ACTION:
____________________________
Clerk/Secretary
Department: City Manager Item No: D1
Prepared by: Imelda M. Huerta, Assistant City Manager Meeting Date: August 27, 2024 Approved by: John Conley, City Manager Agenda Location: Discussion SUBJECT: PICKLEBALL COURTS AT THIBODO PARK
RECOMMENDATION: Discuss pickleball courts at Thibodo Park and provide direction to staff.
CORRELATION TO CITY COUNCIL GOALS: Parks & Recreation.
PRIOR ACTION: On August 13, 2024, directed staff to convert the pickleball courts at Thibodo Park to a tennis court, convert Brengle Terrace Park tennis courts 5 and 6 to pickleball courts, and to improve tennis court 1 (Vote: 5-0).
PRIOR PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION ACTION: On July 22, 2024, recommended to the City Council Option 3: Convert tennis court #5 and construct new stand-alone tennis court at Brengle Terrace Park (Vote: 4-0, Abeyta, Loescher, Sterling-Randall abstained).
On January 28, 2019, recommended converting one tennis court to four pickleball courts at both Brengle Terrace Park and Thibodo Park (Vote: 6-0, Halus absent).
STATEMENT ON THE SUBJECT: On August 13, 2024, the City Council directed staff to convert the four existing pickleball courts at Thibodo Park to a tennis court. Councilmembers Contreras and O’Donnell requested the City Manager place an item on a future agenda to discuss postponing the conversion of the existing pickleball courts to a tennis court at Thibodo Park.
FISCAL IMPACT: There is no direct fiscal impact with this discussion.
EXHIBITS:
None.
AGENDA
REPORT
CITY COUNCIL
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION
SUCCESSOR AGENCY
BUENA SANITATION DISTRICT
JOINT POWERS FINANCING AUTHORITY
Directed staff to stay the pickleball court closure at Thibodo Park until appropriate alternative site is located and opened; give adequate public notice when future pickleball location is selected; and adjust hours of play to Monday-Thursday 9:00 am - 8:30 pm, Friday-Sunday 9:00 am - 9:00 pm and Sunday- Saturday 8:00 am - 9:00 pm during the summer. Vote: 5-0
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Joanne Viser
To:
Public Comments
Subject:
D1- Mddeball courts at Thibodo
Date:
Thursday, August 22, 2024 Q 36 58 PM
[Some people who received his message dou't often get email from . Leam why this is important at buys://aka.ms/LeamAboutSende Identification ] Hello,
My name is Joanne Vivier and I have been a Vista Resident for 33 years. Ayear ago I started playing Pickleball. It has been an amazing experience playing a[ my local park with many other community members. Our courts stay clean, safe and fim due to all of us that respect bus community park. When I heard that the Vista City Council wanted to close them and put back a tennis court, I was so upset and disappointed in those members that decided to do this. I am aware that some of the surrounding neighbors have complained. They bought those homes near a park.
So you m a board would remove some coats, based on a few complaints, knowing hundreds of other Vista Residents enjoy base courts. You say that you are adding coats at Brengle Terrace. Do you not know Vista? It's a large area. We need our own courts in Shadowridge. Every time I go to Thibodo, which is twice a week, if not more, there is never anyone playing on the tennis court.
I hope you will reconsider your decision to remove those four existing Picklebab courts.
Thank you for your time.
Joanne Vivier
Vista, CA 92081
D1
From: Sreohame 3oldvher
To: Public Comments
subject: Dl: R Meball Carts B nibido Park
Date: Friday, August D, 202412:32:05 PM
ISome people who received this message donl often get email from I Pam this is important
In July, 2019, Vista was bragging about the installation of four Pickleball Courts using taxpayer money to create a free recreational space in the Shadowridge Community for this increasingly popular sport. Hours were set from 7:00 am to 9.30.pm and even lighting was installed to ensure access to working residents.
As the sport increased in popularity, so did participation on the courts with overflow traffic visible on Lupine Hills. More dollars were spent recently to fix the fences that had become loosened over time.
Fast forward to the present. The game is still widely popular. A large number of voters value this park and its close access to the Shadowridge Community. A petition was organized and currently has over 500 signatures. Clearly these courts are valued.
Rather than spend MORE taxpayer dollars to remove the courts and leave many of your constituents very displeased, let's find ways to mitigate the noise and reach a compromise with our neighbors. Limit the playing hours to 8:00 am - 7:00 pm, well within "quiet hours". Look for noise deterrents. Be open to other ideas and suggestions. And, before you pass a resolution as quickly as you did at the last meeting, please please welcome discussion and a presentation of ideas and compromise. Vista taxpayers do not want their dollars squandered needlessly. Thank you.
Stephanie Goldscher
Vista, Califomia
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D1
From:
Daniel Cmas
To:
Public Comments
Subject:
DS: R ldeball Cour68 Thib0do Park
Date:
Wedr day, August 21, 2024 4 35:20 PM
ISome people who received this message dent often get email from _ I Pam why this is imoortam
Dear Mayor and City Council Members,
I live in Shadowridge and play at the Thibido courts 4-5 times per week. I mostly play after dinner with my family and put the kids to bed 7:30-8, but I also play with my 5 and 12-year- old sons during the day on the weekends.
During the evenings, the courts at Thibido are always fill] and usually between 8-20 people are waiting to play. There is rarely anyone playing tennis. As Mayor Franklin pointed out, pickleball players usually warm up on the tennis courts.
The data presented from placer.ai is interesting but is well known to be unreliable on data like where people live vs. play. Anecdotally, I know nearly all the players during my "dad hours" of play (nights), and nearly every single one is from Vista (with a few exceptions of people from Oceanside/San Marcos).
I can't emphasize enough the value that the Vista community receives from the pickleball courts at Thibido. Placer.ai doesn't report parents with their kids, grandparents with their grandchildren, high school students, senior citizens, ex -athletes staying active, and Vista residents who get most of their social interaction from their pickleball group using and loving Thibido courts.
The demand for tennis courts at Thibido is nearly nonexistent. By contrast, dozens of people use the pickleball courts daily. Converting the pickleball courts to a single tennis court sends the message that the city would rather people not come to Thibido. This may be what the nearby residents would want, and I'm sure there are downsides to living next to a park, but we should work together to find a way to make it a great environment for both the residents and the people who love Thibido park.
This decision should be reconsidered and studied more deeply. Basing building decisions on a single unreliable At report and making rash proposals to shut down parks is different from what sophisticated, well -urn cities do.
Feel free to contact me personally to discuss further, and I hope for a solution that serves Vista residents better,
Daniel Cross
D1
From:
Stephanie Goldscher
To:
Kathy Valdez
Cc:
Corinna Contreras; Dan o"Donnell
Subject:
Vista City Council, did you hear us?
Date:
Tuesday, August 20, 2024 9:11:07 PM
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Dear Vista City Clerk,
Please include the information below as a discussion item on August 27th's Thibido Pickleball Courts topic. Thank you so much,
Stephanie Goldscher
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Begin forwarded message:
From: Stephanie Goldscher >
Date: August 20, 2024 at 8:37:17 PM PDT
To: dodonnell@ci_vista.ca.us
Cc: decision.makers�7a change.org, [email protected] Subject: Vista City Council, did you hear us?
Dear Vista City Council,
I am supporting a petition called "Reverse the Decision to Shut Down The Pickleball Courts in Thbbodo Park Vista" started by Mor Hasson. hops :llwww_ change . org/p/r everse-the-dec i s ion-to-shut-down-the-pleklebal l- courts-in-thibodo-park-vista?utm source=supporter emails_dm You have been identified as a decision maker on this petition so I am reaching out to you for a response_ What is your opinion about this petition? You can respond by replying to this email.
Thanks for reading,
P.S. Check out services for decision makers: https:f/ www.change.orgldecision- makers?utm source=supporter_emails_dm
Stephanie Goldscher
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D1
D1 — Public comment received via phone
8/23/24 - Jennifer Merchat, , called to request the courts at Thibodo be kept open for pickleball. She stated they are used by people of all ages, that there are many benefits to the game and that it provides a sense of community.
D1
/_1a]93hCOM _[818=k1
From:
Len
To:
Public Comments
Subject:
FIT R Ideball Car¢ B Thibodo Park
Date:
Surday, Augurt 25, 2024 9:24 24 PM
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As a long-standing resident of Vista, I feel compelled to express my deep concern over the decision to revert the Thibodo Park pickleball courts back to tennis courts. This decision is not only disappointing but seems to be based on flawed reasoning that does not reflect the true usage and community needs.
Having lived in Vista for over 20 years, and as a frequent visitor to Thibodo Park (4 to 6 times a week), I can confidently say that the survey claiming "Low Resident Usage" of the pickleball courts is highly questionable. In speaking with over 40 regular users at Thibodo Park, I found that 75.5% of them are Vista residents stark contrast to the findings presented by the council. None of these regular users, nor 1, were surveyed, which calls into question the validity of the data being used to justify this decision. I strongly urge the council to release the details of this survey so that we can understand how these conclusions were reached.
Regarding the safety concerns cited due to conflicts with tennis players, this argument appears to be unfounded. The tennis courts at Thibodo Park are sparsely used, to the point where the few tennis players are well-known to the regular community. In fact, many of these tennis players are often waiting to use the pickleball courts. It seems counterintuitive to convert highly utilized pickleball courts back to undemtilized tennis courts when the reverse would better serve the community's needs.
The issue of noise, which has been raised as a potential problem, can certainly be addressed through alternative measures rather than shutting down the courts. With a typical game registering at 59 decibels, the noise level is well within acceptable limits for a neighborhood park. Adjusting the hours of play, as successfully implemented at other parks, could be a reasonable compromise, ensuring that both residents and players are accommodated.
Pickleball has been recognized as the fastest -growing sport in the United States for five consecutive years. It is a unique sport that blends fitness, fun, and social interaction, which has contributed to its widespread popularity. Our city should be embracing this growth by expanding pickleball facilities Father than reducing them. Public courts across the city are consistently filled to capacity, demonstrating a clear demand for more, not fewer, pickleball courts.
In light of these points, I respectfiilly urge the council to reconsider this decision and explore alternatives that better serve the community's needs and preferences.
Sincerely,
Benjamin Powers
Vista Resident
D7
From:
Steve Matsumoto
To:
Public Comments
Subject:
DS:P MeLoll Care; B Thibodo Park
Date:
Sunday, Augut 25, 2024 7:08:D PM
ISome people who received this message donl often get email from I earn why this is moortau
Dear City Council,
I'm writing to express my profound disappointment in the City Council's decision to convert the existing pickleball courts at Thibodo Park into a tennis court.
Unfortunately, I am unable to attend Tuesday's meeting due to a prior commitment, so I'm submitting my comments in writing.
I am a Vista resident of over six years who has lived in North County since 2005.
My family and I regularly play pickleball at Thibodo Park, introduced to the game through Pat Carroll's classes. Its worth noting that Ms. Carroll's contributions to fostering a positive pickleball culture at Thibodo deserve recognition. Her classes have clearly been successful, as many Pat "graduates " continue to play there —an indicator of the Recreation Departments achievement in offering programs that lead to ongoing community use of city facilities.
I previously e-mailed Mike Pacheco who replied with three reasons for the Council's decision to convert the courts. I've seen the text of his e-mail on social media as well, so it seems to be the Council's stock response. I'd like to offer feedback on those points.
1. Low Resident Usage (30% Vista Residents): While I can't challenge the validity of a survey I haven't seen, based on my regular play at Thibodo, this figure seems questionable. Even if accurate, a 30% Vista resident rate among a high total number of players still represents significant local engagement. For example, this morning (8125), about 40 players were at the courts between 8:30 and 11:30, a typical turnout for a Sunday. If 30% were Vista residents, that's 12 locals benefiting from this facility. Meanwhile, during the same period, the adjacent tennis court was occupied only by someone playing fetch with his dog. The City Council now wants to add another tennis court? Doesn't seem to match the relative demand of pickleball vs. playing fetch.
2. Noise concerns from nearby residents: As a former Rancho Buena Vista Little League board member, I'm familiar with addressing noise complaints, which led to restricting late -night games. However, the noise generated by pickleball is unlikely to reach the levels of a Little League game. Additionally, the city controls the timing of court use, with the current 7:00 am - 9:30 pm hours being reasonable for any recreational activity. In a typical neighborhood, these are hours when one might also hear lawnmowers, garage bands, or birthday parties. The noise argument seems overstated.
1. 3.Safety hazards arising from conflicts with tennis players due to the proximity of courts.: As I've said, I've hardly seen the tennis court utilized at Thibido. I don't have access to a usage study as scientifically rigorous as the one that produced the 30% resident pickleball number, but I have never seen someone waiting to play tennis. That is to say that if, on the rare circumstances that the tennis courts are being used, there is not another party, or parties, waiting to play. But lack of demand of tennis aside, please explain the safety risk involved of having the two racket sports adjacent to each other? It seems that there's greater danger from a ball/object coming off the field of play in other the Vista parks. For example, what about the regular pickup soccer games in Shadowridge Park? A soccer ball off the foot of grown man is going do more harm to unaware six -year old near the swings than a whiffle ball bit by a pickleball paddle. What about the disc golf course at Brengle Terrace Park and the proximity of the holes to picnic areas? 180 grams of hard plastic to the face will absolutely wreck your afternoon of hot dogs and watermelon.
It's clear these reasons don'tjustify the decision. The real issue seems to be that, at the August 13th meeting, the Brengle Terrace pickleball community was better mobilized and organized than the Thibodo players. The Council could present this as a net gain of pickleball courts citywide, placating Brengle Terrace advocates.
However, for those of us who live south of 78, it's a loss for sure.
I sincerely hope the City Council reconsiders this decision and explores alternatives that allow the Thibodo pickleball courts to remain. It would be very disheartening to drive down Lupine Hills Drive and see two empty tennis courts, especially when that City property could be used and enjoyed by so many.
Thank you for your consideration.
Steve Matsumoto
From:
Stephanie Wdher
To:
Public Comments
Cc:
Connna Contreras Joe GreenCan O" Doonell' K Ahv Valdez: Kobe Mdendez' Mike Pacheco ConsCalvo' kfin Banklin
subject:
D1: R Ideball Cour68 Thibido Park
Date:
Saturday, AuguR 24, M24 7:M 08 PM
Some people who received this message donY often get email from this is imnortant
Just to clarify, you want only Vista residents to use your "public park" in Vista and by shutting it down, you are completely okay with the fact that Shadowridge and Vista residents will go to neighboring sites (Carlsbad, San Marcos and Oceanside) to play pickleball in their public places and will then probably enjoy breakfast, lunch or dinner and spend money in these neighboring communities — but not in Vista. And this is okay with you, right?
By the way, there is plenty of land to build pickleball courts at the nearby Buena Vista Park which the city owns. This is affords much closer access (and parking) to South Vista residents.
Regards,
Stephanie Goldscher
Vista resident
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From:
Lauren simmer
To:
Stephanie Galdher
Cc:
Public CommentsConnna Con0sra' Joe Green' Kadry Valdez: Mike Pad o Kahe Melerd¢' Dons Calvo' John Franklin
Subject:
Re: D1: Pkldeball Courts at "ilado Park
Date:
Friday, August D, 2024 8:21:41 PM
Some people who received this message don't often get email from Hi everyone,
As long as we are revisiting the discussion about the Thibido pickleball courts, I would like to reiterate something I brought up in the meeting last week with Ms. Contreras and other community members. I mentioned that as a fairly new resident of Vista, I continued to play at St Michael's in Carlsbad, in part because the Carlsbad courts are so much nicer.
The following is my input only and does not reflect opinions of other community members who met with Ms Contreras. They prefer to focus just on retaining the current courts.
In my opinion, the current fencing at Thibido and limited space between courts necessitates illegal serves, and means players can't chase down balls they might have gotten. USA Pickleball is the arbiter of the rules for the sport, and the recommended spacing for each court is 10 feet at the baselines and 7 feet at the sides, for an overall court size of 34 x 64 feet. The four current courts have irregular boundaries, but the current size averages just 28 x 58 feet.
I measured the courts at Thibido, and at the center baselines, the courts are just 54" (4.5 feet) from the baseline fencing that separates the courts. Same for the sidelines: mostly 4.5' at the enter edges and only a total of 70" (less than six feet) between courts, a shared space that is less than half the recommended spacing.
This can be both inconvenient and somewhat dangerous. While I would say players have the responsibility to prioritize safety and simply concede or replay a point occasionally, I was told a player last year broke her collarbone at Thibido falling into a fence.
What to do? Enlarging the court area would be ideal, but in the face of noise complaints, perhaps a better compromise would be to convert four courts into just two, and add a practice wall at the end nearest the parking lot? Perhaps in future, other daylight only courts could then be added in other areas of Thibido?
That's my 2 cents, and thanks for considering additional community input. By the way, at 5PM today, Friday August 23, two pickleball courts were in use (8 players with one waiting), as well as the tennis court (two players).
Kind regards,
Icemen Bummer
Vista, California
On Aug 23, 2024, at 6:49 PM, Stephanie Goldscher
wrote:
The following quote was posted on the internet from
The Coast News on August 22, 2024:
"Brengle Terrace and Thibodo have both hosted pickleball courts since 2019 in response to the sport's rising popularity. The courts have rarely been empty since, and in recent years, players have been clamoring for the city to add more courts due to long wait times for players." I repeat, "the courts have rarely been empty since." That said, you have published that the courts at Thibido have only been used 30% of the time (based on the expensive software you purchased called Placer.ai.) Does this software recognize that this is the hottest summer in many years and pickleball (and tennis) players avoid the heat of the day? Have you done a thorough study throughout all seasons or just this summer? Have you ever ever come to Thibido yourself to talk with any of the players? And, by the way, if you had, you would know that the tennis players (rarely seen) get along just fine with the Pickleballers.
Do not just count on your pricey software to give you the whole picture. Be present! Be there with us! TALK to us! And DO NOT shut us down or shut us up.
Check out this petition: These is your constituency —your voters. Please pay attention:
Stephanie Goldscher
Vista resident
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From:
Stephanie Goklscher
To:
Public Comments
Cc:
Connna Conbenas3ceGreen' Kathy Valdez; Mike Padiem Katie Mele Dods Calm' Mhn Fankbn Subjece
D1: Pkkleball Coudsat ThbiJOPark
Date:
FMay, Augo n, 2024 6:49:40 PM
ISome people who received this message don't often get email from Learn why this is resonant
The following quote was posted on the internet from The Coast News on August 22, 2024:
"Brengle Terrace and Thibodo have both hosted pickleball courts since 2019 in response to the sport's rising popularity. The courts have rarely been empty since, and in recent years, players have been clamoring for the city to add more courts due to long wait times for players."
I repeat,'the courts have rarely been empty since." That said, you have published that the courts at Thibido have only been used 30% of the time (based on the expensive software you purchased called Placer.ai.) Does this software recognize that this is the hottest summer in many years and pickleball (and tennis) players avoid the heat of the day? Have you done a thorough study throughout all seasons or just this summer? Have you ever ever come to Thibido yourself to talk with any of the players? And, by the way, if you had, you would know that the tennis players (rarely seen) get along just fine with the Pickleballers.
Do not just count on your pricey software to give you the whole picture. Be present, Be there with us, TALK to us, And DO NOT shut us down or shut us up.
Check out this petition: These is your constituency —your voters. Please pay attention Reverse the Decision to Shut Down The Pickleball Courts in Thibodo Park Vista
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Stephanie Goldscher
Vista resident
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From:
Jeanne taw auoh
To:
Public Comments
Subject:
Fit R Meball Cars B"ibido Park
Date:
Friday, August 23, 2024 4:43:19 PM
ISome people who received this message donl often get email from _ l Pam why this Is mcortae
To Whom This May Concern:
Pickleball suits all ages. It offers many health benefits, especially for seniors. It improves balance and flexibility, as well as, a boost to mood and mental health.
In this crazy world, we could all benefit from better mental health.
I'm not sure why there is talk of closing the Thibido courts but its probably the noise factor.
Where there is fim, there will be noise. Playgrounds, community swimming pools, soccer fields, basketball courts or baseball fields, these recreational areas are meant for children and adults to play, compete and gather with others in a friendly environment. We need to be respectful of the surrounding residents but instead of closing the courts, maybe other measures could be implemented.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely —
Jeanne
From:
Cliff Burdick
To:
Public Commmis
Subject:
DS: R Heball CWr68 Thibodo Park
Fate:
Today, August D, 2024 3:30:Q PM
ISome people who received this message dent often get email from I earn why this is mrsi
The Thibido pickleball courts have been a core resource in the Vista community for improving the lives of hundreds of people. The courts are continually packed with people playing and waiting to play almost all day long every day of the week. The tennis courts adjacent to them sit vacant during this time, or at best, have pickleball players warming up or waiting to play.
These courts are the only pickleball courts in South Vista without visiting an adjacent city.
You can imagine the surprise for everyone that played there when we learned that the city council meeting intended to discuss expanding the Brengle Terrace courts suddenly shifted to removing the Thibido courts. As I've mentioned in many previous emails, the reasons cited for removing the courts were not only hidden from the public until the meeting, but had many false assumptions about the location data. The only legitimate reason cited was the noise complaints from neighbors, but we (the players) believe the solutions were not fully explored.
Not only is there no sound banner between the tennis and pickleball courts to absorb that sound, but the fences could be higher with a slanted top inward, as is common in many other courts in California, especially near the Monterey area.
If the city doesn't want to explore options at Thibido, we're urging you to please find another solution in South Vista before shutting these down. There are several places that may be suitable, including Green Oaks Ranch, Oak Riparian on the west side where the field is, or the Burlington parking lot.
The game of pickleball is only gaming in popularity every year, and tennis players are moving in droves to play it. It's a game enjoyed by all ages, and building these courts for everyone in Vista will guarantee Vista stays a first-class city for the next several decades.
Thanks
From:
Natalie
To:
Public Comments
Subject:
D1: Pickleball Courts at Thibodo Park
Date:
Monday, August 26, 2024 10:36:12 AM
Some people who received this message don't often get email from . Learn why is important
Please submit my comments to council members regarding the following:
The Vista City Council approved changes to pickleball court locations on August 13, 2024. As a result:
• The existing pickleball courts at Thibodo Park will be converted back to a tennis court.
This decision is based on:
o Low resident usage at Thibodo Park (only 30%).
o Noise concerns from nearby residents, as new standards require courts to be placed in parks that can handle heavy usage and provide adequate separation from residences.
o Safety hazards arising from conflicts with tennis players due to the proximity of courts. New standards recommend that pickleball courts should not be located adjacent to tennis or other sports courts.
• The schedule for such a project is anticipated to be approximately six months. • On August 13, 2024, the City Council directed staff to convert the four existing pickleball courts at Thibodo Park to a tennis court.
• Councilmembers Contreras and O'Donnell requested the City Manager place an item on a future agenda to discuss postponing the conversion of the existing pickleball courts to a tennis court at Thibodo Park
The decision our council made to revert the tennis court back to its original intended use for tennis only is a great improvement for Vista residents & we sincerely thank you.
Please don't delay restoring the Thibido tennis court, especially given 2 courts are being removed for tennis use at Brengle. This leaves tennis players at a deficit in Vista until new tennis courts are added. I would also add that since tennis courts 5 & 6 at Brengle are being converted for pickleball use, despite comments about the issues this causes, please consider removing gates adjacent to tennis courts to prevent pickleballers from constantly walking thru the tennis courts.
Thibido Park tennis courts were not designed to accommodate the very large numbers of pickleball players that are on the courts, especially from around 4pm on almost daily. My family of four tennis players lives in Shadowridge, regularly plays tennis on the Thibido tennis court & decided last year we would not play in the evening any longer due
to the extremely challenging conditions that the pickleball players create for anyone trying to play tennis on the tennis court. It's frustrating that we can't play there in the evening, as one of our children plays competitively & could use practice in evening conditions but sadly it's not worth the frustration we experience at Thibido. In addition, Large numbers of these pickleballers are not Vista residents, instead traveling from cities near & quite far to a small, quaint neighborhood park that was not designed to handle such a large influx of users. They bring with them plenty of noise, distraction, trouble (everything previously mentioned in my comment below), vehicles clogging up the park & Lupine Hills Rd, and belongings which they leave on the courts. The condition of the converted tennis court is bad -clearly pickleball is much harder on the court surface than tennis. The soundproofing barrier installed has created a stifling atmosphere akin to a sauna as it allows no airflow like typically installed wind breaks would. Pickleball shouldn't be played at Thibido given the size of the park, proximity to homes & sports courts.
-Please observe the beautiful facilities at Poinsettia Park. No tennis courts were converted to make way for pickleball. No tennis courts are allowed to be used for pickleball play. Pickleball courts were added and both communities are thriving. Look no further than the nightmare that was created at Thibido Park when a decision to convert a single tennis court into four pickleball courts was put into action. Converting a court meant for a maximum of 2-4 active players to a court used for up to 16 active players plus all of the people waiting has created a disaster. Regularly there are people playing pickleball while: smoking weed, drinking alcohol, playing loud obnoxious music on bluetooth speakers, parking bicycles on the tennis court, harassing tennis players and damaging their personal property on the tennis court, leaving their pickleball gear on the tennis court or the fence disrupting play on the tennis court, constantly walking thru the tennis court to the pickleball courts despite there being absolutely no necessity to do such, standing on the tennis court, moving the tennis court bench closer to the pickleball courts for their convenience, warming up on the tennis court -all of this is being done by pickleball players while tennis players are actively using the tennis court. Pickleball players do not display court etiquette or even polite consideration toward tennis players using the tennis court.
Thank you for your consideration & action to support your local Vista tennis players!
ADD TO PACKET
From:
Mir P chn a
To:
Public Gomaen6
subject:
RN: Age Topic or -RdJe lGwr at Thilmco
Date:
Malay, AuguR 26, 2024 3:% N PM
From: Adele McIntosh
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2024 2:21 PM
To: Mike Pacheco
Subject: Agenda Topic D1- Pickleball Courts at Thibodo
Dear Mr. Pacheco
I am writing to express my strong opposition to the proposed removal of the Pickleball courts at Thibodo Park. Unlike the tennis courts, which are rarely used, the Pickleball courts are consistently full and actively utilized bythe community. While I appreciate the addition of courts at Brengle Terrace Park, losing courts on the west side of Vista would be a significant loss for residents. Please consider keeping the Thibodo Park courts open. If noise is a concern, I suggest a compromise of closingthe courts at 9:00 pm instead of the current 9:30 pm.
Thankyou kindlyforyour consideration
Adele McIntosh
Vista Resident since 2003
D1
From:
To:
Public Comments
subject:
DS: Pkldeball Courts A Thibodo Park
Date:
Tuesday, August 27, 202412:00:OK M
ISome people who received this message don't often get email from _ II earn why this is important
Dear Vista City Manager and Councilmembers,
My husband and I have been playing Pickleball at Thibodo Park for the past 4 years and we, like so many other people, love it there. When we heard that the Pickleball courts would be closed, we were shocked, because without pickleball players, the park would be DEAD. There is an occasional dog walker there, and sometimes four people play tennis, but by and large, the Pickleball community is what keeps this park alive. Today, when we left the park, there was no one on the tennis court, but all Pickleball courts were full (with 16 people), and another 12 people were waiting to work into these courts. We think it would be a terrible shame to shutdown these lovely courts which are so fully used and enjoyed.
The additional courts that are scheduled to be opened in Brengle Terrace are NOT a "quick 10 min drive" from Thibodo, especially during regular traffic! They are across the freeway and past multiple busy lights and frankly, just too far for us to go.
We urge you to reconsider closing the Pickleball courts at Thibodo, in the interest of the community and the life of the park. Itwould be deserted without Pickleball, and a waste of public funds and services.
Sincerely,
Brenda and Chris Guerin
From:
Kathy Valdez
To:
Public Comments
Subject:
FW: Thibodo Park & Pickleball
Date:
Tuesday, August 27, 2024 12:10:07 PM
From: Lyn Van Haght
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2024 12:04 PM
To: Kathy Valdez
Subject: Thibodo Park & Pickleball
You don't often get email from Learn why this is important Hello -
I play both tennis and pickleball, and agree the city needs more PBall courts. I believe that need will be mostly satisfied by taking court 5 at Brengle. This will mean tho that tennis will be Very difficult to play on court 6, and on courts 1-4. The noise from the PBall courts is incredibly loud- the tick tick tick of the ball, plus so many people speaking and laughing loudly as they play... Already even on courts 1-4, the noise from the PBall court in the far back is terrible. It
Will be much worse when/if court 5 is changed into a PBall court.
The city's guidelines are as I understand, to locate PBall courts Not near tennis. I wish the city would
Build a PBall courts on the parking lot they eventually said will contain a tennis court, and leave court 5 for tennis.. There are quite a few tennis leagues at Brengle, and courts are needed for those, and for social play.
Now the city said it will change the PBall court at Thibodo back to tennis. I Support this decision. It will create just One place where tennis players can play, without the constant interruption of PBall noise.
Players like Serena and Venus Williams, like so many other top pros, were formed by playing on public courts. Vista needs tennis courts- and not just 5!!! - to keep the sport alive in our city.
I know many PBall players will come to the Council meeting, and few tennis players.
Given the nature of PBall, it's much easier to spread the word about the meeting. We tennis players don't necessarily know each other. But there are several big groups of players who meet at Brengle every Sat and sun mornings to play. , as well as the league teams practicing at Brengle and playing league matches there.
While supporting PBall, I hope you will also support the need for Tennis facilities! Thank you,
Lyn van Haght -Vista resident;
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From:
mdu(field
To:
Public CommentsMike Pachem
Subject:
Pi Meball Thibodo Agenda D1
Date:
Tuesday, August 27, 20241:12:45 PM
ISome people who received this message donI often get email from- I earn why thi� is imoortan
First of all, we thank all of you for your support of pickleball and your recent action relating to the Brengle courts.
I understand you have received some blowback from people who do not want the Thibodo courts relocated.
I say relocated, rather than closed. I think its important to explain that it is a relocation, not a closure, and everyone will benefit from having more courts m one location.
Presently, many players migrate back and forth between the two sites, sometimes on the same day. This will affect more out- of-towners than Vista players.
Brengle will be closer for some and farther for others. That probably evens out.
There will be a greater likelihood of shorter wait times to play. Also, It will be easier to have players play within their own skill level group, which leads to a better experience for all.
For instance, beginners or families with kids could use a couple of courts, so that they are not constantly interfering with, and frustrating more experienced players.
Advanced players could have a designated court, often called a challenge court.
Having 12 courts in one location will also make it possible to hold tournaments that usually need at least 8 courts, still leaving courts available for the general public.
Trawing/mstruction will be easier and might attract more participants.
And of course, neighbor noise and parking complaints should cease at Thibodo.
Have fur
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From:
Flex
To:
Public Comments
subject:
DS:P ldeball Come B Thibodo Park
Date:
Tuesday, Ar9ust 27, 20241:% 12 PM
ISome people who received this message donl often get email from- I earn why this is moortau
I am in favor of keeping Pickleball Courts open at Thibodo Park.
The trees surrounding the courts, provide shade from the sun and the benches are far enough from the courts for immune compromised and suns sensitivity people.
I like to be able to go to the neighborhood park to play, rather driving further to another park or fighting traffic, I want to destress not get stressed.
I like to suggest maybe compromising hours of the park, 8am-8pm instead 7am- 930pm. This way the neighbors surrounding the park get later and earlier quiet time.
Also, opening additional pickleball courts in Vista, not just S. Vista. The players at Thibodo park will be able to go to other courts., this way the noise from Thibodo Park pickleball courts will diminish. If noise is the problem the neighbors are complaining about.
Thank you,
ICMTF.T.9OTIM