Agenda — Temecula City Council, April 25, 2023 (part 7 of 11)

City of Temecula
Community Development Department
Code Enforcement Division
41000 Main Street • Temecula, CA 92590
Phone (951 ) 302-4144 • Fax (951) 694-6487 • www.temeculaca.gov

I IL PENALTY
NOTICE .AND ORDER
CNC Puma Corporation
Brad Landon, Agent for Service
28693 Old Town Front Street Suite 11300
Temecula CA 92590
Re: 28645 Old Town Front Street, Temecula, CA 92590
On June 24, 2022, 28645 Old Town Front Street, CA 92590, was found to be in violation of Section § 17.04.010, (Conditional Use Permit), of the Temecula Municipal Code.

Pursuant to Temecula Municipal Code § 1,24.040 this correspondence shall serve as your official "Notice and Order, to pay a fine of one thousand dollars ($1000.00) for continued violations of the Temecula Municipal Code §

17.04.010. Continuing violations of this ordinance will lead to the daily accrual of Civil Penalties in an amount of up to two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500.00) per day. The City Manager and/or his designee reserves the right to determine the daily amount assessed for any additional Civil Penalties, The factors used by the City Manager and/or his designee to determine the duration and daily amount of the civil .penalties were the past history of warnings and/or citations, and additional evidence. The City Manager and/or his designee reserves the right to determine the daily amount assessed for any additional Civil Penalties.

Please be advised that each failure to comply with the Temecula Municipal Code is also a continuing criminal violation and each violation is a misdemeanor carrying a potential penalty of six months in jail and/or up to a $1,000 per day fine.

Please pay this fine within 30 days of issuance. if you wish to contest this fine you must first pay the fine within 30 days of issuance and then by completing a request for hearing form within 30 days, pursuant to TMC 1.21.

If you have any questions regarding this matter, please contact me at (951) 302-4116 Sincerely,
Tom Cole
Field Supervisor - Code Enforcement Officer
cc: Brian Clements, Building Official
Luke Watson, Deputy City Manager
Jennifer Pelrusis, City Attorney
Amanda Moore, Manager
Norman S Sullivan, Property Manager
NJiyollcmecidri.org\shares%users\ -w, .cole\cot.I=. rlc:ivilpeuaiios: rhet3nnk.94.24.1UN2.022..doc

Page 482 ends

City of Temecula
J-
Community Development Department
Code Enforcement Division
4 1000 Main Street • Temecula, CA 92590
Phone (951 j 302-4144 • Fax (951 ) 694-6487 - www,tcmec(ilacii.gov

CIVIL PENALTY

NOTICE AND ORDER
CNC Puma Corporation
Brad Landon, Agent for Service
28693 Old Town Front Street Suite 9300
Temecula CA 92590
Re: 28645 Old Town Front Street, Temecula, CA 92590
On June 25, 2022, 28645 Old Town Front Street, CA 92590, was found to be in violation of Section § 17.04.010, (Conditional Use Permit), of the Temecula Municipal Code.

Pursuant to Temecula Municipal Code § 1.24.040 this correspondence shall serve as your official "Notice and Order" to pay a fine of one: thousand dollars ($1000.00) for continued violations of the Temecula Municipal Code §

17.04.010. Continuing violations of this ordinance will lead to the daily accrual of Civil Penalties in an amount of up to two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500,00) per day. The City Manager and/or his designee reserves the right to determine the daily amount assessed for any additional Civil Penalties.

Please pay this fine within 30 days of issuance. If you wish to contest this fine you must first pay the fine within 30 days of issuance and then by completing a request for hearing form within 30 days, pursuant to TMC 1.21.

If you have any questions regarding this matter, please contact me at (951) 302-4116 Sincerely,
Tom Cole
Field Supervisor - Code Enforcement Officer
cc: Brian Clements, Building Official
Luke Watson, Deputy City Manager
Jennifer Petrusis, City Attorney
Amanda Moore, Manager
Norman S Sullivan, Property Manager
llciryoRemcrula.nrglshnrislusers\"ron1.C'olc1C'OL.tiTlcivilpena�ies."fhel3ank �)5.25J111+l2(122.dnc 1095

Page 483 ends

city of Temecula
Community Development Department
Code Enforcement Division
41000 Main Street • Temecula, CA 92590
Phone (951( 302-4144 • Fax (951) 694•6487 • www.temecLitaca.gov

CIVIL PENALTY
NOTICE AND ORDER.

CNC Puma Corporation
Brad Landon, Agent for Service
28693 Old Town Front Street Suite #300
Temecula CA 92590
Re: 28645 Old Town Front Street, Temecula, CA 92590
On July 1, 2022, 28645 Old Town Front Street, CA 92500, was found to be in violation of Section § 17.04.010, (Conditional Use Permit), of the Temecula Municipal Code.

Pursuant to Temecula Municipal Code § 1.24.040 this correspondence shall serve as your official "Notice and Order" to pray a fine of one tUausanct r:lollars ($1000.00) for continued violations of the Temecula Municipal Code §

Please be advised that each failure to comply with the Temecula Municipal Code is also a continuing criminal violation and each violation is a rnisderneanor carrying a potential penalty of six months in jail and/or up to a $1,000 per day fine.

If you have any questions regarding this matter, please contact me at (951) 302-4116, Sincerely,
Tom Cole
Field Supervisor - Code Enforcement Officer
cc: Brian Clements, Building Official
Luke Watson, Deputy City Manager
Jennifer Petrusis, City Attorney
Amanda Moore, Manager
Norman S Sullivan, Property Manager
'Aci ryn ficnu.culti.arg\sh;u eslU,crs`; I'om.Cola\COI,I ; flaivt I pannries.1'liea3;+nk.9b.01 J UL2072.�1oc

Page 484 ends

City of Temecula
Community Development Department
Code Enforcement Division
41000 Main 5trec.,t • 1t^rnecula, C'A 92590
Phone (951) 302-4144 • Fax (951) 694-6467 - www,temeculaca.gov

CIVIL PENALTY

NOTICE N RDE
CNC Puma Corporation
Brad Landon, Agent for Service
26693 Old Town Front Street Suite #300
Temecula CA 92590
Re: 28645 Old Town Front Street, Temecula, CA 92590
On July 2, 2022, 28645 Old Town Front Street, CA 92590, was found to be in violation of Section § 17.04.010, (Conditional Use Permit), of the Temecula Municipal Code.

Pursuant to Ternecula Municipal Code § 1.24.040 this correspondence shall serve as your official "Notice and Order" to pay a fine of one thousand dollars ($1000.00) for continued violations of the Temecula Municipal Code §

17..04.010. Continuing violations of this ordinance will lead to the daily accrual of Civil Penalties in an arnount of up to two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500.00) per day. The City Manager and/or his designee reserves the right to determine the daily amount assessed for any additional Civil Penalties.

If you have any questions regarding this matter, please contact me at (951) 302-4116.

Sincerely,
Tom Cole
Field Supervisor - Code Enforcement Officer
cc: Brian Clements, Building Official
Luke Watson, Deputy City Manager
Jennifer Petrusis, City Attorney
Amanda Moore, Manager
Norman S Sullivan, Property Manager
1\ciryoftemecula.orgsLareslLsers' Pom.( iile�C(?1.f-:rlciviIpeonties.Thel3ntik 97.02.IU1.2022.dor. 1097

Page 485 ends

City of Temecula
J
Community Development Department
Code Enforcement Division
41000 Main Street - Temecula, CA 92590
Phone. (9S 1) 302-4144 • Fax (951) 6946487 • www,temec:ulac i.gov

CIVIL PENALTY
NOTIC.E. AND ORDER
CNC Puma Corporation
Brad Landon, Agent for Service
28693 Old Town Front Street Suite //300
Temecula CA 92590
Re: 28645 Old Town Front Street, Temecula, CA 02590
On July 15, 2022, 28645 Old Town Front Street, CA 92590, was found to be in violation of Section § 17.04.010, (Conditional Use Permit), of the Temecula Municipal Code.

Pursuant to Temecula Municipal Code § 1.24,040 this correspondence shall serve as your official "Notice and -Order" to pay a fine of one thousand dollars ($1000.00) for continued violations of the Temecula Municipal Code §

17.04.0,10, Continuing violations of this ordinance will lead to the daily accrual of -Civil Penalties in an amount of up to two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500.00) per day. The City Manager and/or his designee reserves the right to determine the daily amount assessed for any additional Civil Penalties.

The factors used by the City Manager and/or his designee to determine the duration and daily amount of the civil penalties were the past history of warnings and/or citations, and addltional evidence. The City Manager end/or his designee reserves the right to determine the daily amount assessed for any additional Civil Penalties, Please be advised that each failure to comply with the Temecula Municipal Code is also a continuing criminal violation and each violation is a misdemeanor carrying a potential penalty of six months in jail and/or up to a $1,000 per day fine.

Sincerely,
Tom Cole
Field Supervisor- Code Enforcement Officer
cc: Brian Clements, Building Official
Luke Watson, Deputy City Manager
Jennifer Pelrusis, City Attorney
Amanda Moore, Manager
Norman S Sullivan, Property Manager
`AwtyoRein=h.e rbAsl muesNLlwrATom.Cule\COt.F-ileiviIpewitics.Thel3ank 98.I5.1U1..2022.doe

Page 486 ends

City of Temecula
F41
unity Development department
nforcement Division
Main Street v Temecula, CA 92590
Phone (951 ) 302-4144 • Fax (951 j 694-6487 • www.temeculaca.gov (� I I L PENALTY

NOT ICE AND ORDER
CNC Puma Corporation
Brad Landon, Agent for Service
28693 Old Town Front Street Suite #300
Temecula CA 92590
Re: 28645 Old Town Front Street, Temecula, CA'92590
On July 16, 2022, 28645 Old Town Front Street, CA 92590, was found to be in violation of Section § 17,04,010. (Conditional Use Permit), of the Temecula Municipal Code.

Pursuant to Temecula Municipal Code § 1.24.040 this correspondence shall serve as your official "Notice and Order" to pay a fine of one thousand (Dollars ($1000.00) for continued violations of the Temecula Municipal Code §

17.04.010, Continuing violations of this ordinance will lead to the daily accrual of Civil Penalties in an amount of up to two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500.00) per day. The City Manager and/or his designee reserves the right to determine the daily amount assessed for any additional Civil Penalties.

The factors used by the City Manager and/or his designee to determine the duration and daily amount of the civil Penalties were the past history of warnings and/or citations, and additional evidence, The City Manager and/or his designee reserves the right to determine the daily amount assessed for any additional Civil Penalties.

Please pay this fine within 30 days of issuance. If you wish to contest this fine you must first pay the fine within 30 days of Issuance and then by completing a request for hearing form within 30 days, pursuant to TMC 1.21.

If you have any questions regarding this matter, please contact me at (951) 3024116, Sincerely,
Tom Cole
Field Supervisor - Code Enforcement Officer
cc: Brian Clements, Building Official
Luke Watson, Deputy City Manager
Jennifer Petrusis, City Attorney
Amanda Moore, Manager
Norman S Sullivan, Property Manager
\\ciryollemecula.orglshares\llscis\'I'um.('oki�ta)L1.i'1'`,civilperiaiies: fhel3ank.49, IG111L.20).'1,.dac

Page 487 ends

EXHIBIT D
1100

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ZIP THIRD INVESTMENTS, LLC
(201034010087)
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PrtncipolAddress 3055 WILSHIRE BLVD. SUITE
1010
LOS ANGELES, CA 90010
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1010
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4971509
I

NORMAN S SOLOMON
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1104

OAH Judge's Order Denying Property Owner's Motion for
Continuance and Motion for a Prehearing Conference - Zip Third Investments, LLC's
1105

Page 492 ends

In the Matter of:

THE BANK,

BEFORE THE

OFFICE OF ADMINSITRATIVE HEARINGS

STATE OF CALIFORNIA
OAH No. 2022051021

ORDER DENYING PROPERTY
Respondent. OWNER'S MOTION FOR

CONTINUANCE AND MOTION

FOR A PREHEARING

CONFERENCE

PROCEDURAL BACKGROUND
On August 26, 2022, the Office of Administrative Hearings (OAH) received a motion for a continuance of the hearing by the property owner and purported permit holder for the conditional use permit (CUP) at issue in this hearing, ZipThird Investiments, L.L.C. (ZipThird)'. The basis for the motion for a continuance is that ZipThird received insufficient notice of this hearing and the underlying violations that give rise to the basis for the City's revocation of the CUP because the City only served the notices of citations on the property tenant, The Bank, and failed to properly notify the property owner of those violations.

ZipThird asserts that only through a public records act request did it receive some of the underlying citation documents from the City as recently as August 17, 2022, but the property owner is unsure if this is the entirety of the underlying bases for the City's revocation of the CUP. Also, ZipThird is currently in the process of eviction of the tenant, The Bank, but was previously unable to do so because of a pending bankruptcy proceeding. ZipThird argues that the CUP violations will be addressed when the tenant, The Bank, is evicted from the property thereby preventing any further violations of the CUP. On this basis ZipThird request a continuance of the hearing. Additionally, in its motion ZipThird requests a prehearing conference "to determine questions regarding the conduct of the hearing." ' The only respondent listed in the Request to Set the hearing for the revocation of the CUP is The Bank, with Amanda Moore, owner, and additional notice sent to Craig Puma and Brad Landon. It is unclear if any of those entities or individuals are the holder of the CUP at issue in this hearing because none are the owner of the property. The property owner, ZipThird, asserts that it is the holder of the CUP. If so, then ZipThird, and not The Bank, would be the real parry in interest in this matter and should be named as a respondent.

However, documents provided show that the application for the CUP was filed by The Bank with contact of Craig Puma and the property owner was listed as Maureen Licata.

Accordingly, clarification of which person or entity is the current CUP holder is essential to this matter.

Page 493 ends

On August 29, 2022, ZipThird also filed a Request for Prehearing Conference wherein ZipThird requested a prehearing conference pursuant to California Code of Regulations, title 1, section 1026, as well as alternative dispute resolution. The basis of the request is the same assertion that ZipThird was not "effectively notified" of the pending revocation and therefore excluded from "OAH procedures such as discovery," and ZipThird "wishes to confirm the procedures for each parry's participation and to suggest possible stipulations." Additionally, ZipThird also requested "alternative dispute resolution." On August 29, 2022, the City filed its opposition to ZipThird's motion for a continuance of this matter. In its opposition the City asserts that ZipThird has had notice of the underlying violations of the CUP and has received copies of the civil penalty letters related to those violations since August 2021. Additionally, the City contends that because ZipThird has had notification of the recommendation that the CUP be revoked since July 5, 2022, ZipThird has had at least 57 days of notice prior to the hearing, which is more time than is allowed under the Temecula Municipal Code (TMC) section 17.03.085. The City asserts that ZipThird has not established good cause to continue the hearing. The City provided no position regarding the request for a prehearing conference.

On August 29, 2022, attorneys for respondent The Bank, Amanda Moore owner, and CNC Puma Corp (hereinafter collectively referred to as The Bank) filed its opposition to ZipThird's motion to continue the hearing and request for a prehearing conference. In its opposition respondent The Bank argues that ZipThird's efforts to evict The Bank from the property are unrelated to this hearing, which involves the revocation of the CUP. The Bank contests that any violations of the CUP have occurred. The Bank also denies that ZipThird has not been provided with proper notice of the alleged violations of the CUP and asserts that ZipThird has had notice of those violations since 2021. The Bank also opposes a prehearing conference in this matter on the basis that it is not timely, and "there is no legal basis supporting the argument for a continuance on these grounds."

THE MOTION FOR A CONTINUANCE
The primary basis for ZipThird's motion to continue this matter is the argument that it has had improper notice of the underlying violations of the CUP giving rise to the revocation recommendation at issue in this matter. However, both the City and respondent The Bank dispute that assertion and have provided evidence that ZipThird was provided notice of those violations at least as early as August 2021. Notably, even in the supporting declarations of ZipThird's attorney, ZipThird admits that at least one letter dated April 13, 2022, was delivered to ZipThird's address of record, but "was not provided to Norm Soloman himself." Regardless, as set forth in the TMC section 17.03.085, only 45 days of notice of the revocation are required prior to the hearing, and in this case ZipThird has had well over 57 days of notice. Furthermore, ZipThird's assertion that it is working to evict the tenant in order to prevent any further violations of the CUP does not constitute good cause to continue the hearing, particularly because prevention of future violations of the CUP does not address any already existing underlying violations that occurred, which is the asserted basis to revoke 1197

Page 494 ends

the CUP. ZipThird's assertion that it needs additional time to review the documents, evict the tenant, and work with the City to prevent any future violations do not constitute good cause to justify a continuance of the hearing. Accordingly, ZipThird's motion to continue the hearing is denied.

REQUEST FOR A PREHEARING CONFERENCE
ZipThird's request for a prehearing conference was made pursuant to California Code of Regulations, title 1, section 1026, which is a regulation promulgated under the authority of the California Administrative Procedure Act (APA), which generally governs the procedures for the conduct of matters before the Office of Administrative Hearings. However, the current hearing at issue in this matter is not governed by the APA, but instead, the authority for conducting this hearing is set forth explicitly in the TMC section 17.03.085. Accordingly, ZipThird's reliance on procedures as set forth in the California Code of Regulations for this particular matter is misplaced. Notably, the TMC does not provide any authority for setting a prehearing conference or for setting any alternative dispute resolution options. Instead, the procedural requirements for this hearing are set forth exclusively in the TMC.

Additionally, while ZipThird has had well over 57 days of notice regarding this hearing, it waited until two days prior to the first day of hearing to request a prehearing conference in this matter. Accordingly, ZipThird's request for a prehearing conference is untimely. ZipThird's request for a prehearing conference or alternative dispute resolution is denied.

IT IS SO ORDERED.

DATED: August 30, 2022
WI -a D Nye--per[dyJ
DEBRA D. NYE-PERKINS
Administrative Law Judge
Office of Administrative Hearings

Page 495 ends

DECLARATION OF SERVICE
Case Name: The Bank OAH No.: 2022051021
I, Zenobia Akindipe, declare as follows: I am over 18 years of age and am not a party to this action. I am employed by the Office of Administrative Hearings. My business address is Emerald Plaza, 402 West Broadway, Suite 600, San Diego, CA 92101. On August 30, 2022, I served a copy of the following document(s) in the action entitled above:

ORDER DENYING PROPERTY OWNER'S MOTION FOR CONTINUANCE AND

MOTION FOR A PREHEARING CONFERENCE
to each of the person(s) named below at the addresses listed after each name by the following method(s):

Thomas J. Callaway, Esq.
43537 Ridge Park Drive
Temecula, CA 92590
Via E-Service
Tani call away(t)veri zon .net
Jennifer Petrusis
Richards Watson Gershon, LLP
350 South Grand Ave., 37th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90071
Via E-Service
[email protected];
m reer rw law,com
Bran Landon
CNC Puma Corporation
27555 Ynez Road, Suite 110
Temecula, CA 92591
Via U.S. Mail
Elizabeth L. Martyn
2855 E. Guasti Road, Suite 402
Ontario, CA 91761
Via E-Service
md:•tyn1aw2000 rr:aol.com;
[email protected];
[email protected];
[email protected]
Craig Puma
28645 Old Town Front Street
Temecula, CA 92590
Via E-Service
cpumavi(�gmail.com
® United States Mail. I enclosed the document(s) in a sealed envelope or package addressed to the person(s) at the address(es) listed above, and placed the envelope or package for collection and mailing, in accordance with the Office of Administrative Hearings' ordinary business practices, in San Diego, California. I am readily familiar with the Office of Administrative Hearings' practice for collecting and processing documents for mailing. Correspondences are deposited in the ordinary course of business with the United States Postal Service in a sealed envelope or package with postage fully prepaid. [ ❑ by certified 4a1lQ9

Page 496 ends

® Electronic Transmission. Based on a court order or the agreement of the parties to accept service by electronic transmission, the document(s) were distributed to the person(s) by secure electronic transmission (OAH Secure e-File) with a notification and document link sent to the email address(es) listed above.

I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct. This declaration was executed at San Diego, California on August 30, 2022.

Zen*Akr a(r;
Zenobia Akindipe, Declarant
1110
2

Page 497 ends

In the Matter of:

THE BANK

TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING VOLUME I
August 31, 2022
iatinc joncs & A�soc1'.t S
Reporting and Videography
P.J. Pox 1736
Pacific Palisades, California 90272
310.472.9882
1112

STATE OF CALIFORNIA

OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS

DEBRA NYE-PERKINS, ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE
In Re ) OAH Case No.
22022051021
The Bank ) PUBLIC HEARING
Volume I

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Via Zoom Videoconference
Wednesday, August 31, 2022
Reported by:

SHELBY K. MAASKE

HEARING REPORTER
1113

I
VA
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10
101
12 13
14 15
16 17
18 19
20 PAI
Pia
23 24
25 In Re

STATE OF CALIFORNIA

OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS

DEBRA NYE-PERKINS, ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE
The Bank
OAH Case No.
22022051021

PUBLIC HEARING
Volume I
Virtual Transcript of Proceedings, taken
via Zoom Videoconference beginning at 9:00 a.m.
and ending at 4:43 p.m. on Wednesday,
August 31, 2022, heard before Debra Nye -Perkins,
Administrative Law Judge, reported by
Shelby K. Maaske, Hearing Reporter.
www.dilr&f nesassociates.com
310:472.9882
2 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 owl
IV
13 14
15 16
17 18
19 20
21 22
23 24
25 APPEARANCES:

For the CITY OF TEMECULA:

RICHARDS WATSON & GERSHON
BY: JENNIFER PETRUSIS, ESQ.
(Appearing remotely by Zoom)
350 S. Grand Avenue
37th Floor
Los Angeles, California 90071
213-626-8484
[email protected]
For the ZIP THIRD INVESTMENTS, LLC:

COLE HUBER, LLP
BY: ELIZABETH L. MARTYN, ESQ.
(Appearing remotely by Zoom)
2855 E. Guasti Road
Suite 402
Ontario, California 91761
[email protected]
For CNC PUMA CORPORATION:

LAW OFFICE OF THOMAS JAMES CALLAWAY
BY: TOM CALLAWAY, ESQ.
(Appearing remotely by Zoom)
43537 Ridge Park Drive
Temecula, California 92590
951-201-6982
PUBLIC APPEARANCE:

Major Williams
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I N D E X

OPENING STATEMENT

PAGE LINE
Ms.

Petrusis
49 8
Mr.

Callaway
52 3
Ms.

Martyn
53 21
THE CITY'S WITNESSES: PAGE
Watson, Luke
Direct Examination by Ms. Petrusis 57
Cross -Examination by Mr. Callaway 100
Cross -Examination Ms. Martyn 132
Tom Cole
Direct Examination by Ms. Petrusis 140
Cross -Examination by Mr. Callaway 167
Cross -Examination Ms. Martyn 179
Joshua Hephner
Direct Examination by Ms. Petrusis 191
Cross -Examination by Mr. Callaway 210
Redirect Examination Ms. Petrusis 225
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I N D E X (Continued)
THE CITY'S WITNESSES: PAGE
John Carrington
Direct Examination by Ms. Petrusis 228
Cross -Examination by Mr. Callaway 235
Jeffrey Letourneau
Direct Examination by Ms. Petrusis 238

E X H I B I T S
THE
CITY'S

MARKED FOR

RECEIVED
EXHIBITS:

IDENTIFICATION

IN EVIDENCE
1 -
Temecula
Municipal
22 64
Code
Section

17.03.085
2 -
Temecula
Municipal
22 64
Code
Section

17.03.010
3 -
Temecula
Municipal
22 64
Code
Section

17.03.090
4 - Minor Conditional 22 68
Use Permit Application
5 - DH Resolution 23 69
No. 08-001
6 - City of Temecula 23 72
Minor Modification
Application
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E X H I B I T S (Continued)

CITY'S MARKED FOR
EXHIBITS: IDENTIFICATION
7 - City of Temecula 23
Letter dated October 15, 2008
8 - Minor Modification
Application for a Permit
9 - City of Temecula
Letter dated February 28, 2012
10 - Administrative
Citations from the City
of Temecula
11 - Civil Penalty and
Notice Order Citations
from the City of Temecula
12 - City of Temecula
Letter to Zip Third
Investments dated
August 20, 2021
13 - Letter dated
May 19, 2022
14 - Letter dated
July 8, 2022
15 - Flier for Summer
Party Kickoff

THE BANK'S
EXHIBITS:

A - Minor Conditional
Use Permit
B - Minor Modification
Application
C - Minor Modification
Application
23 23
901!
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26 26

MARKED FOR

IDENTIFICATION
27 27
27 www.diInt esassociates.com
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RECEIVED

IN EVIDENCE
73 77
OZ'?
165
162
MW

RECEIVED

IN EVIDENCE
I

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lei
1W
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E X H I B I T S (Continued)

THE BANK'S

MARKED FOR RECEIVED
EXHIBITS:

IDENTIFICATION IN EVIDENCE
D - Letter dated
28 April 13, 2022
E - Letter dated
28 April 18, 2022
F - Letter dated
28 March 19, 2022
G - E-mails
28 H - E-mails
28 I - E-mails
29 J - Private Security
29 Industries, PSI, Bureau
of Security and
Investigative Services
Document
K - Calls for Service
29 L - Calls for Service
29 M - Calls for Service
29 N - Calls for Service
30 0 - Calls for Service
30 P - Calls for Service
30 Q - Compilation of
30 Citation Information

ZIP THIRD INVESTMENTS' MARKED FOR RECEIVED
EXHIBITS: IDENTIFICATION IN EVIDENCE
AA - Lease Agreement 32
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E X H I B I T S (Continued)

ZIP THIRD INVESTMENTS' MARKED FOR
EXHIBITS: IDENTIFICATION
BB - Minor Conditional
32 Use Permit Application
CC - Minor Modification
32 Application
DD - Minor Modification
33 Application
EE - E-mails
33 FF - City of Temecula
33 Final Conditions of
Approval Permit
GG - E-mail
35 HH - Temecula Code
36 Violation Form
II - E-mails
37 JJ - Letter dated
37 May 5, 2022
KK - Letter dated
38 May 19, 2022
LL - E-mails
38 MM - Code Enforcement
39 Citations
NN - Citations
40 00 - City of Temecula
41 Documents
PP - Bankruptcy Documents
41 QQ - Citation Summary
41 www.di esassociates.com
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RECEIVED

IN EVIDENCE
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E X H I B I T S (Continued)

ZIP THIRD INVESTMENTS' MARKED FOR
EXHIBITS: IDENTIFICATION
RR - OAH Order 42
SS - Notice of Public 42
Hearing
TT - Minor Modification
42 Permit Application
UU - Lease Agreement
42 VV - Declaration in
43 Support of Opposition
of Motion to Dismiss
WW - US Bankruptcy
43 Court Filing
XX - Code Enforcement
43 Document
YY - E-mails
44 ZZ - Temecula Municipal
Code
AAA - Letter dated
44 May 19, 2022
BBB - E-mails
45 CCC - Service Information
45 DDD - Letter dated
45 July 26, 2022
EEE - E-mail
45 FFF - Letter dated
46 August 23, 2022
GGG - Declaration in Support
46 of a Motion for Continuance
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RECEIVED

IN EVIDENCE
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25 E X H I B I T S (Continued)

ZIP THIRD INVESTMENTS'
EXHIBITS:

HHH - Dismissal Order
III - Declaration
JJJ - E-mail
KKK - E-mail

MARKED FOR

IDENTIFICATION
46 46
47 48
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RECEIVED

IN EVIDENCE
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Remote Proceedings; Wednesday, August 31, 2022
9:00 a.m.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I will
open the record in the Matter of The Bank for revocation of a conditional use permit issued by the City of
Temecula. This bears Office of Administrative Hearings
No. 2022051021. My name is Debra Nye -Perkins. I'm am an administrative law judge with the State of California's Office of Administrative Hearings. I am not affiliated
with the City of Temecula. I have assigned to hear this matter today. This hearing is taking place by video
conference on August 31, 2022, at 9:00 a.m.

May I take appearance of counsel for the record,
please, beginning with the City.

MS. PETRUSIS: Good morning, your Honor.

Jennifer Petrusis with for the agency, City of Temecula.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Good
morning.

MR. CALLAWAY: Good morning, your Honor.

Tom Callaway on behalf of the respondent, CNC Puma
Corporation, dba The Bank of Mexican Food.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Good
morning, Mr. Callaway.

MR. CALLAWAY: Good morning.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: Good morning, your Honor.

Elizabeth Martyn and Rick Edwards for Zip Third
Investments, LLC, the permit holder and an additional
respondent here.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. All
right. So as an initial matter -- and I know there was
some dispute about this issue specifically. And I'll move onto the public comment portion in just a moment. I want the attorneys to address the issue for me with regard to who the permit holder is in this particular matter and
what your position on that is. I will start with
Ms. Petrusis.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor. So we
certainly agree that Zip Third Investments, LLC, which is the real property owner where The Bank operates, is one of the permit holders in the sense that the CUP runs with the land. So I'm not going to get into argument or evidence, but you will learn that, initially, there was one property owner, and now there's a different property owner.

So they, essentially, inherited the CUP when they
bought the property. But we also believe -- and this is why we have included CNC Corporation, Craig Puma and, at the time, Amanda Moore -- who, my understanding, she is www.di.-r� ej:nesassociates.com
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now Amanda Lane -- that they also, as the owners and
operators of the restaurant located on that property, have a legal interest in the CUP.

It's not my position to advocate for that. I'll
let them describe what they believe their legal interest is. But, certainly, if we were successful in revoking
this CUP, the restaurant would have -- there would be an effect on the restaurant, and we don't dispute that.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Am I
hearing from you that there are two permit holders here, both the property owner and the restaurant operator?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes. And I don't know if the
legal definition is "permit holder." In the Municipal
Code, we talk about the "applicant." In this case, the
initial CUP was applied for by Mr. Puma on behalf of
CNC Puma Corporation. And then we also talk about the
"permitee." We believe the permitee is The Bank, CNC Puma Corporation. But we do acknowledge that the CUP runs with the land, and so there is a legal interest in the CUP by the property owner.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And that
makes things a little sketchy because a permit holder, as I understand it -- and that is what's used in Temecula
Municipal Code -- is what's at issue here. So I need the definition of who the permit owner is -- or the permit
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25 holder, I should say, as used in those statutes, for this hearing. Because it appears to me that there are two
respondents in the matter, both CNC Puma, operating as
The Bank, and, also, the property owner. Because we are acknowledging that the permit runs and follows the
property; correct?
MS. PETRUSIS: That's right.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

So in that case, do you agree there should be two
respondents in this matter?
MS. PETRUSIS: I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Mr. Callaway, do you have a position on this?
MR. CALLAWAY: We do. We feel that we are the
permit holder. In looking at Municipal Code 17.04.010 -- ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm sorry.

What are you citing?
MR. CALLAWAY: Municipal Code 17.04.010.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

MR. CALLAWAY: The language in there -- there's
no language as to the property owner. The language in
there, and it's used mutually and back and forth, is
"applicant" and "permit holder." We are the only
applicant. We believe we are the permit holder. We make the discretionary decisions to file the permit, and it's www.diQJ� esassociates.com
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up to us to stay in compliance with the permit.

There's some cities that referenced a property
owner, and in Temecula -- I have gone through the codes.

I don't see any reference to the property owner, being, you know, basically, the alter ego or also a permit holder unless they are the actual applicant as well. So we
believe we are the applicant and the permit holder.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, your Honor. Let me say that
we, as the owner of the property, are, we believe, the
permit holder. We agree with Ms. Petrusis that a CUP runs with the land. I think we all agree as to that. I think the confusion here arose because the citations were to the responsible party. The responsible party is The Bank.

There's nothing in the lease document between the
parties, which is part of the record, that make them privy to the CUP, and, as you, your Honor, referenced in your questions yesterday. The application was signed by, and has the first CUP, and has to be signed by the property owner, because it's the property owner who gets the CUP because it attaches to their property.

So we believe -- and I have case citations if it
will be helpful to you. And I can also cite you to our
request for a continuance where we did try to provide a www.difn_'i esassociates.com
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discussion of this to clarify the issue. It seems to me that the question is, you have the permit holder, which is Zip Third, you have The Bank, which is the operator and responsible party.

It seems to be the question legally will come
down to, can the City hold this permit holder responsible for violations of the CUP by their tenant? And we tried to provide you with a little bit of law on that subject in our Notice of Motion. I don't mean to make this more
complicated, but I think your question goes to the heart of the matter here.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And as I
read briefly -- I have not reviewed these documents. I
have not admitted any of those documents into evidence.

Nothing is in evidence at this point. I also just took a cursory look at the actual CUP permit which appears to
hold the property owner liable to some degree, which would also, for anything that happens with regard to the permit, would also indicate that the property owner is also a
permit holder in this case.

Okay. I have the parties' positions on that very
critical issue. I believe, from my personal review of
this, that the permit holder is both the property owner and The Bank, or the company that operates as a restaurant on the property, based on my information. I believe those www.diesassociates.com 16
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25 are the proper respondents in the case. So we have two respondents in this case from my perspective. Just one
second.

So to let you all know, and as you are aware, I
am recording this hearing in lieu of a court reporter.

But, you will also hear me typing fairly furiously. There is a reason for that. I don't get the luxury of a
transcript here, so my notes are absolutely critical when it comes to actually drafting this decision which is going to take a bit of effort.

So there will be times when I will slow you down
to make sure that my notes are complete, because if they are not complete, that causes me great strife and
difficulty. So just to let you know that as an initial
matter.

Now, the first thing I typically do in these
hearings is mark documents for identification. But as I understand, the Temecula Municipal Code allows for public comment and participation in these hearings. They
typically do a public comment or participation section
prior to the actual substantive part of this hearing.

So I'm going to open that up. If there are any
folks on the line here who would like to provide public comment, now is your opportunity to do so. Please let me know if you are there.
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THE COURT REPORTER: Your Honor, my name is
Shelby Maaske. I am a court reporter here today taking a backup for today's proceedings.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Great. I
still won't get a transcript, but thank you, Ms. Maaske.

I assume that you were retained by the City; correct?
THE COURT REPORTER: Yes. I just wanted to let
you know.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Is there
any public comment?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. Go
ahead.

PUBLIC COMMENT
MR. WILLIAMS: First, I want to say thank you so
much for everyone being on the call today. My name is
Major Williams. I'm a proud resident of Riverside County.

I am a husband, father, business owner, and a former
gubernatorial candidate and was always supporting small businesses and free enterprise.

Today I want to share my support for The Bank in
keeping its status for background music and live
entertainment and the ability to serve alcohol. There are always two sides to the story. I'd like for you to be
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aware that many of the harsh things that were said about The Bank in the location of Old Town is grossly
misrepresenting the overall experience for you to take
experiences there in that particular area.

Also, from my understanding, there's been a false
notion imposed stating that The Bank is unsafe and that employees are criminals. One could conclude those remarks as racism and a clear overreach of crime actually
happening inside The Bank or in its property.

But you wouldn't expect a gubernatorial
candidate like myself, or even Larry Eldridge, to visit anywhere unsafe. You know, we have millions of followers, supporters, and voters, and we would never be
irresponsible by supporting an unsafe location that is not adhering to policies and restrictions and regulations of the city.

But if you were to ask me why I support The Bank
restaurant, the response is, the staff is great, you know, you feel accommodated, the food is delicious, and you feel welcomed by the diverse employees who could potentially be without a job due to the revocation imposed against
The Bank currently today.

The counsel has been -- your Honor, have a duty
of navigating these things, but I hope that you would be able to see through the information that's presented to www.diInt9nesassociates.com 19

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25 you today. And I respectfully ask, don't take
opportunities away from people like single moms that are working and are barely scraping by, especially during
these times that we are all facing.

We are not immune to those or know people who are
going through certain strifes. I hope my words today can add context and clarity in regards to the support that -- (internet interruption) -- others, The Bank for a
destination place for bridal showers and corporate
parties. I just wanted to share my public comment --
(internet interruption).

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Sorry,
Mr. Williams, you are breaking up a little bit.

MR. WILLIAMS: I just want to say thank you so
much for allowing me to share my support of The Bank
during this time, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you,
Mr. Williams.

Any further public comment?
All right. Hearing none, we will move onto the
substantive portions of this hearing. Now, before I allow the parties -- I'm going to allow the parties to have a brief opening statement, but before I do that, what I
typically do, and what I'm going to do today, is I'm going to mark documents for identification purposes only.
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25 Ms. Maaske, I'm going to do this fairly quickly.

If you have any problems keeping up, please let me know because I do this fast. We have a lot of documents to
deal with here. So I'm going to go through these and mark these relatively quickly. I know these are on CaseLines.

I have already downloaded these onto my desktop
so I can mark these specifically. But I'm going to mark the City's documents with numbers, and then have the
Respondent's documents -- I know they have an awful lot of them for Zip Third. And then I have some for The Bank as well.

I am going to mark the City's documents first
with numbers, and then I'll move over to Respondent's
documents after that. Now, I'm also utilizing the Bates numbers that are generated on CaseLines. Those Bates
numbers are in red, and they are located in the
upper -right and lower -right corners of the document. So I'm going to use that to help me with regard to
identification.

So if anyone, as I go through these -- if the
attorneys see that I'm making some sort of
misrepresentation or if I am identifying something
incorrectly, please let me know. I will probably pull you in at times for clarification. Okay. So let's do this
relatively quick. Let me get to my folder.
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The first document I'm going to mark as
Exhibit 1 -- I'm not marking the cover pages, just to let you know -- appears to be portions of the Temecula
Municipal Code. This document is Bates Nos. A-2 through A-4, and appears to be Section 17.03.085.
(Exhibit 1 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I'll mark as Exhibit 2, Temecula Municipal Code Section 17.03.010, and I'll mark that as Exhibit 2. And it is Bates marked A-6 through A-7.
(Exhibit 2 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Next
document, Exhibit 3, is a portion of the Temecula
Municipal Code Section 17.03.090 and is Bates marked A-9 through A-10. I'll mark that as Exhibit 3.
(Exhibit 3 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit 4. It appears to be a
Minor Conditional Use Permit Application. This document is Bates numbered A-12 through A-13. I'll mark that as
Exhibit 4.
(Exhibit 4 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Next
document I will mark as Exhibit 5. It appears to be DH
Resolution No. 08-001. This document is Bates marked A-15 www. difr_'iEPjfnesassociates . com
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through A-27. I'll mark this as Exhibit 5.
(Exhibit 5 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit 6. This is a City of
Temecula Minor Modification Application. This document is Bates numbered A-29 through A-30. I'll mark that as
Exhibit 6.
(Exhibit 6 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit 7, it's a letter from the City of Temecula dated October 15, 2008. This document is Bates marked A-32 through A-38. I'll mark this as
Exhibit 7.
(Exhibit 7 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document is Exhibit 8, this is a Minor Modification
Application for a Permit. It is Bates marked A-40 through A-42. I will mark that as Exhibit 8.
(Exhibit 8 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit 9, the letter from the
City of Temecula dated February 28, 2012. This document is Bates numbered A-44 through A-49. I'll mark that as
Exhibit 9.
(Exhibit 9 was marked for identification.)
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ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit 10, are Administrative
Citations from the City of Temecula. These documents are Bates numbered A-51 through A-85.

Are those all citations, Ms. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

I'll mark that all as Exhibit 10.
(Exhibit 10 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit 11, it appears to be civil penalty and notice order letters. These documents are
Bates numbered A-87 through A-196, and that is a sizable document.

Ms. Petrusis, are those citations or civil
penalty letters?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'll mark
that all as Exhibit 11.
(Exhibit 11 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit 12 is a letter from the City of Temecula, and it is to Zip Third Investments. I don't see a date on this document, but the document is
Bates numbered --
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MS. MARTYN: August 20, 2021, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I don't
see that date actually on the letter, but the letter
itself --
MS. PETRUSIS: I'm sorry, your Honor. If you
look at the footer at the bottom of the letter, that's how we know --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. I
see it now. All right. Well, the document is Bates
numbered A-198, and appears to be dated August 20, 2021.

I'll mark that as Exhibit 12.
(Exhibit 12 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit 13, is a May 19, 2022
letter. This document is Bates numbered A-200 and
continues through A-234.

Is that all of the same letter, Mr. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'll mark
that as Exhibit 13.
(Exhibit 13 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
Exhibit 14 appears to be a letter dated July 8, 2022, and this letter -- I assume there's multiple letters here;
correct?
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MS. PETRUSIS: There is one letter and it has
enclosures. So the actual letter is July 8, 2022, and has enclosures which includes a letter.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Understood. This document is Bates numbered A-236 through A-271. All of that will be marked as Exhibit 14.
(Exhibit 14 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit 15 appears to be a flier for a summer party kickoff. This document is Bates
numbered A-273. I'll mark that as Exhibit 15.
(Exhibit 15 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Ms. Petrusis, do you have any further documents to mark? MS. PETRUSIS: No, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Now I'm going to skip over the Zip Third's documents here because I know they are fairly sizable. I'm going to move to The Bank's documents first. And I'm going to mark
those first, and then I will mark Zip Third's documents.

And, Mr. Callaway, I'm going to skip over the
Notice of Filing. I'm not marking that. That simply is a filing of your exhibits and listing of the exhibits
themselves. Okay?
MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you.
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ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And I'm
going to mark these with letters. So the first document I'm going to mark -- and give me a second here. I have to do this manually. The first document I'm going to mark as Exhibit A, as in apple is a Minor Conditional Use Permit document. That document is Bates numbered D-4 through
D-30.

Is that all the same document, Mr. Callaway?
MR. CALLAWAY: Yes, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'll mark
all that as Exhibit A, as in apple.
(Exhibit A was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit B, as in boy, is a Minor Modification Application. And this document appears Bates numbered D-32 through D-49.
(Exhibit B was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I'll mark is Exhibit C, as in cat. It is a Minor Modification Application. It is Bates numbered D-51
through D-64. I'll mark that as Exhibit C.
(Exhibit C was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit D, as in dog, it is Bates numbered D-66 through D-107, an April 13, 2022, letter. www.diln'i9jTnesassociates.com
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I'll mark that as Exhibit D.
(Exhibit D was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
exhibit I'll mark as Exhibit E, as in Elvis. This letter is dated April 18, 2022, and is Bates marked D-109 through D-147. I'll mark that as Exhibit E.
(Exhibit E was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit F, as in Frank. It is
Bates marked D-149 through D-183. It is a letter dated
March 19, 2022.
(Exhibit F was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit G appears to be e-mails, and these are Bates numbered D-185 through D-187. I'll
mark that as Exhibit G.
(Exhibit G was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit H, as in Harry. It is a set of e-mails. The document is Bates numbered D-189
through D-194. I'll mark that Exhibit H.
(Exhibit H was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit I, also e-mails. This
document is Bates D-196 through D-197. I'll mark that as www.di esassociates.com
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Exhibit I.
(Exhibit I was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Next
document I will mark as Exhibit J. This document is a
Private Security Industries, PSI, Bureau of Security and Investigative Services document. It is Bates D-199, and it's a single -page document. I'll mark that as Exhibit J. (Exhibit J was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit K. It appears to be calls for service, as I understand it. And this document is
Bates number D-200. I'll mark that as Exhibit K.
(Exhibit K was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit L. This document appears to be more calls for service. It is Bates numbered D-201.

I'll mark that as Exhibit L.
(Exhibit L was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit M, as in Mary, is Bates numbered D-202, and appears to be more calls for service. (Exhibit M was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And the
next document I will mark as Exhibit N, as in Nancy, also appears to be calls for service. This document is Bates www.di 9nesassociates.com

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numbered D-203.
(Exhibit N was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit 0, as in Oscar. This
document appears to be more calls for service. It is
Bates numbered D-204.
(Exhibit 0 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit P, is more calls for
service. It is Bates marked D-205.
(Exhibit P was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And the
next document I will mark as Exhibit Q appears to be
citation information or a compilation of information.

This document appears to be Bates D-207 through D-242.
(Exhibit Q was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway, do you have any further documents to mark? MR. CALLAWAY: No, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Hold on just a second here. All right. Now I'm going to move over to Zip Third's documents here in just one
moment. All right. I'm going to move over the Zip Third documents. These are voluminous. I'm going to actually
start these documents with Bates numbered AA, BB, CC,
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25 double letters, just for clarity here. So let me get to these.

Ms. Martyn, are you there?
MS. MARTYN: I'm sorry, your Honor. I'm here.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. So
Ms. Martyn, I'm going to try to do it fairly quickly and note they are a little bit more confusing the way they are put together. It might be beneficial to group documents together and not just keep all the tabs. I know we have 90 under your stacks.

MS. MARTYN: I'm happy to group them if that will
be helpful to you.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I need
them grouped logically because, you know, some documents are admissible one way or the other or not at all. I
don't want to just dump things together.

MS. MARTYN: I think we can do that, your Honor.

I apologize. They are voluminous, but we were rushing to get them in. We overshared.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Let me
step through these first. I'll go through these one by
one, and I'll ask for assistance as I go through them with regard to groupings. Okay?
MS. MARTYN: Okay.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The first
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document I'm going to mark as Exhibit AA, appears to be a lease agreement or portions of a lease agreement. This
document is Bates numbered B-1 through B-27. Is that the correct total document, Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, ma'am.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm
marking that as AA.
(Exhibit AA was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I'm marking as BB, it is a Minor Conditional Use Permit Application. This document is Bates numbered B-28 through B-54.

Is that correct, Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'll mark
that as Exhibit BB.
(Exhibit BB was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit CC. This document is a
Minor Modification Application. It is Bates numbered B-55 through B-72. I'm marking that as Exhibit CC.
(Exhibit CC was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I'll mark is Exhibit DD. This document is a
Minor Modification Permit Application. It is Bates
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numbered B-73 through B-86. I'm marking it was Exhibit
DD.
(Exhibit DD was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit EE. This document appears to be e-mails, and it is fairly voluminous. This is Bates numbered B-87 through B-232.

Is that correct, Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTIN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you.

I'll mark that as Exhibit EE.
(Exhibit EE was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit FF. This document is City of Temecula Final Conditions of Approval Permit document.

It is Bates numbered B-233 through B-239. I'll mark that as Exhibit FF.
(Exhibit FF was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit GG. This document is
e-mail documents. It appears to be a single page. It is Bates numbered B-240. And, actually, before we do that, Ms. Martyn, I notice that there is a number of e-mail
documents on the next few tabs. They appear to be
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clarification?
MS. MARTYN: I think we can eliminate some of
them if you would like to begin at the beginning.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Here's the
problem with elimination, now that they are uploaded
electronically, I can't easily delete these documents. My question for you is, if they are identical, I'm literally going to lump them into the same exhibit as they are
sequential here, if possible. So the first one I have is B-240. Does this continue on?
MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: For how
long?
MS. MARTYN: Let me just take a look at my list.

On my list, it shows as 0024 Exhibit C. It's a document from August 2nd, 2021.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. I
don't know what you're referencing.

MS. MARTYN: Okay. So to read the ones that you
can lump together, the one you just Bates numbered GG,
that would include the next 17 entries.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. So
that would take me to what exhibit in CaseLines, or what tab?
MS. MARTYN: Exhibit C-19.2021.08.08, Temecula
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Code Violation.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: So that is
down to Bates number B-324; am I correct?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, you are correct.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. And
that's at tab 25 for anyone who is curious.

MS. MARTYN: Yes, ma'am.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: So Exhibit
GG includes a long series of e-mail documents. This
document is Bates numbered B-240 all the way down to
B-323. Am I correct?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, ma'am.
(Exhibit GG was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. The
next document I will mark as Exhibit HH. It appears to be a Temecula Code Violation Form. It is Bates numbered
B-324. And for those who are curious, that's at tab 25 in CaseLines. This is a single -page document. So I will
mark that as B-324. Now, I note there are other code
violation documents, Ms. Martyn, after this. Is it
appropriate to lump this together?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, it is, which would be tab 026
and tab 027.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: You said
26 and 27?
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MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. All
right. So that means Exhibit HH are a series of code
violation documents. They are Bates numbered B-324
through B-327; am I correct?
MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

So that is all going to be marked as Exhibit HH. Let me write this down. Okay.
(Exhibit HH was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit II. It is Bates numbered B-328. Now, these also appear to be a series of e-mails.

Are these appropriate to lump together as well,
Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, they are appropriate to lump
together.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And that
would be to the next tab; am I correct?
MS. MARTYN: The next tab it would include 0036
-- actually, yes it would include 0036.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: So that
goes down to B-376; am I correct?
MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. So
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that's fairly sizable. All right. So I will mark as
Exhibit II a series of e-mail communications. These
documents are Bates B-338 through B-376.
(Exhibit II was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: That takes
us to the next documents in order. I will mark as Exhibit JJ, this document appears to be a letter dated May 5,
2022. It is a single -page document. Does it have
attachments?
MS. MARTYN: No.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: There is a
proof of service.

MS. MARTYN: Okay. Then there's two pages.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

This document is Bates numbered B-377 to B-378. I'm going to mark that as Exhibit JJ.
(Exhibit JJ was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

The next document I will mark as Exhibit KK. This a
letter dated May 19, 2022. Does this document have any
attachments? It's fairly sizable.

MS. MARTYN: Yes, there's a number of
attachments.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: This is
Bates numbered B-379 and continues on to B-413. We will www.di Irig Wesassociates.com
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mark that all as Exhibit KK.

MS. MARTYN: Yes.
(Exhibit KK was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Next document I will mark as Exhibit LL. This document
appears to be an e-mail or a series of e-mails. It looks like it flows into more tabs.

Ms. Martyn, can you give me some clarification?
MS. MARTYN: Yes. It can include through tab
0042.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. In
that case, which is a certified mail document. So this is a series of e-mails Bates numbered B-414 through B-429.

And that's going to be marked as Exhibit LL.
(Exhibit LL was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

The next document I will mark as Exhibit MM.

MS. MARTYN: Your Honor, you can continue through
tab 53.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

So this appear to be a list of code enforcement citations; am I correct?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, ma'am.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: So the
documents marked as MM is Bates numbered B-430 and
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continues on through --
MS. MARTYN: It includes and stops as 0053.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And that
continues onto B-447; am I correct?
(Exhibit MM was marked for identification.)
MS. MARTYN: Yes, ma'am.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

The next document I will mark as Exhibit NN, as in Nancy, Nancy. This document appears to be an e-mail, and it's
Bates marked B-448. Does this continue on?
MS. MARTYN: No, your Honor, it does not.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: It
actually does for a few pages, from what I can see.

MS. MARTYN: So we would include those pages and
see if we can --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. So
these are attached to an e-mail?
MS. MARTYN: Yes. So it would be through tab

11.1 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

So this document is Bates numbered B-448 through B-758.

Is that correct?
MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: That's a
sizable document, B-448 to B-758 is going to be marked as www.diIri9nesassociates.com
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in NN, as Nancy, Nancy, a series of citations.

MS. MARTYN: Yes.
(Exhibit NN was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I'll mark as Exhibit 00. All right. This
document is a public records center document.

Ms. Martyn, help me out here with regard to where
this starts and ends.

MS. MARTYN: It's generated by the City, and it
is how they deliver public records request. So I believe that we can include most of these documents -- let me just look -- down to 0067. I'm sorry, your Honor. Let's go to 0063, and then the next grouping will be bankruptcy
document.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm going
to mark as Exhibit 00, record documents from the City of Temecula. These are Bates numbered B-759 through B -- and you said through what tab -- 63?
MS. MARTYN: 0063.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. So
that is a civil order document, so that goes through
B-768.

MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All that
will be marked as Exhibit 00.
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(Exhibit 00 was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document will be marked as Exhibit PP, and this is a
motion to disregard the bankruptcy file; correct?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, ma'am. So the bankruptcy
documents are 0064 through 0068.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. All
right. So this document marked as Exhibit PP is Bates
marked B-769 through B-811; is that correct?
MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

And those are all bankruptcy filings, and I'll mark that as Exhibit PP.
(Exhibit PP was marked for identification.)
MS. MARTYN: Yes, ma'am.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

The next document I'll mark as Exhibit QQ.

MS. MARTYN: It can include tab 69 and 70.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

This document appears to be a citation summary. It's
Bates numbered B-812 and continues on to B-831. And I'll mark that as Exhibit QQ.
(Exhibit QQ was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

The next document I will mark as Exhibit RR.
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MS. MARTYN: That would be the OAH order?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Right.

This is an order to setting deadlines. And this also -- I'll just mark this document by itself. This document is Bates numbered B-832 through B-833. All right.
(Exhibit RR was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document is Notice of Public Hearing. I'm going to mark that as Exhibit SS. And this document is Bates numbered B-834 through B-835.
(Exhibit SS was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit TT. This document is a
Minor Modification Permit Application. It is Bates
numbered B-836 through B-849. And I'll mark that as
Exhibit TT.
(Exhibit TT was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit UU. It is an Air
Commercial Real Estate Association Lease Agreement. This document is Bates numbered B-850 through B-876. And it is marked Exhibit UU.
(Exhibit UU was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
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to be declarations in support of oppositions of a motion to dismiss in this matter. This document appears to be
other findings, I'm assuming, as well, Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: This
document is Bates numbered B-877 through B-958. And I'll mark that as Exhibit VV.
(Exhibit VV was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit WW, and this document
appears to be a filing in the US Bankruptcy Court. And
this document is Bates numbered B-959 through B-971.

MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

I'll mark that as Exhibit WW.
(Exhibit WW was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit XX. This document appears to be a code enforcement document. It is a single -page document.

MS. MARTYN: I believe so, yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: It's Bates
numbered B-972. I'll mark that as Exhibit XX.
(Exhibit XX was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
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document I will mark as Exhibit YY, it appears to be
e-mail documents, and it continues on; correct?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, we can continue on --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I think
this just go B-973 to B-974; correct?
MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'll mark
that as Exhibit YY.
(Exhibit YY was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I'll mark is Exhibit ZZ. This document appears to be portions of the Temecula Municipal Code; correct? MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And it is
Bates marked B-975 through B-978. And that is marked as Exhibit ZZ.
(Exhibit ZZ was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And the
next document I will mark as Exhibit AAA, it is Bates
marked B-979 through B-1013, and it appears to be a letter dated May 19, 2022 with attachments. I'll mark that as
AAA.
(Exhibit AAA was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit BBB, and this document
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appears to be an e-mail document string. It is Bates
numbered B-1014 to B-1022. And I'll mark that as BBB.
(Exhibit BBB was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as CCC. Is that actually part of the previous document or no?
MS. MARTYN: No, it's not.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. The
next document I will mark as CCC, appears to be an
envelope with service information. Is that a single -page document?
MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. It
is Bates marked B-1023. I'll mark that as Exhibit CCC.
(Exhibit CCC was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I'll mark as Exhibit DDD, is a letter dated
July 26, 2022, and it is Bates numbered B-1024 through
B-1025. I'll mark that as Exhibit DDD.
(Exhibit DDD was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit EEE. This document
appears to be e-mail correspondence. It is Bates numbered B-1026 through B-1029. I'll mark that as Exhibit EEE.
(Exhibit EEE was marked for identification.)
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ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit FFF. This document
appears to be a letter dated August 23, 2022, it is Bates numbered B-1030 through B-1031. I'll mark that as Exhibit FFF.
(Exhibit FFF was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit GGG. This document
appears to be a declaration in support of a motion for
continuance. It is Bates numbered B-1032 through B-1038.

I'll mark that as GGG.
(Exhibit GGG was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit HHH. This document
appears to be dismissal order, and it is Bates numbered B-1039 through B-1041. It is marked as HHH.
(Exhibit HHH was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit III. All right. This
document is Bates numbered B-1042 through B-1051, and it appears to be a declaration as well.

MS. MARTYN: Yes.
(Exhibit III was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: The next
document I will mark as Exhibit JJJ. This document is an www. di Irlswesassociates.com
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e-mail string. It is Bates numbered B-1052 through
B-1054.
(Exhibit JJJ was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And what I
hope is the last document, I will mark as Exhibit KKK.

This document appears to be an e-mail string. It is Bates numbered B-1055 through B-1056; Is that correct?
MS. MARTYN: It is correct. And I have a
question regarding one other document.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Sure.

MS. MARTYN: Do I need to request that the
pleadings filed with OAH be included with our exhibits, or are they already included in the record of the hearing? ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: You mean
the pleadings filed? Typically, I do have those as an
exhibit.

But, Ms. Petrusis, did you include that as an
exhibit in yours?
MS. PETRUSIS: No, we didn't include documents
filed with OAH.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Typically,
I only do it if there's an accusation. I don't believe
there's an actual accusation in this case; correct?
MS. PETRUSIS: I'm so sorry, your Honor. I don't
know what you mean by an accusation.
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ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: That's
fine. I don't think there's a need in this case,
Ms. Martyn or Ms. Petrusis, with regard to filing that.

If I have it on file at OAH, I can consider it and I will do so.

MS. MARTYN: Thank you for your patience, your
Honor. I apologize.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Sure.

And, unfortunately, with the electronic issues, it makes things super special. So the last document I have marked for you is Exhibit KKK.

MS. MARTYN: That is correct. Thank you.
(Exhibit KKK was marked for identification.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Now, in that case, that will take us to what I
consider to be opening statements. So I'm going to allow -- the City has the burden of proof in this case, as we all know, so I'm going to allow the City to have an
opening. I will allow Mr. Callaway and Ms. Martyn to have an opening if they would like as well, and then the City can deal with bringing in her evidence with regard to
witnesses. We will deal with documents accordingly as she chooses as well.

When the City is done presenting her case, then
I'll move over to Mr. Callaway and Ms. Martyn to present www.di esassociates.com
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their evidence as well, and that's how we will proceed.

Ms. Petrusis, would you like to provide an
opening statement?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, your Honor. I have a short
statement.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

OPENING STATEMENT
MS. PETRUSIS: So this matter is regarding a
Conditional Use Permit issued by the City of Temecula that permits The Bank restaurant to sell hard liquor and
limited live entertainment subject to certain conditions of approval. The City will present witness testimony and exhibit evidence that demonstrates that the conditions of approval have been violated consistently for a year and a half.

This evidence will show that the real property
owner, Zip Third Investments, has been on notice of these violations since at least August 20, 2021. Specifically, the evidence will show that The Bank has consistently
violated its permitted operating hours which are set forth in the conditions of approval.

Additionally, the evidence will show that The
Bank has violated the City's noise standards, and that
there have been many crimes, assaults, fights, public
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intoxication, and shootings that have occurred at or are connected with The Bank and how it's operated.

A city code enforcement officer will testify that
he has issued, by this point, as of today, at least 35
administrative citations, and at least 108 civil penalty letters. A civil penalty letter essentially carries a
larger fine than an administrative citation.

The code enforcement officer will testify
The Bank is continuing to violate, and that it has not
stopped violating. Additionally, a member of the
Riverside Sheriff's Department, which provides law
enforcement services for the City of Temecula, will
testify about the crimes occurring at and associated with The Bank.

The City will demonstrate that these violations
that have been and are continuing to occur are violations of the conditions of approval for the CUP. Now under the Temecula Municipal Code, the City may revoke a CUP, and that process is set forth in Section 17.03.85, a copy of which is contained in City's Exhibit 1.

The process begins with a notification letter
from the planning director explaining why he is
recommending that the permit be revoked. The City will
present evidence that both the real property owner and the owner and operator of the restaurant, The Bank, were sent www.di esassociates.com 50
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25 this notification letter.

City witnesses will testify that the violations
have continued since the notification letter was sent.

The next step is that a public hearing is held before OAH, this proceeding, to determine whether there are grounds to revoke the Conditional Use Permit.

One of the grounds that the City believes it will
demonstrate in this hearing is that the use here, a
restaurant, is operating in a manner that is inconsistent with any of the conditions of approval.

And then the next step is that the hearing
officer, your Honor, will render a decision and make
written findings of fact and law in support of that
decision. This written decision is automatically sent to the City's planning commission by its municipal code, and the planning commission shall hold a hearing to review the Hearing Officer's decision, and make a determination on whether the CUP, Conditional Use Permit, should be
revoked.

The bottom line is that the City's request in
this proceeding is that the Hearing Officer decide that the CUP be revoked. Thank you, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Just one moment.

Mr. Callaway?
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MR. CALLAWAY: Good morning, your Honor. Thank
you.

OPENING STATEMENT
MR. CALLAWAY: We believe the evidence is going
to show that based on both written evidence and testimony that will be presented today, that there was a Condition Use Permit issued to The Bank that was applied for by
Craig Puma in 2007, and that, basically, took him to a
full liquor license.

We believe the evidence will also show there was
a modification in 2008 to that CUP. That modification
extended the previous operating hours to 2:00 a.m. at the discretion of the manager of the restaurant. In 2012, the evidence will show there's an additional application for another modification of the 2007 CUP. That modification was a request for live entertainment. That CUP was
granted.

We believe the evidence is going to show that the
2008 modification was not superseded by the 2012. That
since 2008, and since 2012, up to the present, the
evidence will show that The Bank has been able to operate up to 2:00 a.m. at the manager's discretion.

Of the violations and citations mentioned, the
overwhelming majority, probably in excess of 95 percent, are based on allegations from the City that The Bank
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violated the CUP both in operating hours and serving
alcohol after hours that were allowed. Again, we believe the evidence will show that was not done. They continue to operate within the parameters of the initial CUP of
2007, as well as the modifications in 2008 and 2012.

As to allegations that The Bank has operated in a
manner involving crime and incidents there, we believe the evidence will show that a significant number of instances attributed to The Bank are not related to The Bank, and that they have, at all times, run a respectable
establishment within the parameters of the CUP and the two modifications.

And based on such, we are going to ask that your
Honor deny the application for a revocation of the CUP and modifications. Thank you.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you,
Mr. Callaway. Give me just one moment here. All right.

Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: Thank you, your Honor.

OPENING STATEMENT
MS. MARTYN: As you know from reading the
Temecula Code Sections cited in 17.03.8.85, you, your
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the City's case except in one important aspect.

Because the property owner has a vested CUP, the
level of notice that is required has not been met by the City. While it is true that some letters may have been
received as copies, they were not served, so there hasn't been sufficient notice to the property owner to justify taking away a valuable CUP because of the tenant's
violations.

Mr. Solomon will be testifying as to what he
received and what he didn't receive and then his eventual conversation in July with Ms. Petrusis which put him on notice. We would also argue that although I know the
municipal code provides for 45 days of notice, because of the special circumstance with a federal bankruptcy here, since CNC Puma Corporation, until last Tuesday, had been in Chapter 11 bankruptcy, that it would be very difficult to meet those time frames and still comply with the
bankruptcy court requirements to lift the automatic stay which would lead to eviction.

It is our position that the CUP does not need to
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Thank you, Ms. Martyn.

All right. With that, Ms. Petrusis, it would be
your opportunity to bring your first witness. However, I think it might be a good time for quick break. We have
been going about an hour and 15 minutes. I think we will take just a 10-minute break here before you take your
first witness, Ms. Petrusis, if that's okay with you?
MS. PETRUSIS: Of course, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And so
what I'm going to do -- just to let everyone know, I'm not disconnecting this Zoom conference during the breaks. I'm keeping everything connected. I am simply going to turn off my microphone and camera and pop back on and we will continue.

And I know this is a little bit challenging in
the sense that I have people joining and leaving the
meeting, and I have to manually bring them into the
meeting. So if that happens -- if you notice someone is out there as I'm busy taking my notes or listening to you, I also have to pay attention to them as well.

I'm going to pause the recording and we will take
a break. It's 10:13. We will pop back on at 10:23, and
we will continue.
(There was a pause in the proceedings.)
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ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: We are
back on after the break.

Ms. Petrusis, your first witness.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor. The City
would like to call Luke Watson.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Watson, are you there?
MR. WATSON: Yes, your Honor, I'm here.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Mr. Watson, I am going to place you under oath.

Could you please raise your right hand?

LUKE WATSON,
called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn by the Administrative Law Judge, was examined and testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: You can
put your hand down. Would you please state and spell your full name for me?
THE WITNESS: My name is Luke Watson, L-U-K-E,
W-A-T-S-O-N.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you,
Mr. Watson.
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Ms. Petrusis.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Mr. Watson, where are you currently employed?
A The City of Temecula.

Q And what is your current position or positions at
the City of Temecula?
A Current position is deputy city manager, which
also includes the responsibility and roles of the
community development director and planning director.

Q So if I understand you correctly, you are also
the planning director for the City of Temecula?
A That is correct.

Q How long have you had that position as planning
director?
A Since 2015, so seven -plus years.

Q Can you walk us through your work history at the
City of Temecula, beginning when you joined employment
with the City?
A Yes, so I joined employment in 2006. I filled
various positions within the organization in the
redevelopment agency, the planning department, all the way from entry level at management assistant, management
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analyst, senior planner --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Watson, I apologize. This is Judge Nye -Perkins. I
want to slow you down a little bit. A quick little note, and I said it to everyone earlier. I am taking my own
notes here, as you can hear from me typing furiously. You are going too fast for me. I want to slow you down just a little. So at entry level, what were your positions?
THE WITNESS: Management assistant, management
analyst, senior planner, and then community development director, which is also the planning director, and then deputy city manager.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Okay. So you have been employed with the City of
Temecula since 2006; correct?
A That is correct.

Q And how long have you been the deputy city
manager?
A For one year -- a little over one year.

Q Okay. And can you just generally describe your
responsibilities and work duties in your position as
deputy city manager and as planning director?
A Right. So as deputy city manager, that carries
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responsibilities for -- along with the city manager and assistant city manager, for the administration of the
entire organization. So that's the full gamut of
operations of the City. And then, more specifically, the planning director and community development director role is responsible for the planning department and responsible for code enforcement, building and safety, housing, and a number of other miscellaneous responsibilities for the
City.

Q Okay. Thank you.

I'd like to turn now to explaining Conditional
Use Permits and the associated processes. So let's first begin with what is a Conditional Use Permit?
A So the Conditional Use Permit is kind of exactly
what it sounds like. It is a special permit that needs to be acquired for a commercial use that carries with it
conditions of approval.

So by contrast, a by -right approval is something
that does not need a Conditional Use Permit. So for
instance, a restaurant that is properly zoned and wants to serve beer and wine does not need a Conditional Use
Permit. But a restaurant that is properly zoned that
wants to add a Type 47 liquor license and have full
liquor, requires a Conditional Use Permit.

The reason there is -- and it's not just that
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25 example, there are others -- drive-thru restaurants.

There's a whole list in the code of uses that have the
potential for specific impacts that need to be addressed for the individual business or site. So that's why we
have the conditional use process so we can address those specific potential impacts of the business through mutual negotiations with the applicant and the City prior to the approval.

Q Okay. Now you mentioned conditions of approval.

What are conditions of approval, generally?
A Yes. So conditions of approval are the specific
requirements that the City has placed on a commercial use whether it be hours of operation, how the site is laid
out, entertainment parameters, anything to kind of
mitigate the potential impacts of that specific use. So it's a way of administering or controlling, in a way, the potential for those impacts to occur through the use of that business.

MS. MARTYN: Your Honor, I apologize. Could you
let Mr. Solomon into the meeting again, please?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I don't
see him.

MS. MARTYN: I just got a text. He is waiting
for the host to let him in.

MS. PETRUSIS: I see him on the screen though.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I think
he's there.

MS. MARTYN: Okay. Thank you. I apologize,
Mr. Watson.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: No
problem.

Ms. Petrusis.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So were you finished with your answer on what are
conditions of approval, Mr. Watson?
A I was, yes.

Q Okay. So now I'd like you to generally explain
the Conditional Use Permit. And, you know, I'm going to also refer to it as a CUP.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, please let me know if
you don't want me to use that acronym.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: It's fine.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So the CUP application process. So if a business
needs a CUP -- wants a CUP, what does that application
process look like?
A The applicant fills out an application and meets
with City staff and submits that application, pays the
fees associated with the CUP, and then there would be some www.di esassociates.com
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time, a few weeks of going back and forth with the
applicant and staff and all of the relevant departments of the city, to work through what specific conditions need to be addressed in the permit.

That is a back and forth. Usually it is very
collaborative with the applicant to get to where the
condition needs to be. And the applicant would then agree to those conditions, and then the application would be
moved forward to -- at a minimum, a director's hearing, and requires a public hearing for the initial CUP to be approved.

Q Okay. And during that initial CUP process, is
there an opportunity for the applicants to challenge the conditions of approval?
A Yes, there is prior to the hearing -- the initial
hearing. That is, like I said, a back and forth.

Usually -- typically, it's very collaborative, and we work with the applicant whatever needs to be worked through to get to the conditions.

If they are still not satisfied with the
conditions that the City is requiring, then they have the opportunity at the hearing to challenge those conditions.

And if the conditions -- if they are still unsatisfied
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25 days of the date of approval.

Q And is that 15-day deadline set out in municipal
code anywhere?
A It is.

Q And do you happen to know the section number --
or I can suggest to you the section number?
A I don't have it memorized.

Q I think it's Section 17.03.090, but I'll let you
decide if you agree with that, though.

A That is correct.

MS. PETRUSIS: Okay. Your Honor, I don't know
how much of a foundation you need me to lay for the City's exhibits which are copies of municipal code sections. I can ask Mr. Watson --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I can take
official notice of code sections if there's no objection.

I really don't need any foundation for that -- for code sections specifically.

MS. PETRUSIS: So then do we move the exhibits
into evidence after the proceeding or --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: You can do
it as you go along. I prefer as you go along so I can
remember what kind of foundation you have had. That's my preference.

MS. PETRUSIS: Okay.
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ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Do you
want to move some now?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, I would like to move into
evidence the City's Exhibits 1, 2, and 3.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I can take
official notice of those unless there's any objections? Hearing none, I'll take official notice of those exhibits 1, 2, and 3.
(Exhibits 1, 2, and 3 were received in evidence.)
MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Okay. Turning now to the modification process.

Does the City have a process that provides that a CUP
holder can modify a CUP?
A We do. You can file a modification application
with the City and work through -- it's a very similar
process to the original CUP process in terms of how that goes with staff; although, the minor modification does not require a public hearing. And the major modification, if that's the application, could require -- it doesn't have to, but it could. So there is a process for that.

Q Okay. And for the minor modification, if it
doesn't go to public hearing, who makes the decision on whether to grant an application for a minor modification of a CUP?
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A That's an administrative approval, so staff
level.

Q Okay. Now, I'd like to turn to the specific CUP
at issue in this matter. I'll start with just asking you some questions about the history of the CUP in this
matter. So can you confirm for us that a CUP was applied for by Craig Puma, and that is at issue in this matter? A Yes, the original Conditional Use Permit was
applied for in 2007 as PA07-0314.

Q Okay. When did the City receive that
application?
A November 7, 2007.

Q And who was the applicant on that application?
A Craig Puma.

MS. PETRUSIS: Now, your Honor, I was going to
ask the witness some questions specifically about
Exhibit 4. Do I need to share my screen, or how do we
share exhibits?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Yes. So
there's a number of ways we can do this. If the witnesses all have access to CaseLines, they can access it
themselves, or if they have hard -copy documents --
whatever is easiest for him. I'm not sure what access
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can pull it up himself. I can direct him to it through
CaseLines, but we don't all need to have it shared on the screen.

MS. PETRUSIS: Okay. I believe Mr. Watson has a
hard copy.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Can you confirm that?
A That is correct.

Q So then I would like you to put in front of you
Exhibit 4, and that's going to be Bates numbered 12. Can you describe to us what this document is?
A This is the Minor Conditional Use Permit. This
is PA07-0314, the original CUP application to upgrade a Type 41 license to a Type 47.

Q And so as far as you can tell, these -- so
Exhibit 4 is only two pages. This is just the application form; isn't that right?
A Yes, this is just the cover application form.

Q Okay. And do you believe it to be a true and
correct copy of the application form submitted by Craig Puma of CNC Puma Corporation?
A I do.

Q So I think you mentioned this earlier, but
according to this application, what was the applicant
specifically requesting by way of a CUP?
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A To upgrade their liquor license to the Type 47,
which is a full liquor license, beer, wine, and distilled spirits.

Q Just to be clear, what is a Type 41 license?
A Type 41 is beer and wine at a restaurant.

Q Thank you. And so a Type 47 liquor license
allows them to then sell distilled spirits in addition to beer and wine?
A That is correct.

Q If a restaurant does not have a Type 47 liquor
license, can they lawfully sell distilled spirits in the City of Temecula?
A No.

Q Did the City grant this application,
specifically, 07-0314?
A The City did grant this application.

Q Okay. And what was the process of granting the
application specific to this application?
A Because it was a Conditional Use Permit and not a
modification of the Conditional Use Permit, it was
required to go to a public hearing, so a director's
hearing.

MS. PETRUSIS: Okay. Before I move on then, your
Honor, I'd like to move into evidence City's Exhibit 4.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
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objection?
Hearing none, Exhibit 4 is admitted.
(Exhibit 4 was received in evidence.)
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q When did the City grant Application 07-0314?
A Public hearing -- the director's hearing on
January 3, 2008.

Q And now I would like you to look at the City's
Exhibit 5, which begins Bates number 15. Let me know when you have that ready.

A I have it.

Q Okay. Can you describe what this document is?
A This is the director's hearing resolution
outlining the approval and the decision of the director's hearing, and includes the final conditions of approval.

Q Okay. And just to be clear, this is for
Application No. PA07-0314; correct?
A That is correct.

Q Do you believe that this exhibit, Exhibit No. 5,
is a true and correct copy of the resolution?
A I do.

Q And the conditions of approval are included in
the resolution; correct?
A That is right.

MS. PETRUSIS: Okay. Your Honor, I'd like to
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move into evidence City's Exhibit No. 5.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections to the admission of Exhibit 5?
Hearing none, Exhibit 5 is admitted.
(Exhibit 5 was received in evidence.)
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Mr. Watson, I'd like you to look at Condition of
Approval, No. 13. And I believe that is on page 24.

A Okay.

Q What does Condition of Approval No. 13 relate to?
A This is the parameters for the hours of operation
for The Bank.

Q Okay. So please help us understand. So the CUP
application is granted subject to these permitted hours -- permitted operating hours. Did I state that correct?
A That's right. So these were the agreed -upon
hours of operation by both the City and the applicant.

Q And can you let us know what those permitted
operating hours are pursuant to this Condition of Approval No. 13?
A Would you like me to read it?
Q Yes, please.

A "Condition 13: Regular hours of operation shall
be as follows: Monday through Thursday, 11:00 a.m. to
10:00 p.m.; Friday, 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.; Saturday, www.diIrl9nesassociates.com

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8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.; and Sunday, 8:00 a.m. to
10:00 p.m. On holidays, including Cinco de Mayo, the
facility shall be permitted to close at midnight. The
sale of alcoholic beverages shall cease at 10:00 p.m.

Monday through Thursday and Sunday. The sale of alcohol shall cease at 11:00 p.m. on Fridays and Saturdays.

To distinguish between ABC requirements related
to the sale, service, and consumption, the consumption of alcohol shall cease no later than one hour after closing, as amended at director's hearing on 01/03/08."
Q Okay. I'd like you to go to page 19 of the same
document, Exhibit 5. Can you describe what this
particular page is?
A This page is the Acceptance of the Conditions of
Approval document.

Q Okay. Who was it that appears that signed this
document?
A It appears to be Craig Puma.

Q And what's your understanding of who Craig Puma
was regarding this CUP?
A That he was the applicant and owner of The Bank.

Q Okay. And when was it signed?
A January 16, 2008.

Q Okay. Therefore, with this approved CUP, The
Bank could now sell distilled spirits subject to the
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25 conditions of approval contained in Exhibit 5. Did I state that correctly?
A Yes, that is correct.

Q Did Mr. Puma ever apply to modify this CUP?
A He did.

Q How many times?
A Twice.

Q Okay. So let's first start with the first one.

When was the first application to modify the CUP?
A The application to modify the CUP was October 9,
IN 11:

Q So I'd like you to look at the City's Exhibit
No. 6, which begins at Bates number 29. Is this the
two -page application form for the first application to modify the CUP?
A It is.

Q And do you believe it to be a true and correct
copy of the application form received by the City from
Mr. Puma?
A I do.

Q How can you tell that Mr. Puma was the one who
submitted this application?
A Because his name is on it, and it appears to have
his signature.

Q And when you say "his name is on it," is that
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Bates number page 30?
A Yes.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, I'd like to move
Exhibit No. 6 into evidence.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, Exhibit 6 is admitted.
(Exhibit 6 was received in evidence.)
MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q According to the application, why was Mr. Puma
applying for a minor modification?
A The request was to extend the hours of service to
2:00 a.m.

Q And what was the outcome of Mr. Puma's
application for this minor modification?
A It was administratively approved.

Q Do you happen to know when?
A The approval letter is October 15, 2008.

Q Okay. Did the City impose conditions of approval
as part of its granting the application for the minor
modification?
A Yes.

Q I'd like you to look at an exhibit, City's
Exhibit No. 7, which is Bates numbered 32.
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A Okay.

Q Is this the document that notified Mr. Puma that
the City had approved his request to modify the CUP?
A It is.

Q And does this document also contain the
conditions of approval for that CUP?
A It does.

Q Do you believe that this Exhibit No. 7 -- I
apologize if I already asked this. Is this a true and
correct copy of the City's letter including the conditions of approval?
A I do believe it to be true and correct.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, I'd like to move
Exhibit 7 into evidence.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, Exhibit 7 is admitted.
(Exhibit 7 was received in evidence.)
MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q According to these final conditions of
approval -- and I should start by saying, where in the
document do the conditions of approval begin? Can you
tell us the Bates number in Exhibit 7?
A You are asking me; right?
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Q Yes.

A Okay. Where the conditions begin?
Q Right.

A What appears to be page 36.

Q Okay. And is there a condition of approval that
addresses permitted operating hours?
A Yes, there are two.

Q And which are those?
A They are Conditions 13 and 14.

Q Okay. And can you please read to us the
Conditions of Approval No. 13?
A Okay. So 13 is "Regular hours of operation shall
be as follows: Monday through Thursday, 11:00 a.m. to
10:00 p.m.; Friday, 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.; Saturday, 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.; and Sunday, 8:00 a.m. to
10:00 p.m."
Q Okay. And then can you also read to us Condition
Approval No. 14?
A Okay. "In the case that the restaurant manager
would like to stay open past the regular hours of
operation stated above, he or she may be permitted to stay open until 2:00 a.m. When this occurs, alcoholic
beverages may be served until 2:00 a.m. as consistent with the provisions of California state law."
Q Okay. So with this approved minor modification
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of the Conditional Use Permit, was the effect that
The Bank now had different allowed operating hours?
A It did.

Q And just to be clear, how many CUPS are we
talking about?
A There's only one CUP.

Q So far, as described, it had been modified once;
correct?
A That is correct.

Q Thank you. So now let's turn to the second
modification. When was the application for the second
modification submitted to the City?
A February 2, 2012.

Q And I'd like you to take a look at City's Exhibit
No. 8 which is Bates number 40.

A Okay.

Q Is this -- it contains three pages, but is this
the application form that was submitted for the second
requested minor modification?
A It is.

Q Can you describe this document? I see that
there's -- something stuck out, and maybe you can explain that.

A Yes. I think the applicant just picked up the
wrong application. They picked up a Conditional or
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Temporary Use Permit Application, which they should have picked up the Minor Modification Application. Fair enough mistake. Staff recognized that, crossed it out, retitled it "Minor Modification," and it's signed by one of our
staff members on February 27, 2012, and we accepted it as a minor modification. No need for the applicant to go
through the trouble of filling out another piece of paper.

Q Okay. I see that on page 41 -- there's also 42.

It appears that page 42 doesn't have certain information included in what that page 41 has. Do you see that?
A Yes.

Q And what is that information as you understand it
to be?
A The missing information is the property owner's
name and then the owner's signature.

Q But page 41 has that complete information?
A It does.

Q So do you, then, believe that Exhibit 8 is a true
and correct copy of the application form received by the City?
A I do.

MS. PETRUSIS: Okay. Your Honor, I'd like to
move into evidence Exhibit No. 8.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
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Hearing none, Exhibit 8 is admitted.
(Exhibit 8 was received in evidence.)
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Mr. Watson, according to the application, what
was the purpose of requesting the minor modification?
A The request on the application is the addition of
a one -person musical addition inside for background music, daily from noon to 10:00.

Q Can you tell who submitted this application to
the City?
A Craig Puma.

Q And how can you tell?
A His name is on the application.

Q And is that on page 41?
A Yes.

Q And what was the outcome of this application?
A This application was administratively approved.

Q Do you know when it was approved?
A February 28, 2012.

Q And I'd like you to look at City's Exhibit No. 9.

Can you describe what this document is?
A This is the approval letter for the application
we spoke of, and it also includes the updated final
conditions of approval.

Q Okay. And do you believe that this is a true and
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correct copy of the City's February 28, 2012 letter,
including the final conditions of approval?
A I do.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, I'd like to move into
evidence City's Exhibit No. 9.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, Exhibit 9 is admitted.
(Exhibit 9 was received in evidence.)
MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q According to the conditions of approval, what
were the allowed operating hours? And I can direct you to page 46 if that is helpful.

A Yes. So it's Condition of approval No. 12 -- and
I'll go ahead and read it.

Q Thank you.

A "Regular hours of operation shall be as follows:

Monday through Thursday, 11:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.; Friday, 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.; Saturday, 8:00 a.m. to 11:00
p.m.; and Sunday, 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. On holidays,
including Cinco de Mayo, the facility shall be permitted to close at midnight.

The sale of alcoholic beverages shall cease at
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of alcohol shall cease at 11:00 p.m. on Fridays and
Saturdays. To distinguish between ABC requirements
related to the sale, service, and consumption, the
consumption of alcohol shall cease no later than one hour after closing, as amended at director's hearing 01/03/08." Q So is it correct to say that the operating hours
changed, then, by way of these conditions of approval?
A That is correct.

Q Or I should say the permitted operating hours
changed?
A That's right, they changed.

Q And just to be clear, how many CUPS are we still
talking about?
A One CUP that has now been modified twice.

Q And do the conditions of approval for the second
modification, the second granted modification, supercede the previous conditions of approval?
A They do.

Q Did the City ever receive an appeal regarding the
conditions of approval that were part of the second
modification to the CUP?
A The City did not.

Q When was the deadline to appeal the condition of
approval?
A 15 days from February 28, 2012.
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Q Have there been any other modifications to the
CUP since 2012?
A There have not.

Q So are the current permitted operating hours for
The Bank, those that are set forth in the conditions of approval for application No. 27-0041?
A They are.

Q Okay. Switching gears a little bit. I would now
like to talk about the city, Old Town Temecula. So first of all, where is The Bank restaurant generally located? A So The Bank restaurant is located in what we
refer to in Temecula as Old Town, which is really
Temecula's downtown area. It's located at the
intersection of Front Street and Main Street.

To give you a sense, it is literally the center
of town. It's at the corner of Main Street and Front
Street. It is the premier commercial intersection in the entire city. It's half of a block away from City Hall.

You can stand on the doorstep of City Hall and look right into the front door of The Bank. So it's generally
located in an extremely prominent location, a marquee
premier location right at the center of Old Town.

Q And you mentioned Old Town -- and this might be a
silly question, but why do we call it Old Town?
A Old Town is historic district. It has its roots
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back to the 1800s, so that's why it's called Old Town.

It's been called Old Town probably before it was old. But we call it Old Town but it's really Temecula's downtown.

Q And can you generally describe the character of
this particular area of Temecula, this Old Town area of Temecula?
A Yes. It's not very big. It's six blocks by
about two blocks. It is a mixed -use environment. The
typical gridded streets. It's very walkable. There's
restaurants, offices, and some residential. It is a
tourist destination. It is a resident destination. I
believe last count was 24 restaurants in the small area.

It is the seed of the City Government, Civic
Center and City Hall are here. All of the cultural
facilities -- the theater, the history museum, the
historical sites are located here. It serves as the
primary location for city special events. And it is
commercial hub -- entertainment hub for the city. The
recreation hub for the city.

We refer to it as the Heart of the City. All
civic activity -- if there is going to be a civic event, it is going to be in Old Town. It is incredibly important to the community's character and culture.

Q And City Hall is also -- would you consider that
part of the Old Town area?
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A Absolutely.

Q Now turning to the reason why we are having this
hearing. First, I would like you to look at City's
Exhibit 13, and that -- let me just skip over to that.

That will begin at page 200.

A Okay.

Q Is Exhibit 13 a true and correct copy of a letter
that you sent on or about May 19, 2022?
A It is.

Q What is the purpose of that letter in the City's
Exhibit 13?
A So the code requires that in order to begin the
revocation process, the planning director has to issue
this notification letter to the parties involved outlining the reasons why and, that, ultimately, the City is moving to revoke their CUP.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, I'd like to move into
evidence Exhibit No. 13
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objection?
Hearing none, Exhibit 13 is admitted.
(Exhibit 13 was received in evidence.)
MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Do you know if the notification letter was
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actually sent to the individuals listed as addressees and CCs on this letter?
A To my knowledge, they were sent to all.

Q Can you list for us the entities or individuals
to whom this notification letter was sent?
A So CNC Puma Corporation, Craig Puma, Amanda
Moore. Those are the front. And then the CCs as well?
Q Yes, please.

A So the CCs are also Zip Third Investments LLC,
attention Norm Solomon, and then Maureen Licata.

Q Starting first with CNC Puma Corporation. What
is your understanding of the role of CNC Puma Corporation as it relates to this revocation matter?
A They're part of the ownership of the
restaurant -- The Bank restaurant.

Q And what is your understanding of what Craig
Puma's role is?
A A member of the ownership of the restaurant, The
Bank.

Q What about Amanda Moore's role?
A It's not entirely clear. I believe she's a
member of the ownership, but also the management of the restaurant -- daily management as well.

Q What is your understanding of the role of Zip
Third Investments LLC?
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25 A That is the real property owner.

Q And regarding Zip Third Investments, which
address was your May 2022 letter originally sent to?
A It was 28645 Old Town Front Street.

Q Is that the address of where The Bank operates?
A Yes.

Q So that's the actual address of restaurant;
correct?
A That is correct.

Q Do you know if the May 2002 letter was ever sent
to Zip Third Investments at a different address?
A I do.

Q And then how do you know that?
A Because I saw it, and I know that we sent it.

Q Okay. Well, let me ask a better question. I'd
like to turn to Exhibit 14, and that begins at page 236.

Can you describe what this document is?
A This is a letter from you, Jennifer Petrusis, to
Mr. Solomon, and it's a notice pursuant to the code that the planning director has recommended that the Conditional Use Permit be revoked.

Q Okay. And what is the address for Mr. Solomon on
this letter?
A It's 3055 Wilshire Boulevard No. 1010,
Los Angeles, California 90010.
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Q Okay. And is your May 19, 2022 letter included
as an enclosure with this July 8, 2022, letter?
A It is.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, I'd like to move into
evidence Exhibit No. 14, please.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, Exhibit 14 is admitted.
(Exhibit 14 was received in evidence.)
MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So please describe for us why you are
recommending that the CUP be revoked?
A Well, a couple of reasons. First, the consistent
and ongoing violation of the hours of operation of over more than a year, numerous violations of the City's noise ordinance, which is also a violation of the conditions of approval, and then, lastly, or generally, a pattern of
numerous assaults and batteries, public intoxication, and other disorderly conduct as well as serious violent crime that has been associated with and taken place on the
premises.

Q So let's first start with that first category,
the hours of operations violations. How did the City
first become aware that it believed The Bank was violating www . di r_�li(a j t .nesassociates . com
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its permitted operating hours?
A I was made aware by the police department and
code enforcement.

Q Do you remember about when you were made aware of
that?
A Summer of 2021, in about that time frame.

Q Okay. And what did the City do when they learned
that there could be an hours of operation violation at The Bank?
A What the City always does in terms of code
enforcement -- we have a very well-worn philosophy for
code enforcement, and that is that we are not there to
cite or take a heavy hand. We first talk with the
owners -- talk with the business owners and try to educate them and make sure that we are all understanding what the rules are and what the conditions are and work
collaboratively to begin with.

That is certainly what took place here with the
code team, with the police department, as well as numerous other members of the fire department as well as building and safety. So that was what we did first. And then, of course, we don't move directly to citations. There's a
number of weeks that go by.

We are looking for voluntary compliance, and if
we don't get it, then we issue notice of violations.
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These are not citations. These are just official notices that the City is documenting the violations of the code or your conditions.

And that will typically go on for some time as we
are trying to work with them and be business friendly to get them to come into compliance with the conditions of approval and code. And if that doesn't work, then we move to administrative citations, which are citations, but they are of lower amount -- $50.00, $150.00, $250.00 is the
escalation on those.

That will go on, again, for some time as we work
to gain compliance. And if that doesn't work, civil
penalties, which is up to a thousand dollars per violation per day, a maximum of a thousand per day, I believe. And that's, essentially, what we have had to do, and it's been ongoing for well over a year now.

Q And are you aware of a letter that code
enforcement sent to Zip Third Investments in August
of 2021?
A Umm...

Q I can point you to the exhibit if that's helpful.

It's the City's Exhibit 12.

A Yes, this is from Tom Cole, our code enforcement
supervisor.

Q Okay. And according to this letter in
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Exhibit 12, who was the letter -- what was the letter -- I'm sorry. Who was the letter addressed to?
A It was addressed to Zip Third Investments LLC.

Q And according to the letter, what is the address
that was used on the letter?
A 3055 Wilshire Boulevard Suite 1010, Los Angeles,
California 90010.

Q And according to the letter, was it sent to any
particular person's attention?
A It was sent to Norman S. Solomon's attention.

Q Okay. As far as you know, has The Bank complied
with the permit hours of operation since the City first started its enforcement action?
A Not to my knowledge, no.

Q And just to be clear, when I'm talking about the
enforcement action, let's use as the City actually sending out administrative citations. So has The Bank complied
with its permitted hours of operation since the City
issued citations?
A Not to my knowledge, no.

Q Has Mr. Puma or anyone associated with The Bank
submitted an application to modify the hours of operation? A No.

Q Or at least not since the previous minor
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A That is correct.

Q Has anyone from Zip Third or associated with Zip
Third submitted an application to modify the hours of
operation?
A No.

Q Why do you believe that the hours violations
support revoking the CUP?
A Well, I mean, as I stated earlier, the conditions
of approval are set in a specific way to mitigate the
potential negative impacts of the use. I think we can all understand that alcohol, specifically hard alcohol, brings with it potentially negative impacts, particularly as the night goes on. So the hours are set specifically to
mitigate that.

Much of the activity -- the negative activity,
the criminal activity, the fights, the drunkenness, things of this nature, have taken place after the business was supposed to be closed per the conditions of approval. And this has been a pattern that has gone on for well over a year. And that's really kind of the matter here is much, not all, but much of the problems that the City is
experiencing and the community is experiencing is
happening after the business is technically supposed to be closed. So that's why I think that those are egregious
violations that need to be addressed. And that's why I
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25 think they support revocation.

Q And how do you know about the criminal
activities, the effects on the neighborhood, why these are happening -- or how these are happening after the
permitted operating hours? How do you know this
information that you just testified about?
A So starting way back, probably, late 2020, the
City established what is called the Metro Team in order to effectively enforce our entertainment district. The City set aside ten officers, specifically sheriff officers, to have a beat in Old Town and only Old Town.

That was followed, shortly after that, after
violations were starting to get noticed, with what was
called the Metro -Plus Team, which includes code
enforcement, building safety, and fire inspection
personnel. So that team, all week long, particularly the weekend, nighttimes, does what we call "arch -to -arch
sweeps" at the north entrance and south entrance of Old Town. That's what we call "arch to arch."
They go through and sweep the entire area, visit
all of the businesses, and are looking for specific code violations and condition of approval violations that have produced voluminous information about activities in Old Town, and that's where I have received all of that
information. That includes the Metro -Plus Team which
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Q Okay. And is your opinion that under the
Temecula Municipal Code -- and I'll refer you specifically to Section 17.03.085, which is City's Exhibit 1 -- but it authorized revocation of the CUP in this matter?
A It does.

Q Now, turning now to the noise violations. Can
you generally describe what you meant about the noise
violations or, I think you mentioned violations of noise standards?
A Yes. So the permissions in the conditions of
approval for background music during dinner at a specific hour of the day, what has been experienced is, you know, DJs, very loud speakers pointed into the intersection on many, many occasions.

So the noise level has exceeded the noise
ordinance and also the conditions of approval. That has created significant impacts to the surrounding businesses.

It's an outdoor dinner environment. It's a pedestrian
environment. There is a lot of activity on the street,
and the music being played that loud, the amplified sound being played that loud, is an impact to the other
businesses in the area. We have received many complaints over the past months asking us for help in dealing with www.di esassociates.com
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that problem.

Q And do you believe that the noise violations
constituted a violation of a condition of approval for the CUP?
A I do.

Q And I'd like to direct you to Exhibit 9, page 49.

A Okay.

Q No. 28-C. Can you read for us that condition of
approval, please?
A Yes. "Disorderly house. Licensees may not
permit their licensed premises to become a disorderly
house. A disorderly house is a licensed outlet on or off sale that, A, disturbs neighbors with noise, loud music, loitering, littering, vandalism, urination, or defecation, graffiti, et cetera; and/or, B, has many ongoing crimes inside such as drunks, fights, assaults, prostitution,
narcotics, et cetera. The licensed premises include the parking lot. Section 25601 BP 316 PC."
Q Do you believe that the noise violations at
The Bank constitute a violation of that particular
condition of approval?
A Yes, I do.

Q Do you know if the City ever issued citations
regarding the noise violations?
A They have, yes. The City has.
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Q Did anyone from The Bank ever reach out to you to
discuss the citations for noise violations?
A Not for noise violations, no. Not that I recall.

Q Let's go back to the hours of operations. Did
anyone from The Bank ever reach out to you specifically to discuss the hours of operations violations?
A Yes. Craig Puma, I believe, contacted me via
e-mail, if recall, some time ago -- maybe a year ago or so, as well as Amanda Lane. This was during the time when they were -- they didn't think the hours were right, and they were asking us to clarify the hours. They wanted to potentially modify the CUP if that's what it took to get the hours back to 2:00 a.m. We had -- I think I had one conversation with each of them about that, again, some
months ago, but nothing ever followed up on.

Q And do you mean by that there wasn't ever an
application to modify that was submitted?
A That is right.

Q Do you remember generally explaining to them what
the current permitted hours were?
A Yes.

Q Turning now to the criminal activity that you
mentioned before that is one of the bases for your
recommendation that the CUP be revoked. So you gave us a list for certain crimes that have occurred at or near The www.di esassociates.com
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Bank. I want to get into specifics though.

Can you describe for us specific instances or
incidents -- crimes that have occurred at The Bank's
premises or near to The Bank such that you believe that they're connected to The Bank that have been particularly concerning to you?
MS. MARTYN: Objection. Does Mr. Watson have
personal knowledge of that?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I believe
he's testified that he's been receiving reports from
police department personnel with regard to crimes, so I'll allow the question. I'll overrule the objection.

MS. MARTYN: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Proceed.

A So among many different kinds of incidents, there
are a couple that are particularly concerning, and
obviously so. The first was in November of 2021, which
was the first of two shootings associated with patrons of The Bank. I believe it took place in the parking lot
behind The Bank immediately after they closed the doors in or around 2:00 a.m. and a man was shot in the leg.

Luckily, no one was killed.

And then the second, unfortunately, there was
another shooting, I believe, in January of 2022, who, I www.di esassociates.com
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believe, was an employee of The Bank that was shot and
killed right on the doorstep of The Bank, and two other people were severely injured in that shooting inside
The Bank.

So there are many others not as severe as that,
but those are very, very concerning to the City for
obvious reasons. And, I mean, a murder on their front
doorstep is a serious situation.

Q And just to kind of give some context to this,
how many shootings have happened in Old Town Temecula,
let's say, since you started at the City?
A I know of -- so I've been at the City for 17-plus
years, and I know of two other incidents in that 17-year span.

Q Okay. So then two out of the four shootings that
have happened in the past 17 years have happened at or
near The Bank?
A That is correct.

Q Okay. And moving onto other crimes and incidents
that are particularly concerning to you. Other than these shootings, can you describe what those are?
A Numerous fights, brawls that have broken out.

Just recently, maybe a month and a half ago at this point, there was -- The Bank closed at or around 2:00 a.m.

Again, in the same parking lot behind The Bank, there was www.di esassociates.com
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The police department was right on the scene.
near the Murrieta Creek not knowing there was 50-foot fall that would be on the other side of that, and he felt down in the creek and broke both of his legs. The fire
department had to call out the ladder truck and had to do a high -angle rescue off the side of the creek off the side of the bridge.

So considerable City assets were tied up in
dealing with that. So, I mean, it's been -- that's
indicative. That's a recent one, but there's been public urination, vomiting, general disorderly conduct, that has been just a hallmark of The Bank's operations over the
last year -plus.

Q And this might sound like a silly question to
you, but why does this matter to the City? Why is it
concerned about these incidents?
A Well, the City has a duty to public safety, and
the City has a duty to ensure not only their physical
safety but their economic viability of a very important commercial downtown. And these things cannot be ignored.

The City has a duty to act, to protect not only
its residents, but the visitors, its employees, and
business owners and property owners. This has been
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25 ongoing for some time, and it has gotten to the point where we cannot do nothing. We had to do this. This was not a light decision by the City. The condition is
serious, and that's why we chose to revoke.

Q Okay. And maybe you can explain to us why you
think that the crimes that you have generally described in your testimony are somehow connected to The Bank and how it operates?
A Well, overserving is obviously taking place. You
know, the security personnel there, to our knowledge, are not professional security personnel. PD has informed the City that they believe that the security personnel there are actually, on many occasions, instigating or escalating things. That goes right to the heart of their operations.

And just their general lack of concern for the
conditions of approval for the work that the code
enforcement team has done and PD has done to work with
them to get them into compliance. It's just gotten to
that point.

Q Regarding this information about overserving, how
did you receive that information, or why do you believe that there was an overserving issue?
A Well, because the people that come out of there
are drunk and disorderly. There's vomiting, public
urination, there's fights -- everything I have already
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25 mentioned. And that's what PD and code have witnessed and expressed to me. So that's how I understand there to be overserving there.

Q And in case I haven't asked this question yet
before, I just want to make sure I do. Do you believe
that the criminal activity that you have testified about is a violation of Condition of Approval No. 28-C?
A I do.

Q Regarding all of the violations, it's your
understanding that the City has issued administrative
citations; is that right?
A That is right.

Q And has the City issued civil penalties?
A That's right.

Q And is your information that the City has sent
copies of the civil penalties to Zip Third Investments? A That's correct, they have been sent to Zip Third.

Q Do you have -- I'm not asking for a specific
number, unless you know. Do you have a general sense of how many, all told, violations and civil penalties have been issued regarding violations at The Bank?
A I don't know the exact number because the
violations are racking up every weekend, but it's well
over 100.

Q Okay. Has the City of Temecula singled out The
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Bank for enforcement action?
A No. As I mentioned before, the City established
the Metro Team and the Metro -Plus Team to do sweeps of all of Old Town regularly, weekly. There have been other
violations at other places, and the City is addressing
those as they come up. So, no, the City did not establish a ten -man Riverside Sheriff's unit to just go after The Bank.

MS. PETRUSIS: I don't think I have any further
questions, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Before we start cross-examination of Mr. Watson, I think it would be a good time for a quick break just to give our court reporter a break. And just to let everybody know
before going off the record, I'll start with The Bank's attorney, Mr. Callaway, and then I'll move over to
Ms. Martyn for cross-examination of Mr. Watson. Okay? So let's go off the record.
(There was a pause in the proceedings.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Back on
the record after the break.

Mr. Watson, do you understand you are still under
oath to tell the truth?
THE WITNESS: I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.
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Cross-examination, Mr. Callaway.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Mr. Watson, good morning. My name is Tom
Callaway. I'm the attorney for CNC Puma Incorporated
doing business as The Bank. I want to kind of go back and start addressing the original Conditional Use Permit from 2007. You were previously, by city counsel, directed to Exhibit 5. Do you still have that in front of you?
A I do.

Q If you could just take a look at that. I have a
few questions. Just so you know, I'm on Bates page A-20, which is City of Temecula Final Conditions of Approval.

Do you have that?
A Yes.

Q At the top it says, "Project description." Can
you tell me what that is for?
A It describes the project.

Q And who fills that out?
A City staff does.

Q Okay. You had said earlier that this Conditional
Use Permit required another public hearing or director's hearing. Can you tell me in what situation a director's hearing is used?
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25 A Let me make sure I'm on the right one here. So
this is PA 07-0314?
Q Correct.

A The original CUP?
Q Correct.

A And your question is about the director's
hearing?
Q Yes.

A So code requires that a CUP go to a public
hearing, so that's why a director's hearing, which is a public hearing, was held.

Q And who is typically present for a director's
hearing?
A The planning director presides over the
director's hearing, and the public is allowed to come.

It's a public hearing. Staff is there that's been working on the project as well as the applicant and any of the
applicants's representatives.

Q And if you go to Section 11 of the general
requirements, it indicates there that the director's
hearing was held on January 3rd; correct?
A I'm sorry? What section?
Q Section 11 of the general requirements, down to
page A-24.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: You mean
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THE WITNESS: I'm not -- I'm not sure.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway, did you mean A-23?
MR. CALLAWAY: A-23, correct.

THE WITNESS: City's Exhibit 5?
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Correct.

A Page 24?
MR. CALLAWAY: My 23 looks identical to 24 with a
cross out.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

THE WITNESS: That's right.

MR. CALLAWAY: So it is on both 23 and 24. I'm
directing him to 24 the page without the cross out.

THE WITNESS: Okay. 24. I'm there.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q So just confirming, there was a director's
hearing related to this Conditional Use Permit, and that occurred on January 3rd; correct?
A That's my understanding.

Q Do you have a recollection of being present for
this hearing?
A I was not the director in 2008.

Q So you are not one of the staff that would have
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25 been there?
A No.

Q Going to page A-26, Section 28. Are you there?
A Uh-huh.

Q In the middle of the page it says, "An alcohol
review board has been scheduled for Wednesday,
December 12, 2007." Do you know what the purpose of that is?
A I believe -- I do not know what that is. I don't
know what that's for.

Q Okay. How about on the following page, Section
E, it states, "An alcohol review board will convene with the applicant on Wednesday, December 12, 2007." Do you
know the purpose of that?
A I don't. But I believe this is associated with
Alcoholic Beverage Control.

Q Okay. Going back -- I'm going to go back in the
same exhibit, back to page A-15.

A Okay.

Q Just to confirm, Section A, that the application
was received, or the initial CUP, on November 7, 2007;
correct?
A That is correct.

Q And the application was considered and approved
on January 3, 2008; correct?
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25 A That is correct.

Q Going to the Minor Modification Application of
2008, Exhibit 6, starting with page A-29. Do you have
that?
A Yep.

Q And can you read for me what the project
description use is there?
A "Project description is restaurant, request to
extend hours to California law according to ABC, service until 2:00 a.m."
Q And at the time this request was made, it is your
understanding that The Bank had in place, through ABC, a Type 47 liquor license?
A That is correct.

Q And, again, just for clarification, that includes
wine, beer, and distilled spirits; correct?
A That is right.

Q Is this the proper form that would be used for a
minor modification of a CUP?
A It is.

Q I'm going to go to Exhibit 7, starting with
page 3.

A Okay.

Q The two -page letter signed by is Katy Engst. Is
Katy still with the City?
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25 A She is not.

Q And what was --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Did you
mean the City?
THE WITNESS: The City, yes. I'm sorry. She's
not with the City.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q On page on A-32, can you read for me what the
subject of the application is?
A "Planning Application No. PA 08-03236, a minor
modification to approved minor conditional use permit,
PA 07-0314, to extend the hours of operation for the
sales, service, and consumption of alcohol associated with the previously approved Type 47 ABC license for The Bank Mexican food restaurant."
Q Down at the bottom of that page under Section
No. 2, in italics, it says, "The Bank of Mexican Food
currently exists on site and currently holds a Type 47 ABC license." Do you believe that to be an accurate statement as of that time, as of October 15, 2008?
A Yes.

Q Go down through the final conditions of approval
to A-35, the acceptance of conditions of approval.

A Okay. I'm there.
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25 Q The signature line and date line are blank;
correct?
A They are.

Q Do you know why that is?
A I do not.

Q Was there ever a time between October of 2008
and, let's say, 2021 where the City was not able to locate the 2008 minor modification to the CUP?
A Not that I recall, no.

Q Okay. Go down further to section PL-13. You
testified before about the regular hours of operation, and then you also testified that PL-14 showed that the minor modification was accepted, and as a result of that, the restaurant manager of The Bank could stay open until
2:00 a.m.; is that correct?
A That's what the condition reads.

Q Okay. Is it your understanding from looking at
this, that it would be at the discretion of the manager to stay open until 2:00 or possibly not stay open until 2:00 if they decided?
A That is how the conditions read.

Q When you look through the final conditions of
approval, starting from page A-36 down to A-38, do you see any reference to anything dated in the 2007?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I didn't
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25 hear your question, Mr. Callaway. Could you repeat that? MR. CALLAWAY: Sure.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q In the City of Temecula filing conditions of
approval beginning on page A-36 down to A-38, do you see any reference to any dates in the year 2007?
A I do.

Q Whereabouts?
A Condition 18.

Q And that is the reference to Conditional Use
Permit PA 07-0314?
A Yes.

Q Other than that, do you see any reference to the
year 2007?
A I don't believe so. Let me do a quick scanning
here.

Q Okay. Going back up to PL-13 where it says,
"Regular hours of operation shall be as follows: Monday through Thursday, 11:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.; Friday, 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.; Saturday, 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.; and Sunday, 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m." If you go back to
Exhibit 5 for the 2007 Conditional Use Permit, in that
document -- bear with me for a second. In that
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25 '08, and compared to how they are laid out in the '07. So if you go back to Exhibit 5, Section 1 --
A Uh-huh.

Q -- it's not simply referencing two lines of
hours, that paragraph dealing with hours is different in Section 13 of the '07 modification as compared to Section 11 of the minor modification in 2008. Would you agree?
A It is different.

Q Okay. If I could have you take a look at
Exhibit 8. This is in regards to the 2012 application for the minor modification of the CUP.

A Okay.

Q Page A-40.

A Uh-huh.

Q Would you agree that the form that was used here
was not the correct form?
A The applicant turned in the wrong form, that's
correct.

Q Okay. Do you know who crossed out "Conditional
or Temporary Use" and wrote in "Minor Modification"?
A Yes, Stuart Fisk, who is a staff member here at
the City.

Q And is he presently a staff member there?
A He is.

Q What is his current position?
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25 A Planning manager.

Q How about in 2012, what was his position?
A I believe it was senior planner.

Q Okay. Would he have been a subordinate to you or
parallel, horizontally, or above you?
A He would have been equal to me at that time.

Q Okay.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway?
MR. CALLAWAY: Yes?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I hate to
interrupt, but it's around noon. I'm just curious if you have a whole lot more, or if it is a good time to take a lunch break.

MR. CALLAWAY: If you want to take a break now,
that would be fine.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Let's go off the record.
(The lunch recess was taken.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Back on
the record after the lunch break.

Mr. Watson, are you there?
THE WITNESS: I'm here.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Watson, do you understand you're still under oath to www. dilr9kojinesassociates.com

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25 tell the truth?
THE WITNESS: I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway, if you would like to resume
cross-examination?
MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Mr. Watson, just to clarify, you agree, don't
you, that the 2008 minor modification to the CUP gave the manager at The Bank discretion to operate until 2:00 a.m. seven days of the week; correct?
A That is correct.

Q And it's the City's position that that stopped
solely because of the minor modification of 2012 which
changed the operating hours; is that correct?
A That is correct.

Q And isn't is also correct that the minor
modification of 2012, if you look at the purpose of it, it doesn't ask for different hours; is that correct?
A Which one?
MS. PETRUSIS: I'm going to object that it is
vague and ambiguous. I don't think I understand the
question. Is it that the application doesn't ask for it? ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Yes.

Mr. Callaway, can you clarify? I believe that
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25 was the question. Although, I'm having difficulty hearing you. If you don't mind moving closer to your microphone.

MR. CALLAWAY: Is that better?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I
apologize. I have a fire truck outside. Hold on just one second. Okay. I think we are kosher.

Mr. Callaway, please continue.

MR. CALLAWAY: I'll rephrase. Thank you.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Mr. Watson, looking at Exhibit 9 --
A Okay.

Q -- which pertains to page A-44, which is the
cover letter dated February 28, 2012. Do you have that? A I do.

Q In the subject line, there is nothing in there
asking for a modification of hours; is that correct?
A In the subject line, no.

Q I'm sorry. That is correct; correct?
A That is correct.

Q And do you know why the hours were changed,
according to the City, in the 2012 minor modification?
What was the reason for that?
MS. PETRUSIS: Objection. I believe that invades
the deliberative process privilege.

MR. CALLAWAY: The whole thing, your Honor, stems
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25 around the change of hours. And to be honest, the
document itself is completely silent as to that.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I
understand your position.

I guess, Ms. Petrusis, your objection is what
exactly?
MS. PETRUSIS: Well, the deliberative process
privilege which protects the mental processes by which a particular decision was reached by City staff. So the
reasons why they change -- the way they made the decision they made is protected by the deliberative process
privilege.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I
understand your objection. I think to some degree,
however, whether or not Mr. Watson has an understanding as to why he believes that particular change is in there, it is certainly relevant to these proceedings in this case.

And, frankly, I don't know if he can speak to that. I
think it's a valid objection. But I think, Mr. Callaway, you can get this information if you ask this question
slightly differently.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Mr. Watson, do you know or do you have an
understanding as to why the hours were modified in the
2012 minor modification?
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25 A No, I was not there.

Q Have you, in preparation for your testimony
today, discussed that matter with anybody within the City? MS. PETRUSIS: And not including the City
attorney's office; correct?
MR. CALLAWAY: Correct.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Okay. And did you come to understand why the
hours were changed?
A Not exactly, no. But I can tell you this, the --
what is asked for on an application and what is included in the final approval -- whatever is asked for on the
application doesn't exactly end up in the final. That's where the negotiation takes place between the staff and the applicant. So the fact that the hours were changed
but they weren't asked to be changed is not surprising at all.

Q Well, in the 2012 application, the request was
for background music; correct?
A That's correct.

Q And that request, in fact, was granted or
approved, rather, in paragraph 9 of the final conditions of approval for the 2012 minor modification; correct?
A What are we pointing at here?
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25 Q Sure. In 2012, the final conditions of approval,
paragraph 9. I can get you the page number.

A Yes, please.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Which
exhibit is this, Mr. Callaway? Just out of curiosity.

MR. CALLAWAY: Sure. Exhibit 9 on page A-46.

THE WITNESS: 46?
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Correct.

A What was the question?
Q In paragraph 9, it appears that the request for
background music was approved, would you agree?
A Yes, that is correct.

Q Okay. And can you read for me what the approval
consisted of, or what the limitations were?
A In Condition 9; right?
Q Correct.

A "Indoor dining entertainment consisting of one
keyboard or other one instrument played with one vocalist for the purpose of providing background music is permitted daily from noon until 10:00 p.m."
Q Okay. Is there anything in Exhibit 9 that tells
you why the hours were reduced?
A I don't think so.

Q So Exhibit 9, in the final conditions of
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25 approval, it is completely silent as to any justification for changing the hours; would you agree?
A It does not address the change in the hours in
Condition 9.

Q Do you believe that the hours were changed as a
tradeoff or give and take with the fact that background music was going to be allowed in The Bank?
A It's probable.

Q Okay. Have you discussed with anybody who stated
that that was the reason?
A No.

Q So as you testify today on behalf of the City,
you don't have an opinion as to why the hours were
reduced; is that correct?
MS. PETRUSIS: Objection. That misstates prior
testimony.

MR. CALLAWAY: I'm just looking to clarify. If
I'm wrong, he can tell me.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Yes. I'm
going allow him to clarify as far as the way the question was worded.

Perhaps you can just answer the question.

If there's a follow-up objection, Ms. Petrusis,
you can give it.
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25 Q Mr. Watson, as you sit here today, do you have a
belief as to why the hours were reduced in the 2012 minor A I can make an assumption, but I can't tell you
for a fact why they were charged.

Q What is your opinion?
A Well, it is standard practice that when an
applicant comes in to get a CUP or to modify a CUP, that there is a tradeoff, there is negotiation. If they're
asking for something new or different, the City will take that into consideration in light of all of the potential impacts and may alter one or more conditions to match the new request. This happens all the time. So my assumption is, there's nothing different here in this case. There
was a new request that resulted in a back and forth and the hours were changed because of the new request.

Q So in 2008, The Bank has a Type 47 license for
full alcohol, distilled spirits, beer, and wine, and they make an application for a minor modification and extend their hours and that's granted, but when you add a
guitarist and a singer, you're saying it would be
reasonable to then take those hours back away?
A Perhaps at the time it was reasonable.

Q Okay. But in the end, you don't have any factual
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25 background as to why the hours were removed; is that correct?
A I do not.

Q Okay. Do you know anybody at the City who does?
A I don't know for sure.

Q Okay. You testified that making changes occurs.

I think you said it's a common occurrence. When those
changes are made, when something is taken away, would that typically be shown in the final conditions of approval or somewhere in the paperwork as to why that was done?
A It wouldn't be shown in the conditions of
approval and it would not be in the approval letter. The conditions of approval would be the location of the
changes. That's where it would be documented.

Q Is there anywhere else that you would see what
was removed?
A You may see it in a staff report, but it's not
required.

Q I did some quick math. Would you agree that
The Bank, pursuant to the 2008 minor modification to stay open until 2:00, and now their hours were reduced in
2012 -- I count approximately 26 hours a week that they are potentially losing out on. Would that -- would you
agree with that?
A If that's what the math adds up to, yes, that
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25 would be the number of hours that they are not allowed to be open during the week.

Q So in the 2012 minor modification, again,
focusing on the final conditions for approval. In
paragraph 12, page 846, it's the City's position that
those are the new hours that The Bank has to operate by from there forward. When I say "from there forward," from the time the 2012 minor modification is approved and
notice is given to The Bank; would that be accurate?
A That's accurate.

Q If you look at paragraph 12 on page 46 in
Exhibit 9, there's a reference to "As an amended
director's hearing on 01/03/08." Do you see that?
A Uh-huh.

Q Do you know how something that was four years old
showed back up in this 2012 modification?
A No, I wasn't part of the process then, so I don't
know.

Q Had you, in preparation for today, had a chance
to compare the final conditions of approval from the 2007 CUP to the 2012 minor modification request?
A I mean, I have read them. I have reviewed them.

Q Would you agree that the hours in paragraph 12 of
the 2012 modification are identical to those in paragraph 13 of the 2007 CUP?
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25 A Are you asking me to do a comparison right now?
Q Yes. So just for clarification, we have
Exhibit 5 for the 2007 CUP, and Exhibit 9 for the 2012.

And, again, in the 2007, it's paragraph 13.

A They appear to be the same hours.

Q Okay. Do you have any understanding as to why
the hours in 2012 went back, word for word, exactly the same, to what they were in the 2007 CUP?
A I do not.

Q In comparing the final conditions of approval
from the 2007 CUP to the 2012 minor modification -- I
looked through them, and I found that paragraphs 3 through 29 from 2007 were identical to 1 through 28 in 2012, with the exception of paragraph 9 of 2012. I would like you to take a look and tell me if you agree that those are,
verbatim, identical between the two?
A How many conditions do you want me to go through
now.

Q It's Conditions 3 through 29 of 2007 and
Conditions 1 through 28 of 2012.

A That's going to take some time.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway, maybe you can give me an offer of proof as to the relevance of that?
MR. CALLAWAY: Just that it appears that the two
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25 documents, that the 2012 copy and pasted from the 2007.

Everything is identical.

THE WITNESS: There's nothing unusual about that
whatsoever. Nothing unusual about that. That happens all of the time. And if they were negotiating back to a
previous state of a set of conditions, that's exactly what they would have done. They would have just copy and
pasted it.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Including
the
section regarding hours?
A If that's
what
they wanted to have in there,
yeah; otherwise, it would require them to write up a whole new condition. If they had a condition that they already agreed to, they would just copy and paste it.

Q Let's focus back, now, on Exhibit 9, page A-48
under General Requirements -- actually, Police Department and General Requirements, paragraph 23.

A Okay.

Q First sentence reads, "Applicant has applied for
a Type 47 (on -sale general eating place) through the
Riverside District Office of Alcoholic Beverage Control." As of 2012, that's not correct, is it? They already had it? My point is, they hadn't applied for, they already
had it; isn't that correct?
A Yes. By 2012, they acquired a CUP with a Type 47
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25 in 2007.

Q And at the bottom of that same paragraph it says,
"The applicant currently has a Type 41 (on -sale beer and wine)" That's not accurate, it is?
A No, it's not.

Q And if you go down to paragraph 27 on that same
page, A-48, in the middle of it, it says that "Alcohol
review board has been scheduled for Wednesday,
December 12, 2007, at 10:00 a.m." That's not possible in the year 2012; correct?
A No.

Q Same thing on page 49, subsection lower case e,
Alcohol review board. It says, "The review board will
convene with the applicant on Wednesday, December 12,
2007." That wouldn't have been possible in 2012; correct? A No.

Q Do you know who the person from the City is who
would be most knowledgeable as to a reason why the hours were reduced in 2012?
A No, because -- I don't know. Maybe Stuart Fisk
who is here, but I'm not sure what his involvement was in this.

Q You were previously shown Exhibit 13, which is
your letter for May 19, 2022. Do you have that?
A Uh-huh.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Exhibit 15?
MR. CALLAWAY: It is --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: 14, or no?
MR. CALLAWAY: I have Exhibit 13.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: 13. Okay.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q And that letter has your signature; correct?
A It does.

Q So in paragraph 3 -- let me jump to this. I'm on
the second page of the letter, Bates A-201.

A Uh-huh.

Q Paragraph 3 violations. In that paragraph, you
are addressing violations of operating hours and selling alcoholic beverages beyond prescribed hours; is that
correct?
A That is correct.

Q I counted 83 citations -- approximately 83. I'm
sorry. 100 citations there. If The Bank was operating
within permissible hours -- strike that.

If The Bank could operate with the hours from the
2008 minor modification, if that was in place, all of
those violations would go away; correct?
A I'm not sure. The hours -- the hours from 2012
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25 don't understand the question.

Q If The Bank could operate until beyond 10:00 p.m.
and 11:00 p.m. and they could operate until 2:00 a.m.,
these violations would go away -- if they were within the requirements on the 2008 hours, there would be no
violations; correct?
MS. PETRUSIS: Objection. I think it lacks
foundation and assumes facts not in evidence that the
violations that are the subject of the citations in that question were all from hours of operation permitted by
the 2008 modification.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm going
to sustain the objection. We have no idea what time those violations listed in the citations state.

MR. CALLAWAY: Okay.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q The same exhibit, Mr. Watson, down to Bates
A-205.

A Okay.

Q Paragraph 5, it's alleged that there was
violation of noise standards in Temecula Municipal Code Section 9.2.040, and as a result, 17 violations were
issued; correct?
A That is correct.

Q And the dates of those violations are from
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25 April 9, 2021, through July 12, 2021, roughly a
three-month period. Do you know why they stopped at that time?
A Probably because they stopped violating code and
the conditions of approval at that point.

Q Okay. In your testimony -- before, you testified
about generally what Old Town Temecula is like and also the proximity of City Hall to The Bank. Do you recall
that?
A I do.

Q You also testified that you believe you were
first aware that they were violating -- that The Bank was violating its operating hours some time in 2021; correct? A Yes. It's very hard for me to know. It could
have been late 120, early 121. I just don't know. I
don't recall the first time I found out about that. It
was somewhere --
Q I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.

A It's somewhere late 2020 to 2021. I don't know
the exact date.

Q Were you ever aware between 2012 and 2021 --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway, you broke up. I did not hear your question.

Can you repeat it?
MR. CALLAWAY: Sure.
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25 BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Were you ever aware between 2012 and 2020 that
The Bank was operating outside of their permitted hours? A Not that I recall.

Q Okay. You testified also that The Bank is in a
kind of prime central intersection; correct?
A That is correct.

Q Can you tell me, kind of on a weekend night,
Friday, Saturday night, what is the foot traffic like in that area? You gave us a description of Old Town before.

I'm looking for you to expound on that a little bit.

A It's very heavy -- the foot traffic is very
heavy. It's a very busy area. People going to
restaurants, they're going to events, tourists are walking through the shops. It's a busy downtown area. It's a
smaller town's busy downtown area. It's not like
San Diego or another big city. It's a small city, but
it's busy. It's a lot of foot traffic.

Q Is it your impression that people go to multiple
locations -- multiple restaurants and bars on a given
evening? Is that common?
A Perhaps. I don't know.

Q So you are not really sure if people tend to bar
hop, going from restaurant to restaurant, or tend to stay? You don't have an opinion one way or the other?
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25 A No, I don't.

Q You talked before about some violations, and you
talked about two shootings. One of them was in The Bank and one of them was not in The Bank; is that correct?
A One of them was in The Bank -- yes, that is
correct. Not -- the November one was not inside of
The Bank, but it was adjacent to The Bank.

Q The one in November, where was it in proximity to
The Bank? You said adjacent in proximity. Can you
describe it a little bit more?
A My understanding, in talking to the police
department, is it is in a parking lot directly behind
The Bank.

Q Do you know who owns that parking lot?
A I do not.

Q Is that parking lot open to public parking?
A It's a private lot. I'm assuming they allow
public parking there.

Q Do you know if the parking is restricted
exclusively to patrons of The Bank?
A I don't believe so.

Q So let me ask you, what other popular restaurants
are in the immediate vicinity of The Bank?
A There's 24 restaurants in Old Town. They are all
in a six -block radius, so they're all kind of in the
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25 vicinity.

Q So you agree that people can kind of walk from
one end to the other and hit all of them if they wanted to or any one in particular?
A If they wanted to, yes.

Q And would you agree that people, whatever
restaurant they are going to, utilize that parking lot? MS. PETRUSIS: Objection. I think it lacks
foundation. It's vague and ambiguous.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm going
to overrule.

You can answer the question if you understand it.

THE WITNESS: No, I'm not sure I understand it.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q People who are using that parking lot, to your
belief, they would could be going to any particular
restaurant -- it's not one in particular, it could be any one or any store; is that right?
A It's possible.

Q Have you ever parked in that parking lot?
A I don't recall. No. I'm not sure. I don't
think I have, but I have been around a long time. Maybe.

I can't tell you.

Q Is the parking lot immediately adjacent to
The Bank or are there other buildings between it and
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A It's on the lot immediately -- I haven't been
back there in a long time, but The Bank is immediately
adjacent to this lot. I don't know. I can't tell you
exactly where the walls are and whatever, but it's
immediately adjacent.

Q And what makes you believe that this particular
shooting -- is it the November shooting that you believed happened in parking lot area?
A Sorry?
Q The two shootings, I believe -- is it the
November shooting that you believed happened in the
parking lot area?
A The November shooting, my understanding is it
happened in that parking lot area.

Q And what information do you have to believe that
it is, in any way, related to The Bank?
A That's what the Riverside Sheriff's Department
told me.

Q Specifically, what were you told?
A I was told that patrons of The Bank got into an
altercation in the parking lot immediately behind The Bank at 2:00 a.m. or so, and that a gun was pulled and shots were fired and a guy was shot in the leg.

Q Do you know anything else about the
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25 circumstances?
A I do not.

Q Do you know if they had been drinking?
A I can't speak to that. I don't know.

Q Do you know if they had been to any restaurants
or bars other than The Bank that night?
A I don't know.

Q Do you have any information on something The Bank
could have or should have done to prevent that?
A I mean, do you want to me to opine on --
actually, I've got one. They should have been closed, and no one should have been in their facility until 2:00 a.m.

That's one thing that they could have done. So no one
should have even had the opportunity to drink until
2:00 a.m., that is something they could have done.

Q Do you know that they were drinking at The Bank?
A I don't.

Q Okay.

A Hold on. Sorry. I don't know -- the PD told me
they were at The Bank. I don't know if they were in
The Bank drinking.

Q Do you know of anything The Bank could have done
that they didn't do that would have prevented that
shooting?
A Closed on time.
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25 Q How would that have had any impact?
A Maybe they all wouldn't have been there.

Q But you don't know that?
A Well, no. You just asked me if I thought there
was anything they could do.

Q Okay. Other than that, anything else?
A No.

Q So you said earlier that there were a number of
crimes that happen at or near The Bank that you believe are associated with The Bank; is that correct?
A That is correct.

Q How close does something have to be to The Bank
for you to believe that it's close enough to be their
fault?
A That's a question for the police department. I'm
not on site. I go off of what they tell me. If they tell me a crime is committed and it's associated with The Bank, then it's associated with The Bank. If you want more
specifics, you would have to talk to the police
department.

Q So if somebody said it was associated with
The Bank, what do you believe "associated" means?
A That they were patrons, that they were employees,
that they were somehow associated in going there or doing business there.
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25 Q You mentioned an incident of somebody who jumped
the fence by the creek and broke both legs?
A That's right.

Q How close is the creek to The Bank?
A 200 feet.

Q And what information do you have to believe that
that incident was in any way tied to The Bank?
A That's what the police department told me.

Q Okay. What did they say specifically?
A They said that this group of people was coming
from The Bank, that they were drinking at The Bank, and the folks that they caught admitted they were at The Bank and then the brawl took place and everything I already
described took place.

Q You testified before about overserving. I just
want to make sure I understand. What do you mean by that? A Serving patrons until they are completely
inebriated and them go on to engage in disorderly
conduct -- urination, fights, criminal activities.

Q What makes you believe that The Bank was engaged
in that?
A A long track record of all of those things taking
place in and around The Bank.

Q So if it's around The Bank, could they have been
drinking at another establishment as well?
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25 A They could have.

MR. CALLAWAY: Just give me a second here.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q In preparing for your testimony today, did you
review any police logs or calls for service logs?
A No.

Q Have you ever reviewed any calls for service logs
related to The Bank?
A Nope.

Q So your testimony today about crime and criminal
activity involving The Bank is something you have gotten from law enforcement; is that correct?
A That is correct.

Q Have you ever witnessed any of it yourself?
A No.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you. I don't have any other
questions.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Ms. Martyn, cross-examination?

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Mr. Watson, just a few questions. Do you recall
meeting Mr. Norman Solomon around 2016, during the time you were the community development director?
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25 A Honestly, I don't. No, I don't.

Q That's fine. I want to confirm, when you say
"The Bank," you mean the business itself, not the property owner; correct?
A Yes, when I refer to "The Bank," I mean the
restaurant.

Q Okay. Great. Thank you. In the 2012 CUP that
you looked at, I believe -- let me take a look at the
exhibit. That was an exhibit that your counsel showed
you. Did you see the name of the property owner who
signed it?
A What exhibit are we on?
Q It would be Exhibit 6 and it would be Exhibit 8.

And I can be more specific. Are those signed by the
property owner named Maureen Licata?
A Let's see, Exhibit 6 does appear to be signed by
Maureen Licata. What was the second one? I'm sorry.

Q The second one is the second minor modification,
I believe, Exhibit 8.

A 8.

Q It should be about the last page.

A Yes, Maureen Licata.

Q Okay. So next question. You testified that you
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A I do.

MS. PETRUSIS: I think that calls for a legal
conclusion.

MS. MARTYN: I was asking as a planning
professional. I wasn't asking for a legal conclusion.

MS. PETRUSIS: I think when you ask if somebody
has a vested right in something, that's a legal
conclusion.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: He's
answered the question already, and I'll allow it based on his experience. But I understand your objection,
Ms. Petrusis, and it's well -taken.

BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Okay. Mr. Watson, have you ever seen the lease
between Zip Third and The Bank?
A I couldn't hear you.

Q Have you ever seen the lease between Zip Third
and The Bank?
A Not to my knowledge, no.

Q Okay. Turning to the City's Exhibit No. 13,
which is the May 19 letter. And I want to confirm that
that letter is the official -- I hope I'm using the right word -- revocation letter on behalf of the City; is that correct?
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25 A That's the official notification letter that's
required.

Q Thank you. And I want to confirm that the
property owner was included as a CC, not as an addressee? A That is correct.

Q Thank you. And just to confirm, the letter was
sent to the property owner at The Bank's address in
Temecula and not at Wilshire address in Los Angeles?
A The first one.

Q The May 19 letter. I understand it was later
provided. Okay. At the time the May 19th letter was
provided to Mr. Solomon in July, which would be
Exhibit 14, which has, I think, a variety of pieces, had the revocation hearing already been set with OAH?
A I don't know.

Q Were you the person who said it or was it someone
else? Was it the City Attorney's office?
A I believe the City Attorney's office.

Q Okay. Got it. Do you supervise Tom Cole?
A He has multiple supervisors between me and him,
but, yes, he's in the chain of command.

Q That's fine. Have there been other CUP
revocations in the city -- let's give a time frame --
within the last five years?
A No.
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that? Ten years? Not that you recall?
A No.

Q Great. Thank you. A more general question. I'm
asking you this as a planning professional. I'm not
asking for a legal conclusion, and I'm not asking for any privileged information. Why do you believe revocation
will solve the problem with The Bank?
A Well, it's specific actors that are involved that
are operating the business in this manner. So, you know, removing the liquor from the environment is certainly
going to help. I don't know if it will solve everything, but this is what we have at our disposal to enforce, and that's what we are using.

We are using what is at our disposal. I have no
idea what will happen after the revocation. They haven't listened to the City or police department yet, so I don't know if they will even if it is revoked.

Q Okay. Do you -- again, this is asked as an
administrator within the city, not a legal conclusion and not anything that you have discussed your counsel. Do you believe that an effective remedy would be eviction,
obviously not done by the City, but done by the landlord? A I don't know. I don't know.

Q Okay. That's fine. I want to confirm -- this is
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25 basically, a zoning question. It's my understanding that if the CUP were to be revoked, the use of the property
would be governed by specific plans for Old Town, I
believe it's a C-1 zoning, which means you could have a restaurant with wine and beer sales if there was the
applicable 41 license; correct?
A That is correct.

Q Based on your experience as a community
development director, do you believe that that use of the property is worth less than a use with a 47 license?
MS. PETRUSIS: Objection.

THE WITNESS: I don't know.

MS. PETRUSIS: Well, he answered.

MS. MARTYN: He doesn't know.

BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Finally -- and this is a true question. It is
not intended to sound argumentative. It is really a
question. You testified that in code enforcement
situations the City tries to be business friendly and that the City does not want to use a heavy hand as to owners, but, instead, to work collaboratively. I think I quoted that pretty accurately. Based on that, did you ever
attempt to contact Mr. Solomon or anyone at Zip Third by phone, for example?
A No. But there were hundreds, I think, of letters
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25 and citations and other correspondence --
Q Assuming for the sake of argument that those were
received. My question is, you indicated that code
enforcement reaches out to owners to act collaboratively.

Did you reach out to this owner to act collaboratively? -- meaning, a phone call or something that isn't an
enforcement letter? That is my definition for purposes
of this question.

A No, we didn't.

MS. MARTYN: Okay. I think that's all of my
questions. Thank you very much.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you.

All right. Ms. Petrusis, did you have any
redirect?
MS. PETRUSIS: No, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. And
in that case, I have no questions.

Mr. Watson, you may be released. Thank you for
your time.

THE WITNESS: Thank you.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Ms. Petrusis, your next witness.

MS. PETRUSIS: Yes. The City would like to call
Tom Cole as its next witness.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.
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25 Mr. Cole, are you there?
MR. COLE: Yes. Can you hear me?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Yes. Can
you get a little closer to your microphone?
MR. COLE: How is this?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: A little
muffled, but better.

MR. COLE: Let me take my headset off.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Now I
can't hear you at all. Wait a second. There you go.

Much better. Speak again.

MR. COLE: Much better now?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Much. All
right. That's much better. So Mr. Cole, I'm going to
place you under oath. Can you please raise your right
hand for me?

TOM COLE,
called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn by the Administrative Law Judge, was examined and testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. You
can put your hand down. Could you please state and spell www.di nesassociates.com

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25 your full name?
THE WITNESS: My name is Tom Cole, C-O-L-E.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you,
Mr. Cole.

Ms. Petrusis.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Mr. Cole, where are you currently employed?
A The City of Temecula.

Q And what is your current position at the City of
Temecula?
A I'm a field supervisor for code enforcement.

Q And could you please just generally describe your
work history for the City of Temecula beginning with when you joined the City?
A I started with the City as an intern in 1992, and
I have been with code enforcement full time since 1997.

Q And have you always held the position that you
have currently with the City?
A No. I started as a code enforcement officer I,
and went to code enforcement officer II, and then a senior code enforcement officer, and, currently, supervising code enforcement.
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25 Q Can you generally describe what your duties and
responsibilities are at the City currently?
A We, in code enforcement, enforce the City rules
and regulations and the municipal code. The purpose of
code enforcement is property maintenance, quality -of -life issues for the citizens of the City of Temecula.

Q And these duties and responsibilities, were they
the same back in, let's say, 2012?
A Yes, overall they were. Yes.

Q So they haven't recently changed?
A No.

Q Okay. Maybe you can describe for us kind of a
typical life cycle of a code enforcement case?
A Sure. Initially, we will take a complaint, and
we will go out and verify that via an investigation. We would typically issue a notice of violation, a warning, if you will, that could move to a citation, and, ultimately, to civil penalties. And if we still cannot get
compliance, at that point, we bring in the City Attorney's office.

Q Okay. Now, starting with -- you said you receive
a complaint. Does the City's Code Enforcement Department patrol the streets for code violations?
A No, we are a reactive city. We respond to
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25 something that is a major issue, that's the point we would take care of it or attempt to take care of it without a complaint.

Q So speaking very generally, is it possible, then,
that an individual business could be violating, let's say, a Conditional Use Permit for a while before code
enforcement is aware of it?
A Yes. And in a situation such as the one we are
discussing, there is no way that we will be out there on the weekend at 11:00 p.m. at night to see if someone is opened or -- we don't monitor Conditional Use Permits
unless we get a complaint.

Q Okay. Can you describe the difference between an
administrative citation and a civil penalty letter?
A An administrative citation is a smaller dollar
amount. In the City of Temecula, it's $50.00, $100.00,
and $250.00. We created a civil penalty in order to
address situations where, perhaps, someone is violating and just paying the fine as a cost of doing business.

Q And so what is the ultimate purpose, then, to
issue citations and civil penalty letters?
A The ultimate purpose of any violation is
compliance. The civil penalties and administrative
citations, these are all tools that we use to try to
achieve compliance.
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25 Q Is it ever used to punish a business?
A No.

Q Or to punish an individual?
A No, it's strictly used to achieve compliance.

It's a tool.

Q Now, are you familiar with a restaurant currently
called The Bank?
A Yes.

Q And where is it located?
A It is in Old Town Temecula. It's on the
northwest corner of Main Street and Old Town Front Street.

Q Do you happen to remember the street address for
The Bank?
A I should off hand. But let me -- it is 2869 --
28645 Old Town Front Street.

Q Okay. So as a code enforcement officer, how
would you describe the Old Town Temecula area?
A I would say it's the original downtown area for
southwest Riverside County. It's Western themed. It has a ranching and farming history. I believe there was a
stagecoach stop there in the 1800s. A lot of historic
buildings.

Q Okay. And generally speaking, how large is the
Old Town area in Temecula?
A It has two main streets that go north to south
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25 and six to seven streets that go east to west.

Q Okay. Previously, Mr. Watson testified that
there was, I think, 24 restaurants in Old Town Temecula.

Does that sound about right to you?
A I'm sure he has an exact number. I just know
it's a little bit over 20.

Q Okay. Now speaking specifically about violations
by The Bank, have you personally ever issued citations
regarding violations at The Bank restaurant?
A Yes, I have.

Q What about civil penalty letters? Have you ever
personally issued civil penalty letters for violations at The Bank restaurant?
A Yes, I have.

Q Approximately -- and if you know the exact
number, great. Approximately how many citations have you issued regarding The Bank?
A 35 administrative citations.

Q And how many civil penalties have you issued
regarding violations at The Bank?
A Approximately 108.

Q Okay. And generally speaking, what were these
violations regarding?
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25 was allowed per our municipal code, and I believe there were two for over occupancy.

Q Okay. And we'll get into that later. And does
this also hold true for the civil penalties?
A Correct, yes.

Q Are you familiar with the documents that are
contained in the City's Exhibit No. 10?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Can you describe those documents? What
are those documents in the City's Exhibit 10?
A Those are administrative citations.

Q So they are copies of administrative citations
issued by the City?
A Correct. I believe all of them are issued by
myself.

Q Okay. There are some documents in the City's
Exhibit 10 that have some handwritten notes, on the side, specifically. Do you have Exhibit No. 10 in front you,
Mr. Cole?
A I can get it quickly.

Q Okay. We can give you a second.

A Okay. Hang on. Sorry. I'm still looking.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Are you on
CaseLines?
THE WITNESS: No, I'm just looking for the link
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25 on my e-mail that Jennifer had sent me. I had it pulled up and now I can't find it.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, do you have the
ability to allow me --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: If he's on
CaseLines, I can direct him to the page.

THE WITNESS: I did log on. I did fill out the
information this morning to get on CaseLines. How would I access that?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: There
should be a link, but I'm not sure if that's the fastest way. Or you can have it sent to him by e-mail,
Ms. Petrusis.

MS. PETRUSIS: Yes. So why don't we do this --
THE WITNESS: I got it.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Did you find it?
A I have got the link. I'll pull up Exhibit 10.

Which page number are we looking at?
Q So it will be marked at the bottom, 0051. It's
the first page.

A I see that. You bet.

Q Okay. So if you look on the left-hand side of
that page, do you see some handwriting?
A Yes.
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25 Q And what does that say?
A It says "Paid," and there is an invoice number
and code case number.

Q Okay. So that code case number, is that the
number at the bottom of the handwriting?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And do you happen to know who wrote
"Paid," and then the invoice number and the code case
number?
A It may have been Sophia, but I'm not 100 percent
sure.

Q And who is Sophia?
A She's our administrative professional in code
enforcement.

Q So does this indicate to you that at least this
particular citation was paid?
A Yes.

Q Okay.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, I would like to move
into evidence Exhibit No. 10, please.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, Exhibit 10 is admitted.
(Exhibit 10 was received in evidence.)
MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.
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25 BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q You mentioned earlier, Mr. Cole, that one of the
violations was regarding hours of operation. So since you personally issued citations for this violation, how did you determine that there was a violation of the permitted hours of operation?
A I have been out in Old Town at that time every
Friday and Saturday night, so I physically observed it
being open.

Q Okay. And how often did you go out there every
Friday and Saturday night?
A Pretty much every Friday and Saturday night from
March -- well, as far as The Bank is concerned, from March 2021 to present. I had started monitoring Old Town on the weekend due to other complaints about different
restaurants that were open after hours. So I actually
started monitoring that location probably in the fall of 2019.

Q Okay. And how did you know what the permitted
operating hours were for The Bank or are for The Bank?
A I looked at their Conditional Use Permit.

Q As of today, what are the permitted hours of
operation for The Bank?
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25 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m.; and Sunday, 8:00 a.m. to
10:00 p.m., with an opportunity for them to stay open
later on holidays. Cinco de Mayo was mentioned, and that was a midnight closing time.

Q How did you confirm -- you said you personally
went out there, but now I want you to get into details
about how did you know that it was still operating past its permitted hours? What did you personally observe?
A I observed them being open beyond 11:00 p.m.

Since we started going out with the Metro Team, I
observed, you know, the behavior that's been discussed
earlier. I have seen people throwing up. I have seen
people fall down in the street outside of The Bank. I
have seen at least two occasions where people were
literally trying to pick a fight with the police
department.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: People try
to do what with the police department? I couldn't hear
that.

THE WITNESS: Pick a fight, getting up in their
face. It looked to me like they were -- you know, they
wanted to fight, and sometimes the words were said, but I have witnessed these things in person.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Did you see customers inside The Bank's premises
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A I did.

Q Did they appear to be eating or drinking still at
the time?
A From the outside of the restaurant. I have only
been in a handful of times. They weren't eating. They
were drinking and/or dancing.

Q And when you observed dancing, could you tell
what type of music was being played? I should say, if it was live entertainment?
A It was from a DJ. As far as the type of music, I
don't listen to it. I just -- it was a DJ and lights and that kind of stuff.

Q Okay. So when you observed individuals dancing
at The Bank, the music was provided by a DJ?
A Correct. And it was after 11:00 p.m.

Q Now, what is the permitted noise level --
exterior noise level for that location?
A In the entire Old Town area, it's 70 decibels.

Q Is that pursuant to the Temecula Municipal Code?
A Correct, yes.

Q Okay. And you mentioned earlier about noise
violations. So how did you determine that the level of
noise was above what was permitted by the municipal code? A We have decibel readers that were issued.
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readers?
A At least 10 years.

Q And so please describe for me the process that
you would use to check the noise level when you went out there.

A We have handheld decibel readers. They're
calibrated by the company once a year, and we calibrate them in here periodically. There is a digital readout.

So they're just handheld so we can stand on the adjacent property and look at the levels of sound that are coming out.

And at the time that they received the citations
for violating the noise ordinance, the speakers outside were literally blasting, and it was 90-plus decibels --

95. I try to be lenient with the different types of
noises that can come into Old Town. If it's 80ish, I'll give a warning. If it's over 90, I typically always issue a citation.

Q Do you believe you gave warnings to The Bank
about the noise levels before you started issuing
citations?
A I did, yes.

Q I would like to direct your attention to, again,
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A I will be much faster than last time. Got it.

Q Okay. Is this an example of a citation issued
for noise violations?
A Yes, it's a noise violation and, additionally,
hours of operation.

Q And in the Correction Required section, can you
read what you -- was that you who wrote that information? A Yes, it is.

Q Is that your signature at the bottom of the
citation?
A Yes, it is.

Q And so can you read for me what is in the section
Correction Required?
A It says, "$300.00 due. Discontinue business
operations after 11:00 p.m. Keep noise levels under 70
decibels to avoid additional cite/fine/legal action."
Q And when was this citation issued?
A April 9, 2021.

Q And to whom was it issued?
A It was issued to the agent for service for
CNC Puma Corporation, Brad Landon.

Q And what is your understanding of the role of
CNC Puma Corporation for The Bank?
A It is their corporate name that I looked up. I
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25 looked at the business license and I got CNC Puma
Corporation off of the business license, I went to the
Secretary of State website and saw that their agent for service was Brad Landon.

Q And is that why you sent the citation to
Brad Landon?
A Yes. Prior to me issuing any of the citations,
once I saw he was the agent for service -- he is a friend of mine, so I gave him a call and let him know that I
would be sending the citations to him, because I figured as soon as he got one, he would call me.

Q And what, if anything, or how, if at all, did he
respond to you giving him that heads up?
A He basically thanked me for the heads up.

Q On page 59 at the top, can you read what is
handwritten, like, kind of above the citation itself?
A Forgive me. I just clicked out of it. I'll be
right back. So page 59? Okay. It lists the code
enforcement case again, CE 21-0676, Invoice No. 93616 and the citation was paid.

Q Okay. So it's your understanding that the
citation for the Conditional Use Permit violation and
noise violation was paid?
A Correct.

Q Has the City received a request from anyone to
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A No.

Q So I think you kind of started to touch on this.

I wanted to drill down a little further about when you
first became aware of The Bank violating its permitted
hours of operation.

A Yeah. In or around sometime in the first quarter
of 2021, probably in March. We had a meeting requested by the Temecula Police Department, which is Riverside County deputy sheriffs that we contract with.

Sergeant Jason Gore and Deputy Beau Bowman
requested that we meet with City staff because at that
point in time, I was simply doing decibel readings and
monitoring hours of operations. And after that meeting -- shortly after the Metro Team was formed, we started --
based on their request, we started to walk with them in Old Town.

So we created, as we called it, the Metro Team
Plus with the Temecula PD, the fire department, code
enforcement, and building and safety. So that was -- we basically started going -- and The Bank came on our radar based on a complaint from the police department,
basically.

Q Okay. And about when was the Metro Team Plus
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A Fall of 2020.

Q Okay. And how -- what was the purpose of the
Metro Team Plus?
A The police department's request for help. After
we started walking with the police, with fire code and
building, and monitoring the occupancy of a lot of these places in Old Town, the calls for service were drastically reduced, according to the police department. At least
that's what they told us.

We walked with them and met them every Friday and
every Saturday night, 10:00 to 10:30. We all rendezvous and do our sweep of Old Town. There's 12 places that we visit each and every Friday and each and every Saturday.

Q And these places, are they restaurants?
A They are restaurants, and some of these
restaurants have morphed into bars, which is part of the reason why we do what we do. So some are restaurants and some are bars, or -- I think we have a permit for one
nightclub in Old Town. Any place that has activity with noise, we visit.

Q Does the Metro Team Plus -- or I should first of
all ask, is it still active as of today?
A It was active last weekend, and it will be active
this weekend, so yes.
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25 Q Okay.

Is
it
targeting The
Bank
specifically?
A No.

The
Bank
is just one
of the
places that we
visit.

Q Have you ever spoken to Amanda Moore? I also
understand that her last name might be Lane.

A I have, yes.

Q And to your understanding, what is her role
regarding The Bank?
A I don't know if it's been explained to me. She
acts like a manager. I assume she's the manager, and she possibly has interest in the business. I'm not sure.

Q Generally describe for us the conversations that
you have had with Ms. Moore/Ms. Lane.

A They're typically superficial conversations. I
know several times we talked about our mutual friend,
Brad Landon. Personal stuff. I have probably had less
than five conversations in the last 18 months about the hours of operations violations, because we don't really talk about it. She doesn't ask, so I don't have anything to offer.

Q And, yet, you are still issuing these civil
penalties. How long have you been issuing civil penalties to The Bank?
A They have been getting one every Friday and
Saturday since March of 2021.
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25 Q Has Ms. Moore ever said to you that she is --
strike that.

Has Ms. Moore ever said to you that The Bank is
going to comply with its permitted operating hours?
A No.

Q And do you happen to know how many citations and
civil penalties have been paid?
A I don't have the number, but I do have a dollar
amount.

Q Okay. Whatever information that you have.

A It's a hair over $30,000.00 that they have paid.

Q So, approximately, $30,000.00 in citations and
civil penalties have been paid?
A Correct.

Q And do you happen to know how much is left
unpaid?
A Almost $150,000.00.

Q And that $150,000.00, is it safe to say that a
large portion of that is delinquent?
A Yes.

Q Overdue?
A Yes.

Q Have you ever spoken to Craig Puma?
A Yes.

Q How many times have you spoken with Craig Puma?
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25 A He was on the Old Town Review Board, and so I
have spoken to him, probably, 10 times. And I've spoken to him about the situation either in person or via e-mail one time.

Q And what is your understanding of Craig Puma's
role with The Bank?
A My understanding and what I believe is he's an
absentee owner.

Q Why do you say that?
A Because I used to see him there, and I never see
him there anymore. And he is still listed as CNC Puma on the Secretary of State website.

Q You mentioned earlier that you came up with the
name CNC Puma Corporation from the business license?
A It was from the business license, yes.

Q Is that the business license that the City has on
file for The Bank?
A Correct. So that way, I was able to look up that
on the Secretary of State website to get their agent for service.

Q So you mentioned that you had at least one
conversation with Mr. Puma about this matter. And I'm
going to define that further as the violations that are the subject of this revocation matter. Do I have that
right?
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Q And can you --
A I'm sorry, Jennifer. Not the revocation matter.

I only spoke to him initially about the hours of
operation, and that would have been sometime, probably, between March and June of 2021. And, again, I don't
recall if it was on the phone or via e-mail.

Q Okay. Thank you for clarifying. So in that
communication, can you just generally describe what he
said to you?
A In a nutshell, he just disagreed with the City's
interpretation of the Conditional Use Permit as far as the hours of operation.

Q Do you have an understanding of who the property
owner is of the property on which The Bank operates?
A Yes.

Q And what is that?
A Zip Third Investments LLC.

Q And how did you determine that?
A I initially went to Real Quest to determine the
owner of the property itself and saw that it was an LLC, so then I looked it up on the Secretary of State Business Search website.

Q And do you happen to know who the agent for
service of process is for Zip Third Investments LLC?
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25 A Yes, Norman Solomon.

Q Did you find that off of the California Secretary
of State website?
A Yes, I did.

Q Have you ever had communication with Mr. Solomon?
A No, I have not.

Q Or with anyone from Zip Third Investments LLC?
A No.

Q I'd like you to take a look at Exhibit 12. That
is page 198.

A I'm there, but it's just circling.

Q Okay. We'll give it a second.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Mr. Cole,
did you receive my direction to the page?
THE WITNESS: Let me look at my e-mail.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: No, it's
within CaseLines. So you didn't? That's fine.

THE WITNESS: I didn't get into CaseLines. I
signed on earlier. It's still circling. I apologize.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Are you able to access it through CaseLines? So
you should have gotten an e-mail with the link.

A I did. Let me see if I can get on there. The
computer is not allowing me to go into that site. Okay.

I'm in.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Are you in the review of the documents?
THE WITNESS: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm going
to send you a direction. Tell me if you get a pop up.

Did you get a pop up, Mr. Cole?
THE WITNESS: No, I did not.

MS. PETRUSIS: I did. I don't know why --
THE WITNESS: I do have that document in front of
me.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So I want to ask you, are you familiar with this
document that is the City's Exhibit 12?
A Yes.

Q And can you describe what this document is?
A It's a letter that I sent to Zip Third
Investments to let them know that there were violations that were going on at that particular property.

Q When did you send this letter?
A August 20, 2021.

Q And how did you send this letter?
A I believe I sent it regular mail.

Q Did you get a return to sender back on this?
A No. As I said, I believe I just sent it regular
mail.
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25 Q Right, but was it returned to you?
A No, it did not come back.

Q Specifically, what address did you send it to?
A 3055 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1010,
Los Angeles, California 90010. I since learned that I did put attention to Normam S. Sullivan as opposed to Solomon.

For some reason, I had that wrong in my letters and in my CC, but not when I printed the label. I had it correct on my printing label.

Q And how did you find the address to use for
Zip Third Investments?
A The California Secretary of State website.

Q Do you believe that Exhibit 12 is a true and
correct copy of the letter that you sent to Zip Third
Investments on August 20, 2021?
A Yes, I do.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, I would like to move
into evidence Exhibit 12.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, Exhibit 12 is admitted.
(Exhibit 12 was received in evidence.)
MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Can you read to us the last line on the body of
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25 the letter, please?
A "If you have any questions regarding this matter,
please contact me at 951-302-4116."
Q Is that your phone number at the City of
Temecula?
A Yes, it is.

Q Is that your particular desk phone?
A Yes, it is.

Q Did you ever receive a response from this letter
from anyone at Zip Third Investments?
A I did not.

Q Has anyone ever contacted you asking for more
information about violations at The Bank?
A No.

Q Have you sent copies of civil penalty letters to
Zip Third Investments?
A Yes, I have.

Q Approximately how many copies of civil penalty
letters have you sent to Zip Third Investments?
A Approximately 97.

Q 97?
A Yes.

Q And the civil penalty letters, when they went to
Zip Third Investments, were they directed to a particular person?
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25 A Yes.

Q And who was that?
A That was Norman S. Solomon.

Q And I'd like you to take a look at City's Exhibit
No. 11, and that's going to begin at page 87. Let me know when you get there.

A This one came up right away. Page 187?
Q No, just 87.

A Okay.

Q Okay. Are you familiar with the documents that
are contained in the City's Exhibit 11?
A Yes.

Q And what are they?
A Civil penalty letters.

Q Do you believe that they are true and correct
copies of civil penalty letters?
A I do.

Q And to whom were these civil penalty letters
addressed?
A CNC Puma Corporation, Brad Landon, dated for
service at 28693 Old Town Front Street, Suite 300,
Temecula, California 95090.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, I'd like to move into
evidence Exhibit No. 11.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
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Hearing none, Exhibit 11 is admitted.
(Exhibit 11 was received in evidence.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And I
admitted Exhibit 12 previously; correct?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Exhibit 11 and 12 are admitted.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Did you personally issue the civil -- let me
start again.

Did you personally issue the civil penalty
letters that are contained in City's Exhibit 11?
A I haven't gone through each and every one of
them. There may be a handful, or two or five, that I
didn't issue myself, but the rest of them, I did.

Q So if it wasn't by you, who would it have been
issued by?
A Either Nadya Bagdasarian or Maria Romite.

Q Yes, I see an example of that on page 190. Okay.

I'd like you to look at page 98, please.

A Okay.

Q Is this an example of a civil penalty letter that
was sent to Mr. Solomon of Zip Third Investments?
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25 A Yes.

Q And how can you tell that?
A His name is Sullivan. Again, I addressed it to
the right individual, but I CCed the wrong name. It's
Solomon at the bottom.

Q So the CC says Norman Sullivan, but when you
mailed the letter, the label said Norman Solomon?
A Correct. I put it correctly on the name,
Solomon, on my label, but when I put the CC, I put it as Sullivan.

Q And how certain are you that copies of the civil
penalty letters that were sent to Zip Third Investments were correctly mailed to Norman Solomon?
A I'm 100 percent certain that none of those
letters that were sent to that address ever came back to me.

Q Okay. And what was the address that you used to
send the civil penalty letters to Zip Third Investments? A 3055 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1010,
Los Angeles, California 90010.

Q Has anyone ever reached out to you in response to
any of these civil penalty letters?
A No.

MS. PETRUSIS: I don't have any further
questions, your Honor.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Before we start cross-examination, I know we have
been going for an hour and a half. I think it's
appropriate to take a quick break. I'm going to pause the recording. Off the record.
(There was a pause in the proceedings.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Back on
the record after the break.

Mr. Cole, do you understand you are still under
oath to tell the truth?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Mr. Callaway, cross-examination?
MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Good afternoon, Mr. Cole. You testified before
that you did some research, apparently, as a result of the complaint, and you went to research the CUPS for The Bank to determine what their operating hours are or were at
that time. Do you recall testifying to that?
A Yes, I do.

Q Can you tell me what specific action you took to
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A I went to Jaime Cardenas in the planning
department and requested that he pull the hours of
operation for The Bank.

Q And approximately what month and year was that?
A I would say around March of 2021.

Q And did Mr. Cardenas provide documentation to you
or did he then provide an opinion to you as to their
operating hours?
A He provided to me the hours of operation that
were in the modification of the Conditional Use Permit.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I can
barely hear you, Mr. Cole. Maybe you can move closer to the microphone.

THE WITNESS: Is that better?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: That's
much better. I believe you said that he provided you with the operating hours?
THE WITNESS: Correct, that were in the
modification -- the latest modification of the Conditional Use Permit.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q When you say he provided them to you, how did he
do that? Was it verbal? Was it written? Or did he
actually get you a copy of the applicable CUP and
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A He got me -- it was verbal, and he got me a copy
of the modification and the other attachments as well.

The original CUP, the first, and second modification.

Q When you say the first modification, are you
referring to the October 2008 modification?
A One of them included alcohol, that was the first
one. And I don't have it in front of me with the date,
but I'm assuming you're correct. And the second one was the entertainment piece.

Q Do you ever remember getting, from Mr. Cardenas,
a modification that extended hours?
A I think that was the first modification that went
with the Type 47 license.

Q Do you have -- are you certain about that or are
you guessing?
A Based on testimony today, I'm fairly certain.

I can look it up if you tell me the exhibit number.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway, I just want to make sure you are there. I can't see you, so I'm not sure if you went off.

MR. CALLAWAY: I thought I did that. My
apologies.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Do you have Exhibit 5 available to you, Mr. Cole?
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25 A Yes, sir. What page?
Q It starts on A-15.

A I'm on 15 now.

Q Do you recognize this as one of the documents
that Mr. Cardenas provided you?
A It appears to be the same.

Q And this pertained to the original CUP and the
Type 47 liquor license, does that sound consistent with your recollection?
A Yes.

Q And then you said the other one that you were
provided had to do with entertainment. I don't want to
mischaracterize your testimony. I believe that's what you said.

A Something like that, with the background music.

Whatever it's called.

Q Can you go to Exhibit 9, please?
A What page?
Q A-44.

A Okay. I'm there.

Q If you look at the subject line that it says
"Type 47" -- I'm going to go to the middle, "Type 47, ABC license to allow for dinner entertainment for the purpose of providing background music." Is that consistent with your recollection of what you were provided by
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A Yes.

Q Okay. Do you have a recollection of being
provided any other CUPS or modifications, minor or
otherwise, other than the two that we have just mentioned? A I believe the first -- the original Conditional
Use Permit was included in the entire package that he gave me.

Q But any other modification other than the ones we
discussed just now?
A No.

Q You said that you first started getting
complaints about The Bank operating beyond their hours in March of 2021; correct?
A Yes.

Q As a result of the complaint, did you personally
go down and visit The Bank or observe The Bank during
operating hours?
A Yes, I did.

Q How soon would that have been after the complaint
came in? An approximation. I know we are going back a
little bit. But if you remember, are we talking within a day or two or weeks or months? How quickly?
A It would have been the following weekend, because
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25 Friday and Saturday nights.

Q And as of the first time that you went down
there, had you already received the CUP and modification documentation from Mr. Cardenas that we have just been
discussing?
A Yes. Upon the complaint, I would have gone down
to him and asked to see the documents and discuss with him the hours of operation.

Q In your discussion with Mr. Cardenas at that
time, did you ever discuss the fact that the hours were extended to 2:00 a.m. pursuant to October 2008 minor
modification of the CUP?
A I don't recall.

Q The first time that you went down to visit
The Bank, did you initiate contact with anybody that you believed to be in ownership or management of the business? A No, it wouldn't have been in the field. I would
have just done an observation that they were, indeed open.

And I had already mentioned that it was either an e-mail or phone call with Mr. Puma.

Q And how soon after getting that complaint did you
communicate with Mr. Puma?
A I'm going to say within 10 days.

Q And, again, during the times that you have issued
violations or citations to The Bank, what was your
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A I believe at that time, a senior code enforcement
officer. And in the last year, I was reclassified as a
supervising code enforcement officer.

Q How about between 2012 and 2020, what would your
position have been?
A I'm thinking -- I would say closer to 2012, I was
a code enforcement officer II, and in 2020, I would have been a senior code enforcement officer.

Q Before becoming a senior code enforcement
officer, would your duties still have included issuing
violations and citations for people operating beyond
hours?
A Yes.

Q So that's not something that just changed in
2020, you had already had at least an eight -year history of having that authority; correct?
A I had the authority, yes.

Q In addition to having the authority, you would
have been the one to actually issue the citation and
violation letters?
A Had I had a complaint and observed a violation,
yes.

Q Did you receive any complaints about The Bank
operating beyond their allowable hour between 2012 and
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A I did not.

Q Same question. Between 2012 and 2020, did you
ever receive any complaints about The Bank serving alcohol beyond their allowable hours?
A No, I did not.

Q Have you ever issued any citations or civil
penalties to The Bank for noise violations?
A Yes, I have.

Q And do you know approximately how many?
A I don't have that number. I would guess around
12 to 15.

Q Bear with me for just a second. Do you have
Exhibit 13 available to you?
A Yes.

Q Starting at page 199 is the exhibit heading. If
you could go to page 205.

A Okay.

Q Under Condition No. 28-C. Can you tell me what
Condition 28-C is, if you know?
A Okay. 28-C. Okay. According to this, it says,
"Condition No. 28-C, Licensees may not permit their
licensed premises to become a disorderly house. A
disorderly house is defined as including the licensed
outlet on or off sale that, A, disturbs neighbors with
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25 noise, loud music, loitering, littering, vandalism,
urination, defecation, graffiti, et cetera; and/or, B, has many ongoing crimes inside such as drunks, fights,
assaults, prostitution, narcotics, et cetera. The
licensed premises includes the parking lot."
Q And paragraph 5 entitled Violations, can you read
that for me?
A Sure.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And
Mr. Callaway, I'm going to stop you here for a second. I apologize, my preference is not to have witnesses read
documents into the record. There's multiple reasons for that, not the least, which is our poor court reporter
might start crying here any minute. It's very difficult to keep up. People read very fast. So, again, if a
document is in evidence, and I believe that one is,
there's no reason to read it into record.

MR. CALLAWAY: It is, your Honor. I appreciate
that. Understood.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Mr. Cole, paragraph 5, Violations, there are 17
violations noted below, stretching from April 9, 2021 with a $50.00 citation, down to June 12, 2021, with a $250.00 citation. And, actually, beyond that, date wise, it looks like the latest one was July 3, 2021, for a $250.00
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A Yes, I do.

Q Were you the one who issued those violations?
A Without specifically looking at the citation, I
would say chances are quite good that I issued all of
those.

Q Do you know why those citations ended with the
last date being July 3, 2021?
A Yes, I do.

Q And what was the reason?
A They turned their music down and took their
speakers -- took them from being outside. They removed
all of the speakers that were projecting music outside.

Q And was that the result of you speaking with
somebody there directly at The Bank?
A I believe so.

Q Do you know who that was?
A Chris Caipo.

Q And what was your understanding at that time of
Chris's position relative to The Bank?
A That he was a contract DJ.

Q How long did it take from you -- let me back it
up.

You spoke to him directly, then?
A I did, yes.
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decibel issue?
A Yes, I did.

Q Did you provide him with any suggestions on how
to, or was it something he handled on his own?
A He handled it on his own in lieu of me issuing
him a citation directly.

Q So you had discussed with him issuing a citation
directly and personally to him?
A Correct.

Q How long after you had that discussion was the
problem abated?
A I believe the following week.

Q Any issues with that since that time?
A Not with the noise, no.

Q Okay.

A I take that back. You know, when I reflect, I
believe after the speakers went inside, I started
receiving complaints about Sundays with the noise, so I did go down there and had been going down on Sundays to monitor the noises. And it may have taken a few weeks for them to realize I was there on Sundays. And I believe
once they realized it, they started to comply.

Q Did you issue any citations or violations related
to your Sunday visits?
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have to look at the dates of these to see.

Q And do you believe that that problem has been
resolved?
A Yes.

Q You testified about going down to The Bank after
11:00 p.m. and seeing people inside drinking. Do you
recall that testimony?
A Yes.

Q Do you recall people eating food?
A No.

Q Do you know one way or the other whether food
service was available in The Bank while you were making those observations?
A I don't have information one way or the other on
that.

Q You testified about the decibel noise level at

70. Is that number, that 70 decibel level, applicable to any time of the day or after a certain time?
A It's all day and all night long.

Q Seven days a week?
A Correct.

MR. CALLAWAY: I don't have any further
questions. Thank you, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.
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25 Ms. Martyn, cross-examination?
MS. MARTYN: Thank you, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Mr. Cole, just a couple of questions. First, the
August 20th letter that we talked about, it is Exhibit
No. 12. I don't know if you need to pull it up or not.

It's a simple question.

A Go ahead.

Q It's not signed, and it's only dated in the
footer. Do you know why that is?
A I would have signed the original. And it's only
dated in the footer because that's the only place I dated it.

Q Okay.

A It's not typical to send a letter like that out.

Q Okay. So what we have heard from Mr. Watson's
testimony is that there were two addresses that were used for Mr. Solomon. I'll call him the property owner if
that's okay. Do you know why some of the materials were mailed to The Bank and some were mailed to the Wilshire address?
MS. PETRUSIS: Objection. I don't know which
materials we are talking about.
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That's fine.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Let me ask about the administrative citations.

And, I mean -- by which I mean the actual administrative citations. Because there's two sets of citations, the
administrative citations and what you call the civil
penalties; right?
A Yes.

Q So the first set of administrative citations, did
you serve those personally or did you mail those?
A I mailed those certified and regular mail.

Q And you mailed them to The Bank?
A I mailed them to the agent for service for
The Bank.

Q Okay. And then on the civil penalties, you
mailed those to the addressees for The Bank, but you also mailed regular mail to Mr. Solomon who is CCed as
Mr. Sullivan; is that correct?
A That is correct. I did not initially mail the
civil penalties to Mr. Solomon. We discussed internally about, does the owner know? Let's let the owner know. So I sent that letter that we discussed on August 20th. I
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Q I guess I'm confused then. There were no civil
penalties at that point in time, only administrative
citations. Civil penalties began on February 26th of
2022. I believe I'm talking about the difference between what looks like a ticket and the letter.

A The ones that look like a ticket --
Q Yes. Those are the admin cites; right?
A I can look and tell you when the last one was
issued.

Q No --
A It would have been about February 2021. I take
it back. A couple months after that. Because I initially started with administrative citations, and I issued 35 of those. So maybe some time around -- I'd have to look.

Q It's okay.

A I started with the civil penalty letters and I
started copying Mr. Solomon on August 20, 2021, to
current.

Q Well, lets try that again. I know that you
indicated that you mailed, by regular mail, the August
20th letter. And I believe you indicated that you mailed, to his address, the civil penalty letter that you -- that you discussed; is that correct?
A Yes.
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25 Q Okay. Sorry. I didn't mean to confuse you. I
apologize. So if we look at the civil penalty letter,
which is Exhibit -- it was page 198. It's the one that
you used with Ms. Petrusis. So Exhibit 11, page 198.

A Exhibit 11?
Q Exhibit 11, page 198. It's the same one she
asked you to look at.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: That's
Exhibit 12, not Exhibit 11. Page A-198.

MS. MARTYN: No. I have Exhibit 12 as the
August 20th letter.

MS. PETRUSIS: It's page 98.

MS. MARTYN: 98, and it is Exhibit 11?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes.

MS. MARTYN: Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I'm
sorry.

BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Okay. So Exhibit 11, page 98. The same one you
were looking at before.

A Okay. Give me a second.

Q Take your time.

A Okay.

Q Okay. Can you look at the first paragraph -- the
second paragraph, first sentence. And I'll only read a
little bit of it. It says, "Pursuant to Temecula Code
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25 1.24.040, this correspondence shall serve as your official notice and order to pay a fine of $1,000.00 for continued violations of Code Section 17.04.010." Do you know what

17.04.010 is?
A Yes, but I'm looking at page 98 in Exhibit 11.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Yes. I
don't see 17.04.010 on page 98. Maybe we are looking at a different page, Ms. Martyn.

MS. MARTYN: What code section do you see?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: 9.20.040,
Sound Standards.

MS. MARTYN: Okay. Let me get out a different --
let me ask a couple of more questions, and I will get out a different paper.

BY MS. MARTYN:

Q So to go back, you mailed these regular mail in
general; isn't that correct?
A That is correct. I mailed them regular mail to
Mr. Solomon and Ms. Moore and to the agent of service, and I mailed them certified and regular mail.

Q Okay. Great. So let me -- I know you are going
to have to look at them to answer this, so I'm reluctant to ask. Are all of the civil penalty letters the same?
A They are similar.

Q Okay. Can we look at the first civil penalty
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25 letter?
A What page number is that?
Q Page 87, I believe.

A In Exhibit 11?
Q Yes, sir.

A And page 87?
Q Yes.

A Okay.

Q Okay. So I want to ask about the same language
that I asked you about on page 98. It says that there
were violations of the Temecula Code Section 17.04.010.

A Yes.

Q Okay. Is that correct?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And do all of the civil penalty letters
say the same thing, or does it change at some point?
A It changes based on the code and the dollar
amount.

Q What do you mean "based on the code"? The dollar
amount, of course, changed. I understand that.

A I'm trying to answer your question.

Q Okay. So I understand the dollar amount changed.

How did it change based on the code?
A This is an initial fine on the civil penalties,
so it was for $500.00.
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25 Q Okay.

A The code allows us to go up to $1,000.00, which
we did, and then the Temecula Municipal Code would change based on the code that they're violating --
Q Okay. Go ahead.

A For the other violation of the noise ordinance
that we talked about in Section 9, and then also the
occupancy -- there was a couple of things that were
written for being over occupancy.

Q So is there a civil penalty letter on page 88 or
89 that is for violation of Temecula Municipal Code

17.04.010?
A Can you repeat the question, please?
Q So I'm looking at a copy of the civil penalty
notice and order from February 26th, that refers to a
violation of the Municipal Code Section 17.04.010.

MS. PETRUSIS: I don't see the February 26th.

MS. MARTYN: February 26, 2022.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I don't
know where you are reading from. I don't know what page you are on. Are you on page 8 or 88?
MS. MARTYN: They're in the record. We won't --
THE WITNESS: February 26, 2022.

MS. PETRUSIS: Mr. Cole, there's no pending
question.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Wait,
Mr. Cole.

Okay. Ms. Martyn, now we are getting confusing
because we are on different pages.

MS. MARTYN: Yes. I'm sorry. Mr. Cole, I
believe, has found the page.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: What page
would that be exactly, so I can follow along, Ms. Martyn? MS. MARTYN: I was waiting for you. You had
asked Mr. Cole a question.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: No. I'm
asking you what page are we referencing for your question, Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: I can't tell because the page I have
doesn't match what you have.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: So you
don't have Bates numbers at all?
MS. MARTYN: I have Bates numbers of the page,
but I don't have it on this page. But he found the page, so perhaps he can answer the question.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I need to
know what page he's on.

MS. MARTYN: Does he know what page it's on?
THE WITNESS: I'm looking at the copy of the
original citation. I'm not looking at the exhibits.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: So that's
a problem. I need to know what document he's looking at, Ms. Martyn.

MS. MARTYN: Then we can, perhaps, come back to
it later after I look it up. And then I will do that. I believe Ms. Petrusis has another witness, and I will look up the exact pages.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Well, I
mean, this witness is under oath. Now is the time to ask questions. I'm not bringing him back.

MS. MARTYN: Either we let it go or I need to go
into CaseLines and pull that up.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Then you need to go into CaseLines and pull that up. Now is your time to ask the question. So we are not going to bring him back in because we weren't on the right page.

MS. MARTYN: We will just leave the question. I
think there's enough -- I think there's enough here to be raised if I need to later.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. I
mean, the document is in evidence, so the document speaks for itself.

MS. MARTYN: The documents are in evidence. They
do speak for themselves. That's sufficient. I won't
torment Mr. Cole anymore.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
further questions for Mr. Cole?
MS. MARTYN: No.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
redirect, Ms. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: No, I don't. Thank you, your
Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

In that case, Mr. Cole, you may be released. Thank you
for your time.

THE WITNESS: Thank you.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And
Ms. Petrusis, just to let you know, I only have one
exhibit that has not been admitted on yours, and that's Exhibit 15.

MS. PETRUSIS: And I'm not entirely sure I'm
going to being asking to move it into evidence.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

That's fine. Do you have any further witnesses,
Mr. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: I do. So just to give you a heads
up and counsel a heads up, next I have Sergeant Hephner from the Riverside County Sheriff's Department, and then I have two civilian witnesses after that.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. You
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25 have a total of three witnesses. And for our timing and looking at this, this set for one more day. I'm hoping
that we have sufficient time.

Ms. Martyn and Mr. Callaway, can you maybe give
me an estimate of your witnesses you will have testify? MR. CALLAWAY: Yes, your Honor. Three.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And
Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: Two, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Do we
think we have sufficient time for one more day to get all of this covered?
MS. MARTYN: No.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Can you
tell me how long the witnesses are going to take? Are we talking an hour each, or how much time will it take? At this point, I think it might make sense to continue on
with Ms. Petrusis's witness and see where we are at the end of the day, and then we will circle back on that issue at some point tomorrow if I feel like we don't have enough time, then I may continue this for an additional day of hearing. And I can tell you right now, it's not going to be this week. I have other hearings to deal with, so we will have to deal with finding a date. Okay?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, ma'am.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW
JUDGE
NYE-PERKINS:

All right.

Ms. Petrusis, your
next
witness.

MS. PETRUSIS: Yes.

The
City would like
to call
Sergeant Hephner.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW
JUDGE
NYE-PERKINS:

All right.

Sergeant Hephner, are you there?
SERGEANT HEPHNER:

I am.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW
JUDGE
NYE-PERKINS:

Can you
have your camera on?
SERGEANT HEPHNER:

It is
on.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW
JUDGE
NYE-PERKINS:

Okay. Now
I can see you. Sergeant, I'm
going
to place you under
oath. Can you please raise
your
right hand?

JOSHUA HEPHNER,
called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn by the administrative law judge, was examined and testified as follows:

WITNESS: I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. You
can put your hand down. And, now, could you please state and spell your full name for me?
THE WITNESS: Joshua Hephner, J-O-S-H-U-A
H-E-P-H-N-E-R.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Thank you, Sergeant Hephner.

Ms. Petrusis.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Sergeant, where are you currently employed?
A I'm currently employed with Riverside County
Sheriff's Department, Southwest Station that is contracted to serve the City of Temecula.

Q And just to get this out of the way, is it
commonly referred to as the Temecula Police Department? A Yes.

Q So even though we call it the Temecula Police
Department, it is staffed by members of the Sheriff's
Department; correct?
A Correct.

Q How long have you been a peace officer?
A Since 2010, so 12 years or so.

Q And what is your current rank and assignment?
A Sergeant assigned to our Metro Team which
consists of the Old Town Temecula area.

Q Have you ever worked in a gang -related
investigation assignment as a peace officer?
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25 A Yes, I did.

Q And can you tell us approximately when that
assignment was?
A Yeah. From about 2017 to 2020, give or take,
somewhere in there. I was assigned to Moreno Valley
Station where I was assigned to our Special Enforcement Team Gang Unit where I dealt with gang enforcement on a daily basis.

Q Did you receive specialized training for that
assignment?
A Yes. I'm also a gang expert for Riverside
County, deemed an expert by the court.

Q How long have you worked in the City of
Temecula's specific assignment?
A Since January -- New Years Eve, so 12/31 of 2020.

So my first full year was 2021.

Q Okay. And so since that time you have been
assigned in some capacity to the City of Temecula Police Department?
A Yes. The first year I was on graveyard here in
Temecula, where I worked Wednesday through Saturday, which I still work now. And the hours I worked on graveyard, I spent a lot of time in Old Town Temecula when the Metro Team was formed and Sergeant Pearson was the supervisor of the team at the time.
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25 Q So I'd like to now start talking about the Old
Town area of Temecula. At some point did the Temecula
Police Department notice particular issues or challenges with the Old Town area?
A Yes. I would say it probably really started
around COVID, the major pandemic. A lot of the other
cities -- surrounding cities were shutting down their bars and nightlife per the governor's orders. And as things
started to open back up, Temecula opened up, I believe, a little sooner than most, so we were having an influx, I guess you could say, of people coming from outside of the area creating bigger numbers down in Temecula that were causing issues. That all transpired some time in 2020.

Q And you mentioned "causing issues." Can you be
more specific? What were the specific issues?
A Yeah. So you kind of get a mix of people from
different areas and backgrounds, and then with more people along with, you know, alcohol, and results of overserving of people, which leads to fights, frequent fights,
disturbances that deputies are responding to, and
significant amount more DUIs and things of that nature.

Q Okay. And so what, if anything, did the police
department do in response to this rise in these issues? A So in March of 2021, the City created a -- what
is now called the Metro Team, which is now a team of
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25 myself, a corporal, and six deputies that are in vehicles and two motorcycle officers, along with a community
Q And what was the purpose of the Metro Team?
A So the purpose really was for the people or the
deputies assigned to the team to provide a safer
environment for the Old Town area being that, you know, it's seven blocks or so to cover. There are a ton of
bars, restaurants, and small businesses in the area that we primarily serve.

The purpose of that was to build relationships
with the business owners and the public down there to,
like I said, make them feel more safe and to try to deter some of the uptick in crime that we were seeing by having a larger footprint or presence in the area.

Now that it's more saturated by law enforcement,
you probably can find, you know, a deputy on a corner at any given time in Old Town while our team is there.

Q And how often would the team go out -- what was
your typical -- for lack of a better word -- shift for the Metro people?
A Primarily, now we work Wednesday through
Saturday. Thursday through Saturday are really, probably, the busier days in Old Town. I say that because the
nightlife down there is what is really the primary area of www.di� esassociates.com
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25 concern. During the day, it's just the regular, everyday shoppers and tourism and businesses down there, and I
don't really see a ton of issues. It comes in the
evening.

So Thursday through Saturday, we work 3:00 p.m.
to 3:00 a.m. And like I said, pretty much, there's, like, a regular dinner crowd, I would say, up until about 9:00 or 10:00 p.m. at the latest, then you can see a shift in the people that are down there. It morphs into more of a nightclub -type vibe.

Q Okay. Are you familiar with a restaurant called
The Bank?
A I am.

Q Where is it located?
A It's on the corner of Old Town Front Street and
Main Street. 28645 Old Town Front Street.

Q At some point did the police department notice
particular issues with The Bank?
A Yes. Shortly after the Metro Team was formed --
like I said, it was formed under Sergeant Pearson, who
first had the team in March of 2021, and I believe until June or so. He told me that he saw a larger -- he saw
issues begin to arise with overserving at The Bank,
disturbances caused as a result of that overserving, and, like I mentioned, more DUIs and fights. And then there's www. dilr3apesassociates.com
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25 also some complaints that some of the security were a little heavy handed. Those were complaints from citizens that were there.

Q Okay. And I apologize. Just to kind of keep the
chronology straight. If the Metro Team was formed in
about March of 2021, when did you join the Metro Team?
A In October of 2021.

Q Okay. So have you personally noticed, or
observed, I should say, those types of incidents at or
connected to The Bank?
A Yes.

Q Okay. So let's start off with -- I mean, you can
start with describing whichever incident that you want to start with. I'd like you to describe, in as much detail, the incidents that you have personally observed at
The Bank, to the best of your recollection, that you
believe are connected with how The Bank is operated.

A Okay. Well, like I said, I believe a huge part
of the issues come from overserving. People become,
obviously, more belligerent and a little more out of
control with alcohol, as you can expect.

So throughout my time so far on Metro, being
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25 we have down there, I would say that we are all in
agreement that there's several fights that -- you know, physical altercations that we observed up to and including a homicide, which I'm not sure if it has been touched yet upon in this meeting.

But I guess I can start there, with the homicide
that occurred in -- I want to say it was January. Let me make sure I have the date correct here. January 9th of
this year, there was the homicide at The Bank involving a member or an ex -employee -- an ex -security guard of
The Bank who was murdered on the patio there at The Bank.

I was not working the evening of the incident.

However, being assigned to supervise that team, you know, I was briefed on the incident and well -aware of what
occurred.

Q Let me stop you there. Is that -- was it
regarding a shooting at The Bank?
A Yes.

Q Okay. So we can call that the January 2022
shooting. And what is the status of the investigation and any criminal prosecution? Because I want to be mindful of not disclosing information that could be detrimental to the ongoing prosecution.

A Yes. So two suspects were arrested in that case.

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25 accessory to the murder, and the primary murder suspect is still pending trial. That, obviously, will take some time in the court process --
Q I didn't mean to interrupt you.

A That's okay. I was going to give just a brief
initial synopsis of the incident, not to jeopardize any part of the investigation. I believe most of it has been completed. It's just pending in court.

However, as I started to mention, it was a
shooting that occurred. There was a disturbance between patrons on the patio, and the subject, who was murdered, was a prior employee of The Bank. He was a security guard who, I believe -- I'm not sure. I can't remember if he
was terminated from The Bank or what.

However, that incident -- or that leads me to
another topic of security. And I'm not sure if we want to cover that now or later, or talk about this first?
Q We'll talk about the issue surrounding the
security personnel. So this January 2002 shooting, did it happen on The Bank's premises?
A Yes.

Q And you can just generally describe the facts
surrounding the shooting?
A Sure. So there was a disturbance between
multiple subjects in what looks like was between two
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25 different males on the patio of The Bank. It escalated into one of them pulling a firearm out, a handgun, and
shooting at the other as he began to run away.

During the shooting, the primary victim was hit
and deceased, and there were other subjects, patrons that were standing outside on the patio as well, nearby, that were hit as well, that were uninvolved.

Q So how many people were injured in total as a
result of that incident?
A I want to say -- I don't have the report in front
of me because they're locked because it's a homicide. And I don't have access to all of them; however, I want to say at least three.

Q Okay. And do you remember what time the incident
happened?
A It was at, like, 10:40, I believe, in the
evening.

Q Okay. And during -- I'm sorry. You mentioned a
January date -- January 9, 2021?
A 2022.

Q I'm sorry. You are right. January 9, 2022.

A Yes.

Q Okay. Did you receive any information about
whether alcohol was involved at all in this incident?
A Whether anyone involved was drinking? I believe
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25 they were, yes.

Q The victim, you mentioned, was a former security
guard at The Bank. How did you find that out?
A From my assignment down there. When I heard the
name of the victim, I was -- I had already -- I was
already familiar with the victim due to prior incidents involving him at The Bank. So I already knew previously that he was a security guard there.

Q And when you mentioned previous incidents
involving this person, what are you referring to?
A There were -- there was one incident, I, for sure
can, recall, where he was the suspect in a violent assault that occurred inside of The Bank near the -- kind of the dance floor near to the stage where he got into a physical altercation and he, essentially, knocked somebody out and they fell back and hit their head on the stage and had to be hospitalized and required some stitches.

Q And were you familiar with the criminal history
of this individual, this security guard?
A Yes. He was, I believe, on probation and had
been previously convicted of other crimes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I didn't
hear what you said. He was on probation and --
THE WITNESS: Been previously convicted of other
crimes.
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25 BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Those crimes, were they felonies?
A I believe so. I don't have his criminal history
in front of me, but from what I remember at the time, yes.

Q So the victim of the shooting that happened on
The Bank's premises, he was a former security guard of
The Bank, and he was on probation and had been previously convicted of a felony -- at least one felony?
A Yes.

Q Is there anything else about that shooting
incident that you feel is important to this proceeding
that we didn't already discuss?
A No.

Q Are you familiar with a November 2021 shooting
incident at Old Town Temecula?
A Yes.

Q And can you describe the circumstances
surrounding that shooting?
A Yes. So that one occurred near The Bank on Main
and Front. There were patrons at The Bank who were there.

I don't recall if they had been drinking or not; however, I believe so. They were there celebrating a birthday, if I remember correctly, and at some point in time, somebody that was with the group at The Bank got into some verbal altercation with somebody else that was outside of
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25 The Bank. And just -- I don't know, I'm trying to
estimate feet. Maybe 150 to 100 feet just on Main Street near The Bank is where the shooting occurred.

So there was the initial verbal altercation, it
moved outside, and a shooting occurred on the sidewalk
outside of The Bank, and that victim was taken to the
hospital by somebody. And a suspect, I believe, was
identified in that case. And I'm not sure about the
adjudication on that as to what occurred.

Q Okay. So we have now talked about two shootings.

Are you aware of any other shootings that happened in
Old Town Temecula that have some sort of connection to
The Bank?
A Not in my time being there.

Q So you mentioned kind of a laundry list of other
types of incidents, DUIs, and I believe you mentioned
assaults. Can you tell me about these other incidents
that you have personally, in some way, been involved in or have witnessed either at The Bank or connected, in your opinion, to The Bank?
A Yes. So I'll speak first to DUIs, for example.

Actually, before we do that, can I just back up really
quick to just after the homicide occurred? Just because it's kind of close in time, I just want to make sure it's out there.
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25 Q Sure. What else did you want to add?
A After the homicide in January, obviously, we were
concerned, as I'm sure everyone else was in Old Town when there is a shooting where someone was murdered. So we
tried to up the presence a little more in Old Town.

Obviously, people were aware and people were upset and
asking questions, and you know, is it safe to be down
here, and so on and so forth.

So during that time, during one of my proactive
enforcements in the area, I stopped and spoke with
somebody in front of The Bank -- and let me get the date.

On January 13th, so just a few dates after the shooting -- there was a candlelight vigil and some roses -- candles were set up out front of The Bank for the victim. I just stopped by and spoke to someone who was there.

I ended up getting their -- through a
conversation, getting their information. They provided me a false name. And through additional investigation, I
figured out who it actually was. The gentleman ended up having a loaded gun in his fanny pack that was attached to his body as I was speaking with him near The Bank. So he was a convicted felon unable to possess a firearm.

So that was as another arrest at The Bank
involving a firearm, like I said, just days after a
homicide. So I would like to say that those types of
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25 proactive enforcement -type of arrests, and possibly prevented another homicide or violent assault from
occurring.

Q Okay. Thank you.

A You are welcome.

Q So returning back to the list of other incidents
that you have personally observed or been, in some way, connected with that, in your opinion, either happened at The Bank or connected to The Bank. Can you give us some more information about that?
A Yes. So I'll start first with DUIs. For
example, when we stop subjects for possible DUI or DUI
investigation in Old Town or somebody leaving Old Town, the deputies will ask the people, you know, where they
were coming from. There were, you know, several times
where people would say, "I'm coming from The Bank,"
therefore, tying those DUIs back to The Bank.

Granted, there are others that come from other
places. I'm not saying they are all from The Bank;
however, there are several.

Assaults, we sometimes see those happen in front
of us. They may not even be a call for service that's
generated. Like I said, there's eight deputies or so
assigned to the team that drive up and down that street very frequently on a regular basis.
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25 And we do have good relationships with the
businesses. And we will see a fight, you know, that
occurs in front of The Bank on several occasions from the time that I've been on the team. Some of those are, like I said, calls for services that are generated, and some are ones that we see where they may not necessarily be a call for service.

As far as a number to give you of assaults, I
honestly can't give you a solid number. All I can say is there's several. We deal with several assaults a night, but not all there. However, like I said, they do occur
there on a regular basis. When I say "at The Bank,"
meaning sometimes on the premises itself or directly in front of or adjacent to on some sidewalks near The Bank.

I have also seen times where the security guards
at The Bank will -- there will be some kind of assault or disturbance that's occurring, and they will push it out into the street to try to get it away from The Bank. And I personally have observed that myself. I know the
deputies on my team have as well.

Q What about instances of public intoxication?
A Public intoxication as a result of overserving,
that's another frequent event that goes back when we
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25 in front of The Bank, once again, or it may be down the street one way or the other. However, we ask these people as well, when they're arrested, where they were, and there are several instances where patrons say that they were
drinking at The Bank.

Q Okay. These instances that you have described,
the DUIs, the assaults, the fights, generally what time of the day are they happening?
A Most incidents happen or occur after 10:00 p.m.
for sure, but usually closer to midnight to 2:00 a.m.

Q And have you personally observed The Bank
operating after 11:00 p.m. on the weekend?
A Every weekend, yes.

Q Every weekend. And so these criminal incidents
that you have testified about, are they happening after, for the most part, 11:00 p.m.?
A A majority of them I would say that's safe to
say.

Q Okay. Have you had any concerns about the
security personnel at The Bank?
A Yes.

Q Can you describe why?
A Yes. And I think we have met with The Bank
ownership. When I say "we," my captain, lieutenant,
myself, regarding, you know, issues at The Bank in
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25 general, but also involving security.

So my concerns that have been voiced before are
that some of the security have had criminal records, as has already been previously described with the homicide victim, on probation. Just not going through the proper licensing procedure to have licensed security guards.

And I believe that they may be doing that now;
however, during the time we were having these -- most of these issues, a lot of them, you know, they were not
licensed. Not there to -- I would say they were
antagonizing more frequently than they should. They
shouldn't be at all. They are professionals.

And there were other instances where -- there was
one instance in particular on the November shooting that we spoke about, where deputies responded to investigate.

And they spoke with some of the witnesses around. One of the witnesses identified was a security guard, who, the owner, Amanda, only knew as "Venom," I believe was the
name given, which is a moniker or nickname.

And when the deputies asked what Venom's real
name was, she could not provide that to the deputies -- either could not or would not. Either way, they could not get that information. And then when trying to speak to
him about what he witnessed, he was uncooperative and
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25 that, considering we, you know, try to work together down there with these businesses and have these good
relationships, even with the security.

So when we respond to the incidents like that, we
like to have full cooperation, especially if it's
something they witnessed and they have information that can help assist us in resolving that incident. Just along those lines of, like I said, him using the name Venom or a moniker, it's --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm sorry.

Did you say "Venom"?
THE WITNESS: Venom, like, snake venom.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

THE WITNESS: When I hear those types of things
being used -- there is security guards with other monikers and nicknames there. But the first thing that comes to my mind in having the gang background, is that I know
gangsters to use monikers. They don't use real names,
they don't want people to know their names, and they are uncooperative most times.

So coming from that background and going there
and seeing a security guard who only wants to provide a moniker and is less than cooperative, I don't know if he is or was a gang member. I don't want to assume that, but that's what it appears based upon the actions that were www.di13472.9882
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25 taken, from my experience.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Now, in your opinion, as a member of the Metro
Team, as a member of law enforcement specifically assigned to this area in Old Town Temecula, is how The Bank
operates connected to at least some of the criminal
activity that you have testified about?
A Yes.

Q And why do you say that?
A Why? Like I said, the overserving and statements
given by people involved in incidents kind of speaks for itself. The overserving is a large issue that results in a lot of these incidents occurring. Then having security there that attracts -- you know, when you have people
working there that are on probation, a criminal record, et cetera, those people are generally not hanging out with the most upstanding citizens, and usually hang out with other probationers and people that have criminal records.

I'm not saying that's all the time, however,
that's been my experience. So I believe -- it's my
opinion that some of the security is attracting or
bringing, you know, friends to the location that are
probably less than desirable that may be adding or aiding to the issues that they're having.

MS. PETRUSIS: Okay. Thank you. I don't have
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25 any further questions.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Thank you.

All right. Before we start cross-examination, I
think we
might need to take another break here real quick.

It's
3:47, and we are going to -- now it's 3:48. I'm
going to
take a 10-minute break off the record here, and
I'll pop
back on at 3:58. Off the record.
(There was a pause in the proceedings.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

We are
back on the record after the break.

Sergeant Hephner, do you understand you
are still
under oath to tell the truth?
THE WITNESS: I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Okay.

Mr. Callaway, cross-examination?
MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Good afternoon, Sergeant Hephner.

A Good afternoon, sir.

Q You testified about a vigil outside of The Bank
following the homicide there; correct?
A Yes.

Q Do you recall that happening on January 13th?
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25 A The vigil?
Q Correct.

A Yes, I believe it was kind of an ongoing
candlelight thing. For multiple days, people would stop by and visit on different nights.

Q You said that you arrested somebody who had a
concealed handgun; correct?
A Yes.

Q To your knowledge, was that person ever inside
The Bank?
A They were on their property. I'm not sure if
The Bank was open. To the best of my recollection, I
don't believe The Bank was open for business that day or had the doors open. They had the candles out front. They were on the patio area near The Bank near the steps.

Q And that was my next question. Do you have an
opinion of whether The Bank was open at that time?
A I don't believe the business was open. I think
they were closed because of the incident.

Q So when you say "vigil," are you talking about
flowers, momentos, things of that nature?
A I think by that date there were some candles
left. I don't think it was a large footprint or as large as it was the day after the incident.

Q And those items, as part of the vigil, were they
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25 on The Bank property?
A From what I recall, they were near, like, the top
of the steps, like, a rail -- a guardrail if, I remember correctly.

Q And the person you arrested for carrying a
concealed weapon, was he there -- is it your understanding he was there to attend the vigil?
A Yes. I believe he told us that he came to pay
his respects to the victim.

Q Okay. Just so I have it clear, the vigil is on
the property of The Bank, and this person was arrested for a conceal -- for a concealed weapon was at the vigil?
A Yes. He was on the property, correct.

Q So would you agree that his carrying the weapon
and your arrest of him or your fellow deputies arrest of him had anything to do with what The Bank was doing or not doing? Would you agree with that?
A I would say the type of people attracted to
The Bank such as the subject carrying -- a felon carrying a firearm, I would say that, yes, it does have to do with The Bank.

Q But he was there for the vigil.

MS. PETRUSIS: I'm sorry. Objection. There's no
pending question.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: He's asked
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25 this question a few times. I think we have covered that ground quite thoroughly.

MR. CALLAWAY: Okay.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Sergeant, the shooting in November, were you
present in responding to that?
A No.

Q You said that you believe it occurred near
The Bank; is that correct?
A Yes. Through review of the incident reports
and -- I believe there's video surveillance as well.

Q How close to The Bank did you believe the
shooting to be when the shooting occurred?
A It was on Main Street, I believe, near, like --
there's a little driveway to the rear parking lot that
probably occurred, I would say, 100 feet, max.

Q Do you know of a business by the name of
Pennypickles?
A Yes.

Q Do you believe that the shooting occurred out in
front of Pennypickles on the sidewalk?
A I believe it occurred between The Bank and
Pennypickles, probably a little closer to Pennypickles
than The Bank where the actual shooting took place.

Q Were you aware of any deputies going to The Bank
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25 to review video surveillance to see if anybody involved in that shooting had been at The Bank?
A I remember them telling me, yes, that they went
to The Bank to review video.

Q Did they tell you that after reviewing the video,
that they came to the determination that the people
involved in the shooting had not been at The Bank?
A No.

Q Who were the people -- who were the deputies that
you spoke to that you believe went to The Bank?
A I can't remember the specific deputies -- after
reviewing all of the incident reports from that date to tell you specifically.

Q So as you're testifying today, what do you
believe The Bank's involvement was in that shooting?
A Like I said, the patrons involved that were part
of the incident left The Bank just prior to the incident occurring. And I believe that was from statements given from the actual people involved, is that they were at
The Bank and an argument ensued, which resulted in a
shooting that occurred outside of The Bank.

Q Is there anything that you believe The Bank could
have done differently to prevent the shooting?
A Well, I'm not 100 percent in that incident. Like
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25 mention of overserving, that may have led or aided in that incident.

Q So as you sit here now, you are not aware of
anything specific or with any degree of certainty about The Bank contributing to that shooting by overserving; is that correct?
A Not specifically, correct.

Q The shooting that occurred that ultimately
resulted in the death in January?
A Yes.

Q It's your belief that the person who was killed
used to be an employee of The Bank; correct?
A That is correct.

Q Do you know where he was an employee of at the
time of his death?
A I believe Espadin, another restaurant.

Q Do you have an understanding as to how long prior
to the shooting that he had been terminated from The Bank? A I don't know.

Q Is there anything that you believe The Bank did
to contribute to the incident?
A Not specifically, no.

Q Okay. You've identified an individual by the
name of Venom. Could you be mistaken that the name was
Virus?
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25 A Yes, that may have been.

Q Do you know how Virus got his nickname?
A No. I don't really care.

Q Well, you testified earlier that you were drawing
some type of connection with your involvement in your
expertise in gangs that it sounded like a gang name, and he did not want to provide you his name, so you drew that conclusion; correct?
A Correct. I'm saying my opinion, based on my
training and experience, that gang members frequently
refer to themselves as monikers or nicknames.

Q So if somebody told you that Virus got his name
because he was an artist -- that was his artistic name, would that change your opinion of him?
A As far as being cooperative with the police?
Q Well, you basically labeled him a gang member
before because of his moniker.

MS. PETRUSIS: Objection. That misstates his
prior testimony. He didn't label him as a gang member.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Yeah.

Okay. Objection sustained. I mean, maybe you can
rephrase the question, Mr. Callaway. I think we are
getting a tad argumentative. I also think he answered
the question.

The question was, so if someone told you that
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25 Virus got his name because he is an artist, would that change your opinion of him, and I believe your answer was "no." Am I correct?
THE WITNESS: Yes.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Okay. Why wouldn't that change your opinion of
him if you found out that his moniker came from a reason other than being a gang member?
MS. PETRUSIS: Objection. Incomplete
hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm going
to overrule the objection to the extent you understand the question.

You can answer it, Sergeant.

THE WITNESS: Sorry. It's getting a little
convoluted. However, I would say that it doesn't really change my opinion. I believe -- I'm speaking to the fact of having security who is cooperative in providing
information as far as their identification and a story as to what they witnessed to law enforcement.

And I also said that, previously, that from my
training and experience, that I know that gang members
refer to themselves as monikers. I never once labeled him as a gang member because I don't have documentation of him being a gang member, so I wouldn't do that. I'm just
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25 saying that type of activity, the actions that were taken, lead me to believe that some of that may be occurring. I have no documentation of him specifically, so I won't
label him a gang member.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Okay. Fair enough. I appreciate that.

Did you ever come to know his name as Luis
Menendez?
A Yes, we may have, days or, maybe, weeks after the
incident.

Q Do you recall if he ever approached you and gave
you his name?
A Like I said, I believe so, yes, long after the
incident occurred. After some -- maybe talking to by
the -- I think it was out of an attempt to save his job, from my understanding, because The Bank wanted to
terminate him.

Q They wanted to terminate him or had you learned
that he was terminated the evening he wouldn't provide
information to you and that he was terminated for that
reason. Did you ever come to understand that?
A I don't believe he was terminated that evening,
because I believe there was an additional incident
involving him where he was uncooperative with me. I don't think it was that evening. However, like I said, I do
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25 believe he was terminated, I just can't remember when that occurred.

Q Okay. You testified about security at The Bank.

To your knowledge, are you aware of law enforcement ever arresting any security or bouncer at The Bank for their actions taken as -- in their duties?
A An actual arrest being made? I would say, no,
due to uncooperative witnesses or victims that did not
desire any further action.

Q Are there circumstances where you can arrest
somebody based on you, as a law enforcement officer, and what you personally see?
A Sure, yes.

Q So was there ever an arrest of any security at
The Bank based on anything that any law enforcement
officer saw, to your knowledge?
A Not to my knowledge.

Q You talked about the fact that you believe that
the security guards at The Bank were not licensed?
A Correct.

Q Do you know if they were ever required to be
licensed?
A Yes, I believe so.

Q Do you know where the requirement of licensure
comes from? Is it a city, state, county requirement?
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25 A I can't remember. I don't want to answer that
incorrectly, so, no, I'm not sure.

Q Did you ever come to understand that within the
last three or four months, the City of Temecula has
required security to be licensed?
A Yes.

Q And do you have any understanding about whether
The Bank has complied with that requirement that their
security be licensed?
A Currently?
Q Correct.

A No, they're not currently following all of the
security requirements per the municipal code.

Q I'm just talking about being licensed. It's your
testimony that they have security guards who are not
presently licensed?
A Correct.

Q Any names in particular that you know of?
A No. Just speaking with the business owner, it
sounds like they are attempting to go through that
process; however, one of the requirements is that security guards where a shirt with the business name, their name, and the words "security" clearly marked. And as of last weekend, I believe there were a couple of security guards there who are still not wearing those items. And last I www.dilr3C',2nesassociates.com
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25 spoke with Amanda there, those specific ones have not been licensed yet.

Q Okay. When you refer to Amanda, is that Amanda
Moore?
A Yes. I apologize.

Q No problem. How long have you known Amanda in a
professional relationship?
A Probably shortly after I was assigned to
Temecula, and -- probably starting in, like, March of
2021. And then in October, when I was assigned to Metro Team, that is probably when the professional relationship grew, because I was now assigned there and I spoke with them on a regular basis.

Q How would you describe your relationship with
Ms. Moore?
A Like any other business owners. I stop and speak
with them on our walks through Old Town. She will -- she sometimes reached out to me if there's information that she wants to share, and when I go there. I mean, she's
cordial with me.

Q When you say "information that she wants to
share," is that in regards to the problems or issues in and around The Bank in and around Old Town?
A Yes. However, I would say that it's my belief
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25 a little bit more after the filing of this revocation. I wouldn't say it was as much prior, in my opinion.

Q Did you ever have a conversation with her
following the homicide where she told you she felt that law enforcement did not have their back?
A We had a conversation with her. I don't remember
everything that was specifically said in that
conversation. I don't remember that statement
specifically.

Q Do you remember her making a statement that she
was going to stop or lessen her cooperation as far as
calling in incidents that she sees happening around Old Town?
A After the homicide?
Q Correct.

A Not that I remember specifically -- a specific
statement like that.

Q Do you ever remember making a statement to her
asking her to continue to cooperate with law enforcement and continue to, basically, communicate with you, letting you guys know things she's seeing with things going wrong around Old Town?
A So I'm trying to think. There may have been a
conversation that we had once, like, in Old Town about
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25 upset about this hearing and the revocation process, et cetera, where she maybe said something to the effect that she would just worry about them there and that's it.

So kind of, like, less cooperation.

However, I think it was maybe that conversation
we talked about, like, please, still continue to cooperate with us and provide us information. I mean, we have to
work together if we are going to solve these problems.

Q Going to the homicide in January of 2022, I just
want to clarify. You were not working that evening?
A No, it was on a Sunday, and I'm off on Sundays.

Q You testified before that the victim in the
homicide had previously been employed by The Bank;
correct?
A Yes.

Q Did you ever come to learn about what caused the
shooting to take place?
A I believe there was some type of argument. What
the argument was specifically over, I don't recall. I
don't necessarily also want to go into too much detail
about it considering it is still pending adjudication.

Q Do you ever -- and, again, if you can't answer
this, I appreciate the sensitivity. Do you ever remember being told that the deceased and the suspect knew each
other before that night, and had, you know, to say it
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25 another way, bad blood between them? Had you ever heard anything of that nature?
A I don't recall. I don't want to speak too much
to that incident.

Q Is there anything that you believe The Bank
should have done differently that night with respect to that incident?
A Not -- not specifically, no.

Q Do you have a -- strike that. What was the name
given to -- was it Metro -- Old Town Metro?
A Metro is the name of the team.

Q Do you have a base of operations in Old Town, a
central location?
A We have -- there's a store front or a building
next to City Hall in Old Town which we currently -- our officers are here at the station in Murrieta, the
unincorporated area. However, we do have an area where we do work as well at that store front in Old Town. And they are in the process of putting us there permanently, our office and everything.

Q Can you describe for me the amount of foot
traffic activity out in front of The Bank relative to
other parts of Old Town?
A I would say pretty close to the same. I would
say from, like, probably 4th Street, which is, I guess, www.dil esassociates.com
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25 just north of The Bank near Coin -Op -- the name of that bar -- probably from there, all the way south to the
Stampede, there's pretty constant foot traffic both ways.

Q Okay. Thank you, Sergeant. I don't have any
other questions.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you.

Ms. Martyn, cross-examination?
MS. MARTYN: No, your Honor, none. Thank you.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. All
right. In this case, any redirect, Ms. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, your Honor. I have just a
few questions.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So during your testimony in response to
Mr. Callaway's questions about whether any Temecula police officers have arrested security personnel based on what they have observed, can you describe for us when a peace officer in California can arrest for misdemeanor?
A Yes. Like, for a battery or a simple assault
misdemeanor, for example, if something like that occurs, the victim that was assaulted needs to sign a
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Q Is another way of putting that, that the officer
must personally observe the misdemeanor in order to
arrest, otherwise, it will require what we commonly refer to as either a private party's arrest or a citizen's
arrest?
A Correct.

Q And in California, simple assault, Penal Code
Section 240, that's a misdemeanor?
A Yes.

Q And in California, simple battery, Penal Code
Section 242, that's a misdemeanor?
A Yes.

MS. PETRUSIS: No further questions.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
cross-examination, Mr. Callaway?
MR. CALLAWAY: No, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
cross-examination, Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: No, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

In that case, thank you, Sergeant Hephner. You may be
released. Thank you for your time.
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ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

All
right.

Ms. Petrusis, is your next witness available?
THE WITNESS: I'm going to check. Yes,
he
is on
the Zoom. It is John Carrington.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

And
just
to let everyone know, we have a half an hour, so I
suspect
we will not finish this. But we will start it.

Okay.

Mr. Carrington, are you there?
MR. CARRINGTON: Yes, ma'am.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

All
right.

Mr. Carrington, I'm going to place you under oath.

Could
you please raise your right hand for me?

JOHN CARRINGTON,
called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn by the administrative law judge, was examined and testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: You can
put your hand down. Please state and spell your full name for the record.

THE WITNESS: Carrington, C-A-R-R-I-N-G-T-O-N,
John.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you,
Mr. Carrington.

Ms. Petrusis.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So, Mr. Carrington, what is your current
employment?
A I'm a private investigator.

Q And you were retained by the City of Temecula?
A Yes, I was.

Q Specifically, were you retained by the City
Attorney's office?
A Yes.

Q And have you ever been to The Bank restaurant in
Temecula?
A Yes, I have.

Q And when have you been to The Bank? What date
was that?
A It was only one occasion, and it was July -- I
believe July 10, 2022.

Q Do you remember what day that was, July 10th?
A Yes, it was a Sunday.

Q And why did you go to The Bank on July 10, 2022?
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25 A I was hired and contracted by you to do an
undercover investigation.

Q What time did you arrive at The Bank on
July 10th?
A I arrived in the vicinity at about 7:15 p.m.,
just outside.

Q And did you actually go inside of The Bank?
A Yes, I did.

Q And what time did you go inside of the
restaurant?
A Gosh, can I refer to my notes?
Q Sure, if it would refresh your recollection. But
you shouldn't read them out loud.

A Right. I have the time marked down. It was,
roughly, about 8:00 p.m. when I went inside.

Q And how long did you stay at The Bank that
evening?
A Until, approximately, 11:00 p.m.

Q Was The Bank still operating at 11:00 p.m. that
Sunday?
A Yes, when I left at 11:00 p.m., it was still in
operation.

Q Did you order any alcoholic beverages while you
were at The Bank that evening?
A Yes, I did.
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25 Q What time did you order an alcoholic beverage?
A I ordered it on several occasions. If I could
refer to my notes for the exact time, I could do that. I ordered a few drinks that evening.

Q If you want to go ahead and refresh your
recollection.

A Okay. Shortly after entering, probably around
8:30 p.m., I ordered my first drink, and then I ordered a second drink, Cadillac margarita, at 9:50 p.m. And then at 10:03 p.m., I believe, I ordered -- I asked the
bartender if I can order another drink, and he said yes, and I ordered a shot of Don Julio Tequila.

Q And that was at 10:03 p.m.?
A 10:03 p.m. And then -- I'm just making sure.

That was at 10:03 p.m., and I don't think I ordered any other drinks. I didn't want to drink too much.

Q Okay. Did you notice what appeared to be patrons
at The Bank ordering alcoholic beverages after 10:00 p.m.? A Yes.

Q When was the latest that you personally observed
what appeared to be a customer at The Bank ordering an
alcoholic beverage?
A It was sort of business as usual after 10:00 p.m.

People would just come to the bar and order drinks every few minutes. In my notes, I wrote down that I saw at
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25 10:39 p.m. six shots of Don Julio Tequila and pay for them. And that was about 20 minutes before I left.

Q Okay. Did you take any noise readings while you
were at The Bank on July 10th?
A Yes, I did.

Q What type of equipment did you use to take the
noise readings?
A I was using my iPhone. I have an app that I use.

It's just called Decibel Meter, and it's an iPhone app
that anyone can download.

Q How many times did you take noise readings that
evening?
A I believe I took around four occasions, or
attempted to. We got at least three occasions I took the noise reading.

Q On those three occasions, were the readings ever
above 70 DBA?
MR. CALLAWAY: Objection, your Honor. There's no
foundation as far as the accuracy of the equipment.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: You can
cross-examine with regard to that. She can ask the
questions and you can ask those questions on cross.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Do you need the question again, Mr. Carrington?
A Yes, please.
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25 Q Okay. On the three occasions that you took noise
readings that evening, did you receive a result of above 70 DBA?
A Yes, I did.

Q Do you remember the specific noise readings that
you obtained on those three occasions?
A Yes. I used four different locations just for
accuracy. And so, yes, I don't have them memorized, but I have them written down.

Q If you need to refresh your recollection, that's
fine. I would like to know the highest DBA reading that you received that evening.

A Okay. So at 8:00 p.m., I was right across from
the open patio, I received an 83 decibel reading. And
then across the street in front of 1909 restaurant, which is just across one street on Main, I received an 80
decibel reading. And, then, later, at 9:30 p.m., 87,
across the street at the curb. That was probably the
highest.

Q Okay. Was the noise music noise?
A Yes, it was a DJ playing music.

Q You testified earlier that you stayed until about
11:00 p.m.; is that correct?
A Yes.

Q And when you left at 11:00 p.m., did it appear
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A Yes. When I left, it was still operating. And I
actually didn't intend to leave. I went outside to take the decibel readings and I intended to return. But they were serving alcohol as normal.

Q Okay. So when you left the restaurant, what
happened then?
A I had gone across the street to the curb across
the street to take some readings on my cell phone when I was approached by two off -duty security guards from
The Bank. I recognized them from earlier being inside.

They stood one on each side of me. And only one of them spoke. The gentleman standing on my left side, and he
said that he would beat me up if I didn't give him my cell phone.

Q And how did you respond?
A I laughed at him.

Q Did you say anything to him?
A Yeah, I did believe that he intended to try to
beat me up, I just didn't think he could. I laughed at
him and I said, "No, I'm not going to give you my cell
phone, and, no, you can't beat me up."
Q And did he say anything back to you?
A Yes. He accused me of taking pictures inside of
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inside the bar." And so he responded, "Well, if you're
telling the truth, then I'll let it go at that."
Q And you said that it was two individuals and that
they were off -duty security personnel? Did I get that
right?
A Yes.

Q And how did you know that they were off -duty
security personnel from The Bank?
A Well, I had been in there a few hours, and the
security people wear this mauve -colored T-shirt that says "Security," on the back. And both of those gentlemen,
earlier, I had seen them, for several hours inside, and they had the same T-shirt on, and they acted like security guards.

Q Okay. After you left The Bank that evening at
around 11:00 p.m., did you continue to surveil the
restaurant?
A I finished taking the decibel readings at the
various locations, and then I departed.

Q And what time did you depart from the area?
A Probably around 11:20 or 11:25.

Q You said 11:25?
A Yes.
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25 Q Okay. And when you left the area at around
11:25, was The Bank still operating then?
A Yes. I was only parked a short distance away, so
from my car, I could still see the patio, and they were still operating.

Q So why is it that you believe they were still
operating? You could see the patio, but what was it about that that made you think they were still operating?
A There were still people inside, and I could see
individuals, and I could still hear music.

MS. PETRUSIS: Okay. I don't have any further
questions.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

In this case, cross-examination, Mr. Callaway?
MR. CALLAWAY: Yes, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Good afternoon, Mr. Carrington.

A Good afternoon.

Q You testified about taking -- I think I counted
three readings?
A Yes.

Q As far as numerically that you provided, 80, 83,
and 87. Are those the only three readings you took?
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25 A No. She just asked me for the highest, but I had
taken three separate occasions, four readings from four different locations.

Q And what type of device were you using to record
the noise level?
A An iPhone 11, my personal phone.

Q Do you have any training in operating, whether
it's a phone or any device, for the purposes of taking a decibel reading?
A No training. Just use and experience.

Q How many times had you used it before that night?
A Well, I use it personally because I play in a
band and I play guitar. And when we practice or when I
play, I have to make sure it's under a certain level
because my neighbors complain and the police do show up, so I use it for that to monitor my own music, actually.

Q Simple question. How do you know the readings
you get are accurate?
A I just have to assume that the app is accurate.

It's the No. 1 app for that on the iPhone store.

Q Have you ever done anything to verify the
readings that you have taken from that phone?
A No.

MR. CALLAWAY: Okay. Thank you. No further
questions, your Honor.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Ms. Martyn, any cross-examination?
MS. MARTYN: No, your Honor, none.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Any redirect, Ms. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: No, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. All
right.

In that case, Mr. Carrington, you may be
released. Thank you for your time.

THE WITNESS: Thank you.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

In that case, Ms. Petrusis, is your next witness
available?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, your Honor. It's Jeff
Letourneau.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Letourneau, are you there?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I am.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

I'm going to place you under oath. Please raise your
right hand for me.
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25 JEFFREY LETOURNEAU,
called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn by the administrative law judge, was examined and testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: I affirm.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. You
can put your hand down. Can you please state and spell
your full name for me?
THE WITNESS: Jeffrey, J-E-F-F-R-E-Y, Brian,
B-R-I-A-N, Letourneau, L-E-T-O-U-R-N-E-A-U.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you,
Mr. Letourneau.

Ms. Petrusis.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Mr. Letourneau, what is your current employment?
A I'm a licensed private investigator.

Q And have you been retained by my office?
A Yes.

Q Have you ever been to The Bank restaurant in
Temecula?
A Yes.
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25 Q When have you been to The Bank restaurant?
A The 10th, the 20th, and the 27th of July.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Of this
year?
THE WITNESS: Of this year, yes. I'm sorry.

MR. CALLAWAY: I'm sorry. Your Honor, I didn't
catch all those dates.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I believe
he said July 10th, July 20th, and July 27th.

THE WITNESS: No, I'm sorry. It's the Wednesday,
July 13th, Wednesday, July 20th, and Wednesday, July 27th.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q And why did you go to The Bank on those three
dates?
A Okay. I was informed by your office that there
was a drag performance that had been scheduled inside the facility, and you wanted to monitor the hours they
operated, and, also, the noise level outside of the
building during the operating hours.

Q So let's start with July 13th.

A Yes.

Q What time did you arrive at The Bank on
July 13th?
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25 A Okay. I think we arrived, maybe, around 7:15 or
7:30, but we were there for an event that was scheduled to begin at 8:00. So we were early, about 45 minute early.

Q And what was the event that you mentioned that
was scheduled to occur?
A On the first night I'm speaking of, it's called
The Quality Dance Party.

Q And did that event end up happening at The Bank
that night?
A Yes.

Q What time did it begin?
A Well, we entered -- I was with a partner. We
entered about -- a little after 7:30, and there they were still serving food at the bar. So it was scheduled to
start at 8:00, but when it was apparent that it wasn't
going to, we left and went across the street for a while.

And I think the guests probably didn't start showing up until 9:45 of 9:50.

Q And then did you end up going back over to
The Bank that evening?
A Yes.

Q What time did you go back over to The Bank that
evening?
A If I could check my notes and make sure? I got
it right. Okay. My video shot was at 9:20, but I think
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Q Okay. And when did the event start, then, at
The Bank?
A Well, I don't think the actual singing and
production part started until about an hour after that.

Q So was that after 10:00 o'clock p.m., then?
A Yes.

Q And can you describe what this entertainment
event was?
A It was a sort of a toned -down drag show that --
it's hard to describe. But it wasn't, like, a formal big production. The drag performers came out and they
interacted with the crowd. And the one that was the
primary MC of the night did some banter back and forth and did her number. And then the second entertainer came out and danced far more than the first one, but for a shorter period of time.

Q Okay. And at any point during the evening, were
there individuals singing?
A The performers were lip syncing. They weren't
singing themselves --
MS. PETRUSIS: I apologize, your Honor. I just
got a notification that City Hall just lost power, and
that's why you saw a bunch of people drop off.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I did see
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25 a lot of people drop off, yes. That might be an issue.

But notably, we are close to 5:00 o'clock. It's 4:42.

I suspect we may have to take this for an extra
day of hearing regardless. Given that we have lost a lot of folks from the City here, I think it's prudent to just end for today since we're so close to the 5:00 o'clock
time period. So we'll go off the record and stop the
recording.
(The hearing adjourned at 4:43 p.m.)
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25 HEARING REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
I, Shelby K. Maaske, Hearing Reporter in and for
the State of California, do hereby certify:

That the foregoing transcript of proceedings was
taken before me at the time and place set forth, that the testimony and proceedings were reported stenographically by me and later transcribed by computer -aided
transcription under my direction and supervision, that the foregoing is a true record of the testimony and
proceedings taken at that time.

I further certify that I am in no way interested
in the outcome of said action.

I have hereunto subscribed my name this 28th day
of September, 2022.

SHELBY K. MAASKE

HEARING REPORTER
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jaiE:3
1356

In the Matter of:

THE BANK

TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING VOLUME II
September 01, 2022
Diatinc joncs & Associ'atcs
Reporting and Videography
P.J. Pox 1736
Pacific Palisades, California 90272
310.472.9882
1357

STATE OF CALIFORNIA

OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS

DEBRA NYE-PERKINS, ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE
In Re: ) OAH Case No.
22022051021
The Bank ) PUBLIC HEARING
Volume II

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Zoom Videoconference
Thursday, September 1, 2022
Reported by:

SHELBY K. MAASKE

HEARING REPORTER
1358

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PAI
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25 In Re:

STATE OF CALIFORNIA

OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS

DEBRA NYE-PERKINS, ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE
The Bank
OAH Case No.
22022051021

PUBLIC HEARING
Volume II
Transcript of Proceedings, taken
via Zoom Videoconference beginning at 9:00 a.m.
and ending at 5:37 p.m. on Thursday,
September 1, 2022, heard before Debra Nye -Perkins,
Administrative Law Judge, reported by Shelby K.

Maaske, Hearing Reporter.
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25 APPEARANCES:

For the CITY OF TEMECULA:

COLE HUBER, LLP
BY: ELIZABETH L. MARTYN, ESQ.

RICK EDWARDS, ESQ.
(Appearing remotely by Zoom)
2855 E. Guasti Road
Suite 402
Ontario, California 91761
[email protected]
For CNC PUMA CORPORATION:

LAW OFFICE OF THOMAS JAMES CALLAWAY
BY: TOM CALLAWAY, ESQ.
(Appearing remotely by Zoom)
43537 Ridge Park Drive
Temecula, California 92590
951-201-6982
esassociates.com www.diT
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WA
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25 I N D E X
THE CITY'S WITNESSES: PAGE
Letoureau, Jeffrey
Direct Examination by Ms. Petrusis
(Continued) 81

THE BANK'S WITNESSES
Puma, Craig
Direct Examination by Mr. Callaway 17
Cross -Examination by Ms. Petrusis 57
Cross -Examination by Ms. Martyn 73
Lane, Amanda
Direct Examination by Mr. Callaway 84
Cross -Examination by Ms. Petrusis 151
Cross -Examination Mr. Edwards 168
Redirect Examination Mr. Callaway 182

ZIP THIRD INVESTMENTS' WITNESSES
Solomon, Norman
Direct Examination by Mr. Edwards 184
(Continued) 207
Cross -Examination by Ms. Pertusis 229
Cross -Examination Mr. Callaway 237
Fernandez, Lazaro
Direct Examination by Mr. Edwards 199
Cross -Examination by Ms. Petrusis 205
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25 I N D E X (Continued)
THE CITY'S WITNESSES: PAGE
Stuart Fisk
Rebuttal Examination by Ms. Petrusis 241
Cross -Examination by Mr. Callaway 245
Cross -Examination by Mr. Edwards 267
Recross-Examination Mr. Callaway 272

E X H I B I T S
THE
BANK'S

MARKED FOR RECEIVED
EXHIBITS:

IDENTIFICATION IN EVIDENCE
G -
E-mails
148
H -
E-mails
44 I -
E-mails
56 K -
Calls for
Service
129
L -
Calls for
Service
132
M -
Calls for
Service
133
N -
Calls for
Service
134
0 -
Calls for
Service
135
P -
Calls for
Service
136
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25 E X H I B I T S (Continued)

ZIP THIRD

INVESTMENTS'
EXHIBITS:

PP - Bankruptcy
Documents
HHH - Dismissal Order

MARKED FOR

IDENTIFICATION
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RECEIVED

IN EVIDENCE
205
205
I

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25 Remote Proceedings; Thursday, September 1, 2022
9:00 a.m.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I will
continue the record for the second day of the Matter of The Bank and Zip Third investments regarding the
Revocation of Conditional Use Permit issued by the City of Temecula, Administrative Hearing 202205021.

And at the end of the proceedings yesterday, we
were in the process of direct examination of
Mr. Letourneau, and we will continue that this morning.

So, Mr. Letourneau, I'm going to place you under
oath again. Could you please raise your right hand for
me?

JEFFREY LETOURNEAU,
called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn by the Administrative Law Judge, was examined and testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: I affirm.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you.

You can put your hand down, Mr. Letourneau.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor. And a
housekeeping matter, because notice was given to the
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public that this would be at least a two-day hearing and that they would be given the opportunity to provide public comment --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Before we
can continue with Mr. Letourneau's testimony, is there any public comment? If there is any public comment, now is
your time. Please speak up.

Okay. Hearing nothing, Ms. Petrusis, we will go
on with the direct examination of Mr. Letourneau.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Mr. Letourneau, if I remember correctly, you were
in the middle of describing the live entertainment that you observed at The Bank when you were there on July 13, 2022, which was a Wednesday. So can you please describe what the live entertainment was that evening?
A Yes. Primarily, there was a hostess who was the
main entertainer and the director of the program, and one other performer that -- I don't know how much detail you want to go into? But was sort of an assistant to the main performer, but who arguably, did much of the dancing and climbing and whatever. That was the extent of the show.

Q Okay. And at any point, did these performers
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sing?
A No, they lip synced.

Q And the music, was it coming -- where was is
coming from?
A It seemed to be coming from the speakers near the
stage at the -- if you enter the facility, the far wall.

Q Okay.

A The entrance sort of angles at 1:00 o'clock.

Q Did the performer dance as part of their
performance?
A Yes. The first dancer danced in a -- sort of a
dance, right? -- was not limber and petite like the second performer. The second performer did most of the dancing.

Q How long did this entertainment last that
evening?
A If I could quickly look at my notes. I would say
over one hour, maybe an hour and 15 minutes.

Q So would that put it at about 11:00 p.m.?
A Yes. They started shortly after 10:00, and I
believe -- I have it in my notes -- an hour and 45 minutes was the length of the show. So maybe until, about, 11:45.

Q Okay. Thank you.

A And maybe a little longer. Maybe closer to 11:50
or 11:55.

Q And when did you leave The Bank on the night of
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A So I left at 11:09 to cross the street and get a
sound reading, and then our final departure was at 12:20 in the morning.

Q Okay. At 12:20 in the morning -- strike that --
A The following day. The following day, of course.

Q Right. Did you notice what time The Bank closed
down its operations that evening, or did you leave before it stopped operating that evening?
A Around midnight, the customers had all departed.

We waited a short while longer to see if anyone else was coming in. There were other people who had been walking by from other facilities, I guess, and none of them
entered. And the breakdown began, and at 12:20, they were almost done breaking down the tables and the flags or
whatnot.

Q Did you notice patrons ordering alcoholic
beverages after 10:00 p.m. that evening on the 13th?
A Yes.

Q Did you notice patrons consuming what appeared to
be alcoholic beverages after 10:00 p.m. on the 13th?
A Yes.

Q Turning now to July 20th, which -- was that a
Wednesday to best of your recollection?
A That is correct. It's a Wednesday.
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Q So July 20, 2022, what time did you arrive at
The Bank that evening on July 20, 2022?
A We first got there at 7:15, and then set up a
viewpoint across the street at the restaurant in a corner lot, so we had a view of the full front entrance of the property and the set up.

Q Okay. And how late were you there that evening
on July 20th?
A We left at 12:50 in the morning.

Q Was there any type of live entertainment on the
night of July 20th?
A Yes.

Q And can you describe what that live entertainment
was?
A So it was -- what would be described -- I would
describe it as a typical drag show. It lasted
approximately 90 minutes.

Q When did it begin that evening?
A It began at, I would say, probably about 9:15.

Q And so is it safe to say, then, that it lasted
until about 10:45?
A Yes.

Q And as part of this drag show entertainment, was
there music?
A There was music -- recorded music.
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25 Q And were the performers dancing?
A Some were at some time. It wasn't really a dance
performance, it was a move -about -the -crowd performance.

There wasn't a whole lot of dancing with the way they had it set up.

Q So what were they doing as part of the live
entertainment?
A As they sang, they would come up to people that
had extended their hands with tips and lip sync to them briefly, receive the tips, and then move to the next
customer, at times, doing dance moves, splits, et cetera.

Q Okay. Did you notice any patrons ordering
alcoholic beverages after 10:00 p.m. on the night of
July 20th?
A Yes.

Q Did you notice any patrons consuming what
appeared to be alcoholic beverages after 10:00 p.m.?
A Yes.

Q And how are you able to tell that people were
ordering and consuming alcoholic beverages after
10:00 p.m.?
A The facility is such that you can see the -- the
bar is a full -service bar with seating. Although, I think the stools were removed that night. But you can see the orders being taken and change being given back.
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Q And is it safe to say that you observed that
happening multiple times after 10:00 p.m.?
A Yes.

Q Did you personally order any alcoholic beverages
after 10:00 p.m. at The Bank?
A Yes. Just -- I'm not exactly certain, but I'm
almost positive one or two beers for the person that was there. I had one drink, but I think I ordered that drink before 10:00 o'clock.

Q On each of the nights?
A I think the answer would probably have to be the
same for each night -- the previous time and this time, yes.

Q And you were with a partner when you were at
The Bank?
A Yes. My partner shot video, and I was taking
still -shot photos.

Q And the partner that was with you, that person
consumed alcoholic beverages after 10:00 p.m. at
The Bank?
A Yes, as did I. I sort of nursed the drink
throughout the evening.

Q Okay. What time did you notice that The Bank
stopped operations on July 20, 2022?
A At 12:35 the following day.
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25 Q So 12:35?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Turning now to Wednesday, July 27th. What
time did you arrive at The Bank on Wednesday, July 27,
2022?
A 8:15.

Q 8:15 p.m.?
A Yes.

Q And how late did you stay at The Bank that
evening?
A We parted at 12:15.

Q 12:15 a.m.?
A A.m., correct.

Q On, I guess, July 28th, then?
A Yes.

Q Was there any live entertainment when you were at
The Bank on Wednesday, July 27th?
A Yes.

Q What type of live entertainment was there that
night?
A Relative to the week before, I would say it was
limited. It started with -- the only example we saw of a male dance performer, and then the hostess of the show.

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that there would only be two shows that night -- I mean, two performers that night. I'm sorry.

Q And when? I'm sorry.

A If you could give me just one second to look. I
think there were only two performers. There may have been one more, but I don't think so. I think it was -- I'm so sorry. It's two for sure, possibly three.

Q Okay. That's fine. And what time did the live
entertainment start on July 27th?
A Okay. 10:45 p.m.

Q And how long did it last?
A I would say, maybe, about 45 minutes.

Q So would that be approximately, then, 11:30 p.m.?
A Yes.

Q What time did you notice The Bank closing
operations on the evening on Wednesday July 27, 2022?
A At 12:15, the last of the customers had left and
the breakdown was occurring. That's when we ended the
surveillance and we departed.

MS. PETRUSIS: I don't have any other questions.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Cross-examination Mr. Callaway?
MR. CALLAWAY: Good morning, your Honor. No
questions here.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.
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Cross-examination, Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: No questions, your Honor. Thank
you.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

In this case, Mr. Letourneau, you may be released. Thank you for your time.

THE WITNESS: You're very welcome. Thank you.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Just one second here.

Ms. Petrusis, any further witnesses?
MS. PETRUSIS: No, but we reserve the right to
call rebuttal witnesses if necessary.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. All
right.

In that case, Mr. Callaway, do you have witnesses
available and ready to go?
MR. CALLAWAY: I do, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Mr. Callaway, your first witness.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor. The Bank
calls Craig Puma.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Mr. Puma, are you there?
MR. PUMA: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.
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Mr. Puma, I can't see you, but I can hear you. Oh, there you are. Mr. Puma, I'm going place you under oath. Can
you please raise your right hand?

CRAIG PUMA,
called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn by the Administrative Law Judge, was examined and testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And you
can put your hand down. Could you please state and spell your full name for me?
THE WITNESS: Craig Puma, C-R-A-I-G, P-U-M-A.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you,
Mr. Puma.

Mr. Callaway.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Good morning, Mr. Puma.

A Good morning.

Q Do you presently have a relationship with CNC
Puma?
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A Yes, I'm part owner.

Q And can you tell me what CNC Puma is?
A CNC Puma is Craig and Christy Puma, and it was
our corporation started in 2007, which is the company that owns The Bank, and owns The Bank liquor license. It's the company behind The Bank.

Q And at the present time, you are a part owner?
A Yes.

Q Have you been an owner of CNC Puma continuously
since 2007?
A Yes, originally as president and now as a board
member.

Q Do you have any involvement in the day-to-day
operations of CNC -- strike that.

Is The Bank of Mexican Food a dba of CNC Puma?
A Yes.

Q Do you have any involvement in the daily
operations of The Bank?
A Only as a consultant when they need my
assistance, questions and things. Not day to day.

Q Okay. Was CNC Puma started for the purpose of
owning and operating a restaurant in Old Town Temecula? A Yes.

Q And I'm sorry. What was your position with
CNC Puma when it first opened? I believe you said you
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were the president?
A Yes.

Q And at that time, beginning in 2007, were you
actively involved in the day-to-day operation of running The Bank?
A Yes. And I had another job as well, so I was
doing both -- my wife and I were both actively involved.

Q Is there a time that you quit the other job and
devoted more time to operating The Bank?
A Yes. In July of 2010, I went completely solely
working with The Bank in terms of employment.

Q Do you have access to the CaseLines evidence?
A Yes, I do.

Q I want you to go to the top under heading, A,
Complainant Attorney Petrusis Evidence, do you see that? A What number?
Q I just want to direct you generally to where the
City's evidence starts.

A Yes, I'm there.

Q Okay. Good. And if you could go to Exhibit 4?
A Okay.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway, if you have a Bates number, I can send the direction directly to the page that you are interested in.

MR. CALLAWAY: Starting at A-11.
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THE WITNESS: I'm there.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Okay. If you could go down to the second page
which would be Bates A-12?
A Yes.

Q Do you recognize that document?
A Yes, I do.

Q Can you tell me what it is?
A It's the Minor Conditional Use Permit, and I was
changing -- it's when I got an upgrade from a Type 41 beer and wine license only to a Type 47 full liquor license in an eating establish.

Q And was that CUP application granted and
approved?
A Yes. And this one is also -- if I'm looking at
the correct one, this one -- it also it says, "Extended hours." I don't know why it says that, but that's the
original request for upgrade to the Type 47.

Q If you could let me direct your attention to
Exhibit 6.

A Okay.

Q If you look at the second Bates page on that one,
it is A-29.

A Okay. Yes.

Q And do you recognize that document?
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A Yes, it's a minor modification. That's the one I
was modifying the hours. Business was increasing due to the full liquor and we wanted to go until the State of
California law which is 2:00 a.m., last call at 1:30.

Q And was that application approved?
A Yes.

Q Were there any conditions that were put on you
for that first modification in '08 that were different
from the '07, other than the hours changing?
A Yes, there were quite a few conditions once we
got the full liquor license. And I don't have the list in front of me, but there is a list of things we were
required to do, training for all the servers and
bartenders. We were required to keep a clean house. They have a list of things. It's on the CUP, the items they
required, now that we had a full liquor license.

Q And you are referring to the CUP from 2007 that
was approved in the beginning of '08; correct?
A Well, I'm referring to both. Once you go to a
liquor license 47, they have a requirement that everyone has a -- what's called a LEAD training or TIPS training -- wouldn't you know someone would come to the door. They
just require that we all have a training that taught safe practices of alcohol serving.

Q Okay.
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A Give me one moment, please. I just have to get
rid of this person.

Q Okay.

A Okay. Sorry about that.

Q Not a problem. So I understand the first minor
modification in '08 increased the hours; correct?
A Right.

Q And it increased the hours in what way?
A Okay. Going back to your question, the 2008
increase of hours, there was no additional conditions.

What I said about the LEAD training and the alcohol
serving training was the 47 license. There were no
additional requirements for the 2008 modification for
longer hours, just to be clear.

Q Okay. Thank you. And that was my question.

Did the process for obtaining the minor modification in 2008 differ from obtaining the Conditional Use Permit in 2007?
A The process itself?
Q Correct.

A The main difference was in 2007 -- in 2008, when
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25 under the bar in a non -alcohol area. So we actually had another application that I do not see anywhere here for a modification of the property to have alcohol on all of the patios that are walking up to The Bank, not just the bar patio.

So I'm not seeing that application there. But
that was the only difference was the visit by ABC on the initial 47 request and the additional hours, was pretty basic -- pretty quick.

Q But for the first one for the 47 license, did it
require a public hearing?
A It's not a requirement. That was a director's
review, and it was decided by the director. I don't
remember -- well, it is a public hearing, but it was in a conference room with the director himself and members of police and fire.

Q Would you say that getting the minor modification
approved in 2008 was a more streamlined process than
getting the original CUP for the 47?
A Definitely.

Q Go ahead.

A We were only asking for the hour change. I don't
remember it being real complicated. And I would say, if memory serves me on this -- I don't have notes -- it was all approved within a week or two, whereas the first
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process was three months.

Q For the first minor modification in 2008, do you
remember how the application process was started? Is it something that you mailed in? Did you go into the office or the City itself and do it over the counter?
A Everything always started at the City level.

They have a front counter, and then you get a number and wait for somebody to come up and take your documentation.

In some cases, I would go to the counter first and talk to an individual and ask them what I needed to do.

Other times, I would see -- they put all of the
applications in public reach, and I would grab the
application and fill it out and go to somebody at a desk and start the process.

Q So at some point the 2008 was approved; correct?
A Yes, it was approved.

Q And at that time it was your understanding you
had authority to keep The Bank open for business up to
2:00 a.m. any day of the week, 52 weeks a year?
A Yes.

Q I'm going to jump to the 2012, but before I do,
do you have a background or a history of working for or being associated with the City of Temecula?
A Yes, I was on the Old Town Review Board appointed
by the mayor for nine years. I actually worked with the www.diT9nesassociates.com

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original director, Patrick Richardson, for -- if memory serves me -- for about seven or eight years, and then I worked with Luke Watson for his time as director.

So I had a very good relationship with the City,
the employees, and especially the planning department,
because I was part of the advisory committee for the mayor on that board with Luke and his staff.

Q Did --
A You are asking other things. I initially worked
with the Visit Temecula Valley, which is the tourism
district. We helped shaped Old Town into what it has
become. I was the original founder and president of
Old Town Temecula Association of Merchants, which all
boards really looked to the improvement and vitality of Old Town. We wanted to create an entertainment and food district with tasting rooms for beer and wine.

We were trying to create something, kind of what
it is today. And I've actually gotten commendations from the mayor for the work that I have done during that
period. So I have done a lot of work with the City.

Q Would you characterize it as a positive
experience?
A Absolutely.

Q Good relationships with the gentlemen that you
mentioned earlier?
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A Luke Watson, Stuart Fisk, Brandon -- all of the
people there. I didn't have any issue with anybody at
the City.

Q And how about presently, still a good
relationship?
A As much as we have. We don't really speak that
much. I know that when I send e-mails and have questions, they get back to me right away. There's no negativity
whatsoever.

Q Okay. And I want to jump forward to the 2012
application for a minor modification. If you could -- I'd like to direct your attention to Exhibit 8.

A Yes.

Q Starting with Bates number A-39, it is the
Exhibit 8 cover page. The body starts at A-40.

A Yes, I remember this.

Q So do you recognize this document?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Can you tell me what the purpose of this
document was for?
A So I remember this because I went in and I
grabbed what I thought was a Conditional Use Permit
Application. I met with Stuart Fisk, and I had the
paperwork filled out. He had told me that's not the right thing, but it's not a big deal. He said this -- they were www.dilr31'p� esassociates.com
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requesting that I -- this was an application for music.

I wanted some music. It was going on in town a
lot. I had music inside and they told me, "Hey, a lot of the other restaurants, they had to pay for a permit to
have the music, and we don't have a permit on file for you so we need to do some basic housekeeping, clean up, and we need to have you pay for a permit." So I went in and
Stuart helped me and I filled out the application.

He made a change to the paper, which wasn't a big
deal, charged $300.00, and he, basically, told me at the counter that it was a staff decision, and that it was
approved, and then I got the paperwork a couple days
later.

And when I say "paperwork," I mean, the
Conditional Use Permit that had the addition of the music of which I kept the envelope for the Conditional Use
Permit for the bartenders to access any time there was an authority that needed to come in and see it and ask for it. It had to be readily available, which is one of the requirements of the liquor license.

Q In looking at this document, I'm going to direct
you to the top half to the section Project Information.

The section is between that and going down to the section that says Additional Project Information. So I will be
asking you about the top. Do you follow?
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Q So looking at the top, is all of that your
writing?
A All of it except the $300.00, and then, of
course, the writing above that.

Q Okay. The $300.00, you didn't put that in?
A Yes, Stuart put that in, and the rest of it is my
writing.

Q So were you actually standing at the counter down
at the City with Stuart Fisk?
A Technically, I was sitting, it's a desk.

Q Okay. The subsection that says "General
Description of Project or Event," that is your writing
there; correct?
A Yes.

Q What was your intention -- what was it you wanted
to get done by submitting this application?
A I was respecting the City's request. We had
already started music. I didn't know it was a problem.

My understanding was as long as everything was inside and nothing was heard outside, that we were in compliance.

They told me I wasn't in compliance and I needed to have a permit to have the indoor live music.

So my intention was to have one person -- which I
was already doing, one person, background music. It
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wasn't meant to be a concert, just meant to be a little background music, light music. People would ask for their favorite songs, that type of thing. That's all the whole discussion was about.

Q At the bottom of that subsection it says in
parenthesis, "Daily noon through 10:00 p.m.," close
parenthesis. Again, is that your writing?
A That's in question. I think that was changed --
because I do remember the conversation that I had put the days that I actually had the music and Stuart had asked, "Are you sure you only want to stick to those days?" And I said, "That's when I have the music now." And he said, "Do you want to open it up to other days?" And I said,
"Yeah, why not?"
I did end up changing it. So I crossed out the
bottom part where it says Additional Project Information.

I believe that's his writing that says, "Daily noon to
10:00 p.m." It doesn't look like my writing.

Q You know, I might be losing you. You are still
up at the top subsection; correct?
A I'm at both, really, because I'm talking about
the comments about what time the music was to be played.

So the section that's below Additional Project
Information, that's my writing I changed, I believe. I
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I think we talked about it, and I think that might be
Stuart's writing at the top, "Daily noon to 10:00 p.m.," and where it's crossed out. I believe that he did write that. As you can see, I write in all caps and the other writing is in lower case. So I think that's his writing.

Q Was it your intention in any way by this
application to limit the hours to have entertainment, you know, within your authorized hours to be open?
A I'm sorry. Are you asking if it's --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I don't
understand the question.

THE WITNESS: Was the intent to reduce my
operating hours?
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Was it your intention to have the hours for
entertainment be less than your operating hours?
A Yes, absolutely.

Q And the noon to 10:00 was based on -- up to that
point, was your track record of when you had the
entertainment?
A It was meant to encompass lunch and dinner. I
wasn't looking to have much entertainment after late
dinner hours, after 10:00 o'clock.

Q Let's go to the last question. Under Additional
Project Information.
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25 A Okay.

Q So I believe the testimony you gave, it did cross
over into this area.

A Yes.

Q So it's your recollection Stuart Fisk is the one
who crossed out the Thursday through Sunday or -- I can't quite tell what that is.

A Thursday and Sunday evening, which is what I was
doing. And we discussed it, and I said, "Yes, let's go
ahead and do every day." And you can see that the "every" is my all caps, and then he put in "noon to 10:00 p.m." Q Starting with the next line, "Estimated Daily
Attendance, 70," from there down to the last line that
says the word "Music," is that all your writing?
A Yes.

Q In the section that says, "Hours of operation
from 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m.," what was your intention
there of putting that down?
A Just telling him my hours that I was operating.

Because we went through a period of time where we would tell people we were open until, you know, last call 1:30 and stay open till 2:00. By 2012, the town was going a
little crazy. And I made a decision myself and under my discretion that I started closing at 1:00 o'clock. I did last call at 1:00 o'clock.
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There were some nights we stayed open later, but
I was giving a general description of what time we were open. I was not thinking about charging the hours to
that, I was just telling him what time I was practicing my hours.

Q At the time you were meeting with Mr. Fisk, was
reduction of hours ever discussed?
A No.

Q Were there --
A Money wise, I would have stayed -- if that was a
requirement, I would have stayed with the hours I had
because that's where we make a lot of money.

Q So would it be your testimony that you did not
feel there were any restrictions on rights you already had relative to the restaurant in exchange for being granted the right to background music?
A No. I had no understanding that anything else
was going to change other than the addition to background music. This application process was probably about 20
minutes, and he told me at that time that there was no
issue, and we would move forward with music being allowed.

It was a formality.

Q After the application was approved, did you get a
copy of it?
A I got a copy of the CUP.
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Q Okay.

A It came in an envelope, I opened it up and I saw
it was the new CUP and saw the addition of music, and I put it back in the envelope and put it on the bar where I kept the original CUP.

Q At that time, your understanding was your
application had been granted; correct?
A Correct.

Q And that your hours of operation were still at
your discretion up to 2:00 a.m.?
A Correct.

Q Any day of the week, 52 weeks a year?
A Correct.

Q One last thing, on page 40, at the bottom of the
page, there is some writing that says, "Existing CUP," and then a number or letter "PA 07-0314." Is that your
understanding that references the original CUP?
A At the time, I figured that it referenced the
most recent, but that application was the original
application for the Type 41 liquor license.

Q And what was the most recent application?
A 2008 for the 47 license.

Q Okay. So did it strike you that the 2008 minor
modification was not listed there?
A At the time, no, but I've gone through all of
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this stuff and it strikes me as very strange. Even the
existing CUP references the 41 license and it references that I need to have liquor safety training for my staff five years before that was even issued.

So it was obvious to me that they made an honest
mistake and they copied and pasted, as Luke referenced
yesterday, the wrong CUP -- the wrong copy of it. They
copy and pasted the 2007 rather than the 2008. At the
time, I didn't catch that because, again, I was looking at the entertainment. I saw that line, and I filed away the CUP.

MS. PETRUSIS: Objection. Move to strike. That
answer misstates prior testimony by Mr. Watson.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm going
to overrule the objection. I mean, the testimony is what we heard. It doesn't mean it's the same testimony as to what Mr. Watson testified to.

Go ahead, Mr. Callaway.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

Q You previously testified as to another
application that you don't see referenced anywhere. What application was that?
A It was the request from the ABC that we allow --
we put up a fence on the south side of the building --
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25 which, as you are walking on the property, the left side of the building -- to keep people from jumping that fence.

They wanted to contain the property, basically,
and make the front entrance the entrance onto the
property. It's part of Riverside County's requirements
when entering a bar. You have to enter the property
first.

So we went through that process, and we then
increased the square footage to include the front patio tables and the side patio where there is kind of a waiting area, standing area, and people stand there, and they have the actual bar which was previously approved. So we added that in 2009. I don't see any reference to that CUP. I
don't know why. I think it was an ABC level. I don't
know, but that one is not referenced anywhere.

Q Okay. And as of the time in 2012 that the
application for this minor modification was approved, were you still actively involved in the day-to-day operation of The Bank?
A In 2012?
Q Yes, sir.

A Yes.

Q And some point in time you sold a portion of CNC
Corp; is that correct?
A When you say "sold," it implies money transfer,
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but the deal was a little bit different than that. But
Ryan and Amanda were appointed as -- and they'd have to correct me. I don't remember -- the president and
secretary, and they would take over the operations and
they would, I guess, through payment of my vendors, that's the only money I received. I don't receive any cash
outlay, and I became a board member.

Q When was that?
A That was in -- actually, February 28, 2020. We
made the agreement on February 23rd. I remember the day because it's the exact point of 13 years from the day I opened.

Q And up to that point, you were actively involved
in the management and operation of The Bank?
A Up to the 28th of February, yes. And I'm still
just advisory. I get calls once a month and we talk.

Q Let's say between the time that the 2012 minor
modification was approved and the time in February of
2020, did you continue to operate under the assumption
that you could stay open and serve alcohol until
2:00 a.m.?
A Absolutely.

Q In fact, did you, at times, stay open until
2:00 a.m. and serve alcohol until 2:00 a.m.?
A Yes.
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Q And so how often would that happen that you would
go until 2:00 a.m.

A The town had completely grown. The only time I
wouldn't stay open -- there were certain times a year
where we had events going on and things going on and
people started drinking earlier in the day, and it wasn't the crowd I wanted, so we'd make the decision to close at 1:00. Because most of our crowd after 1:00 were people
getting kicked out of other places and coming to our
place. And so when I started to see that happen, we would shut down. But that was probably the -- that was the
exception. We mainly stayed open until 2:00 with last
call being at 1:30, as required.

Q During that time, from the time the 2012 minor
modification was approved in February of 2020, did you
ever receive any complaints from the City relative to your hours of operation?
A Never. In fact, City people came and they were
there.

Q Beyond 11:00 p.m.?
A Yeah. There were City people there beyond 11:00.

I was friends with some of them that would be socially
drinking after 11:00.

Q Again, no complaints?
A No.
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Q No violations? No fines?
A Never.

Q At some point in time did you come to learn that
the City was saying that The Bank was in violation of
their operating hours and serving alcohol hours?
A Yeah, when Amanda told me -- she called me in
early 2021.

Q And who is Amanda?
A Amanda is the current manager in charge of
The Bank -- she and Ryan.

Q Did she contact you by phone or by e-mail?
A She originally contacted me by phone, and we had
a discussion.

Q And what was that discussion about?
A Well, she asked me about the hours and what my
understanding was. And, unfortunately, I told her about the CUP that was in the bar and she had told me they had done a huge cleaning and they were unaware of what that envelope was. It got thrown away. So they didn't have a copy of the CUP that I had there. So we had that
discussion. She had said that the City was contacting
them about hours, and that's the first I heard that there was any issue.

Q Did she ask you to do anything on her behalf or
The Bank's behalf?
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25 A Yes. That was my role. I help where I can. I
want them to be successful. So I went and sent an e-mail to Luke Watson.

Q Luke Watson?
A Yes.

Q If you could, take a look at the evidence on
CaseLines, the evidence under Respondent Moore, M-0-0-R-E, Evidence?
A Uh-huh.

Q Exhibit 9.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Now, your
exhibits are in letters.

MR. CALLAWAY: Sorry. Exhibit H.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Yes,
Exhibit H. Okay.

MR. CALLAWAY: Yes, it's Bates 189 through 194.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Go ahead.

THE WITNESS: Correct, I have got it.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Do you have that document open?
A Yes.

Q Can you tell me what this document is?
A So the first part of it here that I see is my
e-mail to Luke. I gave him the history of what was going on with us, because I hadn't talked to Luke personally
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about it. And then I get into the question about the
hours, and I ask him for help. I ask for help on the
situation.

Q And do you recognize this document to be the
e-mail that you sent?
A Yes.

Q If you look at the top, can you identify the date
and the time?
A It says, "Friday, March 5, 2021."
Q And the e-mail that -- to the right of your name,
is that your correct e-mail?
A Yes.

Q And the e-mail to Luke Watson, do you recognize
that as being the correct e-mail address for him?
A Yes, I do.

Q And the same thing with Amanda Lane?
A Yes. And my ex-wife Christy Puma, that's her
e-mail as well.

Q Are you aware of this e-mail being returned to
you as undelivered?
A No.

Q If you look at the body of the e-mail, does it
appear to be a correct copy of the e-mail you sent on
that day and on that time?
A Yes. I read through it, and this is the e-mail
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that I sent.

Q Can you tell me a little bit about what you were
trying to get accomplished with this e-mail?
A Well, there's two prongs here. One, I don't
understand why the hours were ever changed, and I am kind of asking about that, why was -- why were the hours
changed. And then the other part of the e-mail is, let's get it fixed, that their hours need to be what the
original agreement was in 2008, which was to be able to stay open until 2:00 a.m. as I was originally given.

Q If you scroll to the bottom of page D-189, there
is an --
A I can you give a quick answer, that is what seems
to be officially on the books.

Q I'm sorry. Can you repeat that?
A So he answers me back a short e-mail that says,
"This is what the City has officially on the books."
Q His e-mail predated yours. Do you recall getting
that e-mail from Luke Watson?
A I do. And I don't understand the dating on all
of this, because -- that, I don't understand.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm sorry.

Which page specifically are you referencing, Mr. Callaway? Can you give me a Bates number?
MR. CALLAWAY: D-189.
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THE WITNESS: Yes, it appears my e-mail
supersedes his e-mail. I don't understand how that
happened. I don't understand that.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Had you had any previous communication with
Mr. Watson prior to your e-mail of Friday, March 5th,
which would explain his e-mail to you on February 19th? A I don't remember any -- well, I do remember some
previous -- I would have to look on my computer and see -- it must have because he's answering me before I even sent the e-mail. So I'm not -- I'm sure I had some type of
contact before that.

Q It appears that his e-mail of February 19th is a
forward to you of other e-mails to give you an
understanding of what they're doing relative to this
issue. Is that your understanding of this e-mail?
A Are you talking about subsequent e-mails by other
people?
Q Yes.

A Yes, that's the back and forth within the City.

Q Are these true and correct copies of the e-mails
that you actually received from Mr. Watson on
February 19th, 2021?
A That's the e-mail chain, yes. That's what I was
sent.
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Q Okay.

MR. CALLAWAY: Your Honor, I'd move to move this
e-mail thread into evidence as Exhibit H.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections to my receiving Exhibit H into evidence?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, your Honor. Mr. Puma just
testified he doesn't understand why his e-mail at the top of D-189 is after Mr. Watson's e-mail at the bottom of
189. I object. I don't think we've laid a proper
foundation for this.

MR. CALLAWAY: Your Honor, if I could be heard?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Go ahead.

MR. CALLAWAY: I think that his uncertainly does
not change the fact that the e-mails came on the date they show and time they purport to be and that they are true and correct copies of the e-mails.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Well, I
think he testified that he wasn't sure why it was from
February, but he says he presumed it was because he had a previous conversation with Mr. Watson. But I guess the
question is, did he actually receive these e-mails from Luke Watson and does he recall when. If you can get that information.

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have an original e-mail that is not included in this
e-mail chain. So there was an initial contact on
February 19th.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And you
received these e-mails that are from other folks from -- directly from Luke Watson in that time frame; correct?
THE WITNESS: Correct. And it appears I followed
up with a more -detailed explanation of what was going on on March 5th. My original e-mail just stated that Amanda and Ryan had taken over, and it was a short e-mail. The one shown here is my more -detailed information I gave to Luke.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. I'm
going to admit Exhibit H.
(Exhibit H was received in evidence.)
MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Mr. Puma, if you could direct your attention to
the evidence column, No. 10, Exhibit I?
A Yes.

Q The title page starts at Bates D-195, and the
body of the e-mail start at D-196.

A Yes.

Q Do you have that in front of you?
A Yes, I do.
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Q The first entry on there appears to be an e-mail
from you to Amanda Lane?
A Correct.

Q With a date of Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021, at
10:45 a.m. Do you see that?
A Correct, I do.

Q The e-mail address associated with your name,
does that appear to be the correct e-mail for you as of that date and time?
A Yes.

Q How about the e-mail to Amanda Lane, does that
also appear to be correct?
A Yes.

Q Do you have a recollection of this e-mail being
returned to you as undelivered or undeliverable?
A No.

Q So you make reference here to "PL 14, will clear
up any issues that you have," what are you making
reference to there?
A That's the CUP that the ABC -- before Angela
Reveles -- that's the CUP that the ABC has on file at the county office as being the most recent CUP, and PL 14 was the reference to the hours that were given, which was the hours until 2:00 a.m.

Q And for clarification, you are making reference
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A If that's the application for 2008, yes.

Q Okay. In either respect, in your mind, you are
making reference to the 2008 minor modification extending hours?
A Right.

Q Now as of this time, had you been having
communication with Amanda about the hours issue?
A We had been talking for about two weeks about the
issue, and I got in touch with Ms. Reveles and she
provided this information and I passed that on to Amanda.

Q Can you identify for me who Ms. Reveles is or was
at that time?
A She still is the agent in charge of -- she's one
of the agents that's in charge of the liquor license
process. I don't know her exact title. She has a badge
and she's an official. She does the inspections and is
the go -to person. We became good friends. She's very
responsive when I send her e-mails. She's in charge of
the office in the city of Riverside.

Q So you were in communication with Ms. Reveles
regarding the CUP and hours issue?
A Correct.

Q Is that correspondence or communication that you
initiated?
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A Yes.

Q And were you initiating it on behalf of The Bank?
A Yes.

Q And at the request of Ms. Lane when she brought
to your attention there was issue on the hours?
A Her request was to help her clear up the issue
with the hours. My action was to contact Ms. Reveles.

Q Why did you go --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I don't
mean to interrupt, Mr. Callaway. It's just more efficient for me to get clarification now.

MR. CALLAWAY: Yes, ma'am.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: D-196?
MR. CALLAWAY: Yes, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm trying
to see the name that you are talking about.

THE WITNESS: It says Reveles, Angela at ABC.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: So is this
person an official with ABC?
THE WITNESS: Yes, she's the official.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I don't
see her name. I'm just trying to find it.

THE WITNESS: It's right underneath my e-mail to
Amanda and forward message, her message from Reveles,
Angela at ABC, March 3rd. It says, "Good morning, Craig." www.di QMnesassociates.com
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It's on D-196.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. Got
it. That's R-E-V-E-L-E-S. Go ahead, Mr. Callaway.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q The e-mail that you sent to Amanda, it starts
with "Item PL 14," and ends with "Until 2:00 a.m.." Does that appear to be a true and correct copy of the e-mail that you sent to Amanda at that date and time?
A Yes.

Q And at that time, you were forwarding to her an
e-mail that you had received from Angela Reveles; is that correct?
A Correct.

Q Okay. If you look at the e-mail address for
Angela Reveles, does that appear to be an accurate e-mail address that you have used for her?
A Yes.

Q And that, in fact, is an e-mail that you did
receive from her on the day of March 3rd, 2021, at that time of 10:57 a.m.?
A Yes.

Q Is there a reason that you were communicating
with ABC regarding the hours and not the City, or were you communicating with both?
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A I was communicating with both. My first e-mail
to Luke was in February. I was following up because the information we got wasn't consistent with what I knew how we operate, so then I reached out the ABC.

Q Are you referring to information you received
from the City?
A Well, I received it through Amanda that the hours
of operations had changed to reduced hours that was
inconsistent with what I understood for the last nine
years.

Q As of that time, what were you being told by the
City?
A Well, through Amanda, I was being told that the
hours were being reduced to an existing CUP they had on file that showed hours that ended, for reference, at
10:00 o'clock, and I had no understanding that that even existed, so I went to ABC for the copy that was with them.

And we received back the copy that was originally the copy that had the 2:00 o'clock hours.

Q Referring to the minor modification of 2008?
A Yes.

Q Were you unable to get a copy of that minor
modification from the City?
A I honestly didn't ask them. I asked them for the
current hours, like, what's going on? Why are we being
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told to be closed down at 10:00? So the only thing they could produce was the 2012 version of the CUP.

Q Did you have discussions with them pointing them
to the 2008 minor modification?
A The only discussion I had with them was through
the e-mails that are in evidence here. I didn't have a
phone call at all. Only what is in the e-mails.

Q Did it appear to you at that time, based on the
information you were getting from the City, that they
didn't have the 2008 minor modification?
A I don't know if they had it or not. They didn't
reference it. They should have it. All records are kept on file for every business. They don't throw things away, so they have it somewhere in the file.

Q When you were working to try to help clear up
this issue on behalf of The Bank, did you ever ask
specifically for the 2008 minor modification from the
City?
A I don't remember asking specifically for the
2008, I was more interested in fixing the issue, which was that the current CUP was obviously wrong, because we never did change.

Q To go back to this e-mail from Angela Reveles,
what was your understanding of what she was telling you here?
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MS. PETRUSIS: Objection. Irrelevant.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm going
to -- given that Ms. Reveles is with a totally different agency, I'm not sure what her thought process -- how
that's relevant in this matter, Mr. Callaway. She's not with the City.

MR. CALLAWAY: I'm just trying to get what was
his understanding of the --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I think
he's testified about his understanding, but I'm not sure why the ABC's understanding is in any way relevant.

MR. CALLAWAY: Okay.

THE WITNESS: They are the governing body over
the ABC license.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Mr. Puma,
wait for a question to be asked, please.

THE WITNESS: Sorry.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q So in focusing on that same e-mail, March 3rd, do
you believe that to be true and correct copy of what you received from Ms. Reveles?
A Yes.

Q It appears at the bottom of her e-mail there was
an attachment that we don't have. Do you have a
recollection of what that attachment was?
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A That is the 2008 CUP.

Q Did you do anything with that 2008 minor
modification to the CUP? Did you do anything with it once you received it from Ms. Reveles?
A That's the above e-mail to Amanda. I forwarded
that to Amanda, and this should clear up the issue with the City because that was the CUP that I understood to be correct.

Q Did you personally provide it to anybody other
than Ms. Lane?
A I honestly don't remember if I sent a copy of it
to Luke or not. I don't know.

Q Okay. If we continue down to the next e-mail,
it's your name in bold to Amanda Lane with a date of
March 3, 2021 at 10:46 a.m. Do you see that e-mail?
A What's the page number? I'm sorry.

Q We are still on the same Bates page D-196.

A 196. Okay.

Q And I'm looking at an e-mail from March 3rd,
2021, 10:46 a.m. from you to Amanda Lane.

A Saying, "This is exactly what I needed"?
Q Correct. Do you recognize the e-mail from
Ms. Lane as being an e-mail associated with her?
A Yes. That's her e-mail address, yes.

Q Did this e-mail ever come back to you as
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undelivered or undeliverable?
A No.

Q Does this appear to be a correct copy of your
e-mail from that date and time?
A Yes.

Q Can you tell me what the purpose of this e-mail
was?
A To show her the CUP that I found to be on the
record at the ABC level.

Q Okay. I'm going to go down to the next e-mail,
again, from you. This is dated March 3 -- I'm sorry. We are still on Bates page D-196.

A Right.

Q So this is from you to Luke Watson with a CC to
Amanda Lane?
A Yes.

Q With a date of Wednesday, March 3, 2021 at
10:48 a.m.?
A I can see now that I did send it to Luke, yes.

Q The e-mail address that is associated with
Luke Watson is to the right of his name. Do you recognize that as the e-mail address that was his on that date and time?
A Yes.

Q And the same thing with Amanda Lane?
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A Yes.

Q Was this e-mail to either Mr. Watson or Ms. Lane
returned to you as being undelivered or undeliverable?
A No, I never received it back.

Q Can you tell me what the purpose of this e-mail
was?
A Again, to keep the question open as to the issue
of hours, and keeping the communication open on fixing
issues that I thought they were having.

Q You say, "I'm not sure why you don't have these
conditions in the file for The Bank," was that your
understanding at the time of this e-mail, that you felt the City did not have the 2008 conditions with them?
A Right. I'm referencing why these conditions
aren't in place, yes. I was asking him if he has this
copy.

Q And you wanted to make sure he had this for
reference and consideration?
A Say that again? I'm sorry.

Q You wanted to make sure he had a copy of that for
his reference and consideration?
A Yes.

Q Is that e-mail a true and correct copy of the
e-mail that you sent to Luke Watson with a CC to Amanda Lane as of that date and time?
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A Yes.

Q It appears going -- it appears the bottom of that
e-mail continues on to 197 with an attachment, the
attachment has the number 3874-K. Was that the attachment that you were providing to Mr. Watson?
A The attachment is the ABC attachment. That's the
same document that's been passed back and forth from
Amanda and Luke and everybody.

Q So what you went and got from the ABC, you are
now providing to the City?
A I provided it to the City on the previous e-mail.

This reference is to Amanda and Ryan and their attorney.

Q Okay.

MR. CALLAWAY: Your Honor, I would move to enter
Exhibit I into evidence.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, your Honor. I think the
problem is that included in Exhibit I is something that I would argue is irrelevant, which is an e-mail from an
individual from ABC, apparently.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Well, it
explains how he got the document, and I think it's
relevant for that purpose. So I'll admit Exhibit I, and I'll give it its proper weight.
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(Exhibit I was received in evidence.)
MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Mr. Puma, just to go back to Angela Reveles and
the ABC, in your experience in owning and operating
The Bank and applying for multiple CUPS and multiple
modifications, is it your understanding that ABC keeps
copies of all modifications or all CUPS and modifications? MS. PETRUSIS: Objection. Relevance.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I think we
have covered this ground, Mr. Callaway. Obviously, he got the document from the ABC. I'm not sure why it's relevant whether or not the ABC keeps these documents.

MR. CALLAWAY: I was just addressing your
previous comment about the weight of the document
previously entered into evidence, but I'll move on.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Mr. Puma, following the e-mails that we were just
looking at, did you have any further communication with Amanda regarding the hours issues?
A Well, yes, we've been talking about it -- we have
been talking about it all year. It's one of the subjects we talk about every month. We are trying to get it
cleared up.

Q It's a continuing discussion?
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A Yes.

Q And have you had any further communications with
anybody on behalf of the City other than the
communications and e-mails you have already testified
to --
A No.

Q -- regarding this issue?
A No, I have not.

MR. CALLAWAY: No further questions, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Cross-examination, Ms. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Mr. Puma, CNC Puma Corporation has a business
license for The Bank restaurant; is that right?
A Correct.

Q And Brad Landon is the agent for service of
process for CNC Puma Corporation; isn't that right?
A Correct.

Q Okay. CNC Puma Corporation has paid
approximately $30,000.00 in fines regarding these
violations that have been the subject of this proceeding; isn't that right?
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A I can't be sure of those numbers because I'm not
involved in the day-to-day operations to that extent.

Q But you are aware of the fact that CNC Puma
Corporation has paid at least some amount in fines?
A I'm aware there have been fines. I know it's in
the thousands, yes. That's through discussion with
Amanda.

Q And that fines were paid by CNC Corporation?
A Yes.

Q You testified earlier that you forwarded the 2008
conditions of approval to Mr. Watson, but after you
forwarded those 2008 conditions of approval, CNC Puma
Corporation still continued to receive citations and civil penalty letters; isn't that right?
A That's my understanding, yes.

Q And you personally never appealed any of the
citations or civil penalty letters; isn't that right?
A I personally did not, no.

Q Or anyone on behalf of CNC Corporation?
A I didn't appeal anything. That's not my role at
this point.

Q Did you ever talk to anyone about appealing the
citations or civil penalty letters?
A Again, I had regular conversations with Amanda
about their process, because she's been the one handling a www.di esassociates.com
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lot of that. My understanding is that she's been given -- I don't know if it's in an official capacity or just
through e-mails, and information transfer.

Q So it's your understanding that Amanda Lane has
appealed citations and civil penalty letters?
A I don't have a 100 percent opinion about that. I
don't know what her actual action has been. We have
talked about and she has told me that she's fighting it, so I assume that is some type of appeal. I don't know the process she's taken -- the official process.

Q Has anyone submitted a request to appeal that you
know of --
A Not that I know of.

Q -- with respect to appeal a citation or civil
penalty letter?
A Not that I'm aware of, the exact process, no.

Q Is it your position that the hours of operation
reflected in the 2012 conditions of approval specifically regarding PA 12-0041 are some kind of mistake?
A Absolutely. I think it was an honest mistake.

Q And it's your position that staff mistakenly cut
and pasted those hours from the 2007 conditions of
approval?
A Absolutely.

Q But you didn't look at the conditions of approval
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when you received the notification that application
12-0041 had been approved?
A No. Based on my relationship with the City and
with Stuart, I just filed them, and I was told that music was approved.

Q Okay. Can you please look at City's Exhibit 9
which is page 44?
A Okay.

Q Okay. Do you see the second paragraph on that
letter? It begins with, "Anyone dissatisfied"?
A Yes.

Q Do you see that it states that, "Anyone
dissatisfied with this decision may appeal it within 15 calendar days"?
A Again, I went with the verbal decision. I didn't
read the paperwork, so I wasn't aware.

Q Okay. But do you see that language in Exhibit 9
on page --
A Yes.

Q I'm sorry, sir. You have to let me finish.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Mr. Puma,
if you don't mind, wait for a second for the question to end --
THE WITNESS: I'm waiting --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: There's
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multiple --
THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: -- reasons
for this. Our record gets really messed up, and our poor court reporter isn't able to --
THE WITNESS: Fair enough.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Just pause
for a second. I know I like to jump the gun too.

Ms. Petrusis.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q But do you see that that language about appealing
within 15 calendar days is in this letter in Exhibit 9, page 44?
A Yes, I see that.

Q And just to clarify, you never requested to
appeal the conditions of approval for PA 12-0041; correct? A I did not.

Q And when you requested help from the City, they
referred you to PA 12-0041; isn't that right?
A Correct. Yes, you are correct.

Q And you have never submitted a request to modify
the CUP at issue in these proceedings after PA 12-0041; is that right?
A I did, in an e-mail to Luke Watson.
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Q That's when you requested the director's review?
A Yes, because I discovered the error, and so I
reached out to Luke Watson and asked him to correct the error.

Q One moment, please. Did you ever submit a minor
modification application after 12-0041?
A You are referring to the 2012 application;
correct?
Q Yes. I'm asking, after you received approval for
PA 12-0041, did you ever submit to the City a minor
modification application?
A I don't remember anything after that. No, I did
not.

Q But you were familiar with how to expand hours
for your business operation, which is why you submitted the 2008 minor modification application; isn't that right? A Correct.

Q Did you ever talk to Norman Solomon at any time
about the citation or civil penalties?
A No.

Q Or anyone at Zip Third Investments?
A No.

Q Why not?
A Again, Amanda and Ryan are the ones that are
operating The Bank. The last conversation I had with
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Mr. Solomon was that I was stepping back, in fact, moving out of the county and they would be in charge. And so my only -- my last discussion with him was regarding that
change, which he agreed to verbally and understood that they were going to be the ones that he would be dealing with. He and I have not had cause to speak since.

Q But you were still at least on the board of
directors at CNC Puma when you had that conversation with Mr. Solomon?
A I believe the conversation happened while I was
in charge, and I was telling him and was relinquishing my control of CNC Puma Corporation.

Q I'm confused. You said you relinquished control,
but you also earlier testified you were on the board of directors?
A I'm on the board. I'm part owner of CNC, but I'm
not an operating officer that operates The Bank. The
operators are Amanda and Ryan. I'm more in an advisory
position because I'm still involved in the company, but I don't deal with the day-to-day operations, that is Amanda and Ryan's role.

Q But the current business license on file with the
City is still in the name of CNC Puma Corporation; is that right?
A Yes.
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Q So turning to City's Exhibit A, page 40.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Exhibit A?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, please. City's -- I'm sorry.

City's Exhibit 8.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Sorry.

MS. PETRUSIS: I was confusing myself. I
apologize. And page 40.

THE WITNESS: Yes.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So you should be seeing the copy of the minor
modification application --
A Yes.

Q -- asking for a musical addition inside for
background music?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And you testified earlier that you wanted
just some background music during the lunch and dinner
crowds?
A Yeah, yes.

Q So turning now to City's Exhibit 9 and,
specifically, page 46.

A Okay.

Q And if you look at No. 9 on that page, the City
granted your request for background music. Is that your understanding?
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A Yes.

Q And it permits you to have -- or permits The Bank
to have indoor dinner entertainment consisting of one
keyboard or other instrument played with one vocalist for the purpose of providing background music daily from noon until 10:00 p.m. Do you agree that that's accurate about what the City permitted?
A I believe that's accurate from what I requested,
yes.

Q Do you believe that a DJ conforms to Condition
No. 9?
MR. CALLAWAY: Objection, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: What's
your objection?
MR. CALLAWAY: Its relevance.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Overruled.

You can answer the question, Mr. Puma.

THE WITNESS: I believe a DJ is already legal
because it's electronic music and electronic music is
already allowed in the restaurant.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q It's your understanding a restaurant can have a
DJ already without a CUP?
A My understanding, the music that was in question
that I had -- I had electrical music through speakers the www.di 1422nesassociates.com
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entire time I had the restaurant, and that's completely legal, to my understanding. And the question came up and my need for the modification came up when it became live music and live entertainment. Live music is different
than electronic music according to City ordinance. Once it was, that's when I needed to have the modification. So a DJ would be consistent with what would be allowed.

Q So you don't believe a DJ constitutes the live
entertainment that requires a CUP? Did I understand you correctly?
A That's my understanding of the ordinance, yes.

Whether I'm providing music or a DJ is providing music, we are providing electronic music, not live.

Q What about a drag show? Do you believe that's
permitted by Condition No. 9?
A You know, I don't even know --
MR. CALLAWAY: Objection, your Honor. Relevance.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Overruled.

THE WITNESS: Your Honor, it's getting into what
I believe is entertainment and what Amanda believes is
entertainment. And my understanding of this is we can
have live entertainment. I don't know -- a drag show may not be my thing, but -- I don't see -- if that's what they want to do, I think it's within the guideline. It's
entertainment. It's live entertainment.
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MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, I don't think I got a
response.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Hold on a
second, Mr. Puma.

Perhaps we can ask a rephrased pointed question,
Ms. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: Sure.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So you were present in this hearing and listened
to the testimony of Investigator Jeff Letourneau earlier this morning; didn't you?
A Yes.

Q And you heard him testify about performers
performing during a drag show, and the specific
performances that they gave; right?
A Yes.

Q And that there was singing, lip syncing, and some
dancing; correct?
A Yes.

Q And do you believe that this type of
entertainment, live entertainment, conforms with Condition No. 9 in the conditions of approval?
A I think it conforms to the intention of what we
were doing with live entertainment, yes. My understanding would be yes, it does conform.
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Q Okay.

A Yes.

Q Is that because the performers were limited to
one keyboard?
A No. To answer your question directly, it has to
do with -- it's live entertainment inside. That was the issue with the City that live entertainment inside
required a permit. I'm the one that said my intention was to have a keyboard and that is what was put in there, but the intention is live entertainment inside. I was not
allowed to have live entertainment outside.

Q Okay. But Condition No. 9 doesn't just say,
"Live entertainment inside," does it?
A No, it says what it says. But I think that live
entertainment is live entertainment.

Q Okay. So you admit that No. 9 says what it says,
but you have a different interpretation of what you're
allowed to do at The Bank?
A Based on your question, yes, I do.

Q Okay. And do you see in No. 9 that it says
"Daily from noon until 10:00 p.m."?
A Yes.

Q So live entertainment, you just testified that
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that they're permitted to perform until 11:30 p.m. on a Wednesday night?
A Based on this, no, I don't think that that's what
it says there. The intention was during dinner. So
dinner went past 10:00, then I would allow it. Me, if I was there.

MS. PETRUSIS: If I could just have a brief
moment, your Honor, to review my notes?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Sure.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you.

THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I would like to take a
brief moment to grab a glass of water.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

MS. PETRUSIS: I just have a couple of more
questions.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So if I understand you correctly -- and please
correct me if I'm wrong -- when these citations and civil penalty letters were coming in in early -- or starting in early 2021, you testified that you were not involved in the day-to-day operations at that point; is that right? A Correct.

Q Did you ever discuss with Amanda Lane or anyone
who was involved in the day-to-day operations of the
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25 business about submitting a minor modification application to the City?
A My only -- well, we did talk about the process,
yes. But you are -- it's kind of -- I don't know how to describe what you are saying because --
Q Hang on a second --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Wait just
a moment, Mr. Puma. If you could just answer only the
question asked. It's her job to make sure she asks the
right question.

THE WITNESS: Okay. Please ask the question
again.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Okay. In early 2021, after the citations and
civil penalty letters started coming in directly to CNC Puma Corporation, did you ever have a conversation with anyone involved in the day-to-day operations of The Bank regarding submitting a minor modification application?
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, the question is not
answerable.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: If you
don't understand the question, say you don't understand the question.

THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question.

Having a discussion about a minor modification, that
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was -- we talked about it, but we were trying to fix what was the error. That was part of the discussion, yes.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Okay. And what was the conclusion? Because you
testified that a minor modification application was never submitted to the City.

A Correct. Nothing was submitted, and after that,
notification of this hearing came to me so we stopped
talking about it. We stopped talking about applying for the minor modification and started talking about the
hearing.

Q When did you start talking about applying for a
minor modification?
A In the e-mail that you have in possession, that
states to Luke -- I was asking him about the process of getting a director's review and correcting the error that I felt was in the CUP that we had in possession. So that was the discussion with Luke, and I was talking with
Amanda about it as well.

Q And so that was in -- bear with me.

A Are you referring to the e-mails?
Q Yes, I just want to make sure I don't get this
date wrong. I'll let you know when I get there. So are
you referring to Exhibit H, page 189?
A Yes.
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25 Q Okay. That e-mail from you to Mr. Watson that is
dated March 5, 2021; correct?
A Correct.

Q And the notification of this revocation
proceeding that the planning director is recommending that the CUP be revoked, what date is that notification?
A I have no idea. I don't remember when that
started.

Q Okay. So --
A If you have an e-mail for reference?
Q Yes. Give me one moment, sir. Okay. City's
Exhibit 13 at page 200.

A I didn't receive this. I was called and told
about it from Amanda because I don't have a mailing
address at the Front Street location anymore.

Q Okay. But CNC Puma Corporation received it;
isn't that right?
A According to this, yes. Amanda -- yes.

Q And the date of this letter is May 19, 2022.

Does that refresh your recollection about when this
revocation process started?
A Right. So that would have been -- I probably
would have heard about it shortly after this letter, late May. That's fair to say.

Q Okay. So you testified earlier that you started
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talking about applying for a minor modification around the time that you communicated with Luke, which was around -- which was March 5, 2021, when you sent that e-mail. And when did you stop talking about applying for a minor
modification?
A I put it out there to do. I didn't really follow
up on it myself.

MS. PETRUSIS: Okay. No further questions.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Ms. Martyn, cross-examination?
MS. MARTYN: Yes, your Honor. Thank you.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Just a few questions, Mr. Puma. First of all,
just to confirm, you were the person who filed the 2008 and 2012 CUP modifications; correct?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And when you did so, you had -- am I
correct in saying you had to obtain the signature of the property owner?
A Yes.

Q And I believe that was Maureen Licata at that
time?
A Yes.
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Q And you understood that the property owner was
the person who held the CUP; is that correct?
A That is not my understanding. It's the
restaurant that owns the CUP or is required to have the CUP. The building owner is required to be notified of
any -- some of the offerings at the property. They have to be notified about construction, if you are going to
change the property. A 47 license and hours of operation, they have to be notified, but it's the restaurant that
holds the CUP.

Q Okay. That's your understanding?
A That's my understanding.

Q Okay. Can you tell me when in 2020 the
corporation filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection? A That was done by Amanda and Ryan, so they have --
Q After your time?
A I don't have the records on that.

Q So after February of 2020?
A It would have been after February of 2020, yes.

Q Okay. One more question, do you recall receiving
e-mails in April of 2022 regarding setting for the initial hearing date for this revocation hearing?
A April of 2022?
Q Yes.

A I could have. Again, I would have to look at my
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e-mails.

Q Okay.

A I'm trying to remember. That's probably correct.

Q Okay. If you can give me just one second. I'll
be right back with you. Hold on. If we can go to
Respondent's Bates stamp B-415, Exhibit C-34?
A Exhibit what?
Q If --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm
sending the direction.

MS. MARTYN: Thank you so much.

BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Mr. Puma, if you will scroll down --
THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. I don't understand the
direction, your Honor, that you sent me.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. Did
you get a pop up, Mr. Puma?
THE WITNESS: I'm on the -- I'm looking at all of
the different evidence on the side.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: You are on
CaseLines; correct?
THE WITNESS: Right. I just need an exhibit
letter.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Did you
receive a pop up?
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right?
THE WITNESS: That's back on the Zoom meeting;
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: No, that's
on CaseLines.

THE WITNESS: No, I didn't receive that.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Maybe I'm not giving the direction. So Mr. Puma, if you go up to the top of the page, you'll see some tabs, "Home, Find, View, Present, Notes," do you see those at the top of CaseLines?
THE WITNESS: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Can you
click on "Find"?
THE WITNESS: Okay.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And when
you go to Find, if you look a little bit towards your
right, there should be an empty box where you can type in a number. And if you type in "B-414" and hit enter, it
will take you to that page.

THE WITNESS: Sorry, your Honor. I did Find and
it says "Previous Document, Next Document." I don't see anything with a blank.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Okay. If you move to the right, there should be some
boxes, and there should be a box where you can type text. www.di esassociates.com
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Do you see that?
THE WITNESS: No.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: No? All
right. Never mind. In that case, if you can go down --
THE WITNESS: Just give me the case number.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: If you see
"Respondent Documents, Respondent Evidence," do you see that tab on the left-hand side?
THE WITNESS: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: If you go
down and click on tab no. 40.

THE WITNESS: Okay. I'm there.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And scroll
down to B-414. Do you see it?
THE WITNESS: Yes, correct, I have it.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Now,
Ms. Martyn.

BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Now that you are there it's easier for me to ask.

Mr. Puma, if you can scroll down to B-415. So the page
below, as you can see, this is the beginning of an e-mail chain to Erika Ramirez, deputy city clerk. I'm just
confirming that you -- this is your e-mail address and
that you received this e-mail on or about April 25th
setting the original hearing dates for this hearing?
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A My e-mail address is there, yes, I see that. I
just want to be accurate so I'll look at it.

Q Take your time.

MS. PETRUSIS: Your Honor, while we are
waiting -- I'm so sorry to interrupt you. Can you check to see if there's anybody in the waiting room?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I don't
have anyone in the waiting room that I can see.

MS. PETRUSIS: Okay. Thank you, your Honor. I
apologize.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: No
problem.

Go ahead, Mr. Puma.

THE WITNESS: So I have an e-mail dated
April 28th, yes. Okay. So here it is. I have that
e-mail.

BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Great. And around that time, did you and
Ms. Lane discuss possible hearing dates?
A Yes, we discussed that for a while.

Q Okay. And so you can confirm that this is an
e-mail that you received and participated in? And I'm
offering only to show the date of the e-mail.

A Yes.

Q Okay. You ultimately received a notice from
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Ms. Ramirez showing a hearing date sometime before this one; is that correct?
A Before this e-mail?
Q No, before the dates set out in this e-mail?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: For the
hearing.

BY MS. MARTYN:

Q Yes, for the hearing. I'm sorry. I didn't mean
to ask that confusing question.

A Yes, on August 19th. Yes.

Q Great. Thank you.

MS. MARTYN: Your Honor, if I can enter this
document as the Respondent's -- I guess?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I need to
find out what exhibit it is. Hold on a second.

MS. MARTYN: It's C-34.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I
understand what tab it is. It's been marked as a document with letters. I need to find what letter this is.

MS. MARTYN: Hang on one second. I can tell you
that.

MR. CALLAWAY: Your Honor, LL.

MS. MARTYN: This is LL, and the page numbers
would be, I think, 414 and 415.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.
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Here's the problem. I can't take a part of an exhibit -- I can't admit two pages of an exhibit, it's either the
entire exhibit or I don't.

MS. MARTYN: The entire exhibit is fine.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I need to
make sure I have foundation for the entire exhibit. Let me see what this exhibit includes. Exhibit LL is 424 to 429, so there's a substantial number of documents in here.

Some of them are redacted.

MS. MARTYN: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Perhaps
you can lay a foundation for all of these documents?
MS. MARTYN: I can lay a foundation for the -- I
think that we are working on that with Mr. Puma for the documents that are between him and Erika Ramirez, the
clerk, as to the dates or potential hearing dates
beginning as early as April 25th.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And you
did that; right --
MS. MARTYN: And the remainder would have been
redacted by the City. I didn't mean to interrupt you,
your Honor.

MS. PETRUSIS: What is the relevance?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections to receiving LL into evidence?
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MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, I object. What's the
relevance?
MS. MARTYN: I want to show that there was a
discussion of the hearing date in advance of the May 19th letter.

MS. PETRUSIS: And I don't know what that's
relevant to for purposes of these proceedings.

MS. MARTYN: Well, the other part of it is -- I
want to show that there's no mention of anybody from
Zip Third at the time this hearing date was originally
discussed in this e-mail chain, and I do think that's
relevant.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Understood.

Any other objections?
MS. PETRUSIS: I still think that issue is not
relevant to these proceedings. I don't know what that has to do --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: We've
already established they have an ownership interest to the permit. I think it is relevant. I'll admit Exhibit LL.
(Exhibit LL was received in evidence.)
MS. MARTYN: Thank you, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
further questions, Ms. Martyn?
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MS. MARTYN: No further questions. Thank you
very much, Mr. Puma.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
redirect?
MS. PETRUSIS: No.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Mr. Puma, you may be released. I think we need
to take a break. We've been going for a couple of hours.

THE WITNESS: Do I need to be here for the entire
hearing, or can I --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Well, I
think you might want to talk to your attorney about that.

Let's go off the record.
(There was a pause in the proceedings.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: We are
back on the record after the break.

Mr. Callaway, your next witness.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor. Respondent
calls Amanda Moore.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Ms. Moore,
are you there?
MS. LANE: Yes, I'm here. One second. Let me
get video. My last name is Lane, just for the record.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Hold on
just one second. We'll get there.
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MS. LANE: Everyone keeps using the wrong last
name.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Ms. Lane,
I'm going to place you under oath. Please raise your
right hand.

AMANDA LANE,
called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn by the Administrative Law Judge, was examined and testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. Put
your hand down. Could you please state and spell your
full name for me?
THE WITNESS: Amanda Nicole Lane, A-M-A-N-D-A,
N-I-C-O-L-E, L-A-N-E.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And was
your name previously Amanda Moore, M-0-0-R-E?
THE WITNESS: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.
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DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Good morning, Ms. Moore. Are you presently
employed?
A Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I didn't
hear that answer.

THE WITNESS: Yes, I'm presently employed.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Go ahead,
Mr. Callaway.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q And who are you employed by right now?
A One of the owners of CNC Puma Corporation.

Q Okay.

MR. CALLAWAY: And, your Honor, is it me or is it
getting a little jumpy on the witness's side with her?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I heard
her, but I need to make sure she's close to the
microphone. I heard her okay.

MR. CALLAWAY: Okay. Thank you.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Do you have a present relationship with the
corporation, CNC Puma?
A Yes.

Q And what is that relationship?
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A CEO and president.

Q And when did you first become CEO -- strike that.

Did you become CEO and president at the same time?
A Yes.

Q And when was that?
A February 27th of 2020.

Q And can you describe your employment duties with
CNC Puma Corporation?
A That may take a while. Everything that you can
imagine with running a restaurant from scheduling payroll, day-to-day operations, orderings, bills, everything.

Q So you are active in the daily operation of
The Bank; correct?
A Correct.

Q Does that include an actual on -site presence at
The Bank during its operating hours?
A Not always, but yes.

Q Okay. So you have that side of it, and then more
of an administrative side, would that be accurate?
A Correct.

Q Putting aside the administrative side part for
right now, as far as your activities and duties inside the restaurant, are those both during open hours and closed hours?
A Yes.
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Q Okay. With respect to open hours when The Bank
is open and operating, what are the duties that you tend to fulfill there at The Bank?
A Depends on the day. So anything from
administrative duties, to bussing a table, hosting,
dealing with law enforcement, dealing with community,
people in the community, other businesses. It's a broad scope of things.

Q Do you have a set schedule for being at The Bank?
A No.

Q How about as far as your hours that you work at
The Bank, do you tend to work day hours versus night or a mixture of both?
A Mixture of both. It's more nights than days.

Q Are there particular days that you tend to work
night hours more often?
A Thursday through Sunday.

Q Is there a particular reason for that?
A Monday through Wednesday, I do more day
administrative work.

Q Is your Thursday through Sunday schedule related
in any way to the level of activity at The Bank?
A Yes, it's busier in general Thursday through
Sunday from the time they open on.

Q What time do you open on Thursdays, Fridays,
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Saturdays, and Sundays, and if it varies from day to day, just let us know.

A We're closed on Monday. Tuesday through Friday,
we open at 11:00, and Saturday and Sunday we open at 9:00.

Q And can you describe what type of establishment
The Bank is? If someone wanted a description of the
restaurant, whatever it is, what would you say?
A It's a bar and restaurant.

Q Any particular cuisine or anything like that,
that you focus on?
A Mexican cuisine.

Q Would it be accurate to say that you work -- that
you regularly will work Friday, Saturday, and Sunday
nights?
A Yes.

Q And how late do you typically stay open on a
Friday, Saturday, and Sunday?
A Friday and Saturday, we close at 2:00 o'clock or
sometimes a little before, and Sunday we close anywhere between 10:00 and 12:00 normally. Sometimes it goes a
little over 12:00.

Q Does the variance that you just talked about,
does that depend on the amount of business that you are having?
A Correct.
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Q Do you have a particular job that you tend to do
on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday night, say, from
9:00 o'clock on until closing?
A On those nights, I'm overseeing the entire place.

So for the most part, I'm normally outside on the corner.

And then every time someone needs something, whether it's fix a register, problem with a customer, bathroom is out or something, all kinds of reasons, I go and handle
whatever it is that needs to be handled.

Q When you say "outside on the corner," what are
you tending to do then?
A Overlook the -- because of the way the restaurant
is set up, that's the spot you can see most of the
restaurant at one time. So I do capacity control, watch people that are coming in to make sure they're not
intoxicated before letting them in, that's my -- capacity is one of my major ones.

Q Can you describe for me --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Mr. Callaway, you broke up there for a second. Can you
hear me?
MR. CALLAWAY: I can.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. We
had some connection issues for second. Can you repeat
that question?
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MR. CALLAWAY: Sure.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q On a Friday, Saturday, Sunday night from, let's
say, 9:00 p.m. to closing, can you tell me -- kind of give me a general idea of what type of environment you are
working in. What does the streets look like, the activity level, the general description?
A It's very, very busy on those days. There's lots
of foot traffic. Lots of road traffic. People bouncing
from one place to another. That's the gist of it.

Q Well -- I'm sorry. I didn't know if you had
finished on your response?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And what streets are you -- strike that.

You are at the corner of an intersection; is that correct? A Correct.

Q What streets are you at the corner of?
A Old Town Front Street and Main.

Q So your restaurant has exposure to both streets?
A Correct.

Q And is the opening to the restaurant kind of
where those two streets come together?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And how many lanes of traffic are there in
each direction in front of your restaurant? Let's start www.di esassociates.com
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with Front Street.

A There's one lane in each direction.

Q And how about the other intersection street?
A There's also one lane in either direction.

Q Separated by a sidewalk between the street and
your establishment?
A Yes.

Q So on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday night in the
evening, the nighttime hours, would you or could you
describe the amount of activity around your intersection compared to other parts of Old Town?
A We have the busiest intersection. Pretty much
everything goes through our intersection. So there's
parking behind -- between City Hall and us, there's two parking areas that the City has taken over, and a parking structure above us, and a parking lot behind that is open to the public, and Pennypickles parking lot. There's
hundreds of parking spots within 200 or 300-foot radius, plus the street parking.

Q Okay. Is it parallel street parking along the
curb?
A Yes.

Q Is there any parking that is designated for
The Bank?
A No.
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25 Q So everything is public?
A Yes.

Q Okay. So when you are out on the street, I'm
assuming that you have quite a bit of interaction with
people coming and going by there?
A Yes.

Q Coming into the restaurant?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Do you have an -- so where you are
located, are there people that may be parked near your
restaurant that go to other places in Old Town?
A A ton.

Q So you get a lot of people coming by that aren't
necessarily going into your restaurant?
A Yes.

Q And in your history and experience, do people
tend to visit multiple establishments in a single evening? A Yes, they do.

Q Okay. Now, you have people at the front door
assisting with crowd control with people coming in and
going out; is that correct?
A Yes.

Q What is your working relationship with respect to
them? Are you a supervisor or are you there in addition to them? How can you explain that?
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25 A I'm the supervisor to everyone.

Q Okay. Do you currently have security at
The Bank?
A We do.

Q Do you have licensed security at The Bank?
A Yes, we do.

Q Okay. Do you know how many security people you
are required to have based on the occupancy rating for the restaurant?
A There is no requirement for how many people --
how many security guards you need to have per occupancy.

Q So Friday, Saturday, Sunday, how many licensed
security people do you staff?
A About three.

Q Okay. And then yourself in addition to that?
A Yes and no. We have a PSE, so we are -- we are
the employers for the security guys that we have.

Q Okay. So can you describe for me a little bit
for me what is it you're out there doing?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm sorry
to interrupt. What is a PSE?
THE WITNESS: Propriety employment --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's a proprietary
private --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: No, no,
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no. I need her to answer the question. She's under oath.

THE WITNESS: I would have to look it up. I
would have to look up what the actual --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. So
you don't know what the acronym stands for?
THE WITNESS: Sitting here right now, no.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Do you
know generally what it is?
THE WITNESS: Yes, it's private security -- so we
can -- our private security firm, so to speak, so that we can hire our own security and license them. We have a
license. They're licensed under us.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Go ahead, Mr. Callaway.

MR. CALLAWAY: Okay. Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Tell me, generally, what type of activity you are
seeing generally on a Friday or Saturday night 10:00,
11:00, 12:00 o'clock at night?
A There's a lot of activity. So everything from
people coming and going to dinner at different
restaurants, groups of people walking around looking for places to go, bachelorette parties, wedding parties,
homeless people, intoxicated people walking around, people running stop signs. There's -- I can go on forever about www.di esassociates.com
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the types of people I see.

Q When you are out in the front, is one of the
things you are doing screening people for coming into your establishment?
A Yes, always.

Q What types of things are you looking for in that
process?
A There's a few things I look for. First is
intoxication. It's an easy one to pick out. And so if
they're stumbling, stuttering, not being able to walk
straight, any of that kind of stuff, if they have that
general look of they are looking for trouble kind of
thing, motorcycle clubs, we don't allow them, and things like that. That's mostly what I'm looking for, anything that would cause a potential problem for us or the
community for that matter, I'm looking for.

Q Are you screening people who want to come into
your establishment?
A Yes.

Q And if you make a determination that they're
intoxicated, what do you do with them?
A They're denied entry.

Q How about if you think they're looking to cause
trouble?
A I call one of the officers of RSO.
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Q RSO, is that Riverside County Sheriff's?
A Yes, Riverside County Sheriff's Office.

Q Are you the person who would make the
determination whether to deny somebody entry into the
establishment?
A I'm one of the people. The licensed security
guards would also have the right to do that.

Q And so is this people who have been in your
establishment and they have been over drinking, or people coming in off the street or coming from another location? A Coming from another location trying to enter our
establishment.

Q How often do you turn people away for what you
believe to be an impaired intoxicated state?
A Numerous times a night on a Friday and Saturday,
or Sunday for that matter.

Q And the same question with respect to people that
you see are looking to cause trouble?
A That's less often. It's less often it happens.

It's not as prevalent.

Q Is that a difficult job?
A Yes.

Q In what way?
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for any reason, and then having to decide whether that's something I need to contact an RSO officer about or not contact them about depending on the severity that I feel of what is going on. Because I don't want to overburden them with things they don't need to be burdened with, but I also want to keep everyone safe. So it's a judgment
call sometimes.

Q So again, difficult job?
A Yes.

Q But you still are out there regularly on Friday
and Saturday nights doing that?
A Every Friday and Saturday night.

Q And how about with respect to people inside your
restaurant, are you -- do you have any role in crowd
control security from that standpoint?
A I do all of the above. So I probably, -- once
every half hour, at least, I walk through the entire
place. The Bank is unique. It has many different areas, and we have different capacity numbers for each area. So what we worked out with the fire marshal with how to
control that capacity is way harder than every other place around here has.

I'm constantly going through, counting everyone,
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restaurant to make sure there's no -- same thing, I'm not seeing anyone that is impaired, looks like they're going to cause any problems, that --
Q So --
A Go ahead.

Q So if somebody is showing signs of impairment,
they're looking like they're going to cause problems, what is your reaction? What do you do in response to that?
A Call one of the licensed security guards to
escort them out.

Q Do you ever escort them out personally, or do you
get security involved?
A I always get security involved.

Q Do you have any capacity as a supervisor with
respect to the bartenders?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Tell me what it is you do with respect to
the bartenders?
A Everything from scheduling, to pour testing them,
to making sure they have all their up-to-date liquor
certification that went into effect today. I do
everything, so it's -- like I said, that's a long-winded question also. I constantly am checking on the
bartenders, servers, the cooking staff.

Q I think you mentioned something about licensing
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that went into effect today, did I catch that correctly? A Yes.

Q And what is it that happened or went into effect
today with respect to bartenders?
A Actually, anyone who essentially touches alcohol
in anyway, even if it's served to the table by anybody.

So we had our entire staff -- minus our dishwashers --
cooks, all get certified. It's a liquor certification
through ABC.

Q And the people that you mentioned, have they
already complied with that licensure requirement effective today?
A Yes.

Q What did getting license entail? What did that
require them to do?
A They had to go on the ABC website and register
with them and, essentially, take a class on another site.

They could pick between many. They have to pay a fee to ABC and pay a fee for a class and then get certified, and then they had to send the certification back to ABC and get their certification number.

Q Do you do anything with respect to the bartenders
as far as training?
A Yes.

Q Can you tell me a little bit about that?
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A They do pour tests training. They have to keep
up to date on their TIPS or LEAD. So we always go over
just in general, normally every Friday and Saturday night after we close. I have a ton of kids, so I learned that repetition is really good.

So we just go over, you know, what is over
serving, what is not over serving, how many drinks per
hour, how many drinks one person is allowed to purchase at the time for a group of people. You have to be able to
see every person that a drink is being ordered for. If
they feel anyone is impaired or becoming intoxicated or becoming a problem, a bartender can also cut them off and have them, essentially, thrown out for lack of a better word.

Q Do you get involved in that process of throwing
somebody out if they're over -impaired?
A Yes.

Q Is that when you would get security involved to
escort them out?
A Yes.

Q You mentioned over pouring, what do you mean by
that?
A Every restaurant has their ounce count for what
their particular drinks are. Some are an ounce, some are an ounce and a half. So they're constantly tested to make www.di esassociates.com
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sure they can pour the exact right amount.

Q Now, how about in terms of over pouring with
respect to serving people who are visibly intoxicated?
A They would be over serving, not over pouring.

Q Thank you for the correction.

A Over serving is something that gets touched on
constantly. Not that they do it, I just think it's best if you continuously remind them, if you are selling a lot of anything in a quick amount of time, you have got to
keep aware all of the time of who's in front of you.

And many times at a bar, someone will order a
drink for the tables or the restaurant, and you need to not just look at the person who is ordering the drinks, but you look at everybody at the table and make sure
everybody is okay to have alcohol.

Q So what types of instruction do -- strike that.

Do you instruct your bartenders on how to avoid over
serving?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And tell me a little bit about what you
say in that respect or what you supervise them with or
educate them on?
A Same things I kind of went over. Making sure
that the people don't look or seem intoxicated, keeping track of how much that person has had to drink, not giving www.di esassociates.com
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25 someone more than one drink at a time, if they're ordering for someone else, they have to visually see the other
person that the person is ordering for. And that's why
ABC just put this license into effect because -- to put it on the bartenders and servers. If they are to over serve, they actually get their license taken away and they can never bartend or serve again.

Q You testified earlier that it's common for people
in Old Town to be going to multiple locations on a given night; is that correct?
A Yes. On Friday and Saturday night, I would say
probably 70 percent of the people that come through have been to two or more of the restaurants and bars in the
area.

Q Do you think that makes your job more difficult
as far as screening people to come into your establish? A I don't think it's more difficult. I would do
the same job whether I know if they were somewhere else or not. They could have been drinking at home for all I
know. I don't think it makes it more difficult.

Q How about with respect to the issue of over
serving, does the fact that maybe somebody has had
alcohol recently at another location play a part in
determining who is intoxicated within your place?
A Yes. So the only time that would come into play
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25 is, say, someone was down the street at -- I don't know if I can name other restaurants by name or not. But if
someone was down the block at Pub & Grub and had a drink there or two drinks there in a short amount of time then came straight here, the alcohol wouldn't have hit their system yet, so when they got here, they may seem fine.

Then we serve them one drink, and even though
that one drink wouldn't make them intoxicated, they are intoxicated because they had drinks prior to getting here that we didn't know about, and when they got to our
property, the alcohol hadn't hit their system so you can't tell. We don't have a breathalyzer to test everybody that walks on the property.

Q Right. As far -- so, again, a typical Friday,
Saturday, Sunday night, it sounds like you are really
dividing up your time and attention to things both outside and inside the restaurant?
A Yes, most of it is outside. But, yes, I do --
every time they need something, I do go inside. When I go inside, either Ryan, the other owner, or the GM, Chris, will take over my spot.

Q Tell me, do things change later at night, let's
say, 1:30 to 2:00 o'clock? Does the crowd change? The
level of activity? How busy it is? What are things like out on the street during that time?
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25 A The level of activity is probably the same, the
kind of activity changes because then you have a lot of intoxicated people walking around Old Town or driving
around Old Town. I make many phone calls to the Sheriff's Department to turn in everything from drunk drivers to
people running stop signs to the guy running down the
street punching cars. None of which had anything to do
with us, but because of where we're at, I can see two
blocks in every direction. So I have a pretty good
vantage point to kind of help them out, because I know
they don't have a lot of people down there.

Q What else do you see with people? Do you see
people vomiting at night -- that late at night?
A Yes. Not from our place, but yes, there are
people that vomit, there's people that are passed out,
people that have fallen in the middle of the street
because they're drunk. There's a ton of people in the
back parking lot. If I happen to park in the back parking lot and I go to my vehicle, they're peeing in the back
parking lot.

Q And this is from people leaving all different
establishments in Old Town; correct?
A Yes.

Q And the people vomiting and passing out, you see
it up and down the street from your vantage point?
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25 A Yes. I also see fights up and down the street.

Q When you -- you mentioned that you make calls and
you also talked a little bit about the Riverside County Sheriff's Office, do you have communication -- strike
that. Do you have the ability to communicate with them
should you see a need to get them involved in something? A Yes, I have numerous of their personal cell phone
numbers.

Q So you have that on your phone?
A Yes.

Q Do you know any of the sheriff's officers by
name?
A Over the last two years, I know more than half of
them by name.

Q And who are some of the ones that -- strike that.

Is there a group of sheriffs that are designated to be in Old Town on Friday and Saturday nights?
A There is. Although, they do have guys that fill
in for them. So we do have ones down here that we don't normally have, but we do have a group that is quote,
unquote, normally in Old Town on the weekends.

Q And is there usually a sheriff that is
supervising them?
A They have a sergeant.

Q I'm sorry. Sergeant.
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25 A That have a sergeant that supervises what they
call the Metro Unit which is down here. Since we have
owned it, there have been four different sergeants that have ran the Metro Unit.

Q And who is the current sergeant that's down
there?
A Josh Hephner.

Q Do you know Sergeant Hephner personally?
A Yes.

Q Do you have his cell phone number on your phone?
A I do.

Q If there's a night that he's there and you are
working, would it be common for you to have interaction with him every night at least one time?
A Normally, numerous times a night. And whether
he's working -- because I don't know when he has a day
off. But I normally will -- if it's something that's not an emergency, I will text him first because sometimes
they're on call. So I either call or text. And he also
stops by just to chitchat about how things are going,
anything we have noticed. We have had other more -detailed conversations about other things I can go into.

Q Do you ever have just personal conversations,
just idle chitchat?
A Yes.
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25 Q What type of -- do you have a standard on what
something has to occur or escalate to in order to call the A Anything that happens off of our property that I
feel is public safety issue, or anything that's on our
property that I feel our security cannot handle.

Q Can you give me an example of some of those
situations?
A A drunk driver would be someone off of our
property that I would call in. Fighting -- this just
happened two weeks ago, there were two guys punching each other in the middle of the street in front of Pub & Grub.

Last weekend, there was a guy that was hitting a girl and another guy came up and punched him. And that was all in the middle of the street down by the antique shop.

If someone was going -- say someone is leaving
one of the restaurants, and I can tell by the way they're walking they're impaired, and they get into a vehicle, and I call one of them to tell them that person is about to drive and give them a description of the vehicle and where they're at.

During COVID, someone was breaking into places,
so we called about that. Anything that looks like -- it's a long list. Anything that looks like it's going to be an issue for the public in general.
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25 Q So not just having to do with your restaurant,
but the larger surrounding community of restaurants as a whole?
A Yes, I would say that most of my calls have
nothing to do with our restaurant.

Q Have you had people come up to you out on the
street asking you to call the police for something or
asking you to get involved?
A Yes.

Q Can you describe any of those occasions?
A We had a woman last year that had her vehicle
stolen, and she came running up to us crying, asking for help, and said her car was stolen. And we gave her water and calmed her down and called the police and had them
come take a report to help her out. That's one instance.

Q How would you characterize your relationship with
law enforcement in Old Town?
A That is a double -sided question. I was on call
yesterday. So I would say it has been, throughout the
last two years, incredibly good. The sergeants -- I mean, I have birthday wishes from them -- from officers, from the sergeants. From Christmas stuff, I've seen them out at out places, Costco and stuff, off work, and have
chitchats with them, and they come up to me.

They have asked me for help on many occasions.
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25 Because we have 19 cameras on property, they've asked for information on vehicles that were involved in something and they needed the license plate and our cameras are able to grab the license plate. So I would say no less than 15 times have they gotten footage from our cameras to help their case.

Q Do you feel comfortable reaching out to them?
A Yes.

Q Is there a sense of community or comradery with
them as far as trying to make a positive impact on the
surrounding community?
A There has been, there was a little bit of a shift
after the shooting. We had a Zoom call with Captain Hall, who I had talked to, whose the captain for this area, and he had called me a year prior and had numerous
conversations on the phone. He had asked personally for us to do a couple of things, like stanchions to clear the sidewalk so that people were in a straight line and not impeding the sidewalk at all.

We were asked to close early. We were told the
City asked us to close early, at midnight, and all of the businesses were being asked that. We were the only ones that complied. So Captain Hall and I had many
conversations. And two days after the shooting, we had a Zoom call with Captain Hall and two sergeants,
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25 Sergeant Hephner was there, Sergeant Victor Pearson who was a sergeant too, before Hephner. And there was a
corporal Stanch -- his first name was Chad. He was there, and a couple other people.

That was two days after the shooting. That
conversation -- I wouldn't say it went badly, but it
didn't go great. We had no sleep. We were stuck on
property for almost 24 hours. And then the candlelight
service, so it was bad timing. And then it was kind of
portrayed as because of the kind -- it was the "kind of crowd" and a "type of people" that we have here kept being said, and that kind of rubbed me the wrong way after being cooperative this entire time with them.

We were the victims of a crime that happened by
someone whose parents are both in law enforcement. So
there's nothing we could have done about a 22 year old
stepping on property and randomly shooting someone.

Q When you say "type of people," what do you mean?
A I don't know what they meant by that. It was --
the words were "kind of people," and "type of people." I can guess what they were insinuating, but I -- those were the only words they used. So by the way they were talking and what they were saying, I can insinuate what they
meant.

Q What was your impression what they were getting
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25 at?
A That we have a high Hispanic and Black crowd.

Q Okay. And the shooting, you are referring to the
January 2022 shooting; correct?
A Yes.

Q And the person who was killed is somebody you
know personally?
A Yes.

Q And used to work at your establishment?
A He was a former bouncer for us. He had been
fired six to eight months before the shooting. And at the time of the shooting, he worked at the restaurant,
Espadin, down the street.

Q Are there times in your involvement with law
enforcement that the purpose of the interaction is to
proactively help you run your restaurant to keep things safe, to have a positive outcome and community? Is there anything in your relationship that is proactive where you guys are trying to work together?
A Yes, there's many of them. Like I said, the
conversations with Captain Hall, that's what that was
about. At that time, we had a higher -- at least per the paperwork the City had, we had a higher capacity level
than what they have given us now.

So one of things they suggested was lowering
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25 capacity, getting the stanchions, having the actual metal detectors. They asked us to add a couple more bouncers.

We actually doubled our bouncers instead. That was the
one with the captain and Sergeant Pearson.

They first had asked us, and said the City was
requesting everyone to close at midnight, and he couldn't get anybody else to comply. And he said, "Will you guys do that?" I said, "Of course, if that will help you guys out." The reason for that is they were shorthanded at
that time, and it would be easier for them to get to
everybody instead of everybody letting out at the same
time.

After that ended, I would say a couple of months
later, Sergeant Pearson came again and personally talked to Ryan and I, and said -- asked if we would do last call earlier, so do last call at 1:15 and close at 1:30 so,
again, we were letting out earlier so they could take
their officers from one spot to another without everybody getting out at the same time.

And because, again, they were shorthanded and it
makes their job easier, which we also complied to that
just to help them out, which meant we lost business and lost sales, but their safety is more important.

There's also been, I would say, five of six times
that either our -- when they were bouncers or security -- www.diesassociates.com
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25 because they formerly were bouncers and now we have
security -- or one of the other owners, Ryan, has actually jumped in to protect an officer, because sometimes if a motor officer is the one that shows up first, he is by
himself. If he is trying to break up a fight of four or five people -- it just happened a few weeks ago down the street -- we went to assist him to make sure he was safe until other officers arrived.

Q The items you mentioned a bit ago about things
that the captain recommended, did you implement those
recommendations?
A Every single one.

Q And there's been testimony from previous
witnesses about a parking lot that's adjacent to The Bank down Old Town Street toward the river area?
A Yes.

Q Is that --
A I want to make sure -- I want to make sure we are
talking about the same one. There's two parking lots
behind us. There is one directly -- there's us and a shop and then a parking lot, which is -- that's closer to us.

And then there is one further down which is what is known as Pennypickles' parking lot which is right by the wash and by the bridge.

Q Was there one of those parking lots that was
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25 having a particularly bad problem with urination, drug use, things of that nature?
A Yes. I got a phone call from David, who was
the -- David Pinkerton, who I recently found out was not one of the members of Zip Third. He was with Metro
Resources, which is the management company. He called me July of last year and said the City had contacted him and told him that there was urination, defecation,
prostitution, sex, drugs, everything you can imagine going on in the parking lot directly behind us that Zip Third -- who owns or building, also owns that parking lot and the surrounding buildings of that parking lot -- he said that the City was blaming our patrons for it.

He said he went to bat for us and said it wasn't
our patrons, it's an open parking lot and anyone can park there. I offered, at the time, a suggestion or a
solution. I said if you guys would like us to, we can
have one of our bouncers stay in that parking lot -- at the time, it was two of our bouncers, stay in that parking lot all night long, rope the parking lot off, and let
people exit as they come to their vehicles and tell them past 8:00 o'clock the parking lot is closed down.

And they also swept the parking lot. They
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25 And so we did that every Friday and Saturday for five months.

Q And did that make a difference in the situation
in that parking lot?
A That made a huge difference. And we got thanked
by most of the tenants that are around, Lorimar Winery
being the closest tenant to that parking lot, and thanked us almost on a daily basis for it. She said she felt safe going to her vehicle when she arrived in the morning, and she didn't have to spend an hour cleaning up needles and all kinds of stuff that was in the parking lot.

And other tenants said they felt safe going to
get the mail at night now because there weren't drunk
random people in the parking lot any longer. We still
love the tenants. That's what David and I discussed. The tenants -- so Zip Thirds tenants could still park there.

So what I talked to them about was putting something in their front windshield so that our bouncers would know
that is one of the tenants so that car could stay all
night.

Q You did these things out of pocket at your own
expense?
A Yes. We paid for the bouncers and bought all of
the cones, all of the signs, the ropes to go up. We
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25 Q And, again, that particular parking lot is not
exclusively for The Bank's use. It's open to the general public; correct?
A It's not for The Bank's use at all. We don't --
we don't lease any of that parking lot. It just happens to have the same owner as our building does.

Q So it's available to the general public for
parking?
A Yes. And when the bouncers would talk to the
people coming, it -- 99.9 percent of the people never came to The Bank.

Q Are you aware of an incident involving a shooting
that occurred around the Thanksgiving time of 2021?
A Yes, I'm the one who called it in.

Q So you were working then?
A Yes.

Q Was it nighttime?
A Yes, it was after 1:00 o'clock.

Q And were you out in the front of your
establishment at the time of the shooting?
A I was in the front, but not all the way on the
corner. So I was on the front of our establishment. So
in front of our property, yes, not the corner of the
street.

Q And how did you become aware of the shooting?
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25 A Well, I heard the shot, and my bouncer that was
at our exit actually said he saw the flash and told me
immediately. And turned to me and said, "Did you hear
that?"
Q And so did you call the police?
A Yes, I called 9-1-1.

Q Immediately?
A Immediately.

Q And did you ever go down to the location of the
shooting to investigate or see anything further?
A No, I would never go where there's shots being
fired. I didn't go down there at all. We did stay here
and wait because, normally, the officers would come and ask us questions or whatever, you know, if we had
witnessed it. They would come and talk to us.

So two officers that I don't know the names of
because they were not normal Metro -- part of the Metro force, came and asked -- they had a general description of the people involved. And they were telling me the
description next to my bouncer who happened to be at the entrance of the line all night long.

While they were describing it, my bouncer said,
"I know exactly who you are talking about. I refused
entry to them," and gave an approximate time. I brought the officers upstairs and cued up the time, and they
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25 watched the video and saw that we didn't allow those people entry into the club, and then watched -- they
walked towards Stampede area -- I don't know if it's
north, south, east, or west. They walked down that way.

And so -- and they said, "Okay. They were never
in here," and they left. If they would have been in here, they would have taken footage like they have numerous
other times.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway, I don't mean to interrupt, but it is around 12:00 o'clock. I just want to get a sense of how much
more you have on direct examination or when a good time would be to take a lunch break.

MR. CALLAWAY: Probably we are going to go into
some of the CUP issues, probably another 30 minutes. I
think yesterday I said I had three witnesses, and it looks like I'm going to have two. I haven't made that
determination, but I'm leaning that way, just to give your Honor a heads up from a scheduling standpoint.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Is this a
good time to take a lunch break Mr. Callaway?
MR. CALLAWAY: It is, yes, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

In that case that, let's go off the record.
(The lunch recess was taken.)
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Back on
the record after the break.

Ms. Lane, do you understand you are still under
oath the tell the truth?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Mr. Callaway.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Ms. Lane, do you presently have an employee by
the name of Luis Melendez?
A No.

Q Did you previously have an employee by the name
of Luis Melendez?
A Yes.

Q Did he have a nickname that he went by?
A Yes, he did.

Q And what is that nickname?
A Virus.

Q Do you know how he got that nickname?
A He's an artist. That's his artistic name, like,
Ice-T -- I don't think that's his real name.

Q And what did Mr. Melendez do for you while he was
employed?
A He was a bouncer.
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25 Q Okay. And how long did he work for you?
A I would have to guess. I would have to look at
his records, but I would say about three or four months.

Q And how did his employment with you come to an
end?
A The night of the shooting that happened,
Thanksgiving weekend, by Pennypickles' parking lot, we -- Sergeant Hephner -- I use the officers' first names most of the time, so forgive me if I get slipped up on their first names. Sergeant Hephner had come and informed us
that he had asked Virus if he heard anything, and Virus did not want to cooperate and wouldn't give him his real name, so he was immediately fired that night for not
cooperating with RSO.

Q Are you the one that terminated him?
A Yes.

Q Did you have anybody else that works there that
goes by a nickname or moniker?
A Yes.

Q Who else, if you know?
A Eagle.

Q Eagle?
A Yes.

Q And male or female?
A Male.
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25 Q And do you know how he got his moniker?
A He's Native American. His father gave it to him.

Q I'm going to direct your attention to CaseLines
section Respondent Moore Evidence. Do you have that
available, Ms. Lane?
A Yes.

Q If you could pull up Exhibit K, page D-200 on the
Bates?
A Yes.

Q And do you have that in front of you?
A I do.

Q Do you know what this document is?
A Yes. It's a document that we requested from
California Privacy Records Act. It's a public document
you -- anyone can get for calls for service from RSO.

Q And when you say "calls for service," what do you
mean by that?
A It would be any call that officers have logged
for any particular address.

Q And you made this request?
A Yes.

Q What was the procedure for you to request this
document?
A I -- the way I requested it was a little
different. You go onto their website and simply --
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25 there's, I think, six-ish different things that you can pick that you want records of, and you put the dates that you want, the addresses that you want, and they
electronically send it to you by e-mail.

Q And this is something you did yourself?
A No, Captain Hall did it on my behalf.

Q Okay. Did this come directly to you from the who did it come from? A It came to me from the California Protective
Rights Act, CPRA, from RSO.

Q Okay.

A It's a section of RSO.

Q Okay. And did you let the captain know the
parameters of what you wanted?
A Yes.

Q And what was it that you requested?
A 13 months' worth of calls for service for
multiple addresses.

Q So this -- go ahead.

A Pretty much every operating business similar to
ours in Old Town.

Q Okay.

A And a couple outside of Old Town.

Q Did you have to pay any money for that?
A No.
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25 Q Okay. The first line on that has a date of July
3rd of 2021, and the last line July 16th of 2022. Was
your parameter request those exact dates or was it
different?
A No, it was 7/1/2021 to 7/31/2022.

Q Okay.

A Yeah.

Q And did Captain Hall tell you that he had made
this request?
A Yes.

Q And that the document was delivered directly to
you?
A Correct.

Q Is this an accurate and correct copy of the
document that you received?
A Yes, it is.

Q And you received it by e-mail. Was there a
particular person that you were working with there or that sent it to you that you recall?
A No, it comes through from their -- RSO's website.

It's a department of RSO, and they update you along the way on the progress, and you have to log in to see the
records.

Q You had a chance to review this document?
A Very much so.
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25 Q And, again, this document is the one you received
from the governmental agency?
A Correct.

Q Okay. And in looking at this document, did you
take the time to go through each entry to see what it
pertained to?
A Yes, I did.

Q And what are some of the categories that you see
as far as information that is provided on this document? A The incident -- going across the line, it's
incident date, the day of the week, incident time, call type, call number, officer number, officer name, address, city, the RC time is when it was called in -- I only know this because I asked Captain Hall to explain some of these acronyms -- dispatch time, arrival time, clear time, and depot, what kind of report it is, or if there was a report taken or not, and whether there's a written report or not a written report.

Q And you say this information is available for any
commercial industry or business in the City of Temecula? A It's actually for anyone. You can actually
request it unanimously. It's a public record.

Q And this particular document pertains to what
entity or location?
A The Bank.
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25 Q In going through -- when you testified you went
through this document, did you see anything that looks
like it pertains to The Bank that you believe is not
accurate?
A Many things.

Q Can you -- if you have them, let's go through one
by one. Let's start from top to bottom. What's the first one you believe that's not accurate?
A The incident on 73, the stolen vehicle. We have
no parking lot, so there can't be a vehicle in our parking lot. So that would have been the address closest to
wherever the stolen vehicle was. And I know it was the
lady who told us her vehicle was stolen. She made the
call from outside our facility, which is why our address is on it.

Q Are there any more?
A Yes. 7/4.

Q Of what year?
A 2021. The next one down. That incident was a
older gentleman who was taking video up girls' skirts
inside of the restaurant, and he was asked to leave. And he complained to Officer Bowman that our security or
bouncers at the time were rough with him or something
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25 Q When you say "he came down," is that Officer
Bowman?
A Yes.

Q Are there any more?
A Yes. All of the ones that say "no report," which
I think I grayed out on there, means that a call was made but they showed up and there was no evidence, nothing to substantiate a report being made, which is, if you will see, more than half of calls that are on there.
8/15/2021, we were closed at that time. That was
3:05 in the morning, and I'm the one who called 9-1-1. It was a drunk person outside on the street, acting crazy, and going up to other businesses, and so I called 9-1-1 for that one.

Q Any more?
A 8/1/2021, we were not open.

Q When you say you were not open, this is --
A Let me clarify that. On this -- they normally
use military time. If you will see on this record, it
doesn't differentiate between 4:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m. So instead of using correct military time, it doesn't
actually ever go past 12:00. There's no 13. So if it was 4:57 a.m., we are not open. If it was 4:57 p.m., we would have been open, but I don't know what suspicious
circumstances would be.
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25 Q So you can't say for certain, but you have a
question about the time. But you don't have a conclusion one way or the other?
A Right. And because it says "suspicious
circumstances," I don't know what that qualifies as.

Q Are there any more?
A And that was on my birthday. My birthday is on
8/1, so if it was in the afternoon, we were actually here at that time and nothing happened. So either way, that
one doesn't make sense.

On 9/12/2021, that was a gentleman who -- that
would be the one that I told you about before, about the video tape.

Q Okay.

A The earlier one was an older gentleman that was
not on the property, the one on 7/4. He was not on our
property. He was outside of our property. I think he's
either homeless -- he's around here. The officers know
him quite well. He was outside yelling and screaming, but he was on the public sidewalk, so I called that in to have them come and take care of him.

On 11/27/2021, why our address is on that, I have
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25 that we didn't let those people into the property ever.

So our address should not be on that at all.

One of them is grayed out, but I still put it on
there. 1/11/22, it's a follow-up call. We were actually closed. That was the night of the candlelight service.
1/13/2022, we were closed. So the weapons
violation, we weren't open at that time.
2/14/2022, we also were not open. It's just a
lost property, but we weren't open for that. And then the rest of them all have no reports generated.

Q And these cover a 13-month period; correct?
A Yes.

Q Okay. So this document is highlighted, and you
put the highlights in. Can you tell me what the yellow
highlight means?
A The yellow ones were questionable, and I had to
look up. And I either went through my text messages,
because most of the time I called. I normally call --
unless it's an actual emergency like shots fired down by Pennypickles, I call 9-1-1. If it's something else that is not, you know, quote, unquote, an emergency, I call one of the officers that are down here, because they're
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25 the stuff and what happened.

Q So there are some incidents on here that are
attributed to The Bank where you were the one that made the call?
A Yes, there's a lot of them. And every single one
of these that has a report written, I have requested
Captain Hall to go through the report because he's going to -- if it was near our address and not at our address, he's going to differentiate between the two. I got ahold of him yesterday and he hasn't got them finished yet.

Like the public intoxication on 8/15, that could
have been someone on the corner near us but nothing to do with us -- that one I know had nothing to do with us. I think you get my point. If there's no report taken, he
can't even look it up. If there's a report taken, yet we don't have any info for it, he doesn't know if it happened on our property because of us or it just happened near
The Bank. So he is reading the report to differentiate
between that.

Q Did you put some gray highlights here?
A Yes, all of the gray are no report was generated.

Q Okay. So other than -- so you made those two
changes. Other than that, this document is accurate and complete as to the data as far as what was provided to you by the governmental agency; correct?
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25 A That is correct.

MR. CALLAWAY: Okay. Your Honor, I would move to
admit this document into evidence as Exhibit K.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objection?
Hearing none, Exhibit K is admitted.
(Exhibit K was received in evidence.)
MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q If you can go to Exhibit L, the Bates stamp is
D-201.

A Okay.

Q Can you describe this document for me?
A It's the same document for Stampede. It's the 13
months of calls for service.

Q Did you obtain this in the same way as the other
document that we just admitted?
A Yes, I did.

Q For clarification, did Captain Hall do this one
also or did you do it direct?
A He did all of them --
Q Okay.

A -- on my behalf.

Q And, again, was the request made for the same
time parameter of July 1, 2021 through the end of July
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25 2022?
A Yes.

Q And did you request the captain to obtain this
document for you?
A Yes, I did.

Q And did you receive it in the same manner as the
call for service for The Bank that we were just reviewing? A Yes. They are all on my -- it's -- actually, you
have to log into your own account that's been made. So
when I log into my account, these are all in the same
spot.

Q Okay. And this document pertains to what
location?
A Stampede.

Q Now, you would not have any firsthand knowledge
as to the accuracy of any of the calls, the dates, the
purpose, or anything of that; correct?
A Correct.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Callaway, I want to interrupt here really quick to ask a question. What is Stampede?
THE WITNESS: Are you asking me?
MR. CALLAWAY: Go ahead, Amanda.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Yes. What
is Stampede?
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25 THE WITNESS: It is a bar that is located at the
end, closest to one of the arches in Old Town. It's about three blocks from us.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Callaway.

MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q How many total entries do you see for this
document?
MS. PETRUSIS: Objection, your Honor. I don't
know why it's relevant to talk about the Stampede.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Yeah, I
question the relevance of this, too, Mr. Callaway. We are spending an awful lot of time on it. I think it can be
handled very summarily. The issue of what you are trying to get at here is the number of calls at The Bank being similar to other restaurants in the area. Is that the
point of this?
MR. CALLAWAY: It is, your Honor. Based on
yesterday's testimony, it is completely relevant given
that the testimony of the sergeant, in the way that it was framed, as far as The Bank versus other locations.

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25 think we need to spend a lot of time on this,
Mr. Callaway. We can do this relatively quickly. The
document speaks for itself.

MR CALLAWAY: Right. I was just going to have
the number and move to the next one.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. Go
ahead.

THE WITNESS: I believe I counted 63.

MR. CALLAWAY: Okay. I request that this
document be admitted into evidence as Exhibit L.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objection?
Hearing none, Exhibit L is admitted.
(Exhibit L was received in evidence.)
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q If you could go to Exhibit M, as in Mary?
A Okay.

Q And, again, for the sake of brevity --
MR. CALLAWAY: And, your Honor, if you want me go
into more detail, I can.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Is this the same type of document obtained in the
same manner as the previous two that we just reviewed?
A Yes, it is.

Q And it pertains to what entity?
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25 A Pub & Grub.

Q What is Pub & Grub?
A Restaurant/bar about a block away from us.

Q And can you tell me how many entries that you see
for Pub & Grub?
A It looks like 75.

MR. CALLAWAY: I request that this document be
admitted into evidence as Exhibit M.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Ms. Lane,
is this the same time period as the other documents that we previously admitted?
THE WITNESS: Yes, all of them are for the exact
same time period.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objection for my receiving Exhibit M?
Hearing none, Exhibit M is admitted.
(Exhibit M was received in evidence.)
MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q If you could go to Exhibit N, as in Nancy?
A I'm already counting them again.

Q Again, is this the same document obtained in the
same manner and the same time parameter for the previous sort of calls that we just discussed?
A Yes, it is.
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25 Q And what entity is this service call list for?
A Adelaide.

Q And what is Adelaide?
A It is a newer bar/restaurant that's the next
block down from us.

Q And what count do you have on this one?
A I think it's 48.

Q Okay. Thank you.

A Sorry. I would have had this done if I knew you
needed to know how many.

MR. CALLAWAY: I request that this document be
entered as Exhibit N, as in Nancy.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, Exhibit N is admitted.
(Exhibit N was received in evidence.)
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Could you go to Exhibit 0, please?
A Yes.

Q Again, same document type obtained in the same
manner with the same time parameters as the previous
several call lists we discussed?
A Yes, it is.

Q And what facility or entity does this document
pertain to?
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25 A Bailey's.

Q What is Bailey's?
A A bar/restaurant between Stampede and Adelaide's.

Q And how many calls do you see for Bailey's?
A 27.

MR. CALLAWAY: Request that this document be
entered into evidence as Exhibit 0?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, Exhibit 0 is admitted.
(Exhibit 0 was received in evidence.)
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q And if you could go to Exhibit P, as in Paul?
A Yes.

Q Again, same document obtained in the same manner,
same time parameter as the previous service calls we have discussed?
A Correct.

Q And what entity is this for?
A Blackbird.

Q And what is Blackbird?
A Also a bar/restaurant that's on the opposite side
and a block up from where we are.

Q And how many calls on this document?
A 29.
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25 MR. CALLAWAY: Request, your Honor, that this
document be entered into evidence as Exhibit P.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, Exhibit P is admitted.
(Exhibit P was received in evidence.)
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q I want to take you back to, Ms. Lane, Exhibit K,
which is the service call list for The Bank.

A Uh-huh. Yes.

Q Can you tell me how many calls you see on this
list?
A There are 40.

Q Okay. Thank you. I want to change direction
here and talk about your involvement on behalf of The Bank and communications with the City and the CUP. So that's where I'm going, just so you can understand that.

Again, refresh my memory, when did you take
ownership in the CNC Puma and begin your involvement with The Bank?
A February 27, 2020.

Q And is there somebody on behalf of The Bank or
CNC Puma that you dealt with primarily in order to obtain an interest or get involved with CNC Puma and The Bank? A Mostly Craig Puma, but we dealt with Craig and
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25 Christy Puma.

Q Do you know if it's C-H or K?
A C-H.

Q And Y at the end?
A Yes.

Q As of February 27, 2020, did you have an
understanding, then, as to the operating hours of The Bank as far as what it was allowed to do?
A Yes, it was 8:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. is what we
were told.

Q Before February 27, 2020, had you ever been a
patron at The Bank?
A Many times. I've lived here 21 years.

Q And did you ever, during that time, visit
The Bank beyond 10:00 p.m.?
A Many times.

Q And beyond 11:00 p.m.?
A Many times.

Q Beyond midnight?
A All the way up till 2:00 o'clock, many times.

Q Okay. How quickly after February 27, 2020, did
you begin servicing the public at The Bank?
A The next day.

Q Looks like you came in right before COVID
started?
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25 A Two and a half weeks before COVID.

Q And what impact did that have within two and half
weeks with respect to being open to the public?
A We had to close two and a half weeks after
purchasing it, so it was -- devastating, I guess is a
pretty good word. But it was either -- everything was
closed, so it was wait it out and do the best we could, or you know, fold. There really wasn't much option.

Q And at some point in time you were able to get
back to being open to the public and operating in a
somewhat normal manner?
A Yes. For a period of time, and then there was
another shut down, so we had to shut down again and then open again. Like everyone else, all of 2020 was kind of a blur because it was -- a lot of different rules changing constantly.

Q During that brief time that you were open between
shut downs, what type of hours did you operate?
A In the beginning, we kept much shorter hours just
because the COVID situation was unique. So, A, we had to put a lot of employees on unemployment, and they didn't want to come off unemployment to work because they were making more on unemployment, so it was us actually doing a lot of the work.

We were cooking. We had a basic staff of about
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25 five people at one point. So we shortened our hours
significantly. We were probably only open, I'd say, 12:00 to 6:00 or 7:00. When it was take-out only, we were open even shorter than that. So it just depended on what point in 2020 we are talking about.

The rules changed almost daily, it seemed like,
for some of the stuff. So it was a lot of reacting to
whatever the governor was putting out that day. We
listened every day at noon to see what the new ordinances were.

Q At some point in time, were all restrictions
taken off of your ability to operate The Bank with respect to COVID -- as far as COVID restrictions?
A I don't know if all restrictions were taken off.
2020, towards the end of 2020, I think 90-some percent of it was taken off.

Q As of the end of 2020, had you ever operated up
until 2:00 a.m. after the initial COVID shut down?
A At the very end of 2020 is when we were open
until 2:00 a.m.

Q And as of the end of 2021, was it your
understanding that you were permitted by the City of
Temecula to be open up till 2:00 a.m.?
A Yes.

Q At some point in time, did you learn that the
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25 City said that you could not stay open till 2:00 a.m.? A Yes, in -- I think it was February or March of
2021. We were given a warning citation for being open,
which is when I contacted -- actually, let me stop. We
were given a warning. Tom didn't have a lot of info on
what I was asking --
Q Let me stop you there. Who is Tom?
A Tom Cole.

Q Go ahead.

A So because he's the one who wrote the citations,
I went to City Hall and requested all of the CUPS on the address, and they supplied me with the 2007 and 2012 CUP.

And I then called Craig, and that's when Craig informed me of the 2008 CUP and what the date was. That is when I
went back to City Hall and requested the 2008 CUP, and
that's when they told me they did not have a copy of it.

Q When you refer to Craig, is that Craig Puma?
A Yes, sir.

Q When you went to City Hall and you were informed
they did not have the 2008 CUP, had you gotten a copy of it from anybody?
A No.

Q You were just told by Craig Puma that it existed?
A Correct.

Q Do you remember who you talked with or met with
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25 or communicated with at City Hall when you went back and asked them for the 2008 minor modification?
A I talked to Jaime.

Q Do you know Jaime's last name?
A It starts with a C -- Cardenas? I don't know.

I'm guessing. I worked with him previously on a project for a different place that I ran.

Q And what was it Mr. Cardenas told you?
A That they didn't have the 2008 CUP, and he
referred me to Section 28 of the 2012 CUP, because I told him what the citation was for. He highlighted that part and said, "You can show them this. It shows you could be open until 2:00 a.m."
Q So you're referring to Section 28 of what
document that said you could be open?
A Of the 2012 CUP.

Q When you got the notice of violation from the
City, what was your reaction?
A Shocked, I mean, with confusion, I guess.

Q At some point in time, were you able to get a
copy of the 2008 CUP or minor modification?
A Yes. I called Craig Puma and discussed with him
what was going on, and he made -- he said, "I'll make a phone call to ABC, because they have to keep it on record for hours of selling alcohol. Anytime there's a change in www.di esassociates.com
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25 hours in selling alcohol, ABC is to be notified." He contacted ABC that runs the Riverside office, and she then e-mailed Craig the copy of the 2008 CUP.

Q And did Craig subsequently provide it to you?
A Yes. Craig e-mailed it to me, and he also
e-mailed it to Luke Watson, and I took a physical copy to City Hall.

Q I want to direct your attention to -- go back to
the CaseLines exhibits again, under Respondent Moore
Evidence, and look at Exhibit G.

A Okay.

Q Do you have that document?
A Yes, I do.

Q Can you describe the document for me?
A It's an e-mail chain between Brad Landon, myself,
and then one of the fire marshals, and then a slew of
other people got added on there that all work at the City.

Q And is that an e-mail that you generated?
A I generated the first part of the e-mail.

Q Okay. The one dated Thursday, March 11, 2021, at
5:26 p.m.?
A Yes.

Q Is that e-mail address next to your name, the
e-mail address you were using at the time?
A Yes.
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25 Q And the e-mail address for Brad Landon, do you
recognize that to be the accurate address for him as of that time?
A Yes, it is.

Q Was this e-mail ever returned as undelivered or
undeliverable to you?
A No, it was not.

Q Is the e-mail a true and accurate copy of the
e-mail that you recall sending Mr. Landon at that time? A Yes.

Q Was there an attachment to that e-mail?
A Yeah, it was a 2012 CUP.

Q And there is an additional e-mail below that
dated Saturday, September 25, 2021, at 11:59 p.m.;
correct?
A Yes. I forwarded that to Elsa. She is one of
the fire marshals. She requested to see it.

Q Okay. How did it come about that Elsa had
requested to see it from you?
A Well, they were doing -- the City has been having
them do fire inspections every Friday and Saturday night for almost two years now. At least once a night, normally twice a night, they go to 12 different facilities and
count capacity and check noise levels. And on one of her times that she was here, she was discussing with me and www.di esassociates.com
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25 she said she was going to help get to the bottom of it, and for me to forward what I had to her.

Q And is that a true and accurate copy of the
e-mail you sent to Ms. Wigle on September 25, 2021, at
11:59 p.m.?
A Yes, it is.

Q And is that e-mail next to your name an accurate
e-mail that you had at that time?
A Yes, it is.

Q And the e-mail for Ms. Wigle, do you recognize
that to be an accurate e-mail that you used for her at
that time?
A Yes.

Q Did this e-mail ever come back to you as
undelivered or undeliverable?
A No.

Q And if you go down, there is a third e-mail in
there dated Tuesday, September 28, 2021, at 5:56 p.m., do you see that?
A Yes.

Q And can you describe that document for me?
A That was her responding to me on what she had
found. She went through what she had told me what she was going to do, and went through our files to get all of our CUP permits and minor modifications. And the only ones
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25 she was able to find was the ones listed there, the
PA '07, and the PA '09, and PA '12.

Q No reference to the PA '08?
A No.

Q Let me identify it in a little more
particularity. No reference there to the CUP for
PA 08-0236; correct?
A Right.

Q And that e-mail came from Ms. Wigle; correct?
A Correct.

Q Do you recognize that e-mail as being one
associated with Ms. Wigle as of that time?
A Yes.

Q Was the substance of the e-mail something that
you had expected given that you had corresponded to her by e-mail three days earlier?
A Yes. I mean, I didn't expect her to find
anything different than what I was already told. I was
hopeful she would find it.

Q And your address is on the to, T-0, line;
correct?
A Yes.

Q And can you tell me who else's names are on
there? And real quickly, just by name, and who they are, and who they're affiliated with, if you know?
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25 A Do you want me to do all of their names?
Q You know, like the first one, Brian Clemmons, do
you know who he is, if so, who?
A Okay. So Brian Clemmons, I do not know who he
is. Brandon -- I don't know how to pronounce his last
name -- I know he worked for the City. He actually came to a meeting that we had -- all of the businesses had
during COVID to see how he could support everyone. That's how I knew he worked for the City.

Edgar Gonzalez, I don't know his role at the City
or who he is. I'm sorry. I do know who Edgar is, if it's the right last name. He was one of the fire marshals.

He's no longer at the City. Jesse LeRoux, I don't know
who that is. Randy Wood also worked for the City. I
don't know in what capacity at that time. I think he's
with the planning department, but I'm not sure.

Q And is that e-mail a true and accurate copy of
the e-mail that you received from Ms. Wigle as of that
time of September 28, 2021, at 5:56 p.m.?
A Yes.

Q The next e-mail down, we are down to -- actually,
give me a quick second here. So we are still on Bates
stamp D-186. So it looks like there was an e-mail from
you on Wednesday, September 29, 2021, at 2:44 p.m. Do you see that?
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25 A Yes.

Q And was that e-mail initiated from your
computer -- strike that. Was that initiated from your
e-mail that is next to your name?
A Yes.

Q And your directing it to Elsa Wigle; is that
correct?
A Yes.

Q And that e-mail from Elsa Wigle is the one you
believe is associated with her as of that date of
September 29, 2021?
A Yes.

Q And there are a number or people on the CC that
match up above. Were you simply including everybody that she had included in her previous e-mail?
A Yes. I just put "reply all," so it went to the
same people.

Q And you recognize this e-mail?
A Yes.

Q And does it appear to be a true and accurate copy
of the e-mail that you sent as of that date and time?
A Yes.

Q Did it come back as undelivered or undeliverable
in any manner?
A No.
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25 Q In looking at this, you say -- or it says, "What
about the prior modification that was approved? I'll
forward it again." What prompted you, if you recall, to send this e-mail?
A Because the 2008 was, again, not listed on there,
so I had already sent it to the City, hand -delivered a copy to them, and she still wasn't able to find it in
September, so I sent it another time.

Q Did anybody from the City that is on this e-mail
reply to you in any manner to either your e-mail of
September 29 -- actually, strike that. Did anybody on
this e-mail thread, other than Elsa Wigle, reply to your e-mail of September 29th?
A No.

MR. CALLAWAY: Your Honor, I move to enter this
document into evidence as Exhibit G.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, Exhibit G is admitted.
(Exhibit G was received in evidence.)
MR. CALLAWAY: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q So going back after reviewing this document in
the late September 2021 time, can you tell me kind of what was happening with respect to the CUP, the 2008 and the www.di esassociates.com

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25 hours? Where did you feel things were at?
A In limbo. We were still trying to figure out how
to get the 2012 fixed. There were many errors on the 2012 that were made by the City, and we simply just wanted it corrected. I mean, it was, obviously, an honest mistake of copying the wrong one.

Because from what Jaime told me, they went from
one kind of program to another, and when they changed
programs, they lost a bunch of documents. So, okay. I
don't know when that was. And I don't work for the City.

So my whole purpose was just get everything on here fixed.

Q If Jaime told you that, were you of the opinion
that the 2008 minor modification to the CUP, that the
City didn't have possession of it?
A Yes.

Q As of that time, were you being fined by the City
for violating hours and violating hours for service of
alcohol?
A No, we were being fined for violating hours, not
service of alcohol.

Q Okay. Did you repay any of those fines?
A We paid some of those fines. We paid a total of
$15,400.00; although, $500.00 of that was actually
Pub & Grub's fines that were accidentally mailed to us.

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25 was Pub & Grub's citation, and I paid it. The City cashed the check, and I don't know if they credited us or
Pub & Grub for that. But $500.00 of that was actually
Pub & Grub's fines.

Q And you have continued to receive fines since
September of 2021, again, for hours -related violations per the City; correct?
A Correct.

Q Do you have an approximation of how much the
unpaid fines have totaled to this date?
A Well over $100,000.00.

Q Why did you pay some of the fines and not others?
A In the beginning, I mean, we are new business
owners. I've never had an issue with City Hall before,
because I worked with Jaime on event projects for another business I was involved in, and I had a great relationship with him personally doing that.

So at the time it was -- we didn't want to make
an enemy of them. It's a citation, just like I would pay a ticket and then have to go fight it in court, and I
figured once they figure it out, they will refund us the money and, you know, everything will be fine.

Once Luke Watson stopped returning phone calls
and e-mails, everybody at the City stopped returning
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25 Q And you never paid fines from the City for hours
violations because you thought they were correct that you weren't able to stay open until 2:00; would that be
correct?
A That is correct.

Q To this date have you ever -- to this date, do
you still feel that you and the City are on opposite sides of the issue of how late The Bank can stay open hours
wise?
A Yes.

MR. CALLAWAY: Your Honor, no further questions
at this time.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Just one second.

Cross-examination, Ms. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So, Ms. Lane, you testified earlier that you took
ownership on February 27, 2020. Do I have that correct? A Yes.

Q So what does that mean that you took ownership?
Can you describe that a little bit more, please?
A Well, we became partners with Craig and Christy,
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25 taking over the operations of The Bank restaurant.

Q So just to be clear, this is a corporation, so
are you shareholders or partners?
A We are technically shareholders.

Q Okay. How many other shareholders are in CNC
Puma Corporation as of right now?
A Four total, including myself.

Q And who are those individuals?
A Myself, Ryan Parent, Craig Puma, and Christy
Puma.

Q So you began taking over the day-to-day
management of the restaurant on February 27, 2020?
A 28th.

Q I'm sorry. February 28th. Okay. In the past
year and a half, has The Bank always had licensed security guards working at The Bank?
A No, it was not required.

Q And even today, not all of the security guards
wear the clothing that's required by the City's
ordinances; is that right?
A That is not correct.

MR. CALLAWAY: Objection, your Honor. Lacks
foundation. Vague and ambiguous.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Overruled.

You can answer the question, Ms. Lane.
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25 THE WITNESS: That is not correct. All of the
security guards do wear the proper clothing and
identification.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So when did they start doing that?
A July 31st is when they had to start wearing all
of it.

Q So it's your testimony --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Of this
year?
THE WITNESS: Yes.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So it's your testimony that since July 31st,
every time a security guard has worked at The Bank, that person has worn the clothing that's required by the City ordinance?
A Every security guard, yes.

Q At the time of the January 2022 shooting, you
didn't have someone at the restaurant use a metal
detector, wand, or patting down incoming patrons; isn't that right?
A At 9:30 at night? No, we did not have someone
wanding on a Sunday night.

Q So do you still think that there was nothing the
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25 restaurant could have done to prevent a 22 year old from coming onto the property with a gun?
MR. CALLAWAY: Objection. Argumentative.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Overruled.

Go ahead. You can answer.

THE WITNESS: I think it's a very broad
statement. I think there's always something someone can do differently in any situation.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So you do believe that The Bank could have done
something to prevent that 22 year old from coming onto the property with a gun?
A No.

Q Could you have had a security guard use a metal
detector wand?
A We could have. That would not be normal practice
for a Sunday for any business. We had diners. We don't
normally wand our diners.

Q Ms. Lane, there's no pending question.

The individual who went by the name Virus that
was previously employed at The Bank, he was on probation for a weapons violation, wasn't he?
A That's not what I was told by the officer.

Q And what I'm asking is if you know that?
A No, not to my knowledge.
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25 Q Did you ever do a criminal background check on
Virus?
A No, that was also not something that is required.

Q It wasn't required to do a criminal background
check on security guards?
A On bouncers, no, it is not.

Q So it was the case, then, that your bouncers had
criminal histories?
A No.

Q None of them had been previously convicted as
felons?
A I wouldn't know the answer to that, I didn't do a
criminal background check on them.

Q I believe you testified earlier that the 2012
conditions of approval say that The Bank could be open
until 2:00 a.m., did I have that right? Is that your
belief?
A Yes, that's what Jaime told me.

Q Well, let's go to those conditions of approval.

So I would like you to take a look at City's Exhibit 9.

A Okay.

Q So the conditions of approval start at page 45.

Can you tell me where in the conditions of approval it
says that The Bank can stay open until 2:00 a.m.?
A The one that Jaime highlighted for me and told me
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25 to show anyone who questioned it is 28-A.

Q So is it your believe that 28-A permits The Bank
to stay open until 2:00 a.m.?
A At the time the City official was telling me
that, that's what that said.

Q Okay. But I'm asking you right now if you
believe that Condition 28-A gives The Bank the authority to stay open until 2:00 a.m.?
A Right now do I think that? No, now that I've
done a ton of research and figured out what's going on.

Q Okay. So is it your belief now that the
conditions of approval from 2012 do not give The Bank the authority to stay open until 2:00 a.m.?
A It is my belief that the 2012 conditions of a
approval are grossly incorrect and copied and pasted from the 2007, and I could point that out in about eight
different places.

Q So I don't think I got an answer to my question.

I asked you a different question. Do you believe that the 2012 conditions of approval give The Bank authority to
stay open until 2:00 a.m.?
MR. CALLAWAY: Objection. Asked and answered.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Overruled.

THE WITNESS: The 2012, as it stands alone, the
way it's written, no.
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25 BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Thank you. Now, when you testified about not
receiving the 2008 conditions of approval, could it have been that when you were requesting the CUP, it's because you were given the original CUP from 2007 and then the
current conditions of approval from 2012?
MR. CALLAWAY: Objection, your Honor. Multiple
hypotheticals. Calls for speculation.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm going
to sustain that. I think that question is a little bit
confusing, and I think you are asking to another step
ahead. What's the provider in that one, Ms. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: Okay.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q So why haven't you complied with the permitted
operating hours from the 2012 conditions of approval?
A I've complied with the operating hours that
The Bank has already been given in 2008, as long as -- I mean, as well as the Type 47 license that was done in
2007, which is also wrong, and on the 2012.

Q Have you ever submitted a minor modification
application to the City?
A No.

MR. CALLAWAY: Objection. Vague and ambiguous.

For what purpose?
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25 MS. PETRUSIS: Well, regarding the purpose that
we are here today.

MR. CALLAWAY: Well --
MS. PETRUSIS: I'll ask a different question
then.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Regarding the 2012 conditions of approval that
are regarding the 2007 CUP, have you ever submitted a
minor modification application to the City of Temecula? A There would be no reason to.

Q So is that no?
A No, there would be no reason to.

Q You testified earlier that you have paid at least
$15,000.00 in response to the citations and civil
penalties; is that correct?
A $15,400.00 to be exact, and $500.00 being
Pub & Grub's.

Q And you have never submitted a request to appeal
a citation or a civil penalty letter that was issued for violations at The Bank; isn't that right?
A I have requested an appeal to this entire thing.

So to one actual citation letter, no, if that's what you are asking.

Q What was the request to appeal this entire thing
that you just mentioned?
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25 A I have talked to Luke Watson and sent him
e-mails. I went to City Hall at least 30 times to meet
with him.

Q You went to City Hall 30 times?
A Yes. And I was there for hours.

Q Do you believe that complying with the hours of
operation set forth in the 2012 condition of approval will hurt The Bank's business?
A I'm sorry. Can you say that one more time?
Q Do you believe that complying with the conditions
of approval from 2012 -- the 2012 conditions of approval will hurt the business -- The Bank's business?
A If I went off the 2012 conditions of approval, it
would definitely hurt The Bank's business because we would have a 41 liquor license.

Q Wait. I'm confused. The 2012 condition of
approval don't take you back to a Type 41 liquor license.

A It actually does. On No. 23, it says the
applicant currently has a Type 41.

Q So is it your position that paying those fines
and ignoring the citations and civil penalties that are issued every week is cheaper than complying with the hours requirement?
A It's not a matter or what's cheaper, it's a
matter of there was a mistake made that needs to be
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25 rectified.

Q So was your plan to continue to violate those
hours and receive those citations and civil penalties?
A My plan was to have the City rectify the mistakes
that were made.

Q Did you ever speak to Norman Solomon about the
citations and civil penalties received by CNC Puma
Corporation?
A Yes, I did.

Q And when did you speak to him about that?
A I do not recall.

Q Can you give us your best estimate?
A Him, personally, I honestly couldn't tell you.

There's nine people in Zip Third. So him, personally, in July, I think, but I'm not 100 percent sure.

Q July of which year?
A This year.

Q Was that the first time that you spoke to anyone
at Zip Third Investments about the citations and civil
penalties?
A No. Again, I don't want to say no because I
don't actually know the answer to that. We have Zip Third and we have Metro Resources, so there's 11 people total that I deal with. I'm not exactly sure which person at
which time it was discussed with.
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25 Q In 2021, did you ever speak to anyone at
Zip Third Investments or Metro Resources about the civil penalties or the citations?
A Yes.

Q And do you remember who you spoke to?
A David Pinkerton.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: And I'm
sorry, Ms. Petrusis. I apologize. Could you get
clarification as to who Metro Resources is?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes. I'm going to ask Ms. Lane
that.

BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q What is Metro Resources?
A They're the management company for the property
owner.

Q And by property owner, are you referring to Zip
Third Investments?
A Yes.

Q And what is Mr. Pinkerton's role?
A I actually don't know the answer to that
question. Up until recently, I actually thought he worked for Zip Third.

Q Okay. So is it your understanding that he either
works for Zip Third or Metro Resources?
A I just found out that from the court documents
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25 that were filed that he works for Metro Resources.

Q When you spoke to him in 2021 about the citations
and civil penalties, what was your understanding of what his role was?
A I thought he was one of the owners of the
property.

Q Do you remember when in 2021 that you had this
conversation with Mr. Pinkerton?
A It was around July when he called me about the
City complaint about the back parking lot.

Q Okay. So around July 2021, you had a
conversation with Mr. Pinkerton, and was it during that conversation that you discussed the citations and civil penalties that were issued to The Bank?
A I don't know if it was in as much detail as the
citations and civil penalties, but the overall gist of
what was going on, yes.

Q And tell me everything that you remember about
that conversation, like -- for example, what did he say in response?
A The conversation started with him calling, saying
the City complained about the back parking lot and it was our customers that were causing the problems, and that he went to bat for us with the City saying it was a public parking lot and it wasn't necessarily our customers. And www.diaOinn-esassociates.com
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25 that's when we got into the -- we must have had a
conversation before that because he asked if the City was still harassing us, and I said yes.

And then it was -- it was a general conversation
of the CUP issues hasn't been resolved. We are still
fighting it out, I guess, for lack of a better word. I
don't know the exact conversation. That was a long time ..•
Q So was Mr. Pinkerton your contact person for
Zip Third Investments? Did you go through the property
manager then?
A Two contact people I had at the time was
David Pinkerton and Shawn Pinkerton.

Q So if you wanted to contact the landlord, the
property owner, how would you do that?
A At the time I would have called David, because I
thought he was one of the property owners.

Q Did he ever mention to you about what Zip Third
was going to do about the violations of the CUP, if at
all?
A No.

Q After that July 2021 conversation, did you talk
to anyone else at either Metro Resources or Zip Third
Investments about the violations of the CUP?
A After which date? I'm sorry.
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25 Q The July 2021 conversation.

A I talked to Shawn Pinkerton, but that was about
the parking lot. I don't -- I talked to Norm and Rick and someone else in this year. I also talked to -- David
Pinkerton was there the day after the shooting. He
actually drove down here and we talked on our patio that day. And the rest of the conversations, I think, were
around June or July of this year. And then I had multiple conversations between June and July and mid August-ish
with Norm and Rick -- Norman.

Q So do you believe that David Pinkerton knew about
the citations and civil penalties that were issued for
violations of the CUP?
A Again, I don't differentiate between the two. I
don't think I would have used that terminology. That we were being cited, yes.

Q Okay. Fair enough. So let me ask it in a
different way. I apologize. So do you believe that
David Pinkerton knew about the citations that were issued to CNC Puma Corporation for violations of the CUP?
A There were some. How many -- it's not like I
went over it. I don't think it was that detailed.

Q And you received a copy of the planning
director's notification of his recommendation that the CUP be revoked dated May 19, 2022; is that right?
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25 A
Yes.

Q
Okay. Switching
gears a little bit.

I'd like
you to
look at City's Exhibit
15 which is page
273. Have
you ever
seen this flyer
before?
A
I have.

Q
And what is this
flyer advertising?
A
An equality -- I
don't know how to --
party, I
guess
is the best way to
put it.

Q
Okay. And when
is this party advertised
to
occur?
A
Here, it says, "Doors
open at 9:00,
show starts
at 10:00."
Q
I'm sorry. What
did you just say?
A
I said I didn't
make the flyer, so I
had to look
at it to see.

Q And did this event happen on July 6th?
A Yes.

Q And did it start at or around 10:00 p.m.?
A Yes, at or around. I don't know exactly what
time it started.

Q And the party, what did that entail, exactly?
A It was -- I have never actually been to a drag
show, so I don't have a lot of reference on this. They
were drag people that were here on property that lip sync.

I don't know if this is when they lip synced or just
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25 walked around. There was a couple, they -- one person at a time would lip sync to a song.

Q And would they also dance?
A Yes, I mean, as much as you can dance in a
three -foot -wide space, I guess.

Q How often were there these -- I think you
mentioned drag show, these types of drag show events at The Bank?
A We had three total -- two or three total. And we
haven't had them since.

Q And how long have you had -- or I should start
off by asking, have you had a live DJ at the restaurant? A I'm confused. A live DJ?
Q Okay. Then, a DJ. Have you had a DJ at
The Bank?
A Yes, we had a live DJ at The Bank.

Q And is that on a regular basis? Like, how often
do you have a DJ at The Bank?
A Pretty much every weekend.

Q And for how long?
A Since the end of 2020.

Q And would the DJ typically perform after
10:00 p.m.?
A Starts or continue performing?
Q Okay. Let's start with what time the DJ
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A It -- it depended on the day. Anywhere from 2:00
in the afternoon to 9:00 at night.

Q So it's sometimes that the DJ would start at
9:00 at night?
A Yes.

Q And how late would the DJ perform?
A Until 1:00 a.m. The latest was 1:00 a.m.,
sometimes it's until 10:00 p.m. It depends on the day.

MS. PETRUSIS: Can I have just a moment, your
Honor, to look at my notes?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Sure.

MS. PETRUSIS: I don't have any further
questions.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Did you
want to deal with Exhibit 15 or no?
MS. PETRUSIS: Okay. No, I don't think I need to
enter it into evidence.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

In that case, cross-examination, Ms. Martyn?
MS. MARTYN: In this case, your Honor,
Mr. Edwards will be conducting the cross-examination.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Mr. Edwards?
MR. EDWARDS: Thank you, your Honor.
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25 CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. EDWARDS:

Q Ms. Lane?
A Yes.

Q I recognize you have been testifying for quite a
while. Are you prepared now to give me your most accurate answers this time of day or do you need a break?
A I'm good.

Q I recognize I have no power to give you a break,
I just wanted to see if you did.

A No, thank you. I appreciate it.

Q Now, you said there were nine people in Zip
Third. Remember, you're under oath. I'm not talking
about what you estimate or what you think. Do you have
any idea whether there are nine people in Zip Third is
really true?
A That's what Norman told me on a phone call and in
the last few weeks.

Q He told you there were nine people? Do you know
if he was referring to the number of owners or employees? A I don't know the answer to that. It was -- I was
actually making a joke about it. I was asking who was on the phone call and then I said, "Sorry, it's been
different people all the time. How many people do you
guys have?" And he said, "Nine." So I don't know if he
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25 meant owners or total employees. I don't know the answer to that.

Q Did he seem like he was joking?
A Yes.

Q All right. So you didn't think he was serious
when he said there were nine people?
A I have no idea. We've had a pretty good
relationship so, I mean, it's not -- I didn't take note of it and write it down and figure out how much percentage everybody has. It was a passing comment.

Q Okay. I understand, now, you had a conversation
with David Pinkerton, and was this conversation --
referring to the conversation where he called you about the parking lot. Am I clear with you with what I'm
talking about now, the parking lot conversation?
A Yes.

Q Which is then approximately late June, early
July 2021; am I correct?
A Correct.

Q Okay. And he called and told you, "I got a call
from the place about the parking lot." Correct?
A No, he told me the City called him.

Q Okay. So the City called him?
A Correct.

Q Now, shortly after that, within the week, did he
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25 tell you that he was going to have a camera system
installed in the parking lot?
A No, there was already a camera system in the
parking lot. He did ask me about the lights in the
parking lot, and I told him that they -- that they weren't bright enough. And he told me, which I already knew, but he reiterated that they had a security private patrol
officer -- security that drove around, which I knew
because I had seen them before.

Q Did he tell you they are having a new camera
system installed which had approximately 14 cameras, a
loud speaker, and a monitor who could speak to people in the parking lot if they were out of line?
A No, I think that was already installed at that
time.

Q You think it was installed before he called you?
A Yes, because I remember being in that parking lot
and having someone yell at me over the thing.

Q Okay. Now, I recognize that your testimony --
you said that call that you had with him was a long time ago, and you said you were being hassled by the City. Am I correct you told him that?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Now, do you know whether it was this
conversation or some other conversation that you --
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Sorry.

Mr. Edwards, you broke up there for a second. Can you
repeat your question?
MR. EDWARDS: Yes, your Honor, of course.

BY MR. EDWARDS:

Q Do you know, Ms. Lane, whether it was this
conversation or some other conversation where you said to him, "I've gotten some citations or official communication from the City"?
A I know we had it in that conversation. I don't
know if we had it in a previous conversation as well.

Q Okay. As best as you can tell me, you said
before, it wasn't detailed. What is your best
recollection of what you said? And let me tell you what I'm trying to get at. You just mentioned, "I'm getting
hassled," or did you say, "I have gotten a citation"? And if you don't know, say you don't know. But be as precise as you can.

A I actually -- I would actually be guessing if I
said -- I knew I told him we were being hassled. I
couldn't honestly say if I said exactly if there was
citations, not citations, what it was about. Like I said, it was mostly about the parking lot and the City -- how he felt the City was portraying us and was going along with how I was saying the City was acting toward us.
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25 Q Okay. Now, did you speak -- and, again, if you
don't know, just tell me you don't know. This is not a
memory test. I want to get your most accurate testimony.

Do you know whether you received a phone call from
Mr. Pinkerton in approximately March 2022, in which he
said, "I have received some citations. What's going on?" A I do not recall.

Q Okay. Do you ever recall receiving a call from
him in, let's say, the spring of 2022 -- and, again, I
don't want to confine this just to citations. He's gotten something from the City indicating you're getting notices, fines, citations, penalty letters, anything like that, and in March of 2022, did you get a call where he asked you to explain what was going on?
A I don't recall having -- I don't recall having a
phone call from him at all about that. It could have
happened, but I don't remember.

Q Okay. What about Shawn Pinkerton? Any call from
him on that subject about the time I was asking, March
2022?
A Not that I recall.

Q Okay. Now, you said you spoke to Norm Solomon
this year; correct?
A Yes.

Q And you thought it was June or July of this year;
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25 am I right?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Now, in that call, can you recall the
substance of the call?
A I don't know everything, but we did go over the
citations, the CUPS, what was going with on with it. We also went over the bankruptcy case.

Q And was this the first call you had with him on
these topics?
A I think so.

Q Okay. Now, in this -- let me back up a little
bit. You are the CEO of Puma Corporation; correct?
A CNC Puma, yes.

Q Okay. Yes. And you have been so since
February 27, 2020?
A Correct.

Q All right. And if I were to say -- correct me if
I'm wrong. If I were to say you run The Bank restaurant, the buck stops with you, is that correct?
A For the most part, yes.

Q Okay. Does that mean that you consult with
others in certain situations?
A Yes. And there's certain aspects that one of the
other four deals with that I don't deal with.

Q But what?
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25 A I have a lot less to deal with. They deal with
more of it than I do.

Q Deal with more of what?
A Like, the bankruptcy, for instance. Ryan deals
with more of the bankruptcy than I deal with.

Q And you and Ryan are co -owners; am I correct?
A Me, Ryan, Christy, and Craig.

Q Okay. You own 40 percent?
A Yes.

Q And Ryan owns 40 percent?
A Correct.

Q What is Ryan's last name?
A Parent.

Q Okay. Now, is it accurate to say that,
generally, you have been at The Bank Thursday through
Sunday nights since February 27, 2020?
A Not all Sundays, but Thursday through Saturday, I
would say, probably, 80-plus percent, yes.

Q Okay. Now, were you there last Thursday?
A I don't know. I don't think so.

Q Okay. Fair enough.

A I don't even know yesterday. No, I don't know if
I was here last Thursday.

Q How about last Friday?
A Yes.
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25 Q What time did The Bank close that night?
A 1:50 a.m.

Q Okay. And on the last Saturday night, did it
close about the same time?
A Yes.

Q Now, I understand there have been some COVID
closures, and I understand there's been a shooting closure for a memorial, and I understand there was a period when the police asked you to close a little earlier so all of the bars wouldn't flood the street at the same time; am I correct so far?
A Yes.

Q Other than those occasions, were your closing
times last Friday and last Saturday typical for the period of your ownership?
A Yes, except for the other one when the City,
through the Sheriff's Department, asked for everyone to close early.

Q Which was for --
A That would be the only other big one. It was for
months.

Q For months?
A Yes.

Q How long are we talking about?
A I think that one was two or three months.
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25 Q And during that period of time, let's say, Friday
and Saturday, since those are easier for you to recall, what time did The Bank close?
A Midnight.

Q Midnight. Okay. Now, this is not an accusation.

I'm just trying to get a fact. Okay. You were doing this knowing that the 2012 CUP was inconsistent with your
closing hours; am I correct?
A Kind of. If I can explain my answer? The 2012
CUP is inconsistent with the liquor license, and it's
inconsistent with the hours and it's inconsistent with the patio, because there's also a 2009 CUP which hasn't been found with anybody except ABC. So since we have a 47 and not a 41 license, which is the 2012, my -- again, I don't work at the City. It's either the City made a mistake and didn't correctly do the 2012, or, as they claimed on their court filings, collectively, they make up the CUP.

So if you say collectively they make up the CUP,
that means the 7, 8, 9, 10, and 12 all go together and all of those things are correct.

Q Okay. I understand your answer. Thank you. Now
I'm going to lead you a little bit, so if I say something inaccurate, correct me; okay?
A Okay.

Q In part I'm leading you because I'm going to try
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25 my darnedest to make sure we end this hearing today.

A Thank you.

Q Okay. Now, I understand -- again, here's where
I'm leading you, so correct me if I'm wrong. I understand that you operate during those hours, the hours that of
1:50 a.m. or 2:00 a.m. or whatever it is on Friday and
Saturday, in part, because you believe the restaurant
would become insolvent quickly if you did not; correct? It wouldn't be able to pay its bills?
A I don't know if I can answer that with a yes or
no. If -- I mean, if we went back in time. If we are
going off 2012, apparently, we can go back in time to
meetings that happened in 2007. But if we went back in
time and COVID never happened and we were able to continue this whole time, then the answer would probably be
different.

With that, the gas prices going up, not being
able to hire people, minimum wage going up, all of our
products going up -- the entire reason we started doing the later nighttime was to keep the business going. I
mean -- that's -- that was at the time we started, it was the only thing we could come up with to continue it.

Q And as my mother used to say, "If wishes were
horses, beggars would ride." Where am I going with that? And do you believe that if you changed your hours to
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25 comply with the 2012 CUP as it's written, without
reference to anything else, you are closing at 10:00 or 11:00 or whatever, would you -- would The Bank become
insolvent within 30 days or so?
A Yes.

Q And that's one of the reasons you continue to
operate at the hours you operate; am I correct?
A And it also says there's a 41 liquor license, so
you're not only talking about taking hours away, you're talking about taking a big chunk -- the amount of money that's being taken away from a 47 to 41, plus taking away that amount of hours, would be cutting the business in
half, essentially.

Q So I am leading. Pay close attention. If the
CUP is revoked, will you continue to operate at the same hours that you are operating now for as long as you can? A No.

Q Okay. Well, will you close the restaurant?
A I don't think so. I'm actually pretty
resourceful, so I would probably figure out something. So I probably -- I don't know what I would do. I mean,
there's a ton of other avenues to go down, and those would be minor modifications for different things. But across the street, they have different entertainment stuff. We already have an entertainment license. We can add
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25 different entertainment things.

So, I mean, I would -- just like when COVID
happened, my answer would be the same. When COVID
happened, we said, "All right, we will figure this out and go as long as we can, and if it works, it works, and if it doesn't, hey, I put everything into it." I would do the same thing.

Q Okay. So sitting here right now, talking to me,
you believe you would be insolvent within 30 days if you had to operate at the hours of the 2012 CUP, referring
only to the specifics; however, if the CUP is revoked, you will be as resourceful as you can to try and survive; is that fair?
A 30 days is a little short. I think if it was 90,
that would start questioning it, yes. 30 is a little bit short, and -- I don't know. Right now, seasons are a
little weird, so -- yeah, that's a hard question to
answer.

Q Well, you might -- but you told Mr. Solomon that
you thought you would have to close within 30 days if you cut back the hours?
A The amount of change that we would have to do
would be excessive. I mean, the entire restaurant model would have to change completely, which, number one, it's just sad because it's been the same kind of restaurant for www.di esassociates.com
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25 40-some years. So we would have to completely change the restaurant model 100 percent because we don't make that much money off of middle-of-the-road Mexican food. So if we went to the 41 with those hours, then, yes, there would have to be massive changes.

Q Well, Mr. Puma testified that most of the money
was made in the late hours, midnight to 1:30, I think he said. Do you concur with that?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And CNC has a lease for the premises --
CNC Puma has a lease for the premises; correct?
A Correct.

Q But you have never read that lease. You know the
rent, but you have never read the lease; correct?
A Yes. We were supposed to be added to the lease
and sign it, but I have never gotten a copy of the lease.

I don't think Ryan and I have been added to the lease. I haven't read the entire lease. Norman did send me a
couple of excerpts from the lease recently, so that's all I have read of the lease.

Q And those excerpts had to do with notice you
should give the landlord if you get notices; right?
A Correct. Although, I will say, we were being
told -- and on the paperwork -- and I'm sure you guys can see -- it says that Zip Third was being notified, so I
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25 felt is was counterproductive for us to notify you of something -- or notify them of something they were already being notified on. But I also did not know that was in
the lease at that time.

Q Fair enough. Now, you got a lot of letters at
The Bank that were also addressed to Zip Third; am I
correct?
A Yes.

Q Or Mr. Solomon?
A They were addressed to Zip Third.

Q Okay. And you assume Zip Third was getting them
some other way; am I correct?
A Yes. Because I know I was getting it and
Brad Landon was getting a copy for me as agent of service, and then I was getting Craig's, but Craig was getting it.

So I assumed that everything was getting doubled here and also getting sent to the parties.

Q So you assumed there was no need to forward that
to the Zip Third; correct?
A Correct. I also assumed the City has to notify
the building owner, and that would be on the City to do.

MR. EDWARDS: All right. I have no further
questions at this moment.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
redirect?
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25 MR. CALLAWAY: Yes, your Honor.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q Ms. Lane, in your conversations and
communications with various people from the City regarding the operating hours and the 2008 CUP and the 2012 CUP, has anybody from the City ever told you if you file a minor modification to the 2012, requesting hours to 2:00 a.m., that they would grant it?
A No.

Q Has anybody from the City ever said that if you
file a minor modification to the 2012 CUP, that they would do anything to lower -- my apologies.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Go ahead,
Mr. Callaway, we can hear you.

BY MR. CALLAWAY:

Q -- that they would lower the fines and penalties?
A No.

MR. CALLAWAY: That's it, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any cross?
MR. EDWARDS: None from me, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you.

Ms. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: No, your Honor.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

In that case, Ms. Lane, you may be released.

Thank you for your time.

THE WITNESS: Thank you very much.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. Off
the record.
(There was a pause in the proceedings.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: We are
back on the record after the break.

Mr. Callaway, do you have further witnesses?
MR. CALLAWAY: Other than rebuttal, no. I'm
sorry, your Honor. As far as rebuttal, none planned as of this time.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Callaway.

Mr. Edwards, it's your opportunity to present
your evidence. Your first witness?
MR. EDWARDS: Norman Solomon.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Solomon, I see you on the screen. I'm going to place you under oath. Please raise your right hand.
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25 NORMAN SOLOMON,
called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn by the Administrative Law Judge, was examined and testified as follows:

THE WITNESS: I do, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. You
can put your hand down. And please state and spell your full name for me.

THE WITNESS: My name is Norman Solomon,
S-0-L-0-M-0-N.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you.

First name, N-O-R-M-A-N?
THE WITNESS: Thank you. Correct.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Edwards.

MR. EDWARDS: Thank you, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. EDWARDS:

Q Mr. Solomon, are you the manager of Zip Thirds
Investments, LLC?
A I am.

Q You know the property we are talking about here
occupied by The Bank, did Zip Third Investments -- and
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25 I'll just refer to it as Zip -- purchase that property? A It did.

Q And do you remember when?
A Yes, in 2016.

Q From whom did it make that purchase?
A I believe the actual was from the Estate of
Maureen Licata.

Q Now, Zip is an LLC; am I correct?
A That is correct.

Q Does it have any employees?
A It does not.

Q Okay. Have you ever told anyone it had nine
employees?
A I have not.

Q Okay. Where is your main office -- your main
office, if any, for Zip?
A The address for the office would be 3055 Wilshire
Boulevard in Los Angeles.

Q Now, COVID began mid -March 2020, have you worked
in that office since mid -March 2020?
A I have not. I probably have been to the office
just a few times since COVID started in mid -March.

Q When you say "a few," give us something more
precise. How many are a few, your best estimate?
A Maybe five. And then very carefully going in on
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25 the weekend, after hours, and maybe during office hours once or twice for short periods of time. And by short, I mean, maybe 15 minutes to half hour or an hour.

Q And do you have -- there's also a company called
Metro Resources; am I correct?
A Correct.

Q And what does it do?
A Metro Resources is a real estate full -service
brokerage company. With respect to Zip Third, it's the
property management company for Zip Third.

Q Is there a particular property manager regarding
the property called The Bank?
A That would be Dave Pinkerton.

Q And what is your age?
A Next week, I'll be 76.

Q And what is Mr. Pinkerton's age?
A I believe his age is approximately 68.

Q Since COVID, has he gone into the office?
A Very, very little. And, essentially, probably
like me, just a handful of times.

Q And now there's an issue in this case about
notice, so I want to get into your background and your
custom and practice. Could you give us some brief
background of your history of property ownership?
A I have been in real estate, development
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25 syndication, management for over 40 years now, and
probably owned well over 100 properties and been involved in, probably, close to 100 LLCs. And when I buy property, I bought it sometimes individually and sometimes with
partners and sometimes as the manager of the LLC.

Q Okay. We know you are the manager of Zip which
owns The Bank property?
A Uh-huh.

Q Do you have any other property ownership in
Temecula?
A Yes. I have owned or been involved in ownership
in nine different properties in Temecula. And, currently, we just sold a couple. Currently, we own five.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Hold on just a second.

Sergeant Hephner, I think your microphone is
unmuted. Do you mind muting if you can hear me?
Go ahead, Mr. Edwards. If we have more
interruptions, I'll try to deal with that.

MR. EDWARDS: Thank you, your Honor.

BY MR. EDWARDS:

Q How long have you or one of your entities owned
property in Temecula?
A For over 10 years.

Q Now, to your knowledge, excluding notices that
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25 the City says were sent to your office, has the City ever complained to you about any of your projects other than this property, The Bank?
A No, they haven't. And with respect to The Bank,
it would be regarding the CUP issue.

Q Okay. Has anyone informed you before March of
2022 of any problem at or near The Bank?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Who was the first person -- and I'm not
suggesting there's more than one. Who informed you of a problem at or near The Bank?
A The property manager, Dave Pinkerton.

Q When was that?
A That would have been in the summer of 2020.

Q Okay. And what problem did he tell you about?
A He said that we were having an issue that was
creating problems with the tenants and at the property
with the vagrants and homeless, you know, nuisance
problems with people sleeping over night, defecating at the property, leaving trash, and sometimes finding some needles, and that it was creating issues for the tenants.

We were concerned. So that was the nature of the issue.

Q And you have told us of other properties you own
in Temecula, are any of them near The Bank?
A Yes, three others are literally on the same block
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25 as The Bank. We have one that abuts just to the west, an office and retail building. And we have one that abuts
just to the north, and that's a retail building. And then just north of that, we have another one that abuts north.

So the properties that we own near The Bank make up the entire block of frontage on Front Street and then the
block to the west on Main Street.

Q The parking -- we have heard testimony about a
parking lot. Can you describe for us the location of the parking lot?
A There are actually two parking lots that are
attached to two of the three other buildings. The Bank
does not have any parking nor is there any that they have as part of their lease. So the building to the west,
which we call the clock tower building, has retail ground floor and offices on the second floor, and that has a
parking lot just to the north of the building that you
access through the middle of the building on the first
floor and can also be accessed to the north.

You can drive in or out from the north or from
the south of the building. And the second parking lot
would be in the second building to the north of The Bank, and that is a retail -- both retail building, and in front of it, there's a parking lot on Front Street. And that
parking lot can be accessed from the north side of the
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25 parking lot or the south side of the parking lot.

Q Any member of the public can park there in either
of these lots?
A Yes. The lots are, obviously, for the use of the
tenants and their customers and guests. But they are
open, and often people park in there that are not
customers or tenants of those buildings.

Q Now, you heard from Mr. Pinkerton about a problem
with these parking lots, or parking lot, did you do
anything in response?
A Yes, we did. Yes. I would hope my answer would
be "of course." The answer is yes, we did. The first
thing we did is called the Sheriff, and we spoke with the Sheriff. And we were told that they would do their best, but they had insufficient resources, and this was not
their highest priority.

Q Did you take a next step?
A Yes, yes.

Q What step was that?
A We -- the first thing we did was to hire a
security guard patrol while we were investigating. And
very quickly thereafter, installed a security camera
system for the buildings.

Q Okay. Now, does this system include a loud
speaker?
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25 A So what the system includes -- the answer is yes.

What the system includes is 14 cameras, plus a strobe
light, plus a loud speaker with a talk -down component so that -- as Amanda said, it was used on Amanda once when she was there.

So if something or somebody that is inappropriate
is entering onto the property, that there will be able to talk down to somebody saying, "You're trespassing. You
must leave the property immediately or the police will be called," and what we found is, and what has happened is, that in 90-plus -- whatever, 95 or 98 percent of the
cases, the people leave either immediately or almost
immediately from the premises. And if not, then the
police are called and the security patrol company guard is called also.

Q Does the company dispatch people to the site?
A Yes, yes.

Q Okay. Now, you learned of this activity in the
parking lots when?
A This would have been probably -- you know,
probably, I first learned in summer or early summer, maybe June or July. The security system and cameras and the
monitoring was installed in June or July of 2020, so we probably learned about it right about then or a little
before.
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25 Q Okay. And this was at -- I assume no one donated
this system?
A That would have been nice, but we couldn't find a
grant for it. We had to pay for it ourselves.

Q And what was the cost?
A It was just over $20,000.00. I believe it was
$20,235.00, plus the ongoing monthly monitoring cost for the monitoring and patrol.

Q Now, the City has put into evidence a number of
penalty letters and administrative citations. I mentioned March of 2022. Do you have any knowledge of when your
office first started to receive anything from the City
regarding the CUPS, Conditional Use Permits?
A Me or the office?
Q Well, your current knowledge, today, after some
investigation?
A My knowledge, today, is March of 2022.

Q Okay. And how did you obtain that knowledge?
A When I first found out about the Conditional Use
Permit Revocation, I pretty quickly thereafter called my office. I was pretty sad to learn of it. And asked if
they knew anything or heard anything of it, and I was told that they did.

So I asked them to put everything that we had
together, make sure that when I came down and pulled the www.di" esassociates.com
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25 file that there wasn't anything anywhere else, that they gathered it all together and it was in the file. So
that's how I learned. In asking and looking through the file, the first thing we got -- the first thing we had and the first thing we had in the file was early March, a
violation which has been referred to as the civil penalty violations letters from March -- I can't remember if it's March 2nd and 3rd or March 3rd and 4th. Whatever that
Friday and Saturday is of 2022.

And the envelope that it arrived in was
postmarked March 7th, so we would have probably got it in the office whatever time you think after a postmarked
March 7th letter would come. And looking through the file and, you know, rechecking, we had eight envelopes starting postmarked March 7th of 2022. Each envelope had two
violations, a violation from Friday and Saturday of that weekend. So we had 16 violations.

Now, subsequent to that, we have received other
violations, but at the time I came in, which would have been in, probably, July -- July 12th or 13th, that kind of time frame, of 2022 -- to the office to look, we only had 16 violation letters which were contained in eight
envelopes starting in March of 2022.

Q Now, you how did you learn that there was the
possibility of Conditional Use Permit Revocation?
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25 A I received a phone call from Jennifer Petrusis.

Q And when was that phone call?
A That was on the Fourth of July weekend on Friday
evening after 5:00.

Q And did you ignore --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I think we
might have another microphone issue. If you are not
speaking, if you don't mind muting your microphone,
please.

Go ahead, Mr. Edwards.

MR. EDWARDS: Yes.

BY MR. EDWARDS:

Q Now, you have said you just learned of the
revocation issue after 5:00 o'clock on Friday, July 1st.

Did you shrug your shoulders and say, "There's nothing to worry about"?
A No. I got a call from my office, I think it was
5:05 on Friday afternoon, July 1st, and it was our
bookkeeper who said he received a call from the City
Attorney in Temecula and she said it was important and to please call her back, so I said, "Thank you." I got the number from him, and I called her right back.

I left a message. By the time I said, "Are you
sure that's who called," because I was quite surprised, and he said "Yes." And so by the time I talked to him and www.di" . lnesassociates.com
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25 took down the number and called her, it was 5:15. I left a message at 5:15. I called within 10 minutes, and she
called me back at 5:30 on that Friday, July 1st.

Q Did you speak to her at that time?
A Yes.

Q What did she say?
A She said that -- well, what she first said was,
"Are you the agent for service of process for Zip Third Investments, LLC?" But I could be wrong if she added the IT LLC . IT
Q And did she say more than that?
A Well, I answered the question, and I said, "Yes,
I am. And I'm also the manager for Zip Third
Investments."
Q And did she tell you the purpose of her call?
A Yes. She told me that the City was moving to
revoke the Conditional Use Permit for 28645 Old Town Front Street for The Bank.

Q Did you say anything in response?
A Yes, I did. Well, I was stunned. I had no -- I
didn't, you know -- it took me a minute to kind of, you know, compose myself because I didn't understand. I think I probably asked her, "I don't know anything about this.

What's going on? We have no notice -- nothing of this." She might have responded and said something.
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25 And then I said, "Well, the Conditional Use
Permits -- we are the owners of the property. The
Conditional Use Permit runs with the land. We're the ones that hold it. And I understand that you are telling
me," -- she was telling me about violations and there were violations that they had, staying open beyond what their CUP allowed, and they were making noise, et cetera. So I began reiterating that I had no information about it, I didn't know anything about it, and asked her if she could send me some information.

And, by the way, in that same conversation, I
said, "We are going to need time to investigate this,"
because she was telling me there was going to be a
hearing. And I said, "I don't know anything about it. I need time to investigate this and work with the City to see if we can resolve this. That's what I've always done is work with the City, and we will need some time." So
that was pretty much the nature of that call.

Q Did she say anything about sending you notices
and when she would have expected you to receive them?
A Yes. She said that the notices had been sent to
the address of The Bank for the first year, and that
starting, you know, in March, they were then sent to the office on Wilshire Boulevard.

Q And did she make any mention of an August 2021
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25 letter at your office?
A No, definitely not.

Q And until you saw that exhibit, had you ever seen
that letter before?
A When you say "that exhibit," do you mean the
letter from August from Tom Cole?
Q Yes. 2021.

A No, I had never seen it or heard it from anybody
until just before this.

Q Now, Mr. Watson testified that he did not
remember meeting with you. Had you met with Mr. Watson
before hearing from Ms. Petrusis?
A You know, I have to do something. There is
someone that's been knocking at the front door. Just give me one minute.

MR. EDWARDS: We might have Mr. Fernandez now.

Mr. Fernandez, can you hear me? He's probably on
mute.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I see his
name.

MR. EDWARDS: Okay. Mr. Fernandez?
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: He may be
there or not.

MR. EDWARDS: Okay. He gave me his cell phone.

May I have permission to call?
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Off the
record.
(There was a pause in the proceedings.)
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Back on
the record after the brief break.

Mr. Edwards, I understand we are going to
interrupt the testimony of Mr. Solomon quickly because we have another witness who has a limited time frame. So I'm assuming you would like to call Mr. Fernandez as a
witness; correct?
MR. EDWARDS: Yes, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Fernandez, are you there?
MR. FERNANDEZ: I am.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

I'm going to place you under oath. I can't see you, but I can hear you. So could you please raise your right hand for me and let me know when you have done so?
MR. FERNANDEZ: It's raised.

LAZARO FERNANDEZ,
called as a witness, and having been first duly sworn by the Administrative Law Judge, was examined and testified as follows:
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25 THE WITNESS: I do.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. You
can put your hand down. Please state and spell your full name.

THE WITNESS: Lazaro, L-A-Z-A-R-O, Fernandez
F-E-R-N-A-N-D-E-Z.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS:

Mr. Edwards.

MR. EDWARDS: Thank you, your Honor.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. EDWARDS:

Q Good afternoon, sir.

A Good afternoon.

Q What is your occupation?
A I am an attorney.

Q Do you have a specialty?
A I do. My concentration is bankruptcy law.

Q Okay. And when you passed the BAR, did you work
as a law clerk to a bankruptcy judge?
A Yes, I did. It was a one-year position.

Q And when was that?
A That was approximately July 1988 to July 1989.

Q And have you been in private practice thereafter?
A Yes.
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25 Q And during that time, is it fair to say that you
have handled hundreds of bankruptcy cases?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Did you provide some services to Zip Third
Investments, LLC?
A Yes, I did.

Q When?
A Approximately August 2022.

Q What were the services?
A The services provided were the drafting and
filing of a motion to convert the CNC Puma Corporation
case from Chapter 11 to Chapter 7.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Hold on a
second. I'm having some difficulty hearing you. So am I understanding you were hired to convert the CNC Puma
Corporation, LLC from what to what?
THE WITNESS: Chapter 11 to Chapter 7.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Thank you.

THE WITNESS: I also filed a draft motion --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: You filed
a what motion?
THE WITNESS: Draft relief from the automatic
stay motion.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.
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25 BY MR. EDWARDS:

Q You filed that with the court; correct?
A Yes.

Q And did you appear in court regarding your
motions?
A Yes, I appeared in person before bankruptcy
judge, Wayne Johnson, in Riverside California on both
motions.

Q Okay. And in order to get a hearing date in
August, did you have to make a motion?
A Yes. I filed two applications for shortened time
for hearings, which were reviewed and granted by the
bankruptcy court.

Q Now, with your understanding of bankruptcy law,
could Zip Third had filed an unlawful detainer while the debtor, CNC Puma, was in bankruptcy?
MR. CALLAWAY: Objection, your Honor, as to this
line of questioning, and based on relevance to the action.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Go ahead,
Mr. Edwards.

MR. EDWARDS: It relates to prompt action upon
notice. The issue raised by both people -- both sides
were noticed, including us.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: I'm going
overrule the objection.
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25 Go ahead, Mr. Edwards.

MR. EDWARDS: Okay.

BY MR. EDWARDS:

Q You appeared in court. What was the result -- by
the way, I don't know if I got an answer. Could they have filed an unlawful detainer while the debtor was in
bankruptcy?
A No.

Q Okay. And you've told us you appeared in court.

There was a hearing; correct?
A Yes, there was.

Q Was an order issued after the hearing?
A Yes, there was.

Q What was the order?
A The order of the court was that rather than
converting the case to Chapter 7, decided to dismiss
Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The bankruptcy case, having been dismissed, rendered a relief from stay motion moved per the order of the court.

Q Okay. So it was your understanding after the
dismissal of the bankruptcy, the automatic stay no longer existed; am I correct?
A That is correct, yes.

Q Okay. Now, the work that you did -- and I may
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25 And that's Exhibit E 1-4. The stamps are 769-811.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Mr. Edwards, I will need some help on that.

MR. EDWARDS: Ms. Martyn, can explain that better
than I can.

MS. MARTYN: If you don't mind, your Honor, you
will recall when you marked the exhibits, we grouped the bankruptcy --
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Give me a
Bates number on CaseLines, and I'll go right there.

MS. MARTYN: PP,
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: No, it's B
something.

MS. MARTYN: The Bates number is 769 through 811.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Hold on
one second.

MS. MARTYN: And it's listed as Respondent's
Exhibit E 1 through 4, as Mr. Edwards indicated, and then there's one additional one. But let's do this one first.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Hold on a minute here. So it's Bates 769 through
something.

MS. MARTYN: 811.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. We
have two, 769 through 811, that's Exhibit PP.
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25 MS. MARTYN: Yes, and Exhibit HHH, which is 1039
through 1041, which is the dismissal that Mr. Fernandez just referred to.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Thank you.

Which one are we looking at first, Mr. Edwards?
MR. EDWARDS: 769-811.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Exhibit
PP?
MR. EDWARDS: Yes.

BY MR. EDWARDS:

Q Okay. Mr. Fernandez, you have seen that exhibit;
correct?
A I have.

Q And are the documents within those numbers true
and correct copies of your filings in the bankruptcy
court?
A Yes, they are.

Q And now regarding Exhibit HHH, page numbers 1039
to 1041, which purports to be the dismissal order, you
have seen that as well; am I correct?
A Yes, I have.

Q And is it a true and correct copy of the
dismissal order you got through PACER?
A Yes, it is.
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25 MR. EDWARDS: Your Honor, I would ask that those
exhibits be received.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Any
objections?
Hearing none, both Exhibits PP and HHH are
admitted.
(Exhibits PP and HHH were received in evidence.)
MR. EDWARDS: Your Honor, I have nothing further
for Mr. Fernandez.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Any cross-examination, Ms. Petrusis?
MS. PETRUSIS: Yes, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. PETRUSIS:

Q Mr. Fernandez, when were you retained to provide
services for Zip Third?
A Mr. Edwards sent me an e-mail the very last week
of July. I was on a business trip in Florida. I'm also
licensed to practice in Florida. I was on business in
Florida when I received the e-mail.

Q And is that July of this year?
A Yes.

Q Were you retained before that for Zip Third?
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25 A No, I was retained after this communication with
him.

Q So you have only be retained once by Zip Third;
correct?
A Correct.

Q And that was sometime during the last week of
July 2022?
A Correct.

MS. PETRUSIS: Thank you. No further questions.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Any cross-examination, Mr. Callaway?
MR. CALLAWAY: No, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

In that case, any redirect, Mr. Edwards?
MR. EDWARDS: None.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Thank you very much for your time, Mr. Fernandez. You may be released.

THE WITNESS: Thank you. I appreciate it.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

In that case, hold on a second. Let me get myself
together here.

Mr. Solomon, are you still there?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I am here, your Honor. Thank
you for allowing us to do that.
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25 ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay.

Mr. Edwards, I assume you want to resume with Mr. Solomon; correct?
MR. EDWARDS: With your permission.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: All right.

Hold on just a second, Mr. Solomon. You understand you
are still under oath the tell the truth?
THE WITNESS: I do, your Honor.

ADMINISTRATIVE LAW JUDGE NYE-PERKINS: Okay. All
right.

Temecula City CouncilApril 25, 2023

Temecula City Council
April 25, 2023