CALL
MINUTES: Recording Secretary Abigail Y. Alcala conducted roll call.
Commissioners Gawronski, Mejia, Perea, Said, and Vega, Vice Chair Castillo Laughton, and Chair Carpenter were present.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
MINUTES: Chair Carpenter led the Pledge of Allegiance.
PUBLIC COMMENTS— Public comments will be held during the beginning of the meeting for all comments on agenda items. Members of the public may provide comments on any agenda or non-agenda items within the subject matter jurisdiction of the commission.
MINUTES: Thefollowingindividualsaddressed the Commissionin person:
1. David Pulido spokeregardingproposed changes to thePolice Oversight Commission Ordinance, requestedjustice for Noe Rodriguez, and an independent investigation regarding the incident.
2. Abraham Quintanarequestedjustice for Noe Rodriguez, an independentinvestigation regarding the incident, and the commission explore police- related ordinances implemented in other cities.
3. Carina Munoz spoke regarding proposed changes to the Police Oversight Commission Ordinance.
4. Emma Gottfried spoke regarding proposed changes to the Police Oversight Commission Ordinance, requestedjustice for Noe Rodriguez, and an independent investigation regarding the incident.
5. Bulamaro Vicente spoke regardingproposed changesto the Police Oversight Commission Ordinance.
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CONSENT CALENDAR
RECOMMENDED ACTION: Approve staff recommendations on the following Consent Calendar Items: 1 and 2.
MINUTES: At 5:21 P. M., the Consent Calendar was considered.
MOTION: Vice Chair Castillo Laughton moved to approve Consent Calendar Item Nos. 1 and 2, seconded by Commissioner Vega.
The motion carried, 7-0, by the following roll call vote:
AYES: COMMISSIONER GAWRONSKI, COMMISSIONER MEJIA,
COMMISSIONER PEREA, COMMISSIONER SAID,
COMMISSIONER VEGA, VICE CHAIR CASTILLO
LAUGHTON, CHAIR CARPENTER
NOES: NONE
ABSTAIN: NONE
ABSENT: NONE
Status: 7— 0 — Pass
1. Excused Absences
Recommended Action: Excuse the absent members.
2. Minutes from the Regular Meetings of August 14, 2025.
Recommended Action: Approve minutes.
END OF CONSENT CALENDAR***
STUDY SESSION
MINUTES: At 5:22 P.M., the Study Session was considered.
3. Police Oversight Commission Ordinance Work Study Session Recommended Action: Receive presentation on the Police Oversight Commission Ordinance and provide input to staff.
MINUTES: Deputy City Manager Sylvia Vazquez stated the commissions' input would be presented to the City Council at a future meeting.
Independent Oversight Director T. Jack Morse gave a presentation regarding the Police Oversight Commission ordinance highlighting the hybrid oversight model:
investigating incidents and problematic patterns.
CommissionerGawronskiasked whether SantaAna has an investigativeprocess to determinecrimepercentagesand community support in cities that have seen policy changes implemented.
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Independent Oversight Director Morse stated there was both trust and distrust segmentsof the public and that using a pattern-and-practice method to identify persistent, ongoingproblemsandimplementsolutions.
DeputyChiefRolandAndradeclarifiedthe PoliceDepartmenthas not usedan investigative process to determine crime percentages.
Commissioner Mejia asked whether the hybrid model's parallel investigation would applytoallcasesandif theIndependentOversightDirectormustwaitforthePolice Department to finish their investigations. She prioritized improving community relations with Internal Affairs, cautioned against limiting the ordinance, voiced concerns about the mandatory ride- along, and recommended funding police lawsuits via Police Officers Association ( POA) contract changes.
Independent Oversight Director Morse stated the hybrid model allows for independent investigations of individual incidents that are considered of great bodily harm. He clarified the investigationwould be conductedalongside the Internal AffairsinvestigationduetoPublicSafetyOfficersProceduralBillof Rights (POBAR) limitations and stated long term change comes from identifying problematic patterns and investigatingall individualincidentswouldnot be possibledue to limited resources.
Vice Chair Castillo Laughton asked whether the current policy allows for policy review and the benefits of adoption of a new ordinance. He expressed concern with removingtheflexibilityfortheCommissionto choosetheapproachandstatesthe proposedchangeswouldremoveauthoritytoinvestigateindividualincidents. He askedwhetherthereareanydisadvantagesto thehybridmodeland for clarification regardingconflictsthecurrentordinancehas withthe CityCharter.
Independent Oversight Director Morse clarified the current policy allows for review and theproposedchangeswouldaddpriorityand frameworkfor a pattern-and- practicemodel. Hestatedtherewouldberesourceconstraintswitheverymodel, and regardless of the model, the director' s role is purely advisory.
DeputyCityManagerVazquezclarifiedtheexistingordinanceconflictswiththeCity Charter, asthe Charteronlyallowsfortheappointmentof up to threedirectors. She statedanyadditionaldirectorswouldrequireanamendmenttotheCharter.
Commissioner Said asked for clarification regarding the investigative process for the Independent Oversight Director and the cases that would be investigated. She expressedconcernregardingthe lack of resourcesto investigateall complaints, notingmostinvolveofficer-involvedshootingsor use-of-forceresultingin deathor seriousinjury. Shestatedthehybridmodeloffersa goodbalance, recommended additionaltrainingtoprovidemoreinsightandreviewingtort claimsto findcommon trends, and asked if the proposed changes address POBAR violation concerns.
IndependentOversightDirectorMorseclarifiedthecasesthatwouldbeinvestigated are officer-involved shootings or use-of-force resulting in death or great bodily injury andtheinvestigationprocesswouldconsistofrespondingto thescene, conducting a parallel investigation with Internal Affairs, writing a report of findings to the POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 4 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025
Commission, and submitting the Commission's recommendations to the City Manager.
Deputy City Manager Vazquez stated the hybrid model would address the initial concerns regarding possible POBAR violations.
Senior Assistant City Attorney Tamara Bogosian stated the hybrid model process would have to be reviewed to determine if any components need to be met and conferred with the Police Union.
Commissioner Vega recommended the public watch the Council meeting of July 15, 2025 and spoke in support of the additional trainings and ride-along requirements proposed. He asked Independent Oversight Director T. Jack Morse to provide insight into the proposed trainings, whether the proposed changes presented at the July 15t" City Council meeting are consideredpattern-and-practice investigations, whether there would be any other changes needed, and whether removing restrictions would put the City at risk of liability.
Independent Oversight Director Morse spoke regarding his experience with ride- alongs and attending the reserve academy. He stated the proposed changes represent a pattern- and-practice model, and while he had concerns about its current restrictiveness, he acknowledged it would be an effective starting point due to resource limitations.
Senior Assistant City Attorney Bogosian stated removing restrictions would affect privacy protections which does not allow those records to be disclosable to the public and the Independent Oversight Director would have to schedule closed session in order to discuss that information.
CommissionerPerea asked whether the draft ordinance had been presented to City Council and emphasized the current ordinance is compliant with state law. He asked for clarification regarding the current issue between the Sheriff' s office and the Sheriff' s Oversight Commission, expressed concern regarding how that the proposed ordinance changes would strip the commission of its investigatory powers but appreciated the hybrid model. He expressed concern regarding previous Police Officer Associations Memorandums of Understanding ( MOU) and would like the commission to retain the ability to make recommendations. He also requested the ordinance be updated to require consistent posting on the website of a redacted summary of complaints submitted to the Commission.
Deputy City Manager Vazquez clarified the draft ordinance has not been presented to City Council and any recommendations by the Commission would be used to refine the language and create a draft ordinance to present to City Council.
Assistant City Attorney Jonathan Martinez clarified that while the ordinance is currently in compliance with state law, issues could arise with the dual- track investigation, which might violate POBAR, therefore, the amendments are intended to create a process that avoids the possibility of lawsuits.
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Independent Oversight Director Morse stated the case between the Sheriff' s office and the Sheriff's Oversight Commission is regarding Penal Code 832.7. and is currently being litigated.
SeniorAssistantCityAttorneyBogosianclarifiedthatalthoughthe Commissionmay discuss the MOU, they must avoid making suggestions, changes, or otherwise interferingwiththeCityManager's rightto negotiate, as theCityChartersetsthe terms of that authority.
Chair Carpenter voiced concern that previous Commission recommendations were notreflectedin theproposedordinancechangesandspokein favorof thehybrid model presented to the Commission.
Commissioner Mejia expressed concern with instances where culture is built into departmentpracticesand trainingsand askedwhethertherewasa way to ensure mechanismsfor accountability. She voicedconcernregardingrequiredride-alongs and requested legal protections for Commissioners when they participate. She recommendedaddingthescopeof workto the Commission's bylawsinsteadof changingtheordinancetoavoidstrippingtheCommissionof itspower, andasked whether the changesproposed by the Ad Hoc committee would remove the Commission' s investigative powers.
Independent Oversight Director Morse stated the pattern-and-practice model is the most beneficial, clarifyingthat the Ad Hoc changespermit pattern-and-practice investigations but not individual ones, and stated this revised structure would still allow the Director to review Internal Affairs findings and issue recommendations.
Vice Chair Castillo Laughton asked whether the auditor model allows for the review of individual complaints and whether the Independent Oversight Director's input would be factored into the final decision of the findings. He expressed concern regardingremovingtheCommission'sabilitytogiverecommendationonindividual cases and recommended the Commission be allowed to operate under the current ordinance first to determine if the existing process works before implementing the limitations of the auditor model.
Independent Oversight Director Morse confirmed the Independent Oversight Director would be able to review individual complaints after Internal Affairs concludes its investigation and issue recommendations based on the findings, but would not be able to conduct a parallel investigation. He confirmed the auditor model would not allow for recommendations on individual cases.
Discussionensuedregardingthe process and restrictionsof the auditor model investigation.
CommissionerSaid spokeregardingprioritizationof complaintsand the potential for an overburdened workload under the investigatory model. She added that any patternofoverlylongInternalAffairsinvestigationsshouldbespecificallylooked into.
DeputyChiefAndradestatedthePoliceDepartmentisfullypreparedtosupportthe Council's decision and adjust as needed in order to be effective, whether that be POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 6 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025
staff changes or putting safe guards in place to ensure Internal Affairs investigations do not reach the one-year statute of limitations.
Commissioner Perea requested a copy of the letter Commissioner Carpenter wrote regarding the proposed ordinance changes and requested clarification regarding the process for distributing a commissioner's correspondence from the City Manager' s Office to the rest of the Commission. He stated his belief that the hybrid model better reflects the resources available to the Commission, and requested officer threats of bodily harm and sexual harassment complaints against a member of thepublicbe investigated. He alsoaskedfor clarificationregardingthe deciding factor used to determine which complaints the Commission investigates and expressed his wish to maintain some investigatory power.
Assistant City Attorney Martinez stated that because bylaws have not yet been adopted, staff is still working on establishing policies. He clarified the Director and Commission will not automatically investigate every complaint, rather the Commission must first pass a majority vote to direct the Director on which complaint to investigate.
Commissioner Vega requested clarification on who originally requested the ordinance amendments and spoke regarding the potential ramifications of conducting an improper investigation.
Deputy City Manager Vazquez clarified City staff worked collaboratively to request the amendments, not the City Council
Chair Carpenter inquired whether the Commission would see a draft of the ordinance before it is presented to the City Council.
Deputy City Manager Vazquez spoke regarding Council's discretion to amend the ordinance and indicate the Commission' s roles and responsibility.
END OF STUDY SESSION***
STAFF COMMENTS
MINUTES: None.
COMMISSIONER COMMENTS
MINUTES: Commissioner Gawronski requested a key of the acronyms used throughout the ordinance to facilitate her review.
CommissionerMejiainquiredregardingtheuseofherpersonalemailtoconductCity business, the feasibility of having a City issued email address published, and suggestedinvestigatingtheNoe Rodriguezincidentundertheguidanceof the current ordinance. She commented on allegations that Internal Affairs has deleted footage and stressed the importanceof trust between the communityand InternalAffairs.
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CommissionerPerea spoke in support of the hybrid model and the need to maintain investigatorypower, echoedCommissionerMejia's commentsregardingtheNoe Rodriguez investigation, and reported he will be requesting to agendize a public hearingat theOctobermeetingrelatedto thePoliceDepartmentsuseof military equipmentat theJuneprotests. He commentedon recentSupremeCourtrulingon Noem v. Vasquez- Perdomo and how the decision will affect many City residents.
CommissionerSaid thanked staff and the public for their input and participation.
CommissionerVegathankedstafffor theirhardworkand statedhispreferencefor thepattern-and-practiceinvestigationmodel. Hestatedthatregardlessofthemodel that is implemented, the Commissionwill do great work and should not wait for City Council to approve the ordinance.
Vice Chair CastilloLaughtonthankedeveryonefor the productivedialogue, and thanked Independent Oversight Director T. Jack Morse for his in- depth presentation. Hespokeinoppositiontotheordinanceamendmentproposedbythe AdHoc, indicatedthatif a changemustbe madehe is in favorof thehybridmodel, and requested clarification on the Independent Oversight Director's ability to investigate the Noe Rodriguez incident
AssistantCityAttorneyJonathanMartinezstatedthe NoeRodriguezincidentis currentlybeinginvestigatedby theAttorneyGeneralanddueto existinginternal policiesandprocedures, theCityisunabletocontinueitsowninvestigationuntilthe Attorney General's investigationis complete.
Chair Carpenterstated he is not in favor of the eviscerationof the original ordinance and hopes the Commissioncan reach a consensusto move the issue forward.
ADJOURNMENT- Adjourn the Police Oversight Commission Meeting.
MINUTES: Chair Carpenter adjourned the Police Oversight Commission meeting at 8: 02 P. M.
Thenextmeetingof thePoliceOversightCommissionis scheduledforOctober9, 2025 at 5: 00 P. M.
Respectfully submitted:
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Re o din ecretary
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