Sebastopol City Council
September 5, 2023

City Council
Mayor Neysa Hinton
Vice Mayor Diana Rich
Sandra Maurer
Jill McLewis
Stephen Zollman
City Manager
Larry McLaughlin
[email protected]
Assistant City Manager/City Clerk, MMC
Mary Gourley
[email protected]

CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
MINUTES FOR Regular City Council Meeting of August 1, 2023 As Approved by the City Council at their regular meeting of September 5, 2023 Please note that minutes of meetings are not meant to be verbatim minutes and are meant to be the City’s record of a summary of actions that took place at the meeting. The vote/action is the required information of the meeting actions that took place. Approved minutes are available on the City Council Meetings page. https://www.ci.sebastopol.ca.us/Meeting-Event.aspx
Meeting was held in Person and Virtual /Remote Participation Zoom Link used for providing public comment/Live Stream is utilized for viewing only of Meeting The public is advised that pursuant to Government Code section 54957.5 all writings submitted to the City and City Council are public records and will be made available for review. 6:00 pm City Council Regular Meeting
Call to Order: Mayor Hinton called the Regular Meeting to Order at 6:03 p.m.

Roll Call:

Present: Mayor Neysa Hinton
Vice Mayor Diana Gardner Rich
Councilmember Sandra Maurer
Councilmember Stephen Zollman

Absent: Councilmember Jill McLewis
Staff: City Manager/City Attorney Larry McLaughlin
Assistant City Manager/City Clerk Mary Gourley
City Engineer Mario Landeros
Interim Fire Chief Jack Piccinini
Planning Director Kari Svanstrom
Police Chief Ron Nelson
Public Works Superintendent Dante Del Prete
STATEMENTS OF ABSTENTION BY COUNCIL MEMBERS: None
SALUTE TO THE FLAG: Mayor Hinton led the salute to the flag.

MOTION:

Councilmember Maurer moved and Councilmember Zollman seconded the motion to approve continuation of Public Hearing Item Number 8 to the September 5, 2023 City Council meeting to be held at 6:00 pm by In Person and Zoom format.

Mayor Hinton called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Agenda Item Number: 1 Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Ayes: Councilmembers Maurer, Zollman, Vice Mayor Rich and Mayor Hinton Noes: None

Absent: Councilmember McLewis
Abstain: None
City Council Action: Approved Continuation of Public Hearing Item Number 8 to the September 5, 2023 City Council meeting to be held at 6:00 pm by In Person and Zoom format.

Minute Order Number: 2023-183

PROCLAMATIONS/PRESENTATIONS:

The following was presented:
• Proclamation: Proclaiming August 26, 2023 as WOMENS EQUALITY DAY, marking the 103rd anniversary of the enactment of the 19th Amendment, celebrating the achievements of women and recommitting to realizing gender equality in our City, including equal pay for equal work Reference Order Number: 2023-175
STATEMENTS OF CONFLICTS OF INTEREST: Conflicts of interest may arise in situations where a public official deliberating towards a decision, has an actual or potential financial interest in the matter before the Council. In accordance with state law, an actual conflict of interest is one that would be to the private financial benefit of a public official, a relative or a business with which the Councilmember is associated. A potential conflict of interest is one that could be to the private financial benefit of a Councilmember, a relative or a business with which the Councilmember is associated. A Councilmember must publicly announce potential and actual conflicts of interest, and, in the case of actual conflict of interest, must refrain from participating in debate on the issue or from voting on the issue and must remove themselves from the dais.

There were no stated conflicts of interest from Councilmembers.

PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA (FIRST COMMENT PERIOD):

Up to Twenty (20) Minute Time Limit (Two Minutes for up to ten speakers). Additional public comment will be held at the end of the discussion and action items for up to an additional twenty (20) minutes. Mayor has discretion to allow for additional time beyond the 20 minutes allocated for public comment dependent upon the subject matter or number of speakers.

Process for calling on Speakers: Mayor or designee shall ask for public comment as follows: Speakers to be called on in an alternate manner (One speaker in person to be called on first; then one speaker remote to be called on second with additional speakers to be called on in the same manner) based upon the time limit.

Kyle commented as follows: Most of my comments tonight are about policy and procedure. I will begin with the fact that I was not aware from the last meeting that I needed to follow up on my request for additional information regarding the one-year ban from previous Councilmembers coming before Council and looking for policy. But as City Manager stated when he spoke to members of the media, suggested it was my responsibility to follow up With that, I gave very specific requests regarding the city's responsibility in order to enact that policy.

Secondly, I want to also bring to attention that maybe the city has separate ordinances or a separate policy regarding absent City Councilmembers. But I tend to find there is a 60 day policy regarding the City Council meetings. This is an awkward situation considering the number of meetings the Council is chosen to cancel over the summer. That would put Councilmember McLewis past the 60 days. It is not my intention the private session meetings are considered part of that 60 days. So here we are, put in a position to have a Councilmember absent from regularly scheduled open public City Council meetings for greater than 60 days. Hoping for some response from that from the City.

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Linda commented as follows: I am living proof that women in local politics have received lesser equality with men. As far as stupidity goes, specifically what I’m referring to, is the water meters. The Chinese government requires that every piece of electronics made in China have a factor built-in so that they can control it. They can surveil it. So there are all these wireless water meters you put in at $2.2 million plus costs, not to mention all the health costs due to radiation around the clock. Everywhere we go. That is also the PG&E meters are made in China so the government can control them. In Guam, where we have got airports and also a marine base, that was the first place that the Guam water authority was first with the meters. The entity that has provided these Chinese made wireless meters. So I’m suggesting that you all get your heads out of the sand. We need to start replacing these wireless devices made in China with much safer U.S.-made analogs mechanical meters.

Glenn commented as follows: Citizen of Sebastopol. First and foremost, thank you, all of you, for your commitment to this city and the civic dialogue we have. I am here to talk about something not on the agenda, but has been on the agenda in the past. Recently, it is about the conversion from commercial into residential in upcoming projects. As you are all familiar, that was something that was going to be discussed. I don't know if it got moved around. But in the recent past, I had been watching the development across from our home. The Council agreed to extend residential into the commercial project part of that. In the past, Council has allowed conversion from commercial designated to be converted into residential. I think it is incumbent on the planning department and the Council to be aware that these developers were coming into our city have, it is incumbent on them to get out of commercial space while they have already a large occupancy rate. I am thinking that it needs to be reviewed closely. They will design the buildings differently if they know from the beginning they will be residential. We would not have that building the way it looks right now if they knew ahead of time it was going to be a residential building.

Mayor Hinton responded to public comment as follows: For the last speaker, you can write us a detailed letter.

We always get the mail forwarded to us. If you write to the Council, is on the city website to let you know. And then you will have more than two minutes. Then to the other speaker, talked about a previous Councilmember in a complaint about whether they were allowed to represent due to their occupation somebody. I believe that complaint has to be to the political practices commission (FPPC). I think that is where that complaint should be lodged. If you see that somebody has broken a rule or you believe they have.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: Councilmember McLewis is within the allowed time period for absences from meetings.

CONSENT CALENDAR: The consent agenda consists of items that are routine in nature and do not require additional discussion by the City Council or have been reviewed by the City Council previously. These items may be approved by one motion without discussion unless a member of the City Council requests that the item be taken off the consent calendar.

The Mayor will read the consent calendar items; ask if a Councilmember wishes to remove one or more items from the consent calendar; and then open public comment to the members of the public in attendance. At this time, a member of the public may speak for up to three minutes on the entire consent calendar and request at that time that an agenda item or items be removed for discussion.

If an item or items are removed from the consent calendar, the item shall be placed at the end of the regular agenda items unless otherwise determined by the Mayor or Mayor Pro Tern.

Councilmembers may comment on Consent Calendar items or ask for minor clarifications without the need for pulling the item for separate consideration. Items requiring deliberation should be pulled for separate consideration and shall be placed at the end of the regular agenda items unless otherwise determined by the Mayor or Mayor Pro Tem.

Mayor Hinton read the consent calendar.

Mayor Hinton asked if any Councilmember wanted to remove a consent calendar item.

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Councilmember’s Request(s): Councilmember Zollman requested item number 4 be removed from the consent calendar.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows on Item 6: As I look at this report, I am curious about why we do not have the SSO rates per year per 100 miles of sort and a comparison to the regional averages. In the report, superintendent states that that is the expectation that the data will be included in the report. It is not included in this report. I am curious about why that is. On page one of three in the e discussion section, it says that the attachments to this report provide information described above with the exception of the SSO rate what this remains in comparison to the California regency average rates I’m wondering why it is, I’m not challenging it. I want to know why is not included in this report.

Superintendent Dante Del Prete commented as follows: That information is not included in the graph credit is below the bullet points on that same page. It is not included in the graph such as the 1 SSO for 32 miles of sewer main
Mayor Hinton opened for public comment on consent calendar item(s) only.

Linda Berg commented as follows: Discussed the annual performance report and I am wondering what the report is about. At the same time, since it is brought up annual performance reports, I’m wondering when Dante’s annual performance report is going to be looked at. Plus, because of the fact that that is a way we do not have annual performance reports, apparently. Back when, the previous city director unilaterally did whatever he wanted with this town for businesses because there is no oversight and nobody was looking at him. I would appreciate some of these annual performance reports on the city employees that they were made a little more public.

1. Approval of City Council Meeting Minutes for Special Meeting Closed Session Meeting of July 10, 2023; Performance Evaluation (Responsible Department: City Management) City Council Action: Approved City Council Meeting Minutes for Special Meeting Closed Session Meeting of July 10, 2023; Performance Evaluation
Minute Order Number: 2023-176

2. Approval of City Council Meeting Minutes for Regular Meeting of July 18, 2023 (Responsible Department:

City Administration)
City Council Action: Approved City Council Meeting Minutes for Regular Meeting of July 18, 2023 Minute Order Number: 2023-177
3 Extension of Proclamation Proclaiming the Existence of a Local Homeless Emergency. Government Code Section 8630, requires that the Council review the need for continuing the local emergency at least every 60 days until such local emergency is terminated.
o First Proclaimed: November 30, 2021
o First Extension was approved January 18, 2022
o Second Extension was approved: March 15, 2022
o Third Extension was approved: May 3, 2022
o Fourth Extension was approved: June 21, 2022
o Fifth Extension was approved: August 2, 2022
o Sixth Extension was approved: September 20, 2022
o Seventh Extension was approved: November 15, 2022
o Eighth Extension: January 3, 2023 City Council Meeting o Ninth Extension: February 27, 2023 City Council Meeting o Tenth Extension: April 18, 2023 Council Meeting
Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

o Eleventh Extension: June 6, 2023
o Twelfth Extension: August 1, 2023
o Proposed Extension Needed within 60 days or (September 19, 2023) City Council Action: Approved 3 Extension of Proclamation Proclaiming the Existence of a Local Homeless Emergency. Government Code Section 8630, requires that the Council review the need for continuing the local emergency at least every 60 days until such local emergency is terminated. o First Proclaimed: November 30, 2021
o First Extension was approved January 18, 2022
o Second Extension was approved: March 15, 2022
o Third Extension was approved: May 3, 2022
o Fourth Extension was approved: June 21, 2022
o Fifth Extension was approved: August 2, 2022
o Sixth Extension was approved: September 20, 2022
o Seventh Extension was approved: November 15, 2022
o Eighth Extension: January 3, 2023 City Council Meeting o Ninth Extension: February 27, 2023 City Council Meeting o Tenth Extension: April 18, 2023 Council Meeting
o Eleventh Extension: June 6, 2023
o Twelfth Extension: August 1, 2023
o Proposed Extension Needed within 60 days or (September 19, 2023) Minute Order Number: 2023-178
Resolution Number:

4. Approval of Fire Chief Job Description (Revised to meet current standards) (Responsible Department: City Management/HR Consultant) (REMOVED FOR DISCUSSION)

5. Receipt of Annual Performance Report on Sanitary Sewer System (Responsible Department, Public Works) City Council Action: Approved Receipt of Annual Performance Report on Sanitary Sewer System Minute Order Number: 2023-180

6. Receipt of Request for Designation of Voting Delegate and Alternates for the League of California Cities Annual Conference 2023, Sacramento, CA (Per adoption of the city budget, City Council attendance at conferences have been cancelled; therefore item is informational only and no action will be taken (Responsible Department: City Administration)
City Council Action: Approved Receipt of Request for Designation of Voting Delegate and Alternates for the League of California Cities Annual Conference 2023, Sacramento, CA (Per adoption of the city budget, City Council attendance at conferences have been cancelled; therefore item is informational only and no action will be taken Minute Order Number: 2023-181
MOTION:

Mayor Hinton moved and Councilmember Zollman seconded the motion to Consent Calendar Items 1, 2, 3, 5, and

6. Item Number 4 has been removed.

Mayor Hinton called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Ayes: Councilmembers Maurer, Zollman, Vice Mayor Rich and Mayor Hinton Noes: None

Absent: Councilmember McLewis
Abstain: None
INFORMATIONAL ITEMS/PRESENTATIONS:

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Presentations are to be 10 minutes or less.

7. Informational Presentation from Sebastopol World Friends Visits to Sister City Takeo City. This will be a verbal presentation from the Sebastopol World Friends on their most recent visit to Takeo City conducted July 2023.

Sebastopol World Friends provided an informational presentation on the recent visit to Sister City Takeo City.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: On behalf of myself, you are always spectacular representatives for the City and ambassadors. To have the students be able to go 3 1/2 years later, that is commitment. I'm glad you guys had such a great time. To have that trip happen would've been, at this point, with everything else we have endured during covid. We love a visit and we love that you guys were able to have that good experience.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: Given all of the global unrest and kind of negativity we face in the media and elsewhere in the world right now, this opportunity to connect with another country in such a personal and important way, I just think that you are incredible ambassadors. These are the sorts of ties that can have kind of cascading impacts throughout generations and that you have touch a lot of people, not just us, but those you speak with and all the others that are parents and children and people with whom you speak. Thank you for making those positive global connections for us.

City Council Action: None – Informational Only
Reference Order Number: 2023-182
PUBLIC HEARING(s):

8. Public Hearing – To Consider, Discuss and Waive Further Reading, Introduce and Conduct First Reading by Title Only Ordinance Amending Chapter 9.28 of the Sebastopol Municipal Code; Mobile Home Rent Stabilization (Responsible Department: City Administration) This item was approved to be continued to the September 5th City Council Meeting to be held at 6:00 pm by zoom and in person.

REGULAR CALENDAR AGENDA ITEMS (DISCUSSION AND/OR ACTION)

9. Discussion and Consideration of Ballot Question and Ordinance for Submission to the Sonoma County Registrar of Voters for November 2023 Special Election (Requestor: Mayor Hinton/Vice Mayor Rich) Mayor Hinton presented the agenda item recommending the City Council Discuss and Consider the Polling Results from the recent polling for a Ballot Question and Ordinance for Submission to the Sonoma County Registrar of Voters for November 2023 Special Election.

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: It was a great experience working with our consultant. Starting with the Friday after our Council meeting. We put our heads together to try to figure out the best way to poll our citizens but for those who may not have been here last time, and for those that are watching online, it was very important for us to hear directly from the public about whether they would be willing to support us trying to bring in more revenue. Whether that be a half cent or maybe that be a quarter percent. And then most particularly, to figure out what their priorities were. I know I learned a lot. The data came in and we are going to hear from Dennis Rosatti on exactly what the breakdown was of who supported all the demographics. The different priorities that we have put out as far as what we should keep funding and what we should, perhaps, think about decreasing funding. It was a good experience. I think you'll hear about publicly from the Mayor about how and what it is where we are urging the rest of our members to support so we can get this on the ballot and start getting revenue we desperately need.

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I just wanted to say, we conducted the meeting at 8:30 am the following morning after the Council meeting. So we have been working on this and it had to happen in the warp speed. We were lucky that our consultant, Dennis Rosatti, who happens to be a citizen and living in the City of Sebastopol and is coming online now, was able to prioritize this for us.

Dennis Rosatti, Rosatti Consulting, provided a presentation to the City Council.

Mayor Hinton opened for questions from Councilmembers.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: Thank you all of your hard work. I've a question about the half percent versus quarter percent but I want to make sure I’m using that language correctly. I'm using percent, not a half cent.

Mr. Rosatti stated that is correct.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I have half percent versus the quarter percent. When I look at the numbers, I see what the summary recommends, but when I look at the numbers that summarize the data, my impression is that there was more support for a half percent then for a quarter percent but that did not seem to change as people run from the beginning or to the end. So maybe you can help me understand that I must be must reading something here. The conclusion is that we go with the quarter percent.

Mr. Rosatti commented as follows: The percentages of support for those two items, the half versus quarter, were very similar. In fact, you could say they were statistically equal. But when you look at those that say they are definitely going to vote in the election, that is where we see a variance change, if you will. And it leads us to leaning down the half of a quarter cent would be more viable.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I have to push you on this. Because we are looking at making an important decision. It seems to be a pretty similar percentage to what we are seeing in these numbers. So there has got to be a reason. Is it simply that when you look at the group that is definitely going to vote, there is a slightly higher? I am looking at question number 10. On question number 10, you’re showing that definitely will vote with a plus or -10% in that group. It is a 46% would vote for a quarter percent. Is that the data, am I looking at the correct data?
Mr. Rosatti commented as follows: There are those that will definitely vote or likely vote in favor, those are added together to get you your 68%. We also see in that particular graph, that there are a number of people who simply do not care. Still at 16% undecided.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: You have definitely vote in favor or likely will vote in favor. So there are a lot of people in there. As I look at spending the money, I think this is important for us to question on the Council here but when I look at the money and putting the voters with this process, I have to ask myself, do we go for the bigger solution? That is the one .5. or do we stick with the $750,000 possible from the quarter percent? And these numbers, to me, they seem so similar, that it is really hard for me to understand why we would go for the lower percentage. But maybe some of the ad hoc members have some input. I know you guys all processed all of this.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: We are afraid of opposition, to be blunt. So as was pointed out in the summary, if we have opposition campaign, we might not make that number. So I think I will go back to our Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

original recommendation. That was at a quarter, many people said to us, it will cost this much and go through all of that, why don't you do the half? We know there are two other campaigns coming up next year. There are some questions that we have to have passed. How those campaigns would work out. We are a little safer to go for the quarter. We believe that based on possible valid opposition. But if we are going to run our own campaign as citizens make a commitment to this. It would solve our problems and with the 10 year sunset, which would be 10 years and we would see where we are. But a quarter is the safe route. So there you have it, as blunt as I can be.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: As reminder for all of us, with the reference points here, it is if we go up a quarter percent, we then will be in line with those at 9.5%. So in terms of other potential countywide measures, we are infringing on those opportunities.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: If we went up to a half, we would be at the highest jurisdiction in the county. So that maybe is not the best message either.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: You stated that at the beginning of your report, it had to do something about people answering the first question. And then people dropped out as more questions were answered. Could you kind of give me a rundown on how that drop of wind? Question number one there were how many respondents? Question number two? All the way to question number nine? Mr. Rosatti commented as follows:
317 number 1
256 number 2
243 number 3
226 number 4
223 number 5
211 number 6
209 number 7
205 number 8
204 number 9
201 number 10
Sunset – 198
198, that is the total number of people that answered every question satisfactorily for the poll.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: Is that the number you used or that forward support used in determining how the responses aligned with our voters?
Mr. Rosatti commented as follows: It is for that last question. For the prior questions, the used individual numbers for the questions in order to give us the most accurate answer per question.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: In the beginning on the respondent profile, there is a summary statement about the voter and the responses and how they aligned with the demographics that are registered voters. Is that the 198 that were considered in that? Or is it some combined number that looked at the number of votes for question?
Mr. Rosatti commented as follows: In the summary, we stated it was the profile of all of the completed questions.

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: In terms of the plus and minus, the questions two and three, applying to the sales tax. Those are a plus and minuses because we have a higher sample size to consider in the answers to those questions and we consider the 256. We did not eliminate the 58 people that were over the top. We kept it in there so we have a better representation on those questions.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: What kind of opposition do you expect for a tax measure like this? And what might be the cost for what you consider a robust educational campaign? Mr. Rosatti commented as follows: For the first question, I would say that that is an interpretive answer. It is not really about the data. If you will from such things as the local taxpayer’s association potential responding from what I guess is a gut reaction. You may have user groups that feel they are being left out or that would like you to do more or less or more in another way. Those are the types of, generally speaking, the anti-tax folks that have come out in the past I have seen. What is risky is when those groups are so upset and unhappy that they become organized and they start to raise and spend money against your measure. So we are avoiding that type of situation which is ideal. Two thirds is very difficult to get to because so many are undecided that are potentially compensable. That requires, in my opinion, a pretty robust effort to educate. And then bring them along and give them a reason to why they should support it. In terms of how much money with the campaign cost? That question was, I think it was asked or volunteered by a pollster who recommended $30,000 to $50,000. On one side, and similar amounts, potentially $20,000 to $30,000 on the other side. When I say the other side, one would be the city educating folks and doing what they can do to make sure the voters understand what the challenges the city is facing and the opportunities in front of them and how they can help solve problems for the city. What the city cannot do is say, you should vote for this measure. They can only say the facts but on the citizen campaign, that campaign is the other side. They can say vote yes on this we have this many people supporting it, publicly endorsing. Those folks can go door-to-door and make phone calls. They can send direct mailings and different types of communications in the campaign. They can say vote yes on measure for Sebastopol. Whatever number it gets assigned eventually.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I just wanted to point out an agenda item, it does have $30,000. As recommended, I believe. Do you know what the drop ballot estimated might be for this campaign? Mr. Rosatti commented as follows: On October 9th, voting my mail opens , the first day of voters can pick up the ballots at the office. On October 10th, the official day that ballot drop boxes open for that is when the Dropbox over at the Sebastopol Center for the Arts will be open for voters to drop off ballots. They will be mailed about that time.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: Has anyone spoken to the Chamber of Commerce downtown? About how they feel about raising these taxes?
Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I've done a presentation as I am the liaison for the Chamber of Commerce.

I told them they were really going out on the ballot. It was for the board and there was no official stance.

Mr. Rosatti commented as follows: There will also be in person voting at the November 2023 election. All of voters will be mailed ballots as they had been in several election cycles.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I know this was pulled together in order to get results for us as the City Council requested. I really appreciate that. As I come in as one City Councilmember, sit here and assess the result and try to make a decision for the voters of Sebastopol based on this information , one of the questions I have is Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

whether we are missing any information. I know that is kind of a big question. But when you look at these results that we are seeing, which seem to suggest that we have a good shot at a two thirds support for a quarter percent or a half percent, with or without a sunset clause, given your experience, do you think we have the information we need? Do you feel like we can rely on this data? I am asking for your expertise, from your experience. Given what you have seen in the past in Sonoma County, what is your instinct? Mr. Rosatti commented as follows: I would say that is one, this is a snapshot in time of voters polled in that day.

With any poll, it is difficult to say this is exactly how it is going to be. I think what we did with this is did our best to try to tease out where folks were and how we might present the best case for the city in terms of what the various funding would be. And to that end, think we accomplished that goal pretty well. In terms of looking at hard numbers of 58 and 59%, and the reason I am encouraged there is that you have a relatively low number of no and a pretty large uncertain category. So the votes are still out there for you go to harvest and get, if you will.

If folks break the same way ss they did on the yes and no side of things and undecided, you should be over the top. Not knowing as much about tone and being from the outside looking in at the data and numbers. My concern to the city is that you have a very short time window in a special election environment. That tends to skew more conservative. So when I say conservative, I mean conservative on taxes. So I think the need for that outreach in making that case to the voters has reached maximum point or two. The need to consider whether the support will be there to get the major at the top. I think that a half cent sales tax is not a viable option for the city at this time. That is as much political as it is looking at these numbers. I could say we have a shot at a quarter since I live here in town and I care about these issues.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I think stepping back from it is an encouraging display of support by our community.

Mayor Hinton opened for public comment.

Kyle commented as follows: Discussed the elementary statistic. Tonight, we are given a clear example of public officials and consultants and survey design to be used by us to change the results of a survey. So to begin, let's talk about question over bias. We saw in this survey that there is a prompt before question two they gave only two examples of extra expenditures that were related to the deficit. Those two examples were police and fire. We did not see any of the other budget expenditures that might have been something that the public or the people surveyed would've cared about. So the order bias also continued throughout the survey. The survey did not have any sort of randomized order of those questions which influences the results of the survey. In the questions, the answers to those questions were listed as a list, but they were in a discreet order that always begin with police and fire. That alone produces a bias in the results of the participants. Further, we learned that close to 20%, maybe even more of the respondents dropped off. That is the result of likely exhaustion from the survey. That leads to another type of bias which is extreme response bias. That also happens to happen at the end of the survey you will see more extremes because participants are no trying to get through the survey. They are trying to use the survey to get through the survey as quickly as possible. It is really unfortunate that we see this coming from our Mayor who claims to have experience in market research.

Loretta commented as follows: I’ve a question put on this ballot issue, will it be on the same ballot as the fire tax? Will it be the same? In the high school, when the last fire for the county came up and added the high school part two it, then it failed. So I am concerned. If it is on the ballot with the fire tax that people will vote for the fire tax and not for this tax. My other question was, how are people notified, other than just a random phone call? Because I kept watching for something about a poll but I never got information about how to do one. I know none of my friends who got called. That is less than 10% of the population. I do not know how accurate this is.

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Oliver commented as follows: What I got from that, we have 190 people out of five and half thousand voters. I do not think that is a large enough sample of those people to take seriously. It is a good effort by Denny Rosatti and his team. But the other problem we have here is the hugely amount undecided wondering what the hell is going on. You can ask these questions out of the blue, but people do not have the context so for example, if you take a very successful local business, it is hard for local people come into the city and spend a lot of money there but you keep jacking up the tax more and more and more, Sebastopol , and people will go to elsewhere instead because it will be cheaper. So we consider, basically, if by some miracle, this passed, we could have an incredibly high tech space in City of Sebastopol. It means that your businesses will be unable to survive. People will have to leave to spend money. So that's the other side of this coin. That is really kind of has been not discussed at all. I was quite disturbed by some of the questions as well. I think we have covered this before. We have had the county library is been described as having supporting provincial and social services but the county has wraparound services a preventative services. The CDC, again, reinventing county services and the library which is a book and DVD lending services something else which it is not. So in closing, I will just say I really do not think there is enough information here and I do not know anybody that took the survey. I think it is not really meaningful enough to move forward but it could be quite expensive to run an election based on this but I understand and I think we really need to reframe and refocus on strategies to get the city back on its feet and working on how people have confidence that we can.

A member of the audience commented as follows: I've a question about the survey. I guess is directed toward the people that created it. But I noticed that there were a couple of budgeted for, but unfilled positions that were included in the survey. I noticed that one of them could have been the city attorney. I wonder why that was not included.

Michael commented as follows: This is a perfect example of the city going unchecked. You immediately went to Denny for the survey. I've been in the business for 29 years but I live in Sebastopol. I did not see anything about the poll. It was inadequate answer about how it was distributed. I had no idea and no chance of actually responding. I think that you just immediately, without any consultation, went with Denny. Not a slap in Denny’s face, but pull out $10,000 went there is not the downtown association, the chamber, they should've distributed this to other members We could've done a better job with doing our own poll. I do know how many times I actually have seen that one. So I think that this is premature. I think that jumping and raising the sales tax is going to make everything more expensive for everybody. I think that Oliver had a good point. I definitely will be one who will oppose it. A sign in front of my shop. By writing letters to the editor. I just do not think that this is the right way to go. I think that the city needs to tighten their wallets and stop spending so much money on consultants and tighten up the purse strings. If we all got to bite a little bit, so be it. That is my public comment.

Linda commented as follows: Thanked Michael for his comments. Stated he is forward thinking and independent and would love to see that back on the City Council. This is just another example of unchecked spending comparable to the audit for the police. The time and money and ended up with losing our very talented police chief. That was a big negative waste. Also the water meters today. Discussed corporate interest. It was a bogus survey. I was not included in any of this stuff. I'm probably, as you know, I think the most vocal person on the City Council meetings. So anyway, here I will tell you how to make money. The fire department and the police department needs to have, to set up themselves the trust so that people can easily donate money to them. It is comparable to what they recently did for the paper. They set up a trust so that people can support local journalism. It just needs to be very easy and straightforward. Something the city can keeps their hands off of and not do anything. It goes directly to the police department also, the friends of the library. They support more if they wanted to.

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Steve commented as follows: I was actually one of the few that was surveyed. It was a bit lengthy, I did hang in there until the end, especially when it came to hear the eight things that you can support or the eight things you do not want to support. That was hard to remember the eight as you are going through there. I think when it comes down to it, it is a roll of the dice. I would maybe disagree with Vice Mayor Rich. I do not think we have a good chance. We have a chance. Historically, I do not think there has been any grounds of support for a citizen run campaign to support tax increases in Sebastopol. I could be wrong. I'm just looking back over the last 10 years or so. There has been somewhat halfhearted campaigns. But a robust campaign for increasing taxes? If that is part of the barrier to get this through, I think we have a steep hill to climb. People, first of all, they are going to say, how did the city get into this mess? We have this big deficit. If it is a quarter cent, we are still in this mess. So I think it is worth taking the chance because I think if it fails, where still going to have another shot at the apple in 2024. We will only need 50%. So for me, it is worth the gamble.

Mayor Hinton responded to public comment as follows: First, to the speaker that asked if this is on the same election date as the fire measure? The answer is no. That is in March. That is why we are considering this one in November so we would not be in competition with that. Another speaker asked about what other budgeted items with the city attorney and why they were not part of the poll. The city attorney as a required position. If you have been following Council, as part of the budget, there has been a number of items related to public safety. Two police positions funded. We funded one of the two. Not funding both. We have later on the agenda, a fire truck funding tonight. So that is why, after much discussion in the last few months, over our city budget, we worded the poll this way. That is what we have been discussing in the dais . Being part of the subcommittee that worked on creating the poll, those are the liens we had. As far as why were other people not contacted? This was an unbiased pole. It was not like I want to fill out a survey and have my opinion known. So they called people randomly. I would say I was also called. I turned down completing the poll. So I assumed there were others that chose not to participate are also did not answer their phone because what it came and was an unknown member.

I happen to answer those but I know a lot of people that do not answer those. So just to answer that. And I do know, I think to the last speaker comment, we have had former Councilmembers who were informed on a citizens’ campaign on a former tax measure. I know that our City Manager can maybe recall what year that might've been. I recall it was former Councilmembers Patrick Slayter and Sarah Gurney. But they formed a citizen committee and I think as an education piece for our tax measure.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: Yes, there was a campaign. My recollection was we brought it to the voters, walking door-to-door. The citizens and Councilmembers leading that in a personal way.

Yes, there's always been a campaign. I do not remember the year.

City Council Further Comments, Discussion and/or Deliberations:

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I know there is going to be more questions. But I am just going to go ahead since I worked on the subcommittee and I was part of the group that brought the original item forward. As is indicated in the agenda item tonight, we have the money budgeted to do a tax measure and run it. This is more expensive than we expected. We are looking at this date because we do not want to be in competition with another tax measure. We're also looking at a sales tax measure because we feel like the quarter cent sales tax, were also the hub for the county. Many people live right outside the border. I will use when I spoke with our supervisor, Linda Hopkins, which would be happy, in her words, to contribute a quarter cent when she shops in town. That is why we have kind of gone down this road, at least from my perspective, bringing it forward. This town does not have a lot of car dealers, hotels, or big chain stores that generate a lot of sales tax and expenses continue to go up. The city has been challenged in recent years. My opinion and having set on the Council for 7 years, not because of bad decisions. But also rising with the revenue in the city. We only have so many people here. So I just want to lead with that as kind of follow-up to launching this agenda item.

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: The last time the sales tax was raised, was that on a ballot in a special election year will it require two thirds vote or was it in a general year where only recolored 80% of the vote?
City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: General election, 50 percent plus one.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: Do you have any recollection of the vote; how much it was passed by; was it two thirds?
City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: I do not remember the specific percent. But it was extremely healthy. It surpassed 67%, but I do not recall the exact figure.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: First of all, are we going to be discussing this evening what the ballot measure question is to be? Or is that for another evening? And should it be read for discussion.

Councilmember Maurer read the ballot question.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: To talk about what this proposed question might be. And what budget might actually be needed for this initiative, if we move forward, I am concluding that this captures the result of this survey. So to the City Attorney, is this specific enough, given that this is a special election? City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: Bear in mind, we have worked with the consultant with writing the ordinance but they are on vacation tonight. I crafted this question based on my understanding of what was required for a special tax and following the format that is been used in other successful elections. So I am confident that it is worded properly. However, it was emphasized the proposal here is that Council gives the go-ahead and if this comes back in a special meeting in the near future, for formal adoption of the formal ballot question as you have, as well as the required ordinance. So that is not before you tonight. You can see this question is not necessarily in final form. We needed a question and I crafted this and I tried to capture the rate for results that were presented to the committee last Friday.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: Has this ballot question been run by the consultant Dennis Rosatti.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: He did review it and he asked me if it was following the format of other elections and I responded yes.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: Question to Mr. Rosatti, since we are kind of reconsidering it, it does, in the fact, from your perspective, reflect appropriately the results of the poll? I understand the initial part of the question. The ordinance enhances. In other words, not cover all of the funding. Enhance these particular items that are listed. The senior center, library, mental and behavioral programs at other community services. However, I am concerned about the second half of the question. Because offense is to adequately staff and improve Sebastopol’s fire services. I do not feel that, from what I have learned, someone in here, correct me if I am wrong, but I do not feel that $750,000 from a quarter percent sales tax is going to adequately fund and improve Sebastopol’s fire services . So my observation on that portion of the question would be that it needs to somehow be modified to support, to enhance, to something. When it be great if $750,000 would support a firehouse? But it won't. So that is my first observation.

Mr. Rosatti commented as follows: I believe it does and especially if the Council is going to go for the quarter cent sales tax. That is where the Council goes. I think your comment is very relevant.

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: In terms of the fiscal impact, looking at the staff report. My question is whether the proposed fiscal impact we see is adequate. I understand that we have $100,000 in our budget. And with Councilmember Zollman on the budget committee, that we have $100,000 budget for ballot measures for the entire fiscal year. So for this ballot measure, we would allocate $95,000. 3$0,000 two the question ordinance which would be new services. And then it says $10,000 for strategist marketing, education and outreach. And then $55,000 for the election costs. What I would like to focus on there is this strategist marketing outreach right because as I look at that number, it is $10,000 which we allocated in the last City Council meeting. I know that at least some of that $10,000 has been used in this poll and consultant services. My question would be, how much do we truly need to allocate for the marketing, education, and outreach portion moving forward? And if it is less than what we have already set aside, then, perhaps, we should be considering what that increase would be.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: It is in the proposal fiscal impact that if we move forward would be to increase the request by $10,000 so that the total would be $105,000.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: That would then require an amendment, a budget amendment, is that correct?
Staff stated that is correct.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: My follow-up question is, I think it is important for all of us to understand that we do have other ballot measures, at least at you to that we might want to pursue this fiscal year, if that is the case we should keep in mind that we will ultimately need to get further into the budget, and my correct about that?
City staff commented as follows: If we do move forward for the November 2024 election we did in this budget for the consultant to do the writing of the ballot question because it has to be done prior to the election. But you are correct, that would now be used for this and of the Council decided to go with the out for 2024 they would have to do the budget amendment to add funding back in for the ballot and question an ordinance with the consulting.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: Can we assume that amount would be $30,000.

Staff commented that would be the assumption.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: So, looking at the budget implications, we would be adding into the $100,000 that is currently allocated, $5000 in order to pursue this initiative. Recognizing that the $55,000 on the county election cost is a maximum, so maybe we wouldn't have that full cost but we would also be taking on an additional cost for the UUT ballot measure of $30,000 likely, we are probably looking at an additional I would think, $40,000 in our budget that was not allocated before. Are those numbers following? Mayor Hinton commented as follows: That is correct. Discussed the UUT and questioned if that is because we want to ask for more money or because we have to add the sunset if that round table initiative measure passes? City staff commented as follows: We would need the sunset provision if the round table ballot initiative passes because it was removed in the prior election and we need to put it back.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: We might not need it is that correct.

Agenda Item Number: 1
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City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

City staff commented as follows: The city will not know that until the very same election, so I would say, you would need it. It is too risky to wait on the results of the roundtable measure.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: The last time we did a sales tax measure it was in 2018 for half a percent and it was approved by 68.1%. I just looked it up online while we were reviewing.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: The part that is really tripping me up and I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around is, the situation that Sebastopol is facing is that we have a growing structural deficit and we need money for the general fund. Yet what you are proposing is money for special projects, again, I said this last time we met, it does not sit well with me, it feels deceptive to say we want to raise money for parks. We have projects coming up that we have approved, the majority of the funding for the parks is coming from grants. I think there might be roughly $100,000 that we are funding but the majority of those funds are grants. The senior center is doing fabulous, financially. We give no money to the library, as far as I understand, we give no money to mental or behavioral programs, any money that is raised will not go to the general fund but into new programs, it just seems to me like a really bad time to be funding special projects when we need money for the general operation of the city. If people vote for this and agree on it, are the services actually going to be enhanced? Or is this somehow just raising money and then giving to the general fund? It just does not sit well with me. And in terms of the opposition, I could imagine already we have heard from one businessman in town who says, he will put a sign in his window to oppose a tax measure. We also have a child care initiative that is trying to raise money and they did a presentation to us at the Mayor and Councilmember meeting and we have a Sonoma County fire district that is working to raise absent sales tax measure in the spring. And Sebastopol stands to make a lot of money if that passes and I believe that is indefinite conflict, we are not making any friends by putting a sales tax measure this time and I think it is risky. I think try to get a two thirds majority in this time particularly, I think financially people are more stressed than they were maybe in 2016 or 2018. I said this last time and I will say it again, I think it is better to wait, if you wanted we could wait until June or until next year when you only need a 50% vote to pass it. Look to other strategies to raise funds rather than putting on the sales tax measure. I did kind of do an informer poll of my neighbors and they all gave a thumbs down on the sales tax, every single one of them, thumbs down. Not one person that I have heard, personally, except for one person tonight on the public comments, none of them want the sales tax raised, I think it is bad for the businesses.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I heard your comment before and I was trying to work through an appropriate response. Looking at what happened with the budget, your question is, if we suggest that taxes be raised as an example, parks, senior center, library, mental and behavioral programs and other community services, what impact does that really have? Is that somehow deceptive? The answer is, no. I want to remind you about what happened with the budget process this year and Councilmember Zollman and I are very aware of it and so are all of our department heads. To the extent of the goal here is stabilizing programs. So, let's say that we had a tax that was coming in as indicated here to other community services. What happened in this budget year is in fact, we as a City Council cut a lot of items that were other community services. We seem to have forgotten that. But $100,000 that had been allocated, proximately, that had been allocated to our nonprofits, our amazing nonprofits in town, there was an amount of money that was allocated for sponsorships, for programs, for businesses that were bringing business into town. That could be considered an other community service. There was also an amount that we cut that had to do with limited percentage dollar amount per Councilmember that we were allowed to allocate to non-profits and where the efforts in our community. I also would point two the wonderful group that was doing landscape services, becoming independent, to me, that is another community service. And let's talk about the fire tax too, I want to talk about the fire tax of the county is looking at. Right now the fire departments, the county fire is being supported through county funding, in fact, the fire tax might have a county funding that can be available for other purposes. But if the voters supported fire tax, the voters are saying, Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

this amount of money we believe goes to fire, so it provides stabilization, it provides the voters with an opportunity to say, these are the interests that we prioritize and then can inform us to go into the budget process the City Council and we've got money that is in there for mental and behavioral programs, other community services and we are facing cuts. We are looking at the voters and the voters have said, no, we are prioritizing these items so, to me, it provides stabilization and a message from the voters about what they prioritize that we as a City Council then are expected to respect. So, that is how I see it, I see any sort of a special tax in that way and to the extent and we are not in a world where we have extra money. So, we are going to be making cuts one way or another, it is the voters’ choice. The other piece I will say quickly it is okay, for my perspective, for us to go out to the people and do our darndest and I agree we have to educate and inform, and if these wonderful voters in Sebastopol come back and say, no, we are not going to support a quarter percent sales tax, then what that says to us as leaders is, we are cutting services, where will we start cutting? Because we have the dollar amounts that we are facing in our budget and we hear from our constituents and we heard it tonight, have to live within your means. To me, go out to the voters and given the choice and then respect their decision and do our best.

That comment that we can come back when there is a 50% vote, you know what, folks, that depends because depending on the voter response the message may be, no, this community wants to cut services and that is a message that we will have to listen to. So, I think we take the risk but I just wanted to respond to those two points.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: I think it is a mistake to think that the only way to raise monies is through sales tax and I think it is a mistake to say that if we do not pass the sales tax and services will have to be cut. I think we can be a lot more creative than that in finding ways to raise money for the city.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: This is kind of in response to Councilmember Maurer, when you are listing off the thing is, how much the poll costs, how much the community center costs, how much the senior center, how much we contribute to those , it is our values in the city that took our budget committee and the recommendations to fund those and instead look at holding off and not funding public service. At the end of the day that was a tough vote, 3-2, we were divided on where we should fund. The reality is, this town needs more money and I will just say, in a biased way, I ask the same number of people, my neighbors and they say they will not even notice a quarter cent on their sales tax receipt, so, I think that just goes to show bias, right? If you are in favor of it you will ask the question anyway you want. We are going to have to do some effort and sell this and I’m willing to walk on the streets, that is how strongly I believe in this. We need money. I don't think it is deceptive to find what we are funding, when we come up and borrow from reserves 1 million five, I will look my neighbors in the face and say, we need money, will you vote for this? We are coming up short and if they will not vote for it then we have a clear signal and we have to cut things. But I believe this town has been very supportive of tax measures and supporting our local community. It is our community values, we have not built big hotels and created tourist town, which is one of the reasons frankly why I ran for City Council back when I ran. But that leads us to have to generate money in other ways. We have borders, we have voted to keep our influence the way it is, where will our money come from? Just bringing it up, we are the second small city in the county with a much smaller tax rate and Petaluma has much more sales tax revenue including from auto roads, I don't think it is too much to ask and frankly I will vote for this tonight, I have brought this and worked really hard on this effort and I think our community will support it and I will do everything I can, personally, to get the word out and get our communities supported. I have no idea, you never know what voters are going to do but I am not willing to sit around another year and do nothing. There is nowhere else to cut, in my opinion.

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: I want to address Councilmember Maurer specifically.

Apparently the library has done a really poor job in educating the public about the money that our city is responsible for that library. I wanted to make sure I was unbiased and I sent my question to Larry to make sure that I was not over representing my own personal opinion on this. We all operate under jape, a joint power Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

agreement and that specifically states that if we want a library, we as a city will pay for the brick-and-mortar, we as a city will pay for the havoc, expensive maintenance. We as a city are responsible for the brick-and-mortar, once we come up with the best we can come up with, all the county library does is flow staff in, that is it. So, under our JPA and our lease, which Larry reminded me of, we are responsible for all of that. So, we, taxpayers pay for that, right? So, to address your specific questions, is it just like another special project that we do not want to fund in the middle of an ongoing deficit? No, it actually is not and I would really encourage people who say that they love the library to really understand, like, what it takes to maintain a library and then dig deeper as I keep saying about all that the library does provide. No, actually it is not just books and DVDs, it is social services that we provide because there is no other open place that people can drop into during the day and say, I’m having troubles paying my bills, I having problems with my declining mental health, our elders are lonely and go there, our youth are lonely and they go there. So, I want to be very, very clear on that and I am supporting this. One, it is important for us not to compete because I have already heard rumblings of who might be our competition, right? And I think that we have went over backwards to say that we do not intentionally want to compete against anyone. We need the money and if we are successful, the people that I have heard would be oppositional and will get some of that money too and if the thing in March passes, they will get even more money, right? I'm just saying the fact that we have bent over backwards to try to make sure that we are not in competition but sending a clear message that we need the money now. For those who are thinking about running in opposition I would encourage you to think about how that looks, right? Because if you do you are saying that you also do not need the money right now. So, I’m encouraging people to give that some thought and yes, I remember since getting on Council to defer to people who have more experience than me. Larry consistently said during our budget meeting that our populace has been exceedingly generous when it comes in as our mayor said if you lay out what the needs are, people will turn out to support, they don't think we are in it just for the thrills of being a Councilmember, we want the city to succeed and people are really, really wanting to keep the services that they have had and if you explain the reasons why we want the money, they will find it. So, I am hopeful and I will join you out on the street going door-to-door.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I did want to add just one little commentary after the library stuff. I really feel great about parks also scoring and the library very well, these are free services that people expect from their tax dollars, right? We need to maintain them and we know that our population, I know when we lived in our little condo and I didn't have a backyard with my daughter was 1 years old I through her birthday party in the park, that is what people do, they do celebrations. So, to be able to maintain our city services that a lot of people do not have a lot of room and they need parks and I get more walkers by my house every day that are walking through our park. That made me feel really great, I do think this Council, our values are in the right place and we are representing what the public wants , the city that elected us, I just needed to add that.

COUNCIL DISCUSSED BALLOT QUESTION:

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: This is not the last time you will see the question that will come before you in a special meeting after it has been reviewed by our outside consultant and legal Council that is doing the ordinance and the question. I believe it to be correct that this will not be the last time you see it, you will have one more opportunity. With the intent in drafting this is to try to capture the poll results and states those correctly.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I think we got the ballot question added to the web site. We were going to try to upload it, we got it added to the website, literally we had been piecing I together. It was not added when the agenda was posted but has been added as soon as it was finalized.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: The suggestion would be that the second portion would read, and to enhance staff and improve Sebastopol fire services? Rather than and to adequately staff and improve? Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: I was going to recommend that read, to enhance and improve Sebastopol fire services and delete the word staff.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: I would just like some real clarity about the money part. For example, right now we have a $1.67 million deficit, for example the libraries the building, right? There might be maintenance on the building but I didn't see that budget but let's just go with the senior center getting about $70,000, the community center gets about $322,000 and the pool gets $275,000, the fire services get about one $1.45M I think they got this year. Once his ballot measure passes for example, how much more is the senior center going to get? Are you proposing that these services will get more? Or that they will just be paid through the tax? Can you help me understand that?
City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: This is new money toward the services, that is the reason for the audit, the wording is enhance, let me just to demonstrate and this is done by the City Council during the regular budget process, that is when you do it. You take the monies that are raised by the tax measure and you budget them and you need to demonstrate when it is audited that you took the tax money, that you received from this measure, and devoted it towards these community services as enumerated in the ballot question and towards the fire.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: Right now, for example, the community center is getting $322,000 00, so, will that money be divided up and the community center will get for example, $450,000? Mayor Hinton commented as follows: It is up to each City Council every year in the budget process about who gets what and how it is divided up. So, we have borrowed out of our reserves, $1.5 million to cover those now.

Maybe next year without this infusion of money, eventually our money will run out, we cannot borrow anymore.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: I really want to understand and I’m asking for real, concrete analysis of the finances. Right now the fire department, let's call it $1.5 million, adequately staff them you get $750,000 in revenue, how much will go to the fire department? How much more go to the senior center? How much will go to the community center? You are talking about enhancing services which means you are giving more to them. If I’m a voter and I am seeing this, that the services it will be enhance that I will expect better services, more services to the community center, et cetera and it sounds like, no, that is not really something should be able to count on.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I don't think that can be determined, you brought that up two weeks ago, it is up to each year's elected officials and a budget process to determine.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: It just makes no sense to me to have a ballot measure saying you will enhance the services but you cannot really tell me that more money is going to be going to the services. And that next year we will find out when you decide where the money is going but if you're telling the voter, this is what we are planning to do, I would expect that you would be able to say, yes, we will be able to get more money to this and that. Our City Manager just said we have to be able to do that but we don't even know if it will pass so we cannot determine how much will go to each right now. By law.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: The only legal and possible you can do that is each year during the regular budget process. When there is an election the Council members take their seats in each of the go through a budget process and that is how you determine your expenditures for that year. So you cannot Agenda Item Number: 1
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City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

anticipate ahead of time what support you will give to any particular community service that is done during the budget process.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: We are in a budget deficit, we are one $1.67 million overbudget, we pull that out of reserves. Under this language I think what is being asked here is, what I would look at it as, as money comes in and we try to figure out the budget process, if I’m on the City Council trying to figure out what to do about the budget and we are facing going into our reserves, once again, and looking at using them up within five years, it would feel appropriate to me to take some of this money and allocate it to some area, committee service, the senior center, the parks, allocate a portion of the money to those budgetary needs so we don't have to go into our reserves. Would that be an appropriate use of the funds? City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: If you're going to talk about, we had to go in to reserves this year and the Council made cuts and was unable to support a number of good community services that the City Council had been able to support in the past, we change the word enhance to maintain. Then you could write a ballot question that essentially said, we will put the money back that we cut and that is what you then need to demonstrate in your audit. That is what I was trying to emphasize, this ballot question is not necessarily in the final form because you need to know where the Councils going with it. It enhances one thing and maintain is another.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I have to thank Councilmember Maurer for pointing this out and insisting on it. The wonderful thing about the City Councils is we represent very different voices and this is an opportunity for us to make sure that the way that this ballot is worded reflects appropriately what we would want the money to be used for. I am looking at maintain is my particular preference and I think that may resolve the issue that Councilmember Maurer is thinking about also. So, that is my comment and that makes more sense to me.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I would be in favor of maintain as well. At the end of the day we need this money to make up our shortfall we cannot continue to bar out of our reserves savings account.

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: I am in favor of maintaining too because when we talk about service cuts we are also talking about cuts otherwise too. We should not dance around the issue, we are talking about employees too and I just want to throw that out there.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: The word maintain does feel more genuine. I still have trouble with the idea that the city is in deficit $1.6 something million and we target community services to be cut unless you pay in sales tax, that stuff doesn't sit well with me but yes, the word maintain is better than the word enhance.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I would say is that we are talking about the way the question is worded but future budgets as Mayor Hinton pointed out are up to every single City Council, we do not get to decide that for the future right here.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: By the way, the wording may be different for fire services, the Council should consider that. Whether it says maintain or enhance or what? Because we have a fire committee analyzing that question and they have to report to the City Council and an argument can be made that we are looking for 24/7 fire service and we are going to be needing to put more money towards fire, maintain might not be the right word there, maintaining understand its use with respect to all the community services because that is where the Council made significant cuts this last budget. So, I emphasize again, this is not Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

necessarily your last version of this ballot question, the intent here was to try to capture the poll results of the topics because with the special tax you need the correct topics, you need the things that you will be putting money towards. Wordsmithing can come at the special meeting if it is not perfect tonight.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I appreciate that but the issue raised by Councilmember Maurer was an important substantial one that I really appreciated. I am taking something like to provide support for, I’m sure we will be talking about it further.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: We will have to finalize this ballot question before the report out from the fire service committee.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: You probably should remove the mental and behavioral program since Sebastopol has none at this point because if you say you are maintaining those and there is not any, that just not seem valid.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: I think we do support those right now and there areas that were cut, so my assumption would be that the word maintain is correct.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: I do not associate the unhoused with mental and behavioral programs but I can see that. I would also possibly suggest removing the audit because that will be an additional cost every year.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: We believe the audit can be performed at the same time the city does its regular audit and it shows the voters that when they vote for a special tax you meet the legal burden of showing that you put the money towards those programs that were in that special tax. In general taxes audits are less necessary although since we have done those we have still separated those tax monies to show in a budget where those monies actually went, those are general taxes with the duty to the voters to show the money spent the special taxes where you said you would.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I am in favor of the audit, the annual audit and I don't think the cost would be that much to audit that money.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: If we move forward for special meeting that we could get at the special meeting? What an audit might cost.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: I think we can make sure the audit would be performed as a part of the regular city audit and I feel confident in a situation the cost would not be significant.

We are to do this with her other tax measures, dividing up the revenue from each measure and we just do that for this as well.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I am in support of a quarter percent sales tax, I understand the need to respect other measures out there, I am support of doing this in November and taking the risk. Providing a substantial education and outreach campaign and I would be in support of a special meeting to firm up our final decision-making on this item. And allocation of additional funds, $10,000 for this particular initiative it sounds like and understanding later on we will likely be facing $30,000 to be allocated to the UUT effort.

MOTION:

Vice Mayor Rich moved and Mayor Hinton seconded the motion to:

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

1. Receive Results Polling Conducted

2. Call for a Special Election for November 7, 2023

3. Approval of Ballot Question to be Submitted to the Voters and Authorize consultant to prepare all documents required for Special Election

4. Confirmation of Date/Time for Special City Council Meeting to:
i. Approve Resolution Calling for Special Election
ii. Approve Ordinance for Ballot Measure
iii. Approve Funding and Budget Amendment for:

1. $55,000 - Election Costs (Sonoma County Registrar of Voters) (budget amendment will be required)

2. $30,000 – Writing of Ballot Question/Ordinance

3. $30,000 – Outreach
¼ cent sales tax (0.25%)
Special Meeting of August 8, 2023 at 6:00 pm
Mayor Hinton called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Ayes: Councilmembers Zollman, Vice Mayor Rich and Mayor Hinton Noes: Councilmember Maurer

Absent: Councilmember McLewis
Abstain: None
City Council Action: Approved:

1. Receive Results Polling Conducted

2. Call for a Special Election for November 7, 2023

3. Approval of Ballot Question to be Submitted to the Voters and Authorize consultant to prepare all documents required for Special Election

4. Confirmation of Date/Time for Special City Council Meeting to:
i. Approve Resolution Calling for Special Election
ii. Approve Ordinance for Ballot Measure
iii. Approve Funding and Budget Amendment for:

1. $55,000 - Election Costs (Sonoma County Registrar of Voters) (budget amendment will be required)

2. $30,000 – Writing of Ballot Question/Ordinance

3. $30,000 – Outreach
¼ cent sales tax (0.25%)
Special Meeting of August 8, 2023 at 6:00 pm
Minute Order Number: 2023-184
Mayor Hinton called for a break at 8:41 pm and reconvene the meeting at 8:46 pm

REGULAR CALENDAR AGENDA ITEMS (DISCUSSION AND/OR ACTION)

9. Discussion and Consideration of Ballot Question and Ordinance for Submission to the Sonoma County Registrar of Voters for November 2023 Special Election (Requestor: Mayor Hinton/Vice Mayor Rich) Added Agenda Item (Added July 27, 2023):

AGENDA TITLE:

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

*Consideration of Purchase of Pierce Enforcer Type 1 Engine; Purchase Price of Fire Truck: $938,744.82 /Total Cost with Interest: $1,014,151.47 (Responsible Department: Interim Fire Chief) Interim Fire Chief Piccinini presented the agenda item recommending the City Council Consider, Discuss and Approve Purchase of Pierce Enforcer Type 1 Engine; Purchase Price of Fire Truck: $938,744.82 /Total Cost with Interest: $1,014,151.47
Mayor Hinton opened for questions from Councilmembers.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: My question to you is, what will happen to the 1990 fire engine, will you still have a need for it? Can you sell it and will that help offset some of the costs of the new fire engine? Or will you gift it to another, you know, fire department? Interim Chief Piccinini commented as follows: I will follow city policy in terms of declaring that particular asset surplus and then it can be sold. I do not have an estimate in terms of what that particular vehicle is worth. But it will be sold and typically those are purchased by colleges that run fire technology programs to use in their programs and/or their purchased by small rule volunteer departments that just do not have any level of real funding and they are a potential agency that would purchase that firetruck.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: I was thinking about and also something a comment mentioned about raising money for the fire department and the police department and I know the fire department has a nonprofit arm of volunteers and, since you have a big purchase I wonder if this is a good opportunity to put out the word that you are raising money towards a fire truck, not silly to pay for all of it but that maybe it could be a way to help the city to help you find the truck? You know? I'm just wondering if you might consider that option in terms of making that a campaign to the residence?
Interim Chief Piccinini commented as follows: I would not recommend or offer that on this particular purchase, primarily because of the fact that time is of the essence. However, we have already considered, because we have an old squad and that is been the discussion in terms of trying to, you know, come up with funding along the perimeters that you are suggesting, where that gets funded through community donations support, the foundation contributions, et cetera.

Councilmember Maurer commented as follows: I didn't expect it would be delayed at all, but just to ask for more support and let them know that you are purchasing this if the vote goes through, not to delete.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: Thank you for all the efforts in cost savings, that really rings true for me.

My question is, in terms of the loan arrangement, has it been reviewed and approved by administered of services direct your? Has Ana (Director Kwong) seen the lease agreement and approved? Interim Chief Piccinini commented as follows: I cannot speak for her in terms of how much investigated it but it was a part of the Council packet, so, I am sure some review was provided. We can certainly do what we have already done and make additional phone calls to confirm that this is in fact competitive rate. More important, that the financial institution is willing to work with us and not have us go through an escrow process. I cannot speak for her otherwise.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: A question as to our City Manager, wouldn't our regular procedure be to have any lease agreement like this reviewed and approved by our administered of services director? Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: I have reviewed it and I’m familiar with it from past use and I think this is a very excellent procedure.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: You are confident the interest rate and the lease terms are appropriate.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: Yes. I appreciate the existence of leasing and this is good for fire agencies.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: My second question has to do with the sale of the current fire engine, thank you Councilmember Maurer for asking about that, the proceeds from that. Where will they show up? Will they go back into the general fund? Where will the proceeds go? Interim Chief Piccinini commented as follows: That will ultimately be a question answered by our administrative director but back to the general fund is the reality.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: That is worthwhile to track because it would be useful for the City Council to know that there is a substantial purchase that will have a lower net effect, if you sell that firetruck.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I will jump in on this one. Partly why we added this is an emergency item is because of the cost savings which was pointed out to the Vice Mayor and myself; hank you for that because it rings true to me too and I did note part of the request included the one engine only had so many left and I just know from personal experience, that last fire engine took so long that hopefully this will not be a two year plus process. I also saw that to sell the same year in a quick google search would be $50,000 and I know that when we have sold police vehicles before they come back into the budget, into the general fund and I am sure it is the same procedure.

Mayor Hinton opened for public comment.

Kyle commented as follows: Two times in one evening we have another major financial decision is related to our fire department and after months of delay and zero update, we've heard nothing from our fire committee that was tasked with the very act of looking into these things and reporting out, I would assume on a regular basis on these matters so that we as a city are more informed on the needs of our fire department. It is still not clear to me why it is that we have no sort of update from our fire committee, if this group is a meeting in any capacity, I would expect that at the end of each meeting we would have some sort of report out from the body. Yet, none has come forward and here we are making decisions without any input or any sort of update from that fire campaign. It comes down to funding and this is a decision about funding and we have heard so much tonight about the needs of our city and all of the cuts that were made across city services and how under threat of taxation the additional cuts that might be coming forward. I just want to make clear and have our city respond to the cuts that were made to the City Manager's budget, the cuts that were made to the City Attorney's budget, the cuts that were made to the financial services budget, because those were not cuts. While we saw major cuts across multiple departments, these three major departments actually saw major increases. Here we are talking about a $1.6 million deficit, yet we are radically increasing the costs of departments and to tap onto that we have these last-minute budget decisions to increase police services and to increase fire services by the hiring of employees outside of the budget committee process.

Loretta commented as follows: I like to urge you to vote for this tonight, holding out will only cost us more money for a different version of this engine and move us down to the bottom of the list, again and take a longer time to do it. If we are not up-to-date on the required engines and equipment that we need, eventually our rating Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

will go down and you know it will happen? Our home insurance will go up, I would urge you please, please, please vote for this tonight.

Oliver commented as follows: It is important that we get this done as soon as possible and it is sad that our fire chief has to basically explain why he is cutting left, right and center to get cheaper options and so on and so forth, says what a City Council is all about, organizing a city at a very basic level. We keep going around the edges of all these schemes and things that the Council claimed to be doing which never seems to work and cost more than it needs to. Just echoing what Loretta said it is important that this goes through like tonight and get sorted out. And as I keep saying in these meetings, focus on the basics. We dance all around the edges of the stuff and the Council spent hours and hours milling around talking about who knows what and people like myself and Loretta and obviously Kyle , we get 120 seconds to try to articulate something coherent, is a very difficult and not terribly democratic process and be willing to change that, I think. I'm looking at my zoom scream and all the seats in front of me on the screen are empty, which shows what a huge problem of engagement we have.

Linda commented as follows: I don't see a whole lot of engagement here at all, routinely I get totally ignored by the mayor and vice mayor. So to the rest of you for that matter. Anyway, I am just thinking, are you still out of touch with the vibe of the city, people love it and want to support it and you think that they will jump at the opportunity to do it, they will throw money at it. For instance such as the purchase of a new firetruck or supporting the fire department. If you use creativity and imagination such as what other fire department are doing such as sending out a postcard throughout the city saying that you need money for say, the firetruck and in return they will get something with their name, some kind of recognition. You could go into the t-shirts, I would probably pay $20 for a City of Sebastopol fire department or police department. There are all kinds of creative means to raise money, which is my point.

City Council Further Comments, Discussion and/or Deliberations:

Councilmember Mauer commented as follows: I wished we had the result of that ad hoc committee. I wish we had that townhall, I wish we understood the needs of the fire department more fully. I did discuss this with City Managers, and there is support and I did ask questions about the lease and could it be a long release, et cetera. I will be in support of this purchase. We did set aside $300,000 for this truck, this year. I think there is at least another $300,000 in the vehicle fund. I am in support.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: As part of the fire ad hoc committee, I will say that we do have a townhall meeting coming at the community church at 6:00 on August 24th. We are planning on that and we have already forwarded the agenda for the subcommittee report. We will all just mark our calendars for that. I am also in support of the item tonight and it took too long to get the last fire engine and this was vetted by the but it -- budget committee and I am confident that with the budget cuts, that they are in support of it. That it has already been vetted and I don't think we can do a GoFundMe for fire engine, but you might get a few people that get the 20 bucks. I would like to add up to $300,000 and that is why we pay taxes and those are my comments for tonight.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: Very much in support of this item.

MOTION:

Mayor Hinton moved and Councilmember Maurer seconded the motion to approve purchase of the Pierce Enforcer Type-1 Fire Engine and execute the purchase agreement based on Golden State Fire Apparatus proposal 50726-23; and that further, City Manager be authorized to execute a lease purchase agreement with Community Leasing Partners in conjunction with the execution of the purchase agreement for the engine by use of Option 1 with a 3 years terms at the interest rate of 5.79% with a $300,000 down payment and each payment of Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

$238,050.49 per year for the next 3 years. The total cost of this Type 1 Engine at the end of the lease term at approximately $1,014,151.

Mayor Hinton called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Ayes: Councilmembers Maurer, Zollman, Vice Mayor Rich and Mayor Hinton Noes: None

Absent: Councilmember McLewis
Abstain: None
City Council Action: Approved purchase of the Pierce Enforcer Type-1 Fire Engine and execute the purchase agreement based on Golden State Fire Apparatus proposal 50726-23; and that further, City Manager be authorized to execute a lease purchase agreement with Community Leasing Partners in conjunction with the execution of the purchase agreement for the engine by use of Option 1 with a 3 years terms at the interest rate of

5.79% with a $300,000 down payment and each payment of $238,050.49 per year for the next 3 years. The total cost of this Type 1 Engine at the end of the lease term at approximately $1,014,151.

Minute Order Number: 2023-185

Item Number 4:

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: I did try to save time and sent my questions and ayes. I have been sending my questions and staff stated that was okay and they sent them directly to our HR. The questions sent are listed below.

1. In order to provide effective performance reviews of the job description essentials, what type of software is used by other cities? I am under the assumption that we do not have such software. This goes to whether the requirements of this job description can be tracked and monitored for compliance. I would like to see a quarterly reviews to be shared by our GM for new employees, to include this one.

2. Who is the state licensing authority for all fire chiefs. I see nothing in the job description that breaches of state code should require prompt notification to this authority. Short of this, what participation in what professional orgs should be required.

3. When it mentions preventative services, I am assuming this applies to working with our nonprofits to do preventative services, i.e. work with our senior center to develop programs to reduce the number of call outs for falls in homes. My understanding is that that constitutes 60% of the calls. My neighbor had repeated calls for this and every truck in the area responded. I would like this to be incorporated into the goals.

4. Cost reimbursement for those who have insurance and require our resources. This has been brought up by my community members as a way to bring in revenue and the chief has said he doesn't have enough resources to do this. If you have seen this in our jurisdictions, I would like to see this as a goal.

5. What is your definition of "emergency medical services". My understanding is that we do not have any CMTs. Should we not have them based on other jurisdictions. If so, I would like to have the monitoring of them and their licenses be a goal.

6. Mobile crisis response. Other jurisdictions have small trucks that can transport those needing of ER transport due to mental health decompensation. My understanding from our interim chief is that we do not have such a truck. Should we not have them reduce costs for transportation related to mental health decompensation?
Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

I wanted to be sure that we took advantage of her expertise when it comes to reviewing job descriptions for multiple municipalities and that is why we have retained her. I would also like her expertise to be shared around how you actually do performance evaluations because job descriptions are great but if you do not measure them, then my experience is they don't go very far. My first question is, in order to provide effective performance reviews of the job description essentials that you put forth, what type of software is used by other cities? It's my impression we don't have any type of software. That is my first question.

Deborah Muchmore, HR consultant, commented as follows: The matter at hand is the duties and responsibilities but I understand the relationship of this question to those duties. Indirectly answering your question, the city does not have software. In 2019, the city did implement and I believe Council approved the performance management program for the city which is a complete program. It crosses all of city employees, from department heads down and it was to create timely and effective reviews with an alignment of key city values throughout all work assignments across the city. It is competency-based and intended to be done annually and I do know that I have not, since I have been here recently, but when I was helping out with another organization before that there was some tension around not having the merit increase until a valuation so I know it is happening. I cannot say recently that I have audited it to see how often. They cover all kinds of different areas that relate to what your concerns are. Leadership, management, initiative. There are goals and objectives set which can relate to how they are meeting what is in their job description and as a Council, you can direct the City Manager to report out on how current the evaluation status is with department heads. The whole program has a planning element, a coaching element, a self-evaluation element, and a review.

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: What is the state licensing authority, if any, for all fire chiefs, and if there is such a state licensing authority that requires certain elements, are those elements in the job description you are proposing for us to sign off on?
Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: It's not like a professional engineering license. You don't have to have a chief officer or fire chief license to be a fire chief. The office of the state fire marshal and the center for public safety and excellence documented criteria. They have a reciprocity between the two organizations, they determine the standards and those things that the fire chiefs hold themselves to. They also determine some of the manner in which we do the work and the curriculum of the courses that happen.

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: Part of that was, if there is no state licensing authority, then it would be the professional organizations and questioned if this is part of the job description, not only membership, but taking active participation?
Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: Absolutely. The organizations are most prominent now for our fire chiefs, the California state fire chiefs association and the Sonoma County fire chief association. They are not normally written inside a job description, other than participate, because it can change names. Participate in local associations and whatnot and they have a meeting on the ninth of august coming up, the local one does. There's the California state board of fire that local chiefs and volunteers and others can have a seat on. There is some curriculum related training boards, but they then take their time away from the organization. It is usually larger organizations.

Interim Chief Piccinini commented as follows: there are a number of other organizations, but I think that the most critical for the California state fire chiefs association and the Sonoma County fire chiefs association.

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: In your job description , it mentions preventative services, and I am just assuming that means working with other nonprofits to reduce risk, which in our case, could be the senior Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

center, providing slip and fall trainings, because as I understand, 60% of those calls are slip and falls in the home.

Is that something you have dealt with in other jurisdictions or seen in other jurisdictions that we recommend in this description?
Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: That was really intuitive because when we are looking at preventative services, the state describes it as assessing community risk first and developing and promoting community partnerships and helping to reduce those risks, creating an intervention plan that includes those groups and implementing it. If it's true that 60% of our calls are for falls, that would be a really major point in any immigration plan and that would be a goal and responsibility of any fire chief .

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: This is what has been brought up by members of the public and myself. Cost reimbursement. We have heard the need to bring in revenue, so as far as securing cost reimbursement for those who require our services and also have insurance, to require reimbursement from them for the services that they receive. Our chief, I think, has said that he does not have the bandwidth to do it, but if you were to have the bandwidth to do it, would that be something that you would encourage to be in the job description, that we pursue reimbursement for those who come in our city, get in an accident, and require a service?
Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: I think it's an awesome recommendation. We have room for something like that in the job description and I am going to speak a little bit more about that for a city this size and also how it might come back to Council . The job description has prepared and recommended long-range plans to create proposals for action and on current and future needs of the city. It also has developed, implemented, and maintained apartment goals, objectives, and goes on in another bullet to say, would you manage and administer the departmental fees and control expenditures. Cost recovery, like in planning and building and fire, that all can come underneath those pieces of the job description. It would be, if the Council could say, I would like to hear more about how we might do this, I am working right now with planning and building groups and one of the things that happens is we have to look at our ordinance to see if there's teeth and it so we can assess fees for things like that. There is a whole study that has to be done first to identify what could be recovered and what is covered elsewhere. I see it more and very much larger cities, San Francisco, new York, because they have the capacity. It takes an administrative person to manage it. There's more to it. If you are interested, a study would be the closest place to start.

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: What's your definition of emergency medical services? This has been brought up in other contexts and it's my understanding that we do not have any licensed EMTs. In your review of other jurisdictions, would it be good for us to have that be part of the job description that we look into, securing risk and also for possible reimbursement for that? Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: You may be surprised to know that our engineer job description does require EMT one as a minimum qualification. Our engineers are EMTs. They actually have to do quite a bit of training. They have to have 10 public patient contexts and pass the national exam after taking certification and then they need CPR. We will have two. Your second part of that question was the vehicle part of it and I would have to rely and have you ask, how that brought back, that cost analysis of how that might work. Rely on the experts.

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: Discussed the mobile crisis response. Other jurisdictions, this is something I brought up in budget discussions. Other sections has small trucks and can transport those in need of mental health services, but I am under the assumption we don't have such talks, now. In your review of other Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

jurisdictions, what about those cost savings? If anyone is doing a full on medical something or another. Would it be better to try to get some type of small or produced staff to show up for those things and take them in? Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: I think it's a matter of capacity but it would be something that you would want experts to give you more information on. We have limited staff and a limited budget and we do have tremendous support around us that we can assess and infer when we get to this. We are assessing, we are doing, we are first responding, we are holding them, stabilizing until the transports arrives.

Mayor Hinton opened for additional questions.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: It doesn't show the pay schedule for the position. Can I assume that a new chief will be starting at step one? I am not sure where I would find that.

Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: The pay schedule is on the website and the initial negotiation will likely start, there. It would depend on the pool. It's a little bit of a challenge, and if your direction is the only want chief that can only start at that rate, that is what your team at the city will try to do. We do try to start there.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: By approving this agenda item, so it's not a guarantee of what step we would start at.

Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: We have arrange and retry to get the best, we tried to get the best deal possible for the city. You approve arrange for each position and then you hire an operational manager for your city, and you entrust him with those series arranges to perform that role.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I understand but normally we start with step one.

Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: If that is of the policy is that you have communicated, then that is what would happen.

City staff commented as follows: Our personnel rules do state that they would start at step A and that depends on the personnel officer and who has the ability to move up if they have the qualifications for the next step.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: That decision will be made by the City Manager.

City staff commented yes; the Fire Chief is hired by the City Manager.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: In the background, I understand that our current interim fire chief has given us the benefit of his interim commitment to us, which has been very helpful. It appears that that, and when is that contract expiring?
Interim Chief Piccinini commented November 24th, 2023.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: This job description is an essential element to recruit for a fire chief and allow our intern to go off and have a retirement life. When do we foresee recruiting? Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: We have a draft bulletin that the City Manager, and Assistant City Manager will be reviewing and approving and as soon as that is ready it can be launched.

Agenda Item Number: 1
Agenda Item Number: 1
City Council Meeting Packet of: September 5, 2023

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: My final question was, to the chief, when you take a look at this job description, are you comfortable that this job description captures what a fire chief for the City of Sebastopol should be doing and the qualifications required?
Interim Chief Piccinini commented as follows: Generally, yes. For the building plans certificate, I'm not really sure, and my concern is that I generally, philosophically would argue that we should not be putting things in job descriptions that would potentially limit the cabinet pool, so if we have people who would not apply because they don't have the certificate concerns me. Other than that, I would embrace that.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I am assuming, City Manager, that requirement is what is needed, that the person who is the fire chief for the City of Sebastopol needs those certifications? City staff commented as follows: We looked at other job descriptions but it also provides a time length that gives a new fire chief 6 months get that certificate so we do not preclude anyone who doesn't have it from applying.

They would have an opportunity to obtain it.

Mayor Hinton opened for public comments.

Kyle commented as follows: Maybe a pitch, for requesting, trying to align fire services with emergency medical services as much as we can, emergency medical services are required mandated reporters. I would like to see that our fire services who in many times are in the capacity of emergency medical services are also mandated reporters. More importantly, I think that it has been said multiple times in City Council in the last few years that it could be claimed that we have a diversity problem. That we are not successfully making contact with a diverse group of people, both in community engagement as well as applicant pools, even twice I heard our human resources manager reference this position as a he, or a him. I would recommend following the last bullet under ability to, modify that to something along the lines of, "demonstrated cultural competency within a proven ability to work with people regardless of cultural differences or circumstance including race, ethnicity, religion, language, gender identity, age, marital and family status, sexual orientation, diverse physical and learning abilities, socioeconomic status, and other identities." I think it's time our city actually take a look at diversity statements and make sure they prioritize that those things are included in all job descriptions moving forward because they seriously lack and have been for some time.

Oliver commented as follows: This is a long list and I think it is a real danger. We are going to hire a bureaucrat the way it's going, probably who is diverse, as Kyle was just saying, who may not be competent and actually being fire chief and I think that's a huge problem. We are not going to attract people if we have a great long laundry list of all sorts of stipulations of things like this and activities they have to do and so on and so forth and it's the same problem I talked about, back to basics, let's get a decent, competent, experienced fire chief who knows the area and focus on enhancing after that. We are in danger of someone taking all the boxes for people who are into progressive fashions, so on and so forth. We are going to have some serious problems, riding hard on the goodwill of all of the people to fight fires in the community.

Linda commented as follows: I want to thank the previous people for their insightful comments and in addition, my experience, expertise, I think the EMTs and fired department are perfect people that ought to be educated about the danger and ought to be trained with radiofrequency because these things have a direct individual impact that people don't know about. Heart attacks, cancer, stroke, and of course, diabetes along with other things. It is pertinent and is a well-known risk and danger to all of us and that is our wireless devices, cell phones, all the smart devices needing wireless, they are not magic. They operate on microwaves, like a microwave oven Agenda Item Number: 1
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and it's alive. It needs to be recognized and people need to be trained to use these devices. My suggestion is that these fire departments ought to be outfitted with these to determine the cause of the emergency.

City Council Further Comments, Discussion and/or Deliberations:

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I would like to lead off on this one. I do fully endorse that diversity statement. I think that we are in 2023 and that should be part of every job description and I believe that they will come with those skills, but we should add and reinforce it.

Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: This is actually bigger than this job description because I’ve asked our other executive searchers on requiring language for that for the general manager, and he said that he will entertain that but I don't know. We will have our HR expert here, do you have any problem with including that paragraph related to cultural competency
Ms. Muchmore commented as follows: That's fine and I certainly agree.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I want to say something to another member of the public's comment, I mean, I don't expect that we will get a bureaucrat in our fire department but I do expect that they have the skills, that they are an expert in the field and can lead the department, so we have to have a job description that covers the requirements and they know our chief has weighed in on this and agrees with everything and he made a comment, but I feel like the job description is appropriate and would be normal for any fire chief who comes into the city to lead our fire department.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: I had a follow-up question for the City Manager. I think that it would be useful to have a report as to the status of evaluations of departments. That policy was apparently implemented in 2019, I think the statement was, whether we are in fact doing evaluations of the department. That is just a question.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: We can supply the information but I will tell you that I have done evaluations of all new department heads and we have an established process for that. The fire chief will follow up with that category, and that is where we are.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: Was the policy that was referenced in 2019, is that the evaluation policy?
City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: It is. All new employees come in on probationary status and get a six month evaluation.

Vice Mayor Rich commented as follows: Are there annual evaluations after that.

City Manager/Attorney McLaughlin commented as follows: There are.

Vide Mayor Rich commented as follows: I am not in need of any additional report, I will leave it to the rest of the City Council to request.

Mayor Hinton commented as follows: I would like a follow-up, I know that the evaluations happen for the steps, but we are implementing it in the evaluation for all employees as well.

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Councilmember Zollman commented as follows: I would request a report on where we are. I know you mentioned renewal hires for those processes but I want to report that out for, when is the last and they are meeting criteria, are they not? What rehabilitation are they providing? Requested a report before the City Manager leaves.

MOTION:

Councilmember Zollman moved and Vice Mayor Rich seconded the motion to approve Fire Chief Job Description with the following addition:

Addition of diversity statement and language for cultural competency Mayor Hinton called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Ayes: Councilmembers Maurer, Zollman, Vice Mayor Rich and Mayor Hinton Noes: None

Absent: Councilmember McLewis
Abstain: None
City Council Action: Approved Fire Chief Job Description with the following addition:

Addition of diversity statement and language for cultural competency Minute Order Number: 2023-179
Resolution Number:

ADDITIONAL PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA: Three minutes per speaker for up to twenty (20) minutes total for public comments but can be reduced at Mayor’s discretion depending upon the number of speakers or Mayor has discretion to allow for additional time beyond the 20 minutes allocated for public comment dependent upon the subject matter or number of speakers.

There was no additional public comment.

CITY COUNCIL/CITY STAFF REPORTS/COMMUNICATIONS/ANNOUNCEMENTS/FUTURE MEETINGS:

10. City Manager-Attorney/City Clerk Reports: (This will be either verbal or written reports provided at or prior to the meeting).

There was no report out.

11. City Council Reports/Committee/Sub-Committee Meeting Reports: (Reports by Mayor/City Councilmembers Regarding Various Agency Meetings/Committee Meetings/Sub-Committee Meeting /Conferences Attended and Possible Direction to its Representatives (If Needed) on Pending issues before such Boards. (This will be either verbal or written reports provided at the meeting) Councilmember Maurer reported out as follows: I attended my first senior center board meeting as the liaison, reporting in about the senior center. They have very healthy financials, in part due to the success of their store, called the legacy. They have just received the gift that can give seniors and those who may not have the opportunity to get a bike ride, they can get rides in this. They are having an errand today August 24th, which is an open house and they are having a major fundraiser called the senior prom, on September 23rd and they are going to have food, it will be catered by the harvest cafe, their own cafe at the senior center. They will have a DJ, they will have punch. It's $100 a ticket and you can get a table for 10 for $900. I took a tour of the two acre would.

They had a home that was fully electric and they actually even cut their gas line, there is no gas to that one specific home anymore. A lot of the residents there have electric cars and pg&e came and installed electric Agenda Item Number: 1
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charges on that property for them. We saw homes with heat pumps and an induction stove. I did find out that Sonoma clean power will, if you buy one of these cooktops and convert, which could require a lot of electrical changes, they will give you a full set and they also have a loner for one burner of an induction that can be plugged in. The third thing was that I did have a phone appointment with PG&E and was given a few resources and I referred her to our City Clerk/Assistant City Manager to get that information, so people can find out about power outages, et cetera, so thinking that that could be good for the newsletter for the city Councilmember Zollman reported out as follows: As was mentioned, the morning after, the ad hoc related to the measure on the 25th and the regular monthly library check in with the commissioner on the 26th. The LAB would like to be involved and to have proper notice if the library does reach out to us, talking about the cameras at the library, because they are wanting to be in on that and they want to use that authority to weigh in on such issues.

They are also having another meeting specifically for our library branch manager, which is next month. On the 28th we had another ad hoc meeting and on July 30th, Councilmember Maurer mentioned that it's wonderful, it's a two acre everything electric which is really great. One of the homes when they cut off the gas or wanted to, they said they would have to dig out all of that vertically good payment, so they did a mosaic with all the children at that facility with handprints and initials, and it's a sign that says "for our future children." Mayor Hinton reported as follows: As reported, we've spent a lot of time to get everything together with our consultant and to get that agenda item brought forth in the last two weeks. That's been most of my time. I do want to report to the Council that a number of mayors got together to interview applicant for Sonoma County and that was tonight. It is Lauren Burgess, who works for the Town of Windsor. She is obviously a professional and it seems like she has the qualifications to do the job, but her hiring would have been voted on for mayors and Councilmembers that were invited this evening to interview her in person. Just note that that happened. In my other role as appointee by Lynda Hopkins to the Fair Board, I have to plug that it is fair weak and the fair opens Thursday. This is a property opened by the County of Sonoma but is self-sustaining in the County does not fund it and anyway. It is self-funded in top emergency response locations and houses unhoused that are susceptible for covid and a variety of other things that go on at the fair that you can't even imagine until you sit on the fair board and hear about it every month. Our race day is Friday, and I invite all of you to be at the fair. If you are coming, let me know, any day, I would love to meet you for lunch and I would love to answer about any question you have.

Vice Mayor Rich reported out as follows: On the legislative committee of cities and I did check in about HR 3557.

That is a federal bill, it is moving through committee, so it's not anywhere near final at this point but it would remove control over cable franchises related to wireless telecommunications. At the moment, the National League of cities, which takes a position on federal bills, has taken a position against it, that there is a legislative committee meeting that I will be attending this Friday, the fourth of August. I have been in touch with Nancy Hall Bennett, our contact on the legislative committee and she suggested that even though they don't generally take a position on federal bills, that it is a topic that would be worth discussing at that meeting. I would go ahead and raise that because I think I have certainly been approached and asked to take a position and I’m sure that other electives have, also. I doubt that they will take an official position but I don't know. This would be a new suggestion for them and my only other report out has to do with July 21, the presentation I did. That was a noon meeting and they had requested Mayor Hinton’s presence but she was unavailable so I subbed in and I gave a report on the status of various issues of interest and did inform them about our budgetary situation and the potential for a sales tax measure and got the word out about that. I did not get a huge amount of pushback and they are known for being vocal about their opinions, so there you go.

12. Council Communications Received (Information/Meetings/Correspondence Received from the General Public to Councilmembers)
There was none.

Agenda Item Number: 1
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13. Future City Meeting Dates/Events (Informational Only): (See City Web Site for Up-to-Date Meeting Dates/Times)
CLOSED SESSION: NONE

ADJOURNMENT OF CITY COUNCIL MEETING
August 1, 2023 Meeting will be adjourned to the Special City Council Meeting of August 8, 2023 at 6:00 pm.

August 8, 2023 Special City Council Meeting will be adjourned to the Regular City Council Meeting of September 5, 2023 at 6:00 pm (In Person and Remote/Zoom Virtual Meeting Format) Please Note: City Council Regular Meeting of August 15, 2023 has been cancelled.

Mayor Hinton adjourned the City Council Meeting of August 1, 2023 at 9:58 pm to the Special City Council Meeting of August 8, 2023 at 6:00 pm. August 8, 2023 Special City Council Meeting will be adjourned to the Regular City Council Meeting of September 5, 2023 at 6:00 pm (In Person and Remote/Zoom Virtual Meeting Format)
Please note: The City Council Meeting of Tuesday, August 15th 2023 has been cancelled.

Respectfully Submitted,
Mary C. Gourley
Assistant City Manager/City Clerk, MMC

Agenda Item Number: 1
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