Agenda-Item-Number-1-City-Council-Meeting-Minutes-of-Aug-4-2026 — Sebastopol City Council, September 1, 2026 (part 1 of 2)

Agenda Item Number 1

CITY COUNCIL MEETING AGENDA
Regular Meeting of Tuesday, August 4, 2026
6:00 pm Start Time
As Approved by the City Council at their regular meeting of September 1, 2026.

CALL TO ORDER: Mayor McLewis called the meeting to order 6:03 p.m.

ROLL CALL:

Present: Mayor Jill McLewis
Vice Mayor Sandra Maurer
Councilmember Phill Carter
Councilmember Stephen Zollman
Councilmember Neysa Hinton

Absent:

Staff: Mary Gourley, City Manager
Alex Mog, City Attorney, Redwood Public Law
Administrative Services Director Kwong
Police Chief McDonagh
REMOTE PARTICIPATION: None
SALUTE TO THE FLAG Mayor McLewis led the salute to the flag.

LAND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT: The City of Sebastopol acknowledges that we live and work within the unceded ancestral homelands of the Southern Pomo and the Coast Miwok people. We pay our respect to the past, present, and future generations of these peoples, including the Federated Indians of Graton Rancheria.

REMEMBERING THE HISTORY OF SEBASTOPOL: The Mayor presented information on the history of Sebastopol.

PROCLAMATIONS/PRESENTATIONS/INTRODUCTIONS:

The following was presented:
• Proclamation- Proclaiming August Ukraine’s Independence Day Minute Order Number: 2026-212
STATEMENTS OF CONFLICTS OF INTEREST: Conflicts of interest may arise in situations where a public official deliberating towards a decision, has an actual or potential financial interest in the matter before the Council. In accordance with state law, an actual conflict of interest is one that would be to the private financial benefit of a public official, a relative or a business with which the Councilmember is associated. A potential conflict of interest is one that could be to the private financial benefit of a Councilmember, a relative or a business with which the Councilmember is associated. A Councilmember must publicly announce potential and actual conflicts of interest, and, in the case of actual conflict of interest, must refrain from participating in debate on the issue or from voting on the issue and must remove themselves from the dais.

PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA (FIRST COMMENT PERIOD): Up to Twenty (20) Minute Time Limit (Two Minutes for up to ten speakers). Additional public comment will be held at the end of the discussion and action items for up to an additional twenty (20) minutes. Mayor has discretion to allow for additional time beyond the 20 minutes allocated for public comment dependent upon the subject matter or number of speakers.

Process for calling on Speakers: Mayor or designee shall ask for public comment as follows: Speakers to be called on in an alternate manner (One speaker in person to be called on first; then one speaker remote to be called on second with additional speakers to be called on in the same manner) based upon the time limit.

The following member(s) of the public spoke during public comment for items not on the agenda:

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Agenda Item Number 1
Steve Sebastopol World Friends
Bianca Small business advocacy; keep Sebastopol local campaign; grocery outlet Member of the Public Proclamation/Status of Women
Kate Grand Jury report/City reply
Lisa Relocation of library
Steve Relocation of Library
Kyle City Management/City Administration/Election
CONSENT CALENDAR: The consent agenda consists of items that are routine in nature and do not require additional discussion by the City Council or have been reviewed by the City Council previously. These items may be approved by one motion without discussion unless a member of the City Council requests that the item be taken off the consent calendar.

The Mayor will read aloud the title of each consent item (either full agenda title or a simplified version of the agenda title), and ask if a Councilmember wishes to remove one or more items from the consent calendar; and then open public comment to the members of the public in attendance. At this time, a member of the public may speak for up to two (2) minutes on the entire consent calendar and request at that time that an item or items removed for discussion.

If an item or items are removed from the consent calendar, the item shall be placed at the end of the regular agenda items unless otherwise determined by the Mayor. Council Members may comment on Consent Calendar items or ask for minor clarifications without the need for pulling the item for separate consideration. Items requiring deliberation should be pulled for separate consideration and shall be placed at the end of the regular agenda items unless otherwise determined by the Mayor.

Mayor McLewis read the consent calendar.

Mayor McLewis asked if any Councilmember wanted to remove a consent calendar item Mayor McLewis requested Item Number 3 be removed for vote only.

Mayor McLewis opened for public comment. The following member(s) of the public spoke during public comment:

Kyle Millions of Dollars/TOT for new hotel
Bianca Support Barlow/what buying with public investment Steve Hotel TOT
Kate: Was room for negotiations
Mayor McLewis called for a motion.

MOTION:

Vice Mayor Maurer moved and Councilmember Zollman seconded the motion to approve consent calendar items 1, 2, 4, and 5. Item number 3 has been removed for a separate vote.

Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Ayes: Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, Zollman, Vice Mayor Maurer and Mayor McLewis Noes: None

Absent: None
Abstain: None

1. Approval of City Council Meeting Minutes for Regular Meeting of July 21, 2026 Responsible Department: City Manager
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the minutes is covered within existing budgeted salaries.

Additional Fiscal Impact: None
City Council Action: Approved City Council Meeting Minutes for Regular Meeting of July 21, 2026.

Minute Order Number: 2026-213

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2. Approval of Waiving of Second Reading and Adoption of Ordinance to Amend Sebastopol Municipal Code Section. Under the City’s Municipal Code, the City Manager possesses the authority to appoint, remove, promote, and demote any and all officers and employees of the City of Sebastopol, except the City Clerk, City Attorney, and City Treasurer. This amendment changes the requirement to include the City Clerk under the City Manager hiring authority. (2.12.100 Power of appointment, etc.) Responsible Department: City Attorney/City Manager
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda item is covered within existing budgeted salaries.

Additional Fiscal Impact: None
Ordinance Number: 1168
City Council Action: Approved Waiving of Second Reading and Adoption of Ordinance 1168 to Amend Sebastopol Municipal Code to include the City Clerk under the City Manager’s hiring authority.

Minute Order Number: 2026-214

3. Approval of ordinance authorizing an amendment to the development agreement for the Barlow Hotel to approve a TOT sharing arrangement: Section 7.5.5. Uniform Transient Occupancy Tax Rebate. In exchange for all of the benefits provided by this Development Agreement and the Project to the City, the City shall rebate a portion of the Uniform Transient Occupancy Tax collected from the Project. The City shall rebate 50% of the 12% tax that is levied through the Uniform Transient Occupancy Tax and provided to the City. In the event that the City increases the Uniform Transient Occupancy Tax, the City shall have no obligation to rebate any amount attributable to the portion of the Uniform Transient Occupancy Tax greater than the 12% tax rate. The rebate will commence upon occupancy of the hotel and continue for a period of 10 years. The Uniform Transient Occupancy Tax will be levied and submitted to the City and the City shall remit 50% of the 12% of the tax to the payee of the tax. The payee of the tax and/or the Developer or its Successor shall use the remitted tax funds for advertisement of tourism in the City of Sebastopol, including the Barlow Hotel as a destination in the City of Sebastopol. The City may request, and payee of tax shall provide, at least annually, documentation of how the remitted tax funds were spent for such purposes, but the City shall have no authority to direct such spending.

4. Approval of Voting Delegates and Alternates, League of California Cities Annual Conference & Expo ––, Anaheim CA September 23-24-25, 2026; A voting delegated must be registered for the conference to be a voting delegate. Mayor McLewis is registered for the conference and will be attending conference.

Responsible Department: City Manager
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda item is covered within existing budgeted salaries.

Additional Fiscal Impact: None; Each Councilmember has a travel budget of $2000 allocated in the FY 26 27 City Budget.

City Council Action: Approved Voting Delegates and Alternates for League of California Cities Annual Conference & Expo – Anaheim, CA – September 23, 24, and 25, 2026.

Minute Order Number: 2026-215

5. Approval of Amendment to Contract for 8th Wave (Robin Stefani) for Continuation of Monitoring of Gravenstein Commons for Compliance with HUD and City Requirements.

Responsible Department: City Manager
Fiscal Impact: None
Additional Fiscal Impact: There is no fiscal impact to the City for approval of the continuation of this contract.

SVDP to fund the continuation of the contract in the amount of $10,000 for payment of continued services of 8th Wave for monitoring of Gravenstein Commons.

City Council Action: Approved Amendment to Contract for 8th Wave for Continuation of Monitoring of Gravenstein Commons for Compliance with HUD and City Requirements.

Minute Order Number: 2026-216
Councilmember Hinton requested item number 3 be pulled for further discussion. Item three was moved to the end of the agenda.

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INFORMATIONAL ITEMS/PRESENTATIONS: Informational Items or Presentations are items that are informational only and do not require action by the City Council. Presentations shall be scheduled as necessary for the promotion of an event or service or general information items to the Council and should be limited to ten (10) minutes total in length of item (total length includes questions of Council to presenter and public comment). NONE PUBLIC HEARING(s): NONE
REGULAR CALENDAR AGENDA ITEMS (DISCUSSION AND/OR ACTION):

6. Discussion and Action of Ordinance Related to Newspaper Racks (This item was scheduled for the July 21st City Council Meeting; but was not heard due to adjournment of the meeting per Council protocols) Responsible Department: Mayor McLewis/City Attorney
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda report is covered within existing budgeted salaries.

Additional Fiscal Impact: The exact amount of staff time involved with enforcement of the Ordinance is unknown and will depend significantly on the number and severity of violations.

Mayor McLewis and City Attorney Mog presented the Agenda item.

Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.

Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the public comment period:

Kyle
Kate
Oliver
Laura
Member of the public
City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:

Council continued discussion of the item.

Mayor McLewis called for a motion.

MOTION:

Councilmember Hinton moved and Mayor McLewis seconded the motion to approve the introduction and waiving of the first reading of an ordinance to add Chapter 5.66, “Newsrack Regulations,” to the Sebastopol Municipal Code.

Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Ayes: Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, and Mayor McLewis
Noes: Councilmember Zollman and Vice Mayor Maurer

Absent: None
Abstain: None
Ordinance Number: 1169
City Council Action: Approved Waiving of First Reading and Introduction of Ordinance to add Chapter 5.66, “Newsrack Regulations” to the Sebastopol Municipal Code.

Minute Order Number: 2026-217
Mayor McLewis had to depart the meeting at 7:09 pm and returned at 7:14 pm.

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7. Consideration of Reimbursement of $350,354 in City Attorney Budget Allocation to the Water and Sewer Enterprise Funds
Requestor: Mayor McLewis
Responsible Department: City Attorney
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda item is covered within existing budgeted salaries.

Additional Fiscal Impact: Budget Amendment to transfer Funding from General Fund Reserves to the Water and Sewer Enterprise Funds
Mayor McLewis and City Attorney Mog presented the Agenda item.

Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.

Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the public comment period:

Kyle
Kate
Oliver
City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:

Council continued discussion of the item.

Mayor McLewis called for a motion.

MOTION:

Mayor McLewis moved and Councilmember Carter seconded the motion to approve:

1. Reimbursement of $350,354 in City Attorney Budget Allocation to the Water and Sewer Enterprise Funds:

Water Enterprise Fund: $130,867
Sewer Enterprise Fund: $219,487; and

2. Approve a Budget Amendment to transfer $350,354 from General Fund Reserves to the Water and Sewer Enterprise Funds as allocated above; and

3. Direct continued review of the broader Enterprise Fund Oversight Committee (EFOC) recommendations such as EFOC Recommendations related to the City Manager Department Budget due to vacancy of position. This should be reviewed once the City Audit has been completed for the FY 25 26 Budget for actual costs and should be returned to Council for review.

Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Ayes: Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, Zollman, Vice Mayor Maurer and Mayor McLewis Noes: None

Absent: None
Abstain: None
Resolution Number: 6792-2026
City Council Action: Approved Reimbursement of $130,867 to the Water Enterprise Fund, and $219,487 to the Sewer Enterprise Fund.

Minute Order Number: 2026-218

8. Introduction and Waiving of First Reading of an Ordinance Amending Sebastopol Municipal Code Chapter 12.24 (Obstruction of Streets, Sidewalks or Public Places) to Add Provisions Prohibiting Sitting or Lying on Public Sidewalks During Certain Hours

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Requestor: Mayor McLewis
Responsible Department: City Attorney
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda item is covered within existing budgeted salaries.

Additional Fiscal Impact: There is no direct fiscal impact associated with the introduction of this Ordinance.

Enforcement activities are expected to be absorbed within existing budget.

Mayor McLewis and City Attorney Mog presented the Agenda item.

Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.

Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the public comment period:

Member of the audience
Kate
Oliver
Kyle
City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:

Council continued discussion of the item.

Mayor McLewis called for a motion.

MOTION:

Mayor McLewis moved to approve introduction and waiving of full reading of the attached proposed Ordinance amending Chapter 12.24 of the Sebastopol Municipal Code to add Section 12.24.060, “Sitting or Lying on Public Sidewalks,” prohibiting sitting or lying upon a public sidewalk between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 11:00 p.m., with specified exceptions, and schedule the second reading and adoption for the Regular City Council Meeting of September 1, 2026.

NO SECOND: Motion Fails Due to Lack of Second
City Council Action: No Action Taken Due to Failure to Obtain a Second.

Minute Order Number: 2026-219

9. Request for Approval of Hours for City Attorney Research on Legal Options on Response to Community Concerns of Graffiti and Racial Mockery Associated with the Safeway Area Councilmember Zollman presented the Agenda item.

Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.

Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the public comment period:

Kyle
Member of the public
Oliver
Laura
City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:

Council continued discussion of the item.

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Mayor McLewis called for a motion.

MOTION:

Councilmember Zollman moved and Councilmember Carter seconded the motion to approve 10 Hours for City Attorney Research on Legal Options on Response to Community Concerns of Graffiti and Racial Mockery Associated with the Safeway Area focusing on restorative justice model and return this item to the September 1st City Council Meeting.

Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Ayes: Councilmembers Carter, Zollman and Vice Mayor Maurer Noes: Councilmember Hinton and Mayor McLewis

Absent: None
Abstain: None
City Council Action: Approved 10 Hours for City Attorney Research on Legal Options on Response to Community Concerns of Graffiti and Racial Mockery Associated with the Safeway Area focusing on restorative justice model and return this item to the September 1, 2026 City Council Meeting.

Minute Order Number: 2026-220

10. Consideration of Contribution of Formation of EIFD and next steps.

Requestors: Councilmember Carter/Councilmember Hinton
Responsible Department: Planning Department
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda report is covered within existing budgeted salaries.

Additional Fiscal Impact: $75,000 has been st aside in the FY 26 27 Budget for consultant services. The cost of the proposed Agreement is $40,000 for professional services (hourly) at Kosmont's standard billing rates, plus reimbursement for approved out-of-pocket expenses and a 4% administrative services fee. Invoices will be submitted monthly. There will also be additional costs of $35,000 for surveying consultant services. These onetime formation costs are expected to be reimbursable from future EIFD tax increment revenues once the district is formed and begins generating increment (typically within the first few years Councilmembers Carter and Hinton presented the Agenda item.

Mayor McLewis opened for questions of staff. The Council asked various questions of City staff.

Mayor McLewis opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the public comment period:

Lee
Oliver
City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:

Council continued discussion of the item.

Mayor McLewis called for a motion.

MOTION:

Councilmember Hinton moved and Councilmember Carter seconded the motion to:

1. Approve the Agreement with Kosmont Companies for Financing District Formation Advisory Services in an amount not to exceed $40,000; and

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2. Authorize the City Manager to execute the Agreement with Kosmont Companies; and

3. Optional/Add On 1 — Authorize an additional $10,000 - $15,000 Budget Amendment Increase for Optional Task 4: Boundary Evaluation and Map Revision, to evaluate growth areas within City limits currently outside the proposed corridor boundary before the boundary is fixed at formation. This would increase the Not to Exceed amount to $50,000 - $55,000 for Kosmont. (This optional task does not expand the EIFD beyond City limits.)

4. Optional/Add On 2 - Authorize an additional $20,000 Budget Amendment Increase to add areas outside of the City. This was not originally included but is a recommendation from this committee. This would not assume additional costs for the surveying work, since surveying work has not started and a surveyor would be starting fresh only once a final boundary is agreed upon.

Total Budget Adjustment: $35,000.

Mayor McLewis called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Ayes: Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, and Zollman
Noes: Vice Mayor Maurer and Mayor McLewis

Absent: None
Abstain: None
Resolution Number: 6793-2026
City Council Action: Approved: Agreement with Kosmont Companies for Financing District Formation Advisory Services; to Authorize the City Manager to execute the agreement; to add the Option 1 add-on for $15,000; and the Option 2 add-on budget amendment for $20,000.

Minute Order Number: 2026-221
Mayor McLewis recused herself for item number 3 and departed the Council chamber.

Responsible Department: Planning/City Attorney
Fiscal Impact: Staff time required to prepare the agenda item is covered within existing budgeted salaries.

Additional Fiscal Impact: None
Vice Mayor Maurer opened the item and asked for questions of Councilmember Hinton who removed the item.

Vice Mayor Maurer opened the public comment period. The following member(s) of the public spoke during the public comment period:

Kyle

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Bianca
Member of the public spoke
City Council Discussion/Deliberations/Comments:

Council continued discussion of the item.

Vice Mayor Maurer called for a motion.

MOTION:

Councilmember Hinton moved and Councilmember Zollman seconded the motion to approve ordinance authorizing an amendment to the development agreement for the Barlow Hotel to approve a TOT sharing arrangement: Section

7.5.5. Uniform Transient Occupancy Tax Rebate.

Item Number 3 as amended:

Directed staff to create a City policy to be returned to the City Council requiring that City staff shall annually by March of each year formally request the annual report from the hotel owner the annual report of marketing for the City to be presented to the City Council by June of each year.

Vice Mayor Maurer called for a roll call vote. City staff conducted a roll call vote.

VOTE:

Ayes: Councilmembers Carter, Hinton, and Zollman
Noes: Vice Mayor Maurer

Absent: Mayor McLewis
Abstain: None
Ordinance Number 1167
City Council Action: Approved Ordinance 1167 authorizing an amendment to the development agreement for the Barlow Hotel to approve a TOT sharing arrangement: Section 7.5.5. Uniform Transient Occupancy Tax Rebate.

Minute Order Number: 2026-222
Mayor McLewis returned to the dais.

ADDITIONAL PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA: Two minutes per speaker for up to twenty (20) minutes total for public comments but can be reduced at Mayor’s discretion depending upon the number of speakers or Mayor has discretion to allow for additional time beyond the 20 minutes allocated for public comment dependent upon the subject matter or number of speakers.

None
COUNCILMEMBER(S) REQUESTS FOR FUTURE CITY COUNCIL AGENDA ITEMS:

Discussion of City Council Cost Allocations to Enterprise Fund (Vice Mayor Maurer/Councilmember Zollman) CITY COUNCIL/CITY STAFF REPORTS/COMMUNICATIONS/ANNOUNCEMENTS/FUTURE MEETINGS:

11. City Manager and/or City Clerk Reports: (This will be either verbal reports at the meeting, or written reports provided at or prior to the meeting)
Associate Planner hired; on board mid August
Conducted Interviews with proposers who submitted Planning Consultant Services Proposals Interviewing additional candidates for permanent Planning Director position

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12. City Council Reports/Committee/Sub-Committee Meeting Reports: (Reports by Mayor/City Councilmembers Regarding Various Agency Meetings/Committee Meetings/Sub-Committee Meeting /Conferences Attended and Possible Direction to its Representatives (If Needed) on Pending issues before such Boards. ((This will be either verbal reports at the meeting, or written reports provided at or prior to the meeting). The following members provided reports:
a. Councilmember Zollman
b. Councilmember Hinton

13. Council Communications Received (Information/Meetings/Correspondence Received from the General Public to Councilmembers)
Vice Mayor Maurer discussed receiving communications/questions related to an application submittal from Crown Castle
CLOSED SESSION: NONE

ADJOURNMENT OF CITY COUNCIL MEETING
August 4, 2026 City Council Regular Meeting was adjourned by Mayor McLewis at 10:03 pm the next Regular City Council Meeting of Tuesday, Sept 1, 2026 at 6:00 pm, Sebastopol Youth Annex, 425 Morris Street, Sebastopol, CA.

The regularly scheduled City Council Meeting of August 18, 2026 has been cancelled.

Respectfully submitted:

Mary C. Gourley
City Manager
Attachment 1: ZOOM Raw Minutes
Attachment 2: VITAC Real Time Transcription Minutes

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WEBVTT
1 00:00:04.059 --> 00:00:05.360
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Absolutely.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'll assign this to the north level.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Let's see.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Come on.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Pretty good.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, instead of cleaning hotel. 8 00:01:12.970 --> 00:01:15.900
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Are you ready, or… 9 00:01:18.240 --> 00:01:20.399
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm sorry, did you say… okay. 10 00:01:49.730 --> 00:01:52.389
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Everyone ready? Cody, we good? 11 00:01:52.820 --> 00:01:54.060
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yep, okay.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, everyone, welcome this evening to our meeting. Let's see, we're gonna go ahead and get started, and we're at 6.03, we're calling to order, if you'd like to do roll call, Mary. Thank you, Mayor. Councilmember Carter?
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Here. Councilmember Hinton? Here.

Councilmember Zolman? Present. Vice Mayor Maurer? Here. Mayor McLewis? Here. Please note, all Councilmembers are present. All right, thank you.

Let's see, so now we're gonna go ahead and, do Salute to the flag, since we have no remote participation.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: By the United States. 15 00:02:32.610 --> 00:02:33.779
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to the republic.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: indivisible, liberty, and justice all.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, sorry.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Don't hurt again. 19 00:02:46.930 --> 00:02:51.459
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: What was that? What was that? 20 00:02:52.990 --> 00:02:57.910
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is everything okay before we… well, we have to make sure all the electronics…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sure, go ahead.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We're good?
23 00:03:24.410 --> 00:03:44.270
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, all right. So, at every meeting, we read a land acknowledgement. The City of Sebastopol acknowledges that we live and work within the unceded ancestral homelands of the Southern Pomo and Coast Miwok people. We pay our respect to the past, present, and future generations of these peoples, including the Federated Indians of Great and Rancheria.

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And the next step is, as mayor, I like to remember the history of Sebastopol. Again, this was, with the help of Teresa Raimondo and our West County
25 00:03:54.770 --> 00:04:18.679
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Museum. This week, we're just looking at, at the different theaters that we've had here in Sebastopol.

I didn't realize that we had so many, so she kindly gave us some pictures and the names. We had early… we had early theaters in vaudeville in the early mid-20th century. Movies were a major attraction in Sebastopol. We actually had Starlin theater at 175 North Main Street, which opened in 1912.
26 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:26.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And closed in 1932. And then, then it briefly opened again in the 1930s. And then we had Ana Lee Theater. 27 00:04:26.980 --> 00:04:41.829
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's the next one, and it was built in 1948 and was actually at the 3… at 364 North Main Street, and it was the key downtown venue. It was in operation until 1974, until it was demolished, to make way for the Safeway parking lot.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The El Rey Theater is… was located at 226 South Main Street, and it began as the Royal Theater and opened in 1927 with,
29 00:04:53.120 --> 00:05:06.609
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a movie, Swim, Girl, Swim, but it closed in 1931, and reopened as the El Rey Theater in 1932, and again, it was closed again in 1949, when the Ana Lee Theater actually opened. 30 00:05:06.760 --> 00:05:26.589
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then they had… there were some later developments. The Ana Lee Theater's closure marked a shift in our downtown entertainment, and in the 1990s, Sebastopol's cultural scene saw a revival in interest in theater history. So most… more recently, we have the Rialto Cinemas, which opened in, 2012 at its current location. 31 00:05:26.630 --> 00:05:40.789
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then we also had, some legacy theaters. Let's see, I'm looking at them all here. I think this is… Agenda Item Number 1
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that's pretty much the gist of it, but Mary, had some pictures there if people were interested in looking at, what we had here. 32 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:59.630
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, just a little trivia history for everybody, and then I am going to move on to proclamations, and we have one proclamation tonight, and it is for, it is proclaiming August 24th, 2026, as Ukraine's Independence Day.
33 00:05:59.870 --> 00:06:24.270
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Whereas for centuries, the Ukrainian people have courageously fought for their freedom, selfgovernance, and national identity, overcoming challenges and preserving their rich cultural heritage. And whereas on August 24th, 1991, Ukraine achieved independence from the Soviet Union, marking a historic milestone in the Ukrainian people's journey towards freedom, democracy, and selfdetermination. 34 00:06:24.420 --> 00:06:36.409
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas the City of Sebastopol recognizes the importance of promoting cultural diversity, fostering international understanding, and supporting the aspirations of all nations towards freedom, justice, and independence.
35 00:06:36.410 --> 00:06:47.140
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas in 1993, to further the goal of supporting citizen diplomacy, the City of Sebastopol entered into a sister city agreement with the city of Chiran, Ukraine. 36 00:06:47.140 --> 00:07:08.269
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas for the past 33 years, through the efforts of Sebastopol World Friends, the Sebastopol community has developed deep and lasting relationships with the Chiran community by way of education and cultural exchanges. And whereas the City of Sebastopol desires to show its solidarity with the Ukrainian people in their pursuit of peace, sovereignty, and territorial integrity. 37 00:07:08.320 --> 00:07:18.560
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Now, therefore, it be resolved that I, Jill McLewis, Mayor of the City of Sebastopol, on behalf of the City Council, do hereby proclaim August 24th, 2026, as Ukraine's 38 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:33.489
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Independence Day in the City of Sebastopol, and call upon all residents to join in commemorating this significant occasion to honor our Ukrainian sister city, and to recognize Agenda Item Number 1
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the Ukrainian people's enduring spirit and ongoing struggle for freedom and self-governance.
39 00:07:33.810 --> 00:07:41.949
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, I know we… we have, oh, there's… we have some… we have, you're just coming up to accept? Yeah, yeah, totally.
40 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:43.640
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We're gonna hand you this. 41 00:07:44.030 --> 00:07:45.460
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Apologies for folks. 42 00:07:49.690 --> 00:07:53.200
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you very much. 43 00:07:59.990 --> 00:08:07.569
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, and then I just needed to find out if there are any statements or conflicts of interest tonight. 44 00:08:07.820 --> 00:08:13.450
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Nope. Okay. All right, so Mary, can we go to public comment for items not on the agenda?
45 00:08:14.070 --> 00:08:30.200
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So, as you stated, this is for public comment for items that are not on the agenda.

It is a 20-minute time limit, it is 2 minutes per person. We do in chambers first, and then go out to Zoom, and then come back into chambers. So, if there's anyone in chambers that would like to make a public comment.
46 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:34.950
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You can, you can just go there. 47 00:08:35.190 --> 00:08:42.529
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Good evening, everyone. It's, I'm Steve Levenberg. I'm here representing Sebastopol World Friends, and it's,
48 00:08:42.830 --> 00:08:48.439
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: My pleasure to follow along after the proclamation. We really appreciate that.

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49 00:08:48.570 --> 00:08:58.019
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And the people in Chicron, the people in Ukraine really appreciate any show of solidarity. It just… 50 00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:00.899
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Makes them not feel so alone. 51 00:09:01.310 --> 00:09:19.690
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sebastopol World Friends has been a strong supporter of Chikarin and has raised funds since 2022 to benefit humanitarian projects in and around Chikarin, the most recent one being that of renovation of a dormitory.
52 00:09:19.810 --> 00:09:27.850
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's housing internally displaced people who've lost their homes and often lost their cities as a result of the war.
53 00:09:28.300 --> 00:09:40.339
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's very exciting tonight to, announce that Sister City International just recently awarded Sebastopol World Friends their
54 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:52.200
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Award for Innovation in Humanitarian Assistance at their most recent meeting, and that was presented… Meg Mizutani was there at the meeting to
55 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:53.810
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To receive this.
56 00:09:54.020 --> 00:10:01.849
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's very exciting, and it's nice to have, you know, our hard work represented. It's all past that. 57 00:10:04.730 --> 00:10:14.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We continue to raise funds for that project, and an exciting, event that occurred recently was that 58 00:10:14.990 --> 00:10:32.019
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In collaboration with Sebastopol Rotary and Rotary of Cher Cassie. If you have about 20 seconds. Okay, Chaircase of Santa Rosa's sister city. Rotary received an international Agenda Item Number 1
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grant for $140,000 that will help to facilitate the completion of that project.
59 00:10:33.810 --> 00:10:41.070
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And October 4th, we invite everyone to join us for a fundraising event.
60 00:10:41.280 --> 00:10:55.219
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to support that Shashleek and beer at Regal Ranch Park from 1 to 4 p.m. Thank you. Thank you for your public comment. I will go out to… I'm going to go out to Zoom real quick, and then I'll come right back.
61 00:10:56.290 --> 00:11:01.510
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So again, this is for public comment for items not on the agenda. Bianca, can you unmute yourself, please?
62 00:11:03.310 --> 00:11:17.579
Bianca Blomquist: Hey there, thank you so much. Good evening, Mayor and Council Members. My name is Bianca Blomquist. My background is in small business advocacy and economic policy, and I just wanted to recognize 63 00:11:17.680 --> 00:11:33.099
Bianca Blomquist: the work that the Keep Sebastopol Local campaign is doing, how important it is that the City Council sticks to its general plan, and the Keep Sebastopol Local campaign's doing a great job of reminding folks of what that general plan is.
64 00:11:33.100 --> 00:11:40.329
Bianca Blomquist: But we just really encourage the City Council to continue to evaluate how the grocery outlet proposal
65 00:11:40.330 --> 00:11:48.289
Bianca Blomquist: will impact our workers and the small business owners and the small grocers and independent grocers that already exist in Sebastopol.
66 00:11:48.490 --> 00:11:53.019
Bianca Blomquist: Economists like to call this the local multiplier effect.
67 00:11:53.050 --> 00:12:07.689
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Bianca Blomquist: that for every $100 spent at a locally owned business, it generates about $68 in local economic activity. And this is compared with just $43 at a national chain, and the reason for that is because 68 00:12:07.690 --> 00:12:14.010
Bianca Blomquist: Independent business owners are more likely to hire a local accountant. Shout out to Haley's Tax Service.
69 00:12:14.010 --> 00:12:17.199
Bianca Blomquist: An attorney, a printer, like…
70 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:29.009
Bianca Blomquist: Sprint Copy Center, banks, other local businesses, they donate to local nonprofits and spend their profits in the community. And while Grocery Outlet has a hybrid model, it's not like
71 00:12:29.030 --> 00:12:33.050
Bianca Blomquist: A full-blown franchise model, but kind of quasi-one. 72 00:12:33.050 --> 00:12:55.620
Bianca Blomquist: The individual stores are operated by local entrepreneurs, but they still remain part of a publicly traded national company with a centralized brand and a supply chain system. And so, as the, the famous economist says, Michael Shoman says, the more times and the faster a dollar passes between hands without leakage. 73 00:12:55.620 --> 00:13:01.780
Bianca Blomquist: the more income, wealth, and jobs in a community. So, thank you so much for hearing my public comment.
74 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:18.640
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Bianca, for your public comment. Next, I'll come into Chambers. Good evening, my name is Lori Ogg, and I'm representing the Sonoma County Commission on the Status of Women, and tonight I would like to present a resolution proclaiming August 26, 2026, as Women's Equality Day in Sonoma County. 75 00:13:18.680 --> 00:13:33.340
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, if I may read the resolution, whereas on August 26, 2026, we mark the 106th anniversary of the enactment of the 19th Amendment to the United States Constitution, which secured the right to vote for women.
76 00:13:33.340 --> 00:13:51.079
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas to secure this right, women were forced to conduct 56 referendum campaigns, 480 campaigns to get legislatures to submit suffrage amendments, 277 campaigns to state party conventions, 19 campaigns to 19 successive congresses, and get the 77 00:13:51.080 --> 00:14:03.989
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Consent of the 36 states and more, and whereas today, women constitute nearly 50% of our workforce, the majority of the students in our colleges and graduate schools, and an increasing number of primary breadwinners.
78 00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:16.150
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas, over the past 3 years, women's incomes have declined, and as of mid-2026, women working fulltime earned 81% of what men earned, down from 85% in 2023. 79 00:14:16.250 --> 00:14:27.440
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas, even with the gains women had made, women's role as equal members of our society and their rights are being challenged and reversed in multiple arenas, including the fundamental right to vote.
80 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:32.939
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Access to reproductive healthcare, and protection from being the subject of personal violence. 81 00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:47.510
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas, here in Sonoma County, the Board of Supervisors in 1976 established the Commission on the Status of Women with the express purpose of working to ensure equal rights and opportunities that enhance the quality of life for all women and girls. 82 00:14:47.510 --> 00:14:53.299
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and address the issues of discrimination and prejudice that negatively affect women in Sonoma County.
83 00:14:53.370 --> 00:15:08.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And whereas more work remains to be done in many areas that directly impact equal pay for equal work, including access to quality, affordable childcare, affordable housing, comprehensive healthcare for women, and mental health care. 84 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:15.540
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Now, therefore, be it resolved, the Board of Supervisors proclaims August 26, 2026,
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: as Women's Equality Day, marking the 106th anniversary of the enactment of the 19th Amendment, celebrating the achievements of women and recommitting to gender equality in Sonoma County and all women's fundamental rights. Okay. Thank you. 86 00:15:33.390 --> 00:15:36.880
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Next, I will go out to Zoom. Kate, can you unmute yourself, please?
87 00:15:37.590 --> 00:15:38.800
kate: I can, thank you.
88 00:15:38.800 --> 00:15:40.449
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Can you see the timer? 89 00:15:40.450 --> 00:15:41.240
kate: I can't think.
90 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:42.309
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sure, go ahead, please. 91 00:15:42.590 --> 00:15:52.980
kate: I am here to ask why the Council and City did not respond to the financial documents produced by the EFOC in the City's grand jury reply. 92 00:15:52.980 --> 00:16:03.950
kate: The EFC has at least 50 pages of financial documentation based on actual city budgets. Why was this not included in the grand jury reply? 93 00:16:03.950 --> 00:16:26.940
kate: When the Council says they want to research more to determine a dollar amount owed to the enterprise funds, why don't they respond to all the financial analysis the EFOC has provided? The city organized the EFOC. The ratepayers pay probably $1,500 or more for each meeting as staff is paid to prepare for and attend the meetings.
94 00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:28.130
kate: Why is…
95 00:16:29.160 --> 00:16:41.749
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kate: Why is there no response to the fact that the finance administration costs tripled in 9 years to almost $1 million, even though the number of accounts and services remained steady?
96 00:16:41.750 --> 00:16:54.070
kate: How come there's no response to the fact that the cost allocation plan wasn't adjusted after doubling the size of the finance department, which most likely accounts for the fact that expenses tripled? 97 00:16:54.070 --> 00:16:59.320
kate: How come there's no response to the fact that current councils allotted to
98 00:16:59.510 --> 00:17:14.870
kate: the enterprise funds for over 50% of their entire budget, even though we all know this is not a true allocation. The EFOC has recommended efficiencies in the finance department. Why hasn't Council responded?
99 00:17:14.950 --> 00:17:33.960
kate: The EFOC has recommended getting bids for third-party vendors for billing to reduce cost to ratepayers. Why hasn't the Council responded? Why are ratepayers paying for the EFOC if the Council is not going to address the issues with which the EFOC is presented?
100
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kate: why it…
101
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kate: Is there no response to the counsel from valid work that has been done? One of the EFOC's recommendations is for an forensic accountant. I hope that that's too many facts on this. Thank you.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.

Next, I will come into chambers, if there's anyone in chambers. 103
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to Zoom.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Steve, can you unmute yourself, please?
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Steve Pierce: Yes, hi, this is actually Lisa Pierce. I'm… we're hoping that Steve can also speak for us on a separate time, with the same hand raise.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead. Can you see the timer, Lisa?
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Steve Pierce: Yes, I can, thank you.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead, please. 109
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Steve Pierce: Yeah, good evening, Mayor and Council.
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Steve Pierce: I, wanted to say a bit about the big decision that will be coming before you soon, the option of relocating our library, senior center, and community center in City Hall.
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Steve Pierce: I'm mostly concerned about moving our library out of downtown.
112
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Steve Pierce: The Building the Commons Committee has assumed that the library, the Senior Center, City Hall, and the Community Center 113
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Steve Pierce: or senior center, I don't know if I repeated that, should be together under one roof.
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Steve Pierce: As far as I know, they have only explored location options with that goal.
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Steve Pierce: One problem with having them all under one roof is that they have very different requirements. The library should be central and easily accessed by students and pedestrians in town.

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Steve Pierce: While the community center, which hosts events with hundreds of people, requires ample and available parking by the event space. These two needs don't lend themselves to being under the same roof.
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Steve Pierce: Whatever happens with the Senior Center and the Community Center and City Hall, I sincerely hope that the library can remain downtown. Thank you.
118
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Steve Pierce: And I'll just follow that up. Oh, no, she has to go to… No, it's still 46 seconds, I got it. So, there's an option that really hasn't been explored yet. We've looked at the O'Reilly space, but there's an option there where we can
119
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Steve Pierce: Rebuild City Hall with two stories. It's currently 4,000 square feet, so that could be 8,000. The current library is 9,400 square feet.
120
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Steve Pierce: The space between the two buildings is 5,000 square feet.

Add those all together, and you can provide the space that the library is saying they need at 22,000 square feet.
121
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Steve Pierce: The ramp could go down to a lower level at the new… 122
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Steve Pierce: City Hall, and a ramp going to the upper level, so it can… we don't have to have an expensive elevator or stairs, it can be accommodated at the existing site. Thank you.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.

Next, I would come back into chambers. Kyle?
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Since you're not going to get answers tonight from any of these council members, any of the city officials about why there isn't a response to the EFOC, I'm going to go ahead and answer it for you.

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: None of these council members are actually representatives that are representing the needs or the interests of the residents of the city of
126
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sebastopol. These council members here are serving the interests of the city employees and city management.

They are under the direction of city attorney, who has advised them for some strange reason to not respond to public comment, to not engage with public comment, and so you will see that pattern happen tonight. We're currently in election cycle, and so, hopefully.
127
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: these candidates that are not currently on this council, that are running, are here tonight in the attendance, either in person or in Zoom, because what they need to understand is that
128
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This issue of not having the interest of the city residents be met by the elected officials has been going on for so long that I don't even think that it is outside of the norm of their thinking any longer. The idea that they will go and represent
129
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: City union, union membership in terms of negotiations, the interests of the city attorney, the recommendations of the city attorney, and never question those 130
00:21:52.010 --> 00:22:11.610
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: those, those recommendations. Never am I hearing council question the recommendations of the city manager. In fact, it's just constant praise for the city manager, despite the decisions that have been made over the last number of years, despite the number of city managers that we've had over the last number of years.

Never am I seeing any sort of
131
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Retroactive action taking place against poor decision-making by our finance director.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: incorrect information that's happening as a result of our finance director, and never am I hearing any questioning that's happening of our city attorney or the recommendations of our city attorney.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This is a huge problem. Kyle, you have 5 seconds. We need electeds that serve our residents and the interests of our residents, and are not just puppets for the city administration. Thank you for your public comment. Next, I will go out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment, to please raise your hand virtually.
134
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, it will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in chambers.
135
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, public comment is closed.
136
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, go ahead. So, I'd like to respond to that last public comment.
137
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is that okay?
138
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and I'm going to be saying this to the speaker, but also to the public, that we cannot dialogue with public commenters because it's not agendized, and that would be a violation of the Brown Act.
139
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, I understand it's frustrating, and it looks like we're not… we don't listen, the residents, but… 140
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:24.639
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We cannot engage in dialogue on your comments.
141
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because it violates the Brown Act.

I mean, I'm just saying it very…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Shortly, right? Can you make a comment, please?
143
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's correct. Excuse me, on items that are not…
144
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Excuse me, of course items that are not…
145
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Four items that are not on the Brown Act, that are not listed on the agenda.
146
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: there cannot be a discussion because the item's not agendized. Council members can make brief comments. For public comments, for agendized items, then, you know, the council can engage with those, comments.
147
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
148
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay to go forward? I just want to make… we're all finished, right? Okay, we are going to go to the consent calendar, but before we do that, I,
149
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I skipped over, I meant to mention, I… I actually do have a conflict with one item that is on the agenda, on the consent calendar, and that's, item number 3, so,
150
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I was just gonna go through the consent calendar, and then I will recuse myself from voting on that one item, so… And it's my understanding I don't need to leave the room if it's not discussed. Correct. We need to pull that item and vote on that separately. Okay, so I'll just… can I read all the items, and then… okay. 151
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Alright, so on the consent calendar…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Number one, approval of City Council meeting minutes for regular Meeting of July 21, 2026. Number two, approval of waiving of second reading and adoption of ordinance to amend Sebastopol Municipal Codes section. Under the City's Municipal Code, the City Manager possesses the authority to appoint, remove. 153
00:25:03.970 --> 00:25:17.539
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Promote and demote any and all officers and employees of the City of Sebastopol, except the City Clerk, City Attorney, and City Treasurer. This amendment changes the requirement to include the City Clerk under the City Manager Hiring Authority 2. 154
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:21.090
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 2.12.100, power of appointment. 155
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Number 3, approval of ordinance authorizing an amendment to the development agreement for the Barlow Hotel to approve a TOT sharing arrangement, section 7.5. Uniform Transient Occupancy Tax Rebate in exchange for all the benefits provided, by this development agreement and the project to the City. 156
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To the city shall rebate a portion of the uniform transient occupancy tax collected from the project. Do I need to read this whole statement?
157
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can I ask real quick? Okay, I just want to be clear. Okay, so number 4, approval of voting delegates and alternates, League of California Cities Annual Conference and Expo, Anaheim, California, September 23 to 24, 25.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 2026. A voting delegate… a voting delegate must be registered for the conference to be a voting delegate.

Mayor McLeus is registered for the conference and will be attending the conference.
159
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Number 5, approval amendment to contract for 8th Way for continuation monitoring of Gravenstein Commons Agenda Item Number 1
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for compliance with HUD and city requirements. So I'm asking if anyone else would like to pull anything. We already have to pull number 3 for my conflict, so if there's anyone else…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Nope.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Alright, so do we have, 163
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Mary, we need to go up for public comment. No, I know, yeah. Do you want to… Yes, thank you. So this is for public comment on the consent calendar items. If you would like to make a public comment, I come into chambers first. Kyle?
164
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I just want to remind everybody that maybe hasn't read the entire consent calendar, what they're about to do tonight is hand over millions of dollars, actually half of the TOT for a new hotel over the next 10 years. They are handing that over to a private owner.
165
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that is money that has… that would go to the city general fund to pay for things, if a council would actually approve, things that would support our community. 166
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But instead, they are allowing a developer, under this kind of political theater claim that they've been strong-armed, that the hotel wouldn't get made if this decision wasn't legit. Instead, they're allowing that developer to take half of all of the TOT over the next 10 years.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and pocket it. And there's this very loose claim that somehow that money's gonna get used for promoting tourism Sebastopol, but yet this council did nothing to solidify what those actual claims would be, what those actual dollars would get spent on doing. Instead, that money is going to go to supporting Agenda Item Number 1
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: maybe businesses in the Barlow, oh yeah, that could be considered tourism. Or the individual hotel, oh yeah, that could be considered as tourism. And there's nothing actually in there that suggests that it's going to go to money, that supports tourism, that it supports all of Sebastopol.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Half of all of the TOT for the next 10 years is going to a private individual, a private company. 170
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: For that one hotel that could get developed.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's what's happening right now. 172
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And there's no response that's gonna happen at this moment. They're just gonna go ahead and approve it, and move on to the general, agenda for the rest of the meeting. There's not gonna be any discussion.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There's not gonna be any concerns that get brought up, there's not gonna be any reiteration of public comment, public concerns about this decision at all. They're just gonna blanketly approve it, unanimously, and move on.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kyle, for your public comment. Next, I will go out to Zoom. Bianca, can you unmute yourself, please?
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Bianca Blomquist: Yes, ma'am, can you hear me?
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can. Can you see the timer? 177
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Bianca Blomquist: Hi, Ken, thank you. Good evening, Mayor and Council Members. I… I do think I support the Barlow Hotel, because Sebastopol, you know, needs more overnight visitors, but I also think it's important Agenda Item Number 1
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to ask, like, what we're buying with this massive public investment. So, like, just a few weeks ago.
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Bianca Blomquist: The developer explained that the project was no longer feasible without rebating half of the city's
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Bianca Blomquist: 12% TOT over 10 years. Under this agreement, the city would rebate roughly $450,000 to $775,000 per year, which is roughly 4-7% of Sebastopol's current general fund.
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Bianca Blomquist: as I understand it, the original development agreement did not include a TOT rebate at all. That provision was introduced later as an amendment, and it still isn't backed up by any apparent 181
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Bianca Blomquist: well, I shouldn't say apparent, but is not justified in writing in any way. It just seems not prudent to throw this in at the 11th hour.
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Bianca Blomquist: Second, has the city considered any safeguards on this, such as a minimum annual TOT guarantee, or perhaps a cap on the total rebate that we actually give to this private developer? Those kinds of provisions help the city protect its finances during times of economic downturn, which I think we all believe we're already in, or about to go in. So when tourism declines, the city is under a great amount 183
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Bianca Blomquist: of pressure. You need to be able to control what you do with those funds.
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Bianca Blomquist: Finally.
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Bianca Blomquist: They also preserve the city's ability to invest in broader economic development priorities. I know that this council has discussed the California Main Street program before as a potential investment. Those are the kinds of programs that I would hope that those dollars would be used
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Bianca Blomquist: For. And finally, if the city is making this public investment, I hope that it actually takes advantage of the data that partnering with this hotel could provide. I would ask you. 187
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Bianca, that's 2 minutes. 188
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Bianca Blomquist: Require you to take more data from the hotel to inform. 189
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you for your public comment. Next, I will come into chambers, if there's anyone in chambers that would like to make a public comment.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to Zoom. Steve, can you unmute yourself, please?
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Steve Pierce: Yes, thank you. It was pretty clear in the last meeting that there were certainly votes for doing negotiation between the developer and the city.
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Steve Pierce: Unfortunately, the city really doesn't have a lot of capacity to figure these things out, and it really depends on the council providing clarity
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Steve Pierce: to both staff and to the Planning Commission. If we really wanted to negotiate, we should have been clear up front, that's what we wanted to do. We should have either told staff.
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Steve Pierce: give us some parameters of negotiation that we can work with Barlow on, or even the Planning Commission. Planning Commission spent about an hour and a half
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Steve Pierce: talking about this subject. And then the city council basically didn't really
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Steve Pierce: bring it up or consider what they had spent an hour and a half talking about and deciding on. So, I hope this is a lesson that we actually take the time to be very clear what we want from both staff and the Planning Commission when it comes to these kind of negotiations with a developer.
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Steve Pierce: We could have easily said we need a threshold for when this money goes to the developer. They said in the Planning Commission, the developer said that if it was only a $350 a night
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Steve Pierce: hotel that they could charge, they would have a very difficult time making this work financially. Probably wouldn't work. 199
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Steve Pierce: So, that should have been a key there. We need a threshold when this kicks in. How about we… certain amount of revenue, then they get their tax rebate. But no, there was interest in it, but you need to be clear from the front.
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Steve Pierce: How do you want to approach a developer? Who does the work? 201
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Steve Pierce: Thank you.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Steve, for your public comment. Next, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in chambers.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing then, I will go back out to Zoom. Kate, can you unmute yourself, please?
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kate: Yes, thank you.
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kate: I just want to echo what Steve Pierce said, which is that there was probably room for negotiation, but the city wasn't clear about that, and 206
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kate: And from a financing standpoint, I'm sure that there's flexibility there on Barney's side, but
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kate: financing opportunities change, especially as enviro… like, the economic environment changes over time. So, if you're going to want to negotiate something, you have to be pretty straightforward about that from the beginning, so that the person that you're negotiating with knows that there could be changes to their proposal.
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kate: Barney's basically going out to private equity people and saying that this is the return he's gonna give, and so he needs to know if the return's based on meeting first the city's benchmarks and whatever would be above and beyond that, which would probably not actually be that, 209
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kate: materially, appealing to finance
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kate: for people who are lending him the money to do the project. So, once again, I just feel that there's something within the city's organization where there's a lot of siloing of information that actually puts the council at a disadvantage a lot of times.
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kate: Because as Steve said, the, you know, the Planning Commission spent a long time talking about this.
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kate: That was, once again, funded by taxpayers. They fund those meetings, so they're paying to have this commission run, but are we necessarily getting the benefit from that because the information's not being integrated into a broader perspective? Thank you. 213
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.

Next, I will come back into Zoom, if there's… I'm sorry, into chambers, if there's anyone in chambers.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will go back out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment on the consent calendar item, to please raise your hand virtually.

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, public comment is closed. All right, thank you very much. So, we're gonna pull item number 3, so do we have a motion for items 1, 2, 4, and 5, or does anyone want to pull an item before we move on?
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other? So moved. Seconded. 217
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. So, so moved by Vice Mayor Maurer and seconded by Councilmember Zolman to approve consent calendar items 1, 2, 4, and 5. Item 3 has been pulled for a separate vote. Councilmember Carter?
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes. Councilmember Hinton? Aye.

Councilmember Zolman? Yes. Vice Mayor Maurer? Yes. Mayor McLewis? Yes.

Motion passes unanimously. Okay. And now, item number 3, if you all want to discuss it, then I'll need to leave the room, so just let me know if you're…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have a simple question. So, Alex, I'll have you guide.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, that's okay. I can stay, is that okay? I'm just looking at the ordinance 1167 that's attached to the, gender report, and…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: One of the things we agreed to was annual reporting of how the TOT was spent on marketing money from the developer. And I do not see that, and it appears it should be in the second to the last paragraph on page 4 of the agenda item. 222
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I know we clearly requested that to have some teeth in this thing, and I'm not seeing it, and I believe it should be part of this ordinance if we're to approve it tonight.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So the… the language that's attached to the ordinance says the city may request, and the payee of the Agenda Item Number 1
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tax shall provide, at least annually, documentation of how the remitted tax funds were spent for such purposes.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So that's an Exhibit A. 225
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can we get rid of the May request? 226
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Z…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So this language was what was read in the motion already in the first reading of the ordinance. 228
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what was read out loud, and that was with the motion that was made at the time. So we'd have to, if we want to make that change, we'd have to reintroduce the ordinance for first reading.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I mean, may request just changes the… doesn't change their obligation.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So the, you know, city will just have to ask for it each year.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And they will have to provide them. 232
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I mean… If… if we have to ask 233
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The mayor leave the room to ask more of this question.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm comfortable with her leaving the room, it's an important decision. Yeah, well, if we are gonna discuss Agenda Item Number 1
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it, the city's policy is to pull it off the agenda and then put it at the end of the…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm gonna pull it. 236
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Alright, so, what we typically do is when we pull it off, then it goes to the end of the agenda, so, that's where we'll… we'll do that.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, so… Alright, let's… 238
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: On here, we have no informational item presentations tonight, no informational items or presentations, no public hearings. We are just going to our regular discussion and action items. The first one, number 6, is discussion and action of ordinance related to newspaper racks, and this is brought
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: By me and our city attorney, so I don't know if you wanna…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Kick it off? Yeah, I can kick it off. Good evening, Council.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, I don't know, a few months ago, the mayor requested a future agenda item about newspaper racks. 242
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And establishing regulations for newspaper racks, and this is the proposed ordinance before you, modeled after a number of cities who have similar ordinances, and it really does, 243
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: three things. One, it establishes location requirements.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It establishes location requirements. So, for example, you know, they can't be within 100 feet of each other, there's a limit of 3 per block.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In downtown, there are, other requirements about separation from driveways and fire hydrants and, 246
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: things like that. So, it establishes those requirements in existing
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Newspaper racks have 6 months to comply with that, because some of them may be in locations that… that violate that right now, so they have 6 months to get into compliance. 248
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The second main element, which would go into effect immediately, are maintenance standards. So, for example, it requires them to be free of graffiti, it requires, you know, the glass or plastic that they have to be free of cracks and not broken. 249
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And to also have posted, contact information for who the owner is on the box, so they can be… 250
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Contacted for… for issues. There's also a permitting requirement for new…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: newspaper racks. This is not a discretionary permit process, and there are very strict deadlines and ordinance for staff to act. It's really just to make sure that the new location meets the requirements of the ordinance.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There's also a requirement that, a provision that a newspaper accident or abandoned for 60 days, can be removed. And then for enforcement of all of these requirements, the ordinance establishes noticing requirements of, you know, before the state takes action, they will notice the owner.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Of the newspaper rack. 254
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They have the right to appeal. 255
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then, you know, if they don't appeal, or, you know, they lose their appeal, then the city could go ahead and take action to remove the box that violates these requirements. 256
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So with that, I'll toss it over to the… And you have pictures too, right, if you need to remind people, or someone does, Mary does. And the reason this came about is, if you recall, when we were considering trash cans, and I was going around photographing the trash cans, and then I noticed those boxes, and that there were so many in disrepair, so I came back to the, 257
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to our…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: public works department in the city and said, what can we do about a lot of these ones that are really in disrepair and need a… they need, you know, they're… clearly, I mean, they're yellow page boxes and a variety of different, boxes that have been there for a very long time, and I was told that we… 259
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They couldn't do any… nothing could be done with them, because we have no process or… no… no process for… as far as how we manage them or how we notify, so…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: they said… I was told that in order for us to be able to take care of that issue, that… that I needed to bring forth something like this, so that's… that's, you know… and then we brought it to you all a few months ago, so I just wanted to remind everyone how this came about. And I did go around, and there are still quite a few. I noticed that some,
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, some of the newspapers who have gone out of…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Business or whatever, have picked up some of their boxes, but there's still quite a few,
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: broken down boxes all over the place, so that's… that's all I have to say, and I know… I believe Mary might have the PowerPoint.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I believe the photos are also attached to the… Oh, they're in the iAgenda item, too, yeah, so, toward the back, so I don't know if anyone has any questions. I've looked at these so many times.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, right downtown, there is a rack of 8 in one.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So is that considered 8 or 1? 268
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's considered 8. Okay, so in that rack of 8, there's a little library.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There's the Community Voice, there's La Prenza, which is Spanish news, and there's the Bohemian. So, were any of these papers reached… did anybody reach out to them to ask them their opinion of removing the wreck?
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No. So were any stakeholders, whether they be realtors or whoever put those there, was anybody reached out to to find out what their opinion is regarding the removal of the rack?
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, who owns that 8… newspaper rack.

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can't say. Nobody knows who owns it. I've looked all over, I don't know. Did Public Works… was Public Works asked who owns that? Because there's also Wall Street, there's, like, a lot of other, like.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: one-off papers that are in there. I think there was, like, a Wall Street Journal someone stuffed in there. I don't know, I have a variety of pictures, so I don't a library, too.

Pardon me? There's a little library… No, I'm aware of that. I was just adding to what you had mentioned. There's more stuff in there than what you mentioned, so… Well, somebody had taken the time to paint it. 274
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, but anyway, so what you're saying is that this ordinance would… Require…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: removal, but if you don't know who owns it, then how would you warn anybody that it was gonna… because my concern is the… is that this is a freedom of press, and this is an outlet for people to, you know, distribute their magazines, and so… 276
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what might be the unintended consequences of removing them without knowing who owns them, or taking something away from the press without even talking to them? We largely don't know who owns many of these, because they've never been required to 277
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: submit that information to the city. So the ordinance does say that where that information hasn't been posted.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: On the webpage that… excuse me, on the…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Where the owner information hasn't been provided to the city knows… is provided by posting it on the news rack itself.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can you explain that a little bit better? So, since we don't have a…
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: address to send the notice to. It is posted on the news rack itself.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: For the owner, who is presumably, you know, putting things in there from time to time, would then see it when it goes to put
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, new newspapers or whatever into the news rack, they would see the posted notice on that. 284
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, do you know how old that one particular rack is that… 8 newspaper racks in one.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay. No, we don't. We asked… I did ask Public Works to research any records for permitting or anything like that, and they do not have
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: any permitting on file for any of the news racks. I did have them go out, though, to check the news racks that are out there, and the information that I received was, that for the location on 280 South Main Street, there's 1, 2, there's 5 of them down there, 3 of them are completely empty.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: three of them do not have any identification on them as to who is owned by them. One is owned by Ed Worktre, there's emails that are on there, homemagazines.com and REReader.com.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So those… we will be reaching out to them if this goes. But there's no permitting that they have on file.

On McKinley Street, it was the same owners.

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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Of the real, rereader.com, thehomemagazines.com. There's also two that are down there that's Open Exchange and Sonoma County Gazette. Of those 6,
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 5 of them were empty. There was only one that had, information in there, or anything in them. 292
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There's, two across the street from North Main Street. One is empty, one is stocked, and the one that is stocked belongs to TheRealEstateBook.com.
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then on Sebastopol Avenue, there's one… that one has a handful of the Bohemian, and then there's one on North Main Street by the West America Bank, and that one also has the Gazette. Those are the ones that they were able to get information on today.
294
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, I mean, part of this was just part of our desire to, have a vibrant downtown, and having all these… there are several of them, I even looked today, that are especially done by the bus stop and everything. They're just full… some of them are, like, all cracked and broken and full of trash, but go ahead. 295
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You mentioned that if we don't know who owns it, we would post it. How much time are we giving them to respond?
296
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I guess it… It's months. No, it's… 297
00:48:24.870 --> 00:48:34.119
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I thought it was, sorry, trying to remember what we said. And are we posting it, like, with a paper that could veins?
298
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Fly away, float away.

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299
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Anyway, that's a question. They have 6 months to come in compliance with it, so that if they go to put their magazines there, they can see, right? Yeah. For the location requirements, they have 10 months to come… excuse me, 6 months to come into compliance.
300
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In the future, if there are violations regarding
301
00:48:58.260 --> 00:49:07.700
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, maintenance standards and things like that, and we send the notes or post the notes that have 10 days. But, so that posting will remain on there for 6 months? 302
00:49:08.530 --> 00:49:09.710
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: See what I mean?
303
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because they might not go there all the time.
304
00:49:13.700 --> 00:49:29.670
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: we're gonna repost, I guess. I can tell you, I have pictures from last fall and now, and there's still some of the same things in there. I was comparing pictures, like, what I was talking about, and some of them. Some of the same things are, like, stuck in the front. Yeah, I just want to know, as part of our 305
00:49:29.930 --> 00:49:33.650
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: this ordinance, we have a posting obligation, right? Yeah, but that is not…
306
00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:37.269
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a requirement, but if the Council wants, we could add that
307
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:48.129
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: we will post on it multiple times over the 6-month period of this is coming. Yeah, I mean, I'd feel more comfortable about that. And then, this is kind of funny question. 308
00:49:48.130 --> 00:50:00.590
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We have a local resident who is, with a newspaper that has a stand right out in front of her yard. Does this ordinance mean she needs to get rid of it? This is only means… this is only downtown.
309
00:50:00.590 --> 00:50:04.189
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It said surrounding areas, I thought. This applies…
310
00:50:04.190 --> 00:50:22.370
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Citywide. Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you meant it's not just downtown. It's in a front yard, though. I know what you're talking about. Yeah, I just was curious. Is that… does this ordinance cover that? This is only in, this is on public right-of-way.

Okay, all right, great. Okay, those were my questions.
311
00:50:24.650 --> 00:50:25.550
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Question.
312
00:50:26.050 --> 00:50:26.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
313
00:50:27.340 --> 00:50:33.279
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, but because that one large, newspaper rack with the 8,
314
00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:47.360
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If we adopt this ordinance, that RAC immediately goes away. It has to, because it doesn't comply with the ordinance. Is that correct? Well, it would have 6 months to… to comply. 315
00:50:47.670 --> 00:51:07.239
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, it's… I mean, since it's 6… it's 8 racks and not 1, it wouldn't… I mean, I can see what you're saying, but you still have to get rid of it. It would have to be removed, and so probably would be the ones over in front of the Fairfield Inn, because those are a certain number, there's 4 or 5 in front of that. 316
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:19.929
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, anyway, could you tell us the locations of all these? Like, where are they? Multiple racks, that's all I'm interested in, is the multiple racks. There's only two of them. 317
00:51:20.530 --> 00:51:21.780
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That I'm aware of.

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318
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The one you said? Fairfield. One in front of the Fairfield Inn. That I've… that I… I mean, I went around all over the place taking pictures. Those are the only two that I recall were those.
319
00:51:33.560 --> 00:51:37.130
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I… I could be wrong, but I mean, I drove all over.
320
00:51:38.010 --> 00:51:39.559
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Taking pictures.
321
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, okay. Any other questions? 322
00:51:46.170 --> 00:51:48.219
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We can go out to public comment. 323
00:51:48.460 --> 00:51:56.930
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So this is for public comment on the news rack ordinance. If you would like to make a public comment, again, I go to Chambers first, and then out to Zoom.

Kyle?
324
00:51:57.180 --> 00:51:58.450
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So…
325
00:51:58.970 --> 00:52:10.710
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: What we're seeing again tonight is a repeated effort by a particular council member to address blight, but under the guise of some of the other actual interests of 326
00:52:10.710 --> 00:52:16.720
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Newspaper rack regulation, which would be about accessibility, about,
327
00:52:16.720 --> 00:52:41.139
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, making sure that these things are not physically harming other people by being in way. And really, I think there's an approach that you could take here, using an amendment to sidewalk regulation, which would be about things like obstruction of sidewalks, right? Like, we haven't even started to talk Agenda Item Number 1
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about the fact that we've got a bunch of A-frames that are regularly out of reg… or out of compliance.
328
00:52:41.140 --> 00:52:51.459
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And there's zero enforcement on Aframe, you know, compliance in the city, but those don't constitute the kind of blight that our mayor is concerned about, which is 329
00:52:51.870 --> 00:53:00.580
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: these newspaper boxes not looking as clean and tidy as she would prefer them to be. And so this is what we have in terms of the ordinance tonight.
330
00:53:00.580 --> 00:53:12.520
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Look at amending the current regulations you have on sidewalk accessibility, and be doing so in a way that maybe makes reference to abandoned property.
331
00:53:12.520 --> 00:53:24.810
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The idea that somehow we're gonna go ahead and regulate to remove a bunch of newspaper racks as the method of getting folks to come into compliance, when you can take another approach to this.
332
00:53:24.810 --> 00:53:42.719
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That would not basically go this blight ordinance route, where we're somehow regulating the appearance of things in our society and community. And really, it should be more about public safety and about impeding, impeding pedestrian traffic or vehicle safety.
333
00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:48.200
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kyle, for your public comment. Next, I'll go out to Zoom. Gabe, can you unmute yourself, please?
334
00:53:49.740 --> 00:53:56.240
kate: Yeah, my only comment is, you know, if it is just abandoned property.
335
00:53:56.340 --> 00:54:13.560
kate: I'm just wondering how much all of this is gonna cost to, like, notice and re-notice and, go back and forth on many of these boxes. I, too, have seen over the last 4 years, and they're completely shot and abandoned.

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336
00:54:13.560 --> 00:54:22.920
kate: And they look like garbage standing on the street. So it's just like, are you, you know, the attorney time, public works time? 337
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:33.839
kate: Trying to contact people that have no contact information listed on their own pieces of property. I'm just wondering if the, you know, 338
00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:51.059
kate: how to make this less costly to the city, which, as we know, is in, you know, extreme financial debt and can't seem to fix the roads and, like, you know, replace the well. I think, maybe getting caught up in the weeds, over the newspaper…
339
00:54:51.180 --> 00:54:51.990
kate: you know.
340
00:54:52.420 --> 00:55:02.480
kate: rack. It almost seems if it's not in use for, like, 3 months, that it should just get picked up and put into the garbage. That's my comment.

Thank you.
341
00:55:02.680 --> 00:55:08.220
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kate, for your public comment. Next, I'll come into Chambers. Thank you.
342
00:55:08.340 --> 00:55:15.670
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I was wondering about the liability, because, as Kate just said, there's a lot of, basically abandoned stuff. This is basically…
343
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:32.290
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: old, what used to be coin-operated newspaper racks from the last century, and a whole bunch of, kind of, plastic boxes that real estate magazines used to be put into, but everybody uses the internet now, obviously. I mean, if I look at the bohemian, I go online, I don't pick up a newspaper.
344
00:55:32.500 --> 00:55:51.259
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But this may be a liability issue, because some of those, abandoned news racks could easily be thrown into the road. I mean, we got… that's a really busy road, and with some of the other stuff that's going on with the unhoused right now, a newspaper rack could do a lot of damage to a car or a truck or something that's going by.

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345
00:55:51.460 --> 00:55:52.670
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So…
346
00:55:52.900 --> 00:56:09.870
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: there's a very compelling reason to know exactly who owns these things if they assist in wanting to, distribute newspapers or whatever in these things, in the event that something bad like that happens, because otherwise the city might be liable if it's abandoned property just lying around.
347
00:56:09.870 --> 00:56:15.309
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I mean, frankly, most of the newspaper racks have got, like, half a burrito in it, and a newspaper from…
348
00:56:15.310 --> 00:56:23.009
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: three years ago, and a whole bunch of other stuff you don't even want to look at. So it's definitely a blight problem. That's my comment.
349
00:56:24.500 --> 00:56:34.770
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.

Next, I will go out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment, to please raise your hand virtually. Seeing none, I will come back into chambers.
350
00:56:37.300 --> 00:56:45.139
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Hi there, Laura from the Sebastopol Times. There are very few print papers left, Maybe just… 351
00:56:45.480 --> 00:57:01.910
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't know, 1 to 3? Has anyone just tried calling them up? They have distribution services, so I suggest that someone in the city just call the Press Democrat, which actually owns La Prensa and a couple of the other papers, and just say, we're considering this…
352
00:57:02.530 --> 00:57:08.469
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: What are your thoughts on it, and how can we fix this? Help us fix this problem?
353
00:57:10.110 --> 00:57:16.719
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.

Next, I'll go out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom to make a public comment, please raise your hand virtually.
354
00:57:16.890 --> 00:57:18.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will come back into chambers.
355
00:57:21.160 --> 00:57:23.750
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
356
00:57:27.780 --> 00:57:41.900
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sorry. Hi. I, liberated this, sorry, I didn't know the police would be here, from the post office, because everybody seems to be moving these away from downtown, and I don't agree with…
357
00:57:42.130 --> 00:57:53.630
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: moving away, their blight wherever they are. This is horrible. There's trash below. This is a two-story.

Nobody wants this.
358
00:57:53.680 --> 00:58:08.909
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And so I did a little survey of downtown, too, me and my dog, and so my question remains, is this news? You keep referring to these as news racks. Is this news? That's my question.
359
00:58:09.500 --> 00:58:13.990
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Would anybody answer that? Is this real estate supplement news?
360
00:58:14.210 --> 00:58:30.049
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: These were the only newspapers I found. I didn't go down your way, sorry. The Bohemian and La Trenza were the only newspapers. I think that row of eight was made by some artists years ago, because I knew one of the people who helped me paint that. 361
00:58:30.490 --> 00:58:37.390
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, I surveyed business owners, 362
00:58:37.490 --> 00:58:52.279
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And between 3 and 4.30 today, and no one knew about this ordinance. And they weren't happy about these Agenda Item Number 1
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racks, and they didn't like them being pushed downtown. And if you look at Whole Foods, that's just a dangerous row of 4 right by a crosswalk. 363
00:58:52.320 --> 00:59:01.259
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Think about having a stroller, a wheelchair, a walker. That's a really dangerous area. There's two by a crosswalk right by the old Rite Aid.
364
00:59:01.960 --> 00:59:20.989
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Which is less than 10 feet now. So they were really happy to exclude these non-news racks from our area. So I really want the definition of news rack to be rewritten, because I don't think that includes those.
365
00:59:21.350 --> 00:59:26.550
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The word ADA is not included in the ordinance. You have 10 seconds?
366
00:59:26.780 --> 00:59:27.600
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, man.
367
00:59:28.360 --> 00:59:31.200
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And there's no evidence for this 100-foot spacing.
368
00:59:31.350 --> 00:59:41.610
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There's nothing that says that. We need objective standards for permits, and that's 2 minutes. Oh, darn.

Thank you for your public comment.
369
00:59:42.630 --> 00:59:44.979
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Next, I'll go out to… 370
00:59:45.260 --> 00:59:51.349
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Zoom, if there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment on this item, to please raise your hand virtually.
371
00:59:52.040 --> 00:59:54.199
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing that, it'll come back into chambers.
372
00:59:55.160 --> 00:59:57.140
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: CNN public comment is closed.

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373
00:59:57.390 --> 01:00:06.860
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, thank you. We're back here at the dais for comments. I, of course, have a few, but I want to let my colleagues go first, if anyone has any?
374
01:00:08.550 --> 01:00:18.269
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No? Oh, Steve? Councilmember Zolan? Yeah, I definitely appreciate all the effort, to try to address 375
01:00:18.650 --> 01:00:27.970
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: situation. For me, it is about the hazardousness of it. I mean, being the liaison to our insurance, I mean. 376
01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:36.379
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They're rough, and all you need is a child to get pushed into, or fall into one of them, then it's gonna be like, who is responsible for
377
01:00:36.490 --> 01:00:49.859
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the overall maintenance or lack of maintenance that contributed to that child's harm. So, that I'm concerned about. This approach and the next agenda item, addressing blight, I have 378
01:00:50.000 --> 01:01:00.699
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a combination of just concerns, whether this is the right approach. And to the public commenter, we are in a state, ongoing state of fiscal emergency, and
379
01:01:00.700 --> 01:01:11.339
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm concerned about the amount of money it's going to take to effectuate this, to monitor it, and I'm also concerned about the person that we always defer to as far as 380
01:01:11.340 --> 01:01:22.169
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: enforcement of these things is our law enforcement, and the discretion that's always given to them. So, for that reason, I'm not supporting this in this… in this form. Thank you. 381
01:01:24.080 --> 01:01:32.680
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can I ask you a question? It's my understanding it's not the police that will be enforcing any of this with these boxes, is that correct?
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This type of ordinance is generally enforced in the city by planning or the building official for this particular ordinance.
383
01:01:40.750 --> 01:01:47.389
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That was my understanding as well.

And as far as the, the definition of news rack, does it include… 384
01:01:48.190 --> 01:01:54.840
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I… it was my understanding when we talked that it did, but… It includes… yeah, the definition of news rack includes any publication.
385
01:01:55.020 --> 01:01:58.920
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Used to distribute any publication.

Okay, go ahead.
386
01:02:00.870 --> 01:02:04.930
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I… I mean, whew.
387
01:02:05.090 --> 01:02:21.259
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I see a ton of them abandoned, and… and yes, having worked in media for quite some time, there is rare… a small group of newspapers, and their distribution does not just rely on these racks, like,
388
01:02:21.950 --> 01:02:38.659
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: like the Bohemian, it relies also on bringing it, because they brought it to my place of business and leaving it for people. So, I think I'm going to be supporting this ordinance tonight, and, I think giving people 6 months' notice, if they need to take apart
389
01:02:38.660 --> 01:02:53.589
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to save a few racks and maintain them of what we are calling the artist racks that are multi. I do seem to remember when people painted those as well, then so be it. But, they need to be maintained, and I'm going to be supporting it tonight. 390
01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:57.280
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, any other comments? 391
01:02:58.220 --> 01:02:58.950
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Nope.

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392
01:02:59.170 --> 01:03:01.880
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I guess I'll make a comment. 393
01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:08.240
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I guess I'm uncomfortable with the fact that the…
394
01:03:08.580 --> 01:03:17.199
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the Bohemian, the Community Voice, La Prenza, they have not been reached out to, and… and I have a feeling that whoever painted that ate
395
01:03:17.860 --> 01:03:28.889
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: newspaper rack thing, and put the little library in there, would be pretty disappointed having that removed, but I also know that,
396
01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:46.310
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: as I walked on one side of the street there, down at Main Street, that there was a realtor, an empty realtor, bright yellow realtor rack, and then right next to it was one, I believe it had a bohemian sticker on it, and it was filled with compost. 397
01:03:46.650 --> 01:03:51.950
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, that, you know, that is a blight. That, that's,
398
01:03:52.420 --> 01:03:56.589
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But at the same time, I have concerns with the cost.
399
01:03:56.960 --> 01:04:15.849
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to monitor this and to be removing things. I mean, I'm wondering if the city couldn't just… if the council couldn't direct the city to remove any of the realtor racks that are empty and, kind of leave the free speech racks open. I don't know. For me, I'm not…
400
01:04:16.800 --> 01:04:25.370
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that's why this item is here, just so you know. I asked them to do that, and I was told we could not unless I brought an ordinance forward, so… So, we could, you know, if… Agenda Item Number 1
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401
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01:04:25.720 --> 01:04:35.739
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't know that this is what the Council wants to do, but we could change it so we only deal with abandoned ones, and not any of the maintenance standards for nonabandoned ones. 402
01:04:35.940 --> 01:04:49.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't know that that stresses all that. It is diff… you know, commercial speech is also protected by the First Amendment. It doesn't have the exact same protections, but it does have protections.
403
01:04:50.180 --> 01:04:53.270
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: As well, and so…
404
01:04:54.060 --> 01:05:03.879
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, we'd have to look into whether we could address just certain types of these news racks. I am concerned that then becomes a content-based
405
01:05:04.060 --> 01:05:09.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Regulation, because we're targeting just certain types of… publication.
406
01:05:09.290 --> 01:05:10.890
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Hinton. 407
01:05:12.720 --> 01:05:28.370
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, again, having worked in this industry, I know that if it's important to them, they will come out within the 6 months and make corrections. So with that, I'm going to move this ordinance and, I think introduce and waive the first reading. 408
01:05:28.620 --> 01:05:36.849
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: of the ordinance to add Chapter

5.66, News RAC regulations to the Sebastopol Municipal Code. 409
01:05:37.050 --> 01:05:38.560
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I'll second that. 410
01:05:41.820 --> 01:05:57.900
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. So moved by Councilmember Hinton, and seconded by Mayor McLewis to approve the introduction and waiving of the first reading of an ordinance to add Agenda Item Number 1
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Chapter 5.66 New Rest Regulations to Spousal Municipal Code. Can we… can we still make a little comment on that motion?
411
01:05:59.610 --> 01:06:02.209
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Rather than… can we still comment on it?
412
01:06:02.730 --> 01:06:03.500
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah.
413
01:06:04.890 --> 01:06:15.420
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think, or do we need to finish? Oh, okay. I just can't support it as it's written, because I think there'll be unintended consequences of that, and
414
01:06:15.940 --> 01:06:17.919
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think it should be modified. 415
01:06:18.240 --> 01:06:22.759
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I'm not willing to modify, I mean, so we already have a second, so…
416
01:06:23.260 --> 01:06:26.280
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We'll just go through the process and see where we land.
417
01:06:28.970 --> 01:06:43.459
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to just make sure there's no more discussion on this before I call the vote. I'm done, yeah. Councilmember Hinton moved, and Mayor McLewis seconded in the motion to approve the introduction and waiving of the first reading of the ordinance to add Chapter 5.66 to the New SAC regulations to the Sebastopol Municipal Code. 418
01:06:43.510 --> 01:06:49.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Carter? Yes.

Councilmember Hinton? Aye. Councilmember Zolman? No.
419
01:06:50.420 --> 01:07:01.480
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Vice Mayor Maurer? No. Mayor McLewis? Yes. The motion is 3 to 1, with Councilmembers Carter, Hinton and Mayor McLewis in support, and Councilmember Zolman and Vice Mayor Maurer in opposition.
420
01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:08.520
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, thank you very much.

We'll get back to here. Just a clarification, that should be 3 to 2. 421
01:07:08.720 --> 01:07:11.089
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah. I'm sorry, you're correct, 3 to 2.
422
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:13.110
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Rated 2.
423
01:07:14.590 --> 01:07:20.280
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can… can I just pause for a second? I…
424
01:07:30.550 --> 01:07:34.119
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's not even good. I just… 425
01:07:39.200 --> 01:07:51.149
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Vice Mayor Maurer, can you take over for a moment? I have an emergency at home that I need to call home about. I'm sorry, my son keeps sending me emergency texts, so if you could just start it, and I'll be right back. I'm not sure… 426
01:08:06.810 --> 01:08:10.439
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Getting my bearings here. Okay, so, 427
01:08:11.840 --> 01:08:21.830
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This is consideration of reimbursement of $350,354 in city attorney budget allocation. Am I on the right one?
428
01:08:22.500 --> 01:08:23.310
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah.
429
01:08:23.500 --> 01:08:43.059
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to the water and sewer enterprise funds. Yeah, Council, I'm just wondering if we should take items out of order. This was the mayor's item, and maybe it makes sense to do the Barlow item now, just the mayor. Maybe we could just take a quick break? That… that works as well. Take a 5-minute break.
430
01:08:43.520 --> 01:08:44.810
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is that okay? Okay.

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431
01:08:49.270 --> 01:08:50.510
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Weird.
432
01:08:51.590 --> 01:08:53.140
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is it okay to start? 433
01:08:54.140 --> 01:08:55.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
434
01:08:55.130 --> 01:09:13.670
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thanks, everyone. Sorry for that break. We're gonna now go to item number 7, Consideration of reimbursement of $350,354 in City Attorney Budget Allocation to the Water and Sewer Enterprise Funds, and I'm the requester of this, and, our city attorney is going to
435
01:09:13.670 --> 01:09:19.790
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, Mayor, I can kick it off and then turn it, back over to you. So, as the Council knows, the… 436
01:09:22.029 --> 01:09:34.229
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: City has a cost allocation plan to reimburse the general fund for the services it provides to the water and sewer enterprise funds.
437
01:09:34.350 --> 01:09:40.119
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, there's a plan, and then it bases allocations off the budgeted amounts.
438
01:09:40.350 --> 01:09:47.069
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And so, in the past, you know, for, past 2 years, they're budgeted based on the budgeted city attorney. 439
01:09:47.310 --> 01:09:54.619
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: amount, and applied through the cost allocation plans. The general fund charged for the enterprise 440
01:09:54.770 --> 01:10:03.329
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: funds for, city attorney time, certain amounts. Those are… those are referenced in the… 441
01:10:03.540 --> 01:10:16.209
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: staff report, the EFOC has identified that this is an overcharge, and the Council has, taken steps to address this by doing some, direct billing in the future. 442
01:10:16.260 --> 01:10:25.260
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And one of the EFOX recommendations was to refund… have the general fund refund the…
443
01:10:25.700 --> 01:10:28.930
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the Sewer and Water Enterprise Funds,
444
01:10:29.080 --> 01:10:36.730
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for this amount, and the amount of, the Water Enterprise Fund would be $130,867.
445
01:10:36.950 --> 01:10:40.240
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The Sewer Enterprise Fund would be $219.
446
01:10:40.490 --> 01:10:43.920
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: $1,487, and…
447
01:10:43.930 --> 01:11:00.540
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And with that, I'll turn it over to the mayor so she can, provide more information. Sure. So, I brought this forward because, for a variety of reasons. The EFOC committee had been recommending this. It seemed to me that it, it…
448
01:11:00.610 --> 01:11:11.139
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: made a lot of sense to me, given all the different… all the background that we have with this. It's an immediately… immediate actionable item that I think that we could take 449
01:11:11.260 --> 01:11:25.419
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Tonight, in addition, it also restores some of the funds, that, you know, are going to be, not missing, but are not, not put into our, you know, with us, freezing the rates and the…
450
01:11:25.420 --> 01:11:38.469
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and dealing with those different things that are going to take away from the fund, I saw this as another way of actually, rightfully reimbursing, the fund, and maybe offsetting some of that, so that it could actually
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451
01:11:38.820 --> 01:11:52.990
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: perhaps, you know, when they're looking at the, I think it says in here about the, you know, when we go out for the loan and everything, it shows that we do have more, funds in there for, repairing the well. So those are just my, my general. 452
01:11:53.010 --> 01:12:08.859
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: thoughts on it and reasonings for bringing it forward. I just think that, you know, the community in general, we've had, obviously, even tonight, you know, more discussion and comments on… on this, water situation and the… all of the different, and the…
453
01:12:09.240 --> 01:12:18.060
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Grand jury report, and to me, this just seemed to be, an item that we could just, you know, in my mind, you know,
454
01:12:18.240 --> 01:12:34.670
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: passing good conscience, and I understand that there may be different opinions about it, but I do believe that we owe it to the community to start looking at all of these different items that were brought forth, and that's why, you know, there were some other ones that I considered, but it's my understanding that, you know, there needs to be,
455
01:12:34.670 --> 01:12:48.870
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: some more analysis, regarding some of the numbers, and I understand that even this number may not be exactly the number, but when I inquired about, well, how do we get to the exact number, you know, and when it was described to me, the different, 456
01:12:49.450 --> 01:13:02.389
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: processes that needed to take place in order for that to happen. I'm like, well, how much would that cost? And by the time we get to that point, have we already expended whatever money we might have… if it is a lower number, we might have expended, you know.
457
01:13:02.450 --> 01:13:14.920
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Beyond that. So, to me, it was just, this is the number that came forward, and when I talked to, you know, the staff and everything, this just seemed like it made the most sense in my mind, so I'm here asking.

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458
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01:13:15.190 --> 01:13:22.739
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, my colleagues here to consider putting this back… reimbursing this back to the Enterprise Fund, so…
459
01:13:23.000 --> 01:13:28.710
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, anyway, that's where I'm at.

It just seems like an easy ask for me, but go ahead, Councilmember Hinton.
460
01:13:29.270 --> 01:13:36.429
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, I just have a question. So, we're just taking 100% of the funds we allocated
461
01:13:36.670 --> 01:13:45.739
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: On the allocation that, of course, consultants told us we should do, back from the city attorney line, and we're putting that
462
01:13:46.120 --> 01:13:49.679
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 100% into… back into the fund. 463
01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:51.840
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And… I'm just…
464
01:13:52.160 --> 01:14:02.790
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm just… there's no way to tell how much time our city attorney spent, because we weren't time tracking during those years. I just want to verify.
465
01:14:03.000 --> 01:14:14.480
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: because probably you spent some time on these funds, but we're just taking those and depositing them in good faith. So, it is not 100%, because there are… we were able to pull out
466
01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:34.400
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the Well4 time, there was a request back in March, for the EFOC for certain billing to find out the exact billing for, items. So, Well4, which is handled by an outside, a separate law firm, we have those invoices, through March of
467
01:14:34.670 --> 01:14:38.710
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: of 2026. So last fiscal year and this fiscal… well…
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468
01:14:39.140 --> 01:14:48.039
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 24, 25, and then 25, 26 through, February. And then, we also went through…
469
01:14:48.200 --> 01:14:53.700
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: My law firm's invoices for 24-25, 470
01:14:53.830 --> 01:15:03.150
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and 25-26 through February, and took out the items that were specifically, you know.
471
01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:09.750
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Tied to water and sewer-related things, you know, 100% to them.
472
01:15:09.870 --> 01:15:16.050
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And so those were part of the number. That's how, using that information that was provided to the EFOC, 473
01:15:16.220 --> 01:15:24.989
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's how they, came up with that amount. I… I am gonna get the exact number wrong here, but the… 474
01:15:25.190 --> 01:15:31.949
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's probably, $20,000 off of what the full allocation was.
475
01:15:32.050 --> 01:15:45.329
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So we're… this would be refunding them less that $20,000. You took the big things that you could justify out, and all the little stuff that now we're probably accounting for with time tracking.
476
01:15:45.600 --> 01:16:05.219
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, yeah, so some of that stuff we're, tracking for… Like, my time, we are time tracking now for most of those things individually. The City Council, as you know, has a separate labor and personnel attorney. None of that time is being recovered right now.
477
01:16:05.430 --> 01:16:08.030
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So let me just ask one question.

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478
01:16:08.330 --> 01:16:10.639
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We're on this agenda item right now.
479
01:16:11.310 --> 01:16:23.909
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: your time tracking right now, but in these years, we are not able to capture this kind of level of detail of time tracking, so you just grab the big things, is my understanding, right? Correct. Okay, thanks.
480
01:16:25.220 --> 01:16:34.290
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And it was my understanding, like, some of the overhead, right? Isn't that how you describe it, Mary? Is that… or someone who's… I don't know if it was Alex or Mary that just… 481
01:16:34.740 --> 01:16:35.719
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
482
01:16:36.750 --> 01:16:52.850
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think what you're referring to is indirect charges. Yeah, I'm sorry, yes, that's… So yeah, we would… without having the detailed time tracking, we would not… and the cost allocation, we would not be able to have those, what those numbers are, so… Right. We agree this is the best option moving forward. Yeah, yeah, and…
483
01:16:53.170 --> 01:17:01.139
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Did anyone else go ahead, Councilmember Mao? I mean, Vice Mayor Mao. So, just to be clear, what you're saying is you're forgiving any indirect cost.
484
01:17:03.920 --> 01:17:17.649
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That is correct. What you're seeing is going back is what was part of the cost allocation, and part of that was indirect cost, so this is… we were funding everything as requested by the EFOC, and we will… we agreed that the numbers are pretty similar.

Okay.
485
01:17:17.760 --> 01:17:25.080
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I have a couple questions. How will this, deficit affect our reserve percentage?
486
01:17:32.070 --> 01:17:44.379
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It would take it out of reserve, and it would reduce your reserve by $350,354. I understand, but… so how will it affect the reserve percentage? Oh, I don't have that number. 487
01:17:44.850 --> 01:17:47.070
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: What, what is our percentage right now?
488
01:17:51.820 --> 01:17:57.359
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thanks, isn't it 25? Yeah, yeah, you miss it. So we'll still be over 20.
489
01:17:57.840 --> 01:18:08.960
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you will be over… you will still be over 20. Over 20. Can you do the math for us? Is that in one year, if we pull it all one year, or what would it be if we did the two-year option? 490
01:18:14.430 --> 01:18:21.700
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And just to answer the earlier question, I think that Amount total is $23,501.
491
01:18:22.060 --> 01:18:32.790
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, it's 100% of the allocation is being refunded, minus the $23,501. That accounts for those… those large items we discussed.
492
01:18:36.300 --> 01:18:49.330
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, prior to the 350, the, reserve percentage is 26.6. Okay. And when we include this, it'll go down to 24 even.
493
01:18:49.340 --> 01:19:00.659
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 24 even, okay. So, a couple questions. Can the total amount be given just to the water fund? 494
01:19:01.440 --> 01:19:02.730
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's just a question. 495
01:19:05.920 --> 01:19:21.629
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So you are not re… the general fund can make a contribution to either fund if it wants to, but you're not refunding an amount if you're giving it not back to the… each fund in the amounts it was allocated in the first place. Okay.

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496
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01:19:21.870 --> 01:19:33.040
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, also, my other question is, so this issue does not address the…
497
01:19:34.270 --> 01:19:46.099
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the allocation, the cost allocation for the Council's time. Excuse me. And that's not something we can discuss right now, because that wasn't specifically agendized, is that correct?
498
01:19:47.460 --> 01:19:54.199
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's correct. Okay. Because we can certainly, if the Council wants as a future agenda item, bring that forward. Okay.
499
01:19:54.470 --> 01:20:04.449
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then lastly, I would like to hear from Councilmember Phil Garter, because he's on the EFOC committee.

I'd just like to hear his perspective. Thank you.
500
01:20:06.790 --> 01:20:16.890
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This is one of the more accurate and attainable numbers to give back, and we have to remember that this is going back… it's still city monies, but it's going into, money… 501
01:20:17.070 --> 01:20:25.599
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That was originally from the ratepayers, so it's going into infrastructure and helping our city where it's needed, so it's…
502
01:20:25.860 --> 01:20:27.230
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: A great… a good thing. 503
01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:30.870
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other?
504
01:20:32.010 --> 01:20:34.239
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, we'll go out to public comment then.
505
01:20:35.200 --> 01:20:50.239
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So, this is for public comment for the consideration of the return of the cost allocation to the Water Sewer Enterprise for City Attorney budget allocation in the Agenda Item Number 1
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amount of $350,000. I will do Chambers first. Kyle? So, let's do this really quick, because he's time tracking, and…
506
01:20:50.240 --> 01:20:59.200
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what I'm hearing also is that there's interest in having more discussion about reimbursement as a result of misallocation.
507
01:20:59.300 --> 01:21:22.800
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I would hope that Council can give better direction to staff on the development of agenda items that would allow for broader discussion, and not letting your city attorney hamstring you from having deeper conversations about the reimbursement of misallocated funds that are closer to the tune of $5.5 million. Just thinking about Alex's misallocation.
508
01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:29.300
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We're talking about $350,000 of misallocated funds.
509
01:21:29.480 --> 01:21:42.930
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To which 20-something thousand dollars was the actual cost, minus some other indirect charges, what have you. Massive amounts of money that you're talking about that were misallocated.
510
01:21:42.930 --> 01:21:57.489
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that is not even money we should be considering about some reserves, because it was never your reserve money to begin with. So why question about the reserve money? Because it wasn't yours. You took it incorrectly.
511
01:21:57.670 --> 01:22:15.659
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you're doing the right thing by giving it back, and we know he's been tracking time, and we know that it's a simple thing for him to do, and I would love to hear how far we are away from actually tracking the time that you indicated would happen. 512
01:22:15.660 --> 01:22:40.540
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But that Mary tried to push back out in another 6 months, and that you reworded your agenda item to say, we will consider time tracking, we will investigate time tracking, and you didn't say that you would do time tracking. So I would expect that since time tracking for Alex is part of the agendized item, that there is a open discussion that could be had about time tracking more generally.

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513
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01:22:40.540 --> 01:22:46.610
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: generally, that would be in the scope of this agenda item, and if your attorney says otherwise, ignore him.
514
01:22:46.610 --> 01:22:48.060
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just ignore him!
515
01:22:48.780 --> 01:22:53.640
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kyle, for your public comments. Next, I will go out to Zoom. Kate, can you mute yourself, please?
516
01:22:54.870 --> 01:22:56.080
kate: Thank you, Mary.
517
01:22:56.470 --> 01:22:58.199
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, can you see the timer still?
518
01:22:58.200 --> 01:22:59.140
kate: Yes, I can.
519
01:22:59.140 --> 01:23:00.309
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Great, go ahead, please. 520
01:23:00.310 --> 01:23:24.570
kate: I thank the Mayor for bringing this forward and support the restitution of the $350… $354 and the legal's attorney's fees. Once again, this is necessary because it is illegal to charge the enterprise funds for fees that you do not have invoices for. If Alex cannot produce invoices, then the enterprise funds should not be charged. 521
01:23:24.570 --> 01:23:47.350
kate: Alex bills by 6-minute increments. There are invoices. They just do not amount to what was charged to ratepayers. Consultants do not have overhead paid by the cities. Consultants include their overhead in their rates, which is why they are never in the cost allocation plan. To Councilmember Hinton.
522
01:23:47.350 --> 01:23:52.760
kate: Ratepayers should not pay for legal time, such as tonight, spent 523
01:23:52.760 --> 01:24:17.690
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kate: on the city defending itself against its own illegal behavior. The reserves, as Kyle said, that the city's has belong to the ratepayers, as your reserves are based on the fact that the city has illegally been taking money from people who've been paying their water bills in good faith for over 20 years. This action is not enough to offset the loss 524
01:24:17.690 --> 01:24:42.240
kate: of revenue produced by the Council's July 7th decision to freeze water rates and remove tiers. Once again, I am submitting for Council, and for the public, the rate freeze analysis, which the City and Council have not responded to, even though it outlies the fiscal impact of the Council's decision on the Water Fund and its ability to fund infrastructure.
525
01:24:42.240 --> 01:25:02.809
kate: If you don't respond to my document, you should have your financial person, Ana, produce a document, and you should also give a public presentation that shows what this impact will have on the city's ability to finance well for and the Pleasant Hill Loop. Thank you. 526
01:25:03.640 --> 01:25:15.469
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kate, for your public comment. Next, I'll come into Chambers. I'm on the Enterprise Oversight Committee, but this is me speaking personally. I think this is a really good step in the right direction. I mean, it's the first step, I think. 527
01:25:15.700 --> 01:25:34.399
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Carter articulated very well where we are on this. I mean, we're reallocating ratepayer money to the right place. It's a first step in the right direction, in my opinion. We've finally got the time tracking going, and hopefully we can pick up some momentum and get things moving.
528
01:25:34.430 --> 01:25:52.610
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: with the bigger numbers and so on in the future. But, I mean, I just wanted to say as well that a lot of this has come about from past city, managers and past councils not actually managing things properly. So, I mean, there are some sort of green shoots with this current council, and hopefully the next one as well.
529
01:25:52.720 --> 01:25:59.230
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That, that the council and the city management will be more responsible. Thank you.
530
01:25:59.870 --> 01:26:07.890
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Oliver, for your public comment. Next, I will go out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment, to please raise your hand virtually. 531
01:26:08.320 --> 01:26:17.880
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will come back into chambers if there's anyone in chambers. Seeing none, public comment is closed. All right, thank you. We're back at the dais for comments. Go ahead, Councilmember Zolman.
532
01:26:18.160 --> 01:26:36.510
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: First, I just want to thank the Mayor, for bringing this forward, and to the public, I just apologize that it's taken us this long to even get to this, but I'm fully in support of this. As I stated to our consultant, we need to start making amends, and we need to make amends as quickly as possible. So even if this does affect
533
01:26:36.510 --> 01:26:42.449
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the general fund, the reserves, whatever. We need to start doing what's right, and acknowledging the fact that
534
01:26:42.720 --> 01:26:58.359
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it's probably true, past councils probably did defer to staff, you know? Like, why shouldn't we? I mean, this is the major issue. We're not experts in this. We pay staff to deliver the best advice that they can, and then
535
01:26:58.730 --> 01:27:08.820
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: we try to do the best that we can with this, and clearly that's what happened with prior councils. And so, now we know better, we should do better, so I'm fully in support of this. 536
01:27:10.990 --> 01:27:11.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
537
01:27:16.130 --> 01:27:34.509
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I'm lucky enough to have, like, a little bit of a background in this, and so I kind of understand. But I also kind of want to defend our current staff, and the illegality of what's kind of happening is really kind of a function of, like, how our cost allocation plan was
538
01:27:34.660 --> 01:27:50.410
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: formed and done in the past couple of years. He does time track in small increments, and we can use that, but the consultant that we had a few years ago made this choice. 539
01:27:50.530 --> 01:27:58.100
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And recommended it, and you know, we were following that, which has… You know, it's… it's… 540
01:27:58.110 --> 01:28:16.529
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it's substantiated in ways, but it's not necessarily the right cost allocation, you know, plan, and that's why we're reviewing it and looking it over. But I just kind of want to defend staff just a little bit, because it wasn't, like, a choice to overbuild bill,
541
01:28:17.040 --> 01:28:25.769
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The enterprise funds, it was a function of the cost allocation plan that we all adopted a few years ago. 542
01:28:26.830 --> 01:28:29.330
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, any other comments? 543
01:28:30.360 --> 01:28:46.979
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, I just wanted to say there were a few other items. I mean, I'm obviously fully supportive of this.

There were a few other items I wanted to bring forward, but I was informed that it would be a better one, you know, as we do this time tracking, and have a better… and can do a look back or whatever, that we could have a clearer picture for some other
544
01:28:47.180 --> 01:28:51.900
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: items that have been brought forth.

So, at any rate, I just want to make a motion,
545
01:28:52.250 --> 01:28:56.719
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To… let's see, what exactly is the wording here for it?
546
01:28:57.830 --> 01:29:12.329
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: make a motion to authorize the reimbursement of City Attorney budget allocation to the Enterprise Funds as follows, Water Enterprise Fund, $130,867, and the Sewer Enterprise Fund, $219.40.
547
01:29:12.330 --> 01:29:20.209
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: $219,487. What else do you need me to include in there to…
548
01:29:20.840 --> 01:29:36.729
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You'll need to approve the budget amendment to transfer the $350,000,354 to the General Fund, and then directing staff to continue the… Broader review of the… broader review of the Enterprise Fund Oversight Committee recommendations, such as EFOC recommendations.
549
01:29:36.730 --> 01:29:49.189
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Related to the City Manager Department budget due to the vacancy of the position. This should be reviewed once the city audit has been completed for the fiscal year 25-26 budget for the actual cost, and should be returned to Council for review. 550
01:29:49.340 --> 01:29:51.160
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Second. Second.
551
01:29:52.540 --> 01:29:56.580
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, so moved by Mayor McLewis and seconded by Councilmember Carter.
552
01:29:56.620 --> 01:30:03.710
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to allocate the water price fund… cost allocation for the City Attorney back to the water enterprise fund of $130…
553
01:30:03.710 --> 01:30:27.369
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: $30,867, and to the Sewer Enterprise Fund 219.47, approving the budget amendment to transfer those funds of $350,354 from the General Fund Reserves to the Water and Sewer Enterprise Funds as allocated, and directing staff to continue review of the Enterprise Fund Committee EFOC recommendations, such as the recommendations related to the City Manager Department budget due to the vacancy of this position.
554
01:30:29.070 --> 01:30:31.540
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Carter? Yes. 555
01:30:32.950 --> 01:30:34.859
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Hinton? Aye. 556
01:30:35.260 --> 01:30:37.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Zolman? Yes.

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557
01:30:37.180 --> 01:30:42.910
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Vice Mayor Maurer? Yes. Mayor McLewis? Yes. Motion passes unanimously.
558
01:30:43.480 --> 01:30:45.720
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Alright, thank you very much. 559
01:30:46.400 --> 01:30:49.310
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you to my colleagues, appreciate it.
560
01:30:49.350 --> 01:30:56.019
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Let's see, number 8. Introduction and waiving a first reading of an ordinance amending
561
01:30:56.020 --> 01:31:20.999
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sebastopol Municipal Code Chapter

12.24, Obstruction of Straits, sidewalks, or public places to add provisions prohibiting sitting or lying on the public sidewalk during certain hours. And did you want to speak to this first, Alex, and the, you know, the background, and where this came from, and yeah. So this came, thank you, Mayor, and excuse me, I… We all have frogs in our throats.
562
01:31:21.000 --> 01:31:27.050
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: beginning of the muting and when I start talking. But, the ordinance,
563
01:31:27.670 --> 01:31:33.240
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This came forward from a request for a future agenda item from the mayor,
564
01:31:33.810 --> 01:31:39.060
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Probably 6 months ago or so, or a while ago, to address,
565
01:31:40.320 --> 01:31:48.410
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, this type of conduct in city spaces. And what the proposed ordinance would do would prohibit 566
01:31:48.410 --> 01:32:07.089
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: sitting or lying on city sidewalks during daylight hours. It doesn't apply to any of the city's parks, just Agenda Item Number 1
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the sidewalk. And part of that reason is, you know, there are existing rules on blocking the sidewalk under state law and our ordinance. 567
01:32:07.130 --> 01:32:24.210
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But, you know, even if, someone isn't physically blocking 100% of the path of travel, you know, they still may dissuade people from using the sidewalk if someone's sitting or lying on it. So, this prohibits,
568
01:32:24.690 --> 01:32:32.290
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: sitting down or lying on the sidewalk during daytime hours, there are some exceptions. You know, it doesn't apply if you're…
569
01:32:33.490 --> 01:32:51.919
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: having a medical emergency, if you're using, you know, a wheelchair, that doesn't count as sitting on the sidewalk. If you're operating, like, something that has been issued, the permit, you know, some sort of commercial activity that's been issued a permit from the city.
570
01:32:53.500 --> 01:33:02.659
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Using a bench, or a seat that's provided as part of a commercial business that has a permit, or a public bench,
571
01:33:02.890 --> 01:33:10.149
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and a few other ones that are in there. The ordinance requires that a warning be issued before there can be any,
572
01:33:10.780 --> 01:33:27.010
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: enforcement. And, with that, I'll turn it back over to… And where did this… but… and… and this… didn't it originate from San Francisco? Yeah, San Francisco has… a number… a few other cities have… have similar ones that,
573
01:33:27.690 --> 01:33:37.030
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a map, they may only apply in certain neighborhoods, but there are other states that have very similar ordinances to list, including San Francisco's that apply citywide. 574
01:33:38.580 --> 01:33:50.990
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, you know, there was a period of time where San Francisco's ordinance was subject to an injunction, but that was later removed following, you know, Supreme Court decisions.

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575
01:33:51.550 --> 01:33:53.450
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, and…
576
01:33:54.480 --> 01:34:08.800
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the reason I brought this forward is, and I consulted with our police chief about this, and I'm gonna have him come up too, but the reason I brought this forward is just a couple things. One.
577
01:34:09.300 --> 01:34:14.780
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: businesses downtown frequently in the mornings.
578
01:34:15.210 --> 01:34:20.269
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: when they come to their businesses, and I'm telling this from firsthand from them, you know. 579
01:34:20.270 --> 01:34:38.630
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: calling… I hear… I hear it on the scanner, calling into the police that they have someone… a coffee shop downtown, you know, just a couple days ago, whatever. They're calling and saying, we have someone that's laying in front of our business, and we can't… they won't leave, and we can't open the doors. And… and I hear these things on the scanner quite a bit.
580
01:34:38.630 --> 01:34:43.720
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I've witnessed it myself at my own business, them sleeping on the stoop, and you know, and then… 581
01:34:43.720 --> 01:35:01.570
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, it's just this whole thing, this whole process of… you can't get anybody to leave, and so I came to the police chief and asked him, like, what options do we have? What do we do? I mean, we're trying to help our businesses. I mean, it's not… it's, you know, on all of our priorities and trying to, you know. 582
01:35:01.870 --> 01:35:20.269
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for economic development and supporting our businesses, but if we don't have any ways for our police to actually help people move along when they've decided to, you know, to sleep or lie right in front of the businesses on their sidewalks, this is what came up. So, this is, and then I spoke with,
583
01:35:20.290 --> 01:35:26.170
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: with Alex, our city attorney, about it, and like, what are the options? You know, has this been vetted in other places? Has…
584
01:35:26.170 --> 01:35:44.260
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Has it brought on lawsuits, you know, and all that, and all of that has pretty much happened in other places, so I don't know if our police chief would like to come up at all, if there's anything that you want to say, as far as the calls that you're getting, but I mean, I can just speak anecdotally from just the things that I've heard and that I've seen myself.
585
01:35:51.520 --> 01:35:56.320
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't have any, actual data that… I could…
586
01:35:57.100 --> 01:36:05.319
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: provide to you that specifically addresses a sitting or a lying? Because we'd have to search by an actual search word in our database.
587
01:36:05.760 --> 01:36:12.370
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So that would require the person calling us to specifically mention sitting or lying, and for the dispatcher to actually
588
01:36:12.510 --> 01:36:18.540
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, verbatim type that word into our ad system. So there's…
589
01:36:18.920 --> 01:36:25.439
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Incidents there that we'll have sitting on line causing the problem, but they're not actually captured because they weren't written down.
590
01:36:25.580 --> 01:36:29.369
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Specifically, in the information that was put out to officers.
591
01:36:29.870 --> 01:36:42.189
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But from a public safety perspective, I just see this as a tool that can assist officers in addressing behaviours that impact public safety, and the community's ability to use those public spaces.

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592
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01:36:44.910 --> 01:36:58.599
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: as Alex suggested, if this were to be approved by Council, we would begin with warnings, and we do that for pretty much everything anyway. We prefer to seek voluntary compliance than enforcement options.
593
01:36:59.220 --> 01:37:02.859
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I'd like to certainly make that known to the Council.
594
01:37:03.740 --> 01:37:08.370
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The department would maintain, you know, our ability to
595
01:37:08.540 --> 01:37:12.200
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Treat every individual with dignity and respect, regardless of
596
01:37:12.520 --> 01:37:15.020
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Whether they are transient or other.
597
01:37:15.870 --> 01:37:23.740
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think any… Any success of something like this?
598
01:37:23.930 --> 01:37:43.850
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: if it was approved by Council, would be measured by increased use of public spaces, fewer calls for service, and reduced unlawful activity, and improved perceptions of safety, which is a huge factor, I think, in the development of this ordinance, or suggested ordinance, because we want people to want to use our public spaces
599
01:37:44.010 --> 01:38:03.749
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to want to walk down the sidewalk and visit our businesses, and as the Mayor suggested, if there's someone laying across the door of a coffee shop, I know my family would walk right past that. So, from my perspective as the police chief, and wanting the very best for our citizens and our community and our businesses, I could see this being an advantageous move by the council. 600
01:38:04.200 --> 01:38:06.380
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't know if you have any questions that I can help you with?
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601
01:38:07.520 --> 01:38:08.420
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
602
01:38:09.370 --> 01:38:16.710
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I'm not… I'm not sure you can answer this, but, how many times have you come across someone 603
01:38:17.560 --> 01:38:23.540
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Lying or sitting in a business or on a public sidewalk.
604
01:38:23.960 --> 01:38:27.020
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This year? How many times has happened?
605
01:38:27.820 --> 01:38:29.870
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can say I've personally dealt with
606
01:38:30.150 --> 01:38:34.620
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: quite a number of them, but I don't have any data that I can show
607
01:38:35.760 --> 01:38:50.759
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the council, where that is a specific mention in the call, which is really the data I'd like to be able to provide you, is, you know, that exact feature of the call. But I know for a fact I've personally attended quite a number of incidents like that. I know our officers do as well.
608
01:38:50.910 --> 01:38:58.110
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, could you describe the situation? For example, You have certain…
609
01:38:58.260 --> 01:39:16.059
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: laws right now that can tell you what you can and cannot do. So this ordinance is trying to give you a little bit more power to do something else, but I don't know what you can do now compared to what this ordinance is trying to give you to do. So could you explain that for me?
610
01:39:16.460 --> 01:39:23.390
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I think this just tightens up the availability of enforcement options for us, where rather than us Agenda Item Number 1
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611
01:39:24.020 --> 01:39:39.169
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: having more of a grey area on what we can do with it, we can really come in and actually have that conversation with a person and say, you need to move. We'd like you to vacate the front of this business so they can open and commit serving their patrons, rather than
612
01:39:39.530 --> 01:39:42.999
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Just having words of encouragement that are not followed through.
613
01:39:43.190 --> 01:39:56.750
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If that makes sense. Could you break it down for me? Like, right now, if you're, you know, let's say it was earlier in the day, and there was somebody laying in this… in the front of a store business, how would you deal with that situation now? 614
01:39:57.640 --> 01:40:02.279
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We really have to look at the state law to see if the elements of that particular
615
01:40:02.560 --> 01:40:03.999
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Penal code omit.
616
01:40:04.200 --> 01:40:10.140
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In each individual circumstance, which we do for anything that we… we respond to. We can't just blanket 617
01:40:10.230 --> 01:40:25.459
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you're laying down, you need to move. So in that particular instance, we'd have to look at the penal code and see if what they're doing is a violation of the penal code. Of course, we start with words of encouragement, say, hey, come on, you know, people would like to open their business, could you please move, maybe lie somewhere different?
618
01:40:25.760 --> 01:40:32.400
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that's what we would seek in respect to voluntary compliance, but…
619
01:40:32.810 --> 01:40:35.209
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This would enable us to have Agenda Item Number 1
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620
Agenda Item Number 1
01:40:35.770 --> 01:40:39.820
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: A guaranteed discussion with the person that what you are doing is unlawful.
621
01:40:40.090 --> 01:40:42.520
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I… we really need you to move. 622
01:40:43.710 --> 01:41:01.450
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, is it possible there could be some unintended consequences of this? For example, there were two teenage girls sitting over at City Hall, and they were on their cell phones, and they're just, you know, they're sitting there, and let's just pretend, for example, they might have been right downtown.
623
01:41:01.480 --> 01:41:05.800
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: on, you know, sitting in front of the store, on their cell phones. So.
624
01:41:06.120 --> 01:41:10.140
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If you, like, didn't tell them to move.
625
01:41:10.740 --> 01:41:20.299
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: One day, just say… because, you know, they probably weren't hurt anything, but if somebody else is lying on the street, then maybe you might… or lying on the same area. 626
01:41:20.400 --> 01:41:40.160
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And you might address that. So, couldn't that potentially set us up for lawsuit if there was discrimination? And let me just give you one more example. In my block, we have block parties, and we sit on the sidewalk, we sit on the street, we sit, you know, people sit on the curb. So, if this ordinance passes, all of that would be illegal.
627
01:41:41.110 --> 01:41:44.979
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To sit… to use the sidewalk, which is a public…
628
01:41:45.310 --> 01:41:51.399
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: property for everybody. I mean, to me, it just seems like there's unintended consequences. 629
01:41:52.400 --> 01:41:54.420
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I mean, I see what you're saying, Agenda Item Number 1
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630
01:41:54.590 --> 01:42:02.920
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In any law, there's… there's a possibility of that. If… if there's not a fair and equitable delivery of… 631
01:42:03.320 --> 01:42:10.070
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any discretion or enforcement action that's supplied by public safety agencies, so…
632
01:42:10.450 --> 01:42:14.800
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's all I can speak to with that, is I think that can be applied to anything. Thank you. 633
01:42:16.200 --> 01:42:17.030
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Pounce.
634
01:42:18.010 --> 01:42:19.950
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Hinton's had her hand up.
635
01:42:21.110 --> 01:42:22.830
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thanks.
636
01:42:24.570 --> 01:42:38.460
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, so the way I read… well, I have big concerns about targeting particular groups, and I guess that goes to what Councilmember Marrow was saying. But also, as I read the agenda report, it says…
637
01:42:40.040 --> 01:42:54.780
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: no citation will be issued unless the individual's been warned. Okay, so I assume you warn somebody, it goes into your system. Then all of a sudden, they get a fine between $100 and $500. And…
638
01:42:55.420 --> 01:43:10.610
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're a teenager on a cell phone, or if you're a homeless person, now we're finding people, and these are punishable by community service, up to 10 days in jail, and
639
01:43:10.830 --> 01:43:15.190
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It would seem like we'd be finding kind of the same people, so I just…
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640
01:43:15.420 --> 01:43:24.909
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: think that that does line us up for targeting, possibly, same group, and maybe I should be asking this to the attorney, because,
641
01:43:25.470 --> 01:43:44.319
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: same group is out there laying on the sidewalks that's homeless, and does that line us up? I mean, what… because I'm… I'm really concerned about this. So, enforcing ordinances differently, you know, based on someone's protected class, you know, certainly could be.
642
01:43:45.540 --> 01:43:57.780
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, there… there could be justification for why people are being treated different, right? The location of where this is happening could matter, right? You might be less concerned about someone sitting on a sidewalk
643
01:43:57.870 --> 01:44:16.909
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: in a, neighborhood. Because less people are using that sidewalk, and so, you know, police are using their discretion not to enforce in that situation. Certainly, it could be a problem if they're two different people in the exact same circumstances are being treated differently.
644
01:44:18.880 --> 01:44:24.500
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But, you know, the police department uses its discretion to inform… you know, sometimes you get a… 645
01:44:24.640 --> 01:44:30.660
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Warning when you get pulled over for speeding, and sometimes you get a ticket, and those should not be reflecting
646
01:44:31.650 --> 01:44:40.309
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that should be reflecting appropriate discretion and not treating people different because of a protected class characteristic.
647
01:44:42.350 --> 01:44:47.539
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think you're annexed, and then… Bonsai? Yeah,
648
01:44:48.130 --> 01:45:04.930
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Same concerns, unattended consequences, selective enforcement. To try to deal with this and do my homework, I did send Alex an email. In addition to selective enforcement, I'm very concerned, similar to my comments about the
649
01:45:05.570 --> 01:45:12.110
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Newspaper, newspaper boxes, the implications for free speech and assembly.
650
01:45:12.550 --> 01:45:37.520
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I specifically asked him the question, and Alex, you can tell me if I'm not reading this right. It says, your response was, the ordinance does not have a blanket exception for acts of protest to civil disobedience. Although the ordinance does not apply to someone standing on a sidewalk while protesting, an individual lying on sidewalks in an act of civil disobedience could be punished under the law. Does that sound right? Okay, further, I ask, is it… is this going to be another thing
651
01:45:37.520 --> 01:45:55.640
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: where we just give more money to police, and police are going to solve all of our problems. They would be the responsible enforcing agency, correct? That's correct. And similar to what you just identified, this is going to be solely within their discretion, similar to whether it's young girls on a cell phone or somebody who looks like they need a shower.
652
01:45:55.640 --> 01:45:56.360
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right?
653
01:45:56.420 --> 01:46:02.310
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, so I just want to make sure that I'm clear, ask the questions, put that out for the public. Thanks. 654
01:46:03.180 --> 01:46:04.650
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Carter? 655
01:46:07.760 --> 01:46:20.870
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I'm wondering what kind of guardrails could be around this? Like, is this in a specific area? Must it be in front… I mean, could it be just only in front of businesses, or something like that? Because, you know.
656
01:46:20.880 --> 01:46:39.639
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: People do have a right to be in public spaces, but there is a problem when it interferes with businesses.

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Certainly the Council, if that's the direction from the Council, could limit where this ordinance applies, whether it's just downtown or some other more specific area.
657
01:46:39.640 --> 01:46:47.479
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's up to the council. And I will say, the spirit of this is, I don't know about you all, but I'm downtown at, like, 10, 10.30 at night, often.
658
01:46:48.500 --> 01:46:51.129
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, you know, there are people that are…
659
01:46:51.250 --> 01:47:04.350
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: on the sidewalks, laying across them, and in the mornings. I mean, I don't know how… because I live downtown, so it's a little different than if you're not downtown, so I'm always walking around downtown, and I can tell you frequently. 660
01:47:04.510 --> 01:47:18.600
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't want to name their names, because I even know the transients' names, who, you know, all the different people who live on our streets, and that they're literally laying in front of businesses, you know, so, I mean, that's the spirit of this, and that's why
661
01:47:18.600 --> 01:47:38.219
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just believe that, you know, we've prioritized public safety, we've prioritized, you know, a vibrant downtown, and all these things, and I recognize that there can be unintended consequences, and I don't have all the data, but in my research, I mean, San Francisco has had great success with this, with the businesses, and the businesses have been great, you know, so… 662
01:47:38.230 --> 01:47:46.260
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just… the spirit of it is just, you know, acknowledging, you know, a challenge that we have, and if you're not aware of it, I…
663
01:47:46.400 --> 01:48:05.150
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I, I, you know, I ask you to start coming downtown about, you know, different hours, when you can see where people take up, the space and lay across the sidewalks, because I see it all the time. So, and then I've heard, you know, and then again, the businesses, are dealing with it. So, anyway, that was the spirit of it.

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664
Agenda Item Number 1
01:48:05.580 --> 01:48:09.960
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Not to be, you know, not to be, 665
01:48:10.210 --> 01:48:26.170
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: punishing someone who's doing civil disobedience or anything like that, but it's… it's our job to balance the pros and cons of all of that, in my opinion. And in my opinion right now, we have a bigger problem than… I mean, I've lived here only 12 years, but I see it as a bigger problem now than I've ever seen it. 666
01:48:26.170 --> 01:48:31.300
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And businesses are becoming frustrated, I'm becoming frustrated, and, you know.
667
01:48:31.430 --> 01:48:45.139
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: we need to give the tools to our, you know, to the… to our public safety officers to actually, you know, be able to… to help us out here, so that was the spirit of it. I mean, it's just an unfortunate circumstance, but it is what it is. 668
01:48:45.830 --> 01:48:53.690
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, I don't know. You look like you had something to say, I didn't know. Revised Mara's point about the young girls that you referred to, I mean.
669
01:48:54.610 --> 01:49:00.350
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I look at it from the perspective that our public spaces are for everybody in the city, not just for a select few that choose to
670
01:49:00.550 --> 01:49:05.530
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Monopolize them, And their conduct be that
671
01:49:05.680 --> 01:49:23.449
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: of the type that prevents those young ladies from being able to enjoy our public space, because they're fearful of their own safety. So that's… that's my concern. Anytime that we would typically deal with any of these, it's a reactive situation where we've received a complaint or a call for service from somebody anyway. We're not just going to willy-nilly be
672
01:49:23.620 --> 01:49:28.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Driving around looking to, You know, to prosecute young girls sitting on the sidewalk.

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673
01:49:29.320 --> 01:49:37.939
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: or a transit person that's sitting on the sidewalk not bothering anybody either. It's… it's equitable and fair, distribution and enforcement.
674
01:49:38.110 --> 01:49:39.030
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Action.
675
01:49:39.170 --> 01:49:41.159
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that's the same for any law that we have.
676
01:49:41.390 --> 01:49:43.220
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Of which we have thousands. 677
01:49:44.870 --> 01:49:58.149
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, I'm sorry. Just a follow-up question. Are there any other ways to address specifically what the… what the problem might be other than this? Like, like if somebody's, say, passed out?
678
01:49:58.270 --> 01:49:59.529
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In front of a…
679
01:50:00.680 --> 01:50:09.269
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: inebriated, kind of, like, not in a good place in front of a business. Is there another tool that we have to be able to deal with that? Yes.
680
01:50:09.840 --> 01:50:14.970
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, there's ping wall codes for that. We have 647F of the ping wall code for
681
01:50:15.140 --> 01:50:17.990
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Somebody that's, you know, unable to take care of themselves because of…
682
01:50:18.350 --> 01:50:21.070
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The effects of a drug or alcohol, so,
683
01:50:21.640 --> 01:50:23.719
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We did that this morning at Safeway.
684
01:50:24.450 --> 01:50:26.499
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's… it's commonly used. 685
01:50:27.670 --> 01:50:34.190
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But if that… can I ask you a question? If that were actually working, then we still have these problems. Yeah, oh…
686
01:50:34.530 --> 01:50:45.500
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: A lot of our issues can also be traced back to the fact that two hours after we take these people to jail, if that's where they end up needing to go, they're back in our department requesting their property back because they've been released already.
687
01:50:45.880 --> 01:50:49.460
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, that's a problem that we find challenging.
688
01:50:51.790 --> 01:50:56.860
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The consequences do not deter Their conduct, sometimes.
689
01:50:58.090 --> 01:51:07.279
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other questions? So, how would finding these people benefit the situation
690
01:51:08.160 --> 01:51:11.079
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think that's just an option, 691
01:51:11.870 --> 01:51:15.910
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think a lot of the time, these… Types of ordinances they…
692
01:51:16.010 --> 01:51:18.679
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They provide us with a tool to be able to
693
01:51:18.910 --> 01:51:22.520
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: have… and I use the word loosely, I don't want it to sound like I'm being…
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694
01:51:22.940 --> 01:51:32.970
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: forceful, that it gives us the power to be able to interact with somebody and… and have that conversation with them, rather than it being a consensual conversation.

We can be saying, your conduct is
695
01:51:33.560 --> 01:51:43.169
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: causing a problem, we've received a complaint. What you're doing is unlawful, we'd need you to move. And we would much prefer to do that, because we have many, many other things to take care of in this city.
696
01:51:43.320 --> 01:51:49.520
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: but obviously, things can go south, sideways, there's a million different directions things can go in, but… 697
01:51:49.800 --> 01:51:54.629
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I can't really give you a blanket, this is how it would always work, but we always start with 698
01:51:56.460 --> 01:51:59.950
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Voluntary compliance is what we… what we seek for everything.
699
01:52:01.820 --> 01:52:10.250
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And we really do have a very compassionate and professional staff of police here at the moment that we've worked really hard to build, and
700
01:52:10.390 --> 01:52:18.379
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm really proud of the way they police. It's… honestly, it's the proudest police department I've ever worked for, as far as how they treat people with dignity. 701
01:52:19.820 --> 01:52:21.450
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead, Councillor Brown. 702
01:52:21.770 --> 01:52:29.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: One last question. Isn't there already a law in place about obstructing a public walkway, and… 703
01:52:30.090 --> 01:52:32.610
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Doesn't that cover this? Agenda Item Number 1
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704
01:52:32.830 --> 01:52:43.140
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't have that in front of me right now, so I… I couldn't… Because I've just pulled… 647C. Yeah, and like I said, this is…
705
01:52:43.540 --> 01:52:55.269
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: there are rules in our municipal code as well about obstructing the sidewalk. So, you know, someone who's laying across, you know, perpendicular to your sidewalk, there are 706
01:52:55.700 --> 01:52:57.689
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: existing things…
707
01:52:58.060 --> 01:53:15.140
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can I chime in? What… what… and I asked about that before, and what I was told was that if they, you know, if they roll over out of the way, and they say, well, now I'm out of the way, but they still lay there, but they're not obstructing the sidewalk because a person can walk down, so they're still laying there, but they're not
708
01:53:15.140 --> 01:53:20.620
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: obstructing, you know what I mean? And we have a lot of people here who actually, you know, are very… 709
01:53:21.470 --> 01:53:23.279
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Adept at that, so… 710
01:53:23.950 --> 01:53:30.460
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's… that was the question I asked, as far as the, you know, what we had already in existence, which is why
711
01:53:30.610 --> 01:53:44.760
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We're here now, so… This is definitely not the answer to all of our problems, it's just another tool that may assist us in providing a public space for our citizens that's… that's more attractive, that might benefit our businesses and our citizens.
712
01:53:45.960 --> 01:53:47.479
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other questions? Agenda Item Number 1
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713
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01:53:48.150 --> 01:53:54.059
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, we'll go out to… thank you, Chief. Mary, if you want to go out to public comment?
714
01:53:54.240 --> 01:54:02.479
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Mayor. So this is public comment for the ordinance on… the proposed ordinance, sorry, on sit and lie, if you'd like to make a public comment, I will do
715
01:54:02.760 --> 01:54:04.960
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Chambers first, and they go out to Zoom, please.
716
01:54:08.860 --> 01:54:09.800
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
717
01:54:10.500 --> 01:54:25.809
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: represent the community, and the folks that are most vulnerable. Make sure your mic is on, just so the public… Oh, is it? I don't know, you can't hear. Test, test, test. It's just the people on Zoom can't hear if it doesn't go through the microphone. Check, check, check. Yep.
718
01:54:26.320 --> 01:54:32.350
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You represent the entire community.

The ones most at risk are unsheltered.
719
01:54:32.690 --> 01:54:33.960
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for dying.
720
01:54:34.180 --> 01:54:35.549
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: being injured.
721
01:54:36.030 --> 01:54:38.029
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Being too cold, too hot. 722
01:54:39.130 --> 01:54:40.750
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: being disrespected. 723
01:54:41.310 --> 01:54:43.270
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Not just downtown. 724
01:54:44.840 --> 01:54:47.269
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Tonight, when I was walking. 725
01:54:47.820 --> 01:54:52.019
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: there are folks on the West County Trail. It is not patrolled by the police.
726
01:54:52.740 --> 01:54:57.789
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That when they get kicked out from downtown, they go to the trails.
727
01:54:58.700 --> 01:55:00.470
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's not safe for them. 728
01:55:00.900 --> 01:55:02.470
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Many, many ways.
729
01:55:02.980 --> 01:55:08.330
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to be in the bushes. It's better for them in many ways, to be in a more public area.
730
01:55:09.540 --> 01:55:16.279
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, you know, I want to get off this downtown needs this and that. I walk early mornings in downtown. 731
01:55:16.420 --> 01:55:22.250
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't see high numbers. We need some evidence. Let's do evidence-based ordinance.
732
01:55:22.380 --> 01:55:26.339
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We don't have that. Anecdotal doesn't work. Please look at me.
733
01:55:27.060 --> 01:55:28.840
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Anecdotal doesn't work. 734
01:55:29.300 --> 01:55:31.189
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This is a big ordinance. 735
01:55:31.740 --> 01:55:35.540
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And it… the evidence just isn't there.

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736
Agenda Item Number 1
01:55:36.700 --> 01:55:44.019
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: When I see folks in rough conditions, I ask if they need a cup of coffee and a baked good, sometimes orange juice.
737
01:55:44.470 --> 01:55:49.860
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We have the ability to be compassionate. We're not San Francisco. Let's not go for that. 738
01:55:51.920 --> 01:55:55.240
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm frustrated even hearing this conversation.
739
01:55:55.380 --> 01:55:57.189
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We can do better than this. 740
01:55:58.740 --> 01:56:03.580
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.

Next, I will go out to Zoom. Kate, can you unmute yourself, please? 741
01:56:04.550 --> 01:56:06.039
kate: I am unmuted, thank you.
742
01:56:06.040 --> 01:56:07.380
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you. Go ahead. 743
01:56:07.650 --> 01:56:16.389
kate: I would just, one, like to reply to the person who just spoke.

Sebastopol actually has the most…
744
01:56:16.450 --> 01:56:27.499
kate: Probably the most support services for unhoused people in the entire Sonoma County. A homeless person can get a free meal, a shower. 745
01:56:27.500 --> 01:56:52.459
kate: We have the most, permanent supportive housing beds per capita of any city in Sonoma County. So, Sebastopol's actually pulling, like, 3 or, like, maybe even 10 times its weight when it comes to homeless services.

And as the commenter said, the Council represents the entire community, which means business owners who are working really hard to make 746
01:56:52.460 --> 01:56:58.789
kate: their businesses survive, and also hopefully generating some sales tax revenue for the city.

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747
01:56:58.870 --> 01:57:21.369
kate: And people who want to use their downtown sidewalks… I'm downtown a lot. There are a lot of people who are using public spaces in pretty selfish ways, I would say. You can't privatize a public sidewalk by turning it into your bedroom. You know, you can't privatize a public park by turning it into your apartment.
748
01:57:21.370 --> 01:57:22.830
kate: So, I…
749
01:57:23.200 --> 01:57:48.189
kate: In terms of unintended consequences, the American Disabilities Act, which is funded by public tax dollars, because we all want people with disabilities to have access to the sidewalk, says that you have to have a minimum of 36 inches, which is 3 feet. I doubt that if someone's laying on the sidewalk, that that provides ample clearance when you include street lights and other
750
01:57:48.190 --> 01:57:58.749
kate: amenities that naturally exist on a sidewalk. So, I would say that Sebastopol's actually done a fantastic job. We have Park Village. 751
01:57:58.750 --> 01:58:10.690
kate: We have Elderberry Commons, we have another permanent supportive housing facility on the way. Let's make the city for everyone, including residents that want to use the sidewalk and business owners. Thank you. 752
01:58:11.100 --> 01:58:23.629
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kate, for your public comment. Next, I'll come into Chambers. Thank you. Yeah, so I moved up here from San Francisco in 2013, and in 20… I remember this, in 2010, what was it? It was, a measure…
753
01:58:23.780 --> 01:58:36.650
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Measure L, to basically have a sitlie ordinance in San Francisco. And I remember it well, because it was getting really out of control there. I used to live in the Castro. And Santa Rosa has a similar ordinance now.
754
01:58:36.750 --> 01:58:40.339
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The net effect of this is if we don't have
755
01:58:40.510 --> 01:58:44.419
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: What everybody else has, then everybody's gonna come here, basically.
756
01:58:44.450 --> 01:59:00.370
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, as the previous speaker just said, this is probably the kindest city in Sonoma County, and the most helpful to homeless people, which is great, but it's also incredibly liberal as to whether you can lie in front of a coffee shop and then not move
757
01:59:00.370 --> 01:59:10.950
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: when the business owners come to open up in the morning, that's a big problem. And you're far more likely to come to the city of Sebastopol to lie around in front of a coffee shop than Santa Rosa.
758
01:59:11.040 --> 01:59:22.499
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Where you will be reprimanded by the police using these kind of laws. So, unfortunately, again, this is the weakest link problem that we have a lot in Sebastopol. 759
01:59:22.500 --> 01:59:38.139
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The more you put out the kind of the welcome shingle for people who are unhoused, disadvantaged, mentally ill, whatever it is, the more people will come here, and then that's more and more expensive to the city, more and more of the police's time, and it just doesn't work.
760
01:59:38.170 --> 01:59:41.519
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, yeah, I approve of this, this measure, absolutely. Thank you.
761
01:59:41.840 --> 01:59:49.829
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.

I will go back out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment on the proposed ordinance, please raise your hand virtually.
762
01:59:51.280 --> 02:00:11.120
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will come back into chambers. Kyle? Jill, I'm not offended if you don't look at me when I give public comment. I'm used to it at this point. This ordinance is not narrowly written to prevent sidewalk destruction. It's a law against poverty. It would make it illegal to sit or lie on public sidewalks anywhere responsible from 11 to 7… 7 a.m. to 11 p.m, even when no one is blocking pedestrian access.

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Agenda Item Number 1
763
02:00:11.120 --> 02:00:28.950
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That distinction tells us what this ordinance is really regulating. It's not obstruction, but poverty, and the public visibility of poor people. The agenda report cites City of Grants Pass v. Johnson from 2024, but it does not meaningfully address the long history of litigation
764
02:00:29.140 --> 02:00:52.560
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Over similar laws, including Tobe v. Santa Ana 1995, Roulette v. Seattle, 96, Jones v. City of Los Angeles, 2006, Martin v. City of Boise, 2018 and 2019, Atkinson, City of Aberdeen, 2020, and the Coalition on Homeless vs. the City and County of San Francisco, filed in 2022, settled in 2025. That's 3 years. 765
02:00:52.560 --> 02:00:53.560
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: litigation.
766
02:00:53.670 --> 02:00:57.940
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Why are these cases not identified, or analyzed in the agenda report? Hmm.
767
02:00:58.040 --> 02:01:22.999
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Why does the report offer counsel a legal conclusion without discussing the litigation risks involving disability rights, selective enforcement, excessive fines, due process, free expression, the difference between actual obstruction and merely existing in public? Sebastopol should already understand this risk. The city has only recently come through the ACLU-supported federal challenge to its RV
768
02:01:23.000 --> 02:01:23.740
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: ordinance.
769
02:01:23.740 --> 02:01:34.259
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And although the city prevailed in summary judgment, the lawsuit raised 14 causes of action and still required the city to devote public resources. Money! Money! Actual money! 770
02:01:34.270 --> 02:01:36.040
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to federal litigation. 771
02:01:36.770 --> 02:01:39.660
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Are we that… like… Agenda Item Number 1
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772
Agenda Item Number 1
02:01:39.810 --> 02:01:58.100
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: amnesiatic here, that we don't understand, that when we try to do laws against poverty, we're gonna get sued, and if, even if we think that we can rely on Johnson and Grant's pass as some decision, that we're not gonna spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to Alex.
773
02:01:58.390 --> 02:02:00.550
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is that what you want? That's 2 minutes.
774
02:02:00.860 --> 02:02:02.580
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment. 775
02:02:02.830 --> 02:02:09.559
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Next, I'll go back out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment on the proposed ordinance, please raise your hand virtually.
776
02:02:10.590 --> 02:02:13.809
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will come back into chambers, if there's anyone in chambers.
777
02:02:14.270 --> 02:02:20.609
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: CNN is back at the Council. All right, back here at the diaspora comments. Councilmember Hinton had her hand up first.
778
02:02:23.670 --> 02:02:31.069
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, there's just no way I'm supporting this, and I just want to say, I walk…
779
02:02:31.210 --> 02:02:38.899
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: in the mornings, frequently, with my friend. She has a little dog, Bilsen, that's very famous. All the dog walkers know everybody, and
780
02:02:39.220 --> 02:02:48.350
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes, I can't think of once, and maybe they're… Maybe I… once, okay, up behind City Hall or something, but…
781
02:02:48.350 --> 02:02:59.469
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I do not see people laying on the sidewalk, blocking the front doors of business, and I would say having, at one time probably in my life.
782
02:03:00.120 --> 02:03:04.149
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Visited a business where maybe somebody was sleeping in front when you ask them to move. 783
02:03:04.280 --> 02:03:07.630
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: they've moved. We are Peac Town. 784
02:03:08.310 --> 02:03:15.670
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I take that… I get we're a liberal town, I think, but we're peaceful, and we appreciate people 785
02:03:16.140 --> 02:03:24.280
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: all people, and… and I… there's just no way. Not to mention the possibilities for litigation. 786
02:03:24.560 --> 02:03:29.899
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: which are real. And, I'm just, I… 787
02:03:30.250 --> 02:03:35.260
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: can appreciate that we all get to bring agenda items up, but I just feel very strongly on this one. 788
02:03:36.980 --> 02:03:47.630
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm sorry, go ahead, Councilmember Zamel. Yeah, same, ditto, for the comments that I made when I was questioning Alex.
789
02:03:49.720 --> 02:04:04.910
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: just the implications as a whole from a legal point of view of selective, prosecution. And again, our sole blocking of that is our police discretion. I'm not… I'm not okay with that. I'm not okay with it.
790
02:04:04.950 --> 02:04:14.250
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: being implemented that way, and I'm also not comfortable having that level of risk come to the city in passing something like this. And also.
791
02:04:14.610 --> 02:04:29.209
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We are a peaceful city, and we're also very vocal, and I do have huge concerns about how this will be implemented, when more and more of our residents come out exercising their free speech and freedom of assembly. So, I'm not supporting this at all.
792
02:04:30.270 --> 02:04:31.689
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead, Vice Mayor. 793
02:04:31.830 --> 02:04:33.330
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So…
794
02:04:33.690 --> 02:04:40.040
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's hard to… it's hard to know what the experience of the police department is. I'm not on the police staff.
795
02:04:40.200 --> 02:04:54.800
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm not a small business owner downtown. I think it's unfortunate that we didn't hear from any of the small business owners who are having these… I mean, we heard from one.

Our mayor owns a small business downtown, but that's the only small business owner we've heard.
796
02:04:55.020 --> 02:05:03.280
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So it's hard for me to wrap my mind around the need for something when it's not my… I just don't get it, you know? And I…
797
02:05:03.530 --> 02:05:08.129
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have really big concerns with the idea of selective enforcement.
798
02:05:08.760 --> 02:05:16.969
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the idea that it's really pretty much targeting a specific group, and I'm not comfortable with that at all.
799
02:05:17.090 --> 02:05:22.110
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I think there's big unintended consequences with it.
800
02:05:22.900 --> 02:05:27.639
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The legal risk, and then the idea of
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801
02:05:27.760 --> 02:05:46.110
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: if you are exercising your First Amendment free speech right, you're doing a civil disobedience, and you sit on a sidewalk, and everybody's sitting on that sidewalk, that they would get fined for sitting on the sidewalk. And that really bothers me.

So, I'm not supporting that signal.
802
02:05:48.260 --> 02:05:50.830
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, any other? Did you have any comments?
803
02:05:51.870 --> 02:05:53.560
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No comments? Becca? 804
02:05:53.970 --> 02:06:08.900
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, it doesn't sound like we have support, but I do have a few comments, and one is the next time… I just want to say, first of all, I just implore my colleagues to pull your head out of the sand, and look at what's happening to our downtown, and as a business owner.
805
02:06:08.900 --> 02:06:18.050
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I don't know what to tell you. I see this all the time. I have businesses complain to me, so I will be referring them all to you, and I'll be giving them your names when they have trouble.
806
02:06:18.230 --> 02:06:32.400
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then just… I implore you to come up with some other solutions to help deal with the challenges that are downtown. As someone, like I said, who's down there, I called 911 a few weeks ago because of some issues, so I just…
807
02:06:33.060 --> 02:06:49.269
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just think that some people like to have their head in the sand, and I'm sorry for that, and I just brought this forth because I… seriously, you know, our police officers have said that they need some type of tool to deal with the challenges that they're facing and that the businesses are, so,
808
02:06:49.270 --> 02:07:01.070
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm gonna make a motion and enforce everybody to say no. So, I'd just like to make a motion to pass this. If I get a second, great. If not, but I'm just taking a stance with this, so…
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809
02:07:01.110 --> 02:07:04.550
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm gonna make a motion to actually,
810
02:07:05.030 --> 02:07:18.969
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Where is it at? To pass, you know, the municipal Code Chapter 12.24, obstruction of street sidewalks or public places to add provisions prohibiting sitting or lying on the public sidewalks during certain hours.
811
02:07:19.660 --> 02:07:23.379
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, I'm making a motion, and if we don't get it, then that's fine, but…
812
02:07:24.210 --> 02:07:26.509
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead, I didn't see your hand.
813
02:07:27.700 --> 02:07:34.430
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I just want to respond in comments, not to second the motion. I… I… I feel…
814
02:07:34.610 --> 02:07:42.410
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: as I said in my comments, we all have the right to bring these items forward, but I also feel like I'm willing to address… lived here
815
02:07:42.410 --> 02:07:59.849
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a very long time, and I don't have my head in the sand. In fact, I also called 911 the other day when there was somebody across from the post office on private property in front of a house, and screaming, and I believe the police did respond. And that, to me, is an actionable item. This…
816
02:08:00.000 --> 02:08:01.260
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Ordinance.
817
02:08:02.320 --> 02:08:09.869
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: is a blanket ordinance, and again, I wouldn't support a blanket ordinance.
818
02:08:10.170 --> 02:08:11.270
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In any way.

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819
02:08:14.280 --> 02:08:38.260
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm sorry, go ahead. Yeah, and I also feel, an obligation to respond, to the head in the sand, and I wish that people will come up with alternates. I don't really know how many alternates that we could not have brought forth. We brought forth HEART, some of us have pushed for, Citizens Academy to get more of our citizens who volunteer, want to volunteer their time to address and to help our police.
820
02:08:38.260 --> 02:09:03.050
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, yeah, I do take that as an offense, and the fact of, like, get your head out of your head. Like, some of us have been doing a lot on the Homeless Coalition Board to address and help our police, and pushing police, who seem to be very reluctant to even entertain a Citizens Academy. So, yeah, that was problematic. Well, and I've been told that the heart would not respond, could not respond. I've asked all the right questions, and you and I both know we're both on the same committees.
821
02:09:03.150 --> 02:09:08.010
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and attend that, and I… and I… I hear you, and I've asked all those questions, and this was… 822
02:09:08.010 --> 02:09:23.280
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the final solution that was handed to me because of heart's not able to respond, the other mental health teams, they're not able to respond from Santa Rosa. I've asked all the questions, I've been there, I mean, I don't know what else to do, so I just tried to work with our
823
02:09:23.280 --> 02:09:39.970
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: chief of police, who is head of… head of our public safety to come up with a solution, and our attorney, and find something that's already been vetted and is not a litigation issue, because it's already been vetted. But at any rate, I just… I just want our, you know, our businesses to know that
824
02:09:40.620 --> 02:09:43.240
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm trying. So, at any rate, 825
02:09:43.550 --> 02:09:49.159
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: At this point, we don't have, anything, so can we just move on? Okay.
826
02:09:49.810 --> 02:09:53.660
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Alright, so let's go to item number…
827
02:09:53.790 --> 02:09:57.250
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: 9, right? Am I on the right number here?
828
02:09:58.440 --> 02:10:02.590
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But I want to do a quick check. Are you all okay with continuing, or do you need a break?
829
02:10:03.050 --> 02:10:08.859
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You want a break? Okay, I just realized it's, like, 8.15, so… So, like, 8.20.
830
02:10:10.350 --> 02:10:13.539
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm sorry, is that enough? Okay.

Cool.
831
02:10:19.480 --> 02:10:21.909
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, alright, we are back. 832
02:10:22.120 --> 02:10:38.990
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: From our break, and we are at item number 9. Let's see, request for approval of hours for City Attorney research on legal options on response to community concerns of graffiti and racial mockery associated with the Safeway area.
833
02:10:39.030 --> 02:10:50.649
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And this… I just want to comment before I turn this over to, Councilmember Zolman. The, police chief, City Manager, and I met with the,
834
02:10:50.650 --> 02:11:06.669
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the residents today who requested… who were at our last meeting, and they actually requested that this item be delayed so that they could all be present, but I want to turn this over to Councilmember Zolman, because this is his item, and it's his decision on where he would like to go with it.
835
02:11:08.070 --> 02:11:10.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think you're nicer. So, thank you, Madam Mayor.

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836
Agenda Item Number 1
02:11:11.180 --> 02:11:13.250
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes,
837
02:11:17.850 --> 02:11:36.319
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the reason why I brought this through a gender review, was because, from what I sensed without Brown acting with the mayor on this issue, was that we had different approaches to this. As you… the public has probably gotten a sense from my comments tonight.
838
02:11:36.320 --> 02:11:46.079
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The police are not everything in our city. We set policy, and I disagreed with the approach that when community members have concerns.
839
02:11:46.080 --> 02:11:55.170
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That it's somehow just lumped together as a public safety concern, and therefore, police would be the final say, and the need to have a meeting with them.
840
02:11:55.170 --> 02:12:07.320
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I disagreed when I overheard that general perspective and approach to this. Also, I had problems with the fact that I understood through various emails, again, not Brown Acted with the mayor.
841
02:12:07.440 --> 02:12:09.960
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That the poli- there was… 842
02:12:09.980 --> 02:12:23.760
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Finally, all the residents could come together, and at the last minute, our police chief could not make themselves available. And apparently, our general manager, who oversees, our city manager, who oversees this particular staff member. 843
02:12:23.760 --> 02:12:32.789
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: was like, well, I don't know, I guess we just can't have the meeting. So that, to me, was concerning, and the reason why I pushed this forward to have this hurt. 844
02:12:32.830 --> 02:12:42.930
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I also got a sense from being CC'd, on various emails from members of the public, and they don't understand the Brown Act,
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845
Agenda Item Number 1
02:12:43.020 --> 02:12:59.760
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that apparently a lot of my colleagues have been approached on this issue. I didn't respond back, I did to a core group, saying the fact that I heard your concerns at the last council meeting, and I'm bringing forth this agenda item, and I think I CC'd Mary on one of them, that it's going to be on this date. 846
02:12:59.850 --> 02:13:17.070
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But since my colleagues have all apparently been approached by various people, too, and apparently since we have no one from the community here, I guess they left the meeting earlier today with the idea that they could just postpone this. And I totally get this.
847
02:13:17.070 --> 02:13:29.029
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because they all want to collectively be here. For me, I'm interested in hearing my colleagues, now that we're all together, what they would want to see happen with this issue. For me, I think it would be great to
848
02:13:29.060 --> 02:13:31.639
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to go ahead and discuss. 849
02:13:31.670 --> 02:13:46.850
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the substance of the request, which is to get from Alex, through allocation of time, what are the full legal avenues that we have, short of the police? Because if the police were able to solve this problem.
850
02:13:46.850 --> 02:14:06.750
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: with their mockery and everything else, they would have already been locked up. They would have been trashed down, locked up, and probably on their way to prison, right? It's not a criminal, necessarily, enforcement action. So for me, if we defer this, I would like the ability for my colleagues to have time 851
02:14:06.750 --> 02:14:18.669
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: through ALEKS to do some research so that we have a fully fleshed-out staff report when this does get continued. So that's the reason why, when I overheard from Mary and from our mayor.
852
02:14:18.670 --> 02:14:29.170
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that it just seemed like it was a foregone conclusion when I sat down here tonight that the public wants this to be taken off, so I'm just gonna, like, roll over and just take it off. I'm like, no, I'm gonna make my comments.

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853
02:14:29.170 --> 02:14:35.159
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, of course, listen to staff, listen to my colleagues. If they want to roll this over, because 854
02:14:35.160 --> 02:14:53.649
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: they want the full public here, that's great, but I also would like my colleagues to give thought about how well prepared do we want to be when this hits the next agenda item, which unfortunately is not till the beginning of September, which is an entire month from now, because we're not meeting again in August. So those are my comments, so I'm open to
855
02:14:53.650 --> 02:15:01.589
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: staff's comments, colleagues' comments, what to do with the item? Well, I can just share the meeting today, and
856
02:15:02.410 --> 02:15:09.829
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and having the police chief there, and that is because the police chief and the city manager and I 857
02:15:09.830 --> 02:15:25.940
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: it was… it was explained to us that these were… there were challenges with, as they termed it, Annalee students, and it was Safeway, and the way… the reason I got pulled into it is because the police chief, myself, and the city manager meet regularly… have been meeting regularly with those
858
02:15:25.940 --> 02:15:34.299
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: stakeholders for… for months about, you know, different things that are going on at Safeway, so that's how I got pulled into that, and that's the only reason, like, today we had 859
02:15:34.800 --> 02:15:47.009
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: discussions around, you know, what we've done already, and discussions that we've had, and who could we, you know, bring in later, based on just all the different people that we know through those meetings that we've had. So that's kind of how that 860
02:15:47.200 --> 02:16:03.450
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: how I got pulled into that and also got the email, so, I don't know who wants to, you know… And by way of just a response to that, yes, I was privy to the fact that, you know, each of us can do informally what they want to do, but for me, in the back of my mind was, one of us do not speak.

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861
02:16:03.900 --> 02:16:21.159
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: on behalf of any one issue. So I was willing to just sort of let it roll until we weren't getting any action at all with one request. People showing up in public, and then emails. That, to me, was like, I think we need to go through the process of having
862
02:16:21.300 --> 02:16:34.570
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a discussion about who's responding as a body, one person, that's the reason why. And I will say, I am recognizing, I will say today we had that discussion about, you know, because they were saying they didn't feel like that
863
02:16:34.680 --> 02:16:51.090
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, they've talked to… they've talked to the city, and people weren't doing anything, but it turns out they've been talking to so many different people, and we can't all talk, and they didn't understand that, and so that's why, you know, anyway, so there's just a lot of, like, you know.
864
02:16:51.090 --> 02:17:03.420
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: there's a lot of people that live there who are talking, and then they're all reaching out to different people with us, and different people at the city, and all the different, you know, reasons that preclude us from talking. So, anyway, go ahead, Councilmember Hinton.
865
02:17:05.150 --> 02:17:24.399
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I mean, I think we should take it tonight, because we can move it forward, and again, as has been pointed out, a lot of times the public doesn't realize Brown Act and all the rules. Councilmember Zolman, after they showed up last time, put it on agenda. I don't want to hijack his agenda item, and we are… 866
02:17:24.770 --> 02:17:32.599
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: an equal body. The mayor is, takes lead, but as… for communication purposes, but…
867
02:17:32.639 --> 02:17:46.989
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think we should take this up tonight, and it will probably continue on to a future agenda item, possibly, depending on the discussions and decisions tonight. And I just want to tell you, just based on… because we asked them 3 different times, and they said they…
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868
Agenda Item Number 1
02:17:47.290 --> 02:18:10.809
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: did not want it on tonight because they said they felt like they needed to have everybody here with a voice, and I'm not advocating either way, I'm just being the communicator as far as what was said at the meeting, so that everyone's aware of, like, what they were saying to us. So, however you decide to proceed is fine. I just want to make sure that I at least communicate what was communicated to us. That's great, and I appreciate that, and also my other comments, 869
02:18:10.809 --> 02:18:19.529
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: have comments from my other colleagues, yes, I would like to proceed with the substance of this, which is, again, to ask this body if they're willing to give 870
02:18:19.799 --> 02:18:27.620
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a certain amount of hours, Alex, I don't remember what you said, to give us a full legal perspective of our various options.
871
02:18:27.620 --> 02:18:46.469
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: dealing with a commercial private entity, one that we do have limited jurisdiction over. Is it 5 hours of your time to come prepared with a thorough staff report? Like, thorough.

If we give you 5 hours of expecting some magic and a staff report when this comes back at the beginning of September. Is that how much it's going to take?
872
02:18:49.309 --> 02:18:55.330
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I would imagine more than 5 hours.

I think 10 is probably reasonable.
873
02:18:55.450 --> 02:19:09.479
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And why so? Because we have not discussed this outside of just what a… Mary was gracious enough to help me pull together by way of an agenda. Explain to us why it would take 10 hours. What will you be doing? Yeah, well…
874
02:19:10.010 --> 02:19:28.499
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So there's a whole lot of different areas. So we clearly have the ability to adopt, you know, a graffiti, abatement ordinance, you know, and adopt that. That's clear. We could do that and set requirements to hold a property owner responsible for graffiti, you know, if it's not cleaned up within a certain amount of time.
875
02:19:30.240 --> 02:19:34.860
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Other things, I know there's been a request for…
876
02:19:35.930 --> 02:19:38.580
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, can we make them have a… install a fence?
877
02:19:38.969 --> 02:19:40.969
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: generally.
878
02:19:41.250 --> 02:19:52.119
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: that's not an option for an existing business, that doesn't need any approvals from the city. They're not coming to the city for a use permit or design review. 879
02:19:52.210 --> 02:20:07.339
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But we'd be researching to see whether, you know, maybe there's some method. Also, looking into whether the city could bring some sort of nuisance claim against the business.

Those can be hard.
880
02:20:07.440 --> 02:20:12.400
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Especially when the nuisances are coming from, sort of.
881
02:20:12.510 --> 02:20:17.350
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Third part, not from the entity itself, but from third parties.
882
02:20:17.520 --> 02:20:21.340
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Who just happened to be doing it on their property.
883
02:20:21.610 --> 02:20:25.940
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But looking into whether that might be a, option.
884
02:20:26.210 --> 02:20:28.329
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, and the biggest request was they…
885
02:20:28.830 --> 02:20:33.030
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They said that they want, the city to install cameras there.

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886
02:20:33.200 --> 02:20:38.440
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Either makes way or the city install cameras ourself, and that was one of the big…
887
02:20:38.920 --> 02:20:43.230
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: request. Right, so… Like, that's a… 888
02:20:43.570 --> 02:20:50.439
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the fence is the same thing as the cameras. We can't require property… private property owners to… to… 889
02:20:50.550 --> 02:21:00.820
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: do things unless there's a nexus to what they're requesting from the city. So, you know, when a business comes for a use permit or a
890
02:21:01.390 --> 02:21:07.180
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Design review, you know, then we have the ability, because they're seeking a permit from us. 891
02:21:07.500 --> 02:21:14.730
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: When it's an existing establishment, that's harder. Just like we couldn't go up to, 892
02:21:14.990 --> 02:21:19.869
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Existing homeowner and say, we don't like the, you know.
893
02:21:21.080 --> 02:21:29.809
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, the design of your house, change that. You know, when they come with a proposal to build a new house, then we might have it at that period of time.
894
02:21:30.690 --> 02:21:42.730
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And of course, as the Council knows, for the city to install our own cameras, if we're installing them on their property, we need their permission, and even if we're installing them on our
895
02:21:43.370 --> 02:21:53.330
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: property that would require a change in our surveillance ordinance to authorize those cameras in that particular location.

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896
02:21:55.530 --> 02:22:10.460
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can Safeway install cameras in that city? Sure, they could voluntarily, install cameras. They could voluntarily install a fence if that's what they want to do. It's just a question of what the city can,
897
02:22:10.540 --> 02:22:26.990
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: impose or force them to… Can we request that they install cameras, since there's problems there right now? But, I mean, there could be other people who might not want cameras in that section, too. You know, there could be unintended consequences of having cameras there, but…
898
02:22:27.030 --> 02:22:44.259
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, my interest in this is, was there were juveniles involved. There were 3 juveniles involved, I remember this, and I had written to the police chief about wanting to know the next steps. Could restorative justice be done? 899
02:22:44.300 --> 02:22:58.219
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I was told that, well, it's in the hands of the juvenile system, and so there wasn't any… I don't… I don't know what happened, and whether or not that we could… could the city require something like restorative justice?
900
02:22:59.950 --> 02:23:06.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So the city, I mean, the only way the city could require that is if the city was…
901
02:23:07.190 --> 02:23:14.610
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: creating a… and enforcing something, and then the quote-unquote punishment is restorative justice.

We can't…
902
02:23:14.770 --> 02:23:21.780
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: force individuals to attend meetings or do anything like that.
903
02:23:22.190 --> 02:23:35.129
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, Certive Justice is a program that people have to go through when they… and they learn from their experience what it's like for the other people. We can't force people to do things. We can't go to someone and say.

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904
Agenda Item Number 1
02:23:35.130 --> 02:23:42.549
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you're… you have to go the restorative justice. The juvenile court system could do that as part of a criminal
905
02:23:42.550 --> 02:23:44.130
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Horsemen are in lieu of. 906
02:23:44.300 --> 02:23:50.050
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But the city doesn't have any… unless we make… An ordinance and say.
907
02:23:50.670 --> 02:23:53.860
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You have to do this thing, we… we… 908
02:23:54.860 --> 02:24:10.510
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, but we could make an ordinance that required restorative justice. We'd have… I'd have to look into that. Okay. And we have… I just want to say before I recognize you here, I know that the police chief spoke to something that, I mean, to the incident and the…
909
02:24:10.510 --> 02:24:15.689
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: in the subsequent consequences or whatever, I don't know if that's of interest for you to… 910
02:24:16.060 --> 02:24:32.850
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: mention at some point, but go ahead, Councilmember Solung. Yeah, but I mean, getting to my main point earlier, we set policy, so, Alex, could we not direct the Chief? Because I know the Chief's made comments in the past about, like, I've increased arrest rates, and this and this and that.
911
02:24:32.850 --> 02:24:40.490
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Without, like, getting into something that's off-topic, there would be a future agenda item about the implications of just arresting willy-nilly people
912
02:24:40.490 --> 02:24:51.080
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: including juveniles, could we not direct, through Mary to her subordinate, that restorative justice be pursued
913
02:24:51.230 --> 02:24:56.939
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: should these people be identified, right? I get you're sort of addressing the fact that
914
02:24:57.270 --> 02:25:10.539
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, only courts, when they come before a judge, can decide if that's something that the court's willing to do, which is to give a juvenile offender the opportunity to participate in juvenile justice
915
02:25:10.790 --> 02:25:17.010
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: so that they don't end up with a record, right? But could we not, if we decided to do this short of an ordinance.
916
02:25:17.470 --> 02:25:22.440
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: through Mary, direct our chief to pursue restorative justice
917
02:25:23.560 --> 02:25:27.950
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: As the first beginning point with dealing with juveniles, right?
918
02:25:28.080 --> 02:25:34.310
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So the council could adopt a policy 919
02:25:34.490 --> 02:25:42.970
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In general, of, you know, we… the police department should pursue restorative justice,
920
02:25:44.330 --> 02:25:49.119
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, in lieu of making arrests or something. I, I,
921
02:25:49.450 --> 02:25:56.930
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Have to think through how that might play out in practice.
922
02:25:58.560 --> 02:26:03.300
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, I guess, are you just… when you see an incident, they are…
923
02:26:03.940 --> 02:26:13.029
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And something occurring, just telling these individuals, here's a restorative justice, we hope you come to participate in it.
924
02:26:14.290 --> 02:26:19.790
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And if you don't, we're gonna, like… How are we getting that…
925
02:26:19.960 --> 02:26:39.820
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: juveniles to participate in the restorative… Right, and my answer to this briefly is, through being a former juvenile public defender, like, if we're going to allow you to do 10 hours, contact the presiding judge of the juvenile branch and figure out what policies they have, because having represented youth, that is an option.
926
02:26:39.980 --> 02:26:45.600
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you bring the parents in and go, listen, little Johnny has been accused of X, Y, and Z, here's what's gonna happen.
927
02:26:45.750 --> 02:26:50.909
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Here's an option to do restorative justice, or our place can haul them away
928
02:26:50.910 --> 02:27:09.629
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: two fingerprints, which will be locked in the system for how many ever years, probably the rest of their life, and they're going to look at jail time, right? There are policies in other municipalities, and so I'm hoping that if the council does approve 10 hours, one of them is… is for you to actually go, not do 929
02:27:10.000 --> 02:27:23.420
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: individual work, but still as best practices from other jurisdictions, which one of them would be… But are you talking about other jurisdiction court systems have policies, or cities…
930
02:27:23.420 --> 02:27:33.569
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No. Individual police departments have policies… That city… that the city electeds have blessed be the policy for how juvenile
931
02:27:33.570 --> 02:27:49.720
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: are handled and addressed. Do you have an example that might point me in the right? No, because this is not Agenda Item Number 1
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my job. Yes, but… This is your job. Yes, and I'm saying I'm not aware of a single local municipal authority, because what it seems you're implying is that
932
02:27:49.810 --> 02:27:58.909
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This interaction on the street, or wherever this occurs, before someone is arrested or cited, this offer should be made.
933
02:27:58.990 --> 02:28:16.429
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Of course, they'll be cited, right? They'll be cited, and then you have the policy saying these are your options. You either participate in community justice, or you could go to the… We're not the prosecuting agency to make those decisions. Okay, never mind. I'm exhausted. Just leave it at that.
934
02:28:19.220 --> 02:28:24.119
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, go ahead, Vice Mayor. Let's see, bring it back.
935
02:28:24.370 --> 02:28:30.730
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, my… I'm afraid I'm getting into more into discussion and not questions, but I think that… 936
02:28:30.960 --> 02:28:42.939
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The juveniles were arrested for what they did, and my interest was in How can the city enforce 937
02:28:43.970 --> 02:28:49.410
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: After arrest, enforce restorative justice in this case.
938
02:28:50.180 --> 02:28:52.220
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So that they're learning. 939
02:28:53.440 --> 02:29:00.939
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, they… there's got to be some learning here. And so, is it possible to enforce restorative justice 940
02:29:01.230 --> 02:29:03.629
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In the case of racism. 941
02:29:05.910 --> 02:29:15.199
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In the city. I'll get… see if I can find a way to do that and get back to you in those 10 hours. We have Councilmember Hinton who has a question.
942
02:29:17.050 --> 02:29:27.899
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, and I… I don't know if Mary might remember, but, I do know when my son was in high school, he'd gotten a little something and got…
943
02:29:28.040 --> 02:29:41.170
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a ticket, and, we went to a program that was funded and over, down from the hospital, and I thought it was partially funded through the Sebastopol Police Department by a grant. 944
02:29:41.370 --> 02:29:51.460
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I can't recall the agency, but I do remember we went with a bunch of other high school kids and parents for restorative justice. We had to attend.
945
02:29:51.530 --> 02:30:10.360
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And for that, our… the ticket got waived. But I do believe it was a very specialized grant program. I think it existed for a couple years, would have been around 2015, and I don't think we were forced to do that. We could either pay, but we, of course, bought
946
02:30:10.430 --> 02:30:18.019
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: well, this is gonna be more punishment. We're gonna attend. And we attended it right here in Sebastopol. But that was a long time ago.
947
02:30:18.200 --> 02:30:33.890
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And I would suspect that we can't force people to do that. Of course, we could pass a policy that we encourage, but I'm just offering that there did used to be one, and the Sebastopol Police was aware of it, because they recommended it to us. 948
02:30:35.940 --> 02:30:45.660
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can I ask you, Alex, based on all of this… these questions and everything, what would be your best guesstimate of the amount of time
949
02:30:46.420 --> 02:30:56.959
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That would be needed allocated for such a topic? I think we're… seems like we're… the 10 hours will work. It Agenda Item Number 1
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seems like we're… the Council's focused really on the restorative justice.
950
02:30:57.220 --> 02:31:04.640
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: elements. Can't hear you. 10 hours, I think, will be fine to… to do this. It seems like the Council has narrowed
951
02:31:04.800 --> 02:31:09.220
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The interest and what it wants to look at, just to list restorative justice.
952
02:31:09.400 --> 02:31:10.720
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Peace.
953
02:31:12.960 --> 02:31:13.960
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
954
02:31:14.240 --> 02:31:16.850
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any other questions? 955
02:31:17.200 --> 02:31:18.540
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Mary… oh.
956
02:31:18.690 --> 02:31:21.430
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, and a graffiti policy. 957
02:31:21.890 --> 02:31:28.669
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That, I mean, that is very clear, we can do that. Yeah, and a graffiti policy. So, I mean… 958
02:31:30.330 --> 02:31:43.430
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I would think somebody like Safeway… They asked if we had a blight ordinance, because they said that it's so dirty back there all the time. That was another thing that came up at the discussion. They said, don't we have a blight ordinance? 959
02:31:45.020 --> 02:31:56.059
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And… and because they said there's so much trash back there, I mean, Marion, our chief, can attest to that.

That was one of their big things they were asking about. 960
02:31:56.320 --> 02:31:57.230
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead.
961
02:31:58.590 --> 02:32:06.350
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Weren't we working on a blight ordinance? We… a draft ordinance was presented to the Council, and the Council voted not to adopt it.
962
02:32:09.830 --> 02:32:17.549
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I let them know that, but that was one of the first things they asked for, is don't we have a blight ordinance to force them to clean up?
963
02:32:17.950 --> 02:32:27.350
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I remember that, and it had to do with inside people's backyards. So, just want to be clear, it wasn't just about public spaces.
964
02:32:27.990 --> 02:32:34.760
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I recall that now, it went a little bit… yeah, no, no, no, I get it, but…
965
02:32:34.940 --> 02:32:38.649
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Maybe at some point, we could revisit that in a different way.
966
02:32:39.560 --> 02:32:42.319
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, so do you want to go about public comment?
967
02:32:44.830 --> 02:33:00.519
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes, thank you, Mayor. So this is on the agenda item for discussing the City Attorney to research legal options on responding to the community concerns for the graffiti and racial mockery associated at Safeway. I will go into chambers first, and then Zoom, if there's anyone in chambers.
968
02:33:01.260 --> 02:33:02.120
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Kyle?
969
02:33:08.320 --> 02:33:30.970
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All right, I really just want to address the unequal urgency that this Council has shown towards different forms of hateful conduct. On March 7th, 2023, Councilmember Rick Lewis brought forward an anti-hate resolution inspired by anti-police graffiti on the Bank of America building, and although the Council ultimately Agenda Item Number 1
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asked that the resolution be revised, the incident was serious enough at that time to receive a formal agenda item and a proposed city-wise statement.
970
02:33:30.970 --> 02:33:39.489
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Now, months after residents have reported racist conduct directed at children of color, the city is only now beginning to consider what it might do.
971
02:33:39.580 --> 02:33:47.989
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That difference matters. Police officers have a department, legal protections, representation, the institutional power of government behind them. Children of color do not. 972
02:33:47.990 --> 02:34:01.599
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yet, offensive political graffiti directed at police generated a proposed anti-hate resolution, while dehumanizing racial harassment directed at a child has produced further research, future meetings, and no firm timetable for action. 973
02:34:01.600 --> 02:34:16.250
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm not arguing that vandalism or hostility towards police should be ignored. I'm asking why racist conduct against children has not received at least the same urgency and agendasetting attention. Private property may limit some enforcement options, but it doesn't justify delay.
974
02:34:16.350 --> 02:34:27.789
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The city can immediately contact Safeway, support the affected families, document the incidents, hold the neighborhood meeting, assign a responsible staff liaison, require legal recommendations by a specific date.
975
02:34:28.130 --> 02:34:33.029
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Do more than just authorize an open-ended process. Set deadlines.
976
02:34:33.300 --> 02:34:34.969
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sign responsibility. 977
02:34:35.270 --> 02:34:43.320
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: require follow-through. In 2023, Mayor McLewis said that democracy works only when policies and laws include everyone, and I agree.

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978
Agenda Item Number 1
02:34:43.470 --> 02:34:52.949
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That principle must include African American children, whose dignity and safety deserves at least the same public concern that this city showed when police were the target. 979
02:34:55.150 --> 02:35:02.559
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Kyle, for your public comment. Next, I will go out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment, please raise your hand virtually. 980
02:35:04.330 --> 02:35:06.740
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I will come back into chambers.
981
02:35:11.430 --> 02:35:14.089
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just wanted to say you're using… can you hear me?
982
02:35:14.490 --> 02:35:20.970
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You're using the term blight, I walk past that pit avenue quite a lot, and there's drug paraphernalia. 983
02:35:21.380 --> 02:35:24.579
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There's needles, not just vape. 984
02:35:24.710 --> 02:35:38.209
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Partridges, but there's needles. I use my little dog bag and pick them up. If you want me to take pictures, I will. But to me, it's a very critical intersect between juveniles and some pretty heavy drug use.
985
02:35:40.100 --> 02:35:46.570
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you for your public comment.

Next, I'll go back out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment, to please raise your hand.
986
02:35:47.090 --> 02:35:53.340
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, it'll come back into chambers. Well, that was really embarrassing. We had, first of all. 987
02:35:53.610 --> 02:36:00.519
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the council flailing around trying to understand, getting a tool for certain lie ordinance, which is kind of a…
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988
02:36:00.720 --> 02:36:10.229
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: just a tool that the police can use with their discretion for, you know, if they really need to. And now we've had a lot of flailing around with the council, failing to understand
989
02:36:10.470 --> 02:36:16.060
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: pretty much anything about this, and this kind of obsession. You'd think…
990
02:36:16.630 --> 02:36:33.329
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: from the previous sit and lie ordinance conversation, this would be just part of the everyday stuff that goes on in the city and let it go, you know? I mean, bit of drug dealing, bit of graffiti, no problem, really. You know, there might be marginalized, disadvantaged people.
991
02:36:33.400 --> 02:36:40.360
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: You know, so it just kind of comes with the territory, that's who we are, but, you know, part of the community.
992
02:36:40.570 --> 02:36:42.739
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I'm just wondering, 993
02:36:43.380 --> 02:37:00.400
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: kind of where we're going to go with this, because we seem to be burning a huge amount of time and energy and money with Alex and so on, to sort of flail around and try and figure out if you can reinvent the, the justice system around the city of Sebastopol or some members of the City of Sebastopol Council. 994
02:37:02.030 --> 02:37:14.660
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: don't really need the police, apparently. They're not very good, according to Councilmember Zalman. So maybe, you know, just have a few local people come out and do the job themselves. It's kind of…
995
02:37:14.820 --> 02:37:17.620
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Pretty embarrassing stuff. 996
02:37:18.010 --> 02:37:25.880
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And fairly typical of the way the council just kind of goes round around the houses, talks endlessly about this stuff, and then nothing really happens.

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997
02:37:26.300 --> 02:37:27.370
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So…
998
02:37:27.490 --> 02:37:42.219
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: embarrassing, you know? Let's focus, and let's not spend a ton of money on exploring ways that the city could possibly do things differently, how everybody else does it, because we're different, or something. Doesn't make a lot of sense. 999
02:37:43.620 --> 02:37:51.080
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Oliver, for your public comment. Next, I'll go back out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment, to please raise your hand virtually. 1000
02:37:52.190 --> 02:37:55.310
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, I'll come back into chambers, if there's anyone in chambers.
1001
02:37:57.780 --> 02:38:06.329
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm wondering if we can get a comment from the Chief, because I think there's some misinformation, regarding the initial graffiti thing.
1002
02:38:06.490 --> 02:38:15.070
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the people who did it were actually arrested. They're now, I think, in the juvenile justice system in some way.
1003
02:38:15.970 --> 02:38:18.709
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Information would be useful. 1004
02:38:20.200 --> 02:38:26.800
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thank you, Laura, for your public comment. Next, I'll go back out to Zoom. If there's anyone on Zoom that would like to make a public comment, please raise your hand. 1005
02:38:27.710 --> 02:38:29.949
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, we'll come back into chambers?
1006
02:38:30.430 --> 02:38:41.990
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Seeing none, public comment is closed. All right, thank you. We're back at the dais, and I alluded to Agenda Item Number 1
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this earlier, but Chief, can you… can you at least speak to what happened with, you know, what we talked about with today?
1007
02:38:42.190 --> 02:38:45.309
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And provide that. What information you can.
1008
02:38:47.710 --> 02:38:52.570
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: In relation to the, graffiti that was deemed to be
1009
02:38:53.580 --> 02:38:56.640
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The causal factor for this agenda item.
1010
02:38:56.840 --> 02:39:02.890
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: There were 4 juveniles that were Apprehended in… within 24 hours.
1011
02:39:03.170 --> 02:39:07.780
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And they were all cited, which is technically an arrest, because they were all charged.
1012
02:39:08.250 --> 02:39:12.599
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then… That then begins a process
1013
02:39:13.090 --> 02:39:18.939
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: as I understand it, into the county's judicial system, which we have zero control over. 1014
02:39:19.050 --> 02:39:24.140
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Where they enter the juvenile probation system. And then from there.
1015
02:39:24.360 --> 02:39:29.439
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's dictated what route they take, whether that be some sort of restorative justice, or…
1016
02:39:29.580 --> 02:39:36.140
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Or whether they get a trial, or whatever it's deemed to be, and there's certain qualifying crimes that meet
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1017
02:39:36.320 --> 02:39:37.960
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a restorative justice 1018
02:39:38.380 --> 02:39:44.730
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: guidelines. And you… and you said that, you know, the question was, tell us more, and you had said. 1019
02:39:44.840 --> 02:39:55.719
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, they're juveniles, you can't tell much more, I mean, right. Probing questions, and I really cannot share any information, any specifics, because they're juveniles, and that's… that's law.
1020
02:39:56.480 --> 02:40:05.960
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Right, so, I mean, just for anyone who needed clarity on… on… on that piece of it, because that was, discussed today, too. Tried to explain that
1021
02:40:06.240 --> 02:40:17.449
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, so, okay, are there any other comments, or… I, I personally, I mean, I don't mind attributing sub-hours to this, I would like
1022
02:40:17.520 --> 02:40:31.819
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: hope that it would be more like 5 hours in this, but that's kind of where I'm at with that, because that's a general agenda item that we typically, you know, bring forward, so that's where I'm sitting with it. I don't know where my colleagues are at, but…
1023
02:40:32.010 --> 02:40:37.260
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Those are my comments, if anyone else has any.
1024
02:40:39.230 --> 02:40:40.689
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Go ahead, Vice Mayor. 1025
02:40:40.830 --> 02:40:49.110
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'd like to see how… These things can be prevented in the first place.
1026
02:40:49.700 --> 02:40:53.019
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So we don't have the problem, you know. So…
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1027
02:40:53.590 --> 02:40:56.729
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I know that's a big leap, but… 1028
02:40:58.650 --> 02:41:01.379
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That's why I like the restorative justice model.
1029
02:41:01.510 --> 02:41:04.470
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because I think it can really help. 1030
02:41:09.410 --> 02:41:12.590
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, and I… and I… actually, I did have a question.
1031
02:41:12.810 --> 02:41:16.830
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: For our city manager, and maybe the police chief, too.
1032
02:41:17.100 --> 02:41:24.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: How many times have you met with Safeway on the specific issue of racism?
1033
02:41:26.820 --> 02:41:41.050
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We have not met with them on this specific issue, and I wanted to address a comment from, Councilmember Zolman. When we did cancel that meeting, they had specifically asked that the Chief be there, so that was the reason why we canceled that meeting.

It wasn't…
1034
02:41:41.220 --> 02:41:47.799
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: because I chose to cancel it, it was because it was a specific ask for them. So, that was why that meeting got canceled.
1035
02:41:47.900 --> 02:41:54.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have reached out to… so we have been meeting with Safeway to discuss the issues as far as the front of the…
1036
02:41:55.000 --> 02:42:12.260
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the issues with the kids hanging out, there's a lot of people in the front of the store that were concerned. Safeway reached out to us. We've had Safeway, Annalie, the Agenda Item Number 1
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police chief, and then the mayor, and so we were meeting… we were meeting with them regularly, like, once a month, to see what we could do to try to deter that.
1037
02:42:12.570 --> 02:42:15.509
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The kids hanging out in the front, that was…
1038
02:42:15.760 --> 02:42:30.489
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: they were… they were claiming that, you know, they were intimidating, and so we've been working with Annalie, again, with the police chief, and again with Safeway. We had been meeting with monthly. We have not been meeting over the summer, because we requested not to meet over the summer because school was not in session. 1039
02:42:30.970 --> 02:42:45.029
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I have not met the… today was the first day that we met. I met with the neighbors. I'm not… I know that the chief has been in contact with them, and trying to keep them informed of what's going on, so we have not met on the racism issue. 1040
02:42:45.170 --> 02:43:01.599
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: with Safeway, but you… you have met with the neighbors. Today was the first day that I met with the neighbors. 2 o'clock. And you too, yeah. Yeah, and it was because they had reached out, and not knowing what, you know, a whole lot about this topic.
1041
02:43:01.720 --> 02:43:08.449
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I knew that we had been meeting with Safeway, about these other issues, and they said they wanted Safeway there, which
1042
02:43:08.570 --> 02:43:11.050
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It turns out the Safeway manager 1043
02:43:11.200 --> 02:43:13.480
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They have a new one again, so… 1044
02:43:13.560 --> 02:43:20.700
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: there's a disconnect there, but the thought was that we could bring them all together, because we had been already working with Safeway, but then, yeah, so…
1045
02:43:20.700 --> 02:43:35.369
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can you make that a priority? So, I've already reached out today. Yeah, we've… Safeway. To Safeway. Bring this issue into the discussion? To try to have the community discussion with the neighbors, with Safeway, and with Annalie. So, I have already reached out.
1046
02:43:36.320 --> 02:43:42.519
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, good. Yeah, and we… and we have contacts with the, the folks who manage all the, like, the… 1047
02:43:43.400 --> 02:43:52.109
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the… I don't know, what's the word? The asset guy, that I brought up? Asset protection? Yeah, asset protection, and like, you know, and they're out in East Bay, and anyways, we have
1048
02:43:52.130 --> 02:44:08.030
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: a rapport with him because he's worked with us in Annalie, which we've had a lot of success with them, so I'm… I… we met today because they specifically asked to, like, bring Safeway to the table, and I'm like, well, we've been meeting with them all this time, but it turns out the manager that we've been meeting with is
1049
02:44:08.660 --> 02:44:15.080
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: you know, moved on to a different store. So anyways, there were just some disconnects there as far as that stuff, but that's what we did today and why.
1050
02:44:15.330 --> 02:44:22.409
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Mayor McLewis, if I could speak to Vice Mayor Maurer's comment about racism and whether we discussed it with Safeway.
1051
02:44:23.240 --> 02:44:30.560
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Can I clarify if you mean, did we discuss racism as… as in, did we discuss racism, or did we discuss the hate crime graffiti with them?
1052
02:44:33.830 --> 02:44:37.899
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: All of it. The graffiti was absolutely disgust with them.
1053
02:44:38.180 --> 02:44:44.769
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So I guess that could be morphed into racism as a definition, but yeah, we definitely discussed that as a collective group.
1054
02:44:45.040 --> 02:44:50.660
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because it was a very concerning incident for us, our community, and for the, the victims. 1055
02:44:50.840 --> 02:44:54.390
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Who saw that and were offended by it? Were the neighbors there?
1056
02:44:54.500 --> 02:44:57.400
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: They were not, because this is a pre-existing meeting.
1057
02:44:57.630 --> 02:45:00.719
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That actually addresses the issues that they were…
1058
02:45:00.860 --> 02:45:14.150
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Having concern with, anyway. You mean the neighbor? You mean some of the people that were here before? Is that what you meant? I'm asking if the victims were there. No, they weren't part of that particular meeting, because this was a pre-existing, long-existing,
1059
02:45:14.500 --> 02:45:21.390
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: monthly meet that we're having, and we're addressing concerns as they come up from month to month. We review the previous month, look at incidents.
1060
02:45:21.680 --> 02:45:30.529
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Any causal factors that we can, trace back, and how we can prevent further things from occurring. And that was obviously a very important incident, and…
1061
02:45:30.880 --> 02:45:40.199
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: part of that topic was how quickly can we get Safeway to cover up any graffiti, because it's offensive and it's also unsightly, if nothing else.
1062
02:45:40.690 --> 02:45:48.239
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So we had… we had some traction with that, and they… they came back and said that they'll endeavor to clean up any graffiti that occurs there within 24 hours, which… 1063
02:45:48.350 --> 02:46:00.550
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: It's actually what the people we met with today, the victims of it, were asking for, so that already exists. So who was at this meeting? It was the police department, Safeway, and Annalee as well?
1064
02:46:00.550 --> 02:46:09.020
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yes, and you're referring to today, or the pre-existing… The one you're just describing? Okay, yeah, we have the Mayor, myself.
1065
02:46:09.070 --> 02:46:11.119
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I believe our city manager? 1066
02:46:11.260 --> 02:46:16.699
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: The superintendent from… The school district, the principal of Annelie.
1067
02:46:17.110 --> 02:46:25.289
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And then a variety of representarepresentatives, rather, from Safeway, loss prevention, to regional managers, local managers.
1068
02:46:25.980 --> 02:46:30.609
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I think that there are a lot of resources that were brought in to try and
1069
02:46:31.010 --> 02:46:42.490
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: meet the community expectations.

And can I just say, according to the… just so you know, the… according to the neighbors that were there today, when we asked them how long the graffiti was on the building, they said, like, 4 to 5 hours. 1070
02:46:42.610 --> 02:46:59.540
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because we were trying to figure out if Safeway was holding up their end of the bargain, because they said they would, you know, try to take care of it within that time frame, and then the neighbors, they actually said it was 4 to 5 hours that it was there. So… So, have you communicated that these steps have already been taken?
1071
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02:46:59.620 --> 02:47:04.780
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To the neighbors, was this communicated to them so they are aware of what's being done? 1072
02:47:04.990 --> 02:47:06.669
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: what's been done with Safeway? 1073
02:47:07.060 --> 02:47:17.450
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the meeting you just described, did you communicate that to the neighbors so they were aware of what's been done? Yes, and that was actually communicated to them
1074
02:47:18.770 --> 02:47:21.689
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: after I received the first email correspondence from
1075
02:47:21.960 --> 02:47:28.839
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: one of the involved parties today on the 3rd of June. She had a reply, a very comprehensive and detailed reply.
1076
02:47:29.150 --> 02:47:31.600
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Within 3 hours of her email. 1077
02:47:31.930 --> 02:47:38.789
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Do you remember the date of the incident when this happened? I don't off the top of my head, but it was probably in May, I'm guessing.
1078
02:47:39.060 --> 02:47:39.800
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
1079
02:47:40.730 --> 02:47:43.800
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: By the time it filtered through and became
1080
02:47:44.220 --> 02:47:48.470
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: an issue for them where they wanted to voice some concern. I think it was later in May, perhaps? 1081
02:47:52.290 --> 02:47:53.680
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Anyone else?
1082
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02:47:55.370 --> 02:48:14.689
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No, I'll go ahead and make the motion to allocate, time for our city attorney to research, the options that we have to deal with the situation, and as Alex sort of said, we seem to have narrowed it down to, restorative op… restorative justice, and
1083
02:48:15.160 --> 02:48:31.730
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: having that research presented, when this is next back on the agenda, which I don't know what agenda a review committee is doing. I'm assuming that they have already allocated time for this at the beginning of September, which I think that's when the residents are thinking.
1084
02:48:31.730 --> 02:48:36.230
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: this is happening back. Can anybody speak to when this is coming back?
1085
02:48:38.780 --> 02:48:45.290
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We spoke that this item, per the meeting today with the neighbors, they wanted this back on the 1st or the 15th.
1086
02:48:45.590 --> 02:48:54.559
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: to bring back a fully vetted staff report with all the options, I'm gonna have to rely on Alex to tell me what date he thinks that's going to be.
1087
02:48:54.940 --> 02:49:11.370
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Of September? Okay, they would be September 1st. Okay. So we'll need to look at the agenda, though, because the September 1st is packed right now. Because we have all those, st.

Vincent de Paul, we have all those different items that are all on there, and it's already
1088
02:49:11.660 --> 02:49:20.039
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Well, to the point where we may… it may not all get heard, so just understand that that might bump one of those items, if that's the priority.
1089
02:49:22.750 --> 02:49:30.520
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, and I… How many hours are we… I heard it was going to take you, Alex, 10 hours, even though we narrowed the issues down.
1090
02:49:30.700 --> 02:49:38.309
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I mean, you have to do the research and then write the staff report. So, together, I think those would go over 5 hours.
1091
02:49:38.420 --> 02:49:42.119
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And so that's why… Okay, so that's the motion for the 10 hours?
1092
02:49:46.620 --> 02:50:04.179
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is anybody else awake? Are my colleagues to second it, or we're not seconding it? I don't know. Second.

Okay, I'm sorry, that was a little, like, blunt, but I was looking at… There's some blunt moments tonight. I'm really finding it a rough, evening. Head in the sand, and is anybody awake? So…
1093
02:50:05.040 --> 02:50:20.079
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I just… Fair, fair point. That's all, like, and I was yelled at earlier… I gotta tell you that. I had this side of the table over here. I just didn't want to second it. And just to overshare, yeah, I was yelled at earlier, before this even started, so, yeah.
1094
02:50:20.360 --> 02:50:21.560
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'm over it.
1095
02:50:24.570 --> 02:50:27.309
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: If there's no further, I will go ahead and call the motion.
1096
02:50:27.450 --> 02:50:40.000
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Zullman moved, and Councilmember Carter second the motion to approve 10 hours for City Attorney time to research legal options in response to the community concerns of the graffiti and the racial mockery associated with the Safeway area.
1097
02:50:40.000 --> 02:50:47.639
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Focusing on the restorative justice model and returning this item to the September 1st City Council meeting.

Councilmember Carter? Yes.
1098
02:50:47.640 --> 02:50:49.040
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Hinton? 1099
02:50:49.260 --> 02:50:50.120
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: No.
1100
02:50:54.170 --> 02:50:57.840
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Zolman? Yes. Vice Mayor Maurer? Yes.
1101
02:50:58.300 --> 02:51:00.199
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Mayor McLewis? No. 1102
02:51:04.870 --> 02:51:12.370
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Motion passes 3-2, with Councilmembers Carter, Zolman, and Vice Mayor Maurer in support, Councilmember Hinton and Mayor McLewis in opposition.
1103
02:51:14.730 --> 02:51:23.359
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, we are moving… Are we not… can I ask… are we not allowed to make a comment after the fact, or… 1104
02:51:24.360 --> 02:51:34.109
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Yeah, I'm sorry, yeah, I think so.

I just want to say, I want to clarify, I voted no on this item because I didn't agree with the 10 hours, and I didn't agree with the date of September 1st.
1105
02:51:35.820 --> 02:51:36.900
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Thanks, Bing.
1106
02:51:37.830 --> 02:51:40.620
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Moving on to number 10… 1107
02:51:40.960 --> 02:51:43.880
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Pardon me, consideration of contribution of
1108
02:51:44.050 --> 02:51:48.260
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Contribution of formation of EIFD and next steps.
1109
02:51:48.850 --> 02:51:58.579
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And that would be… It was requested by Councilmember Carter and Councilmember Hinton, and then responsible department is planning. Do we have them on…
1110
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Zoom, or…
1111
02:52:00.810 --> 02:52:12.920
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We do not have them on Zoom tonight, so we're going to go ahead and have the two council members from the ad hoc present it. We also have Joe, Kosmont in here in attendance as well to answer the questions. Oh, okay. All right.
1112
02:52:13.300 --> 02:52:14.090
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So…
1113
02:52:19.550 --> 02:52:28.529
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: One of the primary reasons to support the EFID, especially right now, is given that we have a lot of infrastructure issues to
1114
02:52:28.650 --> 02:52:30.980
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To, to address.
1115
02:52:31.280 --> 02:52:41.030
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We can allocate money towards infrastructure right now, and a lot of our citizens are saying, like, hey, can the county contribute?
1116
02:52:42.030 --> 02:52:46.240
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: This is the way, this is the mechanism that makes that possible.
1117
02:52:46.370 --> 02:52:57.200
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, we can go ahead and address our infrastructure issues with the help of the county through this. And I think that's one of the strongest things. Basically, the match doubles. 1118
02:52:57.390 --> 02:53:02.460
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, we have a few needs that we need to address.
1119
02:53:02.800 --> 02:53:06.300
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But this will not impact our general fund.
1120
02:53:07.900 --> 02:53:09.929
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Or, or, like, spec… Agenda Item Number 1
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1121
02:53:10.580 --> 02:53:17.819
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Specifically, it, you know, we will… we will pay a little bit out of our general fund, but, from, from the…
1122
02:53:18.280 --> 02:53:27.969
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: allocation of funds. We can either get it back, or we can, you know, recapture money that, the staff time is paying for.
1123
02:53:28.730 --> 02:53:30.820
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That was a bunch of garbage. 1124
02:53:31.650 --> 02:53:41.200
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the general fund is going to take a very light impact for some of the, the loans that we would take out, or the bonds that we take out for infrastructure. The cost 1125
02:53:41.800 --> 02:53:44.700
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Of this process is going to hit the general fund.
1126
02:53:48.030 --> 02:53:56.539
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I'll just say that this replaces, in many ways, the old money cities used to get that was called redevelopment funds.
1127
02:53:56.640 --> 02:54:15.050
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, it allows us to, as Phil said, not impact our general fund at a high level. It allows us to draw a map boundary, specifically, and we were moving this process along when I sat on this committee previously with
1128
02:54:15.270 --> 02:54:22.530
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Councilmember Zullman, but we, put a halt to it for our city of Sebastopol.
1129
02:54:22.550 --> 02:54:40.430
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because we had to focus on our sales tax measure, and so the rest of the 5th District went ahead with an EIFD, and we decided to come back and do our own, and that way we would have discretion over the project that we picked.
1130
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: and not be in competition, basically, with the entire 5th District and different projects that involve that. By creating our own EIFD, we get, as long as the Board of Supervisors would pass it, we get a match. It's a long-term project. 1131
02:54:59.270 --> 02:55:06.449
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: And, it helps us, pay for big infrastructure projects. So,
1132
02:55:06.860 --> 02:55:16.580
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: We're happy to take questions.

We're also happy to have Joe, who's the expert at it, and has done a number of these for other,
1133
02:55:16.780 --> 02:55:29.870
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: other sections, without… within the county, including Santa Rosa, the… the rest of the 5th is moving forward.

I think there's something happening in a district out by… 1134
02:55:30.290 --> 02:55:37.490
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Sonoma, City of Sonoma, in that district. And so there's a number of these, and we would like to create one for Sebastopol.
1135
02:55:42.430 --> 02:55:43.390
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Is that…
1136
02:55:44.540 --> 02:55:53.099
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay, go ahead, Vice Mayor.

Question, the match is… by the county is not guaranteed. They have to vote on it, is that correct?
1137
02:55:53.900 --> 02:56:13.880
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That is correct, but however, everyone that they've been passing, they have been approving. That's been brought to them at this point. So the odds of them approving it, I believe, are high. Is our supervisor, Linda Hopkins, supportive of this? Yes, she is. We've met with her. You're burden of that? We're so. 1138
02:56:13.970 --> 02:56:14.870
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Okay.
1139
02:56:15.510 --> 02:56:21.470
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Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So in the past, when this was discussed the last time, I remember…
1140
02:56:21.660 --> 02:56:37.679
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: the, consultant saying that this would take very little staff time, it was going to be an annual meeting, or something like it was going to require two council members, but that… it really wouldn't require a lot of staff time. But now, it seems like it's a different story.
1141
02:56:37.680 --> 02:56:43.710
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: That it will be requiring staff time, and maybe even that staff would like to be reimbursed. 1142
02:56:43.970 --> 02:56:49.640
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, this… that part of it has me concerned, so can you address that, please?
1143
02:56:51.020 --> 02:56:59.989
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Mary, could you address that part? I do believe the change slightly has to do with that we're not part of the entire 5th District project anymore.
1144
02:56:59.990 --> 02:57:16.609
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: now this is our own EIFD, but could you elaborate? That is my understanding. With the 8 to 10 hours that have been… I've… from the, consultant, he has indicated it's about 8 to 10 hours a week to have city staff doing this. We did have help from the county before, when it was a joint
1145
02:57:16.610 --> 02:57:18.110
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: County City Venture? 1146
02:57:18.200 --> 02:57:23.809
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: But staff would be now responsible for helping to oversee. So my understanding is about a quarter 1147
02:57:24.250 --> 02:57:27.179
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: About a quarter, time of a staff person.
1148
02:57:29.490 --> 02:57:34.680
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So if… through the… it's through the, PFAS as well.

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1149
02:57:34.890 --> 02:57:40.460
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So if the EFID had to pay it back, is the county going to be okay with that?
1150
02:57:42.350 --> 02:58:01.720
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: I have not spoken to the county, so I have not been in the conversations with the supervisor, so… The county's not reimbursing us for this expense to organize and to manage it. The county is only matching our dollar spent. Okay, but do they… are they aware that there may be a request for staff time to pay… 1151
02:58:01.720 --> 02:58:04.160
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: To come… that would come out of that.
1152
02:58:04.380 --> 02:58:08.200
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Because that would affect the… Hot, right?
1153
02:58:08.460 --> 02:58:26.780
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: Not… not to the extent that it's, because it's an insignificant amount towards the bond amount, like, say, if we can borrow, like, $28 million, $230,000 is… is rather negligible. 1154
02:58:27.610 --> 02:58:37.500
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So they are not going to weigh in on that particular aspect, and it's not going to be a critical part of their choice. The county is not paying us back.
1155
02:58:37.850 --> 02:58:43.690
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: for… coming for staff time or organizing an EIFD.
1156
02:58:43.850 --> 02:59:01.639
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: So, but if you… if you think about… I really want to get the numbers on this, because my understanding from working with Bob Leland is that we would be giving away saving, right? Maybe $20,000, $25,000 a year. That incremental part of the property tax would go into this
1157
02:59:01.640 --> 02:59:11.330
Sebastopol Community Cultural Center: savings account, right? And then the county would match it, so that's $50,000. But what is the cost of a quarter-time staff person
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Sebastopol City CouncilSeptember 1, 2026

Sebastopol City Council
September 1, 2026